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JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-11-2016, 06:25 AM
I was having an Internet discussion with a friend about a tendency towards aggression in dogs, is it due to experiences or are genetic factors involved which can be passed on through poor breeding practices?
I had vaguely heard about the ability to inherit memories and she mentioned it in relation to dog aggression, possibly memory experiences being passed on to subsequent generations of dogs, but it applies more widely of course.

http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Frealclearscience.com%2Fvideo% 2F2015%2F11%2F19%2Fepigenetics_why_inheritance_is_ weirder_than_we_thought.html&h=MAQEAlHtZ&s=1

10-11-2016, 08:58 AM
Interesting idea, could this drive the theory of Evolution?

palamede
10-11-2016, 11:42 AM
I have no special knowledge about the subject but cannot prevent me from giving an opinion, specially in a sub-forum with weak activity.

In the animal aggressivity, there are a lot of balanced factors specific to each species and a few according to the natural and domestic races, and there are a lot of interference between factors.
The factors are
- genetic which are normally transmitted inchanged thru the generation except rare mutations. the same control allele could have different effects according to the other factors.
- environmental, the most important in the life duration are those of the pregancy and first enfance. But present factors have also a great role by activating memories and gene activating and controlling factors
- epigenetic : there is no memory in the meaning of the nervous memory, but methylisation and demethylisation of loci which influence the activation and the control of the genes.

Definition wiki of epigenetics
Epigenetics studies genetic effects not encoded in the DNA sequence of an organism, hence the prefix epi- (Greek: επί- over, outside of, around).[1][2] Such effects on cellular and physiological phenotypic traits may result from external or environmental factors that switch genes on and off and affect how cells express genes.[3][4] These alterations may or may not be heritable, although the use of the term epigenetic to describe processes that are heritable is controversial.

Finally, When I re-read the definition, I am not sure it is the same that we guess when we speak of epigenetics. While here, it speaks of the result from external and environmental factors, we think about biochemical factors linked around the DNA and trasmissible to children although in the DNA chain and they could be reversible some generations later, maybe due to a new change in the environment.

For a dog the genetic factors are selected by the success of survival by males, by competitions between males and by female choices. Normall, the competition favorizes the most aggressive ones, but a bad-controlled aggressivity by excessive hormonal factors or new mutations could be disastrous in the life and also create a female reject. In some primitive human ethnics, the lunatic clan chief can be killed by his clan or abandonned to the ennemies (by secret agreement or not).

The environment and educational factors of the dogs are well known.

I don't know if the epigenetics have an action in the dog aggressivity, but we can imagine the long-timed hungers and/or repeated stresses could start a biochemical action which gives an epigenetic effect transmitted to few following generations and prepared them to a difficult and stressing environment.

We must distinguish the real epigenetic transmission and a probable darwinian selection transmitted by ADN of the conditions of activity of the biochemical process of methylisation and methylisation of the ADN loci. The epigenetic effects are not transmited for ever but the process of the epigenetic biochimistry is transmitted by ADN for ever.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-11-2016, 12:08 PM
I have no special knowledge about the subject but cannot prevent me from giving an opinion, specially in a sub-forum with weak activity.

In the animal aggressivity, there are a lot of balanced factors specific to each species and a few according to the natural and domestic races, and there are a lot of interference between factors.
The factors are
- genetic which are normally transmitted inchanged thru the generation except rare mutations. the same control allele could have different effects according to the other factors.
- environmental, the most important in the life duration are those of the pregancy and first enfance. But present factors have also a great role by activating memories and gene activating and controlling factors
- epigenetic : there is no memory in the meaning of the nervous memory, but methylisation and demethylisation of loci which influence the activation and the control of the genes.

Definition wiki of epigenetics
Epigenetics studies genetic effects not encoded in the DNA sequence of an organism, hence the prefix epi- (Greek: επί- over, outside of, around).[1][2] Such effects on cellular and physiological phenotypic traits may result from external or environmental factors that switch genes on and off and affect how cells express genes.[3][4] These alterations may or may not be heritable, although the use of the term epigenetic to describe processes that are heritable is controversial.

Finally, When I re-read the definition, I am not sure it is the same that we guess when we speak of epigenetics. While here, it speaks of the result from external and environmental factors, we think about biochemical factors linked around the DNA and trasmissible to children although in the DNA chain and they could be reversible some generations later, maybe due to a new change in the environment.

For a dog the genetic factors are selected by the success of survival by males, by competitions between males and by female choices. Normall, the competition favorizes the most aggressive ones, but a bad-controlled aggressivity by excessive hormonal factors or new mutations could be disastrous in the life and also create a female reject. In some primitive human ethnics, the lunatic clan chief can be killed by his clan or abandonned to the ennemies (by secret agreement or not).

The environment and educational factors of the dogs are well known.

I don't know if the epigenetics have an action in the dog aggressivity, but we can imagine the long-timed hungers and/or repeated stresses could start a biochemical action which gives an epigenetic effect transmitted to few following generations and prepared them to a difficult and stressing environment.

We must distinguish the real epigenetic transmission and a probable darwinian selection transmitted by ADN of the conditions of activity of the biochemical process of methylisation and methylisation of the ADN loci. The epigenetic effects are not transmited for ever but the process of the epigenetic biochimistry is transmitted by ADN for ever.

Very interesting. I should just clarify we were discussing a tendency towards aggression in relation to domesticated dogs and dog breeds, where "natural selection" doesn't really apply to the same extent because people usually make the decisions about breeding. People often say in relation to the behaviour of domestic dogs "it's how they are brought up", i.e, entirely a product of environment. I used to say this myself, but I now don't believe it is entirely true, although it is important. Possibly environment affects the triggering or not of certain responses which may or may not already be in the DNA?

AJL
10-11-2016, 01:34 PM
This chart (on human heritability of personality traits) might be a useful talking piece:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/06/heritability-of-behavioral-traits/

Amerijoe
10-11-2016, 06:12 PM
Isn't instinct the innate ability to react. Could instinct be considered long term memory inbedded in the DNA?

I remember as a young chap deciding to take a year off and go sailing. Didn't know aft from stern, but having attributes of high risk behavior, I was not deterred. Went out and purchased a 42' sloop with a 12 HP Westerbeke diesel. Purred like a kitten when it worked. It absolutely hated the cold and shooting it up with liquid ether was quite interesting.

I digress, found an Old Salt who could sail blind to instruct me in the ways of the sea and how to put three sheets to the wind. I learned not to say back of the boat and used stern. I'm on a roll, took the till with O.S. and it felt as if I had done this before. I could feel the wind, water and boat and felt instinctively how to keep them in sync. It was an exhilarating as well as strange experience. Even Old Salt was impressed.

Could this innate sailing ability be inherited from some past ancestor? Maybe all the abilities required for sailing just lined up perfectly in my DNA? Interesting subject requiring more input. Anyone else have a similar experience?

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
10-11-2016, 06:26 PM
Lol reminds me so much of Assassins Creed 'genetic memory'

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-11-2016, 06:49 PM
Isn't instinct the innate ability to react. Could instinct be considered long term memory inbedded in the DNA?

I remember as a young chap deciding to take a year off and go sailing. Didn't know aft from stern, but having attributes of high risk behavior, I was not deterred. Went out and purchased a 42' sloop with a 12 HP Westerbeke diesel. Purred like a kitten when it worked. It absolutely hated the cold and shooting it up with liquid ether was quite interesting.

I digress, found an Old Salt who could sail blind to instruct me in the ways of the sea and how to put three sheets to the wind. I learned not to say back of the boat and used stern. I'm on a roll, took the till with O.S. and it felt as if I had done this before. I could feel the wind, water and boat and felt instinctively how to keep them in sync. It was an exhilarating as well as strange experience. Even Old Salt was impressed.

Could this innate sailing ability be inherited from some past ancestor? Maybe all the abilities required for sailing just lined up perfectly in my DNA? Interesting subject requiring more input. Anyone else have a similar experience?

I've always liked animals and the countryside even as a small child but wasn't brought up with any pets. Now I have cats, dogs and chickens etc. Nearly all my ancestors were farmers or farm labourers. It may be nothing to do with it, but you do wonder where some of these inclinations come from. :) John

Amerijoe
10-11-2016, 07:56 PM
I've always liked animals and the countryside even as a small child but wasn't brought up with any pets. Now I have cats, dogs and chickens etc. Nearly all my ancestors were farmers or farm labourers. It may be nothing to do with it, but you do wonder where some of these inclinations come from. :) John

John, having those critters around I'll bet feels good and natural. Some people have the ability to easily relate with animals. Some others have the direct opposite effect, animals become uneasy. We all may have noticed this difference. Is it another inbedded memory in our DNA?

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-11-2016, 08:28 PM
John, having those critters around I'll bet feels good and natural. Some people have the ability to easily relate with animals. Some others have the direct opposite effect, animals become uneasy. We all may have noticed this difference. Is it another inbedded memory in our DNA?

I was told that as a baby I always used to watch the birds and was very serious - you never know I suppose. You know that feeling you have been somewhere previously, but you haven't? Maybe it's just imagination.

A Norfolk L-M20
10-11-2016, 08:54 PM
I'm going to have to vote "no". I know that there have been some studies that have attempted to give a little credibility back to Lamarckism (which I see this as a variety of), but nothing yet convinces me personally.

FredBats
10-21-2016, 09:49 AM
I'm going to have to vote "no". I know that there have been some studies that have attempted to give a little credibility back to Lamarckism (which I see this as a variety of), but nothing yet convinces me personally.

Then how do you explain phobias? People can be absolutely terrified of things with no logical explanation.

I've never been bite by a spider, dangerous spiders are pretty easily identifiable here, yet even a simple garden spider will get me leaping to my feet so I can find something to squish it. I also love flying, I have my own private pilot's license in fact, a love that probably stems from the fact ancestors have been pilots... but I actually hate heights... I despise elevators and escalators and you'd have me fighting you all the way to get anywhere near a cliff face.


Can you explain how a blind man can paint? Esref Armagan was born without eyes but his work makes the garbage I've seen from local "artists" around here, and who can see, look like finger paintings in comparison. And he wouldn't be the only blind painter or artist who puts those with sight to shame.



But to the original idea - my father years ago experienced a rather bizarre dream. I saw bizarre because it was in surprising detail. He still goes on about it nearly 20 years later.

The thing is, is he had never been to this area before. There was no photographs from familial travels. But when he visited the place years later it was an extreme case of déjà vu. Everything though that he saw awake was exactly the same as when he had dreamt it. From the placement of the trees around the lake, to the village itself, to the location of the village in relation to the lake. The only thing different was the castle was now in ruins.

The irony is that castle had once been a family possession - his ancestors had owned it.



There's many claims among the old legit Gaelic families of oddities that run along a similar theme. You'll just never learn them if you're an outsider, along with many other things, because well simply put why bother explaining it to someone who won't understand, won't believe, and would likely just ridicle.

leonardo
10-21-2016, 10:44 AM
Wouldn't this idea be somewhat similar to Jung's archetypes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_archetypes

Amerijoe
10-21-2016, 12:52 PM
Wouldn't this idea be somewhat similar to Jung's archetypes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_archetypes

Not necessarily, there is a difference. The difference between instinct and archetype is the following instinct is represented by physical behaviour, similar in all human beings, while archetypes are represented by a mental form of realization, similar in all human beings.

firemonkey
10-21-2016, 01:47 PM
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160328133534.htm

Research on worms but may apply to humans.


http://www.nature.com/subjects/epigenetic-memory

A Norfolk L-M20
10-21-2016, 05:12 PM
Then how do you explain phobias? People can be absolutely terrified of things with no logical explanation.

I've never been bite by a spider, dangerous spiders are pretty easily identifiable here, yet even a simple garden spider will get me leaping to my feet so I can find something to squish it. I also love flying, I have my own private pilot's license in fact, a love that probably stems from the fact ancestors have been pilots... but I actually hate heights... I despise elevators and escalators and you'd have me fighting you all the way to get anywhere near a cliff face.


Can you explain how a blind man can paint? Esref Armagan was born without eyes but his work makes the garbage I've seen from local "artists" around here, and who can see, look like finger paintings in comparison. And he wouldn't be the only blind painter or artist who puts those with sight to shame.



But to the original idea - my father years ago experienced a rather bizarre dream. I saw bizarre because it was in surprising detail. He still goes on about it nearly 20 years later.

The thing is, is he had never been to this area before. There was no photographs from familial travels. But when he visited the place years later it was an extreme case of déjà vu. Everything though that he saw awake was exactly the same as when he had dreamt it. From the placement of the trees around the lake, to the village itself, to the location of the village in relation to the lake. The only thing different was the castle was now in ruins.

The irony is that castle had once been a family possession - his ancestors had owned it.



There's many claims among the old legit Gaelic families of oddities that run along a similar theme. You'll just never learn them if you're an outsider, along with many other things, because well simply put why bother explaining it to someone who won't understand, won't believe, and would likely just ridicle.

With all due respect, it's not up to me to explain, as I'm not defending the hypothesis. I could propose that we have invisible fairy godmothers, that implant these phobias and skills into us. It wouldn't be up to you to disprove my hypothesis, but for myself to defend it, and to find supportive evidence, correlations, and to test it or provide correctly made predictions based on the hypothesis. Then I could convince others.

I'm unconvinced by Lamarckism. It was the main alternative theory to Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, over 100 years ago. It has continued to fail as a theory to compete. I know that this isn't strictly Lamarckism - but the idea that memories can be inherited, does suggest that DNA can adapt within a generation and be handed down. I'd need a lot of convincing.

leonardo
10-21-2016, 06:32 PM
Not necessarily, there is a difference. The difference between instinct and archetype is the following instinct is represented by physical behaviour, similar in all human beings, while archetypes are represented by a mental form of realization, similar in all human beings.

But, in regard to the OP, "do we inherit memories," aren't memories a "mental form of realization?"

Amerijoe
10-21-2016, 07:00 PM
This is getting into the area DNA coding and storage which may be difficult to conceive unless involved. Memories and instincts are not the same. Memories are stored in the brain's neutral network. Memories in DNA have not been found as far as I know. Can the process such as CRISPR insert a memory into your DNA? What they are inserting or repairing in many instances is function. I'll stop right here, because thoughts of FRANKENCRISPR come to mind. Side note: If those of you who believe we live in a hologram, then all of us are programmed and the discussion is moot.:lol:

FredBats
10-21-2016, 07:49 PM
With all due respect, it's not up to me to explain, as I'm not defending the hypothesis. I could propose that we have invisible fairy godmothers, that implant these phobias and skills into us. It wouldn't be up to you to disprove my hypothesis, but for myself to defend it, and to find supportive evidence, correlations, and to test it or provide correctly made predictions based on the hypothesis. Then I could convince others.

I'm unconvinced by Lamarckism. It was the main alternative theory to Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, over 100 years ago. It has continued to fail as a theory to compete. I know that this isn't strictly Lamarckism - but the idea that memories can be inherited, does suggest that DNA can adapt within a generation and be handed down. I'd need a lot of convincing.

There is no reason to get defensive. We are, after all, entitled to our options here yes? Freedom of speech and all that jazz.

But ultimately, in getting defensive, you misunderstood me. I wasn't defending Lamarckism. If I was, I would have said so. You said "no" in relation to the original question - can we inherit memories. And all I did was give an alternative option a "yes" to the original question - can we inherit memories.

Leroy Jenkins
10-21-2016, 08:06 PM
Isn't humans having innate fears of the dark and other instincts a type of genetic memory? It's common for humans to feel uncomfortable and anxious in the dark and this is thought to be an instinct humans developed in times long past due to predators lurking the dark before man reached the top of the food chain. Is that not similar to the idea of genetic memory?

DillonResearcher
10-21-2016, 08:39 PM
Not quite the same perhaps but I do seem to remember hearing that there had been studies into traumatic events such as combat causing changes to DNA which would then be passed onto descendants.

DillonResearcher
10-21-2016, 08:39 PM
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/249952

Amerijoe
10-21-2016, 09:02 PM
In my personal opinion! fears and phobias can intentionally or unintentionally be instilled into the human psych. Once instilled, a trigger sets off a chemical reaction which has profound effects on how we sense fear, disgust, etc. Is it rational?

Not everyone is afraid of the dark, snakes, or whatever. Growing up, I was chastised many times for my lack of fear. I always and still do look at everything with an inquisitive bent. I do have fears, but they're not inherited, they were learned. Somewhere in my DNA pile, I have a gene indicating a propensity for risk taking. Risk taking requires complete control of one's fears. Risk taking without fear usually ends in the elimination of said risk taker.

Interesting subject, I'll keep checking in until my DNA is 'Recalled'.:angel:

JohnHowellsTyrfro
10-21-2016, 10:12 PM
Going back to dogs again, which is where I started, :) I've owned a couple of terriers and they have been instinctive rat killers or generally hunters. I've not taught them this or encouraged it. Other terriers aren't. Is it purely genes ( do genes dictate this behaviour? ) or is there an element of ancestral memory? I don't know, but I do wonder how other animals acquire certain instinctive behaviours which it appears have not been taught through experience or following the examples of others? John

Agamemnon
10-22-2016, 02:22 AM
Lol reminds me so much of Assassins Creed 'genetic memory'

Was about to say the exact same thing, time to hop into the Animus, pilgrim :rofl:

Saetro
10-23-2016, 08:37 PM
There is supposed to be the possibility of a human inherited tendency to be risk accepting or risk averse.
One expert in the field of behaviour is adamant that all behaviours are learned - from the womb onwards, but we often do not see, remember, or understand the processes whereby in early childhood we absorb certain behavioural traits or preferences from our experiences or from watching those around us.
His view is that the studies showing a genetic link did not adequately control for this. (The papers I have looked at certainly do not contain the controls he says are required.)

But, turning to animals, some of these traits certainly seem to follow genetics, even when young are separated from their mother at a young age.
Or perhaps, in some way they are learning from humans, who have selected them to mirror some of their own characteristics.

Epigenetics provides a means whereby DNA can pass on something from a previous generation or two.
It will be interesting to see this area develop.

johnthe
12-28-2018, 06:11 AM
Studies have demonstrated that events causing things like PTSD may affect the chemical expression of offspring which leads to certain genes being "turned on or off". Basically if you have PTSD, there's a chance your offspring will have a tendency towards that also.

Jan_Noack
06-03-2019, 12:47 AM
Isn't instinct the innate ability to react. Could instinct be considered long term memory embedded in the DNA?

I've always believed this! No idea how you could ever test for it let alone prove it though. Some call it gut feeling, which is based on past experiences and learning but I believe includes some genetically coded "memory".

My grandmother said of my eldest son when he was a few months old "he's been here before"..which she and her ancestors believed may be true. It explained a reaction and depth of understanding which cannot be explained by the level of experience. So it's always been some belief in this concept, even before genetics was discovered.

But I and certainly many other people have had a feeling of having done something (thoughI can't place any at present).
before or a place feeling so relaxing, like home..when it's on the other side of the world and ou later discover this is where your ancestors lived.

I think it explains many species eg human, dog etc "caution" and other abilities which seems to be innate, as well as abilities. The abilities of humans, as well as other species, has to be genetic, otherwise, why have selective breeding. Abilities is a broad term that includes not just a faster runner, but a person able to sail a boat or a love or hatred of water. The need for open spaces, or the love of looking at a river or ocean and the almost "need" to live near one..or similar for the bush or open flat land. The natives or aborigines of countries tell you of their "love" of their land ..well I felt it first when I visited parts of England, although I like Australia, it's a deeper feeling. (funnily enough, the places I felt it at, I had many years later discovered ancestors came from those areas..and I mostly didn't know). That helps me understand the depth of feeling they talk about not for any part of outback Ozzie but for their own tribal lands.

Some inexplicable fears some people have maybe from experiences of an ancestor? (but I have no proof and haven't looked myself).

One thing I found fascinating is the preference for naming our children In doing family history I could guess with 100% accuracy (though there was usually many families with similar names I could rule out many with names I thought no way) which family out of many was ours..just by the choices of Christian names..down over 8 generations. Of course, most were based on names of Kings and Queens. so they were popular anyway. Thing is, I named my own children the same names without looking at any family history. Maybe it was just names I'd heard of and felt familiar with?..but the names I "liked" and were not ones I knew were in the family at the time, except my firstborn. Just seems strange that I still "like" the names chosen (usually..sometimes at the end of large families you get funny names! or during especially religious times). I think preferences are also genetic.. but again how would you test it, let alone prove it. Some easy preferences are food choices, even when a child has not been brought up with that food..finds later they love that food and then find their grandfather loves it too..etc.(though this could be from the genes causing a need for various nutrients that are in certain foods).

Hmm, so I guess I "believe" it, and it seems to me that preferences and abilities and even the way we act in situations are encoded in our genes (and genes of other species). taking simpler? examples like why ants follow lines and their behaviour on leaving the nest .. isn't it genetic?

It's an very interesting thought though and I hope you get many responses.

Bollox79
06-03-2019, 02:35 AM
Hmm don't know if anyone posted yet about it - https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24677-fear-of-a-smell-can-be-passed-down-several-generations/

What I got from it is that they controlled the variables (the mice that "raised" the baby mice were a different set of mice etc) and the 1st generation offspring acted afraid or showed fear when exposed to the smell, and the 2nd generation didn't show fear, but a heightened sensitivity to it... something like those lines. So it appears it was passed on through DNA and not learned behavior (having a different set of mice raise the babies)... and also showed up in the 2nd generation... but the scientists are having a hard time figuring out the exact mechanism of how this happens. To me it makes sense in an evolutionary/adaptive way that prepares the offspring for something if they are born into the same environment the parents lived in... but also can back fire (in my opinion) when the environment changes, but the trait that was adaptive is no longer so adaptive (case in point aggressiveness in modern society - getting into a lot of fist fights is generally frowned upon, but back in the hunter gatherer days and really until a few hundred years ago many men who were willing to defend their resources and survived passed that on!).

That is my two cent anyway - but I DO think there are some things handed down - I certainly get my "fire" from my Mom's father's family the O'Dwyers, Maguires, and MacDonalds of the Isles (all proven with DNA connections etc - they were quite inbred so good for going back a bit further hah!). My mom has told me often that I have some behaviors that mimic my Grandfather O'Dwyer - but I never met him - so perhaps some of it was through my Mother?!? Though as a female she always encouraged me to not be aggressive and get stuck in, but I have always been that way from a small child! My father's side were not afraid of a fight - many fighting in our conflicts here in America, but they are more reserved overall (Lutheran Germans anyway - he had Scots-Irish also from PA), but my mother's father's side were the outspoken type and described as impetuous ;-)...

-Charlie

Jan_Noack
06-11-2019, 07:49 PM
I've always believed this! No idea how you could ever test for it let alone prove it though. Some call it gut feeling, which is based on past experiences and learning but I believe includes some genetically coded "memory".


I think it explains many species eg human, dog etc "caution" and other abilities which seems to be innate, as well as abilities. The abilities of humans, as well as other species, has to be genetic, otherwise, why have selective breeding.

Some inexplicable fears some people have maybe from experiences of an ancestor?
Hmm, so I guess I "believe" it, and it seems to me that preferences and abilities and even the way we act in situations are encoded in our genes (and genes of other species).

Here's one to transfer memories.
"small RNA–based mechanism allows information from the nervous system to be transmitted to germline cells and into future generations.

While it’s known that traits involved in immunity and stress can be inherited across generations in C. elegans, the two papers are among the first to show that complex behaviors can be transmitted in the same way."

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/worm-parents-pass-on-behaviors-epigenetically-to-offspring-65988?utm_campaign=TS_DAILY%20NEWSLETTER_2019&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=73557337&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--yAyLkc3nvd2Z7Ja5EJwiOHgNbKiUQlMBZ15vMecVtShfG4_Heg Lb-m2lRUJF3XltbQ6YX8VIG4LgthSATlRGVsJ0Q3g&_hsmi=73557337

Donwulff
06-11-2019, 08:30 PM
Resurrected (or undead/epigenetic) thread! I'll just leave this here: https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2015/sep/11/why-im-sceptical-about-the-idea-of-genetically-inherited-trauma-epigenetics
Although it gets slightly off-track near the end, while I can certainly see the argument from motivation in believing such things the author makes. It's worth noting that this is one area in particular where higher mammals like humans are a class apart from C. Elegans etc. (covered to some length in above article). The mouse experiment was certainly interesting, but it's believable unlike the Assassin's Creed like "genetic memory" theories running rampant on social media. There was an interesting tweet covering the leaps of faith and their impossibility that would be needed for actual memories to be passed (epi)genetically. While I'm always game for "but perhaps we just don't know all the possible mechanisms yet", what's missing is the smoking gun, ie. there appears to be no controlled evidence for any transgenerational transfer of memories, beyond what can be explained by culture etc. The observations do not seem to match this hypothesis.

Always been curious about some very complex behavioral patterns of some animals which have never witnessed that behavior first hand, though. (This reminds me of, unfortunately, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_deprivation_experiments )

mildlycurly
06-12-2019, 12:30 PM
I've seen studies suggesting that the children and grandchildren of Holocaust survivors are more likely to have psychiatric issues than others. The same has also been suggested in the descendants of slavery. It can't have originated through hearing tales of these events- the Holocaust survivors probably wouldn't want to discuss what happened with their kids and there are no former slaves alive anymore to tell their stories- so why are these people in particular more likely to develop psychiatric disorders?

My experiences with genetic memory are far more benign. As a kid, I was obsessed with India and Indian culture. I used to actually pretend to be Indian and wear a sari and a lipstick bindi. Later on, I developed an intense fascination for Judaism. I felt like I was meant to be Jewish, even though my upbringing had been secular Christian. As it turns out, I have Indian ancestry through the Romani as well as some Ashkenazi. It seems blood knows home.