View Full Version : E-L19 and the date that FGC18981 originated, PF2431>PF2438>FGC18981>FGC38527>FGC38517

11-30-2016, 01:46 AM
Hi everyone. I'm kind of new to detailed studies of E-L19 and it's subdivisions, so please bear with me if I don't write different haplogroup's names down just right.

I don't have any E-L19 Y-DNA, but some cousins of mine do. I share their E-L19 ancestors, who were some Mohlers from Germany who came from the Basel area in Switzerland to Germany in the 17th century. Some of these E-L19 cousins tested and are shown to have this SNP trail for them: PF2431>PF2438>FGC18981>FGC38527>FGC38517

Can anyone tell me when FGC18981 originated and where? Also, does anyone know when FGC38517 originated and where?

I am very interested in finding out who (the ethnic group) the very ancient ancestors of the Mohlers were and where they lived. Thanks for any help!

11-30-2016, 04:36 PM
Unfortunately PF2431 has not been terribly well studied. I'm sure you know about the Y-Full tree, which has the only age estimates for this haplogroup that I know of: https://yfull.com/tree/E-L19/

This piuts FGC18981 at about 3000 (2300-3800) years old and FGC38517 at 2300 (1600-3200) years old. So at the high end the later Bronze Age, at the low end the classical era of history, most likely around the Iron Age, assuming there are enough samples to give accurate dates.

Where or what ethnic group I have no idea.

12-01-2016, 02:26 AM
Thank you a lot. Seems like I may have read where E-L19 originated in North Africa with the Berbers. I think some people think the ancient ancestors of my Mohler line originated in North Africa, perhaps Algeria, and from there crossed into Spain, and from there later to Switzerland. I don't know for sure if this migratory trail or the Berber origin is accurate. I would say that probably the Mohlers at least shared some ancestors with the Berbers, but maybe PF2431 originated after the Mohler ancestors were in Europe and/or before the Berbers emerged as an ethnic group.

01-08-2017, 04:18 PM
maybe this diagram will help ;)
german group, spanish group, british group

with kind regards

01-08-2017, 04:35 PM
Is this haplo a M81 subclade:\?

01-08-2017, 04:41 PM
no i think it is E-L19 diagram
this is list of some e-L19 members :){you can see that it got a hot spot in derbishire england}


if i understand the e3b tree correct m-81 derived from e-L19.

01-09-2017, 01:35 AM
This lineage most likely came to Europe with NW African Berber mercenaries and soldiers in Roman times.

01-09-2017, 01:47 PM
This lineage most likely came to Europe with NW African Berber mercenaries and soldiers in Roman times.

very likely,
but i am also open to an option of entry
much earlier in time.... :)
best regards

01-10-2017, 06:33 PM
You know it has been strongly forgotten but one of the largest amount of Christian missionaries in Europe namenly Roman Gaul what is now France and Switzerland and even Great Britain were North Africans from Central Mauretania in what is now Algeria. The Memory has forgotten that there was a direct Link between those Christian Maures and modernday Muslim-leaning Berbers but Berbers were heavly Christians in what is now Algeria and Tunisia , many scholars consider Catholic religion was born in North Africa with Carthaginian Church and Saint Augustine ; many North African missionaries became saint or lordship in Europe as a results of their Christian preaches.

09-11-2020, 03:21 PM
sure orgin from north africa
I think their ancestors went to Europe between the Carthaginian and Roman times