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sktibo
10-17-2016, 04:01 AM
So I followed the instructions here: http://www.geneticgenealogist.net/2016/01/how-to-get-ydna-haplogroup-from.html

and using this predictor: https://ytree.morleydna.com/ settings: FTDNA format, experimental tree

It assigned me R1b1a2a1a2c1f3, or R1b-L430 (R1b-PF825). A quick google search indicated that this is within the British Isles Y haplogroup, but I'm not so sure about that as my surname is a common French one, and I've traced my paternal line to West-Central France in the 1600's. Is it normal for French people to have these "British" Y groups? Am I correct in my assumption that this is a "British" Y line? Is the haplogroup predictor I've used accurate at all?

Any information helps, I hardly know anything about Y-DNA.

Thank you very much

DillonResearcher
10-17-2016, 08:10 AM
Hi Sktibo,

Have you uploaded your STR results to YSearch? On YSearch there are some modal haplotypes (average STR results for a particular haplogroup) and so you can see which modal haplotype you match most closely. My closest modal haplotype on YSearch is R-L2 which was absolutely right, so it's worth a look.

From a quick look online PR825 does indeed seem to have been found in those with British origins but I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean that the haplogroup predictor is wrong. There is of course always the chance of an NPE which could confuse things but more likely is that there was movement between the people you descend from and Britain. Also, your DNA may be representing a line which stayed in France when the ancestors of other PR825 people may have moved to Britain at some stage. Basically, I think that it is difficult to categorically call a SNP British, French, Dutch.

The only way to be sure of course would be to SNP test either with a SNP pack or even better a Big Y/Full Genomes test.

Hopefully that helps a bit.

sktibo
10-17-2016, 09:27 AM
Hi Sktibo,

Have you uploaded your STR results to YSearch? On YSearch there are some modal haplotypes (average STR results for a particular haplogroup) and so you can see which modal haplotype you match most closely. My closest modal haplotype on YSearch is R-L2 which was absolutely right, so it's worth a look.

From a quick look online PR825 does indeed seem to have been found in those with British origins but I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean that the haplogroup predictor is wrong. There is of course always the chance of an NPE which could confuse things but more likely is that there was movement between the people you descend from and Britain. Also, your DNA may be representing a line which stayed in France when the ancestors of other PR825 people may have moved to Britain at some stage. Basically, I think that it is difficult to categorically call a SNP British, French, Dutch.

The only way to be sure of course would be to SNP test either with a SNP pack or even better a Big Y/Full Genomes test.

Hopefully that helps a bit.

How do I upload STR results to Ysearch? (assuming that's ysearch.org) I clicked around the site a bit but I'm just not sure what to do with it.

thank you

ArmandoR1b
10-17-2016, 11:20 AM
So I followed the instructions here: http://www.geneticgenealogist.net/2016/01/how-to-get-ydna-haplogroup-from.html

and using this predictor: https://ytree.morleydna.com/ settings: FTDNA format, experimental tree

It assigned me R1b1a2a1a2c1f3, or R1b-L430 (R1b-PF825). A quick google search indicated that this is within the British Isles Y haplogroup, but I'm not so sure about that as my surname is a common French one, and I've traced my paternal line to West-Central France in the 1600's. Is it normal for French people to have these "British" Y groups? Am I correct in my assumption that this is a "British" Y line? Is the haplogroup predictor I've used accurate at all?

Any information helps, I hardly know anything about Y-DNA.

Thank you very much

Does your raw DNA file show you positive for L21 15654428 with a G and not C allele? I can't find positions 17596023 L430 (G>C) or 17054132 PF825.2 (G>A) in another AncestryDNA raw DNA file. You should look for those.

A major problem with any SNP that has a .1 or .2 at the end is that the process you used is not able to determine which one you actually belong to. Another major problem is that the Morley website uses the phylogeny from the 2013 ISOGG tree and not the more updated, albeit, incomplete 2016 ISOGG tree.

Will you provide a screenshot of the Morley results?

ArmandoR1b
10-17-2016, 11:22 AM
How do I upload STR results to Ysearch? (assuming that's ysearch.org) I clicked around the site a bit but I'm just not sure what to do with it.

thank you

Ysearch does not do haplogroup predictions. All you can do is see if you have a close STR match and if that person has had SNP testing and posted their SNP testing results. Basing your haplogroup off of a match is not foolproof. You need actual SNP testing. The SNP predictor based off of STR markers at http://www.nevgen.org/ isn't 100% accurate even with 67 markers. It is much less accurate with 37 or less markers.

DillonResearcher
10-17-2016, 11:28 AM
Ysearch does not do haplogroup predictions. All you can do is see if you have a close STR match and if that person has had SNP testing and posted their SNP testing results. Basing your haplogroup off of a match is not foolproof. You need actual SNP testing. The SNP predictor based off of STR markers at http://www.nevgen.org/ isn't 100% accurate even with 67 markers. It is much less accurate with 37 or less markers.

YSearch do have modal haplotypes though for quite a few haplogroups which I have found work well as good guides to predicting a haplotype. For me it was very accurate with my closest modal haplotypes being L2, then U152 and then P312. After Big Y testing my terminal SNP was shown to be BY3506 which is below L2.

ArmandoR1b
10-17-2016, 11:54 AM
YSearch do have modal haplotypes though for quite a few haplogroups which I have found work well as good guides to predicting a haplotype. For me it was very accurate with my closest modal haplotypes being L2, then U152 and then P312. After Big Y testing my terminal SNP was shown to be BY3506 which is below L2.

Yes, for some instances it can be good. But overall it is not so much. Especially not for people from the continent which as a lot fewer testers. There have been a very high percentage of people that could never get an accurate prediction of their subclade. He has never even posted that he has had STR testing which currently is only done with FTDNA and Yseq. He has only indicated that he has had AncestryDNA testing which tests a limited amount of Y-DNA SNPs. Actual SNP testing is much better and once he posts a screenshot and answers to the questions we'll at least know that he is really L21 but maybe not really R1b-L430 or R1b-PF825.

GTC
10-17-2016, 12:53 PM
How do I upload STR results to Ysearch?

If you have tested with FTDNA, then there should be a link to Ysearch on your Y-Matches page which supposedly uploads your STRs automatically to Ysearch, however I'm not sure if that's working properly these days.

The alternative is to go directly to the ysearch.org site and use the Create a New User tab to manually enter your STR values.

ArmandoR1b
10-17-2016, 01:17 PM
sktibo, I found a thread (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8577-Different-gedmatch-results-for-23andme-kit-VS-Ancestrydna-kit) where you said that you tested with 23andme. What was your Y-DNA result there? They also test for L21. They would have listed you as R1b1b2a1a2f or R1b1b2a1a2f* if you really are positive for L21.

sktibo
10-17-2016, 08:57 PM
Thanking everyone for their responses here,


sktibo, I found a thread (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8577-Different-gedmatch-results-for-23andme-kit-VS-Ancestrydna-kit) where you said that you tested with 23andme. What was your Y-DNA result there? They also test for L21. They would have listed you as R1b1b2a1a2f or R1b1b2a1a2f* if you really are positive for L21.

I don't think I am L21 positive, my 23andme browser gave me ancestral, not derived, for that marker, and it didn't define my haplogroup further than the generic r1b1b2a1a IIRC... I also did a 5$ promethease test in which the highest marker I got was the P311 (rs9785659). If I'm correct, this also means it's just undefined.
While I'm at it, this was also found on the promethease report

" gs262 R1b1a2a1a subclades with hotspots around Normandy, and Milan R1b1a2a1a also known as P312, based on the limited information available with an Ancestry.com test Subclades such as L21 or U152 are also possible *L21 http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-L21.gif *U152 http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-S28.gif http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.dnaresearch.generalresearch/772.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.3.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx"

I don't know if this is found on all of them or if it's specific to mine.

Screenshot of the Morley Report.. unsure if this is what is needed. This was using the AncestryDNA results, the 23andme results were the same except the first prediction was R1b1a2a1a R1b-L11 (R1b-L151, R1b-YSC0000082).

12209

ArmandoR1b
10-17-2016, 09:24 PM
Thanking everyone for their responses here,
I don't think I am L21 positive, my 23andme browser gave me ancestral, not derived, for that marker, and it didn't define my haplogroup further than the generic r1b1b2a1a IIRC... I also did a 5$ promethease test in which the highest marker I got was the P311 (rs9785659). If I'm correct, this also means it's just undefined.

If 23andme gave you r1b1b2a1a then you are definitely negative for U106, L21, and U152. I have never seen a person get a false negative for those SNPs at 23andme. The only additional SNPs almost directly downstream from P312 tested by AncestryDNA v2 are DF19 and L238.

These are the SNPs tested by 23andme v4 (except for P312)

R1b1b2 rs9786153 T->C R1b-M269
R1b1b2a rs9786142 T->A R1b-L49
R1b1b2a1 rs9786140 G->A R1b-L51
R1b1b2a1a rs13304168 C->T L52 (phylogenetically equivalent to L11/S127, L151, P310/S129, P311/S128
R1b1b2a1a1 rs16981293 C>T (M405/S21/U106) R1b-U106
R1b1b2a1a1a rs17222279 G->A (M467/S29/U198) downstream of R1b-U106
R1b1b2a1a1d rs13303755 G->T (L48) downstream of R1b-U106
R1b1b2a1a1d1 rs34283263 G->A (L47) downstream of R1b-U106
R1b1b2a1a1d1a rs34738655 G->A L44
R1b1b2a1a1d1a1 rs35760092 T->G L45, L46, L164
R1b1b2a1a2 rs34276300 C->A (P312) not tested in v3 or v4
R1b1b2a1a2b i3000029 A->T M153 downstream of DF27
R1b1b2a1a2c i3000043 G->A M167/SRY2627 downstream of DF27
R1b1b2a1a2d rs1236440 C->T (S28) R1b-U152 downstream of P312
R1b1b2a1a2d3* rs2566671 C->T R1b-L2 downstream of R1b-U152
R1b1b2a1a2d3a rs7067305 G->A R1b-L20 downstream of R1b-L2
R1b1b2a1a2f rs11799226 C->G (L21) R1b-L21 downstream of P312
R1b1b2a1a2f2 rs20321 G->A R1b-M222 downstream of R1b-L21




While I'm at it, this was also found on the promethease report

" gs262 R1b1a2a1a subclades with hotspots around Normandy, and Milan R1b1a2a1a also known as P312, based on the limited information available with an Ancestry.com test Subclades such as L21 or U152 are also possible *L21 http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-L21.gif *U152 http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-S28.gif http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.dnaresearch.generalresearch/772.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.3.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx"

I don't know if this is found on all of them or if it's specific to mine.
P312 is not tested by AncestryDNA or by 23andme unless you had the 23andme v2 test. Your 23andme result already shows that you are negative for both L21 and U152 so it looks like Promethease hasn't updated it's analysis. Was the Promethease report from an AncestryDNA or a 23andme file?




Screenshot of the Morley Report.. unsure if this is what is needed. This was using the AncestryDNA results, the 23andme results were the same except the first prediction was R1b1a2a1a R1b-L11 (R1b-L151, R1b-YSC0000082).

12209

I actually need the bottom part of that. Go to the same page then scroll down on the right until you get to the bottom. Then get that screenshot and post it.

Have you had any STR testing with FTDNA or Yseq?

sktibo
10-17-2016, 09:47 PM
Promethease report was ancestry DNA. my 23andme is v3, fwiw. No y testing with ftdna or any other, only 23.
I'll get the bottom part of the Morley report posted later today. Thank you again for your help

sktibo
10-18-2016, 06:41 AM
12222

Bottom of the morley report

ArmandoR1b
10-18-2016, 04:37 PM
12222

Bottom of the morley report

You can see from that report that you are negative for L21 because it is in a red box. That is also in agreement with your 23andme result. Under normal circumstances anything downstream from L21 should automatically be considered negative unless you are positive for a lot of SNPs between L21 and R1b-PF825.

Also notice that L430 is not in a green box so the program did not report a positive for that SNP so there was never a reason to mention that SNP. R1b-PF825 is in a green box but since there are two mutations at that same position one being PF825.1 G>A which is for haplogroup A0~ and the other PF825.2 for haplogroup R1b but that is also G>A and both of them are at position 17054132.

I finally found the problem though. I had to run another kit through the same process that you did but in Step Three: Download Felix Immanuel's 23andMe to Y-SNP Converter I chose SAVE DISPLAYED TABLE instead of Save Y-SNPs

Then I looked for position 17054132 and it shows M9194/PF825 Yes rs567410971 Y 17054132 G

When I look up M9194 at Ybrowse and at ISOGG it is also G>A

The displayed table and the AncestryDNA v2 raw file both show a result of G.

Felix Immanuel's 23andMe to Y-SNP Converter gave you a false positive for R1b-PF825.

Now if you want to find your subclade you should get the YSEQ R1b Orientation Panel (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=16349) or the LivingDNA test, The Yseq.net is cheaper and faster though. You are mostly likely positive for DF27.

sktibo
10-18-2016, 05:45 PM
You can see from that report that you are negative for L21 because it is in a red box. That is also in agreement with your 23andme result. Under normal circumstances anything downstream from L21 should automatically be considered negative unless you are positive for a lot of SNPs between L21 and R1b-PF825.

Also notice that L430 is not in a green box so the program did not report a positive for that SNP so there was never a reason to mention that SNP. R1b-PF825 is in a green box but since there are two mutations at that same position one being PF825.1 G>A which is for haplogroup A0~ and the other PF825.2 for haplogroup R1b but that is also G>A and both of them are at position 17054132.

I finally found the problem though. I had to run another kit through the same process that you did but in Step Three: Download Felix Immanuel's 23andMe to Y-SNP Converter I chose SAVE DISPLAYED TABLE instead of Save Y-SNPs

Then I looked for position 17054132 and it shows M9194/PF825 Yes rs567410971 Y 17054132 G

When I look up M9194 at Ybrowse and at ISOGG it is also G>A

The displayed table and the AncestryDNA v2 raw file both show a result of G.

Felix Immanuel's 23andMe to Y-SNP Converter gave you a false positive for R1b-PF825.

Now if you want to find your subclade you should get the YSEQ R1b Orientation Panel (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=16349) or the LivingDNA test, The Yseq.net is cheaper and faster though. You are mostly likely positive for DF27.

Interesting! Thank you for all your help with this. I don't think I'll order from Yseq because at the moment I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of my living DNA kit and hopefully It'll show me my Y haplogroup. DF 27 is what I would expect as my most distant paternal ancestor is from the Ile de Re, France. Previously I thought that I might be U-106 because my surname has a possible Visigothic origin, but I suppose that's not likely to be the case. You're a wealth of knowledge on this stuff Armando, and I thank you again for your help in this matter.

ArmandoR1b
10-18-2016, 07:46 PM
Interesting! Thank you for all your help with this. I don't think I'll order from Yseq because at the moment I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of my living DNA kit and hopefully It'll show me my Y haplogroup. DF 27 is what I would expect as my most distant paternal ancestor is from the Ile de Re, France. Previously I thought that I might be U-106 because my surname has a possible Visigothic origin, but I suppose that's not likely to be the case. You're a wealth of knowledge on this stuff Armando, and I thank you again for your help in this matter.
Just something to keep in mind if LivingDNA gives you a result of P312. I doubt they are going to test DF27 accurately but no doubt that they will accurately test a lot of SNPs downstream from DF27. The problem is that you can be negative for all of the SNPs downstream from DF27 tested by LivingDNA. It would be at that point that you would want to order a DF27 test from Yseq.

razyn
02-28-2017, 02:05 PM
I must admit that this topic has been, and probably will continue to be, below my radar most of the time. It has cropped up in recent conversations on DF27, and more specifically DF17, topics; so I looked into it just a bit. Particularly in the case of the NevGen Predictor. I think this page has not been cited yet: http://www.nevgen.org/AboutNevGen.html

It is lengthy, detailed, and informative. There have been several updates to the predictor, and the most recent ones are summarized more or less as they occur, at the bottom of the above-linked web page. If you want to catch up on glitches found, and improvements made, since this (Anthrogenica) thread was last updated, scroll to the bottom and read the more recent entries that discuss any haplogroup that might interest you.

ArmandoR1b
02-28-2017, 08:44 PM
I must admit that this topic has been, and probably will continue to be, below my radar most of the time. It has cropped up in recent conversations on DF27, and more specifically DF17, topics; so I looked into it just a bit. Particularly in the case of the NevGen Predictor. I think this page has not been cited yet: http://www.nevgen.org/AboutNevGen.html

It is lengthy, detailed, and informative. There have been several updates to the predictor, and the most recent ones are summarized more or less as they occur, at the bottom of the above-linked web page. If you want to catch up on glitches found, and improvements made, since this (Anthrogenica) thread was last updated, scroll to the bottom and read the more recent entries that discuss any haplogroup that might interest you.

I have tried the updated version of Nevgen in the past few weeks with more than a dozen kits that have already had SNP testing, some with 67 markers and some with 37 markers, and there are still a lot of them that they don't predict accurately. I have found that it's only some deep subclades that are fairly accurate.

vettor
02-28-2017, 08:53 PM
If 23andme gave you r1b1b2a1a then you are definitely negative for U106, L21, and U152. I have never seen a person get a false negative for those SNPs at 23andme. The only additional SNPs almost directly downstream from P312 tested by AncestryDNA v2 are DF19 and L238.

These are the SNPs tested by 23andme v4 (except for P312)

R1b1b2 rs9786153 T->C R1b-M269
R1b1b2a rs9786142 T->A R1b-L49
R1b1b2a1 rs9786140 G->A R1b-L51
R1b1b2a1a rs13304168 C->T L52 (phylogenetically equivalent to L11/S127, L151, P310/S129, P311/S128
R1b1b2a1a1 rs16981293 C>T (M405/S21/U106) R1b-U106
R1b1b2a1a1a rs17222279 G->A (M467/S29/U198) downstream of R1b-U106
R1b1b2a1a1d rs13303755 G->T (L48) downstream of R1b-U106
R1b1b2a1a1d1 rs34283263 G->A (L47) downstream of R1b-U106
R1b1b2a1a1d1a rs34738655 G->A L44
R1b1b2a1a1d1a1 rs35760092 T->G L45, L46, L164
R1b1b2a1a2 rs34276300 C->A (P312) not tested in v3 or v4
R1b1b2a1a2b i3000029 A->T M153 downstream of DF27
R1b1b2a1a2c i3000043 G->A M167/SRY2627 downstream of DF27
R1b1b2a1a2d rs1236440 C->T (S28) R1b-U152 downstream of P312
R1b1b2a1a2d3* rs2566671 C->T R1b-L2 downstream of R1b-U152
R1b1b2a1a2d3a rs7067305 G->A R1b-L20 downstream of R1b-L2
R1b1b2a1a2f rs11799226 C->G (L21) R1b-L21 downstream of P312
R1b1b2a1a2f2 rs20321 G->A R1b-M222 downstream of R1b-L21



P312 is not tested by AncestryDNA or by 23andme unless you had the 23andme v2 test. Your 23andme result already shows that you are negative for both L21 and U152 so it looks like Promethease hasn't updated it's analysis. Was the Promethease report from an AncestryDNA or a 23andme file?




I actually need the bottom part of that. Go to the same page then scroll down on the right until you get to the bottom. Then get that screenshot and post it.

Have you had any STR testing with FTDNA or Yseq?

On a side note...23andme in DNA matchings has the first five people ( after family ) who match my father are noted as ydna of
R1b1b2a1a1d1a rs34738655 G->A L44 ............

Does this indicate anything in regards to relations outside of my fathers ydna of T-L131 and mtdna of T2b ?

ArmandoR1b
02-28-2017, 10:10 PM
On a side note...23andme in DNA matchings has the first five people ( after family ) who match my father are noted as ydna of
R1b1b2a1a1d1a rs34738655 G->A L44 ............

Does this indicate anything in regards to relations outside of my fathers ydna of T-L131 and mtdna of T2b ?

Just that if they are also positive for upstream SNPs then they are positive for that subclade.

kikkk
03-01-2017, 08:18 PM
Hello:)
Below, 2 caps of my closest Y-DNA matches and STR values, could you please help me figure out my sub-clade?
http://i.imgur.com/EacWgfu.png
http://i.imgur.com/PsoC6aS.png


Thanks!

Dewsloth
03-01-2017, 08:30 PM
I have tried the updated version of Nevgen in the past few weeks with more than a dozen kits that have already had SNP testing, some with 67 markers and some with 37 markers, and there are still a lot of them that they don't predict accurately. I have found that it's only some deep subclades that are fairly accurate.

Nevgen was a "miss" at 67 for me:

I am P312>DF19> DF88>S4268>Z17112, but it doesn't appear to test for that, specifically. While it does test for some subclades below like P312>DF19>DF88>S4268>Z17112>S17075, Nevgen thinks I have zero chance of being in one of those subclades below z17112, and instead lists my most likely hg as DF27 (specifically DF27>ZZ12> ZZ39)! Mind you it also says "Probability of unsupported subclade: 97.50%" So it's not truly insisting on a wrong HG, just missing the correct one.

ArmandoR1b
03-02-2017, 04:09 AM
Hello:)
Below, 2 caps of my closest Y-DNA matches and STR values, could you please help me figure out my sub-clade?
http://i.imgur.com/EacWgfu.png

Thanks!You need the M343 & M269 Backbone SNP Pack.

ArmandoR1b
03-02-2017, 04:12 AM
Nevgen was a "miss" at 67 for me:

I am P312>DF19> DF88>S4268>Z17112, but it doesn't appear to test for that, specifically. While it does test for some subclades below like P312>DF19>DF88>S4268>Z17112>S17075, Nevgen thinks I have zero chance of being in one of those subclades below z17112, and instead lists my most likely hg as DF27 (specifically DF27>ZZ12> ZZ39)! Mind you it also says "Probability of unsupported subclade: 97.50%" So it's not truly insisting on a wrong HG, just missing the correct one.97.50% probability of the wrong subclade is way too high.

Nicetucu
03-02-2017, 07:53 PM
I've come up with the same results as the OP. I did three screen shots of Morely to show my results thus far.

Edit this will have to wait I guess a few posts till I can upload an image..actually, it's three pics. I will post a bit and add it later I guess.

Dewsloth
03-02-2017, 08:10 PM
97.50% probability of the wrong subclade is way too high.

No kidding! It reminds me of Lloyd Christmas:
http://www.storyepic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Chance.gif

Webb
03-02-2017, 08:53 PM
Mine was spot on.

rms2
03-02-2017, 09:48 PM
Hello:)
Below, 2 caps of my closest Y-DNA matches and STR values, could you please help me figure out my sub-clade?
http://i.imgur.com/EacWgfu.png
http://i.imgur.com/PsoC6aS.png


Thanks!

Twelve markers are nowhere near enough to predict one's subclade accurately. However, with that understood, and just taking a stab at it with what you have, your best bet seems to be R1b-U106.

That could absolutely be all wrong, but you do have an exact match with someone who is R1b-Z9, and Z9 is a subclade of L48, which is a subclade of U106 (jumping to the major branch). You also have 390=23, which is quite common among L48 men.

Once again, though, twelve markers are not enough. I have 390=23 and 12-marker matches with U106 guys, and I am U106-.

You are going to need SNP testing if you really want to know your subclade.

ArmandoR1b
03-02-2017, 10:37 PM
Nevgen was a "miss" at 67 for me:
Mind you it also says "Probability of unsupported subclade: 97.50%" So it's not truly insisting on a wrong HG, just missing the correct one.


No kidding! It reminds me of Lloyd Christmas:
http://www.storyepic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Chance.gif
It's just as bad as your comment that I bolded you goofball

Dewsloth
03-02-2017, 10:50 PM
It's just as bad as your comment that I bolded you goofball

You seem upset. If I have hurt your feelings, I apologize.

Nicetucu
04-20-2017, 08:33 AM
1536015361

Sorry, I forgot to up these a little while back. They match closely to the OP. I used Ancestrydna over the holidays for the data. Ancestry has me at 42% Great Britain, 41% Ireland, 7% Europe West, 5% Europe East, 3% Iberian Peninsula, 2% Scandinavia. The reason for the breakdown is I'm adopted and was born and raised in Toronto Canada. Very new to this and have mapped out my maternal side quite far. Paternal no f-ing idea. You could have a clue perhaps. If not, I enjoy the freakish similarity.

TigerMW
04-20-2017, 01:09 PM
You need the M343 & M269 Backbone SNP Pack.
It's on sale now for $79, $20 off.

GoldenHind
04-20-2017, 05:33 PM
Deleted

Nicetucu
04-21-2017, 04:10 PM
I'm a little curious to your post that was deleted GoldenHind. More in a joking manner of course.