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Jean M
09-27-2016, 04:24 PM
https://www.livingdna.com/en-gb

The Unique Selling Point is the use of the People of the British Isles dataset to (in theory) locate British ancestry more precisely within the UK. Note that the PoBI title is somewhat misleading. It covered the UK, and so only included Northern Ireland.

However it also claims to have the ability to break down your ancestry across 80 worldwide regions, making it useful for everyone no matter which countries your ancestors are from, as well as breaking down British ancestry among 21 regions.

£120.00 Includes Free Delivery - Limited Availability - Shipping Mid Oct 2016.


The Living DNA Orion chip explores your family ancestry, motherline and your fatherline. With over 650,000 markers of your DNA tested at least 15 times, we conduct far over 9 million experiments on each person’s sample. This is done so we can give you the most complete picture of your ancestry.

– 638,000 autosomal SNPs
– 17,800 X-chromosome SNPs
– 22,500 Y-SNPs
– 4,700 mtDNA SNPs

Debbie Kennett has given it an enthusiastic review: http://cruwys.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/living-dna-new-genetic-ancestry-test.html

C J Wyatt III
09-27-2016, 04:39 PM
<<
The tests are being done on a new custom Illumina Global Screening Array chip. Living DNA are the first company in the world to have access to this chip. This chip is a replacement for the Illumina OmniExpress chip which is in the process of being phased out. The new chip has been designed specifically for imputation and achieves a very high accuracy rate of 99.9%.

Medical SNPs are included on the chip and there is considerable overlap with the 23andMe chip. (I note from the Illumina press release that 23andMe have signed up to the Global Screening Array chip and I wonder if a v5 23andMe test might be in the pipeline.)

The following SNPs are on the Living DNA chip:
– 638,000 autosomal SNPs
– 17,800 X-chromosome SNPs
– 22,500 Y-SNPs
– 4,700 mtDNA SNPs
>>

Are we seeing the future?

Jack

A Norfolk L-M20
09-27-2016, 05:03 PM
Ordered. Thank you!

sktibo
09-27-2016, 05:28 PM
Ordered. Thank you!

I hope you'll share your results when you get them with us. This is seriously exciting.

EDIT: Ordered one too, I just assumed they wouldn't be available in Canada. Let's see what we get!

L1983
09-27-2016, 06:08 PM
One to add to the list!

A Norfolk L-M20
09-27-2016, 06:13 PM
I hope you'll share your results when you get them with us. This is seriously exciting.

EDIT: Ordered one too, I just assumed they wouldn't be available in Canada. Let's see what we get!

Excellent. I'll be reviewing it against a strong recorded genealogy, 23andme results, and Ftdna results. It's going to be cool. I'm wondering what they'll also make of my haplogroups.

DillonResearcher
09-27-2016, 06:21 PM
Now if they did this with the Irish DNA Atlas results that would be brilliant!

JMcB
09-27-2016, 06:42 PM
Well, they got me. I just couldn't resist.

Thanks for the tip!

sktibo
09-27-2016, 07:39 PM
We should get some of our local Irish folks on board with this test.. I suspect they'd land in the west Scottish / north Irish category? I'd like to find out... (Dubhthach I'm looking at you)

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-27-2016, 08:15 PM
Errr, what does "activate online" mean exactly? " All you need to do is order a test, activate it online when it arrives, then return it to us with two mouth swabs and let us do the rest."

Jean M
09-27-2016, 08:27 PM
Errr, what does "activate online" mean exactly?

I presume that each kit has an identifying code/number that you need to enter into your account online, to verify that you have received the kit sent to you. Not that I know. But that is what happens with 23andMe.

firemonkey
09-27-2016, 08:32 PM
Future plans

It is planned to add in more data as it becomes available. It is hoped in particular to get some samples from Ireland


Does this mean that Ireland is excluded from the results or only Eire(Southern Ireland)? I am guessing this is not much good for Irish ancestry. I will be interested to see my results and how they compare to known ancestry.

sktibo
09-27-2016, 08:34 PM
Errr, what does "activate online" mean exactly? " All you need to do is order a test, activate it online when it arrives, then return it to us with two mouth swabs and let us do the rest."

So I expect it's similar to ancestry, you receive a kit from the company. That kit has a serial number on it. You enter the serial number into your online account. This is how they identify your sample, as the same number is on the sample you send back to the lab

sktibo
09-27-2016, 08:48 PM
For those of you who asked about Ireland, it appears they've included a general Ireland region. https://www.livingdna.com/en-ca/uk-regional-breakdown

DillonResearcher
09-27-2016, 08:49 PM
Does this mean that Ireland is excluded from the results or only Eire(Southern Ireland)? I am guessing this is not much good for Irish ancestry. I will be interested to see my results and how they compare to known ancestry.

I think that only Northern Ireland was included in the samples. I suspect that it will ID results as being from Southern Ireland but will not spilt in down into any smaller areas there.

sktibo
09-27-2016, 08:52 PM
I think that only Northern Ireland was included in the samples. I suspect that it will ID results as being from Southern Ireland but will not spilt in down into any smaller areas there.

According to their British isles breakdown they have a category for Ireland and northern Ireland ( called "Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland). So two Irish regions

Celt_??
09-27-2016, 08:52 PM
"activate online" is so you can view your results.

I ordered Living DNA too from Virginia, USA. But they forwarded me to a different version of their website which handles Non_UK orders. It appeared that the test could be ordered from most anywhere in the world. Cost to US was $159 . Attached is a map from POBI:

11848

sktibo
09-27-2016, 09:17 PM
"activate online" is so you can view your results.

I ordered Living DNA too from Virginia, USA. But they forwarded me to a different version of their website which handles Non_UK orders. Cost to US was $159 . Attached is a map from POBI:

11848

Canada cost was 199$. Considering this includes y Dna and mtdna that is more than fair imo.

Celt_??
09-27-2016, 09:50 PM
A couple years ago I searched through the International Genealogical Index's of births for Great Britain looking for "Milam"s and phonetically similar surnames. I was able to find births beginning in 1535 and recorded them on an interactive map through 1700.

11849

These 200+ births occurred primarily in 6 counties in England and later in 2 counties in Scotland. I'm hopeful that the Living DNA testing will help me to narrow my search to just a couple of counties. If you would like to view my interactive map, it's really pretty neat especially the old names and spellings variations. You can choose time intervals in the upper right corner.

http://www.communitywalk.com/map/index/1573258

Saetro
09-27-2016, 11:18 PM
[QUOTE=Celt_??;189444]A couple years ago I searched through the International Genealogical Index's of births for Great Britain looking for "Milam"s and phonetically similar surnames. I was able to find births beginning in 1535 and recorded them on an interactive map through 1700.
These 200+ births occurred primarily in 6 counties in England and later in 2 counties in Scotland. I'm hopeful that the Living DNA testing will help me to narrow my search to just a couple of counties.[\QUOTE]

Love your map technique, which to me looks to have done most of the work, so I am fuzzy-headed about what more you are trying to extract.
Cumbria and Norfolk are fairly clear in your oldest map as Tudor-age hotspots.
Is it the explosion around London in the next time period that is of concern?

MitchellSince1893
09-27-2016, 11:32 PM
Interested but will wait to see some feedback from customers before I take the plunge.

JMcB
09-27-2016, 11:45 PM
Canada cost was 199$. Considering this includes y Dna and mtdna that is more than fair imo.

I agree, it seems very reasonable to me.

ArmandoR1b
09-27-2016, 11:56 PM
I had been thinking for the past several years that there needs to be a DNA test for specific regions. I can foresee some problems though such as a huge slowdown in testing with 23andme, AncestryDNA, and FTDNA by people from the British Isles that would report their results so we can learn how good or bad the tests are for them even though I knew FTDNA was the worst for Europeans and the results for firemonkey and A Norfolk L-M20 are a few of many anecdotal cases that show that to be the case it would have been nice to see a lot more people like them posting and complaining about the tests.

I also hope that people that don't have ancestry from the British Isles but do have ancestry from the continent such as France, Germany, and the Scandinavians countries also get tested to see what their results are.

I am also very interested in the results of people that have all of their documented ancestry from Ireland.

ADW_1981
09-28-2016, 12:11 AM
Order it now before the pound makes that inevitable comeback! Long live Britannia!

EDIT: Ordered!

ADW_1981
09-28-2016, 12:14 AM
A couple years ago I searched through the International Genealogical Index's of births for Great Britain looking for "Milam"s and phonetically similar surnames. I was able to find births beginning in 1535 and recorded them on an interactive map through 1700.

11849

These 200+ births occurred primarily in 6 counties in England and later in 2 counties in Scotland. I'm hopeful that the Living DNA testing will help me to narrow my search to just a couple of counties. If you would like to view my interactive map, it's really pretty neat especially the old names and spellings variations. You can choose time intervals in the upper right corner.

http://www.communitywalk.com/map/index/1573258

I have Malham/Mallam in my tree. I wonder if this is the same surname.

jpb
09-28-2016, 01:43 AM
I am going to get it soon. Hopefully it will actually find my British ancestry, rather than just lump it in to Europe West...

Celt_??
09-28-2016, 03:24 AM
@ ADW_1981: Whether Malham / Mallam is in the same tree is problematic. I worked with an experienced "Milam" genealogist to decide which spellings we would accept as phonetic versions of "Milam". We decided to accept surnames which began with Mi or My and ended with M because of "their sound". So Mileham and Myleham seemed OK as did Millom and Millam. But who knows? We could be wrong in our assessment of phonetically similar surnames. Reviewing Virginia county court records, I found a record where the Clerk of Courts spelled my ancestor's name 3 different ways in one record: Milam, Millam, Mileham. I should probably consult a linguist!

On the interactive map link which I provided you may see the wide variation of spellings over 150 years which we found reasonable to accept:

http://www.communitywalk.com/map/index/1573258 (http://www.communitywalk.com/map/index/1573258)

FYI: In the USA, spelling was not standardized until the late 1700s. Benjamin Franklin of Philadelphia in 1768 developed A Scheme for a New Alphabet and a Reformed Mode of Spelling to simplify and regularize the spelling of English. His scheme deleted the letters c, j, q, w, x, and y, which he thought were redundant and proposed six new letters for sounds which were not uniquely represented by a single letter. This scheme found little support.

In 1783 Noah Webster, an American lawyer, editor and educator, began publishing his three volume compendium, the Grammatical Institute of the English Language including The American Spelling Book - the famous "Blue-Backed Speller" - that went on to sell over a 100 million copies. It reflected his principle that spelling, grammar and usage should be based on the living, spoken language.

Celt_??
09-28-2016, 03:41 AM
@ Saetro RE: "Love your map technique, which to me looks to have done most of the work, so I am fuzzy-headed about what more you are trying to extract.

Cumbria and Norfolk are fairly clear in your oldest map as Tudor-age hotspots. Is it the explosion around London in the next time period that is of concern?"

My concern is that I am willing to fund Y-DNA testing for a selected group of phonetically "Milam"s in a few counties but not 10 counties. I would like to narrow it down to the most likely 4 counties to begin with based upon Y-DNA testing resembling mine (R1b-U152>L20>CTS9733). Then I would need to find a genealogist or a someone to locate "Milam" families who would be willing to be tested.

Does anyone in Great Britain have an idea how to go about locating such a person ??

sktibo
09-28-2016, 03:50 AM
Interested but will wait to see some feedback from customers before I take the plunge.

Looks like plenty of us here have pre ordered already, so you can expect several great reviews as soon as our results come in. You're wise to wait but I just couldn't resist.. I thought a POBI based ancestry test would be nothing more than a fantasy for me and I am happy to be wrong about that

AnnieD
09-28-2016, 04:58 AM
To my hobbyist eye, the test company's website boast some impressive sounding credentials with their Management Team including a Wellcome Trust geneticist. However, I probably have too many SNP's for OCD as a few dangling cliffhangers in the "Our Team" section proved a little humorous (or if taken too seriously, worrisome). LOL!

David Nicholson (https://www.livingdna.com/en-gb/team-members/118/david-nicholson)
Managing Director

David Nicholson is a successful biotechnology entrepreneur who founded DNA Worldwide Group in 2004 with the aim to transform the level of service provided and ensure true quality and care&nbsp"

... ensure true quality and care & ... what? How about an acronym for "Nothing But Seasoned Pros" peer into your deepest genomic secrets? :P

And this one:

Dr. Martin Blythe (https://www.livingdna.com/en-gb/team-members/120/dr-martin-blythe) Head of Bioinformatics

Before joining Living DNA, Dr Martin Blythe was the Lead Bioinformatician at DeepSeq, the core NGS facility at The University of Nottingham where he gained more than 5 years experience in

... 5 years experience in ... ? Hoping not "The Non-Living DNA" or "ShallowSeq". :biggrin1:

And this one:

Dr. Jens Wiehler (https://www.livingdna.com/en-gb/team-members/150/dr-jens-wiehler) Partner Operations

Since January 2016, Jens manages a new “consumer DNA services” Eurofins business unit, focusing on laboratory service to B2C companies and offering also selectively directly to con

... OK, this one I think even I can figure out: directly to con(sumers?) Hopefully, not directly to cons, convicts, convents ...

Maybe it is my computer version as I'm not in UK. Or maybe I need to check out my SNPs for OCD, but I am not discouraged from a few typos from signing-up and seeing if I can prove my Gedmatch British results. :thumb:

sktibo
09-28-2016, 05:36 AM
To my hobbyist eye, the test company's website boast some impressive sounding credentials with their Management Team including a Wellcome Trust geneticist. However, I probably have too many SNP's for OCD as a few dangling cliffhangers in the "Our Team" section proved a little humorous (or if taken too seriously, worrisome). LOL!

David Nicholson (https://www.livingdna.com/en-gb/team-members/118/david-nicholson)
Managing Director

David Nicholson is a successful biotechnology entrepreneur who founded DNA Worldwide Group in 2004 with the aim to transform the level of service provided and ensure true quality and care*"

... ensure true quality and care & ... what? How about an acronym for "Nothing But Seasoned Pros" peer into your deepest genomic secrets? :P

And this one:

Dr. Martin Blythe (https://www.livingdna.com/en-gb/team-members/120/dr-martin-blythe) Head of Bioinformatics

Before joining Living DNA, Dr Martin Blythe was the Lead Bioinformatician at DeepSeq, the core NGS facility at The University of Nottingham where he gained more than 5 years experience in

... 5 years experience in ... ? Hoping not "The Non-Living DNA" or "ShallowSeq". :biggrin1:

And this one:

Dr. Jens Wiehler (https://www.livingdna.com/en-gb/team-members/150/dr-jens-wiehler) Partner Operations

Since January 2016, Jens manages a new “consumer DNA services” Eurofins business unit, focusing on laboratory service to B2C companies and offering also selectively directly to con

... OK, this one I think even I can figure out: directly to con(sumers?) Hopefully, not directly to cons, convicts, convents ...

Maybe it is my computer version as I'm not in UK. Or maybe I need to check out my SNPs for OCD, but I am not discouraged from a few typos from signing-up and seeing if I can prove my Gedmatch British results. :thumb:

Yeah that is worrisome...

Cinnamon orange
09-28-2016, 06:29 AM
I am interested:pop2:. Cannot order till in the US at Christmas, would order now if could. Only a quarter BI's ancestry but curious to see if it places in the areas I suspect.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-28-2016, 07:06 AM
After past experiences with the hype around Cymru dna Chromo 2 and the apparent unreliability of test results from other companies, I must admit I'm a bit sceptical but I am considering it. I'm still waiting for Family Finder results, so I may do this instead of something like Big Y.

Jean M
09-28-2016, 08:04 AM
a few dangling cliffhangers

You need to click on the name to get the full biography e.g.

David Nicholson
Managing Director


David Nicholson is a successful biotechnology entrepreneur who founded DNA Worldwide Group in 2004 with the aim to transform the level of service provided and ensure true quality and care in the industry. He is passionate that people are given the opportunity to understand the truth of their situation whilst supporting them to take responsibility for what got them there. With Living DNA, he appreciates the purpose of the business is to use DNA to help unite the world, in a way we can all see how closely we are connected.

Science is often seen as something that the average person on the street can't be part of, what we doing at Living DNA is allowing everyone to understand we are all scientistis in our own way. The more we engage with science the more we understand this. By working hand in hand with the worlds leading scientists and genetics experts we bring science to life. By taking this approach we have the ability to change our entire outlook on what science is and the part we play. With Living DNA, we have the opportunity to allow individuals to understand just how connected each of us are to everyone else in the world. As the strapline says, We Are All Made Up of All of Us. The team is fully collaborative and it's great to feel how everyone is uniting for a common purpose that is supporting people and the quality of relationships worldwide.

It only takes a short read of the daily newspaper to see the amount of conflict that goes on across the world. A large amount of this comes down to political, religious or racial animosity. Yet within our DNA is the fact we are all connected, we are all in essence, one big family. The more people get to appreciate the fact we are one, the less wars and conflicts may possibly occur. Even the way we feel about another person we pass on the street or read about can change, as we start to see everyone as equal and not different. Having seen the change in the children that have taken part in our anti-racism educations programs, it's clear that understanding your own DNA breakdown really does support a change in perception, and helps breakdown the illusion of race.

Jean M
09-28-2016, 08:08 AM
Dr. Martin Blythe


Before joining Living DNA, Dr Martin Blythe was the Lead Bioinformatician at DeepSeq, the core NGS facility at The University of Nottingham where he gained more than 5 years experience in applied bioinformatics. He received his PhD from The University of Reading & The Edward Jenner Institute for Vaccine Research in 2007, leading to a Research Fellowship at the Institute for Allergy and Immunology (LIAI) La Jolla, CA. .....

Dr. Jens Wiehler

Since January 2016, Jens manages a new “consumer DNA services” Eurofins business unit, focusing on laboratory service to B2C companies and offering also selectively directly to consumers.

Previously, Jens had built up Applied Genomics and DNA Forensics services at Eurofins to European leadership as Head of Business Development. Jens has 16 years of international business experience with genomics services and bioinformatics. He has a PhD in molecular biology from the Gene Center of Munich University, headed by Professor Dr. Ernst-Ludwig Winnacker, former Secretary General of the European Research Council and the Human Frontier Science Program, as well as President of the German Research Foundation. Jens’ scientific expertise includes population genetics, genome annotation, knowledge management, computer linguistics, ontologies (basic entities to organise information) and protein engineering....

Jean M
09-28-2016, 10:05 AM
Personally I am worried by several things about this firm.


The focus seems to be heavily on the use of statistics with modern DNA. That is what PoBI was all about, and the firm is strongest on statisticians who have worked with PoBI and/or other databases of modern DNA.
PoBI was led by people with an interest in genetics for medicine, who seemed not to be up to date with discoveries relevant to migration in prehistory even from their own field, genetics, let alone from archaeology. That led to outdated assumptions of continuity from the Mesolithic.
They have no experienced archaeologist or historian on board. They have a couple of fresh young graduates in archaeology and anthropology from the University of Bristol as content researchers, both of whom seem to have a focus on anthropology. This may explain some of the stranger statements in the firm's twee coverage of the regions of the UK (see next post).


On the other hand, I am very cheered by


The presence of Prof Jobling. This suggests that there will be no claims of descent from Niall of the Nine Hostages or anyone else for whom we do not actually have ancient DNA. I hope this includes Charlemagne.
The promise of use of aDNA samples in the future.


I will probably go for the test and grit my teeth through the supposed historical content.

Jean M
09-28-2016, 10:32 AM
the firm's twee coverage of the regions of the UK.
Aberdeenshire


Aberdeen and the surrounding areas of Northeast Scotland display a unique genetic signature. From hunter gathers to skilled farmers, the lives of the people in what came to be Scotland were changed forever.

Nobody entered Aberdeenshire after the Neolithic?

Central England


Central England has always been a melting pot - a place where waves of new European customs and people from the south have met and blended with older cultures and customs further north and west. This is a land of myths and legends, the home of Robin Hood and Lady Godiva.

Robin Hood and Lady Godiva? The latter is no myth. The former is a shadowy figure beloved by Hollywood and cursed by historians.

Northwest Scotland


Until the end of the last ice age around 12,000 years ago, what we now know as Northwestern Scotland showcased a vast and freezing landscape, with snow as far as the eye could see. This area has been changed throughout the years by migrations and kingdoms, and has a reputation for its independent, warlike tribes.

It had a reputation for warlike tribes in the Roman period. :)

South Wales Border


The South Wales border is a place full of imagination and mythical legend - King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table are thought to originate in Caerleon, being part of the British defence against the Anglo-Saxons.

Eeek! Quite apart from the fact that several regions passionately claim Arthur, this shadowy figure appears to have been a battle-leader rather than a king, and the knights of the round table are a medieval embellishment.


South Yorkshire


This region is the gateway to the North, with numerous settlers and conquerors passing through. Waves of migration from Northern Europe saw Angles, Saxons, and Jutes setting up vast and powerful kingdoms, both displacing and integrating with the indigenous Britons.

I doubt if many Saxons or Jutes settled as far north as this. The second sentence was probably lifted from a description of the Anglo-Saxon advent as a whole, where it would be perfectly acceptable.

Still, it is extremely difficult to condense a regional history into a couple of readable sentences, so I probably shouldn't complain.

J1 DYS388=13
09-28-2016, 10:46 AM
Jean M, obviously you should be a paid consultant on this. Pitch that to the company!

Jean M
09-28-2016, 11:24 AM
Jean M, obviously you should be a paid consultant on this.

Me? No. I think they are wise to plug into the academic community where they can. It may be that they do have an historical consultant or two, but I don't see them named on the website.

J1 DYS388=13
09-28-2016, 11:46 AM
Well, I don't think anyone knows the literature better than you, or is more cautious about conclusions. I would tell the company that on your behalf, but not unless I were invited to.

MacUalraig
09-28-2016, 12:05 PM
Personally I am worried by several things about this firm.


The focus seems to be heavily on the use of statistics with modern DNA. That is what PoBI was all about, and the firm is strongest on statisticians who have worked with PoBI and/or other databases of modern DNA.
PoBI was led by people with an interest in genetics for medicine, who seemed not to be up to date with discoveries relevant to migration in prehistory even from their own field, genetics, let alone from archaeology. That led to outdated assumptions of continuity from the Mesolithic.
They have no experienced archaeologist or historian on board. They have a couple of fresh young graduates in archaeology and anthropology from the University of Bristol as content researchers, both of whom seem to have a focus on anthropology. This may explain some of the stranger statements in the firm's twee coverage of the regions of the UK (see next post).


On the other hand, I am very cheered by


The presence of Prof Jobling. This suggests that there will be no claims of descent from Niall of the Nine Hostages or anyone else for whom we do not actually have ancient DNA. I hope this includes Charlemagne.
The promise of use of aDNA samples in the future.


I will probably go for the test and grit my teeth through the supposed historical content.

I doubt they will hoist themselves by their own petard that much as to employ historians (but you never know). Jobling co-authoried the rubbish on the sense about science website

http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/resources/119/Sense-About-Genetic-Ancestry-Testing.pdf

"To answer a specific question
about individual ancestry with
any degree of confidence
requires a combination of
historical records and genetic
information....
But
people’s genetics don’t reflect
discrete groups...
Instead groups show a story
of gradual genetic change and
mixing....
Human
history is complicated and involves a
lot of migration – so your ancestors
are probably from many different
places.
This Sense About... note was researched and drafted in February 2013 by Professor David Balding, Professor
Mark Thomas and Tabitha Innocent, Sense About Science; with assistance from Dr Turi King, Dr Lounès Chikhi, Dr
Rosalind Harding, ** Professor Mark Jobling ** & Professor Guido Barbujani."

Of course that piece has to be seen in its historical context - the UCL anti-ScoDNA campaign.

However the headline marketing tag on the new firm's website says

"Find out where you really come from"

which may raise eyebrows a bit?

Jean M
09-28-2016, 02:18 PM
Of course that piece has to be seen in its historical context - the UCL anti-ScoDNA campaign.

It certainly looks like this firm is keen to escape the kind of sustained public attack by academics that befell Moffat and co. Living DNA is employing Dr. Garrett Hellenthal, who is currently a research fellow at the UCL Genetics Institute (headed by Prof. David Balding). It is employing Prof. Jobling. He is one of many geneticists concerned not just about the over-selling of DTC test results, but about the possible encouragement of racism by the way in which results are presented. Living DNA is the first DTC genetic testing firm I've seen taking a strong public anti-racist line. That might make it more acceptable in France. Who knows?

What is clear so far is that Prof. Mark Thomas, ranter-in-chief re Moffat, is giving Living DNA the thumbs up.

MacUalraig
09-28-2016, 02:34 PM
Anyone notice the Viking cartoon graphics on the ancestry page? Also they seem to imply that they will make inferences about Viking ancestry if you match samples from the relevant countries?

"Will the test tell me if I am Viking/French/Polish/etc.?

We are only able to establish the percentage similarity of your DNA to the population samples available in our reference dataset. With regards to historical population groups, such as the Vikings and Anglo-Saxons, we can make inferences based on what present-day populations your DNA ends up being similar to, and we write this in the text of your results."

Celt_??
09-28-2016, 02:50 PM
Are any of the leadership of Living DNA actually associated with POBI presently or were they in the past? I wonder how they have access to the POBI data-set which seems crucial?

EDIT: Part of the answer to my questions was found in Debbie Kennett's review of Living DNA:

"The autosomal component of the test has been developed by Daniel Lawson, Grady Weinberg, Daniel Falush, Garrett Hellenthal and Simon Myers. Lawson, Falush, Hellenthal and Myers were the team who developed the fineSTRUCTURE program used for the analysis of the POBI data and they were all authors on the POBI paper. The Living DNA test uses a refined version of that program upscaled for commercial use. fineSTRUCTURE is a haplotype-based method which takes advantage of the fact that SNPs travel together, and provides a more detailed analysis."

http://cruwys.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/living-dna-new-genetic-ancestry-test.html (http://cruwys.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/living-dna-new-genetic-ancestry-test.html)

ArmandoR1b
09-28-2016, 03:22 PM
Anyone notice the Viking cartoon graphics on the ancestry page? Also they seem to imply that they will make inferences about Viking ancestry if you match samples from the relevant countries?

"Will the test tell me if I am Viking/French/Polish/etc.?

We are only able to establish the percentage similarity of your DNA to the population samples available in our reference dataset. With regards to historical population groups, such as the Vikings and Anglo-Saxons, we can make inferences based on what present-day populations your DNA ends up being similar to, and we write this in the text of your results."

I don't think that would be acceptable in France.

MacUalraig
09-28-2016, 03:27 PM
Are any of the leadership of Living DNA actually associated with POBI presently or were they in the past? I wonder how they have access to the POBI data-set which seems crucial?

Looks like it yes - Hellenthal, Falush, Myers appear in both the firm and POBI paper lists.

A Norfolk L-M20
09-28-2016, 05:27 PM
I've ordered the kit. However, I at the same time, I want to offer myself to the sharks, and stand up as a critic of autosomal DNA testing for ancestry, by any company so far. I'm not a believer. I do accept that atDNA tests for ancestry do have some value. I accept that they can be pretty good guides for determining some ancestries, stretching back several generations. I say some populations - those that are easier to distinguish, such as populations with long histories of isolation, or across vast areas such as between continents. Beyond that, they may give us indications, but it is my humble opinion, that they should rarely be taken as factual, perfectly creditable truths. All so often I see testers and assessors, take their proposed results, and then weave family history, local history, even world history, in order to make them all fit the DNA results. Sometimes to ridiculous lengths. Often involving ancient, sometimes even mythological populations. If the DNA test says 2% Martian, then it doesn't matter how likely it is, 2% of their ancestors moved to Earth within the past several centuries, under this faith system.

My own case, some regulars are probably fed up with me citing it. I'm English. I live in the landscape as the majority of my recorded ancestors from the past 360 years, here in Norfolk, East Anglia.. My mtDNA great great great grandmother married in 1818, only 100 yards from where I presently live. Some populations move. Some populations are heavily admixed with migrants within the past 400 years. Particularly bourgeois and urbanised populations, with a steady flow of incomers and out goers. But the rural peasantry of East Anglia most likely did not move very much, or marry with outsiders very often.

Let's look at my mother's ancestry:

123 recorded direct ancestors. Everyone of them in East Anglia, many clustered in East Norfolk. All English surnames, local families, English religious denominations. As for NPEs, or misinterpreted documentary evidence, sure these may well have some places in her tree. However, with my knowledge of family history, and photographs, I very much doubt that at least back to her Generation 4. And even NPEs were most likely to occur with locals. East Norfolk is on the road to nowhere. Sure there was traffic on the River Yare, but mainly with the same North Sea populations that admixed during the early medieval. Her ancestors were all rural working class - Norfolk Ag Labs and their families. And yes, I have encountered second and third cousins marrying in these communities in her tree. Here is a map of her ancestral events from my database (the larger the red dots, the more events for that parish):

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9034&d=1461724212]

Of course there has been admixture - but not so much over the past 500 years, so much as over the past several thousand years, with major events during the early medieval period.

What does 23andMe give her in AC "spec" mode? 100% British & Irish? No.

British & Irish 36%
French & German 13%
Scandinavian 4%
Southern European 2%
East Africa (SSA) <0.1%
The rest, broadly NW European 40%

Now on the attitude that some are now fostering - that is all an absolute truth.

I've since then made an effort to assess other British results on the 23andMe forums. My personal conclusion, is that what 23andMe pulls in common from their British & Irish reference population, is the atDNA that is inherited direct (with perhaps some genetic drift) from the late prehistoric Irish / British / Western European population - previous to any heavy North Sea admixture. That to me explains why the Irish and Scottish frequently score over 95% British & Irish - while the percentage dwindles as you travel South-East, when you hit my family in East Anglia. Meanwhile, the uncertainty of "broadly NW European" swells as the "B&I" diminishes.

Nothing to do with immigration over the past 500 years.

As for me, seven out of eight of my great grandparents were Norfolk born. Although the majority of my recorded ancestry is Norfolk, I can trace some lines to Oxfordshire, Berkshire, Lincolnshire, and Suffolk. 207 direct recorded ancestors, all English.

On 23andMe AC spec I get (after phasing) 37% British & Irish. My results also tell me that I have 2% Southern European - 1% from each parent! Then I test on FTDNA Family Finder. What does FTDNA My Origins tell me? Among other things, I have 32% Southern European! If I run my raw data through WeGene, I'm French. If I run my data through DNA.land, I have significant Balkan ancestry. Only some of the GEDMATCH (K13) suggest SE English as my closest GD.

I've been accused of being a racist for claiming "purity". Nothing could be further from the truth. I've campaigned against racism for much of my life - marched the streets of London. No where have I ever claimed race, purity, or any sort of superiority for any such thing. I embrace genetics genealogy for it's networking of the global human family. I look for bridges, not divisions. Ironically, my Y haplogroup DOES prove some admixture, from Western Asia within the past two thousand years! So yes, it did happen! Way back, a traveller perhaps from the south-east edges of Persia, may well have fathered my paternal line in England. I say ironically though - because no atDNA test has found any Asian ancestry. Why should it? After all, such an event is likely to have been totally washed out from the autosomes by recombination within several generations!

I don't keep raising my ancestry here in East Anglia as any kind of bigoted claim of "purity". The English ARE an admixed population! I raise it as an example, a test, of autosomal testing for Ancestry. An awful lot of Americans, Canadians, Australians, and others with some mixed Western Eurasian ancestry are the paying customers of these DNA companies. They should know the truth about the validity or accuracy of these tests with reference to Western European populations. Just how well can they distinguish Europeans into little regional groups? Can this company, with it's new cutting edge chip, and perhaps heightened British references (is it really POBI?), do any better or is it just more hype, to get our hard earned money?

So, I have ordered this test with my eyes wide open. I will most certainly be posting my results here with great interest, and some skepticism.

sktibo
09-28-2016, 05:55 PM
I'd seen some pretty far out results on MyOrigins before, but yours really takes the cake. My own experience agrees with you in that none of my big three aDNA tests match my known ancestry (despite being very Canadian my family has traced nearly every line back to Europe). However, I remain hopeful because of the results I see on my cousin matches / DNA relatives. All of my tests have succeeded in matching me with other métis people, and sometimes my matches and I have more than one shared ancestor.
Do I think there is some truth to aDNA tests? Yes, but I also think the ethnicity prediction scores are not good for most folks. I'm not betting more than 199$ CAD on it, but I'm hopeful that this new test will display a greater degree of accuracy than those currently available.

J1 DYS388=13
09-28-2016, 06:06 PM
Your argument is a tautology. You use the speculative setting, which is by definition not very reliable, and then you complain that it is not reliable.

Anglecynn
09-28-2016, 06:06 PM
I think people are often misled by taking these values/components and the descriptions/names at face value when they don't understand much about them as you say, and probably have the idea that the fact that it's based on your genetics legitimises every interpretation or description of what it all really means. In an ideal world you could call these components 'Component1, Component2' etc and display where these values reach their peak, the average & range of those values for your listed population - even though it still doesn't describe what they actually are necessarily, it would be more informative & useful, and probably a lot harder to sell unfortunately.:\

Still, the data is the important thing.

anglesqueville
09-28-2016, 06:32 PM
I don't think that would be acceptable in France.

Who cares what is acceptable in France? Not many french. Not the french who are on here, in any case.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-28-2016, 06:47 PM
I have read on the U106 project group that Livedna have said that they intend, for a small fee, to allow people to submit other companies' test results and compare them with POBI references and other references. 23andMe, AncestryDNA and FTDNA's FamilyFinder were mentioned as a possible lower cost option?

Jean M
09-28-2016, 07:19 PM
Can this company, with it's new cutting edge chip, and perhaps heightened British references (is it really POBI?), do any better ...?

To judge by Debbie Kennett's results - yes. She posted on Facebook on the ISOGG page:


In my [Living DNA] preview my percentage of "British" comes out at 86.2% British Isles whereas I'm only around 56% at 23andMe and FTDNA and only 21% at Ancestry. it's the subregional results that are more interesting and these do broadly correspond with my known counties of origin.

So I must say, it is tempting.

Jean M
09-28-2016, 07:24 PM
You use the speculative setting, which is by definition not very reliable, and then you complain that it is not reliable.

The speculative setting produces the highest British and Irish percentage for me. The standard and conservative are much less accurate. The latter would be barely useful at all for an adoptee. Fortunately I have a paper pedigree, so I know that I'm 100% British. ;)

ADW_1981
09-28-2016, 07:27 PM
I love how it's "politically incorrect" that the indigenous groups of UK and France aren't even allowed to research their own genealogies without being called "racists". Something is backwards here and it needs to stop. "Love" is used in a sarcastic context here...

ArmandoR1b
09-28-2016, 09:25 PM
Who cares what is acceptable in France? Not many french. Not the french who are on here, in any case.

I like the attitude

ArmandoR1b
09-28-2016, 09:28 PM
The speculative setting produces the highest British and Irish percentage for me. The standard and conservative are much less accurate. The latter would be barely useful at all for an adoptee. Fortunately I have a paper pedigree, so I know that I'm 100% British. ;)
Most people in the 23andme forums have reported speculative to more closely match the genealogical record. That is the same for me.

razyn
09-28-2016, 10:24 PM
I have read on the U106 project group that Livedna have said that they intend, for a small fee, to allow people to submit other companies' test results and compare them with POBI references and other references. 23andMe, AncestryDNA and FTDNA's FamilyFinder were mentioned as a possible lower cost option?
If true, that would be of much more general interest than its application to U106 issues. Could someone who knows post about it here?

A Norfolk L-M20
09-28-2016, 10:29 PM
Your argument is a tautology. You use the speculative setting, which is by definition not very reliable, and then you complain that it is not reliable.

I appreciate your argument, and although others have answered, I'd like to directly. I actually do admire the 23andMe attitude rather more than FTDNA with their My Origins - which just quotes my ancestry as one fact - scattered all over Europe! 23andMe sort of exercise a grown ups talking to children attitude. Sure, their Conservative mode is far safer. It gets me as 98% European, including 60% NW European. That's I feel, impressive. However, they know full well, that their markets demand much more than that. Most US Americans for example, mainly of European phenotype have a pretty good idea that their ancestors were from Europe. It isn't going to make them dip their hands into their pockets.

Although "Speculative" is ..... lets face it, speculation alone, it is in practice, taken by testers as the common standard, the lingua franca to be compared to other companies. It is Speculative (and unphased) results, being bandied around as infallible truths that I find particularly scary.

I will repeat though, I'm a critic of taking atDNA testing for Ancestry as an infallible truth. That is NOT to say, that I don't feel that it has any valuable whatsoever. I love this development of genealogy. Just take it as one evidence - a clue, or pointer. Not as fact.

Jean M
09-28-2016, 10:43 PM
If true, that would be of much more general interest than its application to U106 issues. Could someone who knows post about it here?

From Debbie's review:


The Living DNA test is currently available as a new standalone test but they are also planning to accept imported data from other companies for a small fee. It is hoped that this feature will be available by the end of the year.

firemonkey
09-29-2016, 01:47 AM
The speculative setting produces the highest British and Irish percentage for me. The standard and conservative are much less accurate. The latter would be barely useful at all for an adoptee. Fortunately I have a paper pedigree, so I know that I'm 100% British. ;)

The conservative and standard modes give me as follows.

98.5%
European

Northwestern European
9.1%
British & Irish
62.1%
Broadly Northwestern European
27.3%
Broadly European




99.7%
European

Northwestern European
37.1%
British & Irish
0.4%
Scandinavian
56.1%
Broadly Northwestern European
6.2%
Broadly European

My known ancestry is 100% British. Even for allowing that the majority of my ancestry over the last 500 years is unknown, and some ancestors may have started off as non British/ but over time those lines have become seen to be British ,it seems unlikely my % of British and Irish is as low as 9.1%.
According to Doug McDonald :
It is essentially English, but with some Continental European compensating for
a substantial Irish.


I will be interested to see if Living Dna gives me more British than the 65% British and Irish 23andMe gives me in speculative mode, and what ancestry outside the British isles it gives.

Jessie
09-29-2016, 02:31 AM
Sounds really promising. I think I'll wait until they add more data from Ireland before I'd do this test. I'm already 100% British Isles on FTDNA so without information on Ireland I'm not sure what it would offer me.

I'll be very interested in getting people's feedback that do this test.

ADW_1981
09-29-2016, 04:47 AM
It would be nice if there was a non Uk/Ireland bucket as well. What bucket of ancestry would it go if you had substantial non-UK/Irish ancestry I wonder?

jpb
09-29-2016, 04:58 AM
There is. There are 80 regions:
https://www.livingdna.com/en-us/worldwide-ancestry-regions
21 of which are from the UK.

AnnieD
09-29-2016, 05:09 AM
Sounds really promising. I think I'll wait until they add more data from Ireland before I'd do this test. I'm already 100% British Isles on FTDNA so without information on Ireland I'm not sure what it would offer me.

100% British Isles! Wow! We'll stop calling A Norfolk L-M20 "pure" since he has 1 non-English relative and start calling you pure until the PC police show up. :lol: Frankly, I wonder how members with well-documented family trees and localized ancestry such as Jessie, FireMonkey & Norfolk L-M20 would not qualify for these British genetics studies (but I can't even figure out website links so no one ever consults with me about these matters - LOL!)

I wonder what the DNA Constellations method they apparently utilize per their website would make of an admixed, mostly British diaspora like me? ;) Has this methodology been discussed elsewhere on this forum? Sounds intriguing in how an algorithm apparently scans over 650,000 areas of DNA & analyzes how each piece of DNA is linked together.

Helgenes50
09-29-2016, 08:12 AM
Fortunately I have a paper pedigree, so I know that I'm 100% British. ;)

Yes, but the paper does not refuse the ink, a french expression ;)

Helgenes50
09-29-2016, 08:22 AM
There is. There are 80 regions:
https://www.livingdna.com/en-us/worldwide-ancestry-regions
21 of which are from the UK.

To cluster France with West Russia, Finland and Mordovia as Europe (Northwest), is not more serious than French German at 23andme, this is even worse

Shaikorth
09-29-2016, 10:19 AM
To cluster France with West Russia, Finland and Mordovia as Europe (Northwest), is not more serious than French German at 23andme, this is even worse

Looks like those Europe (X) are very poorly named umbrella terms for groupings of separate clusters, so there's a Mordovian cluster that is called "NW European" but the French shouldn't be getting it.

Jean M
09-29-2016, 10:22 AM
I will be interested to see if Living Dna gives me more British than the 65% British and Irish 23andMe gives me in speculative mode, and what ancestry outside the British isles it gives.

I have to admit that at 74.8%, 23andMe does give me a higher British and Irish percentage in speculative mode than you and A Norfolk L-M20. It was 100% immediately after they updated their ancestry settings by the use of customers in their own database. But I am told that this was because they must have been using me as one of their examples of a Briton with all grandparents British. So they were effectively telling British people in their database what they already knew.

Then they adjusted their settings to avoid over-use of said database samples. I have no idea what they did or why in any technical detail. But the situation ended up as you see it. Over-compensation to avoid drowning their US customers in British and Irish ancestry to the detriment of other elements of greater interest to them, I suppose. (But as I say, I'm in the dark on the how and why of it, so that is just a guess.)

I can imagine that 23andMe has more Anglophone customers than French and German, but we could expect quite a high percentage of French and German ancestry in their US and Canandian customers, overall. According to Debbie, 23andMe can't really tell the difference between French & German and British & Irish. So in that case, they are doing pretty well to place me at 74.8% British and Irish and just 2.5% French & German, 0.8% Scandinavian, and the rest mainly broadly Northwestern European.

I think A Norfolk L-M20 has it right. They are liable to have most difficulty telling the difference between someone from East Anglia (settled by Angles) and a person from northern France (settled by Franks) and a German.

Dubhthach
09-29-2016, 10:51 AM
There is. There are 80 regions:
https://www.livingdna.com/en-us/worldwide-ancestry-regions
21 of which are from the UK.

I might be missing something, but I only count 20 in the UK, the 21st one seems to cover Republic of Ireland

https://www.livingdna.com/sites/default/files/uploads/featured-blocks/image/ldna-map-gb.jpg

Helgenes50
09-29-2016, 10:59 AM
I can imagine that 23andMe has more Anglophone customers than French and German, but we could expect quite a high percentage of French and German ancestry in their US and Canandian customers, overall. According to Debbie, 23andMe can't really tell the difference between French & German and British & Irish. So in that case, they are doing pretty well to place me at 74.8% British and Irish and just 2.5% French & German, 0.8% Scandinavian, and the rest mainly broadly Northwestern European.

I think A Norfolk L-M20 has it right. They are liable to have most difficulty telling the difference between someone from East Anglia (settled by Angles) and a person from northern France (settled by Franks) and a German.

That depends where are the French from !

As Norman, here is what I get


99.8%
European

Northwestern European
40.8%
British & Irish
13.3%
French & German
0.9%
Scandinavian
0.1%
Finnish
34.9%
Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
1.5%
Iberian
2.7%
Broadly Southern European
0.9%
Eastern European
0.3%
Ashkenazi
4.3%
Broadly European

My first cousin ( 1/2 Briton 1/2 Norman)



99.9%
European

Northwestern European
46.8%
British & Irish
16.0%
French & German
1.7%
Scandinavian
28.0%
Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
2.7%
Iberian
1.6%
Broadly Southern European
3.0%
Broadly European
0.1%
Middle Eastern & North African
0.1%
North African
< 0.1%
Unassigned

An other one, 1/2 Briton 1/2 Norman


100%
European

Northwestern European
51.4%
British & Irish
9.5%
French & German
1.1%
Scandinavian
27.3%
Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
3.6%
Italian
1.9%
Iberian
0.8%
Sardinian
2.6%
Broadly Southern European
0.1%
Ashkenazi
1.7%
Broadly European

Shaikorth
09-29-2016, 11:19 AM
The folks behind the method have papers to their name which demonstrate they know the ins and outs of various ancestry composition methods:

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/07/28/066431
http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(16)00011-2

I'd trust them to have the technical side in order, though the white paper would be nice to see. Attaching misleading descriptions into clusters obviously can be a problem even when the data itself is correct.

Jean M
09-29-2016, 11:37 AM
I might be missing something, but I only count 20 in the UK, the 21st one seems to cover Republic of Ireland

Yes, that's right. It is a bit confusing, as Northern Ireland is lumped together with SW Scotland.

11859

Now I have put the labels on the map, I see another problem with their summaries of the regions. :biggrin1: Rheged should be mentioned in Cumbria, not North-West England (which appears to be Lancashire etc).

Jean M
09-29-2016, 12:15 PM
That depends where are the French from !

As Norman, here is what I get

99.8%
European

Northwestern European
40.8%
British & Irish
13.3%
French & German


Dear me. It's worse than the results for our East Anglian friend and his mother. But as I say in AJ:


Despite the high degree of genetic similarity among Europeans, there are still many places in the DNA code where one European might have a different sequence of bases from another European. By testing a huge array of these it is possible to find national clusters. These clusters overlap across neighbouring countries, as we should expect. Modern political boundaries have little time depth. A Briton today with a strong sense of national identity may be astonished to find herself grouped with the French or the Irish, while a Portuguese may be disconcerted to fall among Spanish samples. Yet that counts as a pretty good match. On average a pair of modern Europeans living in neighbouring populations share around 10-50 genetic common ancestors from the last 1500 years, and upwards of 500 genetic ancestors from the previous 1000 years.

Jessie
09-29-2016, 12:25 PM
100% British Isles! Wow! We'll stop calling A Norfolk L-M20 "pure" since he has 1 non-English relative and start calling you pure until the PC police show up. :lol: Frankly, I wonder how members with well-documented family trees and localized ancestry such as Jessie, FireMonkey & Norfolk L-M20 would not qualify for these British genetics studies (but I can't even figure out website links so no one ever consults with me about these matters - LOL!)

I wonder what the DNA Constellations method they apparently utilize per their website would make of an admixed, mostly British diaspora like me? ;) Has this methodology been discussed elsewhere on this forum? Sounds intriguing in how an algorithm apparently scans over 650,000 areas of DNA & analyzes how each piece of DNA is linked together.

100% British Isles was not really informative and I really would like if Irish ancestry can be broken down further. This test does sound promising but I would hope they would add the results of the Irish DNA Atlas when it finally comes out. Then we'd be getting somewhere. I'd even be happy if they could break Ireland down into different regions. It's frustrating just being 100% of something or nearly that in all the dna tests I've taken. :) The future does look hopeful though. I'm sure a lot of Americans would love to know what part of Scotland, England or Ireland they match.

Looking forward to seeing A Norfolk L-M20's results when they are ready.

ADW_1981
09-29-2016, 12:53 PM
To cluster France with West Russia, Finland and Mordovia as Europe (Northwest), is not more serious than French German at 23andme, this is even worse

That is absolutely terrible and needs to be reported to the developers.

Does anyone know if they are using the samples from the PoBI study? The UK groups look strikingly similar to those clusters.

ADW_1981
09-29-2016, 01:03 PM
That depends where are the French from !

As Norman, here is what I get


99.8%
European

Northwestern European
40.8%
British & Irish
13.3%
French & German
0.9%
Scandinavian
0.1%
Finnish
34.9%
Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
1.5%
Iberian
2.7%
Broadly Southern European
0.9%
Eastern European
0.3%
Ashkenazi
4.3%
Broadly European

My first cousin ( 1/2 Briton 1/2 Norman)



99.9%
European

Northwestern European
46.8%
British & Irish
16.0%
French & German
1.7%
Scandinavian
28.0%
Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
2.7%
Iberian
1.6%
Broadly Southern European
3.0%
Broadly European
0.1%
Middle Eastern & North African
0.1%
North African
< 0.1%
Unassigned

An other one, 1/2 Briton 1/2 Norman


100%
European

Northwestern European
51.4%
British & Irish
9.5%
French & German
1.1%
Scandinavian
27.3%
Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
3.6%
Italian
1.9%
Iberian
0.8%
Sardinian
2.6%
Broadly Southern European
0.1%
Ashkenazi
1.7%
Broadly European

The problem is the French & German has a low call rate in the 23andMe algorithm. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a problem with the French samples as well. People in NW France are similar to Brits/English, and the ones in south seem to be pulled to Spain, or Italy. Some of the science is admittedly above me, but there does seem to be a problem with that category from the developer notes.

anglesqueville
09-29-2016, 01:12 PM
The problem is the French & German has a low call rate in the 23andMe algorithm
The problem is not specific to 23&me: I'm 45% British Isles with ftdna, and my mother 62%!

Jessie
09-29-2016, 01:14 PM
I've actually went ahead and ordered. They say they will update as new information becomes available. It will be interesting to see if it breaks down my British Isles component a bit further.

Jean M
09-29-2016, 01:43 PM
I've just gone ahead.

Tolan
09-29-2016, 02:45 PM
I have to admit that at 74.8%, 23andMe does give me a higher British and Irish percentage in speculative mode than you and A Norfolk L-M20. It was 100% immediately after they updated their ancestry settings by the use of customers in their own database. But I am told that this was because they must have been using me as one of their examples of a Briton with all grandparents British. So they were effectively telling British people in their database what they already knew.

Then they adjusted their settings to avoid over-use of said database samples. I have no idea what they did or why in any technical detail. But the situation ended up as you see it. Over-compensation to avoid drowning their US customers in British and Irish ancestry to the detriment of other elements of greater interest to them, I suppose. (But as I say, I'm in the dark on the how and why of it, so that is just a guess.)

I can imagine that 23andMe has more Anglophone customers than French and German, but we could expect quite a high percentage of French and German ancestry in their US and Canandian customers, overall. According to Debbie, 23andMe can't really tell the difference between French & German and British & Irish. So in that case, they are doing pretty well to place me at 74.8% British and Irish and just 2.5% French & German, 0.8% Scandinavian, and the rest mainly broadly Northwestern European.

I think A Norfolk L-M20 has it right. They are liable to have most difficulty telling the difference between someone from East Anglia (settled by Angles) and a person from northern France (settled by Franks) and a German.

the result of a component also depends on the other components.

With 23andMe, British & Irish peaked among Scots and Irish. French & German, in South Germans and Swiss.
The ancestors originating between this two regions, fall roughly into one of these categories, depending on their distance.
Those who belong to equal distance, those who have the most Broadly NW.

If you would set as British & Irish reference population and Armorican French, the NorthWesterner French wouldn't have British & Irish left, or much less.

jpb
09-29-2016, 03:02 PM
Sorry, I meant the British Isles. On the website, they say they have 21.

Stephen1986
09-29-2016, 05:57 PM
I might order in the near future, but might wait until they allow uploads from other sites.

sktibo
09-29-2016, 07:13 PM
I might order in the near future, but might wait until they allow uploads from other sites.

C'mon... Join the party. You know you wanna

Amerijoe
09-29-2016, 09:38 PM
I've just gone ahead.

Jean, I'm following your lead. My 23andMe breakdown 90.8 British/Irish, 1.4 Scandinavian and the balance subsets of European. Gedmatch admixtures indicates some English. I don't know The Who of my paternal line, but just maybe the results may find the Where? Here's to good testing!:)

Celt_??
09-29-2016, 11:33 PM
Yea! Jean M is in !! Now I don't feel so iffy about my decision.

Although I am confident that my oldest known ancestor from 1738 in Virginia is of Great Britain origin, my recent Geno 2.0 NG gives my "first reference population" as GERMAN (42% Western & Central European, 16% Eastern European, 14% Scandinavian, 11% Great Britain & Ireland, 6% Southern European, 6% Finland & Siberia). And my second reference population as DUTCH (53% Western & Central European, 38% Great Britain & Ireland, 4% Asia Minor, 2% Jewish Diaspora). And I'm otherwise 1.3% Neanderthal.

Fortunately, I don't take these calculations too seriously because I - being R1b-U152+, L2+, L20+, Z367+ CTS9733+ - just KNOW that I am a descendant of the BELGAE :) - who maybe even swam across the Channel. ;)

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-30-2016, 05:12 AM
Ok, I've succumbed too. :)

sktibo
09-30-2016, 06:56 AM
Welcome to the club!

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-30-2016, 12:09 PM
Maybe we should have negotiated a group discount. ;)

Cinnamon orange
09-30-2016, 12:10 PM
I might order in the near future, but might wait until they allow uploads from other sites.

Good idea, would make it easier for those already tested elsewhere.

AJL
09-30-2016, 02:46 PM
Although "Speculative" is ..... lets face it, speculation alone, it is in practice, taken by testers as the common standard

I find their speculative mode to be almost spot-on, other than that they seem to assign Benelux haphazardly to "French and German," "Scandinavian," or "General Northern European." And the 0.1% they say is Yakut is almost certainly ~1% Caucasus (as Ancestry assigns it). So I am very much a fan of finding the most reasonable consensus of all test results, provided you have evidence to go with it.

I will probably get this test when the upload is available since over a third of my ancestry is from the areas covered by the test (though they don't have Cork, which is a shame, since I have links there).


Yes, that's right. It is a bit confusing, as Northern Ireland is lumped together with SW Scotland.

It sounds like they're trying to create a Dál Riada category. With yDNA, there's significant overlap between the Gaels of the north of Ireland and the west coast of Scotland to match the historical movement of Picts and Gaels. But the match should be more, I would guess, to the NW and central-west of Scotland (i.e. the Highlands, Hebrides, Argyll/Butte) rather than the southwest (Ayr and Galloway, which remained Brythonic a fair bit longer). It's really more strongly linked in the reverse sense: many of the Scots who came over with the Plantation were from Ayr.

Jean M
09-30-2016, 04:15 PM
Another blog review from someone who has "had a Skype conversation with Living DNA's David Nicholson and Hannah Morden to clarify some points." http://anglo-celtic-connections.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/more-on-living-dna-genetic-ancestry.html


It is worth pointing out that the test's British geographic origin breakdown separates out what was a large red eastern England blob in the People of the British Isles (POBI) results (right hand side map). That area, which covered much of England, is separated into Norfolk and Suffolk, the London area with Kent and Sussex, Hampshire and Dorset as well as distinct regions of Devon and Cornwall (left hand map). I was told that while the POBI database may well be available to other companies the specific analysis technique used by the company, which permitted the more detailed resolution, is exclusive.

The company has a long development to-do list including acquiring Irish data as a top priority, acquiring data from other populations worldwide and on ingestion of results transferred from other company analysis. Likely, results from such transfers will not be as detailed as from the new custom DNA chip Living DNA is using. For instance, AncestryDNA provides no results for Y or mitochondrial DNA. Nicholson believes the new chip will be adopted by other companies although each is likely to have several tens of thousands of custom SNPs depending on the application.

rdegnen
09-30-2016, 05:44 PM
I ordered also...

vettor
09-30-2016, 05:55 PM
Yes, that's right. It is a bit confusing, as Northern Ireland is lumped together with SW Scotland.

11859



History states ......the Gaels of SW scotland came originally from North-Ireland and clashed against the Picts of Eastern Scotland for centuries ......................before, as scottish historians state, they joined in 982AD to become the first scots

Jean M
09-30-2016, 06:01 PM
History states ......the Gaels of SW scotland came originally from North-Ireland and clashed against the Picts of Eastern Scotland for centuries ......................before, as scottish historians state, they joined... to become the first scots

Yes I know Vettor. I have books covering the history in great detail. I am not personally confused by the company lumping the two regions together as a genetic unit.

I was referring to the counting of the number of regions into which the company divides the UK. Taking a swift glance at the map, we might think that Northern Ireland and SW Scotland were counted separately, which would make 21 within the UK. But as Dubhthach rightly pointed out, it is 20 within the UK, and 21 within the whole British Isles.

If you look back at the posts I was responding to, all becomes clear.

CillKenny
09-30-2016, 06:56 PM
Ordered. All known ancestors from Southern Ireland. Father Wicklow and Wexford. Mother Tipperary and Kilkenny.

Anglecynn
09-30-2016, 09:39 PM
Ordered, will be interesting to see how it turns out, looks good.

rms2
09-30-2016, 11:35 PM
I am tempted to order, but I am kind of the typical colonial British Isles/Ireland blend, so I'm not sure what good this would do me. What I would like would be some British Isles y-dna matches (I already have a couple of those, however).

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-01-2016, 05:47 AM
Nearly all my ancestry over the last couple of hundred years (and I've identified a lot of people) have been from the Welsh borders apart from 2 individuals. I'm curious about how much ancestry might be linked to Wales and how much on the "English" side might be linked to other regions in Britain or elsewhere.

Dubhthach
10-01-2016, 10:28 AM
I am tempted to order, but I am kind of the typical colonial British Isles/Ireland blend, so I'm not sure what good this would do me. What I would like would be some British Isles y-dna matches (I already have a couple of those, however).

I'm probably gonna wait this out for moment, gonna have to try convince my parents to test AncestryDNA first ;) -- Given that on Ancestry I came back as 89% Irish, I doubt I'd get much refinement from this just let (my "Great Britain" component was a trace region at 2%) -- now if they incorporate the data from Irish DNA atlas when that's published, then I'll definitely order it.

Dubhthach
10-01-2016, 10:31 AM
It sounds like they're trying to create a Dál Riada category. With yDNA, there's significant overlap between the Gaels of the north of Ireland and the west coast of Scotland to match the historical movement of Picts and Gaels. But the match should be more, I would guess, to the NW and central-west of Scotland (i.e. the Highlands, Hebrides, Argyll/Butte) rather than the southwest (Ayr and Galloway, which remained Brythonic a fair bit longer). It's really more strongly linked in the reverse sense: many of the Scots who came over with the Plantation were from Ayr.

Going off this slide (on Pinterest) from a Irish DNA atlas talk, it would seem that Highland cluster could possibly end up to be intermediate between their Ireland cluster and SW-Scotland/Northern Ireland on a PCA graph.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ae/13/2a/ae132ae80e5b17ed3526cfbdcf8ce89a.jpg


Actually it would be interesting if they did release a PCA graph of various Isles sample populations they have.

alan
10-01-2016, 11:26 AM
Going off this slide (on Pinterest) from a Irish DNA atlas talk, it would seem that Highland cluster could possibly end up to be intermediate between their Ireland cluster and SW-Scotland/Northern Ireland on a PCA graph.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ae/13/2a/ae132ae80e5b17ed3526cfbdcf8ce89a.jpg


Actually it would be interesting if they did release a PCA graph of various Isles sample populations they have.

I think generally that would make sense given archaeology and history. For some reason all through archaeology, prehistory and early history the link between Ireland seems stronger with the part of Scotland further north (Argyll west Highlands, Inner Hebrides) than it is the south-west around Galloway etc. There are some connections with the area further south but they are shadowy and often debatable.

That of course suddenly changes with the plantation which was heavily from lowland SW Scotland.

So I would expect the highland/hebrides Scottish group to be closer linked to the native Irish than the SW Scottish group and the plantation group to be closely linked to the latter. That seems to be what is transpiring.

The key difference between the native Irish of Ulster and the SW of Scotland is neither the Vikings nor the Normans (except an extremely small area) ever made lasting settlements in Ulster while SW Scotland was close to the Roman militarised zone, saw a modest intrusion of Northumbrian Angles, had significant Viking/Gall-Gael presence (which gave Galloway its name) and Norman families were heavily planted in southern Scotland by the Scottish kings.

alan
10-01-2016, 11:37 AM
I find their speculative mode to be almost spot-on, other than that they seem to assign Benelux haphazardly to "French and German," "Scandinavian," or "General Northern European." And the 0.1% they say is Yakut is almost certainly ~1% Caucasus (as Ancestry assigns it). So I am very much a fan of finding the most reasonable consensus of all test results, provided you have evidence to go with it.

I will probably get this test when the upload is available since over a third of my ancestry is from the areas covered by the test (though they don't have Cork, which is a shame, since I have links there).



It sounds like they're trying to create a Dál Riada category. With yDNA, there's significant overlap between the Gaels of the north of Ireland and the west coast of Scotland to match the historical movement of Picts and Gaels. But the match should be more, I would guess, to the NW and central-west of Scotland (i.e. the Highlands, Hebrides, Argyll/Butte) rather than the southwest (Ayr and Galloway, which remained Brythonic a fair bit longer). It's really more strongly linked in the reverse sense: many of the Scots who came over with the Plantation were from Ayr.

any cluster that specifically links the south of Scotland to north-east Ireland is likely 90-odd% down to the 17th century plantation. Prior to that the links between the north of Ireland and Scotland seem to have predominantly been with the Argyll and Inner Hebrides area not what I would call SW Scotland (Scotland south of the Clyde as far as the Soloway Firth and Border).

Shaikorth
10-01-2016, 12:56 PM
Going off this slide (on Pinterest) from a Irish DNA atlas talk, it would seem that Highland cluster could possibly end up to be intermediate between their Ireland cluster and SW-Scotland/Northern Ireland on a PCA graph.




Actually it would be interesting if they did release a PCA graph of various Isles sample populations they have.

Would most likely look like this:

http://oi65.tinypic.com/r1k4d3.jpg

Jean M
10-01-2016, 01:25 PM
A couple years ago I searched through the International Genealogical Index's of births for Great Britain looking for

The Norfolk Millams presumably took their surname from Mileham, Norfolk (Meleham in Domesday Book, meaning "homestead or village with a mill"). http://www.gazetteer.org.uk/view.php?placeid=30418

The Cumbrian Millams may have taken their surname from Millom, Cumbria (Millum c. 1180, meaning "Place at the mills"). http://www.gazetteer.org.uk/view.php?placeid=30574

JonikW
10-01-2016, 01:59 PM
I've ordered too. Will be interesting to see how this compares with my known paper trail, which is mostly English (two regions in particular) and south Welsh. I'll also be curious to discover whether the Y test goes downstream of my Britain's DNA result. I have also contacted them to ask this. I will post here if I hear back.

Celt_??
10-01-2016, 02:07 PM
@Jean M - Thank you very much for the information and those links. I was hoping to contact you personally at some point about my project!! Would you hazard a guess which county might be more likely to have R1b-U152>L2>L20 individuals? Would contacting the county genealogy society be the best way to identify "Milam" families who might be willing to have genetic testing. I have emailed with the Genealogy Society for Cumbria previously and learned that they could put me in touch with a local genealogist.

Given my Belgae fantasy, it is ironic that there is a hamlet in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region of France named Millam. It is equi-distance between Calais and Dunkirk.

11937

Jean M
10-01-2016, 02:46 PM
@Jean M - Thank you very much for the information and those links. I was hoping to contact you personally at some point about my project!! Would you hazard a guess which county might be more likely to have R1b-U152>L2>L20 individuals? Would contacting the county genealogy society be the best way to identify "Milam" families who might be willing to have genetic testing. I have emailed with the Genealogy Society for Cumbria previously and learned that they could put me in touch with a local genealogist.

As far as I know, R1b-U152 is a bit higher in Norfolk than Cumbria, but it is not so striking a difference as to rule out Cumbria. So the Living DNA test looks like a good option for you, as a possible step on the way to locating Y-DNA matches. Good luck with that!

Dubhthach
10-01-2016, 03:01 PM
I think generally that would make sense given archaeology and history. For some reason all through archaeology, prehistory and early history the link between Ireland seems stronger with the part of Scotland further north (Argyll west Highlands, Inner Hebrides) than it is the south-west around Galloway etc. There are some connections with the area further south but they are shadowy and often debatable.

That of course suddenly changes with the plantation which was heavily from lowland SW Scotland.

So I would expect the highland/hebrides Scottish group to be closer linked to the native Irish than the SW Scottish group and the plantation group to be closely linked to the latter. That seems to be what is transpiring.

The key difference between the native Irish of Ulster and the SW of Scotland is neither the Vikings nor the Normans (except an extremely small area) ever made lasting settlements in Ulster while SW Scotland was close to the Roman militarised zone, saw a modest intrusion of Northumbrian Angles, had significant Viking/Gall-Gael presence (which gave Galloway its name) and Norman families were heavily planted in southern Scotland by the Scottish kings.

It's like the Hooded Crow/Carrion Crow distinction ;) The Highland barrier appears to have affected both language and birdlife a like

https://www.rspb.org.uk/images/cache/hoodedcrow_tcm9-22352_v2.jpg

vs.

https://www.rspb.org.uk/images/cache/carrioncrow_tcm9-22346_v2.gif

My feeling is that sea links allowed Argyll/Inner Hebrides to coalesce into a dialect chain/contact culture with Ireland, whereas it was lot easier for groups in Lowlands to remain in contact with Brythonic groups to south etc.

The other Irish DNA slide was interesting, note how diverged the two Ulster clusters are, one of them could almost be classed as "Ultra Irish" which make sense given medieval history of Ulster and it been the most Gaelic part of Ireland until after 1607

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/IDNA-Atlas01.jpg

What I do wonder is given that the Planter group in Ulster would be mixed English (Anglican) and Scottish (Presbytrian) in origin, it's possible that this has over time pulled the group closer to Lowlands/England clusters, compared to Scottish cluster that is. After all there are plenty of Scottish Gaelic surnames among modern day Unionists so it's not purely a case of Lowlanders.

Dubhthach
10-01-2016, 03:04 PM
Would most likely look like this:

http://oi65.tinypic.com/r1k4d3.jpg

More like this, as I believe following PCA was generated using "People of British Isles" dataset mixed with Irish DNA atlas dataset, the Irish sample actually helps differenate the Scottish out more. compare to POBI chart graph above.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ae/13/2a/ae132ae80e5b17ed3526cfbdcf8ce89a.jpg

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/IDNA-Atlas01.jpg

jortita
10-01-2016, 03:46 PM
I am not sure how useful it would be for people with no British ancestry. I am interested by their large number of ancestry regions including for south and east Asia, which is what my ancestry is composed of

Shaikorth
10-01-2016, 05:22 PM
More like this, as I believe following PCA was generated using "People of British Isles" dataset mixed with Irish DNA atlas dataset, the Irish sample actually helps differenate the Scottish out more. compare to POBI chart graph above.


Right, I didn't notice they had an Irish sample besides the POBI ones. Should look like that if it's large enough.

avalon
10-01-2016, 06:28 PM
More like this, as I believe following PCA was generated using "People of British Isles" dataset mixed with Irish DNA atlas dataset, the Irish sample actually helps differenate the Scottish out more. compare to POBI chart graph above.


It looks like the Irish DNA Atlas haven't used the entire POBI dataset. From that preliminary PCA they appear to have filtered out some of the PoBI English sub clusters such as Cornwall, Devon and Cumbria/Northumbria. Or maybe these sub clusters were so close to the main English one there was no point in separating them out. They have labelled a "borders" cluster though which I guess is the Welsh borders.

Jean M
10-01-2016, 09:07 PM
I am not sure how useful it would be for people with no British ancestry. I am interested by their large number of ancestry regions including for south and east Asia, which is what my ancestry is composed of

It certainly looks better than 23andMe for South Asia. 23andMe just has the one category - South Asia. Living DNA has:

Asia (South)

•Balochistan •Sindh •Pashtun •Kalash •Burusho •Indian subcontinent •Southern Central Asia

Asia (East)

•Southeast Asia •South China •North China •Southwest China •Japan and Korea•Northeast China •Mongolia and Manchuria •Siberia

23andMe has
East Asian:

Japanese
Korean
Yakut
Mongolian
Chinese
Broadly East Asian


Southeast Asian

jortita
10-01-2016, 10:11 PM
It certainly looks better than 23andMe for South Asia. 23andMe just has the one category - South Asia. Living DNA has:

Asia (South)

•Balochistan •Sindh •Pashtun •Kalash •Burusho •Indian subcontinent •Southern Central Asia

Asia (East)

•Southeast Asia •South China •North China •Southwest China •Japan and Korea•Northeast China •Mongolia and Manchuria •Siberia

23andMe has
East Asian:

Japanese
Korean
Yakut
Mongolian
Chinese
Broadly East Asian


Southeast Asian

I agree, since I am based in Thailand, I am unable to test with 23andme, so this appears a good alternative as living dna can be shipped anywhere in the world

JonikW
10-02-2016, 01:50 PM
As a bit of fun to one day compare with my results I have taken the company's UK geographic categories to do a paper trail estimate of what they will show for me. I have used great, great, great grandparents' birthplaces at a minimum but on nearly all lines have reflected deeper grounding in a particular place. Incidentally, my mother was Welsh but it turns out some of her family moved there in the 19th century from Wiltshire. Those people hadn't moved for generations before that.

S. Wales/S. Wales border 34.4%
South Central England (primarily Wilts in my case) 31%
South England (primarily Dorset in my case) 9.4%
S. East England 5%
Devon 4.5%
N. Yorkshire/S. Yorks 4.5%
S. W. Scotland 4.1%
Central England 4%
Cornwall 3.1%

Heber
10-02-2016, 04:07 PM
I visited Living DNA at their base in Frome and used the opportunity to visit Stonehenge, Amsbury, Boscombe, Durrington Walls which is on the route. I met with David Nicholson Managing Director and Mary Dy Operations Manager. We discussed how they could improve their resolution for Irish samples. I was one of the first contributors to the Irish DNA Atlas and I contributed my sample to their reference set. I would recommend that other IDA testers also contact Living DNA regarding their sample. I believe the Genetic Genealogy community and citizen scientists can play a role in creating reference datasets and cultural, surname and geographic analysis. I can not add further to Debbie's extensive review of the product except to note that the mouth swab kit uses a "quick drying" technique which avoids shipping liquids in the post. They will attend BTOP and GGI2016 in the RDS in Dublin October 21st - 23rd so please stop by and say hello.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?sclient=tablet-gws&site=&source=hp&q=ggi2016&oq=ggi2016&gs_l=tablet-gws.3..35i39k1l2j0i10k1.2040.7539.0.8164.8.8.0.0.0 .0.181.909.2j6.8.0....0...1c.1.64.tablet-gws..0.7.809.0..0j0i131k1j0i67k1.WEHcoz7hp4E#imgrc =qe_GKMUCqj4B-M%3A

They also kindly agreed to sponsor our dinner for the Speakers and ISOGG volunteers day out on Monday 24th.

http://ggi2013.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/the-isogg-day-out-is-back-again.html

I will post some pictures of my trip below.

http://pin.it/rBQ6nmv

David, Gerard, Mary
11959

Living DNA
11964

Call Ghost Busters
11965

Mystical Stonehenge under a cloud
11966

Stonehenge
11967

vettor
10-02-2016, 05:40 PM
Yes I know Vettor. I have books covering the history in great detail. I am not personally confused by the company lumping the two regions together as a genetic unit.

I was referring to the counting of the number of regions into which the company divides the UK. Taking a swift glance at the map, we might think that Northern Ireland and SW Scotland were counted separately, which would make 21 within the UK. But as Dubhthach rightly pointed out, it is 20 within the UK, and 21 within the whole British Isles.

If you look back at the posts I was responding to, all becomes clear.

Are there sub-splits of these 21 as the map on the link below looks like they split Italy into 3............when there should be only 2

http://cruwys.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/living-dna-new-genetic-ancestry-test.html

JonikW
10-02-2016, 06:00 PM
Are there sub-splits of these 21 as the map on the link below looks like they split Italy into 3............when there should be only 2

http://cruwys.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/living-dna-new-genetic-ancestry-test.html

Interesting question. The split is clear for the UK although I don't know about elsewhere. As far as I remember the Pobi study barely touched on Italy, with just some samples from the north. Scandinavia and the northern Atlantic coast were better covered.

JonikW
10-02-2016, 06:11 PM
Are there sub-splits of these 21 as the map on the link below looks like they split Italy into 3............when there should be only 2

http://cruwys.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/living-dna-new-genetic-ancestry-test.html

Oh, and the UK split seems to use modern counties to some extent, although this appears arbitrary in a way (while presumably grounded in the DNA). For example large parts of their South Central England and South England have a shared West Country culture, dialect and accent and might be expected to be a bit more Celtic than other parts of their South Central England, which look to be in what was once the edge of Anglian territory

MatAust21
10-02-2016, 08:01 PM
Are there sub-splits of these 21 as the map on the link below looks like they split Italy into 3............when there should be only 2

http://cruwys.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/living-dna-new-genetic-ancestry-test.html

According to their site (https://www.livingdna.com/en-us/worldwide-ancestry-regions), they break the Italian peninsula in 3 regions: North Italy, South Italy and Tuscany (Which probably means central Italy).

There is also a separate Sardinia reference.

10-05-2016, 11:50 AM
Anybody living in Continental Europe having problems ordering this? :behindsofa:

Judith
10-05-2016, 08:34 PM
Given my ancestry I expect that they will identify my Cheshire and Welsh borders part since that was a tribal area in the PoBI but I suspect that they will get the South Derbyshire very wrong and I will be called Saxon -like and difficult to place.
I will wait until you first testers critique your results.

George Chandler
10-05-2016, 10:19 PM
Unlike the rest of you chronic genetic junkies I will show restraint and wait...I think...maybe.

Looking forward to one day seeing a timeline bar that you cab drag in 500 year blocks that reveal the "suspected" ancestry for that period.

George

Celt_??
10-05-2016, 11:55 PM
Deleted. Forgot to include quote. I will get the hang of this >:(

10-07-2016, 10:51 AM
I just ordered, :P never thought I would be addicted to DNA, LOL
had to order manually by a phone call as website still broken to order from Europe.

sktibo
10-07-2016, 05:14 PM
I just ordered, :P never thought I would be addicted to DNA, LOL
had to order manually by a phone call as website still broken to order from Europe.

We gotta get our fix, man. DNA junkie life ain't easy.

CelticGerman
10-07-2016, 05:54 PM
I had been thinking for the past several years that there needs to be a DNA test for specific regions. I can foresee some problems though such as a huge slowdown in testing with 23andme, AncestryDNA, and FTDNA by people from the British Isles that would report their results so we can learn how good or bad the tests are for them even though I knew FTDNA was the worst for Europeans and the results for firemonkey and A Norfolk L-M20 are a few of many anecdotal cases that show that to be the case it would have been nice to see a lot more people like them posting and complaining about the tests.

I also hope that people that don't have ancestry from the British Isles but do have ancestry from the continent such as France, Germany, and the Scandinavians countries also get tested to see what their results are.

I am also very interested in the results of people that have all of their documented ancestry from Ireland.

I have North German ancestry above all. David W. told me one or two years ago I must have some recent ancestry from Western Britain (I'm not aware of). I have ordered. Let's wait and see. It's a pity they did not divide Germany in different regions, at least North and South.

A Norfolk L-M20
10-07-2016, 05:58 PM
We gotta get our fix, man. DNA junkie life ain't easy.

Tell me! My sixth commissioned test this year (plus two paid analysis). And I'm a skeptic (about taking the results of atDNA tests for ancestry too seriously - but maybe this one will convince me otherwise). Two 23andMe tests, FT-DNA Family Finder, FT-DNA Y111, FT-DNA Big Y, analysis of Y-DNA at Yfull and FullGenomes. Now Living DNA. DNA Junkie.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-07-2016, 06:31 PM
Tell me! My sixth commissioned test this year (plus two paid analysis). And I'm a skeptic (about taking the results of atDNA tests for ancestry too seriously - but maybe this one will convince me otherwise). Two 23andMe tests, FT-DNA Family Finder, FT-DNA Y111, FT-DNA Big Y, analysis of Y-DNA at Yfull and FullGenomes. Now Living DNA. DNA Junkie.

When you say "paid analysis" do you mean for interpretation of your results?
I must admit a lot of this stuff is beyond my understanding and I've been considering looking for professional help. :)

A Norfolk L-M20
10-07-2016, 10:50 PM
For YFull and FullGenome to analyse the raw data from my Big Y test, and to maximise the SNP range of my Y-DNA. I have had an awful lot of help compiling the SNPs from the manager of my Y haplogroup project manager. I wouldn't spend money in any analysis of any atDNA test.

sktibo
10-07-2016, 11:23 PM
Tell me! My sixth commissioned test this year (plus two paid analysis). And I'm a skeptic (about taking the results of atDNA tests for ancestry too seriously - but maybe this one will convince me otherwise). Two 23andMe tests, FT-DNA Family Finder, FT-DNA Y111, FT-DNA Big Y, analysis of Y-DNA at Yfull and FullGenomes. Now Living DNA. DNA Junkie.

You may hold the champonship title, good sir. So far I'm at one 23andme test, one ftdna transfer, and one ancestrydna test. This livingDNA will be my fourth. I'm particularly excited about it, as i'm hoping it will tell me my mtdna and ydna haplogroups... 23andme only tells me r1b and t2b.. nothing very defined. I went and filled in all the gaps possible in my ancestry family tree.. so i'll be able to see how close the new test gets to the old paper trail. Need something else to do now that I've done that though... and the test hasn't even arrived in the mail yet!

10-08-2016, 08:44 AM
Yes im also interested in the resolution of the Haplotypes, and how I ended up to be R1a1a...

sktibo
10-08-2016, 09:46 PM
Yes im also interested in the resolution of the Haplotypes, and how I ended up to be R1a1a...

A quick google search indicated that R1a groups are more frequent in Scotland, but they look like they are nearly non-existent in Wales. I'm curious about this as well. Hopefully it'll either correct or further refine your haplogroup. IIRC I read somewhere once that the 23andme haplogroups are sometimes off.. I'm assuming you got the R1a1a from 23?

10-09-2016, 07:59 AM
A quick google search indicated that R1a groups are more frequent in Scotland, but they look like they are nearly non-existent in Wales. I'm curious about this as well. Hopefully it'll either correct or further refine your haplogroup. IIRC I read somewhere once that the 23andme haplogroups are sometimes off.. I'm assuming you got the R1a1a from 23?
Hi Sktibo,
Yes I got this information from 23andme.

A Norfolk L-M20
10-09-2016, 01:46 PM
If I reference the results to my paper trail at Generation 5 (great great grandparents all named with birthplace) That would be:

14 East Anglian born g.g grandparents
1 Oxfordshire born g.g grandparent
1 London born g.g grandparent.

or

88% East Anglian
6% South Central England / South England
6% South East England

At Generation 6 (g.g.g grandparents) I have three missing biological fathers of illegitimate ancestors, but the chances are they were most likely all Norfolk. I've labelled them though as an unknown percentage:

24 East Anglian born g.g.g grandparents
3 Oxfordshire born g.g.g grandparents
1 Lincolnshire born g.g.g grandparent
3 unknowns (3 fathers of illeg. in Norfolk. 1 in London (surname Shawers) of unknown birthplace)

or

75% East Anglian
9% South Central England / South England
3% Lincolnshire / Central England.
9% Unknown (but most likely some more East Anglian within this percentage, maybe 6%).

The next generation has only 76% names for it. After that it dissolves. However, all recorded ancestry on my mothers side, is East Anglian, while on my father's side, although the majority is again, East Anglian, he has admixture from South/South Central England, and Lincolnshire/Central England.

All paper ancestry (207 direct ancestors) English. It'll be interesting to see what this test produces against my recorded genealogy.

Jessie
10-11-2016, 11:29 AM
Living DNA are actually looking for Irish samples. I've sent in my mother's 23andMe results as she fulfilled all the criteria of having all ancestry from one county. Debbie Cruwys Kennett put a link on FB.

https://www.livingdna.com/en-au/irish-dna-research-project

jortita
10-11-2016, 12:24 PM
I am neither British nor European, but have just ordered it today. Not sure whether living dna can also give me my recent ancestry results along with deep ancestry as being in Thailand, I cannot get 23andMe

A Norfolk L-M20
10-11-2016, 10:07 PM
LivingDNA announced today on their Facebook page, that the first batch of customer kits are ready to be sent.

sktibo
10-11-2016, 11:08 PM
LivingDNA announced today on their Facebook page, that the first batch of customer kits are ready to be sent.

I'm guessing many of us here on this thread will be in the first batch, well, hoping anyhow

Jean M
10-12-2016, 12:03 AM
Living DNA are actually looking for Irish samples.

I see that they say



Gerard Corcoran, regional director for ISOGG in Ireland, and other leading genealogists including Dr Maurice Gleeson are helping with local administration and support for our Irish DNA Research Project. These partnerships extend our collaboration with leading academic and scientific experts ensuring the most robust processes are followed.

Excellent news.

Jean M
10-12-2016, 10:27 AM
I'm guessing many of us here on this thread will be in the first batch, well, hoping anyhow

My kit has arrived. The firm's headquarters is not all that far from where I live, which explains the rapid delivery.

[Added] But I can do nothing with it yet. Online activation is not yet open. It will open from Friday 14th October - Midday BST.

J1 DYS388=13
10-12-2016, 11:57 AM
My kit has arrived. The firm's headquarters is not all that far from where I live, which explains the rapid delivery.

[Added] But I can do nothing with it yet. Online activation is not yet open. It will open from Friday 14th October - Midday BST.

Same here. I live in Dorchester now.

A Norfolk L-M20
10-12-2016, 03:01 PM
And same here, I live in Norwich. Roll on Friday lunchtime...

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7576/29650723863_12b8442438_c.jpg

One thing that I noted, the kit came from Somerset, and is returned to Somerset. Which suggests they will pile them before forwarding to their lab in Denmark?

ADW_1981
10-12-2016, 03:41 PM
If they are still gathering Irish samples for reference, I hope that doesn't mean results will be delayed....

A Norfolk L-M20
10-12-2016, 03:57 PM
If they are still gathering Irish samples for reference, I hope that doesn't mean results will be delayed....

I do remember seeing somewhere, that results would be updated with future enhancements. I can't see that slowing down the launch train.

sktibo
10-12-2016, 05:40 PM
Mine's on it's way then.. iirc I ordered the same day as Norfolk.. thank you for the heads up, I'll be checking the mail religiously. Can't let the SO find out about the DNA kit addiction:)

razyn
10-12-2016, 05:54 PM
Can't let the SO find out about the DNA kit addiction:)
It makes excellent pillow talk. If my SO (aka wife of 52 years) is restless, and it is late, I just tell her about our latest aDNA discoveries. And she's out like a light within three to five minutes. No expensive pharmaceuticals, repeat as often as needed, easily worth the modest cost of the addiction.

sktibo
10-12-2016, 05:59 PM
It makes excellent pillow talk. If my SO (aka wife of 52 years) is restless, and it is late, I just tell her about our latest aDNA discoveries. And she's out like a light within three to five minutes. No expensive pharmaceuticals, repeat as often as needed, easily worth the modest cost of the addiction.

Bahaha
I bet this would work on her. I'll just talk excessively about it until she regrets finding it or falls asleep

RobertCasey
10-12-2016, 06:35 PM
Yes im also interested in the resolution of the Haplotypes, and how I ended up to be R1a1a...

I think that if LivingDNA looked at the robust YSNP haplotrees at FTDNA, ISOGG and BigTree (Alex Williamson for P312), they could really come up with a very robust entry offering for YSNP testing. This is this first Array chip test that has been produced since the flood of NGS test results. I hope they do not depend on academic papers and databases of older private YSNPs that have never created a branch to date.

The geographic origins portion really does not apply to me - even though I have 87.5 % English origins. Since all of my ancestors are still America in the late 1700s, my English ancestry probably comes from all over England. Family Finder has my summary as British Isles (61 %), Scandinavia (22 %), West and Central Euroupe (13 %), Southern Europe (2 %) and Eastern Europe (1 %). I trust the surnames of my pedigree chart much more: 89 % British Isles (including 1.5 % Irish), 6.5% German, 3 % Dutch and 1.5 % French. I have no Scandinavia lines at all or any Southern or Eastern Europe origins. I do have 1.5 % Olliff ancestry but this surname is very common in England. Of course, many English people have Scandinavian ancestry due to Viking incursions and the Scandinavian surnames were probably converted to English surnames for obvious reasons.

Once the test results come in, please provide a link to the file showing the list of YSNPs tested so it can be compared to major YSNP haplotrees. If they actually utilized genetic genealogy haplotrees for their YSNP selection, this could be good test to start YSNP testing (a little expensive for that alone). However, NatGeo and CROMO2 provided a lot branches in the past - but NGS testing has weeded out most of the YSNPs in these tests as being less relevant for genetic genealogy - hopefully most of these were replaced with known branches vs. academic studies that are more focused on anthropology vs. genetic genealogy.

A Norfolk L-M20
10-12-2016, 06:45 PM
I think that if LivingDNA looked at the robust YSNP haplotrees at FTDNA, ISOGG and BigTree (Alex Williamson for P312), they could really come up with a very robust entry offering for YSNP testing. This is this first Array chip test that has been produced since the flood of NGS test results. I hope they do not depend on academic papers and databases of older private YSNPs that have never created a branch to date.

The geographic origins portion really does not apply to me - even though I have 88 % English origins. Since all of my ancestors are still America in the late 1700s, my English ancestry probably comes from all over England. Family Finder has my summary as British Isles (61 %), Scandinavia (22 %), West and Central Euroupe (13 %), Southern Europe (2 %) and Eastern Europe (1 %). I trust the surnames of my pedigree chart much more: 88 % British Isles (including 1.5 % Irish), 6.5% German, 3 % Dutch and 1.5 % French. I have no Scandinavia lines at all or any Southern or Eastern Europe origins. I do have 1.5 % Olliff ancestry but this surname is very common in England.

Once the test results come in, please provide a link to the file showing the list of YSNPs tested so it can be compared to major YSNP haplotrees. If they actually utilized genetic genealogy haplotrees for their YSNP selection, this could be good test to start YSNP testing (a little expensive for that alone). However, NatGeo and CROMO2 provided a lot branches in the past - but NGS testing has weeded out most of the YSNPs in these tests as being less relevant for genetic genealogy - hopefully most of these were replaced with known branches vs. academic studies that are more focused on anthropology vs. genetic genealogy.

My understanding is that Living DNA are testing for over 20,000 SNPs on the Y-DNA, as opposed for example, to the 23andMe V4 chip which presently tests for only 2,329 SNPs on the Y. I also hope that they use nomenclature something closer to ISOGG 2016 (rather than 2009 as 23andMe still uses), and that they don't use dumbed down, very outdated haplogroup histories and origins. We shall see in the next few months.

RobertCasey
10-12-2016, 06:51 PM
My understanding is that Living DNA are testing for over 20,000 SNPs on the Y-DNA, as opposed for example, to the 23andMe V4 chip which presently tests for only 2,329 SNPs on the Y. I also hope that they use nomenclature something closer to ISOGG 2016 (rather than 2009 as 23andMe still uses), and that they don't use dumbed down, very outdated haplogroup histories and origins. We shall see in the next few months.

23andMe is not a relevant YSNP test (they left R1b-P312 which was a major branch that had been available for years). LivingDNA has around 22,500 YSNPs and NatGeo has 20,000 and CROMO2 just under 20,000 (from memory). I just hope that they trimmed out all the non-relevant YSNPs in these tests and replaced them with the branches discovered via NGS testing over the last two years.

A Norfolk L-M20
10-12-2016, 07:01 PM
I recently had a guy of Pakistani ancestry that read his out-dated 23andMe Y haplogroup history very negatively. It upset him. He had a thing about his high caste status that the 23andMe contradicted on their Y history. As he read it, one of his grandmothers along the Y line must have had illicit relations with a low caste from Southern India - that is what the 23andMe history, based on out dated information, suggested to him. I tried to get him out of it by pointing out that most testers with his clade actually came from Saudi, Kuwait, Lebanon, etc. I pointed to ancient DNA with his clade from Armenia. But no, 23andMe suggested that his Y line was from Southern India, and he was gutted, destroyed. At the end of the day, I don't really have any credence with caste status, so I gave up trying to point to the up to date testing, I did try, but I have my limits. However, it shows how out-dated information can have an impact.

But I'm drifting off subject! Apologies.

C J Wyatt III
10-12-2016, 07:20 PM
I recently had a guy of Pakistani ancestry that read his out-dated 23andMe Y haplogroup history very negatively. It upset him. He had a thing about his high caste status that the 23andMe contradicted on their Y history. As he read it, one of his grandmothers along the Y line must have had illicit relations with a low caste from Southern India - that is what the 23andMe history, based on out dated information, suggested to him. I tried to get him out of it by pointing out that most testers with his clade actually came from Saudi, Kuwait, Lebanon, etc. I pointed to ancient DNA with his clade from Armenia. But no, 23andMe suggested that his Y line was from Southern India, and he was gutted, destroyed. At the end of the day, I don't really have any credence with caste status, so I gave up trying to point to the up to date testing, I did try, but I have my limits. However, it shows how out-dated information can have an impact.

But I'm drifting off subject! Apologies.

No one should DNA test if there is any possible outcome which they can't handle. At least that is my opinion.

Jack

ArmandoR1b
10-12-2016, 08:23 PM
23andMe is not a relevant YSNP test (they left R1b-P312 which was a major branch that had been available for years). LivingDNA has around 22,500 YSNPs and NatGeo has 20,000 and CROMO2 just under 20,000 (from memory). I just hope that they trimmed out all the non-relevant YSNPs in these tests and replaced them with the branches discovered via NGS testing over the last two years.

NatGeo has less than 13,700 if you don't count the synonymous SNPs. If you count the synonymous SNPs, which shouldn't be counted, the count is less than 15,700. Then if you were to trim all of the SNPs that don't have the correct alleles reported that number drops by almost 2,600 SNPs. So effectively NatGeo has less than 11,100 usable SNPs. If the 22,500 Y-SNPS that LivingDNA has are all usable then it has more than twice the amount of NatGeo.

ArmandoR1b
10-12-2016, 08:28 PM
No one should DNA test if there is any possible outcome which they can't handle. At least that is my opinion.

Jack

Although that is true, the DNA companies should also be updating their origin stories to match modern knowledge and let people know that Y-DNA haplogroups are not limited to certain ethnicities or regions if they aren't. Additionally, the Y-DNA testing at 23andme has needed an update for a very long time but they are very slow in getting that done. Neither of those are the fault of the consumer.

sktibo
10-12-2016, 09:30 PM
No one should DNA test if there is any possible outcome which they can't handle. At least that is my opinion.

Jack

I'm guilty of this, but ultimately I'm happy with the tests I've taken. Each DNA test has helped me learn more about my ancestry despite me not loving the results. I'm betting this upcoming livingDNA test could give me results I don't like, but I'm confident that once I get over that (if that is the case) I'll be glad I took it. So far no buyer's remorse.

rod
10-12-2016, 10:15 PM
23andMe is not a relevant YSNP test (they left R1b-P312 which was a major branch that had been available for years).
Worse! They didn't leave it out - they removed it from the V3 chip. My V2 test identified me as P312 and I have some P312 matches, but none since the arrival of the V3 (and V4) chips.

GoldenHind
10-12-2016, 10:31 PM
Worse! They didn't leave it out - they removed it from the V3 chip. My V2 test identified me as P312 and I have some P312 matches, but none since the arrival of the V3 (and V4) chips.

The original Genographic test also failed to include P312, and I believe I am correct in saying it is not included in the Geno 2 test either. How a DNA test can fail to include what is one of the most common SNPs in Europe and claim to be comprehensive is beyond me.

firemonkey
10-13-2016, 05:48 AM
Well that's me ****ed. Hasty per usual and typically brain dead. Went to do the swab. Followed the instructions to put label on lid first and then do swab. As I unscrewed the lid the label started to peel off the ridged lid. Must have closed the lid by mistake as now can't unscrew it to do swab. My advice do mouth swab first. Close the lid and attach label. Have contacted them. That'll teach me to be hasty.

estevard
10-13-2016, 06:40 AM
The original Genographic test also failed to include P312, and I believe I am correct in saying it is not included in the Geno 2 test either. ...

I, too, believe you are correct: my Geno 2.0 results alphabetically sorted include:

P305+
P310+
PAGES00026+
PAGES00081+
PAGES00083+
PF1016+
PF1029+

They did however, pick up L21 and L513, which at least for me compensated for the lack of P312.

firemonkey
10-13-2016, 07:01 AM
£120 probably down the drain . My fault. Lesson don't take instructions literally. Should have done the swab.Put it back in container, then closed the lid and attached the label.

sktibo
10-13-2016, 08:52 AM
£120 probably down the drain . My fault. Lesson don't take instructions literally. Should have done the swab.Put it back in container, then closed the lid and attached the label.

Surely they'll send you a new one? Also thank you for sharing your advice with us.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-13-2016, 09:08 AM
£120 probably down the drain . My fault. Lesson don't take instructions literally. Should have done the swab.Put it back in container, then closed the lid and attached the label.

I'm sure they will send you a new one. As I understand it the cost of the kit itself isn't much. I would think they get lost or need re-tests all the time.

firemonkey
10-13-2016, 09:09 AM
Surely they'll send you a new one? Also thank you for sharing your advice with us.

I have contacted them for a replacement. Also tweeted them to comment on the order of their instructions. Putting a label on a ridged lid is problematic anyway, without then having to unscrew the lid to do the swabbing.

firemonkey
10-13-2016, 09:11 AM
I'm sure they will send you a new one. As I understand it the cost of the kit itself isn't much. I would think they get lost or need re-tests all the time.

You are probably right. I am having one of my frequent low esteem days. One of those I am sure I am an idiot without the savant part attached.

Amerijoe
10-13-2016, 12:08 PM
Anyone else receive this notice?

This is a short advisory to let you know that your Living DNA kit has been dispatched to:
Sarasota FL 34236

The first step will be to activate your kit before sending your samples back to us; this functionality will be available by this weekend.

Unfortunately with all this excitement, we have encountered a small bug in our system with the first batch of kits dispatched!
Please kindly let us know what kit ID you have received; it can be found on the back of the kit box. We will need this information before it can be activated.

Many thanks,


--
view
Mary Dy

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-13-2016, 12:19 PM
You are probably right. I am having one of my frequent low esteem days. One of those I am sure I am an idiot without the savant part attached.

You think you are an idiot. How do you think I feel when I ask dumb questions about DNA. :)

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-13-2016, 12:24 PM
Looks like the postman tried to deliver mine when I was out yesterday. Hopefully will receive it tomorrow.

firemonkey
10-13-2016, 12:30 PM
Looks like the postman tried to deliver mine when I was out yesterday. Hopefully will receive it tomorrow.

I hope you get it tomorrow.

J1 DYS388=13
10-13-2016, 12:33 PM
You are probably right. I am having one of my frequent low esteem days. One of those I am sure I am an idiot without the savant part attached.

Well I fumbled but fixed my samples. So don't feel bad.

No, I haven't received that notice saying the company doesn't know what kit it sent you.

firemonkey
10-13-2016, 12:47 PM
How did you fumble?

RobertCasey
10-13-2016, 02:06 PM
NatGeo has less than 13,700 if you don't count the synonymous SNPs. If you count the synonymous SNPs, which shouldn't be counted, the count is less than 15,700. Then if you were to trim all of the SNPs that don't have the correct alleles reported that number drops by almost 2,600 SNPs. So effectively NatGeo has less than 11,100 usable SNPs. If the 22,500 Y-SNPS that LivingDNA has are all usable then it has more than twice the amount of NatGeo.

Here is a quote from LivingDNA on the YSNPs:

The Y-DNA SNPs have been selected from the 1000 Genomes Project and research papers, and checked and reviewed on the ISOGG SNP tree (http://isogg.org/tree), The Y-SNP test has been developed in collaboration with Professor Mark Jobling and Pille Hallast at the University of Leicester.

At least the ISOGG haplotree was mentioned but academics can not stoop to include vendor haplotrees (FTDNA) or leading genetic genealogist tools like Alex Williamson's BigTree. Hopefully, they filter out all the worthless CTS, F and PF YSNPs that bloated the NatGeo counts. There were several good branches from these - but robust haplotrees should be consulted for these tests vs. academic papers. I do like Mark Jobling's papers as you can actually read his articles. I looked into the number included from the Wiki website (not always the most reliable) - it has 20,000 for NatGeo and 15,000 for CROMO2. I think that you meant to say equivalent YSNPs vs. synonymous YSNPs. Synonymous is the same mutation with the different names. Equivalents are different SYNPs that track each other. There has been some work at 1000 genomes since the NatGeo test - but most research of YSNPs is best found in the FTDNA haplotree, Alex Williamson's BigTree (limited to P312) and the ISOGG haplotree in a distant third these days (which appears to be their only validation from genetic genealogy sources). When are these companies going to request the assistance of genetic genealogists vs. the academics that spend relative minimal time on genetic genealogy ?

J1 DYS388=13
10-13-2016, 02:39 PM
How did you fumble?

Instead of using the peel-off QR code stickers, I used the ones from the packaging by mistake. They tore and didn't stick well.

I was in the army for 20 years. We had an expression: when all else fails, read the manual.

AnnieD
10-13-2016, 03:46 PM
Anyone else receive this notice?

This is a short advisory to let you know that your Living DNA kit has been dispatched to:
Sarasota FL 34236

The first step will be to activate your kit before sending your samples back to us; this functionality will be available by this weekend.

Unfortunately with all this excitement, we have encountered a small bug in our system with the first batch of kits dispatched!
Please kindly let us know what kit ID you have received; it can be found on the back of the kit box. We will need this information before it can be activated.

Many thanks,


--
view
Mary Dy

Yes, ditto for me this message yesterday.

Anglecynn
10-13-2016, 05:16 PM
Received mine today :D
Activation is on Friday and i'm going to activate before doing any swabbing, so ill probably send it out next Monday or Tuesday (my day off). 10-12 weeks for a result so here's hoping it's an early Christmas present of sorts, rather than a post-Christmas present, haha.

ArmandoR1b
10-14-2016, 01:10 AM
Here is a quote from LivingDNA on the YSNPs:

The Y-DNA SNPs have been selected from the 1000 Genomes Project and research papers, and checked and reviewed on the ISOGG SNP tree (http://isogg.org/tree), The Y-SNP test has been developed in collaboration with Professor Mark Jobling and Pille Hallast at the University of Leicester.

At least the ISOGG haplotree was mentioned but academics can not stoop to include vendor haplotrees (FTDNA) or leading genetic genealogist tools like Alex Williamson's BigTree. Hopefully, they filter out all the worthless CTS, F and PF YSNPs that bloated the NatGeo counts. There were several good branches from these - but robust haplotrees should be consulted for these tests vs. academic papers. I do like Mark Jobling's papers as you can actually read his articles. I looked into the number included from the Wiki website (not always the most reliable) - it has 20,000 for NatGeo and 15,000 for CROMO2. I think that you meant to say equivalent YSNPs vs. synonymous YSNPs. Synonymous is the same mutation with the different names. Equivalents are different SYNPs that track each other. There has been some work at 1000 genomes since the NatGeo test - but most research of YSNPs is best found in the FTDNA haplotree, Alex Williamson's BigTree (limited to P312) and the ISOGG haplotree in a distant third these days (which appears to be their only validation from genetic genealogy sources). When are these companies going to request the assistance of genetic genealogists vs. the academics that spend relative minimal time on genetic genealogy ?

LOL. I meant what I said about the synonymous SNPs. The same mutation with different names. I can tell you haven't worked with any of the NatGeo raw data files.

firemonkey
10-14-2016, 10:58 AM
Living dna haven't emailed me back so I'm thinking getting a replacement swab is unlikely. If so I'll chalk up the loss and wait for them to accept data transfers.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-14-2016, 11:05 AM
Living dna haven't emailed me back so I'm thinking getting a replacement swab is unlikely. If so I'll chalk up the loss and wait for them to accept data transfers.

Give it time, maybe they are busy.

Amerijoe
10-14-2016, 12:19 PM
Living dna haven't emailed me back so I'm thinking getting a replacement swab is unlikely. If so I'll chalk up the loss and wait for them to accept data transfers.

When I get my kit, I'll insert a note to resend a kit to one of our outstanding members of Anthrogenica whose kit become unusable due to instruction error. An customer number would be good to include. Give me a shout if you want me to proceed. Still waiting on kit arrival. Joe

A Norfolk L-M20
10-14-2016, 12:25 PM
@firemonkey

Having now used my kit, are you really sure that you can't open the swab case? If it's only a sticky paper holding it. A pretty simple pull apart plastic swab case. I don't mean to sound rude, but I hate seeing you in this anguish. If the case is really damaged, then as John said - they are launching their product, and likely to be pretty busy right now. But are you sure that a sticker has totally spoiled the swab test? Mine pulled out with just a little force. They are only a container. Clearly do it cleanly, but I don't think a sticker across the lid seal should throw all of that money down the drain. Or am I seeing this wrong?

Ok, I waited for the activation date and time. Followed instructions. The activation on the website worked fine. I opted in for data sharing for ancestry. A few little oddities followed. I did give them the names, DOBs and locations of my four grandparents (all being born here in Norfolk). In City/Town though I instead recorded their parishes, as they were rural. The real oddity was where they asked for my oldest male relative? I thought about this, why they would want to know that - my oldest living relative? No, because they wanted to know his death date. My earliest male ancestor on my tree, anywhere? But why? In the end I decided that what they were really asking was my earliest recorded Y/surname/paternal ancestor! So I gave them the earliest Y-line ancestor that I had good dates for - using baptism and burial dates for birth and death.

Taking the sample was straight forward. I activated online first. Following Firemonkey's mishap, I put the stickers on the lids of the swab containers immediately after taking the sample and replacing the lids. Otherwise, stick them in the bag, in the envelope, post them back (prepaid here in the UK).

I noticed that the return is their base in Somerset. Therefore, they must stockpile them before forwarding to the lab in Denmark. So I doubt that it's going to be a case of first mailed, first results.

Jean M
10-14-2016, 12:51 PM
Living dna haven't emailed me back so I'm thinking getting a replacement swab is unlikely. If so I'll chalk up the loss and wait for them to accept data transfers.

I have now been through the activation process and read the terms and conditions. You are entitled to a refund if you cancel.

A Norfolk L-M20
10-14-2016, 01:10 PM
I just asked the question about the query on "your oldest male relative" on Living DNA's Facebook Page. They confirmed that they were really looking for the earliest direct Y ancestor, and would make it clearer in a future edit.

The second point is, that they answered there within five minutes. @ firemonkey, if you have Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/livingdna/

J1 DYS388=13
10-14-2016, 01:15 PM
Living dna haven't emailed me back so I'm thinking getting a replacement swab is unlikely. If so I'll chalk up the loss and wait for them to accept data transfers.

Just send it in. They can key in the kit number without the QR Code.

firemonkey
10-14-2016, 01:22 PM
@firemonkey

Having now used my kit, are you really sure that you can't open the swab case? If it's only a sticky paper holding it. A pretty simple pull apart plastic swab case. I don't mean to sound rude, but I hate seeing you in this anguish. If the case is really damaged, then as John said - they are launching their product, and likely to be pretty busy right now.


As I have suggested it was down to me starting to open the lid and accidentally closing it when taking the peeling sticker off so as to reattach it. The instructions to my mind were faulty, but it was my incompetence that saw me close the lid.
I have tried twisting and pulling the lid with no success. It seems that a locking mechanism takes place when you close the lid, no doubt there is a valid reason for that to happen.

firemonkey
10-14-2016, 01:28 PM
Just send it in. They can key in the kit number without the QR Code.

The problem would be sending in only one swab sample. Due to my stupidity I can't now reopen the tube to do the swab.
I am presuming they send 2 swabs as two are needed to do the testing.

Serves me right for being incompetent.

firemonkey
10-14-2016, 01:45 PM
The second point is, that they answered there within five minutes. @ firemonkey, if you have Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/livingdna/

Thanks I have messaged them. Just to confirm you did put the label on the ridged lid ? I am now wondering(that's anxiety for you) whether I got the instructions wrong.

Jean M
10-14-2016, 02:02 PM
Thanks I have messaged them. Just to confirm you did put the label on the ridged lid ? I am now wondering(that's anxiety for you) whether I got the instructions wrong.

The sticker should go on the ridged lid. See the image in step 4 in the instructions for where the bottom end of the lid is. It is below the ridging. You have to pull hard to get it away from the container.

firemonkey
10-14-2016, 02:54 PM
The sticker should go on the ridged lid. See the image in step 4 in the instructions for where the bottom end of the lid is. It is below the ridging. You have to pull hard to get it away from the container.

Thanks Jean. That was hard. It took several goes and as much effort as I could muster. I admit I'm far from the strongest person . It would be even more difficult for people weaker than me.

Jean M
10-14-2016, 03:30 PM
Thanks Jean. That was hard. It took several goes and as much effort as I could muster. I admit I'm far from the strongest person . It would be even more difficult for people weaker than me.

I twisted it first to break the paper seal.

A Norfolk L-M20
10-14-2016, 04:45 PM
Yup, wrapped the sticker around the ridged lid, but away from the seal.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-14-2016, 04:54 PM
When I get my kit, I'll insert a note to resend a kit to one of our outstanding members of Anthrogenica whose kit become unusable due to instruction error. An customer number would be good to include. Give me a shout if you want me to proceed. Still waiting on kit arrival. Joe

Good idea, I'm happy to do the same. Received my kit today, unopened as yet. If I run into problems, will ask for advice.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-14-2016, 05:02 PM
Good idea, I'm happy to do the same. Received my kit today, unopened as yet. If I run into problems, will ask for advice.

Sorry, hadn't read all the posts. Will save my strength until the morning I think. :)

JMcB
10-14-2016, 06:25 PM
Well, I haven't been contacted as of yet, even though I think I was one of the early purchasers. Perhaps because I'm over here in the States. Regardless, it sounds like there's some kind of design or instructional flaw in the product, so I'll be on my guard. Unfortunately, I'm not going to have any Internet once I get back home again - thank you Hurricane Matthew - so I won't be able to activate my account anyway. So perhaps it's for the best. Although, I was really anxious to get this one out and on it's way because I really like everything about this test, including the price. - C'est la vie.

firemonkey
10-14-2016, 06:32 PM
They replied to my tweet offering advice over the instructions.

@firemonkey1957 Thanks for the advice - we're going to be changing our instructions to this order. We appreciate your feedback!

sktibo
10-14-2016, 06:57 PM
Well, I haven't been contacted as of yet, even though I think I was one of the early purchasers. Perhaps because I'm over here in the States. Regardless, it sounds like there's some kind of design or instructional flaw in the product, so I'll be on my guard. Unfortunately, I'm not going to have any Internet once I get back home again - thank you Hurricane Matthew - so I won't be able to activate my account anyway. So perhaps it's for the best. Although, I was really anxious to get this one out and on it's way because I really like everything about this test, including the price. - C'est la vie.

Far west of Canada here, no kit yet either. I think it'll take a bit longer for us North Americans. I purchased Sept 27. also no email. Hoping you get your kit soon, and your internet!

JonikW
10-14-2016, 07:18 PM
Sorry, hadn't read all the posts. Will save my strength until the morning I think. :)

Posted mine off today. You can put the stickers for the two swabs below the ridged part of the cap. I was glad to have the advice from this forum about applying them after closure.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-14-2016, 08:06 PM
Far west of Canada here, no kit yet either. I think it'll take a bit longer for us North Americans. I purchased Sept 27. also no email. Hoping you get your kit soon, and your internet!

When I ordered my Family Finder Kit it took longer than I thought.Not surprising really, different Continent. The Pony Express must have been delayed. :)

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-14-2016, 08:07 PM
Posted mine off today. You can put the stickers for the two swabs below the ridged part of the cap. I was glad to have the advice from this forum about applying them after closure.

Yes me too. I'll probably find some way to mess it up. :)

firemonkey
10-14-2016, 08:49 PM
Now the waiting game begins. I am hoping the 10 weeks stated is them being careful with their estimates. It seems like quite a long time, but I also know the frustration that can occur when a time is given and the results are late.

I am a little confused as to what time frame the results cover. I read something about 6 generations which suggests 1780s for me, but then further on read something about 100,000 years.

It will be interesting to see how much British I get given my known 100% British ancestry. Ancestry gives me 53%(Ireland and Great Britain) FTDNA 61% and 23andMe 65%. It will also be interesting to see how much Scandinavian,or not, I get. Ancestry gives me 23% ,FTDNA 37% AND 23andMe 4.3%.

I am wondering whether there are any plans for Gedmatch to accept the raw data when it comes .

JonikW
10-14-2016, 08:52 PM
Far west of Canada here, no kit yet either. I think it'll take a bit longer for us North Americans. I purchased Sept 27. also no email. Hoping you get your kit soon, and your internet!

Just to let you know: I didn't receive an email before my kit arrived. It may well be the same for you.

JMcB
10-15-2016, 02:47 AM
Far west of Canada here, no kit yet either. I think it'll take a bit longer for us North Americans. I purchased Sept 27. also no email. Hoping you get your kit soon, and your internet!

Hello sktibo,

We both purchased ours on the same day, so it looks like we'll both be on the same time line, more or less. Which is totally understandable considering the extra distance. And thank you, I hope I get my Internet back soon, too. All things considered, I got off easy! My poor neighbor downstairs, lost most of her belongings to the storm's surge. So I'm counting my blessings.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-15-2016, 06:48 PM
Well I activated my kit ok. I will take the samples tomorrow and post early next week (hopefully) :)

Amerijoe
10-15-2016, 07:09 PM
I received one of the kit ID errors. Cannot activate. Emailed them, will get back to me on Tues. Don't send and wait for the correction or send and wait for the correction, that is the question?

C J Wyatt III
10-15-2016, 07:21 PM
I received one of the kit ID errors. Cannot activate. Emailed them, will get back to me on Tues. Don't send and wait for the correction or send and wait for the correction, that is the question?

I'd say be patient. What's a few days in this field? you might create more confusion if you go ahead and send it.

Could someone save me the trouble of looking, and tell me how to order if you live in the USA.

Thanks,

Jack

Amerijoe
10-15-2016, 07:32 PM
Jack, order from their website. Orders for USA come out of Louisville, Ky.

Anglecynn
10-18-2016, 06:59 AM
Edit: Found an answer, sending kit as planned.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-18-2016, 08:34 AM
I posted mine yesterday.

chelle
10-18-2016, 09:10 AM
How long did it take you to hear back from the company after emailing them the kit ID? I am anxious to activate it and send it off. I feel like it is taunting me like a gift waiting to be opened.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-18-2016, 12:33 PM
How long did it take you to hear back from the company after emailing them the kit ID? I am anxious to activate it and send it off. I feel like it is taunting me like a gift waiting to be opened.

I didn't have an e mail reply after activating the kit - I don't think some others here did either. After activating it I just followed the instructions in the kit and posted it.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-18-2016, 12:39 PM
How long did it take you to hear back from the company after emailing them the kit ID? I am anxious to activate it and send it off. I feel like it is taunting me like a gift waiting to be opened.

Inside the lid of the kit box is an instruction to activate the kit at: www.livingdna.com/activate - they give you an activation code. That's what happened with mine anyway.

Amerijoe
10-18-2016, 02:13 PM
Yesterday rec'd email from David Nicholson confirming activation codes were now in place. This morning Mary Dy confirmed Nicholson correction. Kit is on it's way.

From my experience, Living DNA has good customer support, hopefully their results will be as well.:)

JonikW
10-18-2016, 04:42 PM
Inside the lid of the kit box is an instruction to activate the kit at: www.livingdna.com/activate - they give you an activation code. That's what happened with mine anyway.

Mine was the same. When I then looked at my account overview it took a few minutes to state it had been activated. I almost went through the process again as a result.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-18-2016, 04:51 PM
Mine was the same. When I then looked at my account overview it took a few minutes to state it had been activated. I almost went through the process again as a result.

Mine seemed to go through straight away, Maybe I picked a good time. :)

rdegnen
10-18-2016, 05:08 PM
I ordered the kit Sept 29, kit was received and activated today. Returning kit to, Eurofins MWG Operon LLC, Louisville, Kentucky

firemonkey
10-18-2016, 05:47 PM
Total confusion. After failing to respond to my first contact they finally replied today to say they are sending out a new kit. I wrote back saying there's no need as I managed to do the swabbing with some difficulty and have activated the kit and sent it in.
However when I click on My tests in my account area there is nothing there for the tests I've had with them.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-18-2016, 06:00 PM
Total confusion. After failing to respond to my first contact they finally replied today to say they are sending out a new kit. I wrote back saying there's no need as I managed to do the swabbing with some difficulty and have activated the kit and sent it in.
However when I click on My tests in my account area there is nothing there for the tests I've had with them.

Perhaps someone cancelled the original after your enquiry.

JMcB
10-18-2016, 06:28 PM
Well, I got home after 12 days of being away from home courtesy of Hurricane Matthew and there was my kit waiting for me. Later I managed to get my wifi back up and tomorrow I'll activate my account and send my test in. Hopefully, with no snafus in the process.

After that I'll have to find a new place to live, in a market that's been flooded with people seeking a new place to live.

C'est La Vie!

Anglecynn
10-18-2016, 08:02 PM
Sent mine off today as well.

chelle
10-18-2016, 08:02 PM
Thank you. Mine was one of the ones where I had received the email about errors and to email them the kit id before activation. I ended up getting a response within the hour saying it was now okay to activate my kit online.

chelle
10-18-2016, 08:03 PM
Good luck with your house hunt, JMcB.

JMcB
10-18-2016, 08:21 PM
Good luck with your house hunt, JMcB.

Thank you chelle, I appreciate it!

firemonkey
10-18-2016, 08:23 PM
Received the following reply.


Dear Mr. Gatty,

Okay, that's understood. We will not dispatch an additional kit.

We have also received your additional query regarding missing items in your customer portal.

Thank you for bearing with us; your feedback helps us find and correct the bugs,

Many thanks,

I am presuming from that the first order hadn't been cancelled yet and there is a bug in their customer portal.

firemonkey
10-18-2016, 08:45 PM
Their portal developers are looking into it.

JMcB
10-19-2016, 06:55 PM
Well, I got my kit activated and sent it on it's way. And firemonkey I would like to thank you for posting the difficulties you had because it helped me to get through my process without running into the same problems. Which I think I may very well have.

The only problem I ran into, came when I tried to enter the information on my most distant known ancestor. They didn't have Scotland or the British Isle as an option, so I put in Ireland, County Donegal, hoping that I would be able to change it later. I sent them an email and told them about the problem and got this reply:


Thank you very much for letting us know.

In due course, we will be introducing a feature that will allow you to add/edit these research participation details

In the meantime, your feedback is very valuable and will be forwarded to our IT development team.

Kind regards,
Mary Dy
Living DNA

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-19-2016, 07:17 PM
Well, I got my kit activated and sent it on it's way. And firemonkey I would like to thank you for posting the difficulties you had because it helped me to get through my process without running into the same problems. Which I think I may very well have.

The only problem I ran into, came when I tried to enter the information on my most distant known ancestor. They didn't have Scotland or the British Isle as an option, so I put in Ireland, County Donegal, hoping that I would be able to change it later. I sent them an email and told them about the problem and got this reply:

Dear Mr So & So,

We would like to take this opportunity to inform you that you are a stupid jerk! Didn't you know that ..... just kidding ;-)

Here's what they really said:

Thank you very much for letting us know.

In due course, we will be introducing a feature that will allow you to add/edit these research participation details

In the meantime, your feedback is very valuable and will be forwarded to our IT development team.

Kind regards,
Mary Dy
Living DNA

Yes it helped me too.
I found the way they laid out the places a little awkward.

JMcB
10-20-2016, 12:04 AM
Yes it helped me too.
I found the way they laid out the places a little awkward.

Mine showed up in a drop box which anticipated what you were typing. But I do everything on an iPad and I've noticed that sometimes it seems to change how things are formatted. Some portions of my FTDNA family tree are all out of kilter because of it. At least I think that's the reason.

firemonkey
10-20-2016, 08:08 AM
Still no test listed under My tests or order listed under my account. Have contacted them twice to get a progress report ,and to ask whether I need to re-enter the activation code. They have not replied.
I am not impressed. The impression that I have wasted £120 or so is growing rapidly.

firemonkey
10-20-2016, 08:09 AM
Repeat.Delete.

sktibo
10-20-2016, 08:42 AM
Hang in there, Fire monkey. I'm betting they have a lot of issues to work through with their launch. I bet it's frustrating but if this test really is as good as it looks then it'll be worth the hassle. If it comes down to the wire and they haven't helped you through it I would be happy to lend a hand and email them to get yours on track, and I bet other members would too.

If it really does become a money loss scenario in the end then know that I've lost far greater amounts on far dumber things! But I doubt it'll come to that.

firemonkey
10-20-2016, 09:09 AM
I think I would feel happier if they were more prompt at responding. Of course it may be poor customer service or may be because they are overwhelmed with technical glitches.
If the latter some confirmation of this,and what is being done, would be helpful. Keeping customers in the loop should be a priority.

.

firemonkey
10-20-2016, 09:12 AM
Email just in.


Dear Mr. Gatty,

Your kit is successfully activated.

Our managing director is dealing directly with our developers regarding the glitches in what our customers can and cannot see in their portals.
They are working tirelessly to resolve this issue, and we hope to have a resolution very soon.

Thank you very much for bearing with us.

Kind regards,
Mary Dy
Living DNA

I sense that quite a few have this problem and they are struggling to find a solution.

sktibo
10-20-2016, 09:16 AM
Happy to see they wrote you back. Here's to hoping they get it all sorted!

ADW_1981
10-20-2016, 11:58 AM
Still no kit in Canada, or shipping notice. I think I ordered the day after this thread began.

J1 DYS388=13
10-20-2016, 12:27 PM
Still no test listed under My tests or order listed under my account. Have contacted them twice to get a progress report ,and to ask whether I need to re-enter the activation code. They have not replied.
I am not impressed. The impression that I have wasted £120 or so is growing rapidly.

Don't despair. Customers fumble, they fumble. You should have seen American On Line when it started up.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-20-2016, 12:28 PM
Still no kit in Canada, or shipping notice. I think I ordered the day after this thread began.

I'm in the UK and didn't have notification that it had been shipped. Hopefully it will be with you soon - I had to wait quite some time for the Family Finder test from the U.S.A..

JMcB
10-20-2016, 03:44 PM
Still no test listed under My tests or order listed under my account. Have contacted them twice to get a progress report ,and to ask whether I need to re-enter the activation code. They have not replied.
I am not impressed. The impression that I have wasted £120 or so is growing rapidly.

Hello firemonkey,

I would be very surprised if you ended up losing your money. Give them a little time and hopefully you'll hear from them soon. They're a brand new company so it's probably inevitable that they'll have some glitches in thier system. If it stretches on too long, as sktibo says, we'll start emailing them on your behalf.

A Norfolk L-M20
10-20-2016, 04:23 PM
My kit is now marked as Status Kit Recieved.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-20-2016, 04:34 PM
I received this today:-

"Thank you for sending back your samples.
This is a short note to advise that we've received your samples, registered them on our system and the journey of finding your genetic ancestry will begin soon.

The next step is for our technicians to extract the DNA from your swabs, and then run some tests on the quality of your DNA. If there are any issues with your sample we should know in the next few weeks.

We will advise on the process for sample re-collection, if necessary.In a small number of rare cases, it's not until the very end of the process that we discover the DNA sample you provided is not of high enough quality.

All going well, we expect your results to be ready within 10-12 weeks after they reach the lab. If you've ordered a printed book, it will take a further 3-4 weeks after your online results are available.

Interested in learning more about ancestry?
Follow our twitter @Living_DNA and like our Facebook page www.facebook.com/livingdna to learn more about how we're able to find this information out for you!

Warm regards,
The Living DNA Family

GabeGibeau
10-20-2016, 05:27 PM
Hello ADW_1981,

FYI... I placed my order online for the Living DNA kit on October 2nd.

I then received an email from them on October 14th saying that "Your Living DNA Order Has Been Processed"...

Last Monday, October 17th I received the kit in the mail (I live in Colorado) that was sent from: Eurofins Central Laboratory in Lancaster, PA. I hope this timeline helps you out.

Take care,
Roger Gebow
(GabeGibeau)

Anglecynn
10-20-2016, 05:41 PM
My kit is now marked as Status Kit Recieved.

Same. Posted on Tuesday so not bad.

JonikW
10-20-2016, 06:59 PM
Same. Posted on Tuesday so not bad.

Same with me as of today. Mailed it last Friday.

sktibo
10-20-2016, 08:42 PM
Still no kit in Canada, or shipping notice. I think I ordered the day after this thread began.

British Columbia here, no email or kit for me. Ordered around the same time as Norfolk, on Sept 27 IIRC. Hopefully we'll get ours soon but you're not alone

sktibo
10-20-2016, 10:06 PM
Anyone have experience with this:

I just went to the living DNA site and registered an account with my email (same email I used to place my order), and when I looked under orders it said "no orders found". Slightly concerned. But maybe it's no good reason to worry?

firemonkey
10-20-2016, 10:14 PM
Anyone have experience with this:

I just went to the living DNA site and registered an account with my email (same email I used to place my order), and when I looked under orders it said "no orders found". Slightly concerned. But maybe it's no good reason to worry?




This is the problem I have mentioned in this thread. Nothing under My tests and My account.

I received this reply but unfortunately the fix didn't work.



Hi Tim,

Thank you for the email and sorry about all the confusion, a few web glitches as we got the activation process going.

We made a couple of changes to your account so you could see your tests - let me know if this works for you as otherwise we have to one more thing.

Anglecynn
10-20-2016, 10:31 PM
Anyone have experience with this:

I just went to the living DNA site and registered an account with my email (same email I used to place my order), and when I looked under orders it said "no orders found". Slightly concerned. But maybe it's no good reason to worry?

I have that when i click on the 'My Account' bit, but when i click on the 'My Tests' tab it shows information relating to my order's status.

sktibo
10-20-2016, 10:58 PM
I have that when i click on the 'My Account' bit, but when i click on the 'My Tests' tab it shows information relating to my order's status.

Yeah, My Account : No orders found
My Tests: Blank, as I haven't received it yet.

Maybe I should have waited to receive my test before creating an account? Hopefully I don't cause too many problems because of this.

JMcB
10-21-2016, 12:01 AM
British Columbia here, no email or kit for me. Ordered around the same time as Norfolk, on Sept 27 IIRC. Hopefully we'll get ours soon but you're not alone

Just so you know, I never did get an email saying it was on it's way, it just showed up. And I also ordered it on the 27th and it arrived here (in Florida) on the 18th. So hopefully your kit will show up soon.

sktibo
10-21-2016, 01:08 AM
Just heard back from Living DNA (I wrote to them asking for confirmation about the kit being shipped)

"Thank you for the email and I am really sorry that we have not updated you on the status of your order.
I am going to make sure this kit is sent to your via a prirority shipment either today (friday 21st) or on Monday. This will be free of charge becuase we have not kept you updated on progress.
Kits started shipping from last week but there was a large volume of kits to work through, futhermore it seems we had a slight problem with shipping to Canada and a couple of other countries which was sorted today.

All kits will be going out but as mentioned and we will upgrade your kit as a priority shipment (DHL)

Yours Truly,

David Nicholson
MD - Living DNA"

I'm impressed with how quickly they wrote me back, and I think it's a bonus that they're sending me priority shipping free of charge. My fellow Canadians- just to say it again - They said in the email that "we had a slight problem with shipping to Canada" it might be a good idea to email them and check on your kit.

ADW_1981
10-21-2016, 02:15 AM
Just heard back from Living DNA (I wrote to them asking for confirmation about the kit being shipped)

"Thank you for the email and I am really sorry that we have not updated you on the status of your order.
I am going to make sure this kit is sent to your via a prirority shipment either today (friday 21st) or on Monday. This will be free of charge becuase we have not kept you updated on progress.
Kits started shipping from last week but there was a large volume of kits to work through, futhermore it seems we had a slight problem with shipping to Canada and a couple of other countries which was sorted today.

All kits will be going out but as mentioned and we will upgrade your kit as a priority shipment (DHL)

Yours Truly,

David Nicholson
MD - Living DNA"

I'm impressed with how quickly they wrote me back, and I think it's a bonus that they're sending me priority shipping free of charge. My fellow Canadians- just to say it again - They said in the email that "we had a slight problem with shipping to Canada" it might be a good idea to email them and check on your kit.

I blame Canada, not UK.