PDA

View Full Version : Haplogroup R1A1 in north africa



Darko
11-15-2016, 11:07 PM
hi everyone , I need some help to find how R1a1 haplogroup is introduced in Tunisia and north africa in general, this haplogroup is very rare in this region and is its presence must be linked to a people or an event, I'm doing some research on the subject and I found that the best candidates are : vandals who came from eastern Germany and Founded a kingdom in Tunisia, romans, byzantines, arabs and turkish, so if anyone have remarks, historical information or ideas about this subject it will be most welcome.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-16-2016, 05:27 AM
hi everyone , I need some help to find how R1a1 haplogroup is introduced in Tunisia and north africa in general, this haplogroup is very rare in this region and is its presence must be linked to a people or an event, I'm doing some research on the subject and I found that the best candidates are : vandals who came from eastern Germany and Founded a kingdom in Tunisia, romans, byzantines, arabs and turkish, so if anyone have remarks, historical information or ideas about this subject it will be most welcome.

I'm no classical scholar or expert in DNA for that matter, but the first thing that sprang to mind is the history of Carthage and as you say the Vandals, even the Romans, but I suppose later historic events and conflicts could have played a part too. John

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUtNHtwazQAhUDPRoKHa2PAboQFggbMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVandal s&usg=AFQjCNFfZRbq0c7Za71G9rySE86j8oaSEg&sig2=Pq0YyzJhg9474xDTCxZZZQ

kikkk
11-16-2016, 09:57 AM
There is another Tunisian poster on this forum bearing Y-DNA R1a though his subclade is Z93
http://www.anthrogenica.com/member.php?6864-Mamun

kikkk
11-16-2016, 09:59 AM
hi everyone , I need some help to find how R1a1 haplogroup is introduced in Tunisia and north africa in general, this haplogroup is very rare in this region and is its presence must be linked to a people or an event, I'm doing some research on the subject and I found that the best candidates are : vandals who came from eastern Germany and Founded a kingdom in Tunisia, romans, byzantines, arabs and turkish, so if anyone have remarks, historical information or ideas about this subject it will be most welcome.

Hello Darko!
Did you look for your Y-DNA matches at FTDNA, they may be helping you.

Darko
11-16-2016, 10:17 AM
[QUOTE=kikkk;197768]Hello Darko!
Did you look for your Y-DNA matches at FTDNA, they may be helping you.[/QUO[

my subclade is very very rare, i don't have matche at any level of str result (12,25 and 37) i have only two distant matches at big y result one from belarus ( TMRCA 3900 years at yfull tree) and one egyptian coptic (TMRCA 7300 years at yfull tree)

11-16-2016, 12:43 PM
Interesting, Vandals or Germanic Roman soldiers, or here is another one a victim of the slave trade conducted by the "Barbary pirates"

Jean M
11-16-2016, 08:06 PM
my subclade is very very rare, i don't have matche at any level of str result (12,25 and 37) i have only two distant matches at big y result one from belarus ( TMRCA 3900 years at yfull tree) and one egyptian coptic (TMRCA 7300 years at yfull tree)

The man from Belarus noted on Y-Full is in the subclade R-YP1276, together with a sample from Tunisia. So if you are negative for YP1276, then your best match would be the Egyptian sample of R-YP1272 on Y-Full, which I presume is the one you describe as an Egyptian Copt. Y-Full calculates that your haplogroup was formed 14,100 years ago, and the time to most recent common ancestor of the samples they have is 7,300 years ago. That would fit with a Neolithic arrival in North Africa. The Copts are the descendants of Ancient Egyptians. So it seems to fit.

I cannot explain the sample from Belarus in that case. But given that far more Europeans than North Africans have been DNA tested and even so there is only one sample from Belarus known, but three from North Africa (including you), R-YP1272 is looking like a highly unusual North African subclade unconnected to the movement of Vandals etc. It could be the equivalent of R1b-V88, which seems to have been caught up in the development of farming in the Near East and then spread to North Africa with farmers.

Darko
11-16-2016, 09:20 PM
The man from Belarus noted on Y-Full is in the subclade R-YP1276, together with a sample from Tunisia. So if you are negative for YP1276, then your best match would be the Egyptian sample of R-YP1272 on Y-Full, which I presume is the one you describe as an Egyptian Copt. Y-Full calculates that your haplogroup was formed 14,100 years ago, and the time to most recent common ancestor of the samples they have is 7,300 years ago. That would fit with a Neolithic arrival in North Africa. The Copts are the descendants of Ancient Egyptians. So it seems to fit.

I cannot explain the sample from Belarus in that case. But given that far more Europeans than North Africans have been DNA tested and even so there is only one sample from Belarus known, but three from North Africa (including you), R-YP1272 is looking like a highly unusual North African subclade unconnected to the movement of Vandals etc. It could be the equivalent of R1b-V88, which seems to have been caught up in the development of farming in the Near East and then spread to North Africa with farmers.

I am the tunisian on yfull tree and i am positive for YP1276 like the belarusian and I form with him a new and young subclade (YP1276) under YP1272 ( see yfull tree:https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1272/) also there are others members in R1A1 project ( a russian, a Czech and two italians) predicted to belong to YP1276 subclade

Jean M
11-16-2016, 09:32 PM
I am the tunisian in yfull tree and i am positive for YP1276 like the belarusian and I form with him a new and young subclade (YP1276) under YP1272 ( see yfull tree:https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1272/) also there are others members in R1A1 project ( a russian, a Czech and two italians) predicted to belong to YP1276 subclade

That does change the picture. Now we have three Slavs, two Italians and you.

Darko
11-16-2016, 09:39 PM
That does change the picture. Now we have three Slavs, two Italians and you.

Maybe there are also Two Greek Cypriots, this subclade is very rare and very geographically dispersed hence the difficulty of predicting its origin