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Missouri1455
11-28-2016, 03:17 PM
I have been curious to know; whenever i see Saudis, Yemenis and other gulf arabs post their results; they always have a Caucasian component alongside Southwest Asian(Arabian). The Caucasian component peeks at 70% in Abkhazia; and surprisingly Yemenis score higher in Caucasian than Saudi Arabians who tend to score higher in Southwest Asian except if they're Yemenite Jews, Highlanders or Bedouins, then they'll share similar results with Saudis. What gets me curious is how did this Caucasian component make its way through the Arabian peninsula any historical sources for it? because it seems it's more historical then recent and why is it higher in Yemenis and lower in saudi arabians when Yemenis inhabit the southern part of Arabian peninsula?

Plus to this day, there are Arabians who score 90-100% in Southwest Asian(Arabian) today, which proves that this Caucasian component is not native to Arabian peninsula.

Thanks in advance

Arbogan
12-05-2016, 01:17 AM
I have been curious to know; whenever i see Saudis, Yemenis and other gulf arabs post their results; they always have a Caucasian component alongside Southwest Asian(Arabian). The Caucasian component peeks at 70% in Abkhazia; and surprisingly Yemenis score higher in Caucasian than Saudi Arabians who tend to score higher in Southwest Asian except if they're Yemenite Jews, Highlanders or Bedouins, then they'll share similar results with Saudis. What gets me curious is how did this Caucasian component make its way through the Arabian peninsula any historical sources for it? because it seems it's more historical then recent and why is it higher in Yemenis and lower in saudi arabians when Yemenis inhabit the southern part of Arabian peninsula?

Plus to this day, there are Arabians who score 90-100% in Southwest Asian(Arabian) today, which proves that this Caucasian component is not native to Arabian peninsula.

Thanks in advance

It's not a caucaus component. Rather it's genetic overlap via basal eurasian ancestry, which both contributed to caucasus and middle-east, ancestrally.

Arame
12-05-2016, 03:52 AM
Hman92

Can You post Gedrosia CHG K10 results for a Yemenite and a Saudite to see how much is the difference.

Missouri1455
12-05-2016, 07:17 AM
Hman92

Can You post Gedrosia CHG K10 results for a Yemenite and a Saudite to see how much is the difference.

Saudi
CHG 21.37
Amerindian 0.13
West african 2.91
Papuan 0.13
Southwest asian 56.64
South Indian 1.27
East Asian 0.35
WHG 2.16
Anatolian Farmers 14.97
EHG 0.08


Yemenite Jew
CHG 25.90
Amerindian 0.31
West african 3.67
Papuan 0.80
Southwest asian 48.02
South Indian 0.07
East Asian 0.23
WHG 0.83
Anatolian Farmers 20.17
EHG 0.00


Yemeni
CHG 24.96
Amerindian 0.51
West african 14.48
Papuan 0.31
Southwest asian 37.85
South Indian 2.90
East Asian 1.41
WHG 1.32
Anatolian Farmers 15.03
EHG 1.25

Supposedly a Yemenite Jew is used in these samples to represent what Yemenis were like ethnicity wise 1400 years ago or so; so if they Yemenite Jews hold CHG and Anatolian Farmers respectively at 25.90% and 20.17% then this might mean that these migrations/movements were more ancient than recent; still interesting because both CHG and Anatolian Farmers is not considered native to Arabian Peninsula only Southwest Asian is.

Or as Arbogan have said maybe it was a genetic overlap via basal eurasian ancestry of some sort.

Arame
12-05-2016, 08:11 AM
hman92

Anatolia farmers can overlap. Because it is very close to Natufian/SWA. CHG is very unlikely to be a overlap because it has ANE that was absent from Levant and Arabian peninsula in very ancient times.

This is Natufian. Most probably people like this were living in Arabia also. As You can see Anatolian farmers can be a native thing.

CHG 1.95
Amerindian -
W_African 3.56
Papuan 0.56
SW_Asian 42.81
S_Indian -
E_Asian -
WHG 6.57
Anatolian_Farmers 43.77
EHG 0.78


And this Jordan Bronze Age

CHG 24.54
Amerindian 1.37
W_African 0.84
Papuan 0.40
SW_Asian 37.45
S_Indian -
E_Asian 0.09
WHG 1.26
Anatolian_Farmers 30.85
EHG 3.21

So my understanding is that CHG came to Yemen with Proto-Semitic people.

Arbogan
12-05-2016, 08:52 AM
This isn't true CHG. It's probably ZNF or iranian_chalocolithic ancestry which is supposedly partially "CHG". It's related to the expansion of J1.

Callingstar
12-05-2016, 02:19 PM
Supposedly a Yemenite Jew is used in these samples to represent what Yemenis were like ethnicity wise 1400 years ago or so; so if they Yemenite Jews hold CHG and Anatolian Farmers respectively at 25.90% and 20.17% then this might mean that these migrations/movements were more ancient than recent; still interesting because both CHG and Anatolian Farmers is not considered native to Arabian Peninsula only Southwest Asian is.


More like Arabian originates further north , with Proto-Semites expanded from the Levant. So the Iranian Neolithic (you might see it as CHG or Caucasus-Gredosia sometimes) is probably an admixture Arabians got from the earliest proto-Arabian communities in the Southern Levant before the expansion into the Arabian peninsula.

Missouri1455
12-05-2016, 03:08 PM
hman92

Anatolia farmers can overlap. Because it is very close to Natufian/SWA. CHG is very unlikely to be a overlap because it has ANE that was absent from Levant and Arabian peninsula in very ancient times.

This is Natufian. Most probably people like this were living in Arabia also. As You can see Anatolian farmers can be a native thing.

CHG 1.95
Amerindian -
W_African 3.56
Papuan 0.56
SW_Asian 42.81
S_Indian -
E_Asian -
WHG 6.57
Anatolian_Farmers 43.77
EHG 0.78


And this Jordan Bronze Age

CHG 24.54
Amerindian 1.37
W_African 0.84
Papuan 0.40
SW_Asian 37.45
S_Indian -
E_Asian 0.09
WHG 1.26
Anatolian_Farmers 30.85
EHG 3.21

So my understanding is that CHG came to Yemen with Proto-Semitic people.

But the odd thing is to this day is you have indigenous Arabians who score at least 100%-90% when it comes to the SW asian component which brings me to the question how the pure ones looked like? This is an example image i posted in another post, I believe phenotypically speaking, the old man in both pics would hold unto to what a "pure" southwest asian would look like; and the young guy his son i believe has a minimal east african shift while the older guy with the beard has what you call levantine shift; especially with that much facial hair because pure Southwest asians don't hold much facial hair.

1290312904

Tsakhur
12-05-2016, 04:09 PM
But the odd thing is to this day is you have indigenous Arabians who score at least 100%-90% when it comes to the SW asian component which brings me to the question how the pure ones looked like? This is an example image i posted in another post, I believe phenotypically speaking, the old man in both pics would hold unto to what a "pure" southwest asian would look like; and the young guy his son i believe has a minimal east african shift while the older guy with the beard has what you call levantine shift; especially with that much facial hair because pure Southwest asians don't hold much facial hair if any at all.



Well first, SW Asian is not an actual component but rather a result of having one population to peaks 100% in a cluster. For example, we can create an Egyptian component by having a component to peaks at 100% in Egyptians and have Palestinians, Jordanians modelled as 50% Egyptian or Libyans modelles as 35-40% Egyptian. This does not necessarily mean that Palestinians, Jordanians and Libyans are actually 35-40 or 50% Egyptian ancestry. SW Asian I believe is actually mostly Natufian+CHG-related/Iran Neolithic+SSA ancestry (East African type). The Natufian+Iran Neolithic/CHG-related should contain quite a lot of Basal Eurasian (African-like admixture). The CHG should not be actual one but rather something CHG-like/Iran N-like that lacks any ANE as indigenous SW Asians usually don't have ANE.

It make sense if they have African ancestry though as indigenous Arabians often score around 5-10% SSA of East African type probably from Horner-like population who in turn got it from Nilo-Saharan/Nilotic-like SSA groups). Pure SW Asians I think look like tribal Bedouins in the Arabian peninsula. Wow I never heard of this thing called "Levantine shift". Can you elaborate more on it please? I also noticed that many Saudi Arabians, Qataris actually hardly have any facial hair at all. I think the stereotype that Arabs are hairy people is completely wrong and perpetuated by Western fear of Islamic world. I think when they say Arabs are "hairy people", they are confusing Talibans for Arabs when in fact they are Afghans.

Lank
12-05-2016, 05:20 PM
No modern Arabians lack the component affiliated with the ancient Caucasus or Iran Neolithic samples, not any of the samples we have so far anyway.

In some ADMIXTURE runs, a SW Asian component peaks at 100% in certain Arabians, as they form their own cluster easily due to their isolation and small founding population. However, in more stable runs (see, e.g., genetiker's runs (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/)), even the most isolated Arabian samples we have, the BedouinB, show notable Caucasus or Iran N. This was visible even in some of the runs before we had Near Eastern aDNA, but is now even more evident considering we actually have ancient samples to compare with.

Proto-Semitic dispersals from the Levant during the Bronze Age are a great candidate for this component's dispersal into Arabia. This would explain why it's notably low in certain Berbers and East Africans, despite their significant SW Asian ancestry.

When/how it got into the Levant is an interesting question, considering it was lacking in the Mesolithic/Neolithic Levant samples, but found in the Y-DNA J1 Bronze Age samples from Jordan. Y-DNA J is notably absent or rare in Levant/Anatolia aDNA before the Bronze Age, and rather prevalent in the Caucasus/Iran since at least the Mesolithic period.

Missouri1455
12-05-2016, 05:22 PM
Well first, SW Asian is not an actual component but rather a result of having one population to peaks 100% in a cluster. For example, we can create an Egyptian component by having a component to peaks at 100% in Egyptians and have neighboring populations like Palestinians, Jordanians scoring 50% Egyptian or Libyans scoring 35-40% Egyptian. This does not necessarily mean that Palestinians, Jordanians and Libyans are actually 35-40 or 50% Egyptian ancestry. SW Asian I believe is actually mostly Natufian+CHG-related/Iran Neolithic+SSA ancestry (East African type). The Natufian+Iran Neolithic/CHG-related should contain quite a lot of Basal Eurasian (African-like admixture). The CHG should not be actual one but rather something CHG-like/Iran N-like that lacks any ANE as indigenous SW Asians usually don't have ANE.

Thank you for pointing this out; the reason i emphasized on Southwest Asian; is usually native(mixed or not) people from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, and Kuwait tend to score highest in Southwest Asian in different ancestry tests(including gedmatch); at times i agree with you SW asian can be a very broad term but then again if done correctly it is the only geographic component that can match accuratley with a peninsular Arab. Basically, looking for SW asian component in most tests will measure up how much you descend from the Arabian peninsula. Which is usually not the case for people from other countries, but then again i really believe, if they wanted to sample an Arabian accurately they should develop a new sample that will be based on tribal Saudis, Yemenite Jews, Highlanders and Bedouins; because thats the only way they can sample an indigenous arabian who does not hold very high Mediterranean and west Asian admixture.

Me personally so far i found Decoad V3 the most accurate testing for me, because it somewhat knew where the geographic locations are located so it gave me accurate results based on my ethnicity composition.


It make sense if they have African ancestry though as indigenous Arabians often score around 5-10% SSA of East African type probably from Horner-like population who in turn got it from Nilo-Saharan/Nilotic-like SSA groups). Pure SW Asians I think look like tribal Bedouins in the Arabian peninsula. Wow I never heard of this thing called "Levantine shift". Can you elaborate more on it please? I also noticed that many Saudi Arabians, Qataris actually hardly have any facial hair at all. I think the stereotype that Arabs are hairy people is completely wrong.

Levantine shift is a person who's facial features shift to a more levantine(syrian, lebanese, etc) look; partially not fully.

That stereotype is very wrong, but it shows you how ignorant people can be at times; basically these two images show you the amount of facial hair a pure arabid would have.

1290512906

also the following two images phenotypically speaking are what indigenous/native southwest asians kids would look like
1290712908

Missouri1455
12-05-2016, 07:07 PM
No modern Arabians lack the component affiliated with the ancient Caucasus or Iran Neolithic samples, not any of the samples we have so far anyway.

In some ADMIXTURE runs, a SW Asian component peaks at 100% in certain Arabians, as they form their own cluster easily due to their isolation and small founding population. However, in more stable runs (see, e.g., genetiker's runs (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/)), even the most isolated Arabian samples we have, the BedouinB, show notable Caucasus or Iran N. This was visible even in some of the runs before we had Near Eastern aDNA, but is now even more evident considering we actually have ancient samples to compare with.

Proto-Semitic dispersals from the Levant during the Bronze Age are a great candidate for this component's dispersal into Arabia. This would explain why it's notably low in certain Berbers and East Africans, despite their significant SW Asian ancestry.

When/how it got into the Levant is an interesting question, considering it was lacking in the Mesolithic/Neolithic Levant samples, but found in the Y-DNA J1 Bronze Age samples from Jordan. Y-DNA J is notably absent or rare in Levant/Anatolia aDNA before the Bronze Age, and rather prevalent in the Caucasus/Iran since at least the Mesolithic period.

Very informative post, do they have a place in the site where they label these colours because i can't seem to find the labelings of these colours.

Tsakhur
12-05-2016, 11:29 PM
Thank you for pointing this out; the reason i emphasized on Southwest Asian; is usually native(mixed or not) people from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, and Kuwait tend to score highest in Southwest Asian in different ancestry tests(including gedmatch); at times i agree with you SW asian can be a very broad term but then again if done correctly it is the only geographic component that can match accuratley with a peninsular Arab. Basically, looking for SW asian component in most tests will measure up how much you descend from the Arabian peninsula. Which is usually not the case for people from other countries, but then again i really believe, if they wanted to sample an Arabian accurately they should develop a new sample that will be based on tribal Saudis, Yemenite Jews, Highlanders and Bedouins; because thats the only way they can sample an indigenous arabian who does not hold very high Mediterranean and west Asian admixture.

Me personally so far i found Decoad V3 the most accurate testing for me, because it somewhat knew where the geographic locations are located so it gave me accurate results based on my ethnicity composition.

You welcome. The reason the native tribal Arabs formed their own SW Asian component can also be due to geographic isolation and small population. The thing is the CHG-like/Iran N-like affinity in the SW Asian component seem to be very ancient and might date back to prehistoric times. I agree genetic experts should develop a special calculator to figure out the actual indigenous ancestry in SW Asians. However in this case, it seems Natufian which seems to make up most of the SW Asian component, is rather native/indigenous to the Arabian peninsula.

Do you have other SW Asian matches in gedmatch from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Oman and other SW Asian Gulf countries ? Can you share them please if you don't mind?



Levantine shift is a person who's facial features shift to a more levantine(syrian, lebanese, etc) look; partially not fully.

That stereotype is very wrong, but it shows you how ignorant people can be at times; basically these two images show you the amount of facial hair a pure arabid would have.

1290512906

also the following two images phenotypically speaking are what indigenous/native southwest asians kids would look like
1290712908

Are these Levantine shift in facial features the most common in northern parts of the Arabian peninsula? Well you are right Levantines do grow quite better facial hair compared to indigenous Arabians. A Turkish user in the this forum said this: http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=601713&t=4193263 But in my opinion, I think Levantines will easily be defeated by Northern Indians/Pakis, Afghans, Caucasians, Iranians, Turks, some Iraqis as I believe these groups have a lot more epic beard level on average than Levantines.

Yes pure Arabids like tribal Saudi Arabians, other Bedouins, Yemeni Jews and Highlanders can hardly grow any facial hair. Are the pure Arabid pictures on the left of Yemeni Muslim and on the right a Yemeni Jew? What countries are the SW Asian kids from?

Yes this is stereotype that Arabs are "very hairy with very long beards" is a very wrong and extreme misconception as indigenous Arabians can hardly grow any facial hair. I also noticed that a lot of Saudi Arabians, Qataris that I saw in the airports seem to have a lot of trouble growing facial hair. The Saudis that seem to have very weak and little facial hair like this: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2761/4535398714_9610cff658.jpg
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000QJxmSbVTM74/s/870/696/83062701-32-2.jpg
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=9v8bww&s=3
http://s523.photobucket.com/user/Aizadara/media/5600050906_90449c7f3a_b_zps59a9a197.jpg.html

I live in Oman before and Omanis have a lot of facial hair compared to other Arabians. But that is because I think Omanis have a lot of Baloch, Iranian and South Asian admix. I think this "hairy long beard" stereotype is perpetuated by Western fear of Muslims. I think when they say Arabs are "hairy people with long beards", they are mistaking the Talibans for Arabs when in fact they are Afghans, who generally have very epic facial hair.

In fact in another forum, a half Iraqi Bedouin member said that indigenous SW Asians have a lot of trouble growing facial hair: http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=601725&t=4193263

Missouri1455
12-06-2016, 03:29 PM
You welcome. The reason the native tribal Arabs formed their own SW Asian component can also be due to geographic isolation and small population. The thing is the CHG-like/Iran N-like affinity in the SW Asian component seem to be very ancient and might date back to prehistoric times. I agree genetic experts should develop a special calculator to figure out the actual indigenous ancestry in SW Asians. However in this case, it seems Natufian which seems to make up most of the SW Asian component, is rather native/indigenous to the Arabian peninsula.

Do you have other SW Asian matches in gedmatch from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Oman and other SW Asian Gulf countries ? Can you share them please if you don't mind?
Im planning to do FTDNA soon, so then ill be able to post a lot of accurate results. Geno 2.0 is too far off, im relating with people all over the world and most of them are either europeans or african americans lol.



Are these Levantine shift in facial features the most common in northern parts of the Arabian peninsula? Well you are right Levantines do grow quite better facial hair compared to indigenous Arabians. A Turkish user in the this forum said this: http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=601713&t=4193263 But in my opinion, I think Levantines will easily be defeated by Northern Indians/Pakis, Afghans, Caucasians, Iranians, Turks, some Iraqis as I believe these groups have a lot more epic beard level on average than Levantines.
In Arabia, the more you go north the more you see a levantine shift take place; but some yemenis obtained these features from the turks when they came to yemen, many of them married to local women and never returned to turkey so they somewhat shifted yemen ethnically, at times i wonder what some yemenis looked like before the ottomans came in; because the ottomans had a profound impact on some parts of yemen in terms of ancestry.


Yes pure Arabids like tribal Saudi Arabians, other Bedouins, Yemeni Jews and Highlanders can hardly grow any facial hair. Are the pure Arabid pictures on the left of Yemeni Muslim and on the right a Yemeni Jew? What countries are the SW Asian kids from?
They're all from Yemen and all of them are Jews except for the guy who wasn't wearing the traditional dress; the kids are also yemenite jews


Yes this is stereotype that Arabs are "very hairy with very long beards" is a very wrong and extreme misconception as indigenous Arabians can hardly grow any facial hair. I also noticed that a lot of Saudi Arabians, Qataris that I saw in the airports seem to have a lot of trouble growing facial hair. The Saudis that seem to have very weak and little facial hair like this: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2761/4535398714_9610cff658.jpg
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000QJxmSbVTM74/s/870/696/83062701-32-2.jpg
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=9v8bww&s=3
http://s523.photobucket.com/user/Aizadara/media/5600050906_90449c7f3a_b_zps59a9a197.jpg.html

I live in Oman before and Omanis have a lot of facial hair compared to other Arabians. But that is because I think Omanis have a lot of Baloch, Iranian and South Asian admix. I think this "hairy long beard" stereotype is perpetuated by Western fear of Muslims. I think when they say Arabs are "hairy people with long beards", they are mistaking the Talibans for Arabs when in fact they are Afghans, who generally have very epic facial hair.

In fact in another forum, a half Iraqi Bedouin member said that indigenous SW Asians have a lot of trouble growing facial hair: http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=601725&t=4193263

Thats true, people in the west always assume we wear turbans with big beards and look like taliban members; they have difficulty distinguishing between a saudi, pakistani, indian, etc. to them we all look the same

raspberry
12-11-2016, 07:38 PM
Im planning to do FTDNA soon, so then ill be able to post a lot of accurate results. Geno 2.0 is too far off, im relating with people all over the world and most of them are either europeans or african americans lol.



In Arabia, the more you go north the more you see a levantine shift take place; but some yemenis obtained these features from the turks when they came to yemen, many of them married to local women and never returned to turkey so they somewhat shifted yemen ethnically, at times i wonder what some yemenis looked like before the ottomans came in; because the ottomans had a profound impact on some parts of yemen in terms of ancestry.


They're all from Yemen and all of them are Jews except for the guy who wasn't wearing the traditional dress; the kids are also yemenite jews



Thats true, people in the west always assume we wear turbans with big beards and look like taliban members; they have difficulty distinguishing between a saudi, pakistani, indian, etc. to them we all look the same
Are you serious some turkish men changed the appearance of Yemenis who do not look "Southwest Asian" in your way? This is not accurate. If you would really care about the pure Arabs, you wouldnt argue with a such short and nearly unproofable impact on Southarabia. The real, massive and relevant impact on Arabia is and always was the African impact. The yemenis are not the purest Soutwest Asians. 30% of yemeni direct maternal haplogroups are of african origin. Also the african influence on yemen is the biggest of all (paternal, maternal and autosomal) in the Arabian peninsula. Arabs are at least as "hairy" as Europeans and not less. That some Yemenis are hairless is of the African genetic impact on south Arabia and not the other way around. You are twisting the facts around as you need it.. Maybe you should also re-read your own history (the history of yemen), The ottomans were loosely present in Yemen. Only a thin Stripe of the coastal western part of modern day Yemen was under ottoman control. The greater part of the so called "Yemen Province" was part of mountain Hejaz and not what is yemen nowadays. So Yemenis than and now would look the same. Some with lighter skin and some with black skin. Some with straight brown hair and some with curly dark black hair. Some with blue eyes and some with eyes like charcoal. Some with a long, defined nose and some with a short, wide nose.

Missouri1455
12-12-2016, 04:07 AM
Are you serious some turkish men changed the appearance of Yemenis who do not look "Southwest Asian" in your way? This is not accurate. If you would really care about the pure Arabs, you wouldnt argue with a such short and nearly unproofable impact on Southarabia. The real, massive and relevant impact on Arabia is and was the African impact. The yemenis are not the purest Soutwest Asians. 30% of yemeni direct maternal haplogroups are of african origin. Also the african influence on yemen is the biggest of all (paternal, maternal and autosomal) in the Arabian peninsula.

The turks clearly had a genetic influence in yemen, but that influence depends on where you go in yemen; the turks usually settled for mountainous regions, green areas and urban cities; so the influence is strong and can be seen depending on the area you're in; not every yemeni got influenced but the impact is there.

Yemenis of today are different from the ones of the past; if we were to label one as a "pure" southwest asian in arabia then we can't label a country as a whole rather label groups of people who managed to seclude themselves for as long as they could; usually the people that managed to do that in the region according to the autosomal records, are the tribal saudis, yemenite jews, highlanders, and bedouins; again individually one person from any of these groups can be mixed but as whole these groups usually end up holding the highest arabian traits.


Arabs are at least as "hairy" as Europeans and not less. That some Yemenis are hairless is of the African genetic impact on south Arabia and not the other way around. You are twisting the facts around as you need it.
Clearly if the yemenite jews, tribal saudis, etc always hold a certain look then ill probably go with that look because in this day and age according to the autosomal records they hold the highest arabian traits, if we were to go back in time things would have been different as always things change; and when it comes to anthropological stuff, things never stay the same. When i said hairless i didn't mean no hair at all, i posted the pictures of what i meant in one of the previous posts if you see it; you'll see what i mean.




Maybe you should also re-read your own history (the history of yemen), The ottomans were loosely present in Yemen. Only a thin Stripe of the coastal western part of modern day Yemen was under ottoman control. The greater part of the Yemen province was part of mountain Hejaz and not what is yemen nowadays. So Yemenis than and now would look the same. Some with lighter skin and some with black skin. Some with straight brown hair and some with curly dark black hair. Some with blue eyes and some with eyes like charcoal. Some with a long, defined nose and some with a short, wide nose.
The ottomans managed areas of importance in yemen, but they did face heavy resistance from the local tribes which forced them to stay in the areas they needed, rather than waste their time and money expand their reach; but then again this brings us to the point of how many turkish soldiers never made it back to turkey for as long as 300 years, they usually melted in different parts of ''north'' yemen.

Again im from yemen, and i lived in yemen, so i know the history of the country very well and im trying to share what i know about my country so i can benefit others and also learn from others.

raspberry
12-12-2016, 01:32 PM
I am just saying, you have to know.. We all see what we want to see .. Ignore the pictures, cant remove them. The Ottomans were not in Southarabia because they loved its nature /or and history also not because they wanted to have Yemen under their control, but rather as a barrier against the wild tribes for the holy sites of Islam. With the pictures I wanted to show that there is an obvious phenotypic difference between Yemenite Jews and tribal Saudis. Also I saw Saudis having more then 30% Caucasian.

Piquerobi
03-06-2017, 02:59 PM
Speaking of the "caucasus" and "southwest asian" components of Dodecad k12b, it looks like in Saudi Arabians and Yemenis, the "southwest asian" component predominates, in Jordanians and Palestinians the "caucasus" slightly predominates, and in Syrians, Lebanese and Samaritans, the "caucasus" component dominates. Having already the ancient Natufian results, the "southwest asian" component seems to be the native one, and it would not be surprising thus that it has remained the largest in Southern Arabia. Perhaps the "caucasus" component was brought later during the Bronze Age, along with paternal haplogroup J?

baqara3
03-24-2017, 07:59 PM
Since the haplogroup J1 evolved in the Caucasus/ Zagros mountains, it is not a suprise to find such a component on the Arabian Peninsula. Paleolethic Arabia was populated by another haplogroup. Besides this you can find this admixture everywhere on the Arabian Peninsula.

Agamemnon
04-29-2017, 05:04 PM
Proto-Semitic dispersals from the Levant during the Bronze Age are a great candidate for this component's dispersal into Arabia. This would explain why it's notably low in certain Berbers and East Africans, despite their significant SW Asian ancestry.

When/how it got into the Levant is an interesting question, considering it was lacking in the Mesolithic/Neolithic Levant samples, but found in the Y-DNA J1 Bronze Age samples from Jordan. Y-DNA J is notably absent or rare in Levant/Anatolia aDNA before the Bronze Age, and rather prevalent in the Caucasus/Iran since at least the Mesolithic period.

Needless to say I very much agree with your assertion, as to when this component made it to the Levant, if we go off the TMRCA estimates of the branches under P58 I'd say the Late Neolithic/Early Chalcolithic period is our best bet, hopefully we won't have to wait too long for the upcoming paper on the Chalcolithic Levant to come out.

lifeisdandy
05-19-2017, 03:13 PM
how do we explain caucasian component in Egyptians?

IronHorse
05-03-2018, 09:09 AM
Fst






























Siberian
Amerindian
West_African
Palaeo_African
Southwest_Asian
East_Asian
Mediterranean
Australasian
Arctic
West_Asian
North_European
South_Asian


Siberian














Amerindian
0.11













West_African
0.176
0.202












Palaeo_African
0.232
0.258
0.096











Southwest_Asian
0.133
0.157
0.14
0.198










East_Asian
0.057
0.109
0.165
0.221
0.123









Mediterranean
0.132
0.155
0.151
0.207
0.051
0.123








Australasian
0.176
0.211
0.215
0.268
0.184
0.161
0.185







Arctic
0.091
0.101
0.197
0.253
0.152
0.095
0.151
0.203






West_Asian
0.117
0.137
0.143
0.198
0.059
0.109
0.055
0.173
0.134





North_European
0.115
0.13
0.148
0.203
0.059
0.109
0.048
0.174
0.128
0.038




South_Asian
0.092
0.124
0.139
0.196
0.086
0.077
0.087
0.145
0.117
0.074
0.075



East_African
0.167
0.193
0.046
0.111
0.133
0.155
0.136
0.207
0.188
0.129
0.136
0.129



someone upthread concluded that Southwest Asian includes SSA, without any proof.

From Dodecad's 'globe13' calculator, Southwest Asian is not closer to African components(East, West, and Paleo) than the South Asian or West Asian components are.