PDA

View Full Version : R1a-L657 Y6+



Reza
11-02-2016, 10:25 AM
So it transpires an error was made with my yseq R1a panel results from January which categorised me as Y40*.

I received notification a month ago that, according to Thomas, they had the wrong definition for the Y40 position (one base to the right) and I am now Y40 negative.

Subsequently, my results have come back as L657+ Y6+ (Y7- Y9-). No further downstream markers to Y6 have been checked.

I had a look at the yfull tree, appears to be a wide spread through the subcontinent in terms of distribution.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L657/

Any further information available on the different L657 subclades?

parasar
11-02-2016, 06:35 PM
So it transpires an error was made with my yseq R1a panel results from January which categorised me as Y40*.

I received notification a month ago that, according to Thomas, they had the wrong definition for the Y40 position (one base to the right) and I am now Y40 negative.

Subsequently, my results have come back as L657+ Y6+ (Y7- Y9-). No further downstream markers to Y6 have been checked.

I had a look at the yfull tree, appears to be a wide spread through the subcontinent in terms of distribution.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L657/

Any further information available on the different L657 subclades?

Thanks for the update.
I heard from another person who had the same happen.
And from another who had Y40+ confirmed.
Both YSeq tested and from South Asia.

So looks like YSeq revisited their Y40 tests.

Coldmountains
11-02-2016, 08:16 PM
So it transpires an error was made with my yseq R1a panel results from January which categorised me as Y40*.

I received notification a month ago that, according to Thomas, they had the wrong definition for the Y40 position (one base to the right) and I am now Y40 negative.

Subsequently, my results have come back as L657+ Y6+ (Y7- Y9-). No further downstream markers to Y6 have been checked.

I had a look at the yfull tree, appears to be a wide spread through the subcontinent in terms of distribution.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L657/

Any further information available on the different L657 subclades?

I am also Y6+ (my paternal line is Afghan Pashtun). Y6 is common in all of India like Y9 but Y9 seems to be more frequent. Some Y6 is also found in Iran, Afghanistan,Baluchistan, Iraq, Arabia,...

Reza
11-03-2016, 06:03 PM
I am also Y6+ (my paternal line is Afghan Pashtun). Y6 is common in all of India like Y9 but Y9 seems to be more frequent. Some Y6 is also found in Iran, Afghanistan,Baluchistan, Iraq, Arabia,...

Interesting! Did you get any further downstream markers checked?

The TMRCA of 3700 years fits around the presumed entry date of the indo aryans into the subcontinent . . . Do you think the Iranian / Middle Eastern ones represent back migration?

Parasar, I was wondering what had prompted them to check 6 months down the line.

Coldmountains
11-03-2016, 08:23 PM
Interesting! Did you get any further downstream markers checked?

The TMRCA of 3700 years fits around the presumed entry date of the indo aryans into the subcontinent . . . Do you think the Iranian / Middle Eastern ones represent back migration?

Parasar, I was wondering what had prompted them to check 6 months down the line.

Not yet but i am interested in testing more markers. Yes Y6+ was probably born somewhere around South Central Asia(BMAC). Parasar knows more about this but as far as i know Y6 and Y7 seem to be Proto-Indo-Aryan markers carried by the first Proto-Indo-Aryans which migrated into South and West Asia. But as long as we have no ancient dna from Central and South Asia we can not exclude that Proto-Indo-Aryans carried also a bit Z2124 or that Proto-Iranics had also some L657. The first wave of Indo-Iranians from the Eurasian steppe were Proto-Indo-Aryans which migrated during the Bronze Age not just to India but also to Afghanistan, Iran, Syria,... . Interestingly the first documented historical appereance of Indo-Aryans was in Syria (Mitanni) where an small Indo-Aryan elite influenced or even ruled the local Hurrian-speaking population so that some theonyms, proper names and other mainly military terms exhibited close similarities to Indo-Aryan. In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni, the deities Mitra, Varuna, Indra, and Nasatya were invoked. Later Iranians assimilated or pushed back most Indo-Aryans which lived outside of India or the Indo-Aryans became assimilated by the local population like in Syria where the Indo-Aryans quickly adopted the local non-Indo-European languages. In Afghanistan Indo-Aryans survived longer and still exist in significant numbers in the eastern part of the country. But L657 is found everyhere in the country among all ethnic groups.


I think most of L657 in Iran is "local" and probably from Proto-Indo-Aryans. Some areas in Iran have almost as much as L657 as Z2124. Especially in Baluchistan L657 seems to be higher than Z2124. In Afghanistan most L657 is probably from Proto-Indo-Aryans which later became assimilated by Iranics but some could be from Indian back migrations during the Kushan age or later. L657 in West Asia has many sources in my opinion some could be from Proto-Indo-Aryan adventures which moved far west and were absorbed by the locals but much of it looks like it arrived recently in the post-islamic period with Persian, Baluch, Afghan or Indian immigrants .

Reza
11-10-2016, 02:39 AM
Not yet but i am interested in testing more markers. Yes Y6+ was probably born somewhere around South Central Asia(BMAC). Parasar knows more about this but as far as i know Y6 and Y7 seem to be Proto-Indo-Aryan markers carried by the first Proto-Indo-Aryans which migrated into South and West Asia. But as long as we have no ancient dna from Central and South Asia we can not exclude that Proto-Indo-Aryans carried also a bit Z2124 or that Proto-Iranics had also some L657. The first wave of Indo-Iranians from the Eurasian steppe were Proto-Indo-Aryans which migrated during the Bronze Age not just to India but also to Afghanistan, Iran, Syria,... . Interestingly the first documented historical appereance of Indo-Aryans was in Syria (Mitanni) where an small Indo-Aryan elite influenced or even ruled the local Hurrian-speaking population so that some theonyms, proper names and other mainly military terms exhibited close similarities to Indo-Aryan. In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni, the deities Mitra, Varuna, Indra, and Nasatya were invoked. Later Iranians assimilated or pushed back most Indo-Aryans which lived outside of India or the Indo-Aryans became assimilated by the local population like in Syria where the Indo-Aryans quickly adopted the local non-Indo-European languages. In Afghanistan Indo-Aryans survived longer and still exist in significant numbers in the eastern part of the country. But L657 is found everyhere in the country among all ethnic groups.


I think most of L657 in Iran is "local" and probably from Proto-Indo-Aryans. Some areas in Iran have almost as much as L657 as Z2124. Especially in Baluchistan L657 seems to be higher than Z2124. In Afghanistan most L657 is probably from Proto-Indo-Aryans which later became assimilated by Iranics but some could be from Indian back migrations during the Kushan age or later. L657 in West Asia has many sources in my opinion some could be from Proto-Indo-Aryan adventures which moved far west and were absorbed by the locals but much of it looks like it arrived recently in the post-islamic period with Persian, Baluch, Afghan or Indian immigrants .

Thank you for the comprehensive reply. Regarding the Mitanni, is the Indo-Aryan superstrate considered to have arrived directly off the steppe? Prior to the arrival of Indo-Iranians/early Iranians onto the Iranian plateau?

Is it surprising that there isn't more regional differentiation in the L657 or Z2124 subclades?

I still haven't quite understood how, should L657 actually be an Indo-Aryan marker, it is present in non caste, tribal S Indians. Did it spread prior to the formalisation of a caste based system?

It'll be interesting when the Rakhigarhi DNA results are finally released. Alot of questions - now just need the answers!

Coldmountains
11-14-2016, 11:03 PM
Thank you for the comprehensive reply. Regarding the Mitanni, is the Indo-Aryan superstrate considered to have arrived directly off the steppe? Prior to the arrival of Indo-Iranians/early Iranians onto the Iranian plateau?

Is it surprising that there isn't more regional differentiation in the L657 or Z2124 subclades?

I still haven't quite understood how, should L657 actually be an Indo-Aryan marker, it is present in non caste, tribal S Indians. Did it spread prior to the formalisation of a caste based system?

It'll be interesting when the Rakhigarhi DNA results are finally released. Alot of questions - now just need the answers!

As far as i know the Indo-Aryan elite of the Mitanni were descendants of an Indo-Aryan group, which instead of going eastward to India came via Iran to the Fertile Crescent .The Indo-Aryan superstrate was derived from an Indo-Aryan language which was more archaic and more conservative than Vedic Sanskrit.

"Rather, is obvious that the remnants of early Indo-Aryan in Mitanni belong to a pre-Rgvedic stage of Indo-Aryan, as is seen in the preservation of Indo-Iranian -zdh- > Vedic -edh-, in priyamazdha (bi-ir-ia-ma-as'-da) : Vedic priyamedha : Avest. -mazda. These texts also still have Indo-Iranian ai > Vedic e (aika : eka in aikavartana). Another early item is the retention of Indo-Iranian z'h > Vedic h in vas'ana(s')s'aya = [vaz'hanasya] cf. Ved. vāhana- . Importantly, Mitanni-Indo-Aryan has no trace of retroflexion"

Most Iranics arrived after Indo-Aryans in South and West Asia. Indeed, some of the rather indirect IA influx into the Near East may have been earlier than the one visible in Mitanni.
The Kassite conquerors of Mesopotamia (c. 1677-1152 BCE) have a sun god Šuriiaš , 164 perhaps also the Marut and maybe even Bhaga ( Bugaš ?), as well as the personal name Abirat(t)aš ( Abhiratha ); but otherwise, the vocabulary of their largely unknown language hardly shows any IA influence, not even in their many designations for the horse and horse names

The region was still mainly Pre-Indo-European when Iranics arrived there despite the early presence of Indo-Aryans . Aryanization was a slow process and the i think the major admixing event happened before the caste system was fully established in his current strict form. Proto-Indo-Aryans had surely some kind of social hierachy but the caste system in India evolved later from both aryan and local traditions. Also despite all the social stigma inter caste mixing happened to some extent. The first Indo-Aryans which arrived in South Asia were likely not "glorious" conquerors but traders, mercenaries, adventurers, maybe even slaves. As long as Indo-Aryans were a tiny minority they quickly mixed with the locals and were assimilated but after some time they got more and more numerous and powerful so that they could have the power to subjugate the locals. Rigveda does not show a clear-cut division between the various tribes/populations of non-local(Aryan) and of local nature, but it clearly distinguishes between arya and dasyu. It is unclear, who exactly were the dasyu, many equate them with the Pre-Aryan locals, but i am sceptical about this. Actually many of the tribal designations and names of important persons in Rigveda seem to be of non-Aryan local origin.

L657 and Z2124 are poorly studied and we have not so many samples from South Asia or Central/West Asia. There is more regional differentation in the Z2124 subclades (some special clades can be linked with Jews, Tatars/Turks, Pashtuns,..) but they are also much better studied than L657 clades.

Gravetto-Danubian
11-15-2016, 12:00 AM
As far as i know the Indo-Aryan elite of the Mitanni were descendants of an Indo-Aryan group, which instead of going eastward to India came via Iran to the Fertile Crescent .The Indo-Aryan superstrate was derived from an Indo-Aryan language which was more archaic and more conservative than Vedic Sanskrit.

Most Iranics arrived after Indo-Aryans in South and West Asia. Indeed, some of the rather indirect IA influx into the Near East may have been earlier than the one visible in Mitanni.

The region was still mainly Pre-Indo-European when Iranics arrived there despite the early presence of Indo-Aryans . Aryanization was a slow process and the i think the major admixing event happened before the caste system was fully established in his current strict form. Proto-Indo-Aryans had surely some kind of social hierachy but the caste system in India evolved later from both aryan and local traditions. Also despite all the social stigma inter caste mixing happened to some extent. The first Indo-Aryans which arrived in South Asia were likely not "glorious" conquerors but traders, mercenaries, adventurers, maybe even slaves. As long as Indo-Aryans were a tiny minority they quickly mixed with the locals and were assimilated but after some time they got more and more numerous and powerful so that they could have the power to subjugate the locals. Rigveda does not show a clear-cut division between the various tribes/populations of non-local(Aryan) and of local nature, but it clearly distinguishes between arya and dasyu. It is unclear, who exactly were the dasyu, many equate them with the Pre-Aryan locals, but i am sceptical about this. Actually many of the tribal designations and names of important persons in Rigveda seem to be of non-Aryan local origin.

L657 and Z2124 are poorly studied and we have not so many samples from South Asia or Central/West Asia. There is more regional differentation in the Z2124 subclades (some special clades can be linked with Jews, Tatars/Turks, Pashtuns,..) but they are also much better studied than L657 clades.

When do it think the earliest Vedas were being formed ?

Coldmountains
11-20-2016, 12:51 PM
When do it think the earliest Vedas were being formed ?

I am not an expert about this but as far as i know around 1500 B.C maybe even later


According to recent archaeological research the disappearance of the Indus cities is determined at 1900 B.C.; on the other hand, the AV is the first text mentioning iron which
was introduced in North India at c. 1100 BCE. The RV, which no longer knows of the Indus cities but only mentions ruins , thus could have been composed
during the long period between 1990 and 1100 BCE. An ad quem date for the RV is provided by the mentioning of Vedic gods (Varua, Mitra, Indra, Nåsatya = Aśvin) in the Hittite-
Mitanni agreement of c. 1380 BCE. The RV, however, presents, for the greatest part, only a "snapshot" picture of c. 5-6 generations of poets and kings who lived closer towards the end of
the period (cf. Witzel, forthc. a)

pegasus
11-21-2016, 12:28 AM
I think Rig Veda was compiled 1700-1500 BC but a lot of poems in it are probably older as the world they paint is very much the border regions between the Steppe and Central Asia.
The rest of Vedas seem to be composed in the early Iron Age.

Reza
05-21-2017, 07:01 PM
I am also Y6+ (my paternal line is Afghan Pashtun). Y6 is common in all of India like Y9 but Y9 seems to be more frequent. Some Y6 is also found in Iran, Afghanistan,Baluchistan, Iraq, Arabia,...

I ended up testing further downstream markers through YSEQ.

Y6 > Y920* - which on yfull has GIH, BEB and STU samples .

Negative for Y928, Y906, YP95633.


Yfull tree (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z94/)

Coldmountains
05-21-2017, 07:44 PM
I ended up testing further downstream markers through YSEQ.

Y6 > Y920* - which on yfull has GIH, BEB and STU samples .

Negative for Y928, Y906, YP95633.


Yfull tree (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z94/)

Which panel/test did you buy? I bought the Z93 panel two years ago but they did not test anything downstream of Y6. I guess they updated it. Maybe i will buy it again so that they test the downstream markers but will look for other cheaper alternatives.

Reza
05-21-2017, 08:34 PM
There was a recent update to the Z93 panel with many more downstream markers to L657 added.

I emailed Thomas and Astrid, and they kindly agreed to do a personal panel update for 20GBP given that they knew I was Y6+.

Worth it i think, if they're still able to offer a personalised option. I had similarly tested now 1.5 years ago.

homosapien
06-02-2017, 06:57 PM
So it transpires an error was made with my yseq R1a panel results from January which categorised me as Y40*.

I received notification a month ago that, according to Thomas, they had the wrong definition for the Y40 position (one base to the right) and I am now Y40 negative.

Subsequently, my results have come back as L657+ Y6+ (Y7- Y9-). No further downstream markers to Y6 have been checked.

I had a look at the yfull tree, appears to be a wide spread through the subcontinent in terms of distribution.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L657/

Any further information available on the different L657 subclades?

Nice update. What are you planning to do next?

After 2 tests I am kind of confused why was I doing the tests to begin with. I have not discovered any new information which can be helpful in some way.

Coldmountains
06-16-2017, 07:12 PM
I ended up testing further downstream markers through YSEQ.

Y6 > Y920* - which on yfull has GIH, BEB and STU samples .

Negative for Y928, Y906, YP95633.


Yfull tree (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z94/)
I got my first results. Negative for Y928 but positive for Y920

homosapien
06-21-2017, 05:44 PM
I got my first results. Negative for Y928 but positive for Y920

Thats amazing! So you two (you and Reza) happen to be my long lost cousins? :) Going by the age of Y920 it looks like really long lost cousins.

Reza
06-21-2017, 06:32 PM
How very interesting guys, sorry I missed this.

On these still relatively upstream markers, there really doesn't happen to be much geographic specification. A Bengali, Pashtun and South Indians on yfull. What is your ethnicity homosapiens?

How much granularity would be needed to tease out regional differences given the fact that all the various subclades downstream of L657 seem to be shared across the subcontinent?

And an amateur question, but what does it suggest of the spread of various L657 in the subcontinent after its entry into the NW?

parasar
06-21-2017, 07:03 PM
How very interesting guys, sorry I missed this.

On these still relatively upstream markers, there really doesn't happen to be much geographic specification. A Bengali, Pashtun and South Indians on yfull. What is your ethnicity homosapiens?

How much granularity would be needed to tease out regional differences given the fact that all the various subclades downstream of L657 seem to be shared across the subcontinent?

And an amateur question, but what does it suggest of the spread of various L657 in the subcontinent after its entry into the NW?

Not just L657 but also Z2124 and Y40. Essentially the whole group formed at the TMRCA of Z93 at 4700ybp. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z93/

There are %age differences but no clear pattern. It suggests to me either an origin of all three outside the subcontinent (but close) or presence in a limited area within the subcontinent prior to expansion.

homosapien
06-21-2017, 10:32 PM
Not just L657 but also Z2124 and Y40. Essentially the whole group formed at the TMRCA of Z93 at 4700ybp. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z93/

There are %age differences but no clear pattern. It suggests to me either an origin of all three outside the subcontinent (but close) or presence in a limited area within the subcontinent prior to expansion.

Yes, that 4700 ybp tag is a tough nut to crack, just as tough as why z93 has a clear distribution in Asia and Z283 in Europe.
Almost like they knew, ok these guys have to go here and the rest have to go there, with a roll call of the new mutations under Z93 and Z283 ready to take the marching orders.

Just being sarcastic, but that's the state of information we have atm.

homosapien
06-21-2017, 10:49 PM
How very interesting guys, sorry I missed this.

On these still relatively upstream markers, there really doesn't happen to be much geographic specification. A Bengali, Pashtun and South Indians on yfull. What is your ethnicity homosapiens?

How much granularity would be needed to tease out regional differences given the fact that all the various subclades downstream of L657 seem to be shared across the subcontinent?

And an amateur question, but what does it suggest of the spread of various L657 in the subcontinent after its entry into the NW?

I was born in Maharashtra, India. All my known relatives are in Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh and North Karnataka, excluding places of migrations in the last 2 generations.

From a culture/religion perspective I belong to Deshastha Brahmin family.

However seeing you and Coldmountains belonging to the same haplogroup, I guess our record keeping is not very extensive.

Coldmountains
06-22-2017, 09:00 AM
How very interesting guys, sorry I missed this.

On these still relatively upstream markers, there really doesn't happen to be much geographic specification. A Bengali, Pashtun and South Indians on yfull. What is your ethnicity homosapiens?

How much granularity would be needed to tease out regional differences given the fact that all the various subclades downstream of L657 seem to be shared across the subcontinent?

And an amateur question, but what does it suggest of the spread of various L657 in the subcontinent after its entry into the NW?

Indo-Iranians arrived quite late in South Asia (around 1900BC) so that we need downstream markers younger than 3000-3500 years to see any geographic specification. Also it seems that before Indo-Aryans expaned from the NW into the rest of India, they were a mix of different tribes and immigration waves so that they were already from the beggining a mix of various L657/Z2124/Y40 lineages. The caste system was also established much later after the main admixture event in South Asia. In my case it is very hard to say where my lineage is ultimately from. My paternal ancestors where Pashtuns from the Kabul area (Paghman district - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paghman_District). Maybe i got it from some dardic populations populating the area before Pashtuns but Kalash are Z2124 and somehow it seems L657 is higher in southern Afghanistan and Gedrosia. My lineage is very much a mystery and most Pashtuns are Z2124. It would be very interesting to know the R1a-Z93 subclades of Afghan Dardics like Pashai and Nuristani

parasar
06-22-2017, 06:19 PM
I was born in Maharashtra, India. All my known relatives are in Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh and North Karnataka, excluding places of migrations in the last 2 generations.

From a culture/religion perspective I belong to Deshastha Brahmin family.

However seeing you and Coldmountains belonging to the same haplogroup, I guess our record keeping is not very extensive.

It will be interesting to see if there is any differences among the different types of Brahmans in Maharashtras area ("three countries known by the name of Maharashtra" https://standardshots.wordpress.com/2016/11/24/aihole-stone-inscription-of-pulakesin-ii/ This by the way is an amazing inscription as it confirms both the Mahabharata time-frame/tradition, and the Shak era as the events are independently verified by Xuanzang's accounts. Plus it places the Gurjjar country as adjacent to Lat and Malwa. I'm quite convinced that my Gurjjar paternal ancestors moved from this region to eastern India via Kannauj. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1269-Somewhat-unusual-results-for-my-group/page14 ).

The Havik, Deshastha, Chitpavan, Gaur, Karhad, etc. all tell different tales but also all follow the same gotra system.

Another possible place of expansion for all these Brahman clans is from the Bihar/Bengal area during the Gupta period.
https://books.google.com/books?id=g2m7_R5P2oAC&pg=PA149

homosapien
06-23-2017, 01:48 AM
It will be interesting to see if there is any differences among the different types of Brahmans in Maharashtras area ("three countries known by the name of Maharashtra" https://standardshots.wordpress.com/2016/11/24/aihole-stone-inscription-of-pulakesin-ii/ This by the way is an amazing inscription as it confirms both the Mahabharata time-frame/tradition, and the Shak era as the events are independently verified by Xuanzang's accounts. Plus it places the Gurjjar country as adjacent to Lat and Malwa. I'm quite convinced that my Gurjjar paternal ancestors moved from this region to eastern India via Kannauj. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1269-Somewhat-unusual-results-for-my-group/page14 ).

The Havik, Deshastha, Chitpavan, Gaur, Karhad, etc. all tell different tales but also all follow the same gotra system.

Another possible place of expansion for all these Brahman clans is from the Bihar/Bengal area during the Gupta period.
https://books.google.com/books?id=g2m7_R5P2oAC&pg=PA149

That is fascinating indeed. And I always wonder why there are so many different kinds of brahmins.

My personal theory is either at the kings level to distinguish himself or at the brahmin level for one up manship,
they tried to distinguish themselves for social recogniton or to avail of opportunities.

For example in the beggining there must have been one ideal kingdom with ideal rules and ideal priest and with later population expansion led to more kingdoms who wanted to replicate the ideal state, but at the same time wanted to distinguish themselves.

Regarding Rigvedi Deshastha, do you have any more information as to what are the tales of their origins where did they come from etc? Because I have been unable to find anything more on their origins, except for the stated fact that they are original residents of the area.

Gupta period would be too late? I was thinking more on the lines of mature ISVC to end of ISVC period was the time of their radiation outwards from and around that area.

Coldmountains
07-07-2017, 08:47 PM
I ended up testing further downstream markers through YSEQ.

Y6 > Y920* - which on yfull has GIH, BEB and STU samples .

Negative for Y928, Y906, YP95633.


Yfull tree (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z94/)
I got the same final results. R1a-L657> Y6> Y11> Y920* (negative for Y928, Y906, YP5633). So you are for now one of my closest y-dna relatives. I guess i am one of the first afghan L657 males who tested for these downstream markers.

parasar
07-09-2017, 06:33 PM
I got the same final results. R1a-L657> Y6> Y11> Y920* (negative for Y928, Y906, YP5633). So you are for now one of my closest y-dna relatives. I guess i am one of the first afghan L657 males who tested for these downstream markers.

Mehrdad is on the parallel Y9+Y7+ line.
Not an Afghan though, but a Pakhtoon from the Pakistan side.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1507-Some-provisional-calculations-for-haplogroup-R1a-based-on-the-first-FGC-result&p=28528&viewfull=1#post28528

parasar
07-15-2017, 06:02 AM
That is fascinating indeed. And I always wonder why there are so many different kinds of brahmins.

My personal theory is either at the kings level to distinguish himself or at the brahmin level for one up manship,
they tried to distinguish themselves for social recogniton or to avail of opportunities.

For example in the beggining there must have been one ideal kingdom with ideal rules and ideal priest and with later population expansion led to more kingdoms who wanted to replicate the ideal state, but at the same time wanted to distinguish themselves.

Regarding Rigvedi Deshastha, do you have any more information as to what are the tales of their origins where did they come from etc? Because I have been unable to find anything more on their origins, except for the stated fact that they are original residents of the area.

Gupta period would be too late? I was thinking more on the lines of mature ISVC to end of ISVC period was the time of their radiation outwards from and around that area.

Maybe.
Timelines were not a forte of the Indians.

If we go by their calendars, we have - "While Satyasraya (another name of Pulakesin II) was ruling at Vatapi (v.32) in the year 3735 of the Bharata war (v.33) and in the year 556 of the Saka era (v.34) the temple of Jinendra was built by Ravikirti (v.35)."

Shak samvat we know for sure begins in 78AD (556+78=634AD matches when Xuanzang visited with Pulakesi Raja). With that established we know that the Bharat war (Maha was a later added embellishment) was in 3735-634=3101BC. These traditions were well established before the advent of the Greeks.

So in 3102-3101BC is when things really came apart in the subcontinent with many tribes leaving for central Asia - the most important being the Yadus of Vasudeva's tribe after the destruction of Dwarka. It boggles the mind that such an elaborate pauranik 'history' was formulated with no basis.

parasar
09-21-2017, 03:21 PM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lF4ryOfpB2bjTpYYvu0wN-D9xs923SapwYkt-nbaBLGK1Y0KHywzGV1MaAtJAL8khtpd0zqf=w1366-h638-rw
per Semargl

R-L657
.R-Y4
..R-Y6

.Y-9
..Y7
..Y2351
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L657/

wmehar
10-09-2017, 05:41 PM
Thinking of ordering Yfull for a second paternal cousin in Pakistan, or possibly uncle of same paternal line but distant in generations..

@Cold mountains, it may cost a pretty penny but might be worthwhile doing the same for one of your paternal uncles/grandfather or distant paternal cousins.

They would be able to triangulate SNP's and age of mutations far much better especially of one of patrilineal samples (I remember someone telling me).

I'm now R-L657> Y9 > Y7> Y31> R-FGC57573. formed 2900 ybp, TMRCA 1550ybp

Yf07657 is me!

parasar
10-09-2017, 05:59 PM
Thinking of ordering Yfull for a second paternal cousin in Pakistan, or possibly uncle of same paternal line but distant in generations..

I'm now R-L657> Y9 > Y7> Y31> R-FGC57573. formed 2900 ybp, TMRCA 1550ybp

Yf07657 is me!

The TMRCA is in the historical period.

So at least three Y31 lines:

R-Y31Y31 formed 3400 ybp, TMRCA 2900 ybpinfo

..R-Y31*
..id:HG03606 BEB
..id:NA20891 GIH

..R-FGC57573FGC57587 * FGC57581 * FGC57573+4 SNPs formed 2900 ybp, TMRCA 1550 ybpinfo
..id:YF09829
..id:YF07652 PAK [PK-PB]

R-Y2569Y2570 * S24826 * Y2569/Z34584
id:NA20850 GIH
id:HG02736 PJL

Coldmountains
08-31-2019, 12:26 PM
I ended up testing further downstream markers through YSEQ.

Y6 > Y920* - which on yfull has GIH, BEB and STU samples .

Negative for Y928, Y906, YP95633.


Yfull tree (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z94/)

There is a new Y920* sample now on Yfull and it is of Uyghur origin.

Coldmountains
05-26-2020, 01:16 PM
On Yfull there are now one Makrani and one Brahui sample from HGDP carrying Y928*, which are under Y6>Y920 too.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y928/

Coldmountains
06-13-2020, 10:46 PM
I checked the Pashtun HGDP00243 R1a-M780,L657 sample. He definetly falls under Y6+ and is derived for M699 and Y11. He seems to be negative for Y906, Y907, Y920 and Y928.

Actually i found him to be derived for M762 and M624 so he falls under https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M624/

Coldmountains
06-14-2020, 07:00 PM
I ended up testing further downstream markers through YSEQ.

Y6 > Y920* - which on yfull has GIH, BEB and STU samples .

Negative for Y928, Y906, YP95633.


Yfull tree (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z94/)

R1a-Y198829 which is under Y920 can now be tested on YSEQ. It is according to Yfull equal in terms of phylogeny to R1a-BY160158.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY160158/

I already bought the test and i recommend you also testing it. Poi is also positive for it.

Reza
06-14-2020, 09:36 PM
R1a-Y198829 which is under Y920 can now be tested on YSEQ. It is according to Yfull equal in terms of phylogeny to R1a-BY160158.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY160158/

I already bought the test and i recommend you also testing it. Poi is also positive for it.

Thanks for that update, I'll order the Y198829 SNP tonight.

A thought though, is R-Y888 also a new sub branch? Don't recall that being tested on our Y920 sub branches?

It's very tempting to go for the WGS.

Since the initial posts, I now have 23andme v5 ydna results for both my mum's father and also her maternal grandfather, both of whom are also R1a-Y6.

Coldmountains
06-14-2020, 10:25 PM
Thanks for that update, I'll order the Y198829 SNP tonight.

A thought though, is R-Y888 also a new sub branch? Don't recall that being tested on our Y920 sub branches?

It's very tempting to go for the WGS.

Since the initial posts, I now have 23andme v5 ydna results for both my mum's father and also her maternal grandfather, both of whom are also R1a-Y6.

I asked YSEQ also to test Y888 but they don't recommend this snp for phylogeny. But thanks to poi's yfull analyse it seems that Yfull found the snp Y198829, which is defining the same clade like BY160158 for now.




Y888 is 97.8% similar to chromosome X (92055447..92056442). Not recommended for phylogeny.

BY160158 is located in the centromeric GGAAT repeat region which is not recommended for phylogeny.


Very interesting news. My impression, which maybe will turn out wrong, is that Y6 is most frequent in the most western, southern and eastern regions of the Indian subcontinent. Not sure what this means in terms of historical migrations but maybe much of Y6 arrived with a slightly later wave than Y7.This would also explain why the Pashtun HGDP00243 falls under a rather young Y6 clade shared with modern day Tamils in India, Punjabi and people in Sri Lanka.

I am also thinking about buying a WGS test on black friday or when there is a good discount.

Coldmountains
06-15-2020, 05:04 PM
Thanks for that update, I'll order the Y198829 SNP tonight.

A thought though, is R-Y888 also a new sub branch? Don't recall that being tested on our Y920 sub branches?

It's very tempting to go for the WGS.

Since the initial posts, I now have 23andme v5 ydna results for both my mum's father and also her maternal grandfather, both of whom are also R1a-Y6.

I got my results. I am Y198829-.

Reza
06-15-2020, 08:31 PM
I got my results. I am Y198829-.

Mine should be two weeks they've said.

Regarding your theory re Y6 vs Y7, I get the impression it's Y6 > Y7 certainly in Bengal, is that definitely the case in the South too?

As per your suggestion that if Y6 is more peripheral, with the core heartlands Y7 > Y6, could it not also suggest that Y6 entered earlier and spread more peripherally from the central areas before being replaced by Y7?

Well aware that such a simple model wouldn't account for all complexities and we don't really know the distribution across the subcontinent well.

I suppose founding effects may account for the prevalence in some regions like Bengal, would be good to get greater definition of downstream markers and see if all great grandparents belonged to the same lineage, even if on paper, their lineage is allegedly more diverse.

Coldmountains
06-15-2020, 09:46 PM
Mine should be two weeks they've said.

Regarding your theory re Y6 vs Y7, I get the impression it's Y6 > Y7 certainly in Bengal, is that definitely the case in the South too?

As per your suggestion that if Y6 is more peripheral, with the core heartlands Y7 > Y6, could it not also suggest that Y6 entered earlier and spread more peripherally from the central areas before being replaced by Y7?

Well aware that such a simple model wouldn't account for all complexities and we don't really know the distribution across the subcontinent well.

I suppose founding effects may account for the prevalence in some regions like Bengal, would be good to get greater definition of downstream markers and see if all great grandparents belonged to the same lineage, even if on paper, their lineage is allegedly more diverse.

Of course this also possible and i could be very wrong here. I assumed this, because my idea was that a later wave would move in more peripheral regions and prefer regions without a formed and strict social structure. My impression is that eastern and southern India was populated by a later wave of Post-Kuru tribes like Sakya, who were seen as "unorthodox" Indo-Aryans.

But this is probably a too simplistic theory. We definetly have a weaker division of R1a-L657 clades between ethnic, tribal and geographic lines compared to other steppe lineages of similar age including many R1a-Z2124 clades but there are probably several reasons for that.

There was a lot of internal migration in the Indian subcontinent and later (re-)migration of Indo-Aryans into urban civilizations near India (Bactria, Tarim basin,..). Also the migration of L657 into the India subcontinent happened rather late compared to other regions in Europe or Central Asia. So we see mostly young clades under L657 and to a lesser extent Z2124 in South Asia. Many of this clades formed around 4000 years according to Yfull but i feel Yfull is underestimating their ages in most cases, so they were already born either in Central Asia or East Europe, what means that Indo-Aryan arriving in South Asia had already several rather young clades in the same clans/tribes, what makes it hard to associate the currently studied L657 clades with specific regions, tribes or ethnic groups.

It seems certain for now that Baluchs and Brahui are dominated by Y6 and maybe also the L657 Pashtuns (most L657 Pashtuns seem to be Y6+ but there is also Y7+ among them). But this region had a lot of bottle necks and founder effects so the modern distribution is maybe misleading.

Coldmountains
06-17-2020, 10:58 PM
I think now, that my Y6+ lineage orginates from Iron Age/Historical Period Arachosia. An origin from local Dardics seems to be for me unlikely now based on the low frequency of R1a-L657 among Gandhara_IA, Kalash and northern Pashtuns from former Gandhara with a significant Gandhara_IA substrate. On the otherside Baluchs and Brahui tend to be Y6+ and seem to have even more L657 than Z2124. Also my paternal lineage is of Pashtun origin and many Pashtun specific clades can be traced back to Arachosia and have stil basal clades in the region and nearby (Gulf states, Balochistan,Gujarat, Indus region...). The Pashtun homeland is generally assumed to be in North Baluchistan and Pegasus mentioned that Pashtuns of this region were found to be rich in L657+. So i assume early Pashtun pastoralists would carry Y6+ and spread it northwards but Y6+ was overshadowed by Pashtun R1a-YP413 , which thanks to a founder effect, became very frequent and very dominant among modern day Pashtuns.

How Y6>Y920+ arroved in Arachosia can not exactly be said, but the most logical explanation for me is that it was brought by early Indo-Aryans from BMAC/Central Asia and later assimilated by a later wave of East Iranics during the Iron Age. But it is also possible that my clade arrived from a later remigration of pastoralist Indo-Aryan/Indic groups to Arachosia/Gedrosia.

A big mystery for me are the L657 clades of Tajiks, Uzbeks and Pamiri. At least Afghan Tajiks and Uzbeks seem to be rich in L657 and have around 10% of it, what is similar to the frequency of L657 among Pashtuns. The Y920* among Uyghurs points to an existence of this clade among Pamiri too. But except of this we don't really now much about the L657 in these populations.

parasar
06-17-2020, 11:23 PM
Mine should be two weeks they've said.

Regarding your theory re Y6 vs Y7, I get the impression it's Y6 > Y7 certainly in Bengal, is that definitely the case in the South too?
...

My guess is the southern Indian L657 is high in Y6 - perhaps as much as 90% - based on the Chaubey data.
In fact M780xM634 looks higher than Y7.

Reza
07-10-2020, 08:17 PM
I got my results. I am Y198829-.

My results came through just now. On my paternal side - I am Y198829 T+!

Thanks for the recommendation.

So I guess I sit on the same subclade as poi for now.

tipirneni
07-10-2020, 08:27 PM
My guess is the southern Indian L657 is high in Y6 - perhaps as much as 90% - based on the Chaubey data.
In fact M780xM634 looks higher than Y7.

So far South Indian Kamma, all are L657 are Y6 only. Others are all R1a*.

Coldmountains
07-12-2020, 08:49 PM
My results came through just now. On my paternal side - I am Y198829 T+!

Thanks for the recommendation.

So I guess I sit on the same subclade as poi for now.




They increased the TMRCA date to 2900 ybp what would more or less fall into the period of Late Vedic Indo-Aryan expansion eastwards. But it is possible that they are still underestimasting and the clade itself formed around 4000 ybp what basically would mean it formed in Andronovo or even an earlier culture. So it will be very interesting to see which clades under R1a-BY160158 will be found in the future.

My basal Y920* clade on the otherside is for now closest to Gujarati, Bengali and Uyghurs but with a TMRCA of 4000 ybp so not really helpful in determining deeper connections :(

parasar
07-18-2020, 10:21 PM
Y6 vs Y7 samples in the Hallast et al. paper. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-020-02204-9

Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Mala India R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Makrani Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Makrani Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Kurmi India R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Balochi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Balochi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Balochi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Pathan Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Odisha India R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6


Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7
Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7
Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7
Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7
Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Kazakhs Kazakhstan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Gupta India R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

West-Bengali India R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Iraqi-Jews Iraq R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Pathan Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Uygur China R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Relli India R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Coldmountains
07-19-2020, 06:40 PM
Y6 vs Y7 samples in the Hallast et al. paper. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-020-02204-9

Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Brahui Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Mala India R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Makrani Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Makrani Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Kurmi India R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Balochi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Balochi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6
Balochi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Pathan Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6

Odisha India R1a1a1b2a1a1a Y6


Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7
Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7
Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7
Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7
Sindhi Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Kazakhs Kazakhstan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Gupta India R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

West-Bengali India R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Iraqi-Jews Iraq R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Pathan Pakistan R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Uygur China R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Relli India R1a1a1b2a1a2c Y7

Thanks for sharing actually all of Brahui R1a is Y6+ what is quitr interesting. So they are around 25% Y6 what is kind a lot. If i am not wrong Brahui are centered around Kalat so not far away from where Proto-Pashtuns would form (North Baluchistan/Arachosia). Would be interesting to see if my Pashtun R1a-Y6 is closer to them or to Y6 further north (my Y6>Y920* was found among Uyghurs) or further east in South Asia.

30-40% of Balochi and Makrani R1a is Y6+ so probably still the biggest R1a clade and the rest is probably YP413 and some Z2123 (they not looked deeper at other Z93 clades it seems)

parasar
07-20-2020, 11:26 PM
Thanks for sharing actually all of Brahui R1a is Y6+ what is quitr interesting. So they are around 25% Y6 what is kind a lot. If i am not wrong Brahui are centered around Kalat so not far away from where Proto-Pashtuns would form (North Baluchistan/Arachosia). Would be interesting to see if my Pashtun R1a-Y6 is closer to them or to Y6 further north (my Y6>Y920* was found among Uyghurs) or further east in South Asia.

30-40% of Balochi and Makrani R1a is Y6+ so probably still the biggest R1a clade and the rest is probably YP413 and some Z2123 (they not looked deeper at other Z93 clades it seems)

And among the Sindhi, and I suspect the same for Punjabis, Y7 dominates.

From what I undestand the Brahui were much more widespread at one time in Baluchistan - but over the past hundred plus years the Brahui shrunk and Baloch gained currency.
https://ia801606.us.archive.org/23/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.232478/2015.232478.The-Brahui.pdf
Ref: "Baluchistan Census Report of 1901."
"Numerically they are the strongest tribe in Baluchistan, numbering roughly 300,000 souls, or more than thrice the strength of the Baluch actually resident in the country to which he has given his name ...

the true Brahuis who came from Aleppo are only represented by the Ahmadzai (the ruling family of Kalat), the Iltazai, Mirwari, Gm’gnari, Sumalari and Kalandrari...

He has little of the Pathan’s pride of race and language. On the contrary, though he may naturally be chary of putting the admission into words, he usually accepts as a matter of course the claims of both Pathan and Baluch to be his superior in race, and certainly displays a distinct alacrity to trace a non-Brahui descent whenever he can do so with decency ...

This lack of proper racial pride is probably intimately related to the diffidence of the Brahui as to his language. There is a very general feeling among his neighbours that Brahui is a strange language, a jargon too uncouth for gentility and the feeling is shared in some measure by the Brahuis themselves, who do not hesitate to employ Baluchi or Pashtu on the slightest excuse."


"There are also numbers of partly settled Brahuis living along the Helmand river in Afghanistan, from Čahār Borjak eastward through Šōrāwak to Nushki, as well as seminomadic Brahuis in Persia, now almost entirely in Sīstān but with a few settled farther south near Ḵāš. G. P. Tate mentions the presence there of about 2,000 Brahuis, but their number has now much diminished, principally through assimilation with neighboring Baluch."

"Ethnically the Brahuis have tended to become even more closely identified with the Baluch, a process that has been continuing since at least the 16th century and probably for much longer (see below)."

All census returns since 1911 (analyzed by Sir Denys Bray in 1914; the 1931 returns were also discussed by him; see below) have been characterized by confusion between those designated Brahui tribesmen and those claiming Brahui as their mother tongue, which has led to constant overestimates of the latter and underestimates of the former in later Pakistani census returns (up to 1961, the last year in which census data on mother tongue were provided; see Emeneau, 1962). It has been customary among Brahuis for many centuries to describe themselves as Baluch, especially to out*siders, regardless of the language they habitually use.

The first certain appearance of the Brahuis in history is in 17th-century Mughal notices on the Khanate of Kalat. Their previous history is still entirely a matter of speculation, in the absence of even a trace of genuine Brahui traditions. The few early Brahui traditions known are merely echoes of Baluch traditional history, and none is preserved in the Brahui language in the form of ballads or anything else. There is no evidence for any early association of the Brahuis and the Baluch before their encounter in the highlands of Kalat in the 13th century or perhaps a bit earlier (but see below). Brahui traditions said to be preserved in Baluch historical ballads earlier than the 19th century nowhere mention the name Brahui or that of any known Brahui tribe. Speculation about Brahui history must therefore be based on linguistic evidence alone, namely the fact that Brahui is a Dravidian language.

The most common theory is that the Brahuis took part in the original Dravidian invasions of India from the northwest in the 3rd millennium b.c. but split off from the main body and remained in Sarawan and Jahlawan, where they have lived since before 2000 b.c. without contact with their Dravidian relations; yet the notion that they preserved their identity for millennia only to be suddenly overwhelmed by the Baluch invaders less than 800 years ago suffers from a certain intrinsic incredibility and calls for reexamination. Physically the Brahuis are quite indistinguishable from their Jaṭ and Baluch neighbors; they present the same varieties of types.

In the light of more recent evidence a hypothesis first suggested by Jules Bloch in 1924 seems more acceptable: The Brahuis are more likely to be relatively recent immigrants to their present homeland in Pakistan from the western Deccan.

After further migration northwestward, the Brahuis perforce came into contact with Jaṭs, who had been present in Sind since the 5th century; from the Jaṭs they would have taken their present name Brāhūī/Brāhōī."

Its most likely etymology is from Brāhō, a Siraiki (Jaṭki) form of Ebrāhīm, which underscores the Muslim character of the Brahuis vis-ā-vis their Hindu Jaṭ neighbors. Brāhōī is simply an adjective formed from Brāhō (probably by the Baluch), “the Brāhō people,” a political name for a loose collection of tribally organized Muslim nomads with no center living among the Jaṭs in west central Sind and speaking mainly a form of northwest Dravidian (see further below)."

"Probably the Brahuis had reached the highlands of Kalat by the 6th/12th century or a bit earlier, spreading north and south from there (and much later into Afghanistan and Persia), having assimilated many other nomadic tribal groups on their way and having shed others."

"Brahui has been profoundly influenced by the languages of the neighbors among whom the tribesmen have been living, at the oldest level by Indo-Aryan (Sindhi-Siraiki “Jaṭki”)."
https://iranicaonline.org/articles/brahui

tipirneni
07-21-2020, 01:06 AM
And among the Sindhi, and I suspect the same for Punjabis, Y7 dominates.

From what I undestand the Brahui were much more widespread at one time in Baluchistan - but over the past hundred plus years the Brahui shrunk and Baloch gained currency.


In the light of more recent evidence a hypothesis first suggested by Jules Bloch in 1924 seems more acceptable: The Brahuis are more likely to be relatively recent immigrants to their present homeland in Pakistan from the western Deccan.

If you look at Y-dna distribution difference between Baluchi & Brahui is that Balouch has E1b not in brahui whereas Brahui has more J2a, J1 & G1, C5 not in balochi. Thats probably a lot of difference in the Y heritage.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3799995/bin/pone.0076748.s007.xlsx

Coldmountains
08-28-2020, 09:47 AM
Thanks to aaronbee2010 we have now several new deeper Y6+ results, which hopefully will be soon all on Yfull.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21472-South-Asian-HGDP-Haplogroups

HGDP Sample Ethnicity mtDna Haplogroup Yfull

HGDP00076 Balochi J2a2 R1a-Y6 > Y920* https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y920/
HGDP00096 Balochi M3a2 R1a-Y6 > Y920* https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y920/
HGDP00092 Balochi M3a2 R1a-Y6 > Y920>Y928>Y1>Z29137> Y924* https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y924/

HGDP00033 Brahui H4 R1a-Y6 > Y920>Y928>FT201009 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT201009/
HGDP00001 Brahui M3c2 R1a-Y6 > Y920>Y928>FT201009 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT201009/
HGDP00011 Brahui M5a2a4 R1a-Y6 > Y920>Y928>FT201009 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT201009/
HGDP00031 Brahui T1a1m1 R1a-Y6 > Y920>Y928>FT201009https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT201009/
HGDP00035 Brahui U7a2 R1a-Y6 > Y920>Y928>FT201009 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT201009/
HGDP00027 Brahui H1ca R1a-Y6 > Y920>Y928>Y1>Z29137> Y924> Y34260 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y34260/


HGDP00135 Makrani M5a2a4 R1a-Y6 > Y920>Y928>FT201009 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT201009/
HGDP00150 Makrani HV5b R1a-Y6 > Y920* https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y920/

HGDP00243 Pathan W3a1 R1a-Y6 > M624* https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M624/

HGDP00199 Sindhi K2a5b R1a-Y6 > Y920* https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y920/

Coldmountains
03-11-2021, 11:25 PM
Yfull added a Sarikoli (WGC059852D) sample under Y28* and a Kashmiri (SAMC013032) sample under Y4* (both a bit upstream of Y6)
https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/R-Y28/