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A Norfolk L-M20
09-21-2016, 04:43 PM
I'm curious to know people's experiences of finding English roots for their American ancestors.


When did they arrive?
What was their occupation / social background?
What was their denomination?
Which part of England did their family originate from?


What sparks my curiosity as an Englishman, is that although I've carried out two 23andMe tests (myself and a parent), an FTDNA Family Finder test, GEDMATCH files, a FTDNA Y111 test, and an FTDNA Big Y (followed by additional Yfull and Full Genomes analysis), my DNA testing with regards to Genetic Genealogy, has been a dismal failure. Other than very distant Y cousins, I have not connected trees with one DNA cousin. It has added 0 named ancestors to my genealogy. I enjoy tracing the haplogroups for the longer story, but no close matches. I expected to have lots of second to sixth cousins and on wards in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. England has been such a massive exporter of DNA across the World over the past several centuries. Autosomal DNA tests for ancestry fail to identify English as a definitive group - and our results tend to blur into other British, North-West European, Western European, Irish, and even Southern European groups, regardless of the commercial service. However, I understood that some of the receiving nation-states of English DNA, particularly the USA, were some of the most avid DNA testers. So where are my matches?

When I do contact my nearest American matches, whether on 23andMe, GEDMATCH, or FTDNA, we never find a common connection. Very often, their recorded ancestors with English surnames have been in the Americas since the 1750s or earlier. I don't find those connections.

My recorded ancestors were all English, predominantly from the County of Norfolk. One aspect that I suspect that could be a factor was their social status. My ancestors were very much rural working class. Relatively few named trades, and even then, usually minor trades, often combined with labouring. During C18 and C19, the men were mainly East Anglian Agricultural labourers. Geographic mobility of my ancestors was also quite limited. On my mother's side, I have dozens of direct ancestors, bunched up near to the River Yare in the east of Norfolk going back 360 years on record. Second cousins marrying second cousins. My suspicion would be that they descended predominantly from the rural peasantry (including the freemen) of those parishes bway back into the Medieval. But I could be wrong.

I've been researching the Puritans today, and I saw a number of references to many of them being from Eastern England, including from Norfolk. However, these references also clearly suggest that they were better educated, petit bourgeoisie, middle classes, tradesmen, and crafts people - and that only a small percentage were agricultural. I'm also interested in how the DNA of these classes of people are often more admixed and mobile than that of surrounding agricultural populations. For example, here in Norfolk, substantial numbers of religious refugees arrived here during C16, from what are now the Netherlands, Belgium, and France. This immigration was often encouraged, in order to bring new skills, technologies, and crafts into urban and trade centres such as Norwich. A few thoughts there.

I'm also aware that many, many English emigrated to North America and elsewhere not as Puritans, but as indentured servants (although again, I suspect that these were mainly trades and crafts people from urban and semi urban centres), adventurers, Quakers, and merchants. I'm aware that English migration continued in waves throughout the later C17, and through the C18, C19, and C20. In later migrations, many migrants may have been from wider backgrounds, including from labouring backgrounds from around England.

I'd love to hear from other people's genealogical and historical research on this matter. Specifically English please. The Irish, and Scottish were often different cases. Where are my genetic genealogy matches from North America? How different (genetic drift?) is the DNA of Anglo-Americans to mine? Particularly as most commercial DNA test companies use English references that include Anglo-Americans.

Thanks in advance.

A Norfolk L-M20
09-21-2016, 05:29 PM
delete

cvolt
09-21-2016, 05:30 PM
I know very little about my English roots. I have one grandma who is allegedly 100% English, family left Liverpool in the 1700's I think. I have a couple other English ancestors scattered in my other lines too. I have a great great grandma who left England after agreeing to marry a foreign man who was on his way to America. She worked as a second cook for a rich family in London. Her family lived in Chertsey, and she came to America around the 1890's.

Dewsloth
09-21-2016, 06:10 PM
I've got a bunch for you. When I get a chance I'll post some. FTDNA's crummy tree won't let me cut&paste so it will take some time.

swid
09-21-2016, 06:30 PM
1/4 of my ancestry is pre-1750 colonial American, and any sort of documentation beyond their names becomes hard to find at that point, so I'm effectively reduced to context clues (given names and surnames, colony settled in, etc.) for many of them as to the likely point of origin in the British Isles, their religious denomination, and social class.

On a more general note, you may be interested in reading Albion's Seed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion%27s_Seed), as it provides a extensive discussion as to how the regional differences in source populations from Britain & Ireland manifested themselves from the earliest days of American settlement.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-21-2016, 08:07 PM
Well not quite English, but their father was from Herefordshire. :)
My grandfather and his brother were stonemasons, my grandfather was a monumental mason (their father was a farmer). my grandfather stayed in Wales but his brother emigrated to America (New England area) , I would guess in the early 1900's. Quite a few went from this area during the 1800's.
I'm still in touch with with my relatives their. Recently I found out that my grandfather's brother was supposedly in the Freemasons, but I don't know if my own grandfather was. Strangely enough in recent generations there has been a shortage of sons in our Howells line - the children were mostly daughters. I'm the last one descended from my grandfather and when I shuffle off, that's it. My second cousins in America also mostly had daughters although one had one son. The family in America have made a great success of it.

Lirio100
09-21-2016, 08:34 PM
I have one family from Horsham parish, I think west Sussex. That family came in 1855, the paper trail was known but I have since found a fourth cousin match in England with the correct surname from that area, although we have not yet documented the exact connection. My great grandfather came to the US about 1890; he was born in northern Staffordshire and I have the paper trail. I have had no genetic matches at less than 5 GD distance for him and none from FF, very frustrating since he's the originator of the Y-DNA line. I have one colonial line in my tree that is largely undocumented, and once again Murphy's Law--that's the source of my mtDNA line. I do have a good fourth cousin match through that line (holds at 23andme, FTDNA and dna.land) but the American tester and I have not yet found the connection. Given what I do know about that line I'm pretty sure it's UK and pre-1800, but documentation is spotty and I've had no UK matches for this line.

Baltimore1937
09-21-2016, 10:24 PM
Try these projects at FTDNA:

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/british-isles/about

https://www.familytreedna.com/project-join-request.aspx?group=East_Anglia&projecttype=DG

Dewsloth
09-21-2016, 10:31 PM
I have one colonial line in my tree that is largely undocumented, and once again Murphy's Law--that's the source of my mtDNA line.

I feel your pain: I have people on my dad's side plotted out to the 1500s and 1600s, but my written sources don't even agree on my maternal great-grandmother's mother's name.
When I was a kid, I could have just asked her :headslap:

Lirio100
09-21-2016, 10:35 PM
Try these projects at FTDNA:

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/british-isles/about

https://www.familytreedna.com/project-join-request.aspx?group=East_Anglia&projecttype=DG

I do belong to the British Isles group and I looked at the East Anglia group, they don't include Sussex, unfortunately. I suspect I'll do better as the size of UK participants grows.

Webb
09-21-2016, 10:44 PM
In my experience the British settlers kept very little records. My German ancestors from Loudoun County, Virginia kept excellent church records. But I suspect my German ancestors were gentleman farmers while my father's British ancestors kept pushing west, so I assume they had no wealth, hence no family records of any kind.

Baltimore1937
09-21-2016, 10:56 PM
Quakers kept good records. I have a Quaker branch that is well documented back to colonial times. But mostly I just copied the research of others (Quakers) at Ancestry. I've gotten quite a few DNA matches at Ancestry for people connected to this branch. And not to forget that Daniel Boone is also in this branch (first cousin six times removed).

Lirio100
09-21-2016, 11:18 PM
In my experience the British settlers kept very little records. My German ancestors from Loudoun County, Virginia kept excellent church records. But I suspect my German ancestors were gentleman farmers while my father's British ancestors kept pushing west, so I assume they had no wealth, hence no family records of any kind.

Might be some of both. The English family that came in 1855 were tenant farmers, but they had enough money to send oldest son ahead to check out farmland, then had enough money to bring a family of 12 over and buy the farm outright. I even have a copy of their ship ticket. The German branches tended to bring families and stay in one place for awhile, and church records are pretty complete. Some other ancestors, though, came alone and didn't seem particularly interested in keeping records nor even in staying in contact with family back home.

Celt_??
09-22-2016, 01:53 AM
My oldest know ancestor, Thomas Mylam (Milam), is first found in a 1738 Orange County, VA, Court Order. I have read 1000s of microfilm pages of Orange County and subsequently Bedford County, VA, Court Records from 1728 through 1793. And it is amazing how much one can learn. But it takes hundreds of hours and one CANNOT rely on the Indexes to such court records because they are grossly incomplete regarding the common man, the planters. The Gentry class are of course well noted. I have found court records not only for Thomas but also for five his sons.

Most folks aren't willing, or don't have the time, to undertake such time consuming research. But in retirement, it is a worthwhile endeavor for posterity. I now have 300+ pages on my well documented and referenced website, many with images of court records:

www.milaminvirginia.com (http://www.milaminvirginia.com)

The Library of Virginia in Richmond, VA, has microfilm records for most counties - of course some county's records were destroyed by accidental fire or war. At the Library's Record's Center on Williamsburg Road, one can actually examine county records which have not yet been microfilmed. Yes touch, hold in one's hands and photograph original records which are 250+ years old like this contract signed by Thomas Millim (Milam) in 1761 with his mark "TM".

11770

There are records for most folks in Virginia court records because Court Orders; Chancery Court Records; Land Grants, Patents, Warrants, Deeds and Land Surveys; Wills and Estate Appraisals; Road Orders and Road Petitions; signers of the Oath of Affirmation (1777) etc., etc. were maintained. But it is pains-taking work to read through these records. Most visitors to Ancestory.com etc. are only doing "copy and paste" and have never searched a microfilm court record or held an original document in their hands.

BTW, microfilmed county records are available via inter-library loan and most libraries have microfilm "readers". More and more records are online at the Library here: http://www.lva.virginia.gov/ . If you search by county, you will find a list of microfilm volumes available. And you may speak with Archivists: (804) 692-3888 You may Private Message me with questions too.

geebee
09-22-2016, 05:04 AM
For those Americans whose immigrant ancestors all arrived during the colonial period, English ancestors aren't necessarily the easiest to trace. For one thing, they were simply moving from one part of the realm to another. Therefore, they don't appear in documents such as "oaths of allegiance".

In addition, while fairly good records were kept in some places, that wasn't always true in other places. Many people find that they can only go back a few generations before ancestors simply seem to have materialized out of nowhere.

What's more, if you find surnames that clearly aren't British, it's fairly likely that the folks who brought the names weren't British. The reverse cannot be assumed. For example, my mother's maiden name was Weaver. But the ancestors who brought the surname over called Weber, not Weaver.

(On the other hand, I do think my mother's Brooks and Mills families actually were British. I don't know whether they were English. My father's Keith and Gregg families were Scottish and Scots-Irish.)

Dewsloth
09-22-2016, 06:36 AM
What's more, if you find surnames that clearly aren't British, it's fairly likely that the folks who brought the names weren't British. The reverse cannot be assumed. For example, my mother's maiden name was Weaver. But the ancestors who brought the surname over called Weber, not Weaver.


Just to confuse things, I have colonial English ancestors with surnames like Thrall and Gunn. :)

geebee
09-22-2016, 10:44 AM
Believe it or not, I was able to find both surnames in Ancestry's database:

Thrall Name Meaning
English: status name from Old English ■r?l ‘thrall’, ‘serf’ (from Old Norse ■rŠll).

Gunn Name Meaning
Scottish: name of a clan associated with Caithness, derived from the Old Norse personal name Gunnr (or the feminine form Gunne), a short form of any of various compound names with the first element gunn ‘battle’. Scottish: sometimes an Anglicized form of Gaelic Mac Gille Dhuinn ‘son of the servant of the brown one’ (see Dunn). (According to Woulfe a name of the same form also existed in Sligo, Ireland.) English: metonymic occupational name for someone who operated a siege engine or cannon, perhaps also a nickname for a forceful person, from Middle English gunne, gonne ‘ballista’, ‘cannon’, ‘gun’. The term originated as a humorous application of the Scandinavian female personal name Gunne or Gunnhildr.

EDIT: It's possible for me to find my own surname, as well. But not directly. I have to first change the name back into a German form, and then shift it into its most common variation. So Bookhammer -> Buchhammer -> Buchheim.

Buchheim Name Meaning
German: habitational name from any of numerous places called Buchheim or Puchheim, literally ‘beech settlement’.

Gray Fox
09-22-2016, 01:19 PM
I'm curious to know people's experiences of finding English roots for their American ancestors.


When did they arrive?
What was their occupation / social background?
What was their denomination?
Which part of England did their family originate from?


What sparks my curiosity as an Englishman, is that although I've carried out two 23andMe tests (myself and a parent), an FTDNA Family Finder test, GEDMATCH files, a FTDNA Y111 test, and an FTDNA Big Y (followed by additional Yfull and Full Genomes analysis), my DNA testing with regards to Genetic Genealogy, has been a dismal failure. Other than very distant Y cousins, I have not connected trees with one DNA cousin. It has added 0 named ancestors to my genealogy. I enjoy tracing the haplogroups for the longer story, but no close matches. I expected to have lots of second to sixth cousins and on wards in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. England has been such a massive exporter of DNA across the World over the past several centuries. Autosomal DNA tests for ancestry fail to identify English as a definitive group - and our results tend to blur into other British, North-West European, Western European, Irish, and even Southern European groups, regardless of the commercial service. However, I understood that some of the receiving nation-states of English DNA, particularly the USA, were some of the most avid DNA testers. So where are my matches?

When I do contact my nearest American matches, whether on 23andMe, GEDMATCH, or FTDNA, we never find a common connection. Very often, their recorded ancestors with English surnames have been in the Americas since the 1750s or earlier. I don't find those connections.

My recorded ancestors were all English, predominantly from the County of Norfolk. One aspect that I suspect that could be a factor was their social status. My ancestors were very much rural working class. Relatively few named trades, and even then, usually minor trades, often combined with labouring. During C18 and C19, the men were mainly East Anglian Agricultural labourers. Geographic mobility of my ancestors was also quite limited. On my mother's side, I have dozens of direct ancestors, bunched up near to the River Yare in the east of Norfolk going back 360 years on record. Second cousins marrying second cousins. My suspicion would be that they descended predominantly from the rural peasantry (including the freemen) of those parishes bway back into the Medieval. But I could be wrong.

I've been researching the Puritans today, and I saw a number of references to many of them being from Eastern England, including from Norfolk. However, these references also clearly suggest that they were better educated, petit bourgeoisie, middle classes, tradesmen, and crafts people - and that only a small percentage were agricultural. I'm also interested in how the DNA of these classes of people are often more admixed and mobile than that of surrounding agricultural populations. For example, here in Norfolk, substantial numbers of religious refugees arrived here during C16, from what are now the Netherlands, Belgium, and France. This immigration was often encouraged, in order to bring new skills, technologies, and crafts into urban and trade centres such as Norwich. A few thoughts there.

I'm also aware that many, many English emigrated to North America and elsewhere not as Puritans, but as indentured servants (although again, I suspect that these were mainly trades and crafts people from urban and semi urban centres), adventurers, Quakers, and merchants. I'm aware that English migration continued in waves throughout the later C17, and through the C18, C19, and C20. In later migrations, many migrants may have been from wider backgrounds, including from labouring backgrounds from around England.

I'd love to hear from other people's genealogical and historical research on this matter. Specifically English please. The Irish, and Scottish were often different cases. Where are my genetic genealogy matches from North America? How different (genetic drift?) is the DNA of Anglo-Americans to mine? Particularly as most commercial DNA test companies use English references that include Anglo-Americans.

Thanks in advance.

A good deal of my ancestry is English, but I've researched my y-line (Devon) the most. From the best I can tell we descend from the Isack/Isaac family of Boreat in Atherington, Devonshire. It seems the family were granted the estate from the Hamlin family (Whom we are connected to) who were originally granted the estate by a Ralph de Wellington in the 14th century. Due to my Y-Dna haplo (Common in Western France/Northern Spain) I feel we likely arrived during William's arrival or shortly thereafter. According to cousin's who remained in Devon, we were granted land and our surname for participating in the Crusades. There also appears to have been an Isaac listed as a manorial servant/knight? in the Domesday for an unspecified locale in Devon.. But I won't bore you with my surname's backstory, just wanted to establish the location from which we (probably) hail.

At any rate, it seems that from I've been able to piece together, we were shipped to Northern Ireland likely via Cromwell. It's not a well known fact, but there were indeed a few families from Devonshire selected to settle/plant there. There was an Isaacke listed as one of the Cromwellian adventurers for land in Northern Ireland as well as genealogical records of the Isaack family of Boreat being connected to the Cromwell's. So, that is my reasoning for that. Apparently, according to a distant family member here in the states, we kept in contact with the Isaac's who remained in Northern Eire for a spell. County Antrim seems to be where they ended up, as the letters were supposedly from there. I've not physically seen these myself, so they may largely be conjecture based..

From County Antrim? we arrived to the colonies in the early 1700's, perhaps earlier. At the moment, the earliest confirmed record is dated to a dispute between lord Fairfax and Jost Hite in Colonial Virginia (Old Orange County, specifically) in which we were listed as tenants. We're on record as having purchased land roughly around 1730 from a fellow by the name of Guilder, who I believe, originally purchased the land from Fairfax. We've been moving around and multiplying ever since. Mostly in the states of North Carolina, Kentucky and Texas.. Those seem to be the biggest strongholds. We also adopted numerous customs and attitudes from our mixing/associating with the Scots-Irish, so it was especially difficult to discern our English background; Which, truth be told, was only confirmed when we had a y-DNA match with a fellow whose Great, Great Grandfather immigrated stateside from Whitestone, Devon in the 1860's.

There is a pretty good chance that we arrived as indentured servants, because of a complete lack of a legitimate paper trail from our home county to the Colonies. If I didn't have a DNA match with person who has fairly recent roots to Devon, I'd still be lost. We appeared suddenly on the map and try as I might, I can't find any early records stateside.

Earliest records seem to suggest that my Isaac's were Blacksmiths/Distillers/Farmers. Denomination seems to have been reformed protestant for the most part.. Perhaps Episcopalian at the beginning.

We've been chameleons for quite some time.. Pretty much the mold for which American's are known for today (mixed, varied customs) before we ever set foot on these shores :)

Dewsloth
09-22-2016, 03:44 PM
Believe it or not, I was able to find both surnames in Ancestry's database:

Thrall Name Meaning
English: status name from Old English ■r?l ‘thrall’, ‘serf’ (from Old Norse ■rŠll).

Gunn Name Meaning
Scottish: name of a clan associated with Caithness, derived from the Old Norse personal name Gunnr (or the feminine form Gunne), a short form of any of various compound names with the first element gunn ‘battle’. Scottish: sometimes an Anglicized form of Gaelic Mac Gille Dhuinn ‘son of the servant of the brown one’ (see Dunn). (According to Woulfe a name of the same form also existed in Sligo, Ireland.) English: metonymic occupational name for someone who operated a siege engine or cannon, perhaps also a nickname for a forceful person, from Middle English gunne, gonne ‘ballista’, ‘cannon’, ‘gun’. The term originated as a humorous application of the Scandinavian female personal name Gunne or Gunnhildr.

Exactly. So some of my British ancestors may have Norse tourists as their own ancestors.

So here goes for first generations of my ancestors to arrive in the colonies:

Usher, possibly Northumberland? England, b. 1712
Jane Ann Perry, Northumberland b. 1717 (Jane was the daughter of an English nobleman and apparently eloped to Virginia with Edward Usher. They had 4 daughters but one died in infancy.)

Holmes, Beverly, Yorkshire, England, b. bef 1613
Waterbury, Sudbury, Middlesex, England b. 1621
Taylor, Beverly, Yorkshire, England b. 1620?
Parcett, Sudbury, Suffolk, England b. 1595
Potter, England b.1610 (sailed from England on 15 April 1635 on the ship “Increase,” bound for the New World)
Mead, Watford, Hertfordshire, England b. 1592? (supposedly came over on the "Elizabeth" in 1635, but ship not confirmed)
Finch, Essex?, England 1595
Hoyt (Hait), West Hatch, Somersetshire, England b. 1589

Case, Aylesham, Gravesend, Kent, England b. 1616 (this birthplace info is suspect)
Spencer, baptized on October 11, 1601, in Stotfold, Bedfordshire, England.

Phelps, Crewkerne, Somerset, England b. 1628
Newton, Colyton, Devonshire, England 1610
Wilcoxson, Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England b. 1601
Birdseye, England b. 1611

Thrall, Sandridge, Herfordshire, England b. 1605
Gunn, Devon? c. 1605 (apparently from the same Norse line origin as the Scottish clan mentioned above, but arriving separately in the south of Britain; possible passenger on the ship "Mary and John," which departed from Plymouth bound for New England in 1630.)
Cook, Yorkshire or London? b.1730 (Valentine Cook's origins are the stuff of many publications, but he may have come over as an indentured servant)

Mosher, Cucklington, Somerset, England b. 1596
Maxson, possibly Manchester England c. 1600

Taber, Somerset, England 1604 - Carpenter
Masters, Tiverton, Devon, England c. 1605
Cooke, England b. 1583 ("Mayflower" passenger, his son, also "Mayflower" passenger, was born in Leiden)
Mahieu (le Mahieu), Canterbury, Kent, England b. 1582 (Cooke's wife was a French Walloon whose parents had initially fled to Canterbury, England; she left for Leiden sometime before 1603; came over on the "Anne")
Warren, Hertford? England ("Mayflower" passenger)
Walker*, Baldock, Herfordshire, England b. 1583 (Warren's wife; came over in 1623 on the ship "Anne" with daughters Abigail, Anne, Elizabeth, Mary and Sarah*)

Dixon, Scotland b. 1730
Miller, "North Ireland, Cornack Fergus [sic]" b. 1731

Edit: Here's another one of grandma's ancestors:
Deuel (Davol, daVol, Devil, Deuell), Spalding, Lincolnshire, England b. 1615 - Bailiff of Rehoboth RI

*My dad is walking around with their mtDNA.

Cinnamon orange
09-22-2016, 07:17 PM
My mothers maternal side was three quarters English and one quarter Welsh, I was told.

I recently discovered a Scots line in among the English side as well as a Welsh and a Wallace as surnames, so assume some ancient Britons are hidden in among the English as well.
The side with the interlopers is from Tyneside/county Durham. They immigrated to work in the northeastern PA coal fields. Some were miners in the UK but that seems more recent, as when I go back a few generations prior to migration I find other occupations, farmer, blacksmith, Ship wright etc This line came in the 1870's.

I have another line that came from South Yorkshire (Sheffield area). A part of that migrated from Nottinghamshire to South Yorkshire and were farmers. This line migrated in 1910 to northeastern PA. Occupation laborer. I find in the line, farmers, a tailor, metal workers, miners.

Edit the South Yorkshire ones were Protestant and I find some listed as non conformists in the early 1800's. Some came from areas some of the 'pilgrims' were from and I think that explains distant matches I get to some Mayflower and such descendents.

In the US my mothers family were Methodists and I think that came from either the Tyneside/Durham branch or the Welsh or both. I do recall some documents that made me think some were at one point Anglican as well as Church of Scotland.

JMcB
09-22-2016, 07:57 PM
Well, I'm afraid I'm not going to be of much help but I will tell you what I know. All of my English ancestry is on my mother's side of the family and the furthest I been able to get on that line is the 1830s, with a passing reference to the 1680s.

My Great, Great Grandfather James Townsend was born in England in 1849 and came to New York in 1868. On one census he's listed as being a "builder" and on another one as owning a "carpenter's shop". Two years after his arrival he married Jennie Aitken whose parents where born in Scotland, though she and her siblings were born in New York. Judging from her older sister's date of birth, her parents arrived in the United States sometime before 1847.

Unfortunately, the only clue I have concerning the Townsend's English origins, isn't a very good one. Nevertheless, here it is:

11786

http://named.publicprofiler.org


Now the daughter of James and Jennie Townsend, Grace Townsend, married Thomas R. Johnson who was the son of Thomas Brown Johnson and Agnes Margaret Wilson. Thomas Brown Johnson was born in 1832 and was a "carriage builder" in Toronto, Canada. His son Thomas R. Johnson migrated to New York in 1897. He's listed as being an "artist" in the 1900 census and he later became one of the architects who worked on the Woolworth Building in the early 1900s. He died from the flu in 1915. It was from his obituary that I learned that the Johnsons originally came to the Colonies with William Penn in the 1680s. Presumably to Pennsylvania, although it could have been New Jersey, as Penn founded a community there in 1677. If they came with the latter group they were probably from Hertfordshire or Buckinghamshire. If they came with the group that went to Pennsylvania, they were probably from around London. And one would imagine that they were probably Quakers, thought not necessarily so.


Of course, that's assuming a lot and admittedly, isn't a lot.

A Norfolk L-M20
09-22-2016, 08:19 PM
I'd just like to thank all of the contributors so far to this thread. Some excellent genealogy work from you all there. I'm getting the impression that Ango-American ancestry is very varied in origin, period, and class. the reason that maybe I've so far failed to connect trees with anyone via genetic genealogy is maybe a mixture of bad luck, a little bit that my East Anglian rurals did rarely move much, and that English records in North America were often poor.

Keep bringing them in though, please!

JMcB
09-22-2016, 08:58 PM
I have found that at least in my case, the records here have been fairly decent. I've seen land grants and Revolutionary War payments for my paternal ancestors. A variety of censuses going back to 1790. Plus, birth, marriage and death certificates and tombstones and the like. However, whenever I gaze across the pond and look towards the British Isles everything goes blank and I can't see a thing. Perhaps, it's because my people were regular people and they gave themselves regular names, over and over again. So that they just fade in with all the others.

All I know, is when they came and where they came from. And in the latter case, I only know generally.

Baltimore1937
09-22-2016, 09:39 PM
My direct maternal line has a brick wall. Since it is a rare U5b2b2, and appears in earliest Massachusetts, I've been trying to connect Indiana with Plymouth. At a point along the way, the Lee surname intersects. The Lee line I settled for, but now looks wrong, is interesting in that the widespread Lees, although of different Protestant sects, cooperated in business and other ways. A New England Lee apparently had a business connection with Pennsylvania Quaker Lees, and shifted to Maryland. I suspect there was trading in dry goods for backwoods whiskey and other frontier products going on there. However, I now suspect my own Lee connection (Pa?,OH,IN) was less grandiose.

razyn
09-22-2016, 11:31 PM
So here goes for first generations to arrive in the colonies:


Wilcoxson, Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England b. 1601


Assuming these are your ancestors (and not just some people listed in the same source) -- in case that's the family that had some members in early Frederick and Prince Georges Co. MD, a couple of guys in my wife's paternal line (Litton, from Ottery St. Mary in Devonshire) married Wilcoxen girls. I don't descend from a Litton/Wilcoxen union, but our sons and grandsons do. Those Littons were pioneers in what is now Rockville, county seat of Montgomery Co. MD.

Celt_??
09-23-2016, 12:03 AM
@ geebee "appearing out of no where". The most important issue to understand about Virginia and other Mid Atlantic colonies IS that 75% of immigrants arrived as Indentured Servants meaning that their "transportation" was paid by someone else who received their right to 50 acres of land per person. Usually they were indentured for 5 to 7 years and received no income and not much more than basic shelter, basic food and one set of new clothes each year. So their arrival is not entered into the court records and they have no right to 50 acres. After their 5 - 7 years, they may then "appear" in court records when they acquire land - a deed - and appear on tax rolls, etc.

Thus there were no court records for immigrants as long as they were indentured. But you can understand that with no income for 5 - 7 years, after indenture it was very difficult for them to buy land so often as a first step they hired themselves out as paid servants. Or if they had a reputation as bright and industrious, they might lease land from their Master or another land owner in exchange for a percentage of their crop. Only when they entered the Virginia economy in their own name as a freeholder of land do they begin "to appear" in court records.

There are court records for some better off persons who paid their own transportation to Virginia and thus were entitled to 50 acres each. These records are referred to as "Importations". I have posted examples on my website:

http://www.milaminvirginia.com/X-Docs/Org_OB2_p156-157_22MAY1740.html

http://www.milaminvirginia.com/X-Docs/Org_OB4_p398_25JUL1745.html

Obviously, it was not easy being an immigrant to the tobacco producing Mid-Atlantic colonies; life simply was difficult. The story was quite different for the colonies of New England where most immigrants were middle class tradesmen and were never indentured.

Dewsloth
09-23-2016, 12:10 AM
Assuming these are your ancestors (and not just some people listed in the same source) -- in case that's the family that had some members in early Frederick and Prince Georges Co. MD, a couple of guys in my wife's paternal line (Litton, from Ottery St. Mary in Devonshire) married Wilcoxen girls. I don't descend from a Litton/Wilcoxen union, but our sons and grandsons do. Those Littons were pioneers in what is now Rockville, county seat of Montgomery Co. MD.

Those are all my paternal grandmother's ancestors. Her mother was a Mead.
William Wilcoxson settled in CT, died there in 1652. The last Wilcoxson surname in my line is Abigail b. 1716 still in CT, and I think she died there (at least her husband did and daughter was born there, but moved to VT).

rms2
09-23-2016, 12:34 AM
I have a couple of matches with the surname Beddoes, and both of them are from England, one from Worcester and the other from Shropshire. Both say their family comes from Shropshire hard by the Welsh border, and Beddoes is a Welsh surname derived from a nickname for Meredith. The man born in Worcester is a 65/67 match. The other, a cousin of his, is a 36/37 match. Wish I could get them to go to 111 markers.

I hesitated to participate in this thread, since I think my y-dna ancestry is Welsh rather than English. I have fairly close 111-marker matches who have paper trails to Wales.

Baltimore1937
09-23-2016, 01:47 AM
I read somewhere, maybe here, that not all indentured servants (in Virginia) were stuck with manual labor. One example I recall was a school teacher, who was above the laboring class. He taught school and presumably received room and board.

aside: I just noticed, at Ancestry, that a couple of people added President Zachary Taylor to my Taylor line, ha ha! But his genealogy is easy to see by Googling it. Maybe there's a cousinage, though?

later: Very tenuously, it looks like I may be a cousin many times removed to both Zachary Taylor and his cousin James Madison.

C J Wyatt III
09-23-2016, 02:19 AM
@ geebee "appearing out of no where". The most important issue to understand about Virginia and other Mid Atlantic colonies IS that 75% of immigrants arrived as Indentured Servants meaning that their "transportation" was paid by someone else who received their right to 50 acres of land per person. Usually they were indentured for 5 to 7 years and received no income and not much more than basic shelter, basic food and one set of new clothes each year. So their arrival is not entered into the court records and they have no right to 50 acres. After their 5 - 7 years, they may then "appear" in court records when they acquire land - a deed - and appear on tax rolls, etc.

Thus there were no court records for immigrants as long as they were indentured. But you can understand that with no income for 5 - 7 years, after indenture it was very difficult for them to buy land so often as a first step they hired themselves out as paid servants. Only when they entered the Virginia economy in their own name as a freeholder of land do they begin "to appear" in court records.

There are court records for a few persons who paid their own transportation to Virginia and thus were entitled to 50 acres each. I have posted examples on my website:

http://www.milaminvirginia.com/X-Docs/Org_OB2_p156-157_22MAY1740.html

http://www.milaminvirginia.com/X-Docs/Org_OB4_p398_25JUL1745.html

Obviously, it was not easy being an immigrant to the tobacco producing Mid-Atlantic colonies; life simply was difficult. The story was quite different for the colonies of New England where most immigrants were middle class tradesmen and were never indentured.

I assume a lot more males came over than females. Do you have anything on the gender ratio? Thanks.

Jack

JMcB
09-23-2016, 03:00 AM
I assume a lot more males came over than females. Do you have anything on the gender ratio? Thanks.

Jack

Coincidentally, I just read what the ratio was in the 1600s right here:

Various factors fueled the need for new servants. One was demographics. Approximately 50,000 servants—or three-quarters of all new arrivals—immigrated to the Chesapeake Bay colonies between 1630 and 1680. The ratio of men to women among servants in the 1630s was six-to-one. Between 1640 and 1680, the ratio dropped to four-to-one, but even then, many men could not find wives to marry and therefore could not establish families. As a result of this and the high mortality rate among new servants, company officials and English merchants were forced to constantly replenish the Virginia colony's servant population.

11792

http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/indentured_servants_in_colonial_virginia#start_ent ry

Celt_??
09-23-2016, 03:01 AM
C J Wyatt III, you are quire right especially in the 1600s. And there are sad tales of poor women in London being picked up on the streets and forced aboard ships. And of course men and women debtors in prison being given the option of going to America as indentured servants. I have a few good books and I'll try to find an estimate for you.

While I was writing JMcB posted. The first year for immigrants to Virginia was referred to as the "seasoning" period. The "Tidewater" region was low and swampy and an ideal breeding grounds for mosquitoes which are the vectors for malaria, yellow fever and Dengue fever to which the native British had no immunity. Thus the very high early mortality rate.

Even during our Revolutionary War in the late 1770s, the British who occupied Hampton Roads three different times referred to the area as "unhealthy". It was one major reason that Lieutenant General Lord Charles Cornwallis gave for moving his entire army to Yorktown.

rivergirl
09-23-2016, 03:34 AM
Norfolk, my family did not go to America, they migrated to Australia, but I share your frustration.

I have been able to trace all my migrant ancestors, except 1 back to their country of origin (they all arrived from the UK/Europe 1850-1900s). Most came from England (Essex/Suffolk/Herts/Cam/Devon) or Ireland (Co Clare/Galway/Laois/Down/Fermanagh), 1 from Denmark and the unknown may have been from Scotland. I’ve been able to trace the English and Danish families back to mid 1700s in most cases and some further. The Irish lines are a bit harder to trace back in Ireland.

I have had ~a dozen of my extended family tested for yDNA, Big Y and FF.

After 10 years of genetic genealogy I too have not been able to add 1 new name or ancestor to my family tree. :(

We have 2 relatives with yDNA matches in their surname groups on our Irish lines, but they have not been able to make any link to a common ancestor. (In these cases the Irish yDNA is from “old” Irish surnames and go back ~1000 years or more.)
Our guys with yDNA lines from England have not had any matches with the same surname or region. My brother doesn’t have anything better than a 11/12 match on yDNA.

We all have FF tests and yet have not been able connect to any of our matches lines from "our" known genealogy. ie; my direct ancestry. (Though a few of my cousins etc have been able to connect to some of their matches on "their other" family lines).

ADW_1981
09-23-2016, 05:35 AM
I'm curious to know people's experiences of finding English roots for their American ancestors.


When did they arrive?
What was their occupation / social background?
What was their denomination?
Which part of England did their family originate from?


What sparks my curiosity as an Englishman, is that although I've carried out two 23andMe tests (myself and a parent), an FTDNA Family Finder test, GEDMATCH files, a FTDNA Y111 test, and an FTDNA Big Y (followed by additional Yfull and Full Genomes analysis), my DNA testing with regards to Genetic Genealogy, has been a dismal failure. Other than very distant Y cousins, I have not connected trees with one DNA cousin. It has added 0 named ancestors to my genealogy. I enjoy tracing the haplogroups for the longer story, but no close matches. I expected to have lots of second to sixth cousins and on wards in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. England has been such a massive exporter of DNA across the World over the past several centuries. Autosomal DNA tests for ancestry fail to identify English as a definitive group - and our results tend to blur into other British, North-West European, Western European, Irish, and even Southern European groups, regardless of the commercial service. However, I understood that some of the receiving nation-states of English DNA, particularly the USA, were some of the most avid DNA testers. So where are my matches?

When I do contact my nearest American matches, whether on 23andMe, GEDMATCH, or FTDNA, we never find a common connection. Very often, their recorded ancestors with English surnames have been in the Americas since the 1750s or earlier. I don't find those connections.

My recorded ancestors were all English, predominantly from the County of Norfolk. One aspect that I suspect that could be a factor was their social status. My ancestors were very much rural working class. Relatively few named trades, and even then, usually minor trades, often combined with labouring. During C18 and C19, the men were mainly East Anglian Agricultural labourers. Geographic mobility of my ancestors was also quite limited. On my mother's side, I have dozens of direct ancestors, bunched up near to the River Yare in the east of Norfolk going back 360 years on record. Second cousins marrying second cousins. My suspicion would be that they descended predominantly from the rural peasantry (including the freemen) of those parishes bway back into the Medieval. But I could be wrong.

I've been researching the Puritans today, and I saw a number of references to many of them being from Eastern England, including from Norfolk. However, these references also clearly suggest that they were better educated, petit bourgeoisie, middle classes, tradesmen, and crafts people - and that only a small percentage were agricultural. I'm also interested in how the DNA of these classes of people are often more admixed and mobile than that of surrounding agricultural populations. For example, here in Norfolk, substantial numbers of religious refugees arrived here during C16, from what are now the Netherlands, Belgium, and France. This immigration was often encouraged, in order to bring new skills, technologies, and crafts into urban and trade centres such as Norwich. A few thoughts there.

I'm also aware that many, many English emigrated to North America and elsewhere not as Puritans, but as indentured servants (although again, I suspect that these were mainly trades and crafts people from urban and semi urban centres), adventurers, Quakers, and merchants. I'm aware that English migration continued in waves throughout the later C17, and through the C18, C19, and C20. In later migrations, many migrants may have been from wider backgrounds, including from labouring backgrounds from around England.

I'd love to hear from other people's genealogical and historical research on this matter. Specifically English please. The Irish, and Scottish were often different cases. Where are my genetic genealogy matches from North America? How different (genetic drift?) is the DNA of Anglo-Americans to mine? Particularly as most commercial DNA test companies use English references that include Anglo-Americans.

Thanks in advance.

I'm not American, but 100% English background..(well pretty close in recent history, all 4 grandparents). Most family settled in my country in the early 20th century, but a few lines arrived in the mid 1800's. Around the turn of the 20th century Britain encouraged movement to Canada. My male family members fought for the Allies in WWI and WWII.

They were anything from skilled trades to farmers. Anglican was the denomination, predominantly from the south of England.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-23-2016, 07:44 AM
"My male family members fought for the Allies in WWI and WWII."
Their service is not forgotten.

Wing Genealogist
09-23-2016, 11:01 AM
I have been hesitant to post on this thread since I hardly know where to begin. Most of my ancestry came over during the English "Great Migration" from 1620-1650. In addition, almost all of my ancestry settled in New England (primarily Massachusetts, but it does include the other New England States). Unlike the Southern States, in general the New England towns maintained good records (and the losses due to fire, etc. are fairly small). While some folks came in servitude to New England, the society was geared towards men obtaining their freedom fairly quickly.

I am able to trace a good portion of my ancestry back to my immigrant ancestors. Even though I already knew about my ancestry, I decided to further my knowledge with DNA testing. I have found it surprising most of my DNA matches are from folks with "Southern" ancestry, but I believe this is due to the fact folks who have ancestry from Colonial New England already "know" about their ancestry, and don't feel the need to conduct DNA testing.

I know my Y-DNA line (Wing) was living in Banbury, Oxfordshire, England in the 1580s, but they were not native of this town. It is unknown where they came from prior to moving there. My Y-DNA ancestor was a tailor, and was wealthy enough to send one of his sons (my ancestor) to Oxford University to become a priest. My mtDNA ancestry was from the Cransford, Suffolkshire area. I don't know her maiden name, but she married John Russ(e) about 1638, had one son in England, and migrated to Massachusetts Bay Colony where they settled at Newbury, MA and had more children.

I have not seen any pattern regarding where in England my ancestors came from (but I haven't even searched for such a pattern). I also know some of my ancestry came from Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, but it appears roughly 80% of my ancestry (simply a guess) was from England itself.

I have an online tree at: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=rtwancestry&id=I1

I would be happy to try to better answer any questions you may have.

WilliamAllan
09-23-2016, 05:26 PM
American here of colonial stock. My background is largely from the Isles with a little bit of colonial Dutch & German thrown in for good measure. I have a fair bit of English ancestry (lot of Scots & Irish too) who settled mostly in New England & New York in the 1600s & 1700s and one line that settled in Virginia in the 1600s (Alcock).

My New England/New York lines include the surnames (in no particular order): Cornell, Horton, Tuthill, Hallock, Terry, Rathbone, Mannell, Wells, Parker, Ingersoll, Jennings, Wickham, Bailey, Hunt, Humphrey, Coventry, Smith, Wright, Knapp, Burch, Filkins, Langdon, Nelson, Barber, Newberry, Stark, Packer, and surely others. They seem to hail from all over England though slightly weighted to the east & north.

My paternal/Y-chrom line is Scottish though--Logiealmond district just west of Perth...

Dewsloth
09-23-2016, 05:38 PM
Found another one, and added it to my list above:

Deuel, Spalding, Lincolnshire, England b. 1615 - Bailiff of Rehoboth RI
According to geni.com, his dad had three wives in Spalding, so I'm not sure which is kin: One surname is Eldred, the other two unknown.

Dewsloth
09-23-2016, 05:56 PM
I have been hesitant to post on this thread since I hardly know where to begin. Most of my ancestry came over during the English "Great Migration" from 1620-1650. In addition, almost all of my ancestry settled in New England (primarily Massachusetts, but it does include the other New England States). .

I just found Wings up the Griffith side of my tree, but they seem to be from Oxfordshire, not Kent like the ones I saw on your tree, although they ended up in MA just the same:
Beulah Wing-
Father Daniel Wing, b. 1616, Banbury, Oxfordshire, England d. 10 Mar 1697, Sandwich, Barnstable County, MA F (Age 81 years)
Mother Hannah Swift, b. Abt 1620, England d. 1 Mar 1664, Sandwich, Barnstable County, MA (Age ~ 44 years)

Wing Genealogist
09-23-2016, 06:20 PM
I just found Wings up the Griffith side of my tree, but they seem to be from Oxfordshire, not Kent like the ones I saw on your tree, although they ended up in MA just the same:
Beulah Wing-
Father Daniel Wing, b. 1616, Banbury, Oxfordshire, England d. 10 Mar 1697, Sandwich, Barnstable County, MA F (Age 81 years)
Mother Hannah Swift, b. Abt 1620, England d. 1 Mar 1664, Sandwich, Barnstable County, MA (Age ~ 44 years)

Your Wings are my Wings. I descend from Daniel Wing's brother (Stephen Wing, b. ca 1621). Their father, Rev. John Wing did not return to Banbury after graduating from Oxford University, but settled in Kent. We have found where he was in Stroud, Kent by 1608 and he supposedly moved to Sandwich, Kent about 1614. The family moved to mainland Europe, originally at Hamburg by 1617, but later in Flushing & The Hague.

Dewsloth
09-23-2016, 06:29 PM
Your Wings are my Wings. I descend from Daniel Wing's brother (Stephen Wing, b. ca 1621). Their father, Rev. John Wing did not return to Banbury after graduating from Oxford University, but settled in Kent. We have found where he was in Stroud, Kent by 1608 and he supposedly moved to Sandwich, Kent about 1614. The family moved to mainland Europe, originally at Hamburg by 1617, but later in Flushing & The Hague.

Wow, thanks! B):beerchug:

rms2
09-24-2016, 03:55 PM
So, which one of you guys is the Lord of the Wings? ;)

11808

A Norfolk L-M20
09-24-2016, 07:22 PM
"My male family members fought for the Allies in WWI and WWII."
Their service is not forgotten.

I'd just like to second John's post. The Internet is too often used to create divisions between peoples. The British (as opposed to just the English) really do have an awful lot in common with both US Americans, and Canadians (and also the Australians, New Zealanders, etc) that we often forget. Culturally, historically, economically, and in terms as this thread demonstrates, often of shared heritage and ancestry. We really are DNA cousins. The efforts and sacrifices of all of the Allied forces have not been forgotten. here. Thanks to all of your grandparents.

Dewsloth
09-24-2016, 09:26 PM
So, which one of you guys is the Lord of the Wings? ;)

11808

Ha! I shall defer to WG as Wing Commander.:biggrin1:

Wing Genealogist
09-24-2016, 10:47 PM
So, which one of you guys is the Lord of the Wings? ;)

11808

As I am the Genealogist for the Wing Family of America, I guess that makes ME the Lord of the Wings! :angel:

Celt_??
09-27-2016, 09:57 PM
A couple years ago I searched through the International Genealogical Index's of births for Great Britain looking for "Milam"s and phonetically similar surnames. I was able to find births beginning in 1535 and recorded them on an interactive map through 1700.

11850

These 200+ births occurred primarily in 6 counties in England and later in 2 counties in Scotland. I'm hopeful that the Living DNA testing will help me to narrow my search to just a couple of counties. If you would like to view my interactive map, it's really pretty neat especially the old names and spellings variations. You can choose time intervals in the upper right corner.

http://www.communitywalk.com/map/index/1573258

FredBats
10-29-2016, 01:03 AM
I'm curious to know people's experiences of finding English roots for their American ancestors.


When did they arrive?
What was their occupation / social background?
What was their denomination?
Which part of England did their family originate from?


Well I am a colonist [Canadian], however, all my ancestors, themselves either English or European, are all within two generations so that's pretty simple. I have, however, been working with a North American whose ancestors seemed to have fragmented off from the family group prior and so I'll use him / what we've found. It was, after all, pretty easy to make the connection aside from the DNA what with an unusual spelling to a somewhat common surname.


His ancestors arrived from Yorkshire / Midlands sometime in the early to mid 1700s. The son, John we'll call him, was third son from a long line of merchants, freemasons and even town councillors. His father had been a very successful farmer [freeholder] and his uncle, my ancestor, owned an impressive apothecary.

Near as we figure John and his younger brother struck out to the Americas. Possibly they were funded by one of the merchant relatives. Or maybe they were trying to make a go of it on their own. John himself wasn't unfavoured as some third sons would be - he was named with quite a handsome chunk of land & money in his father's will so it wasn't as if he was kicked to the curb.

The irony is, and have always wondered if they guessed or even knew, they joined up in New York with relatives from another branch of the family that had been tossed into Ireland by Cromwell as Royalists. They likely had some understanding as the ancestor to that Irish branch himself was affluent in his own right.


Anyways as mentioned not badly off. John was an apprentice freemanson here and then became a gentleman farmer in Canada, his brother became a priest in the US. But the irony of a small world in a town near where I am living now there is a road that possesses a remarkably familiar name to me. The street was named in tribute to the guy's great-grandfather was an important engineer / builder here.


What was their denomination - Protestant & Methodist, not a single Catholic among them. Same as our side.

Which part of England did their family originate from Yorkshire / Midlands. It isn't clear where he was born exactly as his father owned two properties and what records exist some name one location and others another.

Baltimore1937
11-01-2016, 08:46 AM
Quakers were supposed to be in Pennsylvania. But I find Quaker connections in my Virginia lines. They must have had to pay church tax, which probably irked them. Eventually some are seen In North Carolina, possibly for that reason. By the mid-1800s, though, in Indiana, etc., they dropped their Quakerness, at least for the most part. But there are huge gaps in the records of those lines.

FredBats
11-02-2016, 10:30 AM
Quakers were supposed to be in Pennsylvania. But I find Quaker connections in my Virginia lines. They must have had to pay church tax, which probably irked them. Eventually some are seen In North Carolina, possibly for that reason. By the mid-1800s, though, in Indiana, etc., they dropped their Quakerness, at least for the most part. But there are huge gaps in the records of those lines.

Interesting though it would be more the fact that the Quakers were an important part of the frontier that they didn't just stay "in" Pennsylvania. They were in almost every eastern & eastern leaning central state at one point. Further they were one of the most predominant anti-slavery groups in the mid & late 1700s. Their migration though wasn't merely due to church tax but, as like other religious groups, they sort of got fed up with the intolerance of - and the persecution encouraged by - the Anglican Church.

Brent.B
11-02-2016, 08:51 PM
I can trace my ancestry back to Oakwell hall, Yorkshire, England. Oakwell hall was built in the 1500's by my ancestors and is still around today (I've been a few times). I'm not sure what their "class" or occupation was, but they apparently had enough money to own multiple estates all around Yorkshire.

My family came to America in 1642, after siding with the loyalists during the English civil war. After the loyalists lost, my family packed up and came to Virginia, where records show they purchased around 5000 acres of land.

Whats interesting is that I belong to M458->L1029... a very rare haplogroup in England. For a while I wasn't sure if the paper trail I had was accurate, but then matched (through the Big-Y) with another L1029 individual that traced their ancestry within miles of Oakwell hall, Yorkshire. We belong to the haplogroup YP4647 (downstream of L1029).

On another thread here on this forum YP4647's age was discussed and it seems to be between 1000-1500 years old.

Baltimore1937
11-04-2016, 08:09 AM
Interesting though it would be more the fact that the Quakers were an important part of the frontier that they didn't just stay "in" Pennsylvania. They were in almost every eastern & eastern leaning central state at one point. Further they were one of the most predominant anti-slavery groups in the mid & late 1700s. Their migration though wasn't merely due to church tax but, as like other religious groups, they sort of got fed up with the intolerance of - and the persecution encouraged by - the Anglican Church.

I really don't know the extent of Quakers in my branch back there in colonial Virginia. Going back in time, it is "Puckett", then incoming lines of "Taylor" and "Page". I'm guessing that the Taylor line goes back to the immigrant John (sometimes given as James) Taylor, born 1607 or so in Carlisle, Cumberland, England. Two different females with "Page" that I'm guessing are related. Their roots go back to Suffolk, England. I hope I remembered that right for the Page line. And two females with the last name of "Nin", which is derived from Nynne or etc. How many of them were Quaker, I don't know. But someone a few years ago checked up on my claim about Puckett in Grayson County, Virginia, and verified that, being in a Quaker record book. I also saw somewhere on line a Quaker record source for Page in earliest Isle-of-Wight County, Virginia.

11-04-2016, 09:50 AM
I'd just like to thank all of the contributors so far to this thread. Some excellent genealogy work from you all there. I'm getting the impression that Ango-American ancestry is very varied in origin, period, and class. the reason that maybe I've so far failed to connect trees with anyone via genetic genealogy is maybe a mixture of bad luck, a little bit that my East Anglian rurals did rarely move much, and that English records in North America were often poor.

Keep bringing them in though, please!

Hiya,

I did read about this topic a long time ago whilst at a library in Portsmouth University and it always stuck with me, a good way of gauging where a particular Colonial came from was by using the "ships logs" I think most of these logs still exisit at least in microfiche, doesnt matter where the ship sailed from, Liverpool, Bristol, London etc
Some of the ships did not differentiate which country one came from, for example even Welsh people were listed as English, but they did list the County which they hailed from,
So in your case, by looking at the ships logs for people from Norfolk, maybe you could look through all the ships that were sailing the routes to the American Colonies, and looking up their logs, and the people who were there, this would be a good starting point, later once you have the name of the person, or persons (maybe a family) you could try to trace them in Colonial State they settled in?

Brent.B
12-03-2016, 06:49 PM
Well I am a colonist [Canadian], however, all my ancestors, themselves either English or European, are all within two generations so that's pretty simple. I have, however, been working with a North American whose ancestors seemed to have fragmented off from the family group prior and so I'll use him / what we've found. It was, after all, pretty easy to make the connection aside from the DNA what with an unusual spelling to a somewhat common surname.


His ancestors arrived from Yorkshire / Midlands sometime in the early to mid 1700s. The son, John we'll call him, was third son from a long line of merchants, freemasons and even town councillors. His father had been a very successful farmer [freeholder] and his uncle, my ancestor, owned an impressive apothecary.

Near as we figure John and his younger brother struck out to the Americas. Possibly they were funded by one of the merchant relatives. Or maybe they were trying to make a go of it on their own. John himself wasn't unfavoured as some third sons would be - he was named with quite a handsome chunk of land & money in his father's will so it wasn't as if he was kicked to the curb.

The irony is, and have always wondered if they guessed or even knew, they joined up in New York with relatives from another branch of the family that had been tossed into Ireland by Cromwell as Royalists. They likely had some understanding as the ancestor to that Irish branch himself was affluent in his own right.


Anyways as mentioned not badly off. John was an apprentice freemanson here and then became a gentleman farmer in Canada, his brother became a priest in the US. But the irony of a small world in a town near where I am living now there is a road that possesses a remarkably familiar name to me. The street was named in tribute to the guy's great-grandfather was an important engineer / builder here.


What was their denomination - Protestant & Methodist, not a single Catholic among them. Same as our side.

Which part of England did their family originate from Yorkshire / Midlands. It isn't clear where he was born exactly as his father owned two properties and what records exist some name one location and others another.

Its too bad this account got banned. I'm not sure if this is a reach... but we share a very similar surname. Mine is Batte (first written as Batt) and his is "Bats" (?).

We also share paternal origins in Yorkshire. I'd be curious to know what haplogroup he belongs to.

johnthe
02-18-2019, 06:15 PM
My most well documented multiple times great grandfather came over in the 1700s from what is now Manchester. He was a farmer but was fond of painting and painted what I would classify as some masterpieces. I still have these as a family memento to this day and intend on passing them down to my grandchildren.

JoeyP37
02-18-2019, 10:26 PM
My maternal grandfather was 100% English, Milton Whitman. There are two Whitman families in America, the Whitmans who were always Whitmans and settled initially in Massachusetts (the town of Whitman, Massachusetts, is named after them) and the Whitmans who used to be Wightmans and who settled in Rhode Island. This family is descended from two grandsons of Edward Wightman, the last man in England to be burned to death for his religious beliefs. I am descended from the Rhode Island Whitmans (there are some Wightmans also descended from Edward's grandsons, as they did not change the spelling of their name) and my line is also descended from Samuel Gorton, the founder of Warwick, Rhode Island, the city where I was born. As far as I know the poet Walt Whitman was descended from the Massachusetts family.

msmarjoribanks
02-19-2019, 01:15 AM
Great thread, glad it got bumped!


I'm curious to know people's experiences of finding English roots for their American ancestors.


When did they arrive?
What was their occupation / social background?
What was their denomination?
Which part of England did their family originate from?


What sparks my curiosity as an Englishman, is that although I've carried out two 23andMe tests (myself and a parent), an FTDNA Family Finder test, GEDMATCH files, a FTDNA Y111 test, and an FTDNA Big Y (followed by additional Yfull and Full Genomes analysis), my DNA testing with regards to Genetic Genealogy, has been a dismal failure. Other than very distant Y cousins, I have not connected trees with one DNA cousin. It has added 0 named ancestors to my genealogy. I enjoy tracing the haplogroups for the longer story, but no close matches. I expected to have lots of second to sixth cousins and on wards in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. England has been such a massive exporter of DNA across the World over the past several centuries. Autosomal DNA tests for ancestry fail to identify English as a definitive group - and our results tend to blur into other British, North-West European, Western European, Irish, and even Southern European groups, regardless of the commercial service. However, I understood that some of the receiving nation-states of English DNA, particularly the USA, were some of the most avid DNA testers. So where are my matches?

I have a variety.

To start, one of my ggg-grandfathers immigrated from England in 1871. He originally went to Ontario and then went to the western US, ended up in Washington state. I have connections in Canada, Australia, and England from him. He was born and raised in Kent and his mother's family (source of my other connections) was a non-conformist family (Calvinist) from Essex, and his father's family were Church of England from Shropshire. He married a daughter of Welsh immigrants and the family was Methodist in the US. We have some Canadian, Australian, and English matches, so far all seem to be from his mom's family.

That was my dad's patrilineal line. On the other hand, his mom's ancestry, and especially her matrilineal line, which is my most well researched and farthest back line, came to American in the 1620s and 30s. Some of my grandmother's ancestry came here (MA) in 1623 from Devon, others came in the 1630s from Suffolk, others came in the 1620s-50s from unknown parts of England. I don't have non-American matches with these, although my dad has (among other things) many mtDNA matches. Most of these are well documented.

My dad's father's maternal line and my mom's English lines have a substantial amount that is likely back to England (and some questionable pedigrees), but are largely lost in Colonial America in the 1700s.

JerryS.
02-19-2019, 01:33 PM
1757, age 14, indentured servant (presumed to be an orphan), Shropshire. Landed in the Virginia colony.

mangumheel
02-19-2019, 02:41 PM
All known paternal ancestors from England, primarily southwest England, into Virginia pre-1700. A couple had Welsh surnames. No doubt some were indentured.

New_Englander
09-30-2019, 12:00 PM
1. My family (referring to members of my direct paternal line) arrived in about 1630

2. Although I do not know their occupation prior to arrival in Mass Bay Colony, my ancestor was a landowning farmer. He was also apparently a man of means, as he donated a respectable sum to the colonial administration. His son was a farmer and mariner, while his grandson seems to have been very involved in maritime trade.

3. Puritan/Congregationalist

4. Lincolnshire

Bj÷rnsson
11-24-2019, 02:43 AM
Father's father
1. 1910 (to Boston from Liverpool)
2. Milkman, Jeweler
3. Mormon
4. Bradford, Yorkshire & North Providence, Providence

Father's mother
1. 1635 (to Boston from London)
2. Farmer, Clothier, Soldier
3. Puritan
4. Hawkhurst, Kent & Concord, Middlesex

Mother's father
1. 1635 (to Boston from Plymouth)
2. Farmer, Fence viewer
3. Puritan
4. Halton, Buckinghamshire & Weymouth, Suffolk

Mother's mother
1. 1636 (to Jamestown from London)
2. Planter. Lawyer? Physician?
3. Anglican
4. London, Middlesex & Farnham, Richmond

passenger
11-24-2019, 03:54 AM
I have a ton of English ancestors from my father's side, but all of the ones that I've been able to trace back to England arrived in what is now the United States (mainly New England and Mid-Atlantic colonies, a few in Virginia) by the mid-18th century, and the vast majority of them arrived in the 17th century. They came from a wide variety of regions in England. I'm surprised that the OP didn't find more connections, since I've found many of my English lines surprisingly well-documented, some of them even extending back into the 15th century. I haven't spent a lot of time exploring my DNA matches connected to my English heritage, but from time to time I even find people in South Africa, Australia and New Zealand who are directly or indirectly linked to me through my colonial American (English) ancestry. My sense is that genealogy as a pursuit not limited to the upper classes has been historically more widely practiced in the United States than in England, so it could be that while the American lines are fairly well documented, there is a gap between when common ancestors left for North America and the point at which the traceable genealogies of modern English people pick up.

chelle
11-24-2019, 05:54 AM
1640s Yorkshire became a tobacco farmer in Maryland and Virginia
1680s Devon weaver by trade, came over as emmigrant in bondage, ended up becoming a fur trader
Some Quaker lines from various places
I can't actually trace too many back for certain to their place of origin in England, but I know one was from Canterbury area, one from Wiltshire, some from Midlands and possibly a couple from northeast and northwest someplace.

Bj÷rnsson
11-24-2019, 07:53 PM
My maternal grandfather was 100% English, Milton Whitman. There are two Whitman families in America, the Whitmans who were always Whitmans and settled initially in Massachusetts (the town of Whitman, Massachusetts, is named after them) and the Whitmans who used to be Wightmans and who settled in Rhode Island. This family is descended from two grandsons of Edward Wightman, the last man in England to be burned to death for his religious beliefs. I am descended from the Rhode Island Whitmans (there are some Wightmans also descended from Edward's grandsons, as they did not change the spelling of their name) and my line is also descended from Samuel Gorton, the founder of Warwick, Rhode Island, the city where I was born. As far as I know the poet Walt Whitman was descended from the Massachusetts family.

I'm descended from Wightman and Dad's mother's family moved to America because Bloody Mary had Alexander Hosmer burnt at the stake in Lewes, so they lived in the Weald on the county line between Sussex and Kent during the meanwhile. On Mom's father's side, he's descended from Ballou Universalists. This Yankee half of my grandparents most recently lived in Providence County, but I've got colonial ancestors from all over the state, mostly in Kent and Washington counties. I'm most proud of descent from Roger Williams and William Harris, long before the Mafia destroyed my hometown and capital. The Chafees are kin on Dad's mother's side. I do have Pilgrim ancestors, but not many.

As for the Yorkshire lineage bandied about in this thread, our family lived in the same parish of Catterick as Lord Baltimore's Kiplin manor, but his father was from nearby Danby Wiske and ours was in Scotton before Hipswell and Hudswell. We were all Papists until Rome acknowledged the Georgians over the Jacobites. Mom's mother comes from Confederate Deep Southern Democrats, but the earliest in Jamestown. I feel a bit lost as to Civil War sectionalism, but agree and disagree with both sides, same with the War of 1812, Revolution, Glorious Revolution, English Civil War and Reformation. Being descended from Edward IV and defenders of Richard III on the battlefield, I'm a Yorkist through and through.

passenger
11-24-2019, 08:19 PM
I'm descended from Wightman and Dad's mother's family moved to America because Bloody Mary had Alexander Hosmer burnt at the stake in Lewes, so they lived in the Weald on the county line between Sussex and Kent during the meanwhile. On Mom's father's side, he's descended from Ballou Universalists. This Yankee half of my grandparents most recently lived in Providence County, but I've got colonial ancestors from all over the state, mostly in Kent and Washington counties. I'm most proud of descent from Roger Williams and William Harris, long before the Mafia destroyed my hometown and capital. The Chafees are kin on Dad's mother's side. I do have Pilgrim ancestors, but not many.

As for the Yorkshire lineage bandied about in this thread, our family lived in the same parish of Catterick as Lord Baltimore's Kiplin manor, but his father was from nearby Danby Wiske and ours was in Scotton before Hipswell and Hudswell. We were all Papists until Rome acknowledged the Georgians over the Jacobites. Mom's mother comes from Confederate Deep Southern Democrats, but the earliest in Jamestown. I feel a bit lost as to Civil War sectionalism, but agree and disagree with both sides, same with the War of 1812, Revolution, Glorious Revolution, English Civil War and Reformation. Being descended from Edward IV and defenders of Richard III on the battlefield, I'm a Yorkist through and through.

Where are you actually from? I've seen you change your ethnicity and location from England to Norway, to the United States. In another thread you said all your grandparents were from England. I'm confused.

Edit: Correction, I just double-checked the post I recalled, and you said that 3/4 of your grandparents were from the London area. Nevertheless, my confusion persists. Did your ancestors move back and forth between North America and England?

Bj÷rnsson
11-24-2019, 10:25 PM
Where are you actually from? I've seen you change your ethnicity and location from England to Norway, to the United States. In another thread you said all your grandparents were from England. I'm confused.

Edit: Correction, I just double-checked the post I recalled, and you said that 3/4 of your grandparents were from the London area. Nevertheless, my confusion persists. Did your ancestors move back and forth between North America and England?I've traced my paternal line to Audbjorn of Fjordane or his brother Vemund who were defeated by Harald Fairhair, King of the Vestfold and Rognvald, Jarl of More, down through Bjorn Stallare, the Norwegian father of a Swedish soldier under Harald Hardrada at Fulford and Stamford Bridge, who afterward married into a local East Riding family at Hanging Grimston near Kirby Underdale only a few miles out from the battlefield in the countryside and they moved to the North Riding right before William the Bastard crossed the Channel--all from the Heimskringla, runestones and Domesday Book references. My clan lived in Richmondshire until George III, then Kirkbyshire under the Prince Regent, followed by Victorian Leeds and Edwardian Bradford, moving to North Providence with Bradford's Benn & Sons mill firm and still royal subjects during the reign of George V, becoming naturalised probably in 1924 and intermarrying with an American woman--Dad's mother, a bit like Edward VIII and Bessie Wallis. During the reigns of George VI and Elizabeth II, family would either come over and see us or some would go back, while I have lately been in contact with my West Riding cousins.

I'm just very aware of my roots and they aren't exactly confined to the typical Saxon vs. Norman bipolarity. We "Vikings" get short shrift when it comes to English historiography, while our clan has more genetically in common with the Faroes and Iceland than either English or Danish masses, not to mention Normandy. My grandparents all come from English families, only my paternal grandfather's is British and from Yorkshire rather than American and from London's Home Counties. Perhaps I play it up a little bit more than expected, except I was raised mostly around my London-American roots, rather than my York-British identity I pass on as heir to the family name. My paternal great-grandfather's paternal grandmother was born in Marylebone to a mother born at Norfolk House, but her father was a Yorkshireman with a shoemaking mill and she had my paternal great-grandfather's aunt in Paddington. My maternal line is likely Saxony from before Hengist and Horsa brought them across the North Sea, because that is where K2a5 is found, another sample in Sweden, this line making it to colonial Virginia, so it's funny that I'm married to another colonial London-American wife with K2(b1a) also, Virginian roots from Surrey and Middlesex, Suffolk and Northampton, but also from Northumberland.

CJH
12-09-2019, 08:38 AM
English ancestry on both sides, mostly pre-1700. Earliest direct paternal ancestor known arrived in Northampton Co., Virginia c. 1662 (most likely from the West Midlands) as an indentured servant and later settled on the Eastern Shore of Maryland; I would guess he came from a farming/yeomanry background and was as far as I know Anglican (some of his descendants were Presbyterian). Other traceable paternal ancestors from Yorkshire (Sledmere, near Driffield, and North Walsham) and Middlesex (Harrow); these were younger sons of gentry families, had arms, and were lawyers (also Anglican). Earliest direct-male-line ancestor of my maternal grandfather in the colonies was a Quaker from Amersham in Buckinghamshire who first went to Pennsylvania (c. 1700 or so; he obtained a land grand of 1000 acres from William Penn in 1682) and then to Maryland (he is described as "yeoman" in English records); other maternal ancestors from Gloucestershire (Cirencester; a pewterer, son and grandson of clothiers, so from a mercantile background; also Anglican and a church warden); Berkshire (a tobacco planter; described in records as "gentleman"); Middlesex (Pinner; son of an Anglican minister, family name is of Anglo-Norman origin) to one and various Catholic emigrants to Maryland (including a couple of passengers on the Ark and Dove) who cover the social spectrum from members of recusant gentry families to yeomanry and were from all over; Lincolnshire (a line that goes back to a 1086 Domesday tenant), Essex, Cumberland.

Webb
12-09-2019, 02:45 PM
I still don't see how people can get their trees back far enough to find a connection to England/Britain. In fact most of the trees I see on Ancestry who are researching the same families as I am have major holes and mistakes when they get as far back as the early 1700's. Even my own second cousin has us related to the William Cullen Bryant family out of New York, which gives her a window to tell the rest of the family we are related to Miles Standish. Our ancestor Peter Bryant was born in Virginia. William Cullen Bryant's father, Peter Bryant was not born in Virginia. Obviously it is not the same Peter, but when I tell her this she changes the subject. I do have a Family Finder match who is from Australia. I also have discovered through AncestryDNA that several people who match my father's family match my mother's as well, though my parents are not related. I did find that Augusta, Virginia seems to be a holding over place for most of my dad's mother's family before they moved on to Kentucky. Nickell, Jones, Craig, Newton, Fowler, Maguire. Nickell, Maguire, and Jones came from Tyrone, Northern Ireland to Virginia. My mother has two lines that ended up in Rockingham, Virginia, Tribby and Rutherford, and these two lines are the ones that intersect with my dad's family. Rutherford went from Tyrone, Northern Ireland to Augusta Virginia as well then some moved to Rockingham. Tribby I am not sure about. I have found several Treby families from Cornwall. It is a fairly rare surname and therefore should be easily traced, but I can't get past the early 1700's in Loudoun County, Virginia.

Lirio100
12-09-2019, 03:27 PM
Sometimes it's possible simply because the immigrants in question didn't arrive too far back. I have a great grandfather from England and a great grandmother from Wales who didn't come to the US until the 1880's; I was actually lucky enough to get a DNA match to a descendant of my great grandfather's brother still living in the area back in England. A 2x great grandfather's family came here in 1855 and left documents indicating where and when they came from--I have a DNA match to a contemporary member of that same family to confirm it. Now, once 'landed' in the home country the same problems often come up. I can't go too far back with these because of common surnames and repetition of first names.

On the other hand, a great grandmother comes from colonial families where the documentation ends in early 1800's New York. I'm pretty sure they're UK and there are several possibilities but no proof. I leave that one there but I'm aware that too many people go ahead and tack on what seems to be 'right.'

CJH
12-09-2019, 03:52 PM
I still don't see how people can get their trees back far enough to find a connection to England/Britain.

In my case I can get several lines across the pond because of extant records. The majority of 17th and 18th century colonists are hard to trace any further back than when they stepped off the boat in the New World; some of them are traceable further (those who came from families that owned property etc, generally). One of my ancestors is mentioned in a court case (in England) with one of his brothers as plaintiff against their two other brothers as defendant; the surname is a rare one and the manor house their elder brother inherited remained in the family until the early 1800's. One of my Quaker ancestors is mentioned in a letter from William Penn (and his family was one of those included in an academic study of 17th century rural Dissenters in England); his marriage is recorded in the Quaker meeting minutes held by the Buckinghamshire Record Society, and I was able to locate a mortgage to which he was party with his father-in-law in the UK National Archives. Another ancestor who was a pewterer by trade is recorded in the records of the Pewterers' Company at the London Guildhall; the record names his father by name, trade and place of residence (and I have his father's will).

razyn
12-09-2019, 06:40 PM
Another ancestor who was a pewterer by trade is recorded in the records of the Pewterers' Company at the London Guildhall; the record names his father by name, trade and place of residence (and I have his father's will).
The Willett family's distillery at Bardstown KY uses that family's touchmark from the Pewterers' Company on at least the high-end bottles of their fine product. I had a private tour of the distillery in 1972 and met a couple of those Willetts. Incidentally a willet is a shore bird, but doesn't look a lot like the one on the touchmark.
35244

CJH
12-09-2019, 06:53 PM
The Willett family's distillery at Bardstown KY uses that family's touchmark from the Pewterers' Company on at least the high-end bottles of their fine product. I had a private tour of the distillery in 1972 and met a couple of those Willetts. Incidentally a willet is a shore bird, but doesn't look a lot like the one on the touchmark.
35244

Yep, Edward Willett is my 7th great-grandfather (the whiskey Willetts are something like 6th-7th cousins).

msmarjoribanks
12-09-2019, 07:02 PM
I still don't see how people can get their trees back far enough to find a connection to England/Britain. In fact most of the trees I see on Ancestry who are researching the same families as I am have major holes and mistakes when they get as far back as the early 1700's. Even my own second cousin has us related to the William Cullen Bryant family out of New York, which gives her a window to tell the rest of the family we are related to Miles Standish. Our ancestor Peter Bryant was born in Virginia. William Cullen Bryant's father, Peter Bryant was not born in Virginia. Obviously it is not the same Peter, but when I tell her this she changes the subject. I do have a Family Finder match who is from Australia. I also have discovered through AncestryDNA that several people who match my father's family match my mother's as well, though my parents are not related. I did find that Augusta, Virginia seems to be a holding over place for most of my dad's mother's family before they moved on to Kentucky. Nickell, Jones, Craig, Newton, Fowler, Maguire. Nickell, Maguire, and Jones came from Tyrone, Northern Ireland to Virginia. My mother has two lines that ended up in Rockingham, Virginia, Tribby and Rutherford, and these two lines are the ones that intersect with my dad's family. Rutherford went from Tyrone, Northern Ireland to Augusta Virginia as well then some moved to Rockingham. Tribby I am not sure about. I have found several Treby families from Cornwall. It is a fairly rare surname and therefore should be easily traced, but I can't get past the early 1700's in Loudoun County, Virginia.

Depends on the line. I have many I can't get back to England (or wherever in some cases), but I have New England Quakers (Quakers keep good records) and some other New England early settlers, and it's possible with them.

My dad also has a gg-grandfather who immigrated from England in 1872, so that was easy (he married a woman whose parents had immigrated separately from Wales in the late 1840s/1850).

Baltimore1937
12-10-2019, 05:46 AM
Only my maternal grandmother has colonial origins. But I too noticed an occasional connection between New England and Virginia. Lee and Taylor families have connections in both places, with a colonial era recent common ancestor back in England. I assume they knew about their relatives in Virginia or New England. So that could have facilitated moving from one place to the other.