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Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-14-2016, 08:17 AM
Hi all, I am a Pakistani from Punjab. My WeGene results seem to suggest that I am 8.16% Iranian. However, neither my 23andMe, nor my AncestryDNA or FtDNA seem to detect this. Only WeGene shows me as 8.16% Iranian. There is a family tree which shows that my great-great grandfather was from Larestan in southern Iran. However, only GedMatch and WeGene detect my Iranian ancestry, not 23andMe, nor AncestryDna, or even FtDNA. Here is my WeGene result.

12576

What do you think?

Kaido
11-14-2016, 02:10 PM
It's definitely possible, although I'm not sure which calculator would be best for showing potential Iranian ancestry, maybe some of the other members could help.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-15-2016, 06:10 AM
Thanks for getting back. Do you have Iranian ancestry? Are you from Afghanistan? Your Y Haplogroup seems to suggest a Turkic origin?

khanabadoshi
11-16-2016, 07:07 AM
Seems L1a1 is most common in South Asia, particularly Western India and Southern Pakistan; but it is also found in Southern Iran -- so it's possible.


Y-DNA haplogroup L is found at low frequencies in the Middle East and Europe as paragroup L-M317 (L1b*, originally L2*), subgroup L-M349 (L1b1, originally L2a) and subgroup L-L595 (L2), and at significant frequencies in South Asia as subgroups L-M27 (L1a1, formerly L1a and originally L1) and L-M357 (L1a2, formerly L1c and originally L3).

(http://isogg.org/tree/2015/ISOGG_HapgrpL15.html)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20#L1a1_.28M27.29)


There is a blog on this, I don't know how accurate it is, but it's interesting:

Pakistan and India - Present Day Home of L1a1 and L1a2L1a splits again into two sub clades. The split occurred around 17,400 years ago. L1a1, as defined by SNP M27 (on older nomenclature as still used by 23andMe, this was formerly L1*) is mainly found in India, particularly South West India, and in Sri Lanka, where it has been projected onto 15% of men. It is however, also found outside of India, in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan, and Iran. This is perhaps the most populous modern day L sub clade, found in 14.5% of Indian males.
L1a and L1a1 (L-M27) at Birds Eye Cave, Armenia 6161 years before present.Ancient Y DNA from the Copper Age has recently emerged from this location, and included L1a, and L1a1. This might suggest, that although very successful today in India and Pakistan, that it has a Western Asian origin.
L1a2 as defined by SNP M357 (on older nomenclature as still used by 23andMe, this was formerly L3*). This sub clade is mainly found in Pakistan, but also Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, The Chechen Republic, Tajikistan, India, and Afghanistan.
So, the L1a sub clades - spreading down into Southern Asia, and accounting for potentially millions of Y Men there. Far more than any other branches of Y Haplogroup L. However, Southern Asia is unlikely to be the origin of L. That origin is more likely, as stated earlier, to be the place with the most diversity in branches. That points more towards again towards Western Asia. It's just that ancient carriers of L, appear to have been particularly successful in Southern Asia, and to have fathered more sons there.

(http://paulbrooker.posthaven.com/y-haplogroup-l-not-the-r1b-sub-clade-or-mtdna-resource-page)

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-16-2016, 11:34 PM
Seems L1a1 is most common in South Asia, particularly Western India and Southern Pakistan; but it is also found in Southern Iran -- so it's possible.


Y-DNA haplogroup L is found at low frequencies in the Middle East and Europe as paragroup L-M317 (L1b*, originally L2*), subgroup L-M349 (L1b1, originally L2a) and subgroup L-L595 (L2), and at significant frequencies in South Asia as subgroups L-M27 (L1a1, formerly L1a and originally L1) and L-M357 (L1a2, formerly L1c and originally L3).

(http://isogg.org/tree/2015/ISOGG_HapgrpL15.html)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20#L1a1_.28M27.29)


There is a blog on this, I don't know how accurate it is, but it's interesting:

Pakistan and India - Present Day Home of L1a1 and L1a2L1a splits again into two sub clades. The split occurred around 17,400 years ago. L1a1, as defined by SNP M27 (on older nomenclature as still used by 23andMe, this was formerly L1*) is mainly found in India, particularly South West India, and in Sri Lanka, where it has been projected onto 15% of men. It is however, also found outside of India, in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan, and Iran. This is perhaps the most populous modern day L sub clade, found in 14.5% of Indian males.
L1a and L1a1 (L-M27) at Birds Eye Cave, Armenia 6161 years before present.Ancient Y DNA from the Copper Age has recently emerged from this location, and included L1a, and L1a1. This might suggest, that although very successful today in India and Pakistan, that it has a Western Asian origin.
L1a2 as defined by SNP M357 (on older nomenclature as still used by 23andMe, this was formerly L3*). This sub clade is mainly found in Pakistan, but also Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, The Chechen Republic, Tajikistan, India, and Afghanistan.
So, the L1a sub clades - spreading down into Southern Asia, and accounting for potentially millions of Y Men there. Far more than any other branches of Y Haplogroup L. However, Southern Asia is unlikely to be the origin of L. That origin is more likely, as stated earlier, to be the place with the most diversity in branches. That points more towards again towards Western Asia. It's just that ancient carriers of L, appear to have been particularly successful in Southern Asia, and to have fathered more sons there.

(http://paulbrooker.posthaven.com/y-haplogroup-l-not-the-r1b-sub-clade-or-mtdna-resource-page)







Thanks for getting back to me Khanabadoshi. My Iranian ancestry is through my father's mother's line, so I don't think that it would have an impact on my Paternal Haplogroup. I am actually quite surprised that my Haplogroup is L1a1, since I am from a high caste. My family is from Gujrat, Pakistan. My father is a Rajput Janjua and my mother is a Gujjar. Also, GedMatch seems to confirm my high caste ancestry as I have only 13.89% ASI ancestry (Although it fluctuates between the calculators. In fact, I have less ASI/South Asian ancestry on the calculators than most Sindhis, Punjabis, and a few Pathans. Regardless, I don't think that my Haplogroup is from a recent South Indian ancestor. Even on Dna.land my Dravidian ancestry was only 12%. Perhaps it could have come from the Indus Valley Civilization, although I am not sure about this. If you don't mind me asking, what were your 23andMe results? I do not look Dravidian in any way, nor do any of my relatives resemble Tamils. I don't understand how L1a1 ended up in Northern Pakistan, it's a mystery to me. Add in to that I am from a family of Lambardars in North Pakistan, my Haplogroup makes no sense.

khanabadoshi
11-17-2016, 06:25 AM
Thanks for getting back to me Khanabadoshi. My Iranian ancestry is through my father's mother's line, so I don't think that it would have an impact on my Paternal Haplogroup. I am actually quite surprised that my Haplogroup is L1a1, since I am from a high caste. My family is from Gujrat, Pakistan. My father is a Rajput Janjua and my mother is a Gujjar. Also, GedMatch seems to confirm my high caste ancestry as I have only 13.89% ASI ancestry (Although it fluctuates between the calculators. In fact, I have less ASI/South Asian ancestry on the calculators than most Sindhis, Punjabis, and a few Pathans. Regardless, I don't think that my Haplogroup is from a recent South Indian ancestor. Even on Dna.land my Dravidian ancestry was only 12%. Perhaps it could have come from the Indus Valley Civilization, although I am not sure about this. If you don't mind me asking, what were your 23andMe results? I do not look Dravidian in any way, nor do any of my relatives resemble Tamils. I don't understand how L1a1 ended up in Northern Pakistan, it's a mystery to me. Add in to that I am from a family of Lambardars in North Pakistan, my Haplogroup makes no sense.

Oh yes, if it was through your father's mother's line it wouldn't affect your haplogroups. Perhaps you should test your father. The ASI/ASE scores vary a lot from calculator to calculator, so it's best to compare ratios only between results of the same calculator and not cross-calculator. Would you mind posting some Gedrosia, puntDNAL, MDLP calculator results? I have a half Rajput half Kashmiri we could compare you too. In fact, we have a lot of S/SC Asian and Iranian members here, so you have a lot to compare to. You were asking about Kaido, he is Pakistani Pashtun. We have some DIY calculators that aren't on Gedmatch like Iran N K6 and ANE K6 that are newer and might provide a better comparison. If you know how to use DIY calculators give it a try.

Also, L1a1 doesn't seem to be specifically a South Indian marker, it is seen in significant numbers in Southern Pakistan (aka Sindh) and Western India (aka Punjab, Rajasthan, Gujurat). Thus, I don't think it is a very surprising haplogroup if your father's line is Rajput. That being said, users like Parasar are much more well-versed in South Asian haplogroups -- perhaps he will chime in. I'll see what I can dig up about your mtDNA.


My 23andme results:

South Asian 94.9%
Middle Eastern & North African 1.9%
European 1.6%
East Asian & Native American 0.9%
Unassigned 0.7%

My FTDNA results:
https://i.gyazo.com/7eb4c5a77d2d18417fd42571a66fb5d9.png

If you want to see specific gedmatch calculators for comparison, feel free to ask. I'm sure others will post theirs too to give you an idea.

pegasus
11-17-2016, 08:08 AM
Post your Harappa results. That calculator is not good, because well Southern Iranians are have a lot of Iran_N ancestry , that "Iranian" I am guessing is either Anatolian Farmer related or a SW Asian component which peaks in Peninsular Arabs.

Kurd
11-17-2016, 10:49 AM
Wegene used Iranians from Tehran as references for their "Iranian" component. Due to Tehran being cosmopolitan, it is hard to figure out what those individual backgrounds were, but I am guessing that they were closely alligned with Kurds-Baloch, because my Iraqi Kurd sample scored 73% Iranian, and an Iranian Baloch scored 99% Iranian.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-17-2016, 09:32 PM
Oh yes, if it was through your father's mother's line it wouldn't affect your haplogroups. Perhaps you should test your father. The ASI/ASE scores vary a lot from calculator to calculator, so it's best to compare ratios only between results of the same calculator and not cross-calculator. Would you mind posting some Gedrosia, puntDNAL, MDLP calculator results? I have a half Rajput half Kashmiri we could compare you too. In fact, we have a lot of S/SC Asian and Iranian members here, so you have a lot to compare to. You were asking about Kaido, he is Pakistani Pashtun. We have some DIY calculators that aren't on Gedmatch like Iran N K6 and ANE K6 that are newer and might provide a better comparison. If you know how to use DIY calculators give it a try.

Also, L1a1 doesn't seem to be specifically a South Indian marker, it is seen in significant numbers in Southern Pakistan (aka Sindh) and Western India (aka Punjab, Rajasthan, Gujurat). Thus, I don't think it is a very surprising haplogroup if your father's line is Rajput. That being said, users like Parasar are much more well-versed in South Asian haplogroups -- perhaps he will chime in. I'll see what I can dig up about your mtDNA.


My 23andme results:

South Asian 94.9%
Middle Eastern & North African 1.9%
European 1.6%
East Asian & Native American 0.9%
Unassigned 0.7%

My FTDNA results:
https://i.gyazo.com/7eb4c5a77d2d18417fd42571a66fb5d9.png

If you want to see specific gedmatch calculators for comparison, feel free to ask. I'm sure others will post theirs too to give you an idea.

My 23andMe results were as follows:

South Asian: 99.1%
European: 0.5%
East Asian: 0.3%
Middle Eastern: 0.1%

Paternal Haplogroup: L1a1
Maternal Haplogroup: G3b

My FamilytreeDNA Results (Only Family finder and MyOrigins):

68% Central Asian
32% South Asian


I don't know why you are suggesting that my Paternal ancestors came from India. This is not the case. I am from Gujrat, Pakistan and we were in what is now Pakistan for hundreds of years, and none of my ancestors migrated to Pakistan during partition. Also, I am from a high caste Zamindar family, and my great grandfather owned one hundred acres of land in a village in Gujrat. Perhaps there may have been a migration from India before, but not in the past 500 years as I have my family history documented. I will say one thing however, and that is that in our village in Pakistan, there are low caste people who look Tamil and Dravidian in appearance, and they have been there for a very long time. We do not have any sort of relationship with them and do not intermarry. It could be possible that one of my maternal ancestors in my paternal line had an illicit relationship with one of these Dravidians, we call them "Massalis". I would assume that these low caste Dravidians are around 60-70% South Asian and 30-40% Central Asian and carry Paternal haplogroup L1a1. Also, L1a1 is not found in high numbers among the Rajputs. Rajput is a high caste, and also L1a1 is a predominantly Dravidian haplogroup in case you didn't know. This lineage is only found among 0.5% to 2% of northern Pakistanis (low castes mainly), and none of my ancestors are Sindhi. It's not found in high numbers in western India (2-6%), below is the map of its distribution:

http://gentis.ru/img/y/M27.gif

My MtDNA is Central Asian/East Asian in origin and is from the very rare MtDNA haplogroup G.

Yes, I can share my results. All are from my 23andMe results, but I also have AncestryDNA and FtDNA GedMatch kits as well. They are almost the same. Would you mind doing the same?

MDLP K23b
Amerindian: 1.98
Ancestral_Altaic: 6.00
South_Central_Asian: 39.80
Arctic: -
South_Indian: 33.75
Australoid: 0.11
Austronesian: -
Caucasian: -
Archaic_Human: -
East_African: -
East_Siberian: -
European_Early_Farmers:2.36
Khoisan: -
Melano_Polynesian: 0.79
Archaic_African: 0.11
Near_East 3.80
North_African: -
Paleo_Siberian: -
African_Pygmy: -
South_East_Asian: -
Subsaharian: -
Tungus-Altaic: 1.05
European_Hunters_Gatherers: 1.80

MDLP World-22 Admixture Proportions
Pygmy: -
West-Asian: 39.76
North-European-Mesolithic: 3.82
Indo-Tibetan: 1.74
Mesoamerican: 1.48
Arctic-Amerind: -
South-America_Amerind: -
Indian: 33.11
North-Siberean: -
Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic: 0.49
Samoedic: 1.88
Indo-Iranian: 8.50
East-Siberean: -
North-East-European: 5.02
South-African: -
North-Amerind: 0.50
Sub-Saharian: -
East-South-Asian: -
Near_East: 2.01
Melanesian: 1.28
Paleo-Siberian: 0.41
Austronesian: -

MDLP World Admixture Proportions
Caucaus_Parsia: 42.89
Middle_East: 5.47
Indian: 36.98
South_and_West_European: 1.99
Melanesian: 1.01
Sub_Saharian: -
North_and_East_European: 8.70
Arctic_Amerind: 1.31
East_Asian: -
Paleo_African: -
Mesoamerican: 0.55
North_Asian: 1.10

puntDNAL K10 Ancient Admixture Proportions
ASI: 39.35
Sub-Saharan: 0.48
Oceanian: 1.47
Beringian: 2.20
ENF: 9.25
CHG: 38.23
Siberian: 3.70
E_Asian: -
WHG: 5.32
Amerindian: -

HarappaWorld Admixture Proportions
S-Indian: 31.17
Baloch: 43.71
Caucasian: 10.80
NE-Euro: 6.88
SE-Asian: -
Siberian: 0.82
NE-Asian: -
Papuan: 0.66
American: 1.16
Beringian: 0.88
Mediterranean: 0.26
SW-Asian: 3.43
San: -
E-African: -
Pygmy: 0.23
W-African: -

Eurasia K9 ASI Admixture Proportions
SE_Asian: 7.14
Early_Neolithic_Farmers: 4.16
SW_Asian: 8.82
Ancestral_South_Indian: 13.79
Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer: 7.70
WHG: 4.06
Siberian_E_Asian: 2.74
Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer: 51.50
W_African: 0.10

Eurogenes K36 Admixture Proportions
Amerindian0: 0.21
Arabian : -
Armenian: 4.70
Basque: -
Central_African: -
Central_Euro: 0.64
East_African: -
East_Asian: -
East_Balkan: -
East_Central_Asian: -
East_Central_Euro: -
East_Med: -
Eastern_Euro: -
Fennoscandian: -
French: -
Iberian: -
Indo-Chinese: -
Italian: -
Malayan: -
Near_Eastern: -
North_African: -
North_Atlantic: -
North_Caucasian: 9.16
North_Sea: 0.94
Northeast_African: -
Oceanian: -
Omotic: 0.07
Pygmy: -
Siberian: -
South_Asian: 31.29
South_Central_Asian: 51.19
South_Chinese: -
Volga-Ural: 1.80
West_African: -
West_Caucasian: -
West_Med: -

Wait, how can I use the DIY calculators? I was wondering how people were accessing calculators on GedMatch not listed in the options. Would you mind giving me your GedMatch ID? I can give you mine, it makes things a lot easier. I didn't go through all of these calculators, so I guess that I am a bit more South Indian than I thought, but not more than the average high caste Pathan or Punjabi. The thing is, most of the Punjabis, Pathans, and Sindhis doing these tests are from high castes, so that is why they show less South Indian DNA than the average Indian. I bet if the lower caste Pakistanis did these tests, they would have significantly more South Indian DNA. I think that both Eurasia K9 and puntDNAL exaggerate the amount of South Indian DNA present in me. Eurasia only says 13.79, and I am the closest to a Pakistani Pashtun in the oracle; whereas, puntDNAL Ancient K10 gives me 39.35, and I score the closest to a Pakistani Pashtun (Pathan) again. It may be possible that my "Iranian" ancestor may have been a Baloch and not from Larestan, as the tradition states. The Baloch are classified as South Asian on 23andMe. I think that may be why WeGene showed me as being 8.16% Iranian.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-17-2016, 09:46 PM
Post your Harappa results. That calculator is not good, because well Southern Iranians are have a lot of Iran_N ancestry , that "Iranian" I am guessing is either Anatolian Farmer related or a SW Asian component which peaks in Peninsular Arabs.

Harappa results have been posted, look at my reply to Khanabadoshi.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-17-2016, 09:47 PM
Wegene used Iranians from Tehran as references for their "Iranian" component. Due to Tehran being cosmopolitan, it is hard to figure out what those individual backgrounds were, but I am guessing that they were closely alligned with Kurds-Baloch, because my Iraqi Kurd sample scored 73% Iranian, and an Iranian Baloch scored 99% Iranian.

Interesting, I wouldn't be surprised if my Iranian ancestor from Larestan may actually have been a Baloch from Iran.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-17-2016, 10:39 PM
Also, can someone teach me how to use DIY calculators? I want to try the Turkic K11 one. Also, is there an Iranian calculator?

jesus
11-17-2016, 11:06 PM
Interesting, I wouldn't be surprised if my Iranian ancestor from Larestan may actually have been a Baloch from Iran.

The region of larestan doesn't have any baloch as far as I remember. Laristani as a surname is used by lari(a Middle Persian language) and Persian speakers from larestan.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-17-2016, 11:29 PM
The region of larestan doesn't have any baloch as far as I remember. Laristani as a surname is used by lari(a Middle Persian language) and Persian speakers from larestan.

No, you didn't understand me. I know that Larestan doesn't have any Balochis. I know my geography and history, relax. What I meant to say was that my Iranian ancestor may not have been from Larestan as claimed, and he may have been a Balochi from Balochistan in Iran. Perhaps he claimed to be Lari or it was a myth propagated after his death. Sorry for not being clear enough.

jatt2016
11-18-2016, 12:03 AM
Seems L1a1 is most common in South Asia, particularly Western India and Southern Pakistan; but it is also found in Southern Iran -- so it's possible.


Y-DNA haplogroup L is found at low frequencies in the Middle East and Europe as paragroup L-M317 (L1b*, originally L2*), subgroup L-M349 (L1b1, originally L2a) and subgroup L-L595 (L2), and at significant frequencies in South Asia as subgroups L-M27 (L1a1, formerly L1a and originally L1) and L-M357 (L1a2, formerly L1c and originally L3).

(http://isogg.org/tree/2015/ISOGG_HapgrpL15.html)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20#L1a1_.28M27.29)


There is a blog on this, I don't know how accurate it is, but it's interesting:

Pakistan and India - Present Day Home of L1a1 and L1a2L1a splits again into two sub clades. The split occurred around 17,400 years ago. L1a1, as defined by SNP M27 (on older nomenclature as still used by 23andMe, this was formerly L1*) is mainly found in India, particularly South West India, and in Sri Lanka, where it has been projected onto 15% of men. It is however, also found outside of India, in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan, and Iran. This is perhaps the most populous modern day L sub clade, found in 14.5% of Indian males.
L1a and L1a1 (L-M27) at Birds Eye Cave, Armenia 6161 years before present.Ancient Y DNA from the Copper Age has recently emerged from this location, and included L1a, and L1a1. This might suggest, that although very successful today in India and Pakistan, that it has a Western Asian origin.
L1a2 as defined by SNP M357 (on older nomenclature as still used by 23andMe, this was formerly L3*). This sub clade is mainly found in Pakistan, but also Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, The Chechen Republic, Tajikistan, India, and Afghanistan.
So, the L1a sub clades - spreading down into Southern Asia, and accounting for potentially millions of Y Men there. Far more than any other branches of Y Haplogroup L. However, Southern Asia is unlikely to be the origin of L. That origin is more likely, as stated earlier, to be the place with the most diversity in branches. That points more towards again towards Western Asia. It's just that ancient carriers of L, appear to have been particularly successful in Southern Asia, and to have fathered more sons there.

(http://paulbrooker.posthaven.com/y-haplogroup-l-not-the-r1b-sub-clade-or-mtdna-resource-page)








Post your Harappa results. That calculator is not good, because well Southern Iranians are have a lot of Iran_N ancestry , that "Iranian" I am guessing is either Anatolian Farmer related or a SW Asian component which peaks in Peninsular Arabs.


The region of larestan doesn't have any baloch as far as I remember. Laristani as a surname is used by lari(a Middle Persian language) and Persian speakers from larestan.


No, you didn't understand me. I know that Larestan doesn't have any Balochis. I know my geography and history, relax. What I meant to say was that my Iranian ancestor may not have been from Larestan as claimed, and he may have been a Balochi from Balochistan in Iran. Perhaps he claimed to be Lari or it was a myth propagated after his death. Sorry for not being clear enough.

Quoted you all and would like your opinion on how I see it "

Having 9 % Iranian or 38 percent Central Asian, 12 % Arab does not make one from these regions , neither does it imply that any of your ancestors were from these areas specially with a percentages as low as 9 % or 10 % and rightly Geongraphic warns its clients not to draw false inferences about their origin by announcing :

" We compared your DNA results to the reference populations we currently have in our database and estimated which of these populations were most similar to you in terms of the genetic markers you carry. This doesn’t necessarily mean that you belong to these groups, but that these groups were a similar genetic match, and can therefore be used as a guide to help determine why you have a certain result."

Two geographically distinct populations can have similarities for instance my own Ancestry results shows Siberian/Finland @ 9 percent but that does not mean that my ancestors came from there but just shows that some of my DNA is identical to theirs. I hope you get my point. Please do not take these ancestry results literally to trace your origin.

One day when I have time , I will write a detailed thread on ancestry results misinterpretations and short comings.

https://i.gyazo.com/945c2d1c321e634584f04593123ee2bd.png

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 12:20 AM
Quoted you all and would like your opinion on how I see it "

Having 9 % Iranian or 38 percent Central Asian, 12 % Arab does not make one from these regions , neither does it imply that any of your ancestors were from these areas specially with a percentages as low as 9 % or 10 % and rightly Geongraphic warns its clients not to draw false inferences about their origin by announcing :

" We compared your DNA results to the reference populations we currently have in our database and estimated which of these populations were most similar to you in terms of the genetic markers you carry. This doesn’t necessarily mean that you belong to these groups, but that these groups were a similar genetic match, and can therefore be used as a guide to help determine why you have a certain result."

Two geographically distinct populations can have similarities for instance my own Ancestry results shows Siberian/Finland @ 9 percent but that does not mean that my ancestors came from there but just shows that some of my DNA is identical to theirs. I hope you get my point. Please do not take these ancestry results literally to trace your origin.

One day when I have time , I will write a detailed thread on ancestry results misinterpretations and short comings.

https://i.gyazo.com/945c2d1c321e634584f04593123ee2bd.png

You have a point Jatt, but I am talking about WeGene not Geno 2.0, unless it uses the same methods, then go ahead and correct me. Also, you did not do AncestryDNA or 23andMe, which are quite different from FtDNA and Geno 2.0. Both Geno 2.0 and FtDNA are not accurate as 23andMe and AncestryDNA. Anyhow, I agree with you to an extent however. By the way, what's your name? I am in Canada also. Are you in Toronto?

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 12:31 AM
Furthermore Jatt 2016, you should try 23andMe because it can accurately pinpoint your origins within the past 200 to 300 years, unlike Geno 2.0 or FtDNA.

jatt2016
11-18-2016, 12:36 AM
Furthermore Jatt 2016, you should try 23andMe because it can accurately pinpoint your origins within the past 200 to 300 years, unlike Geno 2.0 or FtDNA.

I was highly impressed by their ancestry composition prediction. Very accurate in case of south Asians.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 12:38 AM
I was highly impressed by the ancestry composition prediction. Very accurate in case of south Asians.

Thank you, check PM.

jatt2016
11-18-2016, 12:47 AM
You have a point Jatt, but I am talking about WeGene not Geno 2.0, unless it uses the same methods, then go ahead and correct me. Also, you did not do AncestryDNA or 23andMe, which are quite different from FtDNA and Geno 2.0. Both Geno 2.0 and FtDNA are not accurate as 23andMe and AncestryDNA. Anyhow, I agree with you to an extent however. By the way, what's your name? I am in Canada also. Are you in Toronto?

All of them use the same method. This is what they do :

Admixture testing compares an individual’s DNA with specific sequences of DNA that are more prevalent in people from one area of the world than from another area.
This kind of test focuses on the 22 pairs of nonsex chromosomes in every cell.Admixture calculations provide genetic ancestry analysis to individuals tested for high-density single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) data. The different SNP extraction methods (mostly SNP-chips) need substantial overlap of extracted SNPs to allow meaningful comparisons.

There are drawbacks of this method and can be addressed in details. Please note that these results are not so accurate and the below is the advice from ISOGGG http://isogg.org/wiki/Admixture_analyses :

Most calculators use a shared subset of the up to 0.7 million SNPs provided by Family Finder, AncestryDNA, 23andMe, etc. These are compared with publicly available datasets and the companies' own proprietary datasets. As can be seen from the Autosomal DNA testing comparison chart the accuracy and sophistication vary greatly and have not yet reached the quality desired for accurate genetic genealogy research. The public dbSNP (Build 137) database contains ca. 45 million human SNPs, and comprehensive whole-genome sequencing (WGS) of all human populations could substantially increase that number and allow much better calculators.


Yes I am from Toronto. Name is Ahmed.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 01:02 AM
All of them use the same method. This is what they do :

Admixture testing compares an individual’s DNA with specific sequences of DNA that are more prevalent in people from one area of the world than from another area.
This kind of test focuses on the 22 pairs of nonsex chromosomes in every cell.Admixture calculations provide genetic ancestry analysis to individuals tested for high-density single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) data. The different SNP extraction methods (mostly SNP-chips) need substantial overlap of extracted SNPs to allow meaningful comparisons.

There are drawbacks of this method and can be addressed in details. Please note that these results are not so accurate and the below is the advice from ISOGGG http://isogg.org/wiki/Admixture_analyses :

Most calculators use a shared subset of the up to 0.7 million SNPs provided by Family Finder, AncestryDNA, 23andMe, etc. These are compared with publicly available datasets and the companies' own proprietary datasets. As can be seen from the Autosomal DNA testing comparison chart the accuracy and sophistication vary greatly and have not yet reached the quality desired for accurate genetic genealogy research. The public dbSNP (Build 137) database contains ca. 45 million human SNPs, and comprehensive whole-genome sequencing (WGS) of all human populations could substantially increase that number and allow much better calculators.


Yes I am from Toronto. Name is Ahmed.

Okay, do you know how to launch the K 11 Turkic calculator? I downloaded Dodecad calculator V3, but how can I run Turkic K11 on it? Please help.

jatt2016
11-18-2016, 01:08 AM
Okay, do you know how to launch the K 11 Turkic calculator? I downloaded Dodecad calculator V3, but how can I run Turkic K11 on it? Please help.

Khanbadoshi and Kurd are experts on it. They might be able to you assist you.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 01:19 AM
Wegene used Iranians from Tehran as references for their "Iranian" component. Due to Tehran being cosmopolitan, it is hard to figure out what those individual backgrounds were, but I am guessing that they were closely alligned with Kurds-Baloch, because my Iraqi Kurd sample scored 73% Iranian, and an Iranian Baloch scored 99% Iranian.

Kurd man, you make a Turkic K11 calculator and provide no instructions whatsoever? Come on bro, that's not right.

jatt2016
11-18-2016, 01:36 AM
Kurd man, you make a Turkic K11 calculator and provide no instructions whatsoever? Come on bro, that's not right.

can you post your geno 2.0 results please.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 01:38 AM
I never did Geno 2.0, and after hearing that they use FtDNA as a third party for the Autosomal analysis, I am not going to do it.

I did however do AncestryDNA.

I got

98% South Asian
<1% Caucasus
<1% Central Asia
<1% Melanesia
<1% Polynesia

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 03:01 AM
Tajiks surprisingly have a large proportion of their ancestry from the Middle East, hinting at an Iranian origin. For example, user Rukha, who shares my Y-Haplogroup, is half Tajik and half Pashtun, and he scores an astonishing 34.7% Middle East, whereas I only score 0.1%. Most Tajiks, not Farsiwan Pashtuns, should score anywhere between 50-90% Middle East on 23andMe. Quite interesting. I have attached Rukha's result below.

Khanabadosh is your grandmother Tajik? I have seen some of your posts of your family. If she is a Tajik from Afghanistan, she should have a high proportion of her DNA from the Middle East.

Rukha isn't the only Tajik who I have seen score highly on Middle Eastern on 23andMe, many others have also done so. I am talking about Afghan Tajiks.

12599

jatt2016
11-18-2016, 03:26 AM
Tajiks surprisingly have a large proportion of their ancestry from the Middle East, hinting at an Iranian origin. For example, user Rukha, who shares my Y-Haplogroup, is half Tajik and half Pashtun, and he scores an astonishing 34.7% Middle East, whereas I only score 0.1%. Most Tajiks, not Farsiwan Pashtuns, should score anywhere between 50-90% Middle East on 23andMe. Quite interesting. I have attached Rukha's result below.

Khanabadosh is your grandmother Tajik? I have seen some of your posts of your family. If she is a Tajik from Afghanistan, she should have a high proportion of her DNA from the Middle East.

PAAA JEE the reason being that 23andme does not have a central Asian component. The central Asian seg must have got overlapped as being Arab. As I said earlier these are all predictions and depends upon what reference populations the vendor uses. Had 23andme an Central Asian component then this person would have come up as

Rukha isn't the only Tajik who I have seen score highly on Middle Eastern on 23andMe, many others have also done so. I am talking about Afghan Tajiks.

12599


Sir Jee the problem with these predictors is that they lack certain reference populations for instance 23andme lacks central Asian category and hence it gets misrepresented as middle eastern. Had 23andme a central Asian component then this person would have come up like 40 percent Central Asian and so on. 23ANDME and all other ancestry admixture companies are using predictions based on the reference populations they have and it varies from vendor to vendor.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 03:48 AM
Sir Jee the problem with these predictors is that they lack certain reference populations for instance 23andme lacks central Asian category and hence it gets misrepresented as middle eastern. Had 23andme a central Asian component then this person would have come up like 40 percent Central Asian and so on. 23ANDME and all other ancestry admixture companies are using predictions based on the reference populations they have and it varies from vendor to vendor.

You make a good point, but even on AncestryDNA, where there is a Central Asia component, most Tajiks score higher on Caucasus (Iran, Turkey, etc.) than they do on South Asia or Central Asia, which proves that Tajiks have a connection with Iran, and this is validated by GedMatch. 23andMe only lacks Central Asia because Central Asians are mixed and there is no unique Central Asian DNA. Central Asians are the descendants of Turks, Indians, and Iranians, of course they're not going to have a reference population. That is actually very smart on the part of 23andMe, but I know what you are trying to say.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 04:15 AM
Sir Jee the problem with these predictors is that they lack certain reference populations for instance 23andme lacks central Asian category and hence it gets misrepresented as middle eastern. Had 23andme a central Asian component then this person would have come up like 40 percent Central Asian and so on. 23ANDME and all other ancestry admixture companies are using predictions based on the reference populations they have and it varies from vendor to vendor.

Jatt sahab, what were your FtDNA results? Here are mine.

12600

jatt2016
11-18-2016, 11:22 AM
Jatt sahab, what were your FtDNA results? Here are mine.

12600

I did not go with FTDNA. Only 23andme and Geno.

bol_nat
11-18-2016, 05:33 PM
Seems L1a1 is most common in South Asia, particularly Western India and Southern Pakistan; but it is also found in Southern Iran -- so it's possible.


Y-DNA haplogroup L is found at low frequencies in the Middle East and Europe as paragroup L-M317 (L1b*, originally L2*), subgroup L-M349 (L1b1, originally L2a) and subgroup L-L595 (L2), and at significant frequencies in South Asia as subgroups L-M27 (L1a1, formerly L1a and originally L1) and L-M357 (L1a2, formerly L1c and originally L3).

(http://isogg.org/tree/2015/ISOGG_HapgrpL15.html)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20#L1a1_.28M27.29)


There is a blog on this, I don't know how accurate it is, but it's interesting:

Pakistan and India - Present Day Home of L1a1 and L1a2L1a splits again into two sub clades. The split occurred around 17,400 years ago. L1a1, as defined by SNP M27 (on older nomenclature as still used by 23andMe, this was formerly L1*) is mainly found in India, particularly South West India, and in Sri Lanka, where it has been projected onto 15% of men. It is however, also found outside of India, in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan, and Iran. This is perhaps the most populous modern day L sub clade, found in 14.5% of Indian males.
L1a and L1a1 (L-M27) at Birds Eye Cave, Armenia 6161 years before present.Ancient Y DNA from the Copper Age has recently emerged from this location, and included L1a, and L1a1. This might suggest, that although very successful today in India and Pakistan, that it has a Western Asian origin.
L1a2 as defined by SNP M357 (on older nomenclature as still used by 23andMe, this was formerly L3*). This sub clade is mainly found in Pakistan, but also Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, The Chechen Republic, Tajikistan, India, and Afghanistan.
So, the L1a sub clades - spreading down into Southern Asia, and accounting for potentially millions of Y Men there. Far more than any other branches of Y Haplogroup L. However, Southern Asia is unlikely to be the origin of L. That origin is more likely, as stated earlier, to be the place with the most diversity in branches. That points more towards again towards Western Asia. It's just that ancient carriers of L, appear to have been particularly successful in Southern Asia, and to have fathered more sons there.

(http://paulbrooker.posthaven.com/y-haplogroup-l-not-the-r1b-sub-clade-or-mtdna-resource-page)







L1-M27 and L1a1 is same thing right? Frequency of L1a1 in Pakistan population.

http://i.imgur.com/JjoxHQX.jpg

http://prr.hec.gov.pk/Chapters/1026S-4.pdf

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 08:08 PM
L1-M27 and L1a1 is same thing right? Frequency of L1a1 in Pakistan population.

http://i.imgur.com/JjoxHQX.jpg

http://prr.hec.gov.pk/Chapters/1026S-4.pdf

Still, 5% is not a lot, not at all.

bol_nat
11-18-2016, 08:30 PM
Still, 5% is not a lot, not at all.

My friend harappa results who is also gujjar from Gujrat, if you want gedmatch id then pm me.

HarappaWorld Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 44.32
2 S-Indian 31.95
3 Caucasian 12.91
4 NE-Euro 8.25
5 SE-Asian 0.72
6 Siberian 0.69
7 SW-Asian 0.51
8 Mediterranean 0.43
9 Beringian 0.16
10 American 0.05

And this guy is Janjua rajput from Azad Kashmir.

HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 42.56
2 S-Indian 33.75
3 Caucasian 11.17
4 NE-Euro 7.08
5 NE-Asian 2.35
6 SW-Asian 1.58

Just to compare with your results

HarappaWorld Admixture Proportions
S-Indian: 31.17
Baloch: 43.71
Caucasian: 10.80
NE-Euro: 6.88
SE-Asian: -
Siberian: 0.82
NE-Asian: -
Papuan: 0.66
American: 1.16
Beringian: 0.88
Mediterranean: 0.26
SW-Asian: 3.43
San: -
E-African: -
Pygmy: 0.23
W-African: -

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 08:57 PM
My friend harappa results who is also gujjar from Gujrat, if you want gedmatch id then pm me.

HarappaWorld Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 44.32
2 S-Indian 31.95
3 Caucasian 12.91
4 NE-Euro 8.25
5 SE-Asian 0.72
6 Siberian 0.69
7 SW-Asian 0.51
8 Mediterranean 0.43
9 Beringian 0.16
10 American 0.05

And this guy is Janjua rajput from Azad Kashmir.

HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 42.56
2 S-Indian 33.75
3 Caucasian 11.17
4 NE-Euro 7.08
5 NE-Asian 2.35
6 SW-Asian 1.58

Just to compare with your results

HarappaWorld Admixture Proportions
S-Indian: 31.17
Baloch: 43.71
Caucasian: 10.80
NE-Euro: 6.88
SE-Asian: -
Siberian: 0.82
NE-Asian: -
Papuan: 0.66
American: 1.16
Beringian: 0.88
Mediterranean: 0.26
SW-Asian: 3.43
San: -
E-African: -
Pygmy: 0.23
W-African: -

Interesting, I score closely to them. Thanks for sharing, very cool.
Look at these FtDNA results of people on this site: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XGY-UIBC2GcUWGl1FizNvu9ofle4ZPHvfNmbrVYxGMo/edit#gid=14
I score a lower percentage of South Asian than all of the Punjabis Jatts from Pakistan, and very similar to Jatt Sikhs. I also have a higher Central Asian component then all of them.

My results for FtDNA:
12609

bol_nat
11-18-2016, 09:08 PM
Interesting, I score closely to them. Thanks for sharing, very cool.
Look at these FtDNA results of people on this site: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XGY-UIBC2GcUWGl1FizNvu9ofle4ZPHvfNmbrVYxGMo/edit#gid=14
I score a lower percentage of South Asian than all of the Punjabis Jatts from Pakistan, and very similar to Jatt Sikhs. I also have a higher Central Asian component then all of them.

My results for FtDNA:
12609

I don't know about FtDNA but you can compare your gedmatch calc results with other south asians from different backgrounds here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XGY-UIBC2GcUWGl1FizNvu9ofle4ZPHvfNmbrVYxGMo/edit#gid=6

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l87nGSIYTP-h7m-VKjB-BZcuEoWdz765nU4f_krOdd4/edit#gid=0

bol_nat
11-18-2016, 09:31 PM
There was another gujjar from Gujrat who scored 29% south indian so my guess is your mother will score 29% and your janjua father 33%. 62/2= 31 B)

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 09:39 PM
There was another gujjar from Gujrat who scored 29% south indian so my guess is your mother will score 29% and your janjua father 33%. 62/2= 31 B)

Perhaps. What was your Paternal Haplogroup?

bol_nat
11-18-2016, 09:58 PM
Perhaps. What was your Paternal Haplogroup?

h1a* which is also rare like yours. Maybe one of maternal ancestor from father side had illicit relation with massali of our village. ;)

http://i.imgur.com/hU1RIsN.jpg

Kaido
11-18-2016, 10:00 PM
Thanks for getting back. Do you have Iranian ancestry? Are you from Afghanistan? Your Y Haplogroup seems to suggest a Turkic origin?

Hey, nope no Iranian ancestry, and I'm from Pakistan (KPK). Yeah I think turkic ancestry might be the case but I don't know enough to say so for sure.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 10:11 PM
h1a* which is also rare like yours. Maybe one of maternal ancestor from father side had illicit relation with massali of our village. ;)

http://i.imgur.com/hU1RIsN.jpg

Damn those Massalis! I wonder how they would score on these tests. I am thinking that they would be 30-40% Central Asian and 60-70% South Asian. I think they are closer genetically to Tamils TBH, they look quite foreign. However, I don't think that it was recent, because if it was we would be scoring higher on South India on GedMatch. Massalis are very Dravidian looking, even their facial features resemble Australoids. When I first saw the Massalis of my dad's village, I was shocked. In fact, Massalis look more South Indian than most Tamils I know. We should carry out DNA tests on them to see what their genetic origins are. It would be interesting to see what they score on GedMatch and FtDNA in regards to South Indian ancestry.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-18-2016, 10:12 PM
Hey, nope no Iranian ancestry, and I'm from Pakistan (KPK). Yeah I think turkic ancestry might be the case but I don't know enough to say so for sure.

Yeah, I saw your FtDNA result on these forums. You have almost as much South Asian ancestry as me, 29% for you, and 32% for me. I actually have lower South Asian ancestry than most Pakistani Jatts who have tested with FtDNA on this site. I posted the link to the tests somewhere in this thread.

No, you have Turkic ancestry. Your Y-Haplogroup is a Turkic haplogroup.

khanabadoshi
11-19-2016, 12:21 AM
My 23andMe results were as follows:

South Asian: 99.1%
European: 0.5%
East Asian: 0.3%
Middle Eastern: 0.1%

Paternal Haplogroup: L1a1
Maternal Haplogroup: G3b

My FamilytreeDNA Results (Only Family finder and MyOrigins):

68% Central Asian
32% South Asian


I don't know why you are suggesting that my Paternal ancestors came from India. This is not the case. I am from Gujrat, Pakistan and we were in what is now Pakistan for hundreds of years, and none of my ancestors migrated to Pakistan during partition. Also, I am from a high caste Zamindar family, and my great grandfather owned one hundred acres of land in a village in Gujrat. Perhaps there may have been a migration from India before, but not in the past 500 years as I have my family history documented. I will say one thing however, and that is that in our village in Pakistan, there are low caste people who look Tamil and Dravidian in appearance, and they have been there for a very long time. We do not have any sort of relationship with them and do not intermarry. It could be possible that one of my maternal ancestors in my paternal line had an illicit relationship with one of these Dravidians, we call them "Massalis". I would assume that these low caste Dravidians are around 60-70% South Asian and 30-40% Central Asian and carry Paternal haplogroup L1a1. Also, L1a1 is not found in high numbers among the Rajputs. Rajput is a high caste, and also L1a1 is a predominantly Dravidian haplogroup in case you didn't know. This lineage is only found among 0.5% to 2% of northern Pakistanis (low castes mainly), and none of my ancestors are Sindhi. It's not found in high numbers in western India (2-6%), below is the map of its distribution:


I was actually implying the opposite, because in the link I posted there is hypothesis that L1a1 is actually W Asian in origin but moved eastward; and while it now found mostly in South Western India, that is not the site of its origin.
I don't know much about the L haplogroup at all though. Users, Dr_McNinja and Parasar, have a lot of knowledge regarding South Asian haplogroups.

That being said, how we look nowadays or our castes have little bearing on our haplogroups -- your yDNA line and mtDNA line are just 2 lines of 1000s of ancestors. The sum of those thousands makes our autosomal DNA and ultimately how we look. If there is an effect of High-caste/Low-caste they will tend to have more effect on the autosomal DNA results though. I don't think we can group high-caste/low-caste based on haplogroups; at least not yet. Of course South Indian Dravidians also have high-castes as well so there is that possibility if there is such a correlation with the L1a1 haplogroup.

However, I don't think your L1a1 has anything to do with South India, because if you are Rajput, your ancestors should be at some point from Rajputana which is next to Sindh and in the 5-10% prevalence according to your distribution map -- so I don't see it exceptionally unusual? Considering its highest prevalence in South Western India is maximum 12%, it's a haplogroup that isn't very common overall, but I don't think it can be strongly associated with a specific ethnic group in particular except by saying it is most common in South Asia in general.

I'll take a look at your posted results in a bit! I'll post some results of myself and others for comparison so you can check it out.

khanabadoshi
11-19-2016, 12:26 AM
L1-M27 and L1a1 is same thing right? Frequency of L1a1 in Pakistan population.

http://i.imgur.com/JjoxHQX.jpg

http://prr.hec.gov.pk/Chapters/1026S-4.pdf


Yeah they are, according to what I've seen. I believe L1a1 is the old name, and L1-M27 is now more commonly used.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-19-2016, 12:34 AM
I was actually implying the opposite, because in the link I posted there is hypothesis that L1a1 is actually W Asian in origin but moved eastward; and while it now found mostly in South Western India, that is not the site of its origin.
I don't know much about the L haplogroup at all though. Users, Dr_McNinja and Parasar, have a lot of knowledge regarding South Asian haplogroups.

That being said, how we look nowadays or our castes have little bearing on our haplogroups -- your yDNA line and mtDNA line are just 2 lines of 1000s of ancestors. The sum of those thousands makes our autosomal DNA and ultimately how we look. If there is an effect of High-caste/Low-caste they will tend to have more effect on the autosomal DNA results though. I don't think we can group high-caste/low-caste based on haplogroups; at least not yet. Of course South Indian Dravidians also have high-castes as well so there is that possibility if there is such a correlation with the L1a1 haplogroup.

However, I don't think your L1a1 has anything to do with South India, because if you are Rajput, your ancestors should be at some point from Rajputana which is next to Sindh and in the 5-10% prevalence according to your distribution map -- so I don't see it exceptionally unusual? Considering its highest prevalence in South Western India is maximum 12%, it's a haplogroup that isn't very common overall, but I don't think it can be strongly associated with a specific ethnic group in particular except by saying it is most common in South Asia in general.

I'll take a look at your posted results in a bit! I'll post some results of myself and others for comparison so you can check it out.

Thanks. Can you also help me launch the Turkic K11 calculator? Thanks. Let me know what I should do.

jatt2016
11-19-2016, 12:38 AM
https://i.gyazo.com/a3416e6dad4a5950e726ec0ce976089e.png

My 23andme 20 % unassigned my great grandfather married a Martian.:)

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-19-2016, 01:46 AM
https://i.gyazo.com/a3416e6dad4a5950e726ec0ce976089e.png

My 23andme 20 % unassigned my great grandfather married a Martian.:)

You probably have some Subsaharan African in there, and are too ashamed to reveal it. ;)

jatt2016
11-19-2016, 01:54 AM
You probably have some Subsaharan African in there, and are too ashamed to reveal it. ;)

? no sub Saharan in traces. The traces includesome Oceanic , some European and other unassigned.

https://i.gyazo.com/fc4052808463635c67b02c42f550a46e.png

even if I were? what so shameful about sub Saharan ancestry? How old are you, u sound very excited about other's ancestries.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-19-2016, 01:58 AM
? no sub Saharan in traces. The traces includesome Oceanic , some European and other unassigned.

https://i.gyazo.com/fc4052808463635c67b02c42f550a46e.png

even if I were? what so shameful about sub Saharan ancestry? How old are you, u sound very excited about other's ancestries.

I am just playing with you. I got Oceanian on AncestryDNA, but not 23andMe. I think it's proto-Dravidian, if I am not mistaken.

jatt2016
11-19-2016, 02:02 AM
I am just playing with you. I got Oceanian on AncestryDNA, but not 23andMe. I think it's proto-Dravidian, if I am not mistaken.

No idea but as I advised you earlier do not take these admixture calculators so seriously as there are lots of uncertainities/inaccuracies involved and rightly ISOGG and GENO has pointed these out on their splash pages.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-19-2016, 02:18 AM
I was actually implying the opposite, because in the link I posted there is hypothesis that L1a1 is actually W Asian in origin but moved eastward; and while it now found mostly in South Western India, that is not the site of its origin.
I don't know much about the L haplogroup at all though. Users, Dr_McNinja and Parasar, have a lot of knowledge regarding South Asian haplogroups.

That being said, how we look nowadays or our castes have little bearing on our haplogroups -- your yDNA line and mtDNA line are just 2 lines of 1000s of ancestors. The sum of those thousands makes our autosomal DNA and ultimately how we look. If there is an effect of High-caste/Low-caste they will tend to have more effect on the autosomal DNA results though. I don't think we can group high-caste/low-caste based on haplogroups; at least not yet. Of course South Indian Dravidians also have high-castes as well so there is that possibility if there is such a correlation with the L1a1 haplogroup.

However, I don't think your L1a1 has anything to do with South India, because if you are Rajput, your ancestors should be at some point from Rajputana which is next to Sindh and in the 5-10% prevalence according to your distribution map -- so I don't see it exceptionally unusual? Considering its highest prevalence in South Western India is maximum 12%, it's a haplogroup that isn't very common overall, but I don't think it can be strongly associated with a specific ethnic group in particular except by saying it is most common in South Asia in general.

I'll take a look at your posted results in a bit! I'll post some results of myself and others for comparison so you can check it out.

Are you an Ahmadi?

bol_nat
11-19-2016, 03:20 AM
Hi all, I am a Pakistani from Punjab. My WeGene results seem to suggest that I am 8.16% Iranian. However, neither my 23andMe, nor my AncestryDNA or FtDNA seem to detect this. Only WeGene shows me as 8.16% Iranian. There is a family tree which shows that my great-great grandfather was from Larestan in southern Iran. However, only GedMatch and WeGene detect my Iranian ancestry, not 23andMe, nor AncestryDna, or even FtDNA. Here is my WeGene result.

12576

What do you think?

My WeGene results for comparison. You don't seem to score much caucasian in Harappa either unlike Iranians or even other people of Gujrat like me. Does you father claim Iranian ancestry despite being janjua rajput?

http://i.imgur.com/rBcGiO0.jpg

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-19-2016, 03:47 AM
My WeGene results for comparison. You don't seem to score much caucasian in Harappa either unlike Iranians or even other people of Gujrat like me. Does you father claim Iranian ancestry despite being janjua rajput?

http://i.imgur.com/rBcGiO0.jpg

The Iranian is from my grandfather's grandmother's side. Why? How much Caucasian do you score? What's your point? I score a lot of Baloch and Gedrosia though, so I am not really sure about much. :/

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-19-2016, 03:53 AM
Your Harrapa World Results:

S-Indian 31.24
Baloch 40.75
Caucasian 12.19
NE-Euro 7.83
SE-Asian 0.33
Siberian 0.26
NE-Asian 0.18
Papuan 1.47
American -
Beringian 2.45
Mediterranean 1.89
SW-Asian 1.37
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

Mine:

S-Indian 31.17
Baloch 43.71
Caucasian 10.80
NE-Euro 6.88
SE-Asian -
Siberian 0.82
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.66
American 1.16
Beringian 0.88
Mediterranean 0.26
SW-Asian 3.43
San -
E-African -
Pygmy 0.23
W-African -

Eurasia K9 ASI

You:

SE_Asian 8.36
Early_Neolithic_Farmers 5.60
SW_Asian 0.89
Ancestral_South_Indian 14.70
Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 11.67
WHG 4.21
Siberian_E_Asian 0.87
Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 53.70
W_African -

Me:

SE_Asian 7.14
Early_Neolithic_Farmers 4.16
SW_Asian 8.82
Ancestral_South_Indian 13.79
Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 7.70
WHG 4.06
Siberian_E_Asian 2.74
Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 51.50
W_African 0.10

Eurasia K36

You:

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 3.58
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 0.92
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 11.01
North_Sea 2.55
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 1.34
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian 32.92
South_Central_Asian 43.33
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 4.35
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Me:

Amerindian 0.21
Arabian -
Armenian 4.70
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 0.64
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 9.16
North_Sea 0.94
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic 0.07
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian 31.29
South_Central_Asian 51.19
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.80
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Dodecad World 9

You:

Amerindian 1.28
East_Asian -
African -
Atlantic_Baltic 8.88
Australasian 1.39
Siberian 2.11
Caucasus_Gedrosia 43.38
Southern 4.85
South_Asian 38.08

Me:

Amerindian 1.15
East_Asian -
African 0.21
Atlantic_Baltic 5.04
Australasian 0.59
Siberian 1.48
Caucasus_Gedrosia 46.77
Southern 5.15
South_Asian 39.61



We score almost the same, so I don't know what you're ranting on about. My dad doesn't care about it. He considers himself a Rajput Janjua. His father's paternal grandmother was from Sarai Alamgir. She had Turkic/East Asian and Iranian ancestry. I went to Pakistan one time and went to Sarai Alamgir to visit her relatives. There I saw a family tree and there was an Iranian by the name of Bahram Shams Lari on it. That's why I am curious to find out.

vintage_sky
11-19-2016, 11:41 AM
Damn those Massalis! I wonder how they would score on these tests. I am thinking that they would be 30-40% Central Asian and 60-70% South Asian. I think they are closer genetically to Tamils TBH, they look quite foreign. However, I don't think that it was recent, because if it was we would be scoring higher on South India on GedMatch. Massalis are very Dravidian looking, even their facial features resemble Australoids. When I first saw the Massalis of my dad's village, I was shocked. In fact, Massalis look more South Indian than most Tamils I know. We should carry out DNA tests on them to see what their genetic origins are. It would be interesting to see what they score on GedMatch and FtDNA in regards to South Indian ancestry.


guys I seriously dont mean to be rude but can you stop castigating people who are of a lower caste. There is no role for this mentality in 2016. The caste system was based on the profession or role you played in society. My family are jatt (an upper class caste) but my clan name is linked to the Rajput. So we were in the ruling class, but overtime we became Jatt and socially accepted as Jat because we took on a agrarian and zamindaar role. And a role in the protection forces.This is shown in my R2a haplogroup. But had it been different I wouldnt care less. We have complicated histories and ancestors. And yes people may have actually married for love outside their caste. We dont know what happened butp Please show some respect to people of lower castes. Yes their ways may be different but please choose your words carefully.

And I just want to add that in todays world people of lower castes are fighting through to make their place in society. Their ancestors may have had a "lowly" profession but today you will see their predecessors in the civil service, law, medicine etc etc. if this mentality doesnt change we will not have equality. forgive me if I have gone off on one!

vintage_sky
11-19-2016, 11:49 AM
Lol hahaha martian. Im sure she was a lovely human being!

bol_nat
11-19-2016, 03:23 PM
Your Harrapa World Results:

S-Indian 31.24
Baloch 40.75
Caucasian 12.19
NE-Euro 7.83
SE-Asian 0.33
Siberian 0.26
NE-Asian 0.18
Papuan 1.47
American -
Beringian 2.45
Mediterranean 1.89
SW-Asian 1.37
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

Mine:

S-Indian 31.17
Baloch 43.71
Caucasian 10.80
NE-Euro 6.88
SE-Asian -
Siberian 0.82
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.66
American 1.16
Beringian 0.88
Mediterranean 0.26
SW-Asian 3.43
San -
E-African -
Pygmy 0.23
W-African -

We score almost the same, so I don't know what you're ranting on about. My dad doesn't care about it. He considers himself a Rajput Janjua. His father's paternal grandmother was from Sarai Alamgir. She had Turkic/East Asian and Iranian ancestry. I went to Pakistan one time and went to Sarai Alamgir to visit her relatives. There I saw a family tree and there was an Iranian by the name of Bahram Shams Lari on it. That's why I am curious to find out.

You didn't understand me. What I meant was that from your results it's not possible to detect any Iranian like ancestry because your results are not that different then others in Gujrat who don't claim any Iranian ancestry. Even though you have Iranian ancestry but there is no way to know it from your results. Like Khanabadoshi said your best bet is to test grandmother if possible if not then your father.

Difference between you and Iranian from Mcninja spreadsheet
Baloch 43.71 (25.97%)
Caucasian 10.80 (39.72%)
Mediterranean 0.26 (6.25%)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XGY-UIBC2GcUWGl1FizNvu9ofle4ZPHvfNmbrVYxGMo/edit#gid=6

khanabadoshi
11-19-2016, 04:18 PM
I asked around and got the following information regarding L - M27:



L-M20 M11, M20, M61, M185, L656, L863, L878, L879

L-M22 M22, M295, PAGES00121

L-M317 M317, L655

L-M349 M349
L-M274 M274
L-L1310 L1310


L-L1304 L1304

L-M27 M27, M76, P329.1, L1318, L1319, L1320, L1321
L-M357 M357

L-PK3 PK3
L-L1305 L1305, L1306, L1307






L-L595 L595

L-L864 L864, L865, L866, L867, L868, L869, L870, L877







L1a-M27/M76 is very frequent among Afghan and Pakistani (probably Iranian too) Balochs.

L1a-M76 is most frequent in Balochi (20%), and is found at lower levels in Kyrgyz, Pashtun, Tajik, Uzbek and Turkmen populations.



http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0076748 (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076748)

Sayyid Ajjal of Bukhara's Hui Muslim descendants in China were also found to be L1

Present Y chromosomes support the Persian ancestry of Sayyid Ajjal Shams al-Din Omar and Eminent Navigator Zheng He

Chuan-Chao Wang et al.

Sayyid Ajjal is the ancestor of many Muslims in areas all across China. And one of his descendants is the famous Navigator of Ming Dynasty, Zheng He, who led the largest armada in the world of 15th century. The origin of Sayyid Ajjal's family remains unclear although many studies have been done on this topic of Muslim history. In this paper, we studied the Y chromosomes of his present descendants, and found they all have haplogroup L1a-M76, proving a southern Persian origin.


http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/10...mosome-of.html (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-persian-in-china-y-chromosome-of.html)

It was also found in three ancient Armenian samples recently. I think the neolithic inhabitants of northern Afghanistan (BMAC) and the IVC had a lot of L, particularly L1 and L3.

http://i.imgur.com/AyWcCcP.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/6eVQhAC.png


Since L-M76 is very close to L-M27 I think it's pretty relevant. Perhaps you should do downstream testing into your y-haplogroup.

khanabadoshi
11-19-2016, 04:27 PM
guys I seriously dont mean to be rude but can you stop castigating people who are of a lower caste. There is no role for this mentality in 2016. The caste system was based on the profession or role you played in society. My family are jatt (an upper class caste) but my clan name is linked to the Rajput. So we were in the ruling class, but overtime we became Jatt and socially accepted as Jat because we took on a agrarian and zamindaar role. And a role in the protection forces.This is shown in my R2a haplogroup. But had it been different I wouldnt care less. We have complicated histories and ancestors. And yes people may have actually married for love outside their caste. We dont know what happened butp Please show some respect to people of lower castes. Yes their ways may be different but please choose your words carefully.

And I just want to add that in todays world people of lower castes are fighting through to make their place in society. Their ancestors may have had a "lowly" profession but today you will see their predecessors in the civil service, law, medicine etc etc. if this mentality doesnt change we will not have equality. forgive me if I have gone off on one!


100% concur. It's of little relevance to most of our discussions and unnecessarily antagonistic. It is far more constructive to discuss in terms of geography and ethnicity; caste, more often than not, is a secondary or tertiary factor to consider.

khanabadoshi
11-19-2016, 04:28 PM
Are you an Ahmadi?

I am not. What led to that impression?

Since we are posting WeGene results:








Lahori Rajput/Kashmiri -
Myself -
Mohmand Pashtun -


https://i.gyazo.com/92c400edacdd48bae8112cb4b2e5ef5b.png
https://i.gyazo.com/0cd79428f0bba0a77ce3a75ad43c35b7.png
https://i.gyazo.com/b7ccaaa2d6c3aae5b0fbae2e205012fb.png

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-19-2016, 10:49 PM
guys I seriously dont mean to be rude but can you stop castigating people who are of a lower caste. There is no role for this mentality in 2016. The caste system was based on the profession or role you played in society. My family are jatt (an upper class caste) but my clan name is linked to the Rajput. So we were in the ruling class, but overtime we became Jatt and socially accepted as Jat because we took on a agrarian and zamindaar role. And a role in the protection forces.This is shown in my R2a haplogroup. But had it been different I wouldnt care less. We have complicated histories and ancestors. And yes people may have actually married for love outside their caste. We dont know what happened butp Please show some respect to people of lower castes. Yes their ways may be different but please choose your words carefully.

And I just want to add that in todays world people of lower castes are fighting through to make their place in society. Their ancestors may have had a "lowly" profession but today you will see their predecessors in the civil service, law, medicine etc etc. if this mentality doesnt change we will not have equality. forgive me if I have gone off on one!

You are mistaken, I did not mean to offend anyone from a low caste. However, you do not know how much the caste system is embedded into the culture of Gujrat and the other rural areas of Pakistan. People live and die by it, even the low caste people except their lowly position in society. Have you ever taken a look at a low caste person? Jatt caste is not a low caste, for your information. You are not from a low caste, but maybe in Kashmir Jatt is a low caste, I am not sure, but not in Gujrat or most of Pakistan and India. What were your FtDNA results? Would you mind sharing? Then I can determine whether you are from a high caste or a low caste. Haplogroup doesn't matter, because their can be cheating or extramarital affairs involved in the maternal line. The castes don't only determine occupations or jobs my friend. Have you ever looked at a low caste person? Did you ever see their facial features? They look Dravidian and Australoid, 100%. If you're ever in Pakistan, and if I go there for a visit, you can come to my dad's village and I can show you what a low caste person looks like, then you will agree with me. They don't look like me or you, they look like Dravidians, dark skin, flat features, etc. What's wrong with being proud of your ancestors and your origins? We are not racist, we are just proud of our origins. For example, I only score 32% South Asia on FtDNA which is indicative of my high caste. I score very similar to high caste Pashtuns like Khanabadoshi and Kaido. So caste does contribute to your genetic makeup my friend. Who cares about what they are today? What matters is who their ancestors were. Would you give your daughter's hand in marriage to a low caste Dravidian, even if he's a doctor, I don't think so, unless you yourself are from a low caste and hiding your origins.


You didn't understand me. What I meant was that from your results it's not possible to detect any Iranian like ancestry because your results are not that different then others in Gujrat who don't claim any Iranian ancestry. Even though you have Iranian ancestry but there is no way to know it from your results. Like Khanabadoshi said your best bet is to test grandmother if possible if not then your father.

Difference between you and Iranian from Mcninja spreadsheet
Baloch 43.71 (25.97%)
Caucasian 10.80 (39.72%)
Mediterranean 0.26 (6.25%)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XGY-UIBC2GcUWGl1FizNvu9ofle4ZPHvfNmbrVYxGMo/edit#gid=6

You are right, it was too far back. So it would be hard to detect any Iranian origin from my results. I am going to test my grandfather, and let you know what his results come up as.


I asked around and got the following information regarding L - M27:



L-M20 M11, M20, M61, M185, L656, L863, L878, L879

L-M22 M22, M295, PAGES00121

L-M317 M317, L655

L-M349 M349
L-M274 M274
L-L1310 L1310


L-L1304 L1304

L-M27 M27, M76, P329.1, L1318, L1319, L1320, L1321
L-M357 M357

L-PK3 PK3
L-L1305 L1305, L1306, L1307






L-L595 L595

L-L864 L864, L865, L866, L867, L868, L869, L870, L877







L1a-M27/M76 is very frequent among Afghan and Pakistani (probably Iranian too) Balochs.

L1a-M76 is most frequent in Balochi (20%), and is found at lower levels in Kyrgyz, Pashtun, Tajik, Uzbek and Turkmen populations.



http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0076748 (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076748)

Sayyid Ajjal of Bukhara's Hui Muslim descendants in China were also found to be L1

Present Y chromosomes support the Persian ancestry of Sayyid Ajjal Shams al-Din Omar and Eminent Navigator Zheng He

Chuan-Chao Wang et al.

Sayyid Ajjal is the ancestor of many Muslims in areas all across China. And one of his descendants is the famous Navigator of Ming Dynasty, Zheng He, who led the largest armada in the world of 15th century. The origin of Sayyid Ajjal's family remains unclear although many studies have been done on this topic of Muslim history. In this paper, we studied the Y chromosomes of his present descendants, and found they all have haplogroup L1a-M76, proving a southern Persian origin.


http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/10...mosome-of.html (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-persian-in-china-y-chromosome-of.html)

It was also found in three ancient Armenian samples recently. I think the neolithic inhabitants of northern Afghanistan (BMAC) and the IVC had a lot of L, particularly L1 and L3.

http://i.imgur.com/AyWcCcP.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/6eVQhAC.png


Since L-M76 is very close to L-M27 I think it's pretty relevant. Perhaps you should do downstream testing into your y-haplogroup.


100% concur. It's of little relevance to most of our discussions and unnecessarily antagonistic. It is far more constructive to discuss in terms of geography and ethnicity; caste is more often than not is a secondary or tertiary factor to consider.

How can I find out what subclade I belong to? Is there a way for knowing about this? Thanks bro. Also, thanks for the information. I thought that you might be Ahmadi because you have a picture of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in your album. I am not Ahmadi by the way.


I am not. What led to that impression?

Since we are posting WeGene results:








Lahori Rajput/Kashmiri -
Myself -
Mohmand Pashtun -


https://i.gyazo.com/92c400edacdd48bae8112cb4b2e5ef5b.png
https://i.gyazo.com/0cd79428f0bba0a77ce3a75ad43c35b7.png
https://i.gyazo.com/b7ccaaa2d6c3aae5b0fbae2e205012fb.png








Interesting, thanks for the share.

vintage_sky
11-19-2016, 11:24 PM
You are mistaken, I did not mean to offend anyone from a low caste. However, you do not know how much the caste system is embedded into the culture of Gujrat and the other rural areas of Pakistan. People live and die by it, even the low caste people except their lowly position in society. Have you ever taken a look at a low caste person? Jatt caste is not a low caste, for your information. You are not from a low caste, but maybe in Kashmir Jatt is a low caste, I am not sure, but not in Gujrat or most of Pakistan and India. What were your FtDNA results? Would you mind sharing? Then I can determine whether you are from a high caste or a low caste. Haplogroup doesn't matter, because their can be cheating or extramarital affairs involved in the maternal line. The castes don't only determine occupations or jobs my friend. Have you ever looked at a low caste person? Did you ever see their facial features? They look Dravidian and Australoid, 100%. If you're ever in Pakistan, and if I go there for a visit, you can come to my dad's village and I can show you what a low caste person looks like, then you will agree with me. They don't look like me or you, they look like Dravidians, dark skin, flat features, etc. What's wrong with being proud of your ancestors and your origins? We are not racist, we are just proud of our origins. For example, I only score 32% South Asia on FtDNA which is indicative of my high caste. I score very similar to high caste Pashtuns like Khanabadoshi and Kaido. So caste does contribute to your genetic makeup my friend. Who cares about what they are today? What matters is who their ancestors were. Would you give your daughter's hand in marriage to a low caste Dravidian, even if he's a doctor, I don't think so, unless you yourself are from a low caste and hiding your origins.



You are right, it was too far back. So it would be hard to detect any Iranian origin from my results. I am going to test my grandfather, and let you know what his results come up as.





How can I find out what subclade I belong to? Is there a way for knowing about this? Thanks bro. Also, thanks for the information. I thought that you might be Ahmad because you have a picture of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in your album. I am not Ahmadi by the way.



Interesting, thanks for the share.

I think you misread my post. I know I am of a higher caste and my clan within the jatts originate fron the Rajputs. I know that people believe in the caste system and take it seriously. I took offence about your darn masalli comment. If you didnt mean offence by it I apologise. However, we shouldn't be marginalising people because of their castes. If lower caste people accept their treatment its because they have been put in a position where they cannot rise above and prosper.

But I have researched my ancestry and I have researched my dna. I dont have access to my ftdna results right now. But I am 30ish% South Asian. Rest is over 60ish% central asian and middle eastern and European. R2 Y and U4b Mtdna.

I have been to Kashmir and I do know what lower caste people look like and yes they have the features you describe but in our village we treat them with respect. I see in many othets they are treated as outcastes.

I find your comment disgusting about giving daughters to lower castes. If that person has good morals and behaviour and has manners that suit my family, looks nice next to my daughter, has good faith in Islam and can provide for her. I dont see what the issue is. I am not hiding anything, like you said my dna speaks for itself. Ive just progressed from that backward mentality. My family are open minded. My parents were uneducated but alhamdulillah open minded. They put no restriction on us for race or caste, except that they meet the criteria I have outlined for my own daughter.

I am a Muslim first. The Prophets companions were black. Some very dark. They married amongst the arabs. The Prophet was raised by Barakah, a black abyssinian slave girl who he freed. The first person to call to prayer was a very dark Bilal of African heritage. An ex-slave. Before islam they were treated like the low castes in India. Im sorry if that offends you. But thats my position on it.

jatt2016
11-19-2016, 11:36 PM
Another amusement for you all : My Wegene results pasted below :

https://i.gyazo.com/3699dc9c8777f7766c1723427962846a.png

OOO lord am I Finnish Now? :) as I have been telling you guys again and again " Do not get over excited by the results of these admixture calculators " these just show a similarity in DNA but does not imply that one of your ancestor is Finnish or Iranian.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-19-2016, 11:49 PM
Another amusement for you all : My Wegene results pasted below :

https://i.gyazo.com/3699dc9c8777f7766c1723427962846a.png

OOO lord am I Finnish Now? :) as I have been telling you guys again and again " Do not get over excited by the results of these admixture calculators " these just show a similarity in DNA but does not imply that one of your ancestor is Finnish or Iranian.

Point made... Thanks for the share.

BalkanKiwi
11-20-2016, 01:41 AM
This thread has breached the Terms of Service a number of times, specifically in relation to Site Content & User Participation.

Discriminatory language including (but not limited to) sexism, racism or other forms of bigotry are not tolerated.

Please familiarize yourself with our Terms of Service, (http://www.anthrogenica.com/faq.php) which you agree to when participating in forum discussion.

This thread will now be closed and cleaned up.

BalkanKiwi
11-20-2016, 02:06 AM
This thread is now open and has been cleaned up as much as possible.

As mentioned above, please keep discussions civil and free of discriminatory language including (but not limited to) sexism, racism or other forms of bigotry. Everyone on the forum has a right to feel safe when involved in discussion, and should not be subjected to any of the above.

If such language and behaviour continues, this thread will be permanently closed.

Thank you for your patience.

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-20-2016, 02:37 AM
This thread is now open and has been cleaned up as much as possible.

As mentioned above, please keep discussions civil and free of discriminatory language including (but not limited to) sexism, racism or other forms of bigotry. Everyone on the forum has a right to feel safe when involved in discussion, and should not be subjected to any of the above.

If such language and behaviour continues, this thread will be permanently closed.

Thank you for your patience.

Thanks, BalkanKiwi. I am also part-Kiwi from my uncle's side. Lol, joking, but thanks, appreciate it.

vintage_sky
11-20-2016, 06:04 AM
This thread is now open and has been cleaned up as much as possible.

As mentioned above, please keep discussions civil and free of discriminatory language including (but not limited to) sexism, racism or other forms of bigotry. Everyone on the forum has a right to feel safe when involved in discussion, and should not be subjected to any of the above.

If such language and behaviour continues, this thread will be permanently closed.

Thank you for your patience.



Thank you admin.

pegasus
11-20-2016, 07:07 AM
My 23andMe results were as follows:

South Asian: 99.1%
European: 0.5%
East Asian: 0.3%
Middle Eastern: 0.1%

Paternal Haplogroup: L1a1
Maternal Haplogroup: G3b

My FamilytreeDNA Results (Only Family finder and MyOrigins):

68% Central Asian
32% South Asian


I don't know why you are suggesting that my Paternal ancestors came from India. This is not the case. I am from Gujrat, Pakistan and we were in what is now Pakistan for hundreds of years, and none of my ancestors migrated to Pakistan during partition. Also, I am from a high caste Zamindar family, and my great grandfather owned one hundred acres of land in a village in Gujrat. Perhaps there may have been a migration from India before, but not in the past 500 years as I have my family history documented. I will say one thing however, and that is that in our village in Pakistan, there are low caste people who look Tamil and Dravidian in appearance, and they have been there for a very long time. We do not have any sort of relationship with them and do not intermarry. It could be possible that one of my maternal ancestors in my paternal line had an illicit relationship with one of these Dravidians, we call them "Massalis". I would assume that these low caste Dravidians are around 60-70% South Asian and 30-40% Central Asian and carry Paternal haplogroup L1a1. Also, L1a1 is not found in high numbers among the Rajputs. Rajput is a high caste, and also L1a1 is a predominantly Dravidian haplogroup in case you didn't know. This lineage is only found among 0.5% to 2% of northern Pakistanis (low castes mainly), and none of my ancestors are Sindhi. It's not found in high numbers in western India (2-6%), below is the map of its distribution:

http://gentis.ru/img/y/M27.gif

My MtDNA is Central Asian/East Asian in origin and is from the very rare MtDNA haplogroup G.

Yes, I can share my results. All are from my 23andMe results, but I also have AncestryDNA and FtDNA GedMatch kits as well. They are almost the same. Would you mind doing the same?

MDLP K23b
Amerindian: 1.98
Ancestral_Altaic: 6.00
South_Central_Asian: 39.80
Arctic: -
South_Indian: 33.75
Australoid: 0.11
Austronesian: -
Caucasian: -
Archaic_Human: -
East_African: -
East_Siberian: -
European_Early_Farmers:2.36
Khoisan: -
Melano_Polynesian: 0.79
Archaic_African: 0.11
Near_East 3.80
North_African: -
Paleo_Siberian: -
African_Pygmy: -
South_East_Asian: -
Subsaharian: -
Tungus-Altaic: 1.05
European_Hunters_Gatherers: 1.80

MDLP World-22 Admixture Proportions
Pygmy: -
West-Asian: 39.76
North-European-Mesolithic: 3.82
Indo-Tibetan: 1.74
Mesoamerican: 1.48
Arctic-Amerind: -
South-America_Amerind: -
Indian: 33.11
North-Siberean: -
Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic: 0.49
Samoedic: 1.88
Indo-Iranian: 8.50
East-Siberean: -
North-East-European: 5.02
South-African: -
North-Amerind: 0.50
Sub-Saharian: -
East-South-Asian: -
Near_East: 2.01
Melanesian: 1.28
Paleo-Siberian: 0.41
Austronesian: -

MDLP World Admixture Proportions
Caucaus_Parsia: 42.89
Middle_East: 5.47
Indian: 36.98
South_and_West_European: 1.99
Melanesian: 1.01
Sub_Saharian: -
North_and_East_European: 8.70
Arctic_Amerind: 1.31
East_Asian: -
Paleo_African: -
Mesoamerican: 0.55
North_Asian: 1.10

puntDNAL K10 Ancient Admixture Proportions
ASI: 39.35
Sub-Saharan: 0.48
Oceanian: 1.47
Beringian: 2.20
ENF: 9.25
CHG: 38.23
Siberian: 3.70
E_Asian: -
WHG: 5.32
Amerindian: -

HarappaWorld Admixture Proportions
S-Indian: 31.17
Baloch: 43.71
Caucasian: 10.80
NE-Euro: 6.88
SE-Asian: -
Siberian: 0.82
NE-Asian: -
Papuan: 0.66
American: 1.16
Beringian: 0.88
Mediterranean: 0.26
SW-Asian: 3.43
San: -
E-African: -
Pygmy: 0.23
W-African: -

Eurasia K9 ASI Admixture Proportions
SE_Asian: 7.14
Early_Neolithic_Farmers: 4.16
SW_Asian: 8.82
Ancestral_South_Indian: 13.79
Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer: 7.70
WHG: 4.06
Siberian_E_Asian: 2.74
Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer: 51.50
W_African: 0.10

Eurogenes K36 Admixture Proportions
Amerindian0: 0.21
Arabian : -
Armenian: 4.70
Basque: -
Central_African: -
Central_Euro: 0.64
East_African: -
East_Asian: -
East_Balkan: -
East_Central_Asian: -
East_Central_Euro: -
East_Med: -
Eastern_Euro: -
Fennoscandian: -
French: -
Iberian: -
Indo-Chinese: -
Italian: -
Malayan: -
Near_Eastern: -
North_African: -
North_Atlantic: -
North_Caucasian: 9.16
North_Sea: 0.94
Northeast_African: -
Oceanian: -
Omotic: 0.07
Pygmy: -
Siberian: -
South_Asian: 31.29
South_Central_Asian: 51.19
South_Chinese: -
Volga-Ural: 1.80
West_African: -
West_Caucasian: -
West_Med: -

Wait, how can I use the DIY calculators? I was wondering how people were accessing calculators on GedMatch not listed in the options. Would you mind giving me your GedMatch ID? I can give you mine, it makes things a lot easier. I didn't go through all of these calculators, so I guess that I am a bit more South Indian than I thought, but not more than the average high caste Pathan or Punjabi. The thing is, most of the Punjabis, Pathans, and Sindhis doing these tests are from high castes, so that is why they show less South Indian DNA than the average Indian. I bet if the lower caste Pakistanis did these tests, they would have significantly more South Indian DNA. I think that both Eurasia K9 and puntDNAL exaggerate the amount of South Indian DNA present in me. Eurasia only says 13.79, and I am the closest to a Pakistani Pashtun in the oracle; whereas, puntDNAL Ancient K10 gives me 39.35, and I score the closest to a Pakistani Pashtun (Pathan) again. It may be possible that my "Iranian" ancestor may have been a Baloch and not from Larestan, as the tradition states. The Baloch are classified as South Asian on 23andMe. I think that may be why WeGene showed me as being 8.16% Iranian.

Actually many of the Lahore PJL samples were quite similar to South Indians, ironically the PJL samples were more eastern shifted than the East Punjab samples I have seen. I assume those Massalis would score in the same range. My guess is they are the closest to the original IVC populations settled east of the Indus. I notice in Pakistan generally speaking , SI rich populations fall off west of the Indus for some reason. Your results are very typical for the region . It would be nice to see more samples from Pakistani Sindhis and other groups which are not tested much. ALL South Asians have Paniya/South Indian tribal ancestry even Kalash/Nuristani/Khowar populations .

Magnetic
11-20-2016, 07:13 AM
Iranian I doubt but maybe some Pashtun ancestry ?

your gedmatch results seem pretty normal for your ethnicity

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-20-2016, 07:35 AM
Actually many of the Lahore PJL samples were quite similar to South Indians, ironically the PJL samples were more eastern shifted than the East Punjab samples I have seen. I assume those Massalis would score in the same range. My guess is they are the closest to the original IVC populations settled east of the Indus. I notice in Pakistan generally speaking , SI rich populations fall off west of the Indus for some reason. Your results are very typical for the region . It would be nice to see more samples from Pakistani Sindhis and other groups which are not tested much. ALL South Asians have Paniya/South Indian tribal ancestry even Kalash/Nuristani/Khowar populations .

What does PJL stand for? You are right. Most Massalis would score very similar to South Indians. I am sure of this. Thanks for your feedback. Since I am a Rajput, I score less South Indian and more Baloch.


Iranian I doubt but maybe some Pashtun ancestry ?

your gedmatch results seem pretty normal for your ethnicity

Perhaps you're right my friend. What do you score on ftdna?

Magnetic
11-20-2016, 07:37 AM
I havent done ftdna

Pad-i Shah e Hind
11-20-2016, 07:54 AM
I havent done ftdna

Okay.

bol_nat
11-20-2016, 04:47 PM
What does PJL stand for? You are right. Most Massalis would score very similar to South Indians. I am sure of this. Thanks for your feedback. Since I am a Rajput, I score less South Indian and more Baloch.

?

PJL collected samples are part of 1000 Genomes project from Lahore, some are like yours while others score between 50-55% south indian.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yroLfxb7NvkZ63tMJcRm-4yNH8PcXtzhJWm1Hpfr5-8/edit#gid=0

Razib Khan did wrote in his blog about south asians in 1000 genomes. He then divided Lahore samples in to ANI_1, ANI_2, ANI_3, ANI_4. With ANI_1 being least and ANI_4 the most south indian shifted.

http://www.unz.com/gnxp/south-asians-in-the-1000-genomes/?highlight=punjabi+lahore

Dr_McNinja
11-20-2016, 09:58 PM
68-32 FTDNA myOrigins is the strangest result I've seen. It could be because of ancestry similar to the Punjabi Gujjar (HRP0353) friend of bol_nat's. He hasn't done FTDNA (and neither have any Baloch I'm aware of) so I'm guessing the Baloch, Sindhis, and some Punjabi groups are hitting high Central Asian, even higher than Pashtun (on whom the component is based) who get some Anatolian/European instead.

Still strange because the component isn't entirely a Baloch one. It attracts plenty of West Asian/European-like admixture that Baloch normally does not. But I guess the algorithm uses the only component its got.

Also, any haplogroups in India since Neolithic or earlier are going to have many deep branches so there's going to be plenty of L1a subclades that are natively affiliated with any number of ethnic groups extending into Central Asia, albeit as a likely minority.

MonkeyDLuffy
11-21-2016, 01:02 AM
I score very low to none Middle eastern affilation in all calculator in comparison to other Punjabis. I'm from the most eastern part of East punjab, and yet these were my wegenes results.

http://i.imgur.com/BiqaidT.png

khanabadoshi
11-21-2016, 03:35 AM
Kurd man, you make a Turkic K11 calculator and provide no instructions whatsoever? Come on bro, that's not right.

Follow these instructions. It is pretty straightforward.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4879-Tutorial-%96-How-to-use-calculator-files-and-oracle-data-sheets


If a new calculator is released or something I can run your data for you. However, there us nothing as of late and I am a little lazy/busy to run some R code haha.
If you are comfortable you can send me your raw data, and whenever a calculator comes out I will run it. I do this for a decent amount of people already.

pegasus
11-21-2016, 04:15 AM
I think you misread my post. I know I am of a higher caste and my clan within the jatts originate fron the Rajputs. I know that people believe in the caste system and take it seriously. I took offence about your darn masalli comment. If you didnt mean offence by it I apologise. However, we shouldn't be marginalising people because of their castes. If lower caste people accept their treatment its because they have been put in a position where they cannot rise above and prosper.

But I have researched my ancestry and I have researched my dna. I dont have access to my ftdna results right now. But I am 30ish% South Asian. Rest is over 60ish% central asian and middle eastern and European. R2 Y and U4b Mtdna.

I have been to Kashmir and I do know what lower caste people look like and yes they have the features you describe but in our village we treat them with respect. I see in many othets they are treated as outcastes.

I find your comment disgusting about giving daughters to lower castes. If that person has good morals and behaviour and has manners that suit my family, looks nice next to my daughter, has good faith in Islam and can provide for her. I dont see what the issue is. I am not hiding anything, like you said my dna speaks for itself. Ive just progressed from that backward mentality. My family are open minded. My parents were uneducated but alhamdulillah open minded. They put no restriction on us for race or caste, except that they meet the criteria I have outlined for my own daughter.

I am a Muslim first. The Prophets companions were black. Some very dark. They married amongst the arabs. The Prophet was raised by Barakah, a black abyssinian slave girl who he freed. The first person to call to prayer was a very dark Bilal of African heritage. An ex-slave. Before islam they were treated like the low castes in India. Im sorry if that offends you. But thats my position on it.

Kashmir (ie Kashmir valley) does not have a local dalit/chamar population , most of those people you are describing are mainly migrants from Uttar Pradesh/Bihar.

MonkeyDLuffy
11-21-2016, 04:52 AM
Kashmir (ie Kashmir valley) does not have a local dalit/chamar population , most of those people you are describing are mainly migrants from Uttar Pradesh/Bihar.

Even they stay in Jammu. The Migrants don't go in Valley, or to say Muslim majority areas.

vintage_sky
11-21-2016, 04:02 PM
Kashmir (ie Kashmir valley) does not have a local dalit/chamar population , most of those people you are describing are mainly migrants from Uttar Pradesh/Bihar.

Hi yes I am aware of this. There is a migrant population of lower and upper caste people. We do not have many dalits. Other lower caste groups exist who may well have south indian origins.

bol_nat
11-21-2016, 05:13 PM
Kashmir (ie Kashmir valley) does not have a local dalit/chamar population , most of those people you are describing are mainly migrants from Uttar Pradesh/Bihar.

Vintage is from Azad Kashmir, not valley.

Mellifluous
11-21-2016, 09:19 PM
I score very low to none Middle eastern affilation in all calculator in comparison to other Punjabis. I'm from the most eastern part of East punjab, and yet these were my wegenes results.

http://i.imgur.com/BiqaidT.png

I'm pretty sure you have some Central Asian ancestry.

pegasus
11-21-2016, 10:03 PM
Hi yes I am aware of this. There is a migrant population of lower and upper caste people. We do not have many dalits. Other lower caste groups exist who may well have south indian origins.

Not really . Those groups are not South Indian, they were always living in that region. 2 way mixes (for now) of Zagros Farmers and South Asian hunter gatherers and probably direct descendents of Pre Bronze Age populations. Based of the PJL samples, it seems there is a large Dalit/Chamar population in Western Punjab. In Eastern Punjab, from what I read its approx 30-35%, from the PJL samples I can infer its probably larger in Western Punjab. West of the Indus, the population dynamics in Pakistan change considerably. I would like to see way more samples from Sind

vintage_sky
11-22-2016, 10:00 AM
Not really . Those groups are not South Indian, they were always living in that region. 2 way mixes (for now) of Zagros Farmers and South Asian hunter gatherers and probably direct descendents of Pre Bronze Age populations. Based of the PJL samples, it seems there is a large Dalit/Chamar population in Western Punjab. In Eastern Punjab, from what I read its approx 30-35%, from the PJL samples I can infer its probably larger in Western Punjab. West of the Indus, the population dynamics in Pakistan change considerably. I would like to see way more samples from Sind

Hi I am from Azad Kashmir. I was referring specifically to the Dalit population. We have a lot of lower caste muhajir here who during the turn of partition took home in Azad Kashmir for purposes of employment, especially after the dogars control diminished and the rajas started to sell of their lands to the local populations of Jatt Behns etc. etc.

You are right in what you say about these groups are not all South Indian.

Sapporo
11-25-2016, 08:05 PM
I score very low to none Middle eastern affilation in all calculator in comparison to other Punjabis. I'm from the most eastern part of East punjab, and yet these were my wegenes results.

http://i.imgur.com/BiqaidT.png

Interesting that you get Uzbek bro and I don't. I end up getting slightly higher Euro instead. Half my ancestry is from far Eastern Punjab too.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11832&d=1474923189

MonkeyDLuffy
11-26-2016, 07:59 PM
Interesting that you get Uzbek bro and I don't. I end up getting slightly higher Euro instead. Half my ancestry is from far Eastern Punjab too.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11832&d=1474923189

Even your other side Ludhiana is not far either. We usually score similar to same amount of euro and siberian (ANE levels). But on wegenes I got uzbek which was a surprise.

Reza
11-26-2016, 08:25 PM
Even your other side Ludhiana is not far either. We usually score similar to same amount of euro and siberian (ANE levels). But on wegenes I got uzbek which was a surprise.

Do you think there is a marked difference between western areas of historic Punjab and the eastern areas?

MonkeyDLuffy
11-26-2016, 09:13 PM
Do you think there is a marked difference between western areas of historic Punjab and the eastern areas?

Not that I can think of, just thought georgraphically it would make difference, but Haryana and Rajasthan are way south and east of my area and yet people from there have highest west eurasian affinity. My family is not native to east punjab anyway, like I have said in past.

Reza
11-26-2016, 10:01 PM
Do we have any non jatt samples from Haryana? Pre partition was there a lot of mobility between different areas of Punjab to account for geography making little difference? In Bengal, generally speaking there was very little movement.

khanabadoshi
11-27-2016, 02:14 PM
Do we have any non jatt samples from Haryana? Pre partition was there a lot of mobility between different areas of Punjab to account for geography making little difference? In Bengal, generally speaking there was very little movement.

That is a good question. I wonder if there are non-Jatt Harayanvi samples.
As far as mobility is concerned, my grandfather's family lived in Gurdaspur for a time, but no one ventured further East than that, at least that I am aware of. I would assume there was movement to cities like Lahore, Sialkot, Gujuranwala, Amritsar, Ludhiana, Jalandhar from the areas surrounding those cities. However, I think generally-speaking people stayed put.

heksindhi
11-29-2016, 06:56 PM
You may very well turn out to have actual Iranian ancestry based on your documented family tree. However, I wouldn't place too much faith in the WeGene ancestry analysis other than as an indication of genetic similarity. For example, my results:

99.87% Other Asia
63.16% Southern Asia ?
36.70% Iranian
0.01% Others

0.13% Others

I am a pakistani sindhi with no known iranian ancestry.

Magnetic
11-29-2016, 07:17 PM
wegene has just bad sampling for west eurasians. it doesnt mean that you guys are iranian . wegene just takes Iranian as a west asian component reference . europeans get also some Iranian there .

Kurd
11-30-2016, 06:28 AM
You may very well turn out to have actual Iranian ancestry based on your documented family tree. However, I wouldn't place too much faith in the WeGene ancestry analysis other than as an indication of genetic similarity. For example, my results:

99.87% Other Asia
63.16% Southern Asia ?
36.70% Iranian
0.01% Others

0.13% Others

I am a pakistani sindhi with no known iranian ancestry.

The reason you score such high Iranian is because their component maximizes in Kurds and Baloch. One of my Iraqi Kurd samples scored 74 or 75% Iranian and an Iranian Baloch sample scored 99% Iranian.

Incidentally, Sindhi is a fairly large Kurd tribe in Iraq. The Sindhi Kurds:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/iaoj.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/sindhis-of-kurdistan/amp/

Sapporo
11-30-2016, 08:59 PM
The reason you score such high Iranian is because their component maximizes in Kurds and Baloch. One of my Iraqi Kurd samples scored 74 or 75% Iranian and an Iranian Baloch sample scored 99% Iranian.

Incidentally, Sindhi is a fairly large Kurd tribe in Iraq. The Sindhi Kurds:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/iaoj.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/sindhis-of-kurdistan/amp/

I believe his results on other admixture calculators also suggested that his ancestry was closer to that of someone who is half Baloch/half Sindhi rather than fully Sindhi. Although, he has noted that his ancestry is full Sindhi to his knowledge. However, if there is some Baloch ancestry down the line, then the high Iranian on WEGenes makes sense. I believe many Pakistani Sindhis do have some amount of Baloch ancestry.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8615-DIY-K10-Test&p=189903&viewfull=1#post189903

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8615-DIY-K10-Test&p=192002&viewfull=1#post192002

His Harappa results linked above are especially indicative of Baloch ancestry.

High Baloch (near 50%), lower South Asian than most NW South Asians. Slightly elevated Caucasian. However, what sticks out the most is the SW Asian score of 4.9% and W African score of 2.48%. Highly suggestive of Baloch/Makrani ancestry.

1 Baloch 47.01
2 S-Indian 23.85
3 Caucasian 13.23
4 NE-Euro 5.68
5 SW-Asian 4.9
6 W-African 2.48
7 Beringian 1.15
8 NE-Asian 1.11
9 American 0.37
10 SE-Asian 0.22
11 E-African 0.01

topfield
12-01-2016, 02:23 PM
I believe his results on other admixture calculators also suggested that his ancestry was closer to that of someone who is half Baloch/half Sindhi rather than fully Sindhi. Although, he has noted that his ancestry is full Sindhi to his knowledge. However, if there is some Baloch ancestry down the line, then the high Iranian on WEGenes makes sense. I believe many Pakistani Sindhis do have some amount of Baloch ancestry.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8615-DIY-K10-Test&p=189903&viewfull=1#post189903

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8615-DIY-K10-Test&p=192002&viewfull=1#post192002

His Harappa results linked above are especially indicative of Baloch ancestry.

High Baloch (near 50%), lower South Asian than most NW South Asians. Slightly elevated Caucasian. However, what sticks out the most is the SW Asian score of 4.9% and W African score of 2.48%. Highly suggestive of Baloch/Makrani ancestry.

1 Baloch 47.01
2 S-Indian 23.85
3 Caucasian 13.23
4 NE-Euro 5.68
5 SW-Asian 4.9
6 W-African 2.48
7 Beringian 1.15
8 NE-Asian 1.11
9 American 0.37
10 SE-Asian 0.22
11 E-African 0.01

There was a Sindhi Hindu member here. I dont recall his username now.
Do you know or remember how heksindhi compares to that Sindhi Hindu member?

Reza
12-01-2016, 02:41 PM
Pakistani Punjabi (Arain / Pahari) scores similar 12pc Iranian but no know foreign ancestry.

12815

MonkeyDLuffy
12-03-2016, 02:31 AM
There was a Sindhi Hindu member here. I dont recall his username now.
Do you know or remember how heksindhi compares to that Sindhi Hindu member?

There are some Sindhi Hindu samples with "Lohana, Bhatia" surnames, they score similar except this user has more baloch or baloch like ancestry.

sultan
10-19-2017, 08:44 PM
Does a person have a specific area for hundreds of years may have a role in that

itsmrhoax
03-02-2018, 07:35 PM
Oh yes, if it was through your father's mother's line it wouldn't affect your haplogroups. Perhaps you should test your father. The ASI/ASE scores vary a lot from calculator to calculator, so it's best to compare ratios only between results of the same calculator and not cross-calculator. Would you mind posting some Gedrosia, puntDNAL, MDLP calculator results? I have a half Rajput half Kashmiri we could compare you too. In fact, we have a lot of S/SC Asian and Iranian members here, so you have a lot to compare to. You were asking about Kaido, he is Pakistani Pashtun. We have some DIY calculators that aren't on Gedmatch like Iran N K6 and ANE K6 that are newer and might provide a better comparison. If you know how to use DIY calculators give it a try.

Also, L1a1 doesn't seem to be specifically a South Indian marker, it is seen in significant numbers in Southern Pakistan (aka Sindh) and Western India (aka Punjab, Rajasthan, Gujurat). Thus, I don't think it is a very surprising haplogroup if your father's line is Rajput. That being said, users like Parasar are much more well-versed in South Asian haplogroups -- perhaps he will chime in. I'll see what I can dig up about your mtDNA.


My 23andme results:

South Asian 94.9%
Middle Eastern & North African 1.9%
European 1.6%
East Asian & Native American 0.9%
Unassigned 0.7%

My FTDNA results:

If you want to see specific gedmatch calculators for comparison, feel free to ask. I'm sure others will post theirs too to give you an idea.

If you want to see specific gedmatch calculators for comparison, feel free to ask. I'm sure others will post theirs too to give you an idea.[/QUOTE]

That's so crazy how one website shows you like 95% South Asian and the other only 28%?? What's actually the more accurate? I'm so new to this so this is quite confusing to me.

poi
03-04-2018, 06:58 AM
That's so crazy how one website shows you like 95% South Asian and the other only 28%?? What's actually the more accurate? I'm so new to this so this is quite confusing to me.

My dumbed down understanding is that the authors of these calculators(pros and amateurs alike) design these components based on public/academic data they have from various relevant populations. And "South Asian" could mean West Eurasian or not. South Asian have high Ancient North Eurasian, as well as significant SouthEurasian. And mix East Eurasian from the North and Northeast, so you can have every goddamn component imaginable be labeled South Asian. Most calcs, however, restrict South Asian as just exclusively South Asian, so they approximate Ancient South Indian.

itsmrhoax
03-08-2018, 12:38 AM
My dumbed down understanding is that the authors of these calculators(pros and amateurs alike) design these components based on public/academic data they have from various relevant populations. And "South Asian" could mean West Eurasian or not. South Asian have high Ancient North Eurasian, as well as significant SouthEurasian. And mix East Eurasian from the North and Northeast, so you can have every goddamn component imaginable be labeled South Asian. Most calcs, however, restrict South Asian as just exclusively South Asian, so they approximate Ancient South Indian.

Is for eg FTDNA having less of South Asian and more of a breakdown compared to 23andme having broadly "South Asian" any indication of amateur-ity in research and presentation? Does this make FTDNA better for SA-sians?

poi
03-08-2018, 01:07 AM
Is for eg FTDNA having less of South Asian and more of a breakdown compared to 23andme having broadly "South Asian" any indication of amateur-ity in research and presentation? Does this make FTDNA better for SA-sians?

Good question, but keep in mind that 23andme is also (going to) breaking down by COUNTRY, which FTDNA does not do.

But those are gimmicks for us really. Country breakdown is really useful for European/African Americans and Americans are the main customers for 23andme and FTDNA.

Your choice will come down to -- do you want to use your raw data in old/current calculators? If so, either go with FTDNA or Ancestry. If you do not care, go with 23andme.

Another thing perhaps that might be relevant -- only 23andme gives your Y-dna and Mtdna haplogroups. If you care about your Ydna or Mtdna haplogroups, get 23andme.