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Mike_G
11-12-2016, 04:02 PM
In the Family Finder section...is this new or have I just not noticed this since getting my results in August?

Afshar
11-12-2016, 04:07 PM
This is New. Seems interesting but I preferred they updated the myorigins first

Tįltos
11-12-2016, 04:13 PM
I can see my brother is:
Hunter-Gather-43%
Farmer-43%
Metal Age Invader-14%
non-European-0%

Now to go check out my other accounts. :)

EDIT-
Me:
Farmer-44%
Hunter-Gatherer-41%
Metal Age Invader-15%
non-European-0%

My Mom:
Farmer-53%
Hunter-Gatherer-30%
Metal Age Invader-17%
non-European-0%

MfA
11-12-2016, 04:17 PM
Interesting stuff

Here's mine
FARMER 58%
METAL AGE INVADER 42%

Ezidi Kurd
FARMER 55%
METAL AGE INVADER 45%

rest is 0

Afshar
11-12-2016, 04:24 PM
MAI 35
HG 5
F 6
Non Ie 8

Hanna
11-12-2016, 04:26 PM
Me

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15000733_733382863504055_3159250113380854683_o.jpg ?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

Grandfather

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15039550_733382820170726_6196216236435551690_o.jpg ?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

Grandmother

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14991061_733382783504063_7894876459078184149_o.jpg ?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

Mike_G
11-12-2016, 04:35 PM
51% Hunter Gatherer
36% Farmer
13% Metal Age Invader

Stellaritic
11-12-2016, 04:41 PM
65% Farmer
21% Non-European
10% Metal Age Invader
5% Hunter-Gatherer

Afshar
11-12-2016, 04:46 PM
Wonder which sources the non Ie component covers

Shuffle
11-12-2016, 04:47 PM
13 % Metal-Age
46 % Farmer
41 % Hunter-Gatherer
0% Non-Euro

Stellaritic
11-12-2016, 04:56 PM
Wonder which sources the non Ie component covers

Here is what they say about it:
Most of the world is not of European descent and alternatively, have genetic contributions from influential and significant populations for which we currently do not have enough scientific data. For this reason, those whose ancestral makeup is of non-European descent cannot be grouped into these three particular ancient European categories. As more significant DNA evidence is found in other regions of the world, we will work to continue to connect the ancient with the present in our effort to further our understanding of the interconnectedness between us all

Basically, any human population that isn't WHG, Yamnaya and EEF.

Afshar
11-12-2016, 04:59 PM
Here is what they say about it:

Basically, any human population that isn't WHG, Yamnaya and EEF.

Its always nice when there is a "dump" component. They could have done better. From what I see mine and relatives eems East eurasian

vettor
11-12-2016, 05:00 PM
mine below

Hunter-Gather-30%
Farmer-54%
Metal Age Invader-16%
non-European-0%


I have 0% non-european.........but when you click non-european, the info says basically I come from nowhere else except Europe, yet myOrigins shows me 22% Anatolian.
Anatolian in the older ftdna PF split was "european"


my wife below
Hunter-Gather-35%
Farmer-55%
Metal Age Invader-10%
non-European-0%

Sorgun
11-12-2016, 05:25 PM
Metal Age Invader 37%
Farmer 55%
Hunter-Gatherer 3%
Non-European 5%

Shaikorth
11-12-2016, 05:42 PM
If Europeans are getting <20% "Metal Age" and Kurds over 40% it could be something other than Yamnaya. Would be interesting to see a Georgian result.

Sangarius
11-12-2016, 05:50 PM
Based on the results, it doesn't seem like that the iron age invader component correctly reflects Indo-European ancestry proportions. West Asians score more than triple the amount that Europeans score. Seems more like CHG-like ancestry.

icebreaker
11-12-2016, 05:50 PM
Farmer-54%
Metal Age Invader-38%
non-European-8%

Amerijoe
11-12-2016, 06:18 PM
12549

Oleg (Rus)
11-12-2016, 06:45 PM
My ancientOrigins (Russian): 16% Metal Age Invader, 31% Farmer, 46% Hunter-Gatherer, 7% Non-European.

ba97200
11-12-2016, 06:52 PM
Ancient origins:

Dad (Thasos island, Greece): Farmer 59%, Hunter-Gatherer 23%, Metal Age Invader 18%, Non-European 0%
Mom (Cappadokian Greek): Farmer 64%, Hunter-Gatherer 7%, Metal Age Invader 29%, Non-European 0%
Uncle (Cappadokian Greek): Farmer 65%, Hunter-Gatherer 4%, Metal Age Invader 31%, Non-European 0%

Heber
11-12-2016, 07:05 PM
Metal Age Invader Map appears to originate in South Caucasus as per Jones et al paper.
http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms9912

http://pin.it/fJH0wIH

I am having problems posting pics to Anthrogenica so I posted them to Pinterest.

Asimakidis
11-12-2016, 07:21 PM
Me:
Metal age invader: 31
Farmer: 64
Hunter gatherer: 5
Non European: 0

Dad:
Metal age invader: 26
Farmer: 60
Hunter gatherer: 13
Non European: 0

Mother's brother:
Metal age invader: 34
Farmer: 66
Hunter gatherer: 0
Non European: 0

Maternal grandmother (same results for her brother)
Metal age invader: 35
Farmer: 65
Hunter gatherer: 0
Non European: 0

Paternal grandmother's sister:
Metal age invader: 35
Farmer: 65
Hunter gatherer: 0
Non European: 0

Paternal gm's niece (father's 1st cousin)
Metal age invader: 23
Farmer: 61
Hunter gatherer: 16
Non European: 0

Paternal 2nd cousin (through paternal gr.grandfather's line):
Metal age invader: 21
Farmer: 56
Hunter gatherer: 23
Non European: 0

Non-related (Swede/Greek):
Metal age invader: 20
Farmer: 50
Hunter gatherer: 30
Non European: 0

Non-related (Swede/Greek):
Metal age invader: 17
Farmer: 50
Hunter gatherer: 33
Non European: 0

kikkk
11-12-2016, 07:28 PM
Metal age invader: 13
Farmer: 53
Hunter gatherer: 27
Non European: 7

kingjohn
11-12-2016, 07:29 PM
my results :
12550
regards
adam

rms2
11-12-2016, 07:36 PM
Is FTDNA using CHG for "Metal Age Invader"? Seems like some strange results.

kikkk
11-12-2016, 07:39 PM
If I correctly understood, metal age invaders are originally from Georgia and correspond to Yamnayans which are also called indo-europeans, farmers are from Syria and hunters gatherers from Egypt?

Heber
11-12-2016, 07:48 PM
Here are the relevant extracts from Jones et al re CHG.

Upper Palaeolithic genomes reveal deep roots of modern Eurasians

CHG genomes significantly contributed to the Yamnaya steppe herders who migrated into Europe ∼3,000 BC, supporting a formative Caucasus influence on this important Early Bronze age culture. CHG left their imprint on modern populations from the Caucasus and also central and south Asia possibly marking the arrival of Indo-Aryan languages…

We show that CHG belong to a new, distinct ancient clade that split from WHG ∼45 kya and from Neolithic farmer ancestors ∼25 kya. This clade represents the previously undetermined source of ancestry to the Yamnaya, and contributed directly to modern populations from the Caucasus all the way to Central Asia…

The two Caucasus hunter-gatherers occupy a distinct region of the plot suggesting a Eurasian lineage distinct from previously described ancestral components. The Yamnaya are located in an intermediate position between CHG and EHG. (b). ADMIXTURE ancestry components12 for ancient genomes (K=17) showing a CHG component (Kotias, Satsurblia) which also segregates in in the Yamnaya and later European populations...

CHG origins of migrating Early Bronze Age herders
CHG ancestry in these groups is supported by ADMIXTURE analysis (Fig. 1b) and admixture f3-statistics14,25 (Fig. 5), which best describe the Yamnaya as a mix of CHG and Eastern European hunter-gatherers...

During the Early Bronze Age, the Caucasus was in communication with the steppe, particularly via the Maikop culture27, which emerged in the first-half of the fourth millennium BC. The Maikop culture predated and, possibly with earlier southern influences, contributed to the formation of the adjacent Yamnaya culture that emerged further to the north and may be a candidate for the transmission of CHG ancestry...

In the ADMIXTURE analysis of later ancient genomes (Fig. 1b) the Caucasus component gives a marker for the extension of Yamnaya admixture, with substantial contribution to both western and eastern Bronze Age samples...

Greatest support is found for Yamnaya being a mix of Caucasus hunter-gatherers (CHG) and Russian hunter-gatherers who belong to an eastern extension of the WHG clade (EHG)...

The separation between CHG and both EF and WHG ended during the Early Bronze Age when a major ancestral component linked to CHG was carried west by migrating herders from the Eurasian Steppe. The foundation group for this seismic change was the Yamnaya, who we estimate to owe half of their ancestry to CHG-linked sources. These sources may be linked to the Maikop culture, which predated the Yamnaya and was located further south, closer to the Southern Caucasus. Through the Yamanya, the CHG ancestral strand contributed to most modern European populations, especially in the northern part of the continent.

The referenced charts are here:

http://pin.it/YW9c9NT

http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms9912

Kaido
11-12-2016, 07:51 PM
https://i.gyazo.com/36e2803cd801cd3c869076e37e03ceef.png

rms2
11-12-2016, 08:07 PM
Hmmm . . .

Hasn't David said repeatedly that CHG in Yamnaya was transmitted via females?

That makes sense to me given what we know of Yamnaya. It's not a culture that originated in the Caucasus, nor does it seem likely that R1b-L23 originated there.

Using CHG itself as a stand-in for Yamnaya strikes me as a major goof-up, but it does explain the difference in Family Finder's ancientOrigins results and the results one gets from Eurogenes on Gedmatch.

kingjohn
11-12-2016, 08:11 PM
the metal age is probably chg :)
have to agree with people here
regards
Adam

Stephen1986
11-12-2016, 08:14 PM
I have 49% HG, 40% Farmer and 11% MAI. My brother has 45% HG, 42% Farmer and 13% MAI.

rms2
11-12-2016, 08:14 PM
the metal age is probably chg :)
have to agree with people here
regards
Adam

Which means FTDNA has goofed up and omitted the EHG component that should be represented in "Metal Age Invaders". Probably they are conflating EHG with the Hunter-Gatherer total and mixing EHG and WHG.

rms2
11-12-2016, 08:18 PM
I have 49% HG, 40% Farmer and 11% MAI. My brother has 45% HG, 42% Farmer and 13% MAI.

My score is similar: 48% HG, 41% Sod Buster, and 11% MAI.

On Eurogenes I had 16.39% ANE and far far lower EEF than 41%, which makes me think FTDNA is using CHG as a stand-in for MAI.

jesus
11-12-2016, 08:20 PM
https://i.imgur.com/uASNtzj.png

kingjohn
11-12-2016, 08:25 PM
i wonder how many snp they use ?
to reach those conclusion
rms2 you probably right because if i add the whg +ehg =11%
in my kurd calculator it is 11% like 12% hunter this test gave me
regards
Adam

jesus
11-12-2016, 08:26 PM
If Europeans are getting <20% "Metal Age" and Kurds over 40% it could be something other than Yamnaya. Would be interesting to see a Georgian result.

According to their page, they based it on Yamnaya and Corded Ware. Not sure how accurate is this tool though.

BalkanKiwi
11-12-2016, 08:26 PM
http://i.imgur.com/azxRiYW.png

Darko
11-12-2016, 08:36 PM
MINE:

Farmer: 34%
Metal age invader: 8%
Hunther- Gatherer: 0%
Non-European: 57%

rms2
11-12-2016, 08:38 PM
According to their page, they based it on Yamnaya and Corded Ware. Not sure how accurate is this tool though.

I could be wrong, but I think they're just using CHG and omitting the EHG component. Don't know why though.

Abd.H
11-12-2016, 08:44 PM
My results :
Farmer: 65%
Metal age invader: 32%
Hunther- Gatherer: 0%
Non-European: 3%

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12552stc=1



12552

MfA
11-12-2016, 08:46 PM
My results :
Farmer: 65%
Metal age invader: 32%
Hunther- Gatherer: 0%
Non-European: 3%

Very similar to the Cappadocian Greek as expected.

A Norfolk L-M20
11-12-2016, 08:51 PM
44% hunter gatherer
47% Farmer
9% Metal Age.

Why would my Yamnaya be so so low? My ANE usually calculates to around 21% and 18% for my mother. Western hunter gatherer usually calculates to around 40%.

leonardo
11-12-2016, 09:02 PM
Me:
Metal Age Invader-14%
Farmer-45%
Hunter-Gatherer-42%
non-European-0%

My Mom:
Metal Age Invader-13%
Farmer-44%
Hunter-Gatherer-43%
non-European-0%

AnnieD
11-12-2016, 09:09 PM
How did FTDNA sneak this new tool into our results? :D

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12553&stc=1

Heber
11-12-2016, 09:11 PM
Me:
Metal Age Invader-12%
Farmer-40%
Hunter-Gatherer-47%
non-European-0%
Typical Irish Result

http://pin.it/NFjXeNg

This is consistent with Jones, Cassidy and recent presentations from Bradley, Krause, Hammer etc.

VelvetNono
11-12-2016, 09:12 PM
Here are my results:
3/4 Afghan Pashtun and 1/4 Afghan Tajik. (With some Dardic (Pashai) admixture as well).

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15000598_1480350358659981_4617286837696813731_o.jp g

Strangely enough, the components' percentages produced an error since they do not add up to 100% (99% actually, since 59% + 24% + 3%+ 13% = 99%). I don't know where that other 1% represents.

My component, Metal Age Invader, seems to be the highest out of the users here and what I have seen so far. Based on the descriptions on the FTDNA website, it seems to have stemmed from Yamnaya and Corded Ware culture.

Could it also represent CHG and/or EHG as well?

AnnieD
11-12-2016, 09:40 PM
My score is similar: 48% HG, 41% Sod Buster, and 11% MAI.

On Eurogenes I had 16.39% ANE and far far lower EEF than 41%, which makes me think FTDNA is using CHG as a stand-in for MAI.

Would any of these Eurogenes calculators be comparable to new FTDNA "Ancient Origins" results, e.g. time range per map descriptors encompasses LBK (8k), Motola (8k), La Brana (7k) Stuttgart (5k), Corded Ware (4k), etc., years back.

- ANE K7(182302 SNPs)
- Hunter_Gatherer vs. Farmer (172189 SNPs)
- West Eurasia K8 (Not on Gedmatch. Per Eurogenes blog: "This one gives more accurate estimates of Western European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG) and Near Eastern admixture proportions, thanks to the use of new ancient samples.")

AnnieD
11-12-2016, 09:52 PM
Strangely enough, the components' percentages produced an error since they do not add up to 100% (99% actually, since 59% + 24% + 3%+ 13% = 99%). I don't know where that other 1% represents.

My results at FTDNA "My Origins" add up to 101%, apparently due to statistical analysis used in algorithm.

kingjohn
11-12-2016, 10:05 PM
i dont know why i score 0% non european
when in ftdna my origins i have {18% antolia} and {6% central asia afghanistan }
maybe those allells go to the metal age invader....:\
anyway it is indid nice surprise from them
but i still waiting for the clusters update.....:\
regards
adam

razyn
11-12-2016, 10:09 PM
Marilyn Souders tweeted a good many slides from the FTDNA Administrators' Conference today. Several are from Michael Hammer, and pertain to these Ancient Origins issues. In case y'all want to study the pictures and argue about them, instead of your own results: https://twitter.com/hashtag/FTDNA2016?src=hash

Additional information has become available via Jennifer Zinck's blog from the same conference. She takes very detailed notes, and has some clear slides. The information from Michael Hammer's presentation about Ancient Origins is first, on this page. (There is a lot of material from other presentations and discussion that may also be of interest, but please don't use that as an excuse to talk about the stuff that isn't the subect of this thread.) http://www.ancestorcentral.com/12th-international-conference-on-genetic-genealogy-saturday/

Tz85
11-12-2016, 10:11 PM
Here's mine then my moms. I'm not sure how these are even accurate at all, my mom's 30% middle eastern.

Silesian
11-12-2016, 10:14 PM
Directly related to Yamnaya R1b-Z2103 by way of branch R1b-7822>9219. I only get 15% metal invader.
Better to stick with Anthrogenica expert in house tools by, Eurogenes, MLDP,Kurd, Tolan, etc..

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-12-2016, 10:24 PM
I'm 45% hunter gatherer, 41% Farmer, 14% Metal age invader. All recent ancestry in the UK. John

Tz85
11-12-2016, 10:29 PM
Me: 16% Metal Age Invader, 45% Farmer, 39% Hunter-Gatherer

Mom: 16% Metal Age Invader, 52% Farmer, 32% Hunter-Gatherer

Tomris
11-12-2016, 10:38 PM
My results
Farmer 48%
Hunter-Gatherer 26%
Metal Age Invader 21%
Non-European 5%

MyOrigins results 29% Eastern Europe,20% Western and Central Europe,%9 Ashkenazi,8% Southern Europe,29% Asia Minor,1% North Africa,4% Northeast Asia

A Norfolk L-M20
11-12-2016, 10:41 PM
Am I the NW European with the lowest Metal Age Yamnaya percentage of 9%?

sktibo
11-12-2016, 10:48 PM
46 farmer, 43 HG, 11 metal age. Expected HG to be my highest component as it is on all my gedmatch runs that look at this sort of thing. Interesting.
For reference I'm 51% west central Europe, 36% British isles, 11% Scandinavia, 1% native American

AJL
11-12-2016, 11:13 PM
17% Metal Age Invader
55% Farmer
28% Hunter-Gatherer

estevard
11-12-2016, 11:14 PM
Recent ancestry: 75% British Isles 25% Baltic

MAI 11
Farmer 38
Hunter gatherer 51

Comparison with MDLP K13 and Punt DNAL K10 below

12557

razyn
11-12-2016, 11:40 PM
Am I the NW European with the lowest Metal Age Yamnaya percentage of 9%?

Nope. I get 47% HG, 45% Farmer, 8% MAI and 0% non-European.

Principe
11-12-2016, 11:44 PM
I don't think the Ancient Myorigins is very accurate, it goes against all the other tools on Gedmatch and is different from MyOrigins, you can't go from 38% Middle Eastern to 2%, additionally I have confirmed distant Jewish Ancestry on my father's side and my 4% North African goes against the 2% that the Ancient Myorigins gives. Possibly it changes? I can see that Asia Minor and Farmer get mixed up or similar in this sense.

A Norfolk L-M20
11-12-2016, 11:53 PM
Nope. I get 47% HG, 45% Farmer, 8% MAI and 0% non-European.

And your known ancestry Brother survivor of the metal age invasion?

Mike_G
11-13-2016, 12:05 AM
46 farmer, 43 HG, 11 metal age. Expected HG to be my highest component as it is on all my gedmatch runs that look at this sort of thing. Interesting.
For reference I'm 51% west central Europe, 36% British isles, 11% Scandinavia, 1% native American

My HG is significantly higher on the Gedmatch calcs. It's the highest on this one as well, but just not as high. If I add the MAI to the HG, then it's about right with the other calculators.

Tz85
11-13-2016, 12:06 AM
My Spanish wife scores 26% non European, and she's around 30% middle eastern/north african. My mom is 30% middle eastern and scores ZERO non European. We can all agree that this yet again is another FTDNA failure.

Count
11-13-2016, 12:16 AM
I seem to be quite low on Metal Age Invader at just 10%. I have 48% farmer and 43% hunter gatherer.

Tomenable
11-13-2016, 12:22 AM
Here are my results in Ancient European Origins:

48% Hunter-Gatherer
36% Farmer
17% Metal Age Invader
0% Non-European

While according to Eurogenes Steppe K10, I am:

37% Western Hunter-Gatherer
29% Near Eastern Farmer
30% Steppe Invader
4% all other admixtures

===============

I think that Ancient European Origins counts combined WHG and EHG as Hunter-Gatherer, instead of counting EHG as part of Metal Age Invader. Also it seems that some of WHG is counted as Farmer (considering that those Early European Farmers had some minor WHG ancestry - at least ca. 15%).

Caburn
11-13-2016, 12:35 AM
Ancient European Origins

48% Hunter-Gatherer
41% Farmer
11% Metal Age Invader
00% Non-European

myOrigins

100% European

53% British Isles
39% Western and Central Europe
08% Eastern Europe

~

MitchellSince1893
11-13-2016, 12:37 AM
My Mother, me, Father, Father's paternal half sister, Father's maternal half brother. All 5 of us are mostly of Colonial American heritage i.e. British Isles with some German and Scandinavian thrown in.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/14/8c/5d/148c5d145bc443d6552d8fe7a4398f28.png

jortita
11-13-2016, 12:53 AM
0% Hunter-Gatherer
14% Farmer
49% Metal Age Invader
37% Non European


The glossary does say that some of the European groups contributed to non European groups. So people with some non European ftdna myorigins ancestry can show 0% non European in the ancient origins one as this is possibly subsumed under one of the European ancient groups especially for people with North Asian ancestry or partly East Asian, it might also be for ASI related

XooR
11-13-2016, 01:01 AM
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee370/xoorslug/FTDNA%20Ancient2_zps3kj2se1c.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/xoorslug/media/FTDNA%20Ancient2_zps3kj2se1c.jpg.html)

Tomenable
11-13-2016, 01:11 AM
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee370/xoorslug/FTDNA%20Ancient2_zps3kj2se1c.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/xoorslug/media/FTDNA%20Ancient2_zps3kj2se1c.jpg.html)

So in your family only women hunt? :biggrin1:

I have "gathering - expert level" in CV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b56eAUCTLok

cvolt
11-13-2016, 01:28 AM
44% hunter gatherer
44% farmer
11% metal age invader

vettor
11-13-2016, 01:38 AM
The inaccuracy fault lays in only 10 ancient samples used..............maybe they should have used double or triple that amount

Tz85
11-13-2016, 01:43 AM
Seriously my mom is 30% Middle Eastern in more recent times, and 0 non European in ancient times? FTDNA consistently fails.

Abd.H
11-13-2016, 02:00 AM
Seriously my mom is 30% Middle Eastern in more recent times, and 0 non European in ancient times? FTDNA consistently fails.
I scored 79% middle eastern in myorigins and only 3% non European in ancient origins



Very similar to the Cappadocian Greek as expected.
Also I noticed that my result is similar to those results for Asimakidis' relatives especially the 65% farmer ,except my 3% non European


Mother's brother:
Metal age invader: 34
Farmer: 66
Hunter gatherer: 0
Non European: 0

Maternal grandmother (same results for her brother)
Metal age invader: 35
Farmer: 65
Hunter gatherer: 0
Non European: 0

Paternal grandmother's sister:
Metal age invader: 35
Farmer: 65
Hunter gatherer: 0
Non European: 0



My results :
Farmer: 65%
Metal age invader: 32%
Hunther- Gatherer: 0%
Non-European: 3%

Abd.H
11-13-2016, 02:03 AM
I can see that Asia Minor and Farmer get mixed up or similar in this sense.

Yes ,I think that because I scored 60% Asia Minor in myorigins and 65% Farmer in ancient origins

Principe
11-13-2016, 02:54 AM
Yes ,I think that because I scored 60% Asia Minor in myorigins and 65% Farmer in ancient origins


I got 63% Farmer in Ancient Myorigins, I got 31% Asia Minor in Myorigins, there has to be some correlation between Farmer and Asia Minor, my other two results are 16% Metal Worker, 19% Hunter Gather and 2% Non-European.

curiousII
11-13-2016, 03:49 AM
45% Hunter-Gatherer
43% Farmer
12% Metal Age Invader
0% Non-European

evon
11-13-2016, 04:07 AM
I would say this estimate is flawed and useless for non-Europeans..

My results:
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp207/vulcanphoto/moi_1.png

shazou
11-13-2016, 04:33 AM
http://i.imgur.com/7TEfohi.jpg

sktibo
11-13-2016, 04:47 AM
44% hunter gatherer
47% Farmer
9% Metal Age.

Why would my Yamnaya be so so low? My ANE usually calculates to around 21% and 18% for my mother. Western hunter gatherer usually calculates to around 40%.

What are your MyOrigins percentages again?

pegasus
11-13-2016, 04:49 AM
Here are my results:
3/4 Afghan Pashtun and 1/4 Afghan Tajik. (With some Dardic (Pashai) admixture as well).

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15000598_1480350358659981_4617286837696813731_o.jp g

Strangely enough, the components' percentages produced an error since they do not add up to 100% (99% actually, since 59% + 24% + 3%+ 13% = 99%). I don't know where that other 1% represents.

My component, Metal Age Invader, seems to be the highest out of the users here and what I have seen so far. Based on the descriptions on the FTDNA website, it seems to have stemmed from Yamnaya and Corded Ware culture.

Could it also represent CHG and/or EHG as well?

I think this is catered to Europeans not West Asians and S/SC Asians. A lot of the Neolithic Iranian like ancestry must be hidden in the Metal Age Invader, I noticed the same with Jesus's results.

kenji.aryan
11-13-2016, 04:59 AM
Parent 1

Metal age invader 62
Farmer 17
HG 2
Non euro 19

Parent 2

Metal age invader 59
Farmer 18
HG 4
Non euro 19


DONT QUOTE

A Norfolk L-M20
11-13-2016, 05:12 AM
What are your MyOrigins percentages again?

36% British Isles
32% Southern European
27% Scandinavian
6% Eastern Europe

In paper documentation, as below on signature, 100% English.

surbakhunWeesste
11-13-2016, 05:20 AM
I was going thru the scores here and I calculated numbers on the fly, I had to redo it on a calculator because I read over 100% for at least two scores. :amen: what math is that!!!!

Like the user Kenji Aryan's post for parent 1 adds up to 107% and A norfolk L-M20 adds up to 101% or am I tripping?

basmaci
11-13-2016, 05:58 AM
https://s20.postimg.org/kcdtkj2u5/anc.jpg

A Norfolk L-M20
11-13-2016, 06:07 AM
I was going thru the scores here and I calculated numbers on the fly, I had to redo it on a calculator because I read over 100% for at least two scores. :amen: what math is that!!!!

Like the user Kenji Aryan's post for parent 1 adds up to 107% and A norfolk L-M20 adds up to 101% or am I tripping?

9% IAI
47% farmer
44% HG
0% NE

I seem to score on the high side for early European farmer, and on the low side for ANE and IAI. As a NW European. I can't really explain how that tallies up to my recorded roots. It doesn't seem to reflect massive Yamnaya.

kenji.aryan
11-13-2016, 06:09 AM
I was going thru the scores here and I calculated numbers on the fly, I had to redo it on a calculator because I read over 100% for at least two scores. :amen: what math is that!!!!

Like the user Kenji Aryan's post for parent 1 adds up to 107% and A norfolk L-M20 adds up to 101% or am I tripping?


My bad it was 62% .

12563

vettor
11-13-2016, 06:11 AM
I was going thru the scores here and I calculated numbers on the fly, I had to redo it on a calculator because I read over 100% for at least two scores. :amen: what math is that!!!!

Like the user Kenji Aryan's post for parent 1 adds up to 107% and A norfolk L-M20 adds up to 101% or am I tripping?

ftdna has a tendency to only round up .............it happens to my wife in myorigins...99% european 2% anatolian.

it is not a big issue

Lugus
11-13-2016, 06:41 AM
My results:

Hunter Gatherer - 32%
Farmer - 55%
Metal Age Invader - 11%
Non European - 2%

Jessie
11-13-2016, 06:42 AM
Both my brother and myself are tested at FTDNA. We both come out 100% British Isles. His Ancient Origin breakdown is the exact same as mine.

http://i66.tinypic.com/117r8yw.png

Dewsloth
11-13-2016, 07:09 AM
23% MAI
58% Farmer
19% HG
0% Non-European ... Wow, the Lebanese half of my family is going to be surprised this Thanksgiving!

sktibo
11-13-2016, 07:17 AM
36% British Isles
32% Southern European
27% Scandinavian
6% Eastern Europe

In paper documentation, as below on signature, 100% English.

Thank you, I wanted to know because your score was close to mine ( 46 farm, 43 hg, 11 metal).. so I wanted to know if there were other similarities.. it looks like we're both 36% British isles score as well.. of course, this might not mean anything.

Heber
11-13-2016, 08:07 AM
I would have liked to see comparison (in my case) with Rathlin and Ballynahatty as they are now reference samples and provide a specific point on the map. I would also like to see comparison to ancient Y-DNA and mtDNA.
I would expect that in the future when we have thousands of aDNA samples we will get more granularity in the maps.

rivergirl
11-13-2016, 08:11 AM
Tested, MAI, Farmer, HG, NE
Me. 12, 42, 46, 0
Mum 11, 43, 46, 0
M Aunt 10, 40, 50, 0
M 2 cousin 11, 43, 46, 0
M 2 cousin 12, 41, 47, 0
M 3 cousin 13, 41, 46, 0
P 3 cousin 14, 39, 46, 0
P 3 cousin 14, 40, 46, 0

My maternal line is Eng, Irl, Scandy.
My paternal line is Eng and Irl.
Cousins are Eng, Irl and small west European.
All yDNA are R1b L21, R1b L48 and I1 L338.
MtDNA are V, K1c2, U4, and one cousin is T1

Morges
11-13-2016, 09:13 AM
Interesting stuff.

Mine:

15% Hunter-Gatherer
63% Farmer
22% Metal Age Invader
0% Non-European

John Doe
11-13-2016, 09:38 AM
My results

21% Metal Age invader

62% Farmer

17% Hunter Gatherer

0% Non-European.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-13-2016, 09:55 AM
Maybe not too surprising, but it looks to me like the further South you go in terms of ancestry the higher the percentage of "Farmer"? John

sktibo
11-13-2016, 10:49 AM
Do a lot of other people find their ancient origins doesn't agree with similar gedmatch calculators?

Little bit
11-13-2016, 11:18 AM
Mine
Majority UK/Irish w/minor German/Swiss:
12564

Polish mother-in-law:
12565

I have 6 FF accounts and all work except one. Everytime I try to run my husband's Ancient Origins it gives the "Houston, we have a problem..." page

Waldemar
11-13-2016, 11:22 AM
50% Hunter-Gatherer
36% Farmer
14% Metal Age Invader
0% non-European

evon
11-13-2016, 11:23 AM
Here are my family members all in one..

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp207/vulcanphoto/all.png

I suspect eastern Norwegians and Swedes will get less Farmer and more HG..

firemonkey
11-13-2016, 12:00 PM
46% Hunter gatherer
41% Farmer
13% Metal age invader

Father

45% Hunter gatherer
42% Farmer
13% Metal age invader


For comparison my Eurogenes ANE K7


ANE 15.28
ASE 2.63
WHG-UHG 65.21
East_Eurasian 0.54
West_African -
East_African 1.23
ENF 15.05


Father

ANE 15.01
ASE 2.38
WHG-UHG 64.11
East_Eurasian -
West_African -
East_African 0.23
ENF 18.26

Heber
11-13-2016, 12:50 PM
Do a lot of other people find their ancient origins doesn't agree with similar gedmatch calculators?

Here are my results compared to the different GEDMATCH calculators.

https://www.pinterest.com/gerardcorcoran/gedmatch/?etslf=16560&eq=GEDMATCH

MDLP is the closest.

Baltimore1937
11-13-2016, 01:59 PM
Here's mine:

12% Metal Age Invader
43% Farmer
46% Hunter-Gatherer
0% non-European

rms2
11-13-2016, 02:08 PM
Here is my Eurogenes_ANE K7 result for comparison.

12567

kingjohn
11-13-2016, 02:10 PM
it seams they count non -european as
east asian allells and african allells
basmaci and asikamidis father are more hunter than me in 1% .....: :)
if i follow there map correct lets
remember that they dont use villabruna for the hunter gatherers componnet
only : la brana, loschabur , and motola
so the UHG could hide in the farmer component
for m e personally it is close to my near east k13 kurd calcultor so good shot by them.
i am still waiting to the updated clusters .......
regards
adan

Lirio100
11-13-2016, 02:22 PM
Mother: 15% Metal Age
44% farmer
41% Hunter Gatherer

Mine: 14% MA
40% Farmer
46% HG

Sister: 13% MA
42% Farmer
45% HG

Gedmatch with FTDNA data: Anatolian Farmer 12.13%, Baltic Hunter Gatherer 55%, Med Farmer 28.27, ME Herder, 2.94 %

MyOrigins: Western/Central Eur 55%, Scandinavia 26%, Eastern Eur 8%, Brit Isles 3%, J Diaspora 7%, Central Asia 1%

Piquerobi
11-13-2016, 02:23 PM
A joke. They have the "metal age invader" component coming out of Georgia in their map. It is clear they are associating it with CHG. That's why West Asians, Near Easterners and Southern Italians are getting the highest Yamnaya scores! Fortunately, on Gedmatch one can see the results of Hunter Gatherer, Neolithic and Yamnaya samples and make up the conclusions on his own.

Asimakidis
11-13-2016, 02:25 PM
@Kingjohn:
Yes, but remember that my father is only half anatolian greek, rest is thracian. :)




(https://www.familytreedna.com/my/ancient-origins-map/?group=metallurgist)
My father's 2nd cousin (full thracian greek from Istanbul) would probably indicate that my paternal grandfather probably would have similar results.

MAI: 21 F:56 HG:23 NoE:0


21%
Metal Age Invader


(https://www.familytreedna.com/my/ancient-origins-map/?group=metallurgist)



56%
Farmer


(https://www.familytreedna.com/my/ancient-origins-map/?group=farmer)



23%
Hunter-Gatherer


(https://www.familytreedna.com/my/ancient-origins-map/?group=hunter)



0%
non-European


(https://www.familytreedna.com/my/ancient-origins-map/?group=other)

rms2
11-13-2016, 02:29 PM
A joke. They have the "metal age invader" component coming out of Georgia in their map. It is clear they are associating it with CHG. That's why West Asians, Near Easterners and Southern Italians are getting the highest Yamnaya scores! Fortunately, on Gedmatch one can see the results of Hunter Gatherers, Neolithic and Yamnaya samples and make up the conclusions on his own.

I agree 100%.

Clearly neither Yamnaya nor Corded Ware originated in the Caucasus. As David has said a number of times, CHG was probably transmitted to the steppe via women.

kingjohn
11-13-2016, 02:35 PM
but chg allells were present in corded ware and yamnaya
so those are allells we share with those ancients ....
regards
Adam

if i remember laziridis chg themselfs are 70% iranian

rms2
11-13-2016, 02:39 PM
but chg allells were present in corded ware and yamnaya
so those are allells we share with those ancients ....
regards
Adam

if i remember laziridis chg themselfs are 70% iranian

Yeah, but CHG wasn't all there was to it. It's a mistake to rely on CHG alone and characterize it as "Metal Age Invader".

RCO
11-13-2016, 02:43 PM
I have
10% Metal Invader
51% Farmer
32% Hunter-Gatherer
8% Non-European. Here NW African, Berber, SSA, Native Amerindian.

The Metal is more or less associated with the CHG + Yamnaya ? But in the year 10000 AD I think CHG would be mostly associated with haplogroup J (J1 and J2) in Northern Middle Eastern regions.
And we don't need to go to the Bronze Age to find invaders because we invaded everything (and unfortunately also killed and enslaved more people than anybody) in the last 500 years.

kingjohn
11-13-2016, 02:48 PM
yes but it is better than nothing no :)
any good word you have on this effort of ftdna ?
there hunter gatherer
i sprobably composed of :{ whg-shg, and apperntly ehg }
regards
Adam

MfA
11-13-2016, 02:55 PM
Armenian1
38% Metal Age Invader
62% Farmer
0% Hunter-Gatherer
0% non-European

Armenian2
35% Metal Age Invader
65% Farmer
0% Hunter-Gatherer
0% non-European

Talysh
45% Metal Age Invader
52% Farmer
0% Hunter-Gatherer
3% non-European


http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,9473.0.html

kingjohn
11-13-2016, 03:20 PM
thanks for sharing
it looks like hunter gatherer is the true ancient european genes/ allells
and russians and northen european score it big time :D
regards
Adam

Tz85
11-13-2016, 03:33 PM
Looks to me that Metal Age Invader is the Levant element, Farmer contains the East European, and Anatolian element. Hunter-Gatherer contains the Northern European element, and non-European is Africa and parts of Eastern Asia.

Stellaritic
11-13-2016, 03:35 PM
Yeah, but CHG wasn't all there was to it. It's a mistake to rely on CHG alone and characterize it as "Metal Age Invader".

I think ftDNA are doing a great job by trying to oversimplify things for beginners. They didn't feel the need to label the(Native European) EHG component of the Yamnaya genome "Invader/foreign" since it was already assigned to your Hunter-gatherer score
.

A Norfolk L-M20
11-13-2016, 05:02 PM
It has made me rethink my ancient admixture. It does correlate with a number of tests now that suggest:


I have DNA patterns that keeps suggesting or being confused for Southern European
I have levels of Early Neolithic Farmer that are unusually high for a NW European
I have levels of ANE and now "MAI" that are on the low side for a NW European


Now my paper ancestry over the past 300 years has been incredibly local to East Anglia and SE England. It has been proposed that my "Southern Euro" may have arrived here during French migration events for example, the Norman. I am open to this possibility, although I really cant accept recent immigration or Huguenot as being very likely for my family. Family history, records, likenesses - combined with their fairly isolated rural locations just don't make recent NPEs with "Southern Europeans" likely, and most Huguenot and other protestant refugees were skilled and urban - often falling into the bourgeoisie.

I just wish there were more testers from SE England, Netherlands, Denmark, and France, that have recorded ancestries similar to mine - local and rural, with which to compare with. I can't be the only NW European with these patterns. I still really do believe that my admixture is fairly representative of a local population, rather than being the result of recent admixture in recent centuries. Other than Norman and Medieval French admixture, what else can explain these Southern and ENF patterns for an East Anglian?

I'm pleased that FT-DNA have added this feature, even with it's warts, and confusions between CHG and Yamna, etc. It has helped me if not explain, then to ask new questions about my ancient population admixture. I don't think that SE English would be expected to have high ENF, or EEF, and low ANE and "MAI" / Yamna? Our close cousins, the Irish and Scottish, seem to be such a better known quantity. But what is making me different, isn't always what I expect. Or am I making too much of this?

MAI 9%
HG 44%
Farmer 47%
Non Euro 0%

rms2
11-13-2016, 05:15 PM
I think ftDNA are doing a great job by trying to oversimplify things for beginners. They didn't feel the need to label the(Native European) EHG component of the Yamnaya genome "Invader/foreign" since it was already assigned to your Hunter-gatherer score
.

Making errors does not simplify things. Errors just make things more complex in the end, when one finally gets around to straightening it all out. For example, we are still trying to recover from the old Paleolithic-R1b-in-the-Iberian-Ice-Age-Refuge error.

rms2
11-13-2016, 05:19 PM
It has made me rethink my ancient admixture. It does correlate with a number of tests now that suggest:


I have DNA patterns that keeps suggesting or being confused for Southern European
I have levels of Early Neolithic Farmer that are unusually high for a NW European
I have levels of ANE and now "MAI" that are on the low side for a NW European


Now my paper ancestry over the past 300 years has been incredibly local to East Anglia and SE England. It has been proposed that my "Southern Euro" may have arrived here during French migration events for example, the Norman. I am open to this possibility, although I really cant accept recent immigration or Huguenot as being very likely for my family. Family history, records, likenesses - combined with their fairly isolated rural locations just don't make recent NPEs with "Southern Europeans" likely, and most Huguenot and other protestant refugees were skilled and urban - often falling into the bourgeoisie.

I just wish there were more testers from SE England, Netherlands, Denmark, and France, that have recorded ancestries similar to mine - local and rural, with which to compare with. I can't be the only NW European with these patterns. I still really do believe that my admixture is fairly representative of a local population, rather than being the result of recent admixture in recent centuries. Other than Norman and Medieval French admixture, what else can explain these Southern and ENF patterns for an East Anglian?

I'm pleased that FT-DNA have added this feature, even with it's warts, and confusions between CHG and Yamna, etc. It has helped me if not explain, then to ask new questions about my ancient population admixture. I don't think that SE English would be expected to have high ENF, or EEF, and low ANE and "MAI" / Yamna? Our close cousins, the Irish and Scottish, seem to be such a better known quantity. But what is making me different, isn't always what I expect. Or am I making too much of this?

MAI 9%
HG 44%
Farmer 47%
Non Euro 0%

I don't see your ancientOrigins result as all that out of the ordinary for a person of British Isles ancestry.

Your scores are within a point or two of those of most of the other Isles posters on this thread, including mine.

AnnieD
11-13-2016, 05:39 PM
Edit: Deleted response to Norfolk L-M20 due to tangential reference to modern populations & My Origins per Vettor's post.

vettor
11-13-2016, 05:41 PM
the test is called ancient origins,
I doubt anyone here knows their ancient origins, so saying I am british or spanish or russian origin etc makes no sense and is not part of your ancient origins

vettor
11-13-2016, 05:48 PM
Maybe not too surprising, but it looks to me like the further South you go in terms of ancestry the higher the percentage of "Farmer"? John

and further North the percentage favours hunters

maybe metal workers represent west-asians

rms2
11-13-2016, 05:50 PM
the test is called ancient origins,
I doubt anyone here knows their ancient origins, so saying I am british or spanish or russian origin etc makes no sense and is not part of your ancient origins

Except that people of the same modern national origin tend to get very similar results due to shared history/ancestry, so it does make perfect sense to talk about a typical British result, a typical Italian result, etc.

vettor
11-13-2016, 05:58 PM
Except that people of various modern national origins tend to get very similar results due to shared history/ancestry, so it does make perfect sense to talk about a typical British result, a typical Italian result, etc.

a typical this or that is based on the individual and we are all different,........... there is no scientific theory for typical Italian or British etc..............one would have a better chance to find a typical Anglian or Cornish than a typical Englishman

AnnieD
11-13-2016, 06:01 PM
the test is called ancient origins,
I doubt anyone here knows their ancient origins, so saying I am british or spanish or russian origin etc makes no sense and is not part of your ancient origins

Got it ... I think. Validate this new offering by comparing results only against with our assumed heritage (ethnicity?) group on this "ancient" test alone. Deleted tangential response to English member (but intent was to question whether FTDNA offers reliable admixture programs of any era, ancient or not).

vettor
11-13-2016, 06:06 PM
Got it ... I think. Validate this new offering by comparing results only against with our assumed heritage (ethnicity?) group on this "ancient" test alone. Deleted tangential response to English member (but intent was to question whether FTDNA offers reliable admixture programs of any era, ancient or not).

Basically, look at the date range of the 10 ancient samples used...............and then place your line in the same ancient date range................clearly the chances your line never moved from where they are now is a stretch

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-13-2016, 06:20 PM
I think ftDNA are doing a great job by trying to oversimplify things for beginners. They didn't feel the need to label the(Native European) EHG component of the Yamnaya genome "Invader/foreign" since it was already assigned to your Hunter-gatherer score
.

I do think you make a very valid point. Many testers and potential testers (including myself ) have limited knowledge of history and genetics. Tell the average "Joe" that they are 20% Yamnaya or whatever and they won't have a clue what you are talking about.
I'm all for simplified descriptions, provided they have a degree of accuracy of course. If people are willing and able to dig further into it, that's great too. :) John

thrax
11-13-2016, 06:21 PM
20% Metal Age Invader
57% Farmer
23% Hunter Gatherer
0% non-European

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-13-2016, 06:36 PM
I don't see your ancientOrigins result as all that out of the ordinary for a person of British Isles ancestry.

Your scores are within a point or two of those of most of the other Isles posters on this thread, including mine.

My knowledge of this is more limited than many, but I've thought the same. I think really we need to think in terms of EARLY input into the British Isles in terms of things like " Mediterranian" "Iberian" or whatever, not some sailor from the Spanish Armarda. It does appear from what people have posted that the closer peoples' recent ancestry is to the Mediterranean, the more "Farmer" they get, so the mix of "Farmer" and "Hunter Gatherer" in a "typical" British person doesn't seem too out of place to me. :) John

Heber
11-13-2016, 07:01 PM
The way I interpret the results is that almost 47% of my ancestry was contributed by Hunter Gatherers who came from the Mesolithic wave from the Levent, 40% by those who arrived in the Neolithic wave, possibly with Cardial Ware from Anatolia and who were not too dissimilar to the Ballinahatty lady and a further 12% came from the Bell Beaker culture not too different from the Rathlin individuals who comprised a mixture of Steppes and Caucasus DNA and whose ancestors may have originated from the South Caucasus in Georgia not too far from the migration path of the previous two waves.
Still lots more ancient DNA required as the handful of samples we have to date cannot tell the whole story.

A Norfolk L-M20
11-13-2016, 08:20 PM
the test is called ancient origins,
I doubt anyone here knows their ancient origins, so saying I am british or spanish or russian origin etc makes no sense and is not part of your ancient origins

I'm afraid I'm going to have to beg to differ. I would expect to share similar descent, and ancient admixture with other local people of long term local descent. Background admixture occurs as a result of major admixture events not in recent family in a line, but between populations.

Therefore I am interested in comparing the average ancient admixture of an East Anglian. With for example, an Irish person. Or a Dane of long term local descent. That way we can better understand how different ancient populations have admixed in the past. If it turned out that the SE English had on average more Neolithic Farmer, and less Yamnaya, than other local populations in NW Europe, then I'd want to know why, and how it happened. The clue is in shared descent.

JMcB
11-13-2016, 08:23 PM
Well, for what it's worth here's my results.

12569

My Origins: 100% European, 75% British Isles, 19% Southern European, 6% Eastern European

Dubhthach
11-13-2016, 08:50 PM
Here are my results:

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/paul-ancient-origins.jpg

48% -- Hunter-Gatherer
38% -- Farmer
14% -- Metal Age Invader
0% -- Non-European

My Other-half's results are:
84% -- Non-European (they need some ancient Asian samples stat!)
8% -- Farmer
6% -- Hunter-Gatherer
3% -- Metal Age Invader

Catkin
11-13-2016, 08:55 PM
My result. High metal age, quite low farmer for a Brit. I'm mostly southern English and Irish, with a little bit of Scottish and Welsh.

https://i.imgsafe.org/8bdaed9eac.png

Dubhthach
11-13-2016, 08:56 PM
Which means FTDNA has goofed up and omitted the EHG component that should be represented in "Metal Age Invaders". Probably they are conflating EHG with the Hunter-Gatherer total and mixing EHG and WHG.

It's interesting that they didn't include the Mal'ta boy in their source references, I imagine this would have potentially help spilt out WHG vs. EHG.

Dubhthach
11-13-2016, 08:58 PM
My result. High metal age, quite low farmer for a Brit. I'm mostly southern English and Irish, with a little bit of Scottish and Welsh.

https://i.imgsafe.org/8bdaed9eac.png

Seen I'm from the neighbouring island, it kinda interesting to see that I have 2% higher Hunter-Gatherer and as result 2% lower Metal Age compared to you. Given they had to go through Britain to get to Ireland some dilution is to be expected I imagine :)

A Norfolk L-M20
11-13-2016, 09:05 PM
Seen I'm from the neighbouring island, it kinda interesting to see that I have 2% higher Hunter-Gatherer and as result 2% lower Metal Age compared to you. Given they had to go through Britain to get to Ireland some dilution is to be expected I imagine :)

But over here on the eastern side of the other island. I get only 9% metal age invader, and a whopping 47% Farmer!

Dubhthach
11-13-2016, 09:11 PM
But over here on the eastern side of the other island. I get only 9% metal gear invader, and a whopping 47% Farmer!

Fecking Bogger/Culchie! ;) (NB. countryperson)

Though seriously I do wonder if there is increase in stuff like Farmer into England due to movement(s?) during the middle ages from Europe.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-13-2016, 09:23 PM
From the U106 project group a conference report by Jennifer Zinck which maybe helps understand the thinking behind these calculations.
Sorry to make this "personal" but the reference to "Kalash" which I've been boring people to death with because I scored some on DNaLand together with other indicators I've had on other tests like Finnish, Ashkenazi and even Native American, can possibly be explained by some Ancient Asian/Steppe ancestry which I was speculating on in another post a little earlier?
"Expansions of Metal Age genes are shown in populations that preserve the genes. The Kalash do not share much ancestry with any of their neighbors. The culture is unique and there are only about 3,000 members. Their language is Dardic family of the Indo-Aryan branch. Their ancient rites include making of distilled spirits, smoking marijuana, and animal sacrifices. They appear to be descendants of the original Metal Age people from the Steppe."
We tend to discount these "minority" DNA results as "errors", but maybe they just carry the wrong labels? John

http://www.ancestorcentral.com/12th-international-conference-on-genetic-genealogy-saturday/

Dubhthach
11-13-2016, 09:26 PM
From the U106 project group a conference report by Jennifer Zinck which maybe helps understand the thinking behind these calculations.
Sorry to make this "personal" but the reference to "Kalash" which I've been boring people to death with because I scored some on DNaLand together with other indicators I've had on other tests like Finnish, Ashkenazi and even Native American, can possibly be explained by some Ancient Asian/Steppe ancestry which I was speculating on in another post a little earlier?
"Expansions of Metal Age genes are shown in populations that preserve the genes. The Kalash do not share much ancestry with any of their neighbors. The culture is unique and there are only about 3,000 members. Their language is Dardic family of the Indo-Aryan branch. Their ancient rites include making of distilled spirits, smoking marijuana, and animal sacrifices. They appear to be descendants of the original Metal Age people from the Steppe."
We tend to discount these "minority" DNA results as "errors", but maybe they just carry the wrong labels? John

http://www.ancestorcentral.com/12th-international-conference-on-genetic-genealogy-saturday/

I don't got Kalash on my dna.land but got the neighbouring Indus Valley at 1.9%

12570

Varun R
11-13-2016, 10:05 PM
Invader component looks more like Iran Neolithic to me. I score a whopping 61 percent of it. It also appears to be absorbing some ASI, as I'm getting only 23 percent non-European. Other scores= 13 percent farmer and 2 percent hunter gatherer.

MitchellSince1893
11-13-2016, 10:40 PM
My Mother, me, Father, Father's paternal half sister, Father's maternal half brother. All 5 of us are mostly of Colonial American heritage i.e. British Isles with some German and Scandinavian thrown in.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/14/8c/5d/148c5d145bc443d6552d8fe7a4398f28.png

Updated with 2 more relatives...father's paternal half sister (FPHS), and father's maternal half brother (FMHB ). Seems pretty consistent

MDLP K23b Early Hunter Gather (EHG) and Early European Farmer (EFF) for comparison

EHG, EEF
_Mom: 38.69, 26.76
__Me: 39.89, 25.45
_Dad: 36.5, 26.53
FPHS: 32.93, 27.99
FMHB: 36.00, 30.06

MacEochaidh
11-13-2016, 11:13 PM
My Results:
12571
Hunter-Gatherer 43%
Farmer 45%
Metal Age 12%

I'm 75% Irish/Scot and 25% French Canadian. Pretty high on the Farmer.

sktibo
11-13-2016, 11:30 PM
My Results:
12571
Hunter-Gatherer 43%
Farmer 45%
Metal Age 12%

I'm 75% Irish/Scot and 25% French Canadian. Pretty high on the Farmer.

You and I only have a 1% difference on this, in that I got 46 farmer 11 metal age. I'm guessing if you run GEDmatch admixture calcs such as mdlp k23b you'll have HG as your highest component? Also curious as to your regular MyOrigins score.
Thank you

MacEochaidh
11-14-2016, 12:04 AM
You and I only have a 1% difference on this, in that I got 46 farmer 11 metal age. I'm guessing if you run GEDmatch admixture calcs such as mdlp k23b you'll have HG as your highest component? Also curious as to your regular MyOrigins score.
Thank you

Yes, I'm 33.12 Hunter-Gatherer and 26.68 Early Farmer on MDLP K23b.

Here are MyOrigins results:
12574

Are you all French Canadian, or a mix of FRC, Irish, Scots, and Native?

sktibo
11-14-2016, 12:19 AM
Yes, I'm 33.12 Hunter-Gatherer and 26.68 Early Farmer on MDLP K23b.

Here are MyOrigins results:
12574

Are you all French Canadian, or a mix of FRC, Irish, Scots, and Native?

Most ancestors from Scotland, some Irish, French Canadian is only 8% on paper but it seems to show up in way greater amounts than that on DNA tests, Small amount cree/assiniboine/salteaux Native American..
My regular MyOrigins results are way different than yours 51% WC Europe, 36% BI, 11% Scandi

MDLP k23b: 35.38 Hunter-Gatherer, 28.36 Early farmer

PLogan
11-14-2016, 12:55 AM
Father: 45% Hunter - Gatherer, 44% Farmer, 11% Metal Age Invader
Mother: 46% Hunter - Gatherer, 44% Farmer, 10% Metal Age Invader
Myself: 45% Hunter - Gatherer, 45% Farmer, 10% Metal Age Invader
Sibling: 45% Hunter - Gatherer, 44% Farmer, 12% Metal Age Invader

Note my sibling at 101%.... :P

Heber
11-14-2016, 05:36 AM
As John pointed out above the extensive FTDNA2016 conference notes posted by Jennifer Zinck are well worth a read.
I understand Mike Hammers presentation will be posted shortly.

http://www.ancestorcentral.com/12th-international-conference-on-genetic-genealogy-saturday/

vettor
11-14-2016, 06:23 AM
Fecking Bogger/Culchie! ;) (NB. countryperson)

Though seriously I do wonder if there is increase in stuff like Farmer into England due to movement(s?) during the middle ages from Europe.

IIRC a few years ago, scholars and scientists said farming arrived in britain very early , .............maybe Jean rememberers

or was it
http://theconversation.com/ancient-britons-had-wheat-2000-years-before-they-had-farms-38012

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-14-2016, 08:42 AM
I thought this reference to Estonians and Scots (ANE) was interesting. John

12577

dnamania
11-14-2016, 08:46 AM
MDLP K23b to Ancient Origins Convertor:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9071-MDLP-K23b-to-Ancient-Origins-Convertor


I designed a simple convertor, you can get approximate results. Keep in mind this convertor maybe not useful for some populations and do not generate meaningful results for some individuals.

Try it only for fun.


MDLP K23b >> Ancient Origins Convertor (Version 1)


Metal Age Invader = South Central Asian + Ancestral Altaic + 1/3 Caucasian + 2/3 South Indian

Farmer = European Early Farmer + Near East + 2/3 North African + 2/3 Caucasian

Hunter Gatherer = European Hunters Gatherers

Non European = East Eurasian components + Oceanian components + SSA components + 1/3 North African 1/3 South Indian



Maybe this one is more useful for some populations or individuals:


MDLP K23b >> Ancient Origins Convertor (Version 2)


Metal Age Invader = South Central Asian + 1/3 Caucasian + 2/3 South Indian

Farmer = European Early Farmer + Near East + 2/3 Caucasian

Hunter Gatherer = European Hunters Gatherers + Ancestral Altaic

Non European = East Eurasian components + SSA components + Oceanian components + 1/3 North African + 1/3 South Indian


Note:
East Eurasian Components: Amerindian, Arctic, Paleo Siberian, East Siberian, Tungus Altaic, South East Asian, Austronesian
Oceanian Components: Australoid, Melano-Polynesian
SSA Components: East African, Subsaharan, African Pygmy, Archaic African, Khoisan

Heber
11-14-2016, 10:42 AM
I may have to go to Georgia to check out this CHG thing:

Ghost of the Vine
In Georgia, science probes the roots of winemaking.

But here in Georgia wines also possess legs of a different kind. Legs that travel. That conquer. That walk out of the Caucasus in the Bronze Age.

http://nationalgeographic.org/projects/out-of-eden-walk/articles/2015-04-ghost-of-the-vine/

A Norfolk L-M20
11-14-2016, 11:14 AM
Could some kind person explain to this novice, if Gedrosia K6 for example, gives me 21% ANE (Ancient North Eurasian), and FT-DNA My Ancient Origins gives me 9% Metal Invasion Invader, how does that equate? If ANE component arrived with Metal Age Invasion? I have to say, Metal Age Invasion is far lower than I expected. I thought based on haplogroup evidence, that it was almost displacement.

Dubhthach
11-14-2016, 11:36 AM
Could some kind person explain to this novice, if Gedrosia K6 for example, gives me 21% ANE (Ancient North Eurasian), and FT-DNA My Ancient Origins gives me 9% Metal Invasion Invader, how does that equate? If ANE component arrived with Metal Age Invasion? I have to say, Metal Age Invasion is far lower than I expected. I thought based on haplogroup evidence, that it was almost displacement.

so my memory might be shot on this but Yamnaya was basically EHG mixed with CHG, with "Eastern Hunter Gather" been made up of a mix of ANE and a population akin to WHG. What's probable is that we are seeing calculator effect and EHG bits from Yamnaya are getting mixed in with "Hunter Gatherer". It would seem that it's only pulling out CHG as distinct, I'd be curious how their calculator would report for Yamnaya remains.

Really to pull out EHG (and ANE in particular) they would have to include the Ma'lta boy genome in their calculator which they didn't.

Theconqueror
11-14-2016, 02:32 PM
39% Hunter-Gatherer
51% Farmer
10% Metal Age Invader
0% Non-European

MarMar81
11-14-2016, 03:10 PM
My results:
25% Hunter-gatherer
59% Farmer
16% Metal Age invader
I'm of full northern italian ancestry.

kingjohn
11-14-2016, 03:47 PM
https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/ftdna/ancient-origins/

from there link in the site finally answere :)

Important: It is possible that Metal Age Invaders, Farmers, and Hunter Gatherers influenced groups in other parts of the world. For this reason, your ancient non-European percentage might be 0%, while your myOrigins ethnic makeup contains percentages for populations outside of Europe.

WilliamAllan
11-14-2016, 04:21 PM
46% Hunter-Gatherer
44% Farmer
8% Metal Age Invader
0% Non-European

I'm surprised to see the low number for Metal Age Invader but as has been discussed here, there may be some problems with this delineation.

kingjohn
11-14-2016, 04:34 PM
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33091-FTDNA-ancientOrigins
regards
Adam

nice to see results of other forum members :)

Dewsloth
11-14-2016, 04:38 PM
https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/ftdna/ancient-origins/

from there link in the site finally answere :)

Important: It is possible that Metal Age Invaders, Farmers, and Hunter Gatherers influenced groups in other parts of the world. For this reason, your ancient non-European percentage might be 0%, while your myOrigins ethnic makeup contains percentages for populations outside of Europe.

It's just a little ironic that their own map of ancient origins shows an ancient origin for the farmers, but won't list that origin in the calculator as anything but European.

12579

Piquerobi
11-14-2016, 04:50 PM
I agree with this poster from Eupedia:


In my case the percentage for Metal-age invader is exactly the same as the Gedrosia in Dodecad K12b, so they do not take into account at all the fact that Yamna only had about 30% of Gedrosia, and the rest was mostly Mesolithic European (North_European in K12b). Therefore a good deal of the Hunter-Gatherer reported in FTDNA is of Indo-European origin and should be listed as Metal-age invaders.

I don't understand how a supposedly serious company like FTDNA could publish such misleading (in fact downright wrong) data, when they have the means to compare customers' genomes directly with Yamna samples and other prehistoric samples (Mesolithic Europeans, Near Eastern farmers). That's really a blow to the image of FTDNA, in my opinion.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33091-FTDNA-ancientOrigins/page2

kingjohn
11-14-2016, 04:58 PM
but if you have african or east asian allells
there algoritem would recognize it as non-european
we can see it in turkish results from this forum
the east asian genes are count as non-european .
about the farmer they ultimatley came from middle east
but they have been in europe for 6000-7000 years i say they are european .... :)
best regards
adam


p.s but the metal age componnet his probably a mixture of chg+ANE +iranian neolithic
so i dont know how european is it it it peaks in india and pakistan......
i think there algoritem recognize all the shared allells with corded ware and yamnaya ...... :\

Piquerobi
11-14-2016, 05:09 PM
p.s but the metal age componnet his probably a mixture of chg+ANE +iranian neolithic
so i dont know how european is it it it peaks in india and pakistan......
i think there algoritem recognize all the shared allells with corded ware and yamnaya ...... :\

We have the samples from Yamnaya. They were EHG + CHG, not just CHG. The Ancient Origins results of Family Tree DNA are clearly misleading.

kingjohn
11-14-2016, 05:21 PM
ok but if you score this component
than you share chg allells with corded ware thats all
regards
adam

A Norfolk L-M20
11-14-2016, 05:28 PM
It's a shame that their MAI (Metal Age Invader) reference is so flawed. I agree that it appears to represent only the CHG (Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer) component, and neither separate out (as if it could) the Western Hunter-Gatherer lion share, nor even identify ANE (Ancient North Eurasian) components of Yamnaya. From this, combined with my ANE results from Gedrosia K6 and a little recalculation, I'd say that my ancient origins are:

37% Early Neolithic Farmer
35% Western Hunter Gatherer
21% Ancient North Eurasian
7% Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer.

As for the true Yamnaya, that would depend on how much of the above WHG has been inherited via them as a component of their ancestry.

So my ancient ancestry for Yamnaya / Copper Age Eurasian Steppe should be between 35% and 63%. By the haplogroup evidence, most likely towards the higher end of that range?

I am a novice, and my maths not the best, so I welcome anyone to correct me. This sounds more logical, and fits the haplogroup evidence better. If it was nearly two thirds, then most or all of the remaining was Early Neolithic Farmer, spreading from the Levant and the Fertile Crescent, and perhaps almost totally displacing the surviving Western Hunter-Gatherers in Europe. This is a higher percentage of survival of pre-Bronze Age farmers than I expected. Am I alone? I got the impression from haplogroups, that it was almost total displacement. But here we see some sizable survival of Neolithic Eurasians in our European genome, particularly but not exclusively in Southern Europe.

I'd be interested in looking at mtDNA haplogroups in Europe a bit closer. There may be more that belonged to European Neolithic Farmers than we thought. I think this is really exciting - but as I said, I'm just a novice - what does the Board say?

Piquerobi
11-14-2016, 05:37 PM
^ A good way to calculate it would be to sum the Gedrosia and North European Dodecad Oracle k12b results (which one can get at Gedmatch). Gedrosia was absent in Neolithic Europeans. The North European component was present though at a lower degree (due to Hunter Gatherer ancestry): the Neolithic Irish woman (Kit M427312), for example, scored ~ 13 North European, and yet Modern Britons are between ~ 40 to 45 North European, hence that difference came via Yamnaya. On Dodecad k12b Yamnaya is mainly "North European" (the Dodecad k12b "North European" component) with minor Gedrosia.

Dodecad Oracle k12b results of the Yamnaya sample from Sok River:


Kit M020637 (Yamnaya_Sok_River I0443
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 60.8
2 Gedrosia 27.41
3 Atlantic_Med 5.95
4 Caucasus 2.92
5 Siberian 2.73
6 Sub_Saharan 0.18

dp
11-14-2016, 07:28 PM
DPs mom & her maternal 1st cousin
MAI = 12
F = 44
HG = 44
nE = 0

my other kits score within 2% of these.
dp :-)

E_M81_I3A
11-14-2016, 07:28 PM
My results:
Farmer: 55 %
Hunter-Gatherer: 23%
Metal Age Invader: 12%
non-European: 10 %

Portuguese:
Farmer: 54%
Hunter-Gatherer: 31%
Metal Age Invader: 12%
non-European: 3%

Algerian:
Farmer: 65%
non-European: 19%
Metal Age Invader: 9%
Hunter-Gatherer: 7%

Probably still not perfect, but the best tool so far for Ancient Dna...

Star93
11-14-2016, 09:03 PM
Farmer: 62%
Metal age invader: 14%
Hunter- Gatherer: 24%
Non-European: 0%

Generalissimo
11-14-2016, 09:10 PM
Looks like nonsense.

Amerijoe
11-14-2016, 10:17 PM
Looks like nonsense.

I respect everyone's opinion, especially a five star chap. Nonsense can be rewarding depending on your perspective. I find the interplay exhibited at this site to be very rewarding. Knowing only one half on my ancestry, all knowledge gathered whether nonsense or not, adds to my search. You see nonsense and I see patterns. Patterns for regions and direction flow. I'm basically a novice on this subject, so I have to use focused reasoning. Maybe my reasoning is nonsense, but when differences in North Britain can be covered by a dime, it gives me food for thought. Other areas seem to fall along similar lines.

What I've learned is another piece to my puzzle. Can't prove phathom dad came from Scotland, but most of the pieces point in that direction.

Posting here also helps slow Alzheimer's. See my post in health & fitness. Even doing nonsense is beneficial.;)

Tjada
11-14-2016, 10:55 PM
My results:


12583

Mike_G
11-15-2016, 12:05 AM
I wonder what my background has that makes my HG results are a few ticks higher than most of the Northern Europeans here (UK types, Evon, Oleg, and Tomenable...so that covers Ireland to Russia). I understand that we're talking minuscule sample sizes, but I'm curious. I'm not sure if Wombat has an FTDNA account, but I'd like to see his numbers for this one.

randwulf
11-15-2016, 01:35 AM
Me: 13% MAI, 47% F, 40% HG, 0% NE
Dad: 12% MAI, 47% F, 42% HG, 0% NE
Mom: 13% MAI, 44% F, 43% HG, 0% NE
Wife: 13% MAI, 48% F, 39% HG, 0% NE
Father in law: 11% MAI, 45% F, 45% HG, 0% NE

ADW_1981
11-15-2016, 03:35 AM
Metal Age Invader ...to where? Certainly not Europe.

9% MAI
45% Farmer
46% HG

Seems like English have lower MAI than far north west Europeans (ie: Norway) and Irish and perhaps Scottish. This is consistent with southern immigration that may have post dated the Anglo-Saxon period that a paper noticed. Forget the one.

khanabadoshi
11-15-2016, 07:46 AM
https://i.gyazo.com/98cb505ac901c6b2a32a2e6e5ea9315a.jpg

60% Metal Age Invader
21% Farmer
17% Non-European
2% Hunter-Gatherer

MyOrigins

https://i.gyazo.com/7eb4c5a77d2d18417fd42571a66fb5d9.png

GMan71
11-15-2016, 07:53 AM
14% MAI, 40% Farmer, 46% HG, 0% NE

jortita
11-15-2016, 08:30 AM
https://i.gyazo.com/98cb505ac901c6b2a32a2e6e5ea9315a.jpg

60% Metal Age Invader
21% Farmer
17% Non-European
2% Hunter-Gatherer

MyOrigins

https://i.gyazo.com/7eb4c5a77d2d18417fd42571a66fb5d9.png

Hi Khana, your Non European seems to be Northeast Asian + Middle Eastern + 1/3 South Asian.

My non European shows as 37% when my Northeast Asian is 4%+ Southeast Asian 21% +1/3 South Asian (42%)= 39% so not sure why this discrepancy of 2%

Kiln
11-15-2016, 09:45 AM
http://i.imgur.com/aVsJJO9.jpg

Ok.

kingjohn
11-15-2016, 05:03 PM
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/47085-Ancient-Origins-Family-Tree-DNA
http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=40629

regards
Adam

wmehar
11-15-2016, 05:56 PM
42%

Metal Age Invader


45%

Farmer

7%

Hunter-Gatherer


5%

non-European

21% central asia
17% South Asia

38% Asia Minor
20% southern Europe
3% Western/Central Europe

Leper
11-15-2016, 07:12 PM
Very disappointing and looks like very misleading. FTDNA should stop creating such rubbish tools.

Amerijoe
11-15-2016, 08:14 PM
Very disappointing and looks like very misleading. FTDNA should stop creating such rubbish tools.

Have you related your misgivings to FTDNA and outlined the appropriate necessary changes to your liking? Anyone can toss a hand grenade, but it takes a trained intellect to provide necessary basis for said statement. Waiting!

Lighten up, have fun, partake in some intellectual banter, but don't throw grenades.:)

dp
11-15-2016, 08:29 PM
https://i.gyazo.com/98cb505ac901c6b2a32a2e6e5ea9315a.jpg

60% Metal Age Invader
21% Farmer
17% Non-European
2% Hunter-Gatherer

MyOrigins

https://i.gyazo.com/7eb4c5a77d2d18417fd42571a66fb5d9.png
I dont like that there are no icons in Anatolia and the Near East. It is too Euro-centric.
Nor do I like the word invader.
Metal working is almost magic. [I used to work for a steel company in Pennsylvania]
dp :-)

dp
11-15-2016, 08:33 PM
Me: 13% MAI, 47% F, 40% HG, 0% NE
Dad: 12% MAI, 47% F, 42% HG, 0% NE
Mom: 13% MAI, 44% F, 43% HG, 0% NE
Wife: 13% MAI, 48% F, 39% HG, 0% NE
Father in law: 11% MAI, 45% F, 45% HG, 0% NE
I would group with your mom on a PCA. My numbers are 13-44-43. :-)
dp :-)

Leper
11-15-2016, 08:38 PM
Have you related your misgivings to FTDNA and outlined the appropriate necessary changes to your liking? Anyone can toss a hand grenade, but it takes a trained intellect to provide necessary basis for said statement. Waiting!

Lighten up, have fun, partake in some intellectual banter, but don't throw grenades.:)

FTDNA deserves to be nuked with that. All they do is misleading their clients and causing more confusion. That's all. As a professional DNA company, I'd expect them not to do sloppy works like this. Especially given the fact that 3rd party amateur tools like Gedmatch are far more popular and accurate than them.

A Norfolk L-M20
11-15-2016, 08:40 PM
It is badly flawed, but it did make me pause for thought - although I was investigating my prehistoric Eurasian origins using GEDmatch calculators just before this feature was suddenly given to us. It is a shame that the "Yamnaya" percentage in actual fact seems to consist only of the CHG component, because that just messes with the entire presentation.

However, it's given me another tool to play with, and in my case, I value my ancient genetic genealogy, equally as much as I do recent documentary genealogy. It's just an absolute fascination with our roots - our fore-bearers, and the past. I crave pretty much all things natural world, and all things heritage - archaeology, social history, local history, evolutionary anthropology, etc.

The past few evenings it has inspired me to write my own version of My Ancient Origins. It's equally rubbish, but still based on some probable evidences, as we have them right now:

https://paulbrooker.posthaven.com/my-ancient-eurasian-origins-18-000-to-4-000-years-ago-my-early-family-history

I hope that I'm not violating a rule for plugging a blog, because I really don't give a monkeys about hits etc. If I am, please delete - but it's allowed me to get off my novice mind all what I'm presently learning about my late prehistoric genetic genealogy - or how I feebly interpret it so far.

ADW_1981
11-15-2016, 08:53 PM
We have the samples from Yamnaya. They were EHG + CHG, not just CHG. The Ancient Origins results of Family Tree DNA are clearly misleading.

I think there is even a small slice of WHG in Yamnaya too.

kikkk
11-15-2016, 09:36 PM
We have the samples from Yamnaya. They were EHG + CHG, not just CHG. The Ancient Origins results of Family Tree DNA are clearly misleading.

According to their map the MAI's originate from Georgia; maybe they are alluding to some ancient cultures from that region, that are accepted as being possibly precursor of Yamnaya such as Majkop culture and perhaps they have analyzed ancient samples pertaining to that culture (and its precursor culture of Leyla-Tepe) and they came out as bare CHG without EHG.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-15-2016, 09:47 PM
It is badly flawed, but it did make me pause for thought - although I was investigating my prehistoric Eurasian origins using GEDmatch calculators just before this feature was suddenly given to us. It is a shame that the "Yamnaya" percentage in actual fact seems to consist only of the CHG component, because that just messes with the entire presentation.

However, it's given me another tool to play with, and in my case, I value my ancient genetic genealogy, equally as much as I do recent documentary genealogy. It's just an absolute fascination with our roots - our fore-bearers, and the past. I crave pretty much all things natural world, and all things heritage - archaeology, social history, local history, evolutionary anthropology, etc.

The past few evenings it has inspired me to write my own version of My Ancient Origins. It's equally rubbish, but still based on some probable evidences, as we have them right now:

https://paulbrooker.posthaven.com/my-ancient-eurasian-origins-18-000-to-4-000-years-ago-my-early-family-history

I hope that I'm not violating a rule for plugging a blog, because I really don't give a monkeys about hits etc. If I am, please delete - but it's allowed me to get off my novice mind all what I'm presently learning about my late prehistoric genetic genealogy - or how I feebly interpret it so far.

I think it's good that we speculate on these things, even if we get it wrong, that's how we learn and develop new theories.
I have wondered whether some of these ancient Steppe DNA influences may have been reinforced in Europe at a later date by the Huns? They seem to have had close associations with some of the Germanic tribes from what I understand. John

12589

ADW_1981
11-15-2016, 11:29 PM
According to their map the MAI's originate from Georgia; maybe they are alluding to some ancient cultures from that region, that are accepted as being possibly precursor of Yamnaya such as Majkop culture and perhaps they have analyzed ancient samples pertaining to that culture (and its precursor culture of Leyla-Tepe) and they came out as bare CHG without EHG.

I think their direction of European Hunter Gatherers as coming out of Egypt area is also false. Logic still dictates that WHG came out of northern Eurasia, but was an early wave westwards and doesn't have the ANE type of component in its ancestry.

bobp
11-16-2016, 01:09 AM
Hunter-Gatherer: 49%
Farmer: 39%
Metal Age Invader: 12%
Non European: 0%

MDLP K13 Ultimate Oracle
ENF: 40.93
WHG-UHG: 29.34
ANE: 22.52
Paleo-African: 0.9
Subsahrian: 0.17

Recent Ancestry:
British Isles: 50%
Germany: 25%
Poland: 12.5%
Bohemia: 12.5%

Deftextra
11-16-2016, 02:51 AM
44% None European (SSA + East Eurasian related stuff?)
33% Farmer
22% Metal age Invader

wombatofthenorth
11-16-2016, 05:07 AM
If Europeans are getting <20% "Metal Age" and Kurds over 40% it could be something other than Yamnaya. Would be interesting to see a Georgian result.

I don't know, not necessarily surprising at all. I actually expected no different. I believe Metal Age invasion was perhaps was mostly a male, Y-DNA and even more simply a language replacement thing and didn't have as extreme of an autosomal replacement across Europe as it did for language. One thing is to look at say Hungary, it's totally non-Indo-European speaking and yet the autosomal DNA is almost the same as all the surrounding Slavic speaking countries. In Hungary a few leaders came in as Finno-Ugric Speakers and managed to change the language spoken in the whole country region without changing the overall DNA much.

wombatofthenorth
11-16-2016, 05:16 AM
Here's mine then my moms. I'm not sure how these are even accurate at all, my mom's 30% middle eastern.

Nothing wrong, where did the farmers come from? The Middle East, so Middle Eastern people should be well covered by this. It's people in Africa, far Asia and so on where they would get lots of non-European (of course it seems the name non-European is a bit misleading).

wombatofthenorth
11-16-2016, 05:16 AM
Directly related to Yamnaya R1b-Z2103 by way of branch R1b-7822>9219. I only get 15% metal invader.
Better to stick with Anthrogenica expert in house tools by, Eurogenes, MLDP,Kurd, Tolan, etc..

Y line is just a tiny fraction of your autosomal history.

wombatofthenorth
11-16-2016, 05:22 AM
23% MAI
58% Farmer
19% HG
0% Non-European ... Wow, the Lebanese half of my family is going to be surprised this Thanksgiving!

They just labelled it weirdly, it makes total sense people from Lebanon are fully covered by this test. Farmers are Fertile Crescent and region people.

wombatofthenorth
11-16-2016, 05:29 AM
thanks for sharing
it looks like hunter gatherer is the true ancient european genes/ allells
and russians and northen european score it big time :D
regards
Adam

yes and Baltic people big big time as here are Latvian results:

56% Hunter-Gatherer
29% Farmer
15% Metal Age Invader
----
55% Hunter-Gatherer
32% Farmer
13% Metal Age Invader
-------
58% Hunter-Gatherer
29% Farmer
14% Metal Age Invader
----------
61% Hunter-Gatherer
28% Farmer
12% Metal age Invader
-----
57% Hunter-Gatherer
29% Farmer
14% Metal Age Invader

wombatofthenorth
11-16-2016, 05:30 AM
Looks to me that Metal Age Invader is the Levant element, Farmer contains the East European, and Anatolian element. Hunter-Gatherer contains the Northern European element, and non-European is Africa and parts of Eastern Asia.

I don't think so.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-16-2016, 05:31 AM
They just labelled it weirdly, it makes total sense people from Lebanon are fully covered by this test. Farmers are Fertile Crescent and region people.

and the further South you go, the higher the percentage it looks like. John

wombatofthenorth
11-16-2016, 05:33 AM
It has made me rethink my ancient admixture. It does correlate with a number of tests now that suggest:


I have DNA patterns that keeps suggesting or being confused for Southern European
I have levels of Early Neolithic Farmer that are unusually high for a NW European
I have levels of ANE and now "MAI" that are on the low side for a NW European


Now my paper ancestry over the past 300 years has been incredibly local to East Anglia and SE England. It has been proposed that my "Southern Euro" may have arrived here during French migration events for example, the Norman. I am open to this possibility, although I really cant accept recent immigration or Huguenot as being very likely for my family. Family history, records, likenesses - combined with their fairly isolated rural locations just don't make recent NPEs with "Southern Europeans" likely, and most Huguenot and other protestant refugees were skilled and urban - often falling into the bourgeoisie.

I just wish there were more testers from SE England, Netherlands, Denmark, and France, that have recorded ancestries similar to mine - local and rural, with which to compare with. I can't be the only NW European with these patterns. I still really do believe that my admixture is fairly representative of a local population, rather than being the result of recent admixture in recent centuries. Other than Norman and Medieval French admixture, what else can explain these Southern and ENF patterns for an East Anglian?

I'm pleased that FT-DNA have added this feature, even with it's warts, and confusions between CHG and Yamna, etc. It has helped me if not explain, then to ask new questions about my ancient population admixture. I don't think that SE English would be expected to have high ENF, or EEF, and low ANE and "MAI" / Yamna? Our close cousins, the Irish and Scottish, seem to be such a better known quantity. But what is making me different, isn't always what I expect. Or am I making too much of this?

MAI 9%
HG 44%
Farmer 47%
Non Euro 0%

Your results do seem a bit odd.
But I guess not all that many Southeastern English have posted here. If it is typical then it would show they had a lot more continental input. On 23 one guy got rather low B & I and relatively high F & G and is said to be from S.E. England.

wombatofthenorth
11-16-2016, 05:39 AM
My result. High metal age, quite low farmer for a Brit. I'm mostly southern English and Irish, with a little bit of Scottish and Welsh.

https://i.imgsafe.org/8bdaed9eac.png

I think Scottish and especially Irish probably have a bit more of the old H-G of that region and Southeast English the least.

wombatofthenorth
11-16-2016, 05:52 AM
I wonder what my background has that makes my HG results are a few ticks higher than most of the Northern Europeans here (UK types, Evon, Oleg, and Tomenable...so that covers Ireland to Russia). I understand that we're talking minuscule sample sizes, but I'm curious. I'm not sure if Wombat has an FTDNA account, but I'd like to see his numbers for this one.

See my post above, Latvians getting so far 55%-61% H-G, higher than I've seen anyone else in the threads so far. And most get 28-29% Farmer.
Maybe you have a touch Baltic if you have excess H-G for your area?

Mike_G
11-16-2016, 01:23 PM
See my post above, Latvians getting so far 55%-61% H-G, higher than I've seen anyone else in the threads so far. And most get 28-29% Farmer.
Maybe you have a touch Baltic if you have excess H-G for your area?

Believe so. 51% HG / 36% Farmer. I'm fairly convinced that my my reported 1/2 Polish background is probably more Lithuanian than Polish after looking at my FTDNA, 23andme, and Gedmatch information. That's why I was curious about seeing a Latvian's results for this one. Thanks Wombat.

kingjohn
11-16-2016, 02:23 PM
yes and Baltic people big big time as here are Latvian results:

56% Hunter-Gatherer
29% Farmer
15% Metal Age Invader
----
55% Hunter-Gatherer
32% Farmer
13% Metal Age Invader
-------
58% Hunter-Gatherer
29% Farmer
14% Metal Age Invader
----------
61% Hunter-Gatherer
28% Farmer
12% Metal age Invader
-----
57% Hunter-Gatherer
29% Farmer
14% Metal Age Invader



wowwwww...... :D
some latvians have very close % of hunter gatherer as i have farmer ancestery 64% huge huge
so the hunter genes srvived the best in the baltic area {latvia, lithaunia, estonia }
regards
adam

kingjohn
11-16-2016, 03:20 PM
full lebanese results
12591
regards
Adam

Tjada
11-16-2016, 04:34 PM
......

Tjada
11-16-2016, 04:35 PM
Hi all,

I have a question about my results.

13% Metal Age Invader
3% Farmer
83% Non European.

Since I'm from East Indonesia, I thought I would have had more Non European, like some other Southeast Asians.
The 13% Metal Age Invader is a bit high.
Am I missing something about my ancestry, lol?

Greetings from Amsterdam

Tsakhur
11-16-2016, 05:18 PM
Hi all,

I have a question about my results.

13% Metal Age Invader
3% Farmer
83% Non European.

Since I'm from East Indonesia, I thought I would have had more Non European, like some other Southeast Asians.
The 13% Metal Age Invader is a bit high.
Am I missing something about my ancestry, lol?

Greetings from Amsterdam

That is interesting that you have Metal Age Invader and Farmer when they are actually West Eurasian components. Maybe these two components represent "South Asian/South Asian-like" affinity in Southeast Asians?

I think in your case it might be something else than actual West Eurasian, like Ancestral South Indian that peaks in Paniya but best represented for now by Andamanese like Onge, because the former have too much West Eurasian affinity. Because I think in other calculators, if I saw your results before, you don't have any West Eurasian admix.

But for other Southeast Asians, these Metal Age Invader and Farmer might be genuine if they have actual South Asian especially South Indian admix, as South Indians are mixture between Iran Neolithic (probably Metal Age Invader and some farmer in this case)+Ancestral South Indian. So if Southeast Asians have actual South Indian ancestry, I think they are going to receive indirect West Eurasian/West-Eurasian-like gene flow from South Indians, who are an intermediate population than directly from West Eurasians which in the form of Metal Age Invader and some farmer as shown in this calculator.

Tsakhur
11-16-2016, 05:37 PM
Dear Tjada,

Do you often have South Asian showing up in your results? It might be just Ancestral South Indian or actual "South Asian", but most likely the former for your case. I think using South Asian component that usually show in most SE Asians in most calculators confused things up because I feel it is a confusing component. "South Asian" because it can be either Ancestral South Indian or genuine South Indian which likely have hidden "West Eurasian"/West Eurasian-like affinity. I hope in the future they break the South Asian component down and use some other components like ASI (Ancestral South Indian) and West Eurasian ones instead.

Calamus
11-16-2016, 07:07 PM
Here are my family members all in one..

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp207/vulcanphoto/all.png

I suspect eastern Norwegians and Swedes will get less Farmer and more HG..

Here are my results for comparison:
50% Hunter-Gatherer
37% Farmer
12% Metal Age Invader
0% Non European
99% Total

My German ancestry probably reduces my HG score and increases my F score a little when comparing to other Eastern Norwegians.

Dewsloth
11-16-2016, 07:53 PM
23% MAI
58% Farmer
19% HG
0% Non-European ... Wow, the Lebanese half of my family is going to be surprised this Thanksgiving!

Okay, here's Dad (aka the non-Lebanese half):

14% MAI
48% Farmer
38% Hunter Gatherer
0% non-European

Tjada
11-16-2016, 09:51 PM
That is interesting that you have Metal Age Invader and Farmer when they are actually West Eurasian components. Maybe these two components represent "South Asian/South Asian-like" affinity in Southeast Asians?

I think in your case it might be something else than actual West Eurasian, like Ancestral South Indian that peaks in Paniya but best represented for now by Andamanese like Onge, because the former have too much West Eurasian affinity. Because I think in other calculators, if I saw your results before, you don't have any West Eurasian admix.

But for other Southeast Asians, these Metal Age Invader and Farmer might be genuine if they have actual South Asian especially South Indian admix, as South Indians are mixture between Iran Neolithic (probably Metal Age Invader and some farmer in this case)+Ancestral South Indian. So if Southeast Asians have actual South Indian ancestry, I think they are going to receive indirect West Eurasian/West-Eurasian-like gene flow from South Indians, who are an intermediate population than directly from West Eurasians which in the form of Metal Age Invader and some farmer as shown in this calculator.

Thanks for your explanation Khuur! I think it makes realy sense what you are saying.
But we do have some oral history (from my maternal side) that her ancestors came from a place called Surat, in Gujarat, India. It was when King Chandragupta II ruled c. 380 – c. 415 CE. Because of war they left in search for a better place to live. So they have ended up in the Savu Islands... Not sure if I can ever trace it back by DNA when it's that long ago....

dp
11-16-2016, 10:31 PM
wowwwww...... :D
some latvians have very close % of hunter gatherer as i have farmer ancestery 64% huge huge
so the hunter genes srvived the best in the baltic area {latvia, lithaunia, estonia }
regards
adam

Your HG observation reminded me of the wave model (like in AJ), eg. Y-DNA (R1b-M222) and mtDNA (N? The one in northern most Asia). The hunters reached a geographical boundary that they couldn't cross.
dp :-)

Dr_McNinja
11-17-2016, 12:15 AM
My sister:

4% Hunter Gatherer (WHG?)
19% Farmer (EEF?)
61% Metal Age Invader (Yamnaya?)
16% Non-European

Dr_McNinja
11-17-2016, 12:19 AM
Me:

4% Hunter Gatherer
21% Farmer
59% Metal Age Invader
17% Non European

Dr_McNinja
11-17-2016, 12:21 AM
HRP0370 Afghan Pashtun:

9% Hunter Gatherer
30% Farmer
53% Metal Age Invader
9% Non European

jortita
11-17-2016, 12:47 AM
Hi all,

I have a question about my results.

13% Metal Age Invader
3% Farmer
83% Non European.

Since I'm from East Indonesia, I thought I would have had more Non European, like some other Southeast Asians.
The 13% Metal Age Invader is a bit high.
Am I missing something about my ancestry, lol?

Greetings from Amsterdam

Tjada, I would agree with you and I have a feeling they have erroneously marked some East Eurasian/South Eurasian markers as European as my numbers dont add up.

I am shown as 37% non-European, when my origins percentages are:
South Asia 42%
Central Asia 26%
Southeast Asia 21%
Finland and Northern Siberia 5%
Northeast Asia 4%
North Africa 2%

If you add, SE Asia + NE Asia + North Africa then it adds upto 27% which means they have only taken possibly 10% from the 42% South Asian as being non European, which is quite different from my results elsewhere as my East Eurasian for FTDNA data ranges from 43-49% while for Ancestry DNA data ranges from 46-51%

shazou
11-17-2016, 07:33 AM
Hi all,

I have a question about my results.

13% Metal Age Invader
3% Farmer
83% Non European.

Since I'm from East Indonesia, I thought I would have had more Non European, like some other Southeast Asians.
The 13% Metal Age Invader is a bit high.
Am I missing something about my ancestry, lol?

Greetings from Amsterdam
The only thing I can really think of is if there was some type of ancient South-Asian connection. Could be blended into the SE-Asian; Or maybe there might be some ancient South-Asian DNA influence blended into the Papuan as well, who knows. I know that Indonesia has some South Asian influence genetically..I'm not really sure about Eastern-Indonesia though but perhaps South Asian type of DNA might have made its way over there as well. Maybe there was some type of mixing event between SE-Asians+Papuans+South-Asians in those times. In general I do know that the Indonesia area has more South Asian influence than Philippines overall based on the 23andme results I've seen so far. It seems weird though if I remember correctly that you posted some of your gedmatch and DNA.Land results and you didn't really score much South-Asian/Indian admixture right?-I think I even got more South-Asian than you on those results.

In my case I think the 2% Farmer I scored is connected with the Iberian I got on 23andme, while the 5% Metal-age-invader is mostly from historical South-Asian influence that was spread throughout SE-Asia in historical times - minus the ASI.-The latter cause we probably share commonalities.

Tjada
11-17-2016, 08:49 AM
The only thing I can really think of is if there was some type of ancient South-Asian connection. Could be blended into the SE-Asian; Or maybe there might be some ancient South-Asian DNA influence blended into the Papuan as well, who knows. I know that Indonesia has some South Asian influence genetically..I'm not really sure about Eastern-Indonesia though but perhaps South Asian type of DNA might have made its way over there as well. Maybe there was some type of mixing event between SE-Asians+Papuans+South-Asians in those times. In general I do know that the Indonesia area has more South Asian influence than Philippines overall based on the 23andme results I've seen so far. It seems weird though if I remember correctly that you posted some of your gedmatch and DNA.Land results and you didn't really score much South-Asian/Indian admixture right?-I think I even got more South-Asian than you on those results.

In my case I think the 2% Farmer I scored is connected with the Iberian I got on 23andme, while the 5% Metal-age-invader is mostly from historical South-Asian influence that was spread throughout SE-Asia in historical times - minus the ASI.-The latter cause we probably share commonalities.

Thanks Shazou! That's right. At most gedmatch-calculators I have between 3 & 5% South Asian. At 23andme I have only 0.1% (standard). At DNA.LAND after the update I have 1.3% Gujarati... Thanks again for your thoughts!

shazou
11-17-2016, 09:20 AM
Thanks Shazou! That's right. At most gedmatch-calculators I have between 3 & 5% South Asian. At 23andme I have only 0.1% (standard). At DNA.LAND after the update I have 1.3% Gujarati... Thanks again for your thoughts!
Oh you get between 3-5% on gedmatch. I usually get around 5-7%, almost similar to yours- mine only slightly higher. I also get 4.3% Dravidian on DNA.Land.

I think sometimes the Papuan can fall into the South Asian category on certain gedmatch calculators. Take this Polynesian for example (there's no Oceanian category on this particular calculator thus around a little over half of his Papuan went into the South Asian category):
# Population Percent
1 East_Asian 74.32
2 South_Asian 14.37
3 Atlantic_Baltic 4.93
4 Siberian 3.52
5 African 1.72
6 Southern 1.14

...

Same person on a different calculator (which does have an Oceanian category):
# Population Percent
1 East_Asian 66.44
2 Australasian 23.71
3 Amerindian 2.98
4 Atlantic_Baltic 2.71
5 South_Asian 2.11
6 Southern 0.93
7 Siberian 0.77
8 African 0.35

Finn
11-17-2016, 09:53 AM
My results from the Northern Netherlands:

50% Hunter-Gatherer
39% Farmer
11% Metal age invader

Looks like Baltic or Nordic results.....Northern Netherlands pocket area for HG? Or?

Kurd
11-17-2016, 10:24 AM
Kurd C3

Their writeup on Metal Age Invaders suggest that those are defined by the Yamnaya, who according to them did not directly interact with Europeans, but rather E Europeans interacted with a Yamnaya-WHG hybridized population.

So why are Kurds and other W Asians scoring higher Yamnaya than Europeans? I am not sure what method they are using for their calculations, but clearly they are using WHG, LBK, and I am guessing EEFs such as Stuttgart in their comparisons. With this being the case Europeans are defaulting primarily to EEFs and WHGs instead of Yamnaya, whereas W Asians default primarily to Yamnaya-EEF/ENF, suggesting W Asians are more Yamnaya admixed than Europeans. The result for W Asians is not surprising considering the base populations they use for the comparisons, considering caucausus hunters are not one of the base populations.

Europeans are defaulting primarily to farmers and WHG in lieu of Yamnaya. From memory I recall that using dstats of the form D(NE European, Kurd, Yamnaya, outgroup), NE Europeans showed greater shared drift with Yamnaya than Kurds. What is not clear is whether that greater shared drift was due to greater Yamnaya input for NE Europeans than Kurds, or whether that was due to greater Basal Eurasian input for Kurds than NE Europeans, something dstats of this type would be sensitive to.

Dstats of the form D( WHG, Yamnaya, NE European, out) could confirm why Europeans primarily default to WHG in lieu of Yamnaya.

https://i.imgur.com/4QVWPlL.jpg

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-17-2016, 10:47 AM
My results from the Northern Netherlands:

50% Hunter-Gatherer
39% Farmer
11% Metal age invader

Looks like Baltic or Nordic results.....Northern Netherlands pocket area for HG? Or?

It seems generally the more "Northern" your influences the higher Hunter Gatherer you get. There was a lot of early ancestry came out of Scandinavia and around the Baltic it seems. John

Amerijoe
11-17-2016, 01:18 PM
It seems generally the more "Northern" your influences the higher Hunter Gatherer you get. There was a lot of early ancestry came out of Scandinavia and around the Baltic it seems. John

John, I don't understand why some members knock ancient origins. As you have noticed, there is a pattern to this nonsense. Reversing your assumption, Finn 50-39-11 vs. Me 47-42-11, I should end up south. Well, I'm a native Scot and can trace mt side back at least 200 years. I assume this pattern holds true heading towards Wales. :) Joe

Nas
11-17-2016, 03:29 PM
47% Hunter-Gatherer

41% Farmer

12% Metal Age Invader

0% Non-European

My maternal line is West-Flemish
My paternal line is Irish/Scottish

Nas:)

Ricimer
11-17-2016, 05:04 PM
Half Eastern Andalucia & Half Western Spain

7% Metal Age Invader

60% Farmer

32% Hunter-Gatherer

0% Non-European

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-17-2016, 05:23 PM
John, I don't understand why some members knock ancient origins. As you have noticed, there is a pattern to this nonsense. Reversing your assumption, Finn 50-39-11 vs. Me 47-42-11, I should end up south. Well, I'm a native Scot and can trace mt side back at least 200 years. I assume this pattern holds true heading towards Wales. :) Joe

Perhaps I look at things simplistically Joe because my level of knowledge doesn't allow me to do anything else. :)
It seems fairly logical to me though that people in Northern Latitudes or at altitude will have relied more on hunter-gathering for longer. The soil and the climate being less suited to intensive agriculture. Farmers would also have changed the whole nature of the landscape and what could live in it further South I guess and created a higher population density. You also would have had seasonal migration of the herds, specific to particular landscapes and conditions.
Even today in Northern Latitudes you have indigenous people like the Sami who still follow the herd, but over time perhaps they have moved more towards herding than hunting? Then you have the indigenous people of the North American continent up to quite recent times.
Maybe the UK is a bit unique because although it is at a Northern Latitude, the Gulf Stream gives it a relatively mild climate compared with other places at a similar latitude, although the higher parts of Scotland and Wales wouldn't be quite as hospitable. :) John

Amerijoe
11-17-2016, 07:17 PM
John, your simplistic approach generates a great amount of intuitive reasoning. You shouldn't sell yourself short. Your posts are not riddled with unintelligible scientific poo pah, but strong intellectual opinions. You are right-on about climate effecting the ancient origins mixtures. One can imagine the mixing and remixing as the climate gyrated from one extreme to another on it's way to the present temperant environment.B) Joe

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-17-2016, 07:23 PM
John, your simplistic approach generates a great amount of intuitive reasoning. You shouldn't sell yourself short. Your posts are not riddled with unintelligible scientific poo pah, but strong intellectual opinions. You are right-on about climate effecting the ancient origins mixtures. One can imagine the mixing and remixing as the climate gyrated from one extreme to another on it's way to the present temperant environment.B) Joe

Thank you Joe, very kind of you. John

kingjohn
11-17-2016, 08:21 PM
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/family-tree-dna-offers-first-commercially-available-dna-test-to-reveal-ancient-european-origins-300363315.html
regards
adam

Mal
11-17-2016, 09:17 PM
My ethnicity: Saudi

http://i.imgur.com/KNxHVvk.png

Smilelover
11-17-2016, 11:45 PM
Here are my results for comparison:

48% Farmer
23% Metal Age Invader
0% Hunter-Gatherer
29% Non European

kevinduffy
11-18-2016, 12:42 AM
Me:

Hunter-Gatherer - 47%

Farmer - 42%

Metal Age Invader - 11%

wombatofthenorth
11-18-2016, 01:09 AM
It seems generally the more "Northern" your influences the higher Hunter Gatherer you get. There was a lot of early ancestry came out of Scandinavia and around the Baltic it seems. John

Not too surprising. Farmer genes got there by invading farmers and the farther north you go the farther are away from where they came from. Finland and the Baltics were probably the most isolated regions both way back on and, to some extent, in medium far back and somewhat more recent times so they get the least input when the farmers spread (although even here they still got a decent chunk) and less additional from later on as well. And Ireland was more isolated than mainland England over the years so later on it got less recent continental mix and so they retain a bit more of the old H-G signals from that region that it seems the tests key on a bit for their B & I components.

wombatofthenorth
11-18-2016, 01:11 AM
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/family-tree-dna-offers-first-commercially-available-dna-test-to-reveal-ancient-european-origins-300363315.html
regards
adam

Not so sure I'd call it a first in that Geno 2.0 (the pre-NG) sort of did this.

vettor
11-18-2016, 04:02 AM
Not too surprising. Farmer genes got there by invading farmers and the farther north you go the farther are away from where they came from. Finland and the Baltics were probably the most isolated regions both way back on and, to some extent, in medium far back and somewhat more recent times so they get the least input when the farmers spread (although even here they still got a decent chunk) and less additional from later on as well. And Ireland was more isolated than mainland England over the years so later on it got less recent continental mix and so they retain a bit more of the old H-G signals from that region that it seems the tests key on a bit for their B & I components.

I agree with .................farmers killing farmers for their farms

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-18-2016, 06:14 AM
Not too surprising. Farmer genes got there by invading farmers and the farther north you go the farther are away from where they came from. Finland and the Baltics were probably the most isolated regions both way back on and, to some extent, in medium far back and somewhat more recent times so they get the least input when the farmers spread (although even here they still got a decent chunk) and less additional from later on as well. And Ireland was more isolated than mainland England over the years so later on it got less recent continental mix and so they retain a bit more of the old H-G signals from that region that it seems the tests key on a bit for their B & I components.

I find it strange to think I may share DNA with these two (archaic matches):-
"The farmer is a woman who lived near Stuttgart in Germany 7000 years ago. She was laid to rest in a burial ground with more than 200 individuals and pottery belonging to the Beaker culture, the first farmers in Europe.

In addition they found an 8000-year-old hunter-gatherer that lived just 200 km away in the Loschbour rock shelter in Luxembourg ....."

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiJ7JfA0LHQAhViKcAKHWWIBg4QFggbMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsciencenordic.com%2Fdna-study-uncovers-ancient-ancestor-europeans&usg=AFQjCNFfMLU2GsciyN5RMfvq7Oi-Vw8HOQ&sig2=DoJu8gkzNKFX8uuvSHjhcQ

and their people may have been at war with each other, sort of makes it "personal" In a straight fight, I would have put my money on the hunter gatherer but obviously the farmers were more succesful in the long-run. :) John

Telfermagne
11-18-2016, 12:39 PM
I scored
12% Metal Age invader
44% farmer
44% hunter gatherer

I kind of want to see a "white paper".

Wing Genealogist
11-18-2016, 02:17 PM
.... I kind of want to see a "white paper".

FTDNA has stated they will not be releasing a "white paper" on their work at the present time as it would allow their competition to easily develop similar results.

Unfortunately, this does make business sense.

Wing Genealogist
11-18-2016, 02:19 PM
FTDNA had Mike Hammer (from the University of Arizona) do a presentation on ancient DNA testing in Europe to introduce this Ancient Origins. I do believe FTDNA has used these ancient DNA results to create their Ancient Origins.

FTDNA has stated they do plan on expanding their Ancient Origins to include results from other areas around the Globe (such as the Middle East and Asia).

Telfermagne
11-18-2016, 02:24 PM
FTDNA has stated they will not be releasing a "white paper" on their work at the present time as it would allow their competition to easily develop similar results.

Unfortunately, this does make business sense.

Should have figured that'd be the case haha. Oh well.

Massam
11-18-2016, 02:24 PM
my wife below
Hunter-Gather-35%
Farmer-55%
Metal Age Invader-10%
non-European-0%

I'm sorry Vettor, you already mentioned it of course but I don't remember where your wife comes from. Our results are pretty close:
12602
Besides my serbian roots, I'm more southern shifted than most of my countrymen because of a grand-parent from Tolosa (cittą della Francia, a circa 100 km di distanza dai Pirenei spagnoli :D) That's probably the reason why.
To compare here are my Myorigins, Eurogenes k13 and MDLP k23b scores:
126031260412605

dnoone
11-18-2016, 02:45 PM
12607

Irish/Alleged Italian

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-18-2016, 06:39 PM
It would be very interested to see everyone's results plotted geographically, based on their known "old"ancestral origins, although it might be murky for people who have very widespread origins.
(No I'm not volunteering) :) John

kingjohn
11-19-2016, 12:36 AM
http://www.witchcraftsartisanalchemy.com/ancestral-old-european-cave-artists/
nice story cave art :)
regards
Adam

kingjohn
11-19-2016, 04:49 PM
north degastan :
12617
regards
adam