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L1983
10-15-2016, 08:31 PM
Hi all.

I tested my father through Ancestrydna so obviously didn't receive any haplogroups for him.

On uploading to Wegene, they gave him R1b1a1a2a1a. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but I'd like to know a few things: 1)what is the updated name for this haplogroup and 2) is it quite a generic European haplogroup or more concentrated in particular regions?

GoldenHind
10-16-2016, 04:15 AM
The trouble with these long R1b designations is that not everyone uses the same terminology, so I have no idea what SNP this represents.

ArmandoR1b
10-16-2016, 11:59 AM
Hi all.

I tested my father through Ancestrydna so obviously didn't receive any haplogroups for him.

On uploading to Wegene, they gave him R1b1a1a2a1a. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but I'd like to know a few things: 1)what is the updated name for this haplogroup and 2) is it quite a generic European haplogroup or more concentrated in particular regions?
Was your father tested before or after mid-May 2016? If before then, the number of Y-DNA SNPs is extremely limited and if you open his raw file everything in chromosome 24 is his Y-DNA and you will see it is only about 885 positions with an allele1 and allele2. You only use one of the alleles to compare to a database. You can compare the results with the CSV file at http://ybrowse.org/gbrowse2/gff/ then you can determine which SNPs were tested by Ancestry and what their SNPs and longhand names are and if your father is negative or positive for the SNPs tested by Ancestry.

Since WeGene is a fairly new company and R1b1a1a2a1a is a fairly new longhand name it is very unlikely to not be from the 2016 ISOGG tree at http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

So these are the SNPs your father tested positive for using the current ISOGG tree:
Position Haplogroup SNP
17844018 R1b1a1a2a1a PF6539
18248698 R1b1a1a2a1a P311
18907236 R1b1a1a2a1a PF6546


The problem is that if your father was tested prior to mid-May 2016 then the only SNPs below R1b1a1a2a1a P311 are:

Position Haplogroup SNP
8796078 R1b1a1a2a1a1 S21
16839499 R1b1a1a2a1a1c2a1 M467
22178569 R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b1 S170
2892150 R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b1a L44
14053205 R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b1a1a L525
19077409 R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b1a1a L46
2867288 R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b1a1a1a L477
7989319 R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b2a1b1b1a4b S27458
21253443 R1b1a1a2a1a2d L238


So he is negative for S21/U106 and L238 but could be positive for any of the other SNPs below R1b1a1a2a1a P311 including P312 and from there L21, U152, or DF27. Have you tested him with any other company or plan to?

GoldenHind
10-16-2016, 05:36 PM
If Armando is correct and you are P310/311+ and U106-, the odds are very high you are R1b-P312+. To answer your original question, P312 is probably the most common SNP in western Europe, It is found in Britain, Ireland, Scandinavia, France, Germany, Iberia and Italy. If you want further resolution, I suggest testing with FamilytreeDNA or Britain's DNA. The P310/311 designation (which I got from my Genographic test) is almost worthless.

L1983
10-16-2016, 05:51 PM
Thanks for the replies. He was tested with Ancestry September 2016. I haven't really thought about testing him further as was more interested in autosomal results. Was just curious as only know paternal line as far as grandfather ( although I know of course haplogroups are much much further back).

ArmandoR1b
10-16-2016, 08:31 PM
Thanks for the replies. He was tested with Ancestry September 2016. I haven't really thought about testing him further as was more interested in autosomal results. Was just curious as only know paternal line as far as grandfather ( although I know of course haplogroups are much much further back).

Just so we can try and help people in the future will you open your raw data file and tell us if the column headings have rsid, chromosome, position, allele1, and allele2 and if the chromosome column has the numbers 24 and 25 toward the bottom? If so, will you copy and paste chromosome 24 into an Excel file in order to get a count of the Y-DNA positions that are tested?

L1983
10-16-2016, 08:55 PM
Just so we can try and help people in the future will you open your raw data file and tell us if the column headings have rsid, chromosome, position, allele1, and allele2 and if the chromosome column has the numbers 24 and 25 toward the bottom? If so, will you copy and paste chromosome 24 into an Excel file in order to get a count of the Y-DNA positions that are tested?

Columin headings have those titles, chromosome column also has 24 and 25. The count for chr 24 is 1691 (hopefully that sounds right?!).

ArmandoR1b
10-16-2016, 09:42 PM
Columin headings have those titles, chromosome column also has 24 and 25. The count for chr 24 is 1691 (hopefully that sounds right?!).

Yes, that sounds right. 1691 is almost twice the number of AncestryDNA v1 which has about 885 positions tested. So there a possibility of a positive downstream SNP from R1b1a1a2a1a. If you want to send me just the chr24 positions and allele1 result I can run them through a spreadsheet using an Index Match function to get positive and negative results, SNP names, and 2016 ISOGG longhand names.

L1983
10-16-2016, 09:51 PM
Yes, that sounds right. 1691 is almost twice the number of AncestryDNA v1 which has about 885 positions tested. So there a possibility of a positive downstream SNP from R1b1a1a2a1a. If you want to send me just the chr24 positions and allele1 result I can run them through a spreadsheet using an Index Match function to get positive and negative results, SNP names, and 2016 ISOGG longhand names.

Sure! By PM/Email?

Edit: PM'd you

ArmandoR1b
10-16-2016, 11:25 PM
It's good to know that DF27, U152, and L21 were included but that P312 was not included. Like I had mentioned in my response DF27 takes a special test though so that is a possible cause of the negative result.

If you want a 3rd opinion on your results you can use https://www.promethease.com/ and for a 4th opinion you can use the process at http://www.geneticgenealogist.net/2016/01/how-to-get-ydna-haplogroup-from.html

I would like to know if anyone that has tested positive for L21 or U152 elsewhere has also had the AncestryDNA v2 test and checked their results for a positive read of the position they are positive for.

L1983
10-17-2016, 05:54 AM
It's good to know that DF27, U152, and L21 were included but that P312 was not included. Like I had mentioned in my response DF27 takes a special test though so that is a possible cause of the negative result.

If you want a 3rd opinion on your results you can use https://www.promethease.com/ and for a 4th opinion you can use the process at http://www.geneticgenealogist.net/2016/01/how-to-get-ydna-haplogroup-from.html

I would like to know if anyone that has tested positive for L21 or U152 elsewhere has also had the AncestryDNA v2 test and checked their results for a positive read of the position they are positive for.

Im going to use the website in the PM to determine at some point so thanks for that. Are you able to tentatively say what group he's in with the data right now? Y haplogroups are a bit if a riddle to me.

ArmandoR1b
10-17-2016, 10:51 AM
Im going to use the website in the PM to determine at some point so thanks for that. Are you able to tentatively say what group he's in with the data right now? Y haplogroups are a bit if a riddle to me.

The only thing that I can say is that if AncestryDNA results are accurate for L21 and U152 then your father is not positive for them but can be for the other SNPs downstream from P312 which weren't included. They can be found at http://www.ytree.net/ That includes DF27 since the AncestryDNA test result of DF27 is very possibly inaccurate. However, it is possible for your father to be positive for the SNPs downstream from P311 that are on a different branch from P312 such as the ones found at https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L151/ since those SNPs were not tested either. If you send an email to Yseq at https://www.yseq.net/contact_us.php they might be able to find an economic way to determine a subclade below P311.

edit: I forgot to mention that your father is also negative for R1b1a1a2a1a2d L238 and R1b1a1a2a1a2e DF19/S232.