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A Norfolk L-M20
11-23-2016, 05:43 PM
I've updated maps of my documentary ancestry. Both of these maps are modified by myself from originals by openstreetmap.org copyright (http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright). They illustrate the ancestral events of my father's and mother's family history as recorded on my Gramps genealogical database. These events are generally baptisms, marriages, burials, census, etc. The more events in a parish, the larger the marker.

First my Father: 116 recorded direct ancestors. Three of his grandparents were born in Norfolk. One in London.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5732/31055283332_fd8d5a184d_b.jpg


Second my Mother: 134 recorded direct ancestors. All four of her grandparents were born in Norfolk. All of her recorded ancestry has been found in East Anglia. Particularly clustered in east Norfolk.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5645/30391533473_ac95cedea0_b.jpg

My autosomal DNA in past tests:

23andMe result before phasing (spec mode):
100% European broken into
94% Northwestern Europe
3% Southern Europe
3% unassigned European

Broken down further to:
32% British & Irish
27% French & German
7% Scandinavian
29% Broadly NW European
0.5% Iberian
2.4% Broadly South European

23andMe result after phasing with one parent (spec mode):
100% European
96% Northwestern European
1.8% Southern European
2.2% Broadly European

Broken down further to:
37% British & Irish
22% French & German
1% Scandinavian
36% Broadly NW European
1.8% Broadly Southern European

FT-DNA Family Finder My Origins.
100% European

Broken down further to:
36% British Isles
32% Southern Europe
26% Scandinavia
6% Eastern Europe

Question. Will the Living DNA make the usual mistake of confusing Background Ancestry (Population), with Recent 300 years ancestry (Family)? How will my results fall with reference to their POBI based data set?

I can't wait until January! (Edited thanks John)

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-23-2016, 07:50 PM
July? Your lot don't travel far. I'm surprised they made it across the North Sea. :) John

ADW_1981
11-23-2016, 08:15 PM
Yes, that seems unusual that all your family stayed in one area. My ancestors are scattered all around England, from Cornwall and Gloucestershire in the west, to Kent and as north east as Lincolnshire/Yorkshire. I believe I also have Welsh connections as I have found surnames Thomas(possibly Welsh), and Welsh->Welch on my mother's side recently. Checked the LivingDNA site and it seems they received my kit (yay).

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-23-2016, 08:33 PM
Nearly all mine are up and down the Welsh Border, so not exactly spread all over Britain. I will be interested to see if the results take me to other places. John

LauraHolland
11-23-2016, 10:15 PM
Norfolk is a very self sufficient area, you don't really need to leave, lots of arable land, and lots of coastline, don't forget that Norwich was the second biggest city to London (and one of the most important) pre industrial revolution.

A Norfolk L-M20
11-24-2016, 02:39 AM
July? Your lot don't travel far. I'm surprised they made it across the North Sea. :) John

Ha ha, no they really didn't ever travel far, particularly on my mother's side. All East Anglian with recorded lines back to the 1690s. Overwhelmingly East Norfolk, north of the River Yare, up against the marshes of what were once a sea estuary. Very much the front, front-line of what many regard as Anglo-Saxon and Danish immigration. Almost totally Norfolk, except for one line that crosses the border into the Sutton Hoo area of East Suffolk - and that line carried a local surname that according to that reference dictionary that we were looking at, is Old Scandinavian in origin. I'm afraid my mother's tree does conform a little bit to the Norfolk stereotype, with instances of second and third cousins marrying in that dense cluster of East Norfolk.

Here is my mother's 23andMe results in spec mode:

European 100% Broken into:

NW European 93% Broken into:
British & Irish 36%
French & German 13%
Scandinavian 4%
The rest, broadly NW European 40%

South European 2%
Sub Saharan African 0.1%
East African <0.1%


However, my late father's side is a bit more travelled. Over the past several generations, I'd say only around 70% Norfolk, with older lines mainly coming out of Oxfordshire, and another in the East Midlands just west of Peterborough. The Oxfordshire / Berkshire line also carries that Asian Y-DNA, that I think arrived in Southern England around the Medieval.

Anyway, despite that, FT-DNA scored you more Scandinavian than we get! Then there's that enigmatic Southern European (enhanced Neolithic Farmer) that we SE English seem to get. I also have a mystery line. One of my G.G.G grandfather's, a harrow weaver by the surname Shawers (Shores?) appeared in C19 London, with unknown origins.

Looking forward to JANUARY.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-24-2016, 06:54 AM
Ha ha, no they really didn't ever travel far, particularly on my mother's side. All East Anglian with recorded lines back to the 1690s. Overwhelmingly East Norfolk, north of the River Yare, up against the marshes of what were once a sea estuary. Very much the front, front-line of what many regard as Anglo-Saxon and Danish immigration. Almost totally Norfolk, except for one line that crosses the border into the Sutton Hoo area of East Suffolk - and that line carried a local surname that according to that reference dictionary that we were looking at, is Old Scandinavian in origin. I'm afraid my mother's tree does conform a little bit to the Norfolk stereotype, with instances of second and third cousins marrying in that dense cluster of East Norfolk.

Here is my mother's 23andMe results in spec mode:

European 100% Broken into:

NW European 93% Broken into:
British & Irish 36%
French & German 13%
Scandinavian 4%
The rest, broadly NW European 40%

South European 2%
Sub Saharan African 0.1%
East African <0.1%


However, my late father's side is a bit more travelled. Over the past several generations, I'd say only around 70% Norfolk, with older lines mainly coming out of Oxfordshire, and another in the East Midlands just west of Peterborough. The Oxfordshire / Berkshire line also carries that Asian Y-DNA, that I think arrived in Southern England around the Medieval.

Anyway, despite that, FT-DNA scored you more Scandinavian than we get! Then there's that enigmatic Southern European (enhanced Neolithic Farmer) that we SE English seem to get. I also have a mystery line. One of my G.G.G grandfather's, a harrow weaver by the surname Shawers (Shores?) appeared in C19 London, with unknown origins.

Looking forward to JANUARY.

As you know from other threads, in relation to my Y Dna there could be an outside possibility of a link to Brittany or Normandy. I would think it would be money well spent if my results could give some indication of whether it's N/B or A/S but I doubt they would be able to do that. :) John

AnnieD
11-24-2016, 05:55 PM
Ha ha, no they really didn't ever travel far, particularly on my mother's side. All East Anglian with recorded lines back to the 1690s. Overwhelmingly East Norfolk, north of the River Yare, up against the marshes of what were once a sea estuary...


However, my late father's side is a bit more travelled. Over the past several generations, I'd say only around 70% Norfolk, with older lines mainly coming out of Oxfordshire, and another in the East Midlands just west of Peterborough. The Oxfordshire / Berkshire line also carries that Asian Y-DNA, that I think arrived in Southern England around the Medieval.

Even though you are not perfectly 100% from 1 region in England, you are pretty darn close. ;) Would you consider sending your heritage background to this testing co. after you get your results to serve as perhaps a control test "specimen" or addition to their samples database?

I still think that it's a travesty that POBI somehow missed you when they came through small or rural villages in England. How many regionalized testers who also blog about their genetic genealogy results are out there? :) Cool map with your latest entry on parent's ancestral locales!

ADW_1981
11-24-2016, 06:05 PM
I'm expecting a heavy concentration in Cornwall, but also Kent area in my results. I would assume Norfolk will get most of his in Norfolk and some shading in Afghanistan for his Y-line. Just kidding ;)

My dodecad 3 results were almost a perfect fit to the combined Cornwall + Kent sample which, I assume is British_Isles. I could be wrong though.

1 British_Isles @ 1.475170
2 British @ 2.063311
3 Cornwall @ 2.573445
4 Kent @ 2.820810
5 Irish @ 3.789289
6 Dutch @ 4.999167
7 Mixed_Germanic @ 6.839759
8 Norwegian @ 10.461229
9 Orkney @ 12.224218
10 Orcadian @ 12.594086
11 Swedish @ 13.138394
12 Argyll @ 13.184555
13 N._European @ 13.922153
14 CEU @ 14.635563
15 French @ 18.164642
16 German @ 18.813988
17 French @ 19.182272
18 French_Basque @ 27.861357
19 Slovenian @ 32.264839
20 FIN @ 32.643284

A Norfolk L-M20
11-24-2016, 06:07 PM
Even though you are not perfectly 100% from 1 region in England, you are pretty darn close. ;) Would you consider sending your heritage background to this testing co. after you get your results to serve as perhaps a control test "specimen" or addition to their samples database?

I still think that it's a travesty that POBI somehow missed you when they came through small or rural villages in England. How many regionalized testers who also blog about their genetic genealogy results are out there? :) Cool map with your latest entry on parent's ancestral locales!

To be honest Annie, I really don't think that I'm at all rare - only as a tester with commercial DNA companies. I really do believe there are thousands of people even in East Anglia that have equally or more deeply rooted local ancestry - and that East Anglia is not alone. I understand that POBI found plenty of samples with "four grandparents born within 50 miles" in rural East Anglia. Was it 140? Last year in the local Family History Society, I chatted to the elderly librarian who was a long term genealogist, and had traced a wide ancestry, further back than mine - yet all of his ancestors were in Norfolk.

It's about rural heritage. A lot of testers from Europe have urban family histories, and therefore more likely known admixture. Even in East Anglia - the immigrants such as late medieval Dutch and French protestants went to Norwich, not to the countryside. Then their descendants merged into the national bourgeoisie. Meanwhile, local countryside, relatively little admixture. Just as early European settlers of the Americas were usually from towns and ports, or had skills and trades.

A Norfolk L-M20
11-24-2016, 11:02 PM
I'm expecting a heavy concentration in Cornwall, but also Kent area in my results. I would assume Norfolk will get most of his in Norfolk and some shading in Afghanistan for his Y-line. Just kidding ;)

My dodecad 3 results were almost a perfect fit to the combined Cornwall + Kent sample which, I assume is British_Isles. I could be wrong though.

1 British_Isles @ 1.475170
2 British @ 2.063311
3 Cornwall @ 2.573445
4 Kent @ 2.820810
5 Irish @ 3.789289
6 Dutch @ 4.999167
7 Mixed_Germanic @ 6.839759
8 Norwegian @ 10.461229
9 Orkney @ 12.224218
10 Orcadian @ 12.594086
11 Swedish @ 13.138394
12 Argyll @ 13.184555
13 N._European @ 13.922153
14 CEU @ 14.635563
15 French @ 18.164642
16 German @ 18.813988
17 French @ 19.182272
18 French_Basque @ 27.861357
19 Slovenian @ 32.264839
20 FIN @ 32.643284

Ha ha. Only Y hg L1b2c found so far have been England, Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

My Dodecad 3 is far less impressive:

CEU 3.94
Orcadian 6
N European 6.1
Orkney 6.4
Argyll 6.5
French 7.9
French 8.4
German 10
Mixed Germanic 10.8
Dutch 11.5
Kent 13.8
British Isles 15.95
British 15.96
Cornwall 16.5
Slovenian 18.6
Irish 19.3
French Basque 20.8
Swedish 20.9
Norwegian 21.5
Portuguese 22.9

So Dodecad 3 thinks that I look most like a citizen of Utah of European heritage!

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9020&d=1461723533

This was an earlier map of my mother's ancestral events in Norfolk. It does show distribution slightly better at this scale. Pretty much covers known ancestry up to around 330 years.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-25-2016, 06:33 AM
"So Dodecad 3 thinks that I look most like a citizen of Utah of European heritage!"
American sailor. ;) Seriously, I like that idea of plotting your ancestors on a map. John

A Norfolk L-M20
11-25-2016, 06:37 AM
I've been quite methodical keeping the place side of my database populated with coordinates. Gramps will generate it's own maps, but they are scruffy.

AnnieD
11-25-2016, 06:05 PM
"So Dodecad 3 thinks that I look most like a citizen of Utah of European heritage!"
American sailor. ;) ...

Hello American cousin! Ha Ha! But I'm afraid, now that you've immigrated to Mormon-land Utah, USA, I have to disqualify you from the most East Anglia English poster in the world thus far. :lol:

P.S. Spoken from a Dodecad V3 "CEU":

Using 1 population approximation:
1 CEU @ 2.451517