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Ann Turner
11-23-2016, 11:26 AM
FTDNA is apparently out of the loop now.

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/faq/about-project/

Helix is a start-up company doing exome sequencing. Their business model is "sequence once, query often." The partnership was mentioned recently

https://www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemlee/helix-announces-debut

I am baffled about how the Genographic Project gets the data it uses from an exome sequence.

JamesKane
11-23-2016, 12:25 PM
Helix is offering something they call Exome+ testing. After about an hour of searching there weren't an hits on what details there may be to the test.

https://www.helix.com/platform-consent

Since Exome testing is an enrichment targeted sequencing process, it stands to reason additional regions the Genographic Project was interested could have been added. This speculation is supported by their FAQ: "The genetic experts at Helix have identified other important information-rich areas to sequence (hence, Exome+)."

https://www.helix.com/support/about-helix#about-helix-8-full

We likely won't know until 2017 when someone purchases access to their raw data though.

ArmandoR1b
11-23-2016, 01:10 PM
The Nat Geo site is advertising it now too

https://shop.nationalgeographic.com/product/genographic-2.0-kits/geno-2.0-next-generation-genographic-helix-dna-ancestry-kit--u.s.-delivery?gsk&code=MR21432

Geno 2.0 Next Generation Genographic Helix DNA Ancestry Kit, U.S. Delivery


DNA discovery powered by National Geographic and Helix.

National Geographic has been charting the unknown for over a century. And, we’re exploring the next great frontier—your DNA story—through a new partnership. After you place your order for Geno 2.0, you’ll receive a DNA collection kit from Helix and you will have to create an online account with National Geographic and Helix. Once you’ve been sequenced, you can access your DNA insights through Helix and National Geographic for years to come. Helix is more than DNA sequencing—it’s your destination for DNA discovery.

Our revolutionary Geno 2.0 Next Generation test has been enhanced to offer the most up to date ancestry available and now has the following features improved over the original Geno 2.0:

• Improved ancestral results using Next Generation Sequencing

• More accurate regional ancestry—based on more than double the number of regions and 60 reference populations

• Improved maternal and paternal haplogroup calls, and 20 new ancestral stories

• Access to join Helix’s ecosystem of DNA apps

Introducing the next generation of our Genographic Project Participation Kit. This new DNA test—brought to you by National Geographic in cooperation with Helix—uses cutting-edge technology to give you the richest ancestry information available. We tell the story of 500 years and past. National Geographic designed Geno Next Gen based on the new technologies and insights that emerged since the launch of the Genographic Project more than ten years ago. Our new kit uses an exclusive set of more than 300,000 DNA markers that have been specifically selected to provide unprecedented ancestry-related information, unique to each individual.

Finally a fix for the false positive Y-DNA results from the previous version of Geno 2.0 NG.

Afshar
11-23-2016, 02:31 PM
So if I understand correctly you pay for the information generated out of your data.
No doubt that you then, as a customer, cant collect your raw data and analyze for yourself?
It sounds like they want to incorporate a technique in the genealogy field, which is originally designed for other purposes.

ArmandoR1b
11-23-2016, 06:42 PM
So if I understand correctly you pay for the information generated out of your data.
No doubt that you then, as a customer, cant collect your raw data and analyze for yourself?
It sounds like they want to incorporate a technique in the genealogy field, which is originally designed for other purposes.

For the Geno 2.0 Next Generation Genographic Helix DNA Ancestry Kit they supposedly are trying to find a way to provide the raw data


How do I access the raw analytical data generated from my DNA sample?

For Geno 2.0 Next Gen Helix co-branded kit Participants, we are currently exploring options to be able to make this available to you.


https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/faq/about-project/

Afshar
11-23-2016, 06:53 PM
For the Geno 2.0 Next Generation Genographic Helix DNA Ancestry Kit they supposedly are trying to find a way to provide the raw data



https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/faq/about-project/
They will probably filter out relevant snps, while they have more complete information of your Genome non-accesible to you as a customer. I dont think 150$ is a reasonable (too low)price for the test offered, unless they will use your data for marketing purposes.

GoldenHind
11-23-2016, 07:19 PM
The Nat Geo site is advertising it now too


Geno 2.0 Next Generation Genographic Helix DNA Ancestry Kit, U.S. Delivery



Finally a fix for the false positive Y-DNA results from the previous version of Geno 2.0 NG.

I hope you're right about that. There has been an enormous amount of confusion created by some of their false positives. I also hope they add some of the SNPs which weren't tested in Geno 2 (such as R-P312). Although it remains to be seen, I am not very optimistic on either count.

Amerijoe
11-23-2016, 08:54 PM
After shifting through the limited info concerning Helix, I must comment on this new business model. From what has been mentioned, Helix's test cost could be around $500. This in essence is a lost leader which if marketed correctly should produce increased profits by it's a' la carte approach. Helix exome sequencing, gives users the ability to target areas of interest. Your sequence is stored by them and is immediately available upon request should other points of interest arise. Geno 2NG is using their own selected targets for ancestry research using this approach.

Does having your DNA stored in the cloud make you closer to Heaven? :angel: If you want to live forever, this is a better route than having your head frozen. :snow:

Saetro
11-23-2016, 08:55 PM
It sounds like they want to incorporate a technique in the genealogy field, which is originally designed for other purposes.

That's how genetic genealogy started.
We amateurs hounded academic geneticists to apply their tests to our needs.
Separately, Alan Savin and the (Mac)Donald clan applied academic techniques to get the genealogical information they wanted.

Saetro
11-23-2016, 08:58 PM
I hope you're right about that. There has been an enormous amount of confusion created by some of their false positives. I also hope they add some of the SNPs which weren't tested in Geno 2 (such as R-P312). Although it remains to be seen, I am not very optimistic on either count.

Every new drug has claims of no or minimal side effects.
Problems become evident with time.
Let's see.

Stellaritic
11-23-2016, 09:44 PM
Here is what I have been able to find on one of their (many) partners website :

We recently announced a collaboration with Helix, a personal genomics company, to build clinician-approved genetic testing applications for proactive health. These health "apps" combine Helix's DNA sequencing platform and Invitae's clinical expertise.

Healthy individuals who utilize the Helix consumer platform will be able to select health applications from Invitae pending approval by a clinician. Invitae will then provide a full interpretation of the results, with a focus on actionable findings related to cancer and cardiovascular disease.

The Helix apps will complement Invitae’s existing menu of high-quality genetic testing, which will continue to be based in Invitae’s own College of American Pathologists (CAP)-accredited and Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments (CLIA)-certified clinical diagnostic laboratory.

Invitae’s health-related scans on the Helix platform are expected to be available in 2017.


I think they're going to follow ftDNA's business model and will probably let us select SNP panels offered by their partners .

Amerijoe
11-24-2016, 03:53 AM
Here it is in a more concise statement.

http://cruwys.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/helix-offers-geno-20-test-app-with.html

Afshar
11-24-2016, 05:19 AM
That's how genetic genealogy started.
We amateurs hounded academic geneticists to apply their tests to our needs.
Separately, Alan Savin and the (Mac)Donald clan applied academic techniques to get the genealogical information they wanted.

Yes but sequencing genes is useless, you would want either snps or full chromosome data. Now you have the genes and the rest of the chromosome is something they cannot test.

ArmandoR1b
11-24-2016, 02:31 PM
I hope you're right about that. There has been an enormous amount of confusion created by some of their false positives. I also hope they add some of the SNPs which weren't tested in Geno 2 (such as R-P312). Although it remains to be seen, I am not very optimistic on either count.

They are the ones advertising "Improved maternal and paternal haplogroup calls" but I can't see anyone doing as bad of a job as NatGeo with the first version of Geno 2.0 NextGen especially when Illumina is one of the investors. We have both been involved in many of the threads on about false positives so we both have been aware the headache that they have caused. Since Illumina is an investor I do not see how P312 would not be included. The Geno 2.0 Helix test is going to have 10,000 Y-DNA SNPs and the Geno 2.0 NextGen only had about that many that were actually useful that weren't duplicates due to being synonymous.

vettor
11-24-2016, 05:29 PM
They are the ones advertising "Improved maternal and paternal haplogroup calls" but I can't see anyone doing as bad of a job as NatGeo with the first version of Geno 2.0 NextGen especially when Illumina is one of the investors. We have both been involved in many of the threads on about false positives so we both have been aware the headache that they have caused. Since Illumina is an investor I do not see how P312 would not be included. The Geno 2.0 Helix test is going to have 10,000 Y-DNA SNPs and the Geno 2.0 NextGen only had about that many that were actually useful that weren't duplicates due to being synonymous.

the question should be raised is - since natgeno ( this version and previous one ) use Ftdna Labs, then who is to blame for these missing/false etc markers?

I used the previous version of nat geno ( and got positive and negative markers with no false so far ) and was noted by natgeno correctly for my ydna and mtdna markers , clearly years ahead of ftdna ................my sister did her DNa last month on the new version of nat geno ( don't ask me why she used them ) and again her mtdna is correct

Shouldn't the labs be to blame?

ArmandoR1b
11-24-2016, 08:37 PM
the question should be raised is - since natgeno ( this version and previous one ) use Ftdna Labs, then who is to blame for these missing/false etc markers?

I used the previous version of nat geno ( and got positive and negative markers with no false so far ) and was noted by natgeno correctly for my ydna and mtdna markers , clearly years ahead of ftdna ................my sister did her DNa last month on the new version of nat geno ( don't ask me why she used them ) and again her mtdna is correct

Shouldn't the labs be to blame?
It's over. Move on. There is nothing to gain by dwelling on who was to blame. The important part is that the results from the Geno 2.0 Next Generation Helix test should be reliable.

Amerijoe
11-25-2016, 01:17 AM
Here is a post to the ISSOG Group.

The basic situation here seems to be that a sequencer is being sold that is providing a smaller chip now which costs less to process. The DNA expert at one of the forensics lab which tests a similar combo of autosomal-X and Y made reference to me of the need to keep things brief because of the smaller chip they will be using. The testing from the Genographic Project has consistently reserved about 10,000 slots for Y-DNA, but it is not really necessary to use 10,000 if one restricts the testing to a few items per subgroup, and the forensics people do not need to test all the known Y subgroups. In the investigative tree I assembled at the end of last year (mostly now merged into the ISOGG tree as investigative items), there were about 5000 subgroups.



Ray Banks

__._,_.___
Posted by: <[email protected]>

jatt2016
11-27-2016, 01:06 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but at this point in time the new Helix kit is only available to customers in USA. For the rest of the world it will still be FTDNA.

FTDA still remains their partner along with Helix. Screenshots from genographic site pasted below :

https://i.gyazo.com/b53ccc0b02b6639962b0f1bbe1a4d9f5.png
https://i.gyazo.com/1eb3d4ed6da0e0945933e5ab612ef5fb.png

Ann Turner
11-27-2016, 02:19 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but at this point in time the new Helix kit is only available to customers in USA. For the rest of the world it will still be FTDNA.

Good point. Now I wonder if there are limited quantities of the custom Geno 2 Next Generation chip.

jatt2016
11-27-2016, 02:37 PM
Good point. Now I wonder if there are limited quantities of the custom Geno 2 Next Generation chip.

Yes, I was about to order one and as soon as I added it to cart, the Helix monogram disappeared. I got wary and did some further browsing to find out that its only available to USA customers. FTDNA and Helix are the two laboratories where they send the samples for testing.