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Mike_G
12-04-2016, 04:37 AM
Mods...if there's a better section to put this in, by all means please move this.

I've spoken at length with my daughter about my DNA testing, and she's become interested in it for herself for the same reasons I did "Just where did my ancestors come from?" I told her I'd look at the general opinions on this site to see which might be a better jumping off point for her. I've done testing through 23andMe and FTDNA. Like a lot of other people, the results are somewhat different between the two. The general opinion from what I've gathered is that 23andMe's autosomal testing is probably the most accurate out there at this time. Just for reference, here are my results on speculative:

European
99.5%
Northwestern European
58.9%
British & Irish
15.2%
Scandinavian
5.5%
French & German
2.9%
Broadly Northwestern European
35.3%
Eastern European
32.1%
Southern European
1.9%
Balkan
0.4%
Broadly Southern European
1.5%
Broadly European
6.5%
East Asian & Native American
0.4%
East Asian
0.2%
Broadly East Asian
0.2%
Broadly East Asian & Native American
0.2%
South Asian
0.1%
Broadly South Asian
0.1%
Unassigned
< 0.1%

Great...so according to 23andMe I'm of European (mostly North/Northwestern) background. In fact more than 1/3 of my ancestry could span anywhere from France to Ireland to Sweden. In other words, I gave $200 for 23andMe to tell me that at least most of my ancestry is north of 45N* latitude and west of 40E* longitude and really not much else.

Here's another wrinkle: my wife is from the Philippines, which I assume will be lumped into the East Asian/East of the Himalayas category.

If she really wants to do this (and I'll do it as a Christmas present for her) is it really worth it, or am I wrong to assume that commercial autosomal testing still has a long way to go to be anything meaningful for us mutts?

C J Wyatt III
12-04-2016, 05:55 AM
I like Family Finder for genealogical purposes. I don't think any admixture utility really has it all together, so I wouldn't choose a test based on the perception that the admixture results are better. Just upload the kit from whatever vendor to GEDmatch and play with the admixture caluculators there. That would provie plenty of entertainment

If you daughter really wants to know about her admixture, get your wife to test. A Family Finder for both the wife and your daughter, along with what you already have, would be the ticket. It also would be a good demonstration of how recombination works.

Just a thought,

Jack

Oleg (Rus)
12-04-2016, 10:12 AM
I would order 23andme as the most accurate test. When companies tell you that you are exactly Polish/German/French/Russian/Mordovian, it's just a dubious speculation, while 23andme's regional division is mostly precise. It may not look very nice and interesting, but it is true. You also can order FF for $59 in addition, during this holiday sale ($49 with a coupon). Maybe FTDNA is better for finding relatives, but 23andme is certainly better in discovering your genetical ancestry.

Mike_G
12-04-2016, 06:22 PM
I'll probably recommend FTDNA and tell her to take MyOrigins with a large grain of salt. I do like FTDNA's Family Finder content and interface a lot more than 23andMe's DNA Relative service. I've worn FTDNA's chromosome browser for my 3rd to 5th cousins matches to try and narrow things down. But those commercial admixtures are either too ambiguous or inaccurate to be helpful to us. Gedmatch is fun to monkey around with, but there are too many disparities even between them to show anything concrete.

Slightly OT...Oleg consider yourself lucky that you're in Russia and don't have to listen to 23andMe's commercials on the radio. Those things are brutal.

Oleg (Rus)
12-04-2016, 06:32 PM
I can't even directly order 23andme, because I'm in Russia:(

Oleg (Rus)
12-04-2016, 06:41 PM
It's not really hard to choose one of the 3 major companies:
Family Finder - the cheapest;
23andme - the most accurate calculator (+ some medical info, if you pay more);
AncestryDNA - the largest database of potential relatives;
And the best way is always to test in all of them. :)

ArmandoR1b
12-04-2016, 07:40 PM
It's not really hard to choose one of the 3 major companies:
Family Finder - the cheapest;
23andme - the most accurate calculator (+ some medical info, if you pay more);
AncestryDNA - the largest database of potential relatives;
And the best way is always to test in all of them. :)I agree 100%

wombatofthenorth
12-04-2016, 11:14 PM
It's not really hard to choose one of the 3 major companies:
Family Finder - the cheapest;
23andme - the most accurate calculator (+ some medical info, if you pay more);
AncestryDNA - the largest database of potential relatives;
And the best way is always to test in all of them. :)

It's really 4 major companies since there is also Geno.
Geno 2.0 NG costs more than FTDNA MyOrigins but also gives mtDNA and Y haplogroups (and with much nicer presentation than any of the other sites). Currently it seems to give the same % results as MyOrigins for ancestry but they provide much more context to the results and the way they map out the regions fits what the various categories actually measure much better than the misleading FTDNA MyOrigin maps for each category.
It seems the new Geno 2.0 NG Helix version might not allow transfer to FTDNA, data download for use on GEDMATCH or matching though (if you are outside of the US they still use Geno 2.0 NG which does allow all of those things).

Oleg (Rus)
12-04-2016, 11:22 PM
Geno 2.0 doesn't look as interesting as the tests above. You can order an ancestry test from 23andme for $99 and get a precise regional breakdown, mtDNA and YDNA. You will also find more matches, than with Geno 2.0 (I don't even know if Geno shows any matches, but anyway its database is less than 23andme's one). In the case of Geno, you just pay for their nice pictures. I'd rather test with MyHeritage or Living DNA (it includes YDNA and mtDNA), than with Geno.

wombatofthenorth
12-07-2016, 02:36 AM
Geno 2.0 doesn't look as interesting as the tests above. You can order an ancestry test from 23andme for $99 and get a precise regional breakdown, mtDNA and YDNA. You will also find more matches, than with Geno 2.0 (I don't even know if Geno shows any matches, but anyway its database is less than 23andme's one). In the case of Geno, you just pay for their nice pictures. I'd rather test with MyHeritage or Living DNA (it includes YDNA and mtDNA), than with Geno.

Not everyone cares about matches at all, but if you do you can transfer Geno 2.0 NG for $29 to FamilyFinder database (interestingly I just noticed that it looks like males who transferred over from Geno 2.0 NG get an extra $30 off on the Y-STR37 test so instead of $30 off plus whatever coupon you might have you get $60 off plus whatever coupon you might have; just comparing his account that had the transfer to mine that did not, his holiday base price before applying coupons is $30 less than mine for $60 total off as a starting point) and also download the data there to upload to GEDMATCH. (Note, the new Helix version doesn't allow this, so far that applies only to people in the U.S. and only as of the last few weeks, but for new US customers it is something to be aware of, at least for now) On GEDMATCH I get more matches from the Geno 2.0 NG data than from 23 data, not that it probably matters too much since anything but super close matches are usually hard to connect to. Heck, I have yet to manage to connect a single DNA match to my tree and I have many, many lines to 4x great-grandparents or more worked out on my tree. Ironically, the only three people I have managed to attach to my tree that I am related to were two untested members I met in a FB genealogy group related to my main background and one untested person who put an extensive tree up on MyHeritage.

It also gives money to the Geno society and they are the only ones of the big four to be bothering to spend any time and money and collecting new samples to build extended and larger reference bases AFAIK. (MyHeritage appears to be building a bit of a custom database, but not be going around the world and trying to collect various special samples).


Don't see how the FTDNA test is more interesting, since you get the same ancestry comp from Geno 2.0 only with a lot more background reference info and more accurate maps and fairly detailed mtDNA and Y-haplogroups with very nice presentation walking your haplo group out of Africa step-by-step.

Really don't see how MyHeritage test is more interesting than Geno since AFAIK you can't download data for GEDMATCH and their matching database is currently crazy small, probably get 0-10 matches total and no haplogroups and heck nobody even knows what the ancestry will even look like yet.

The 23 test is nice just because it offers a different database to look over and gives a different sort of ancestry and has much more active user forums.

Living DNA sounds intriguing and promises a ton although when they place Russia and Moldova in Western European genetic group and put Ukraine as apparently a closer match to Finland than Belarus or even the Baltics I wonder exactly what is going on over there?? Maybe they don't really mean to do that in the end, but their demo info on the webpage appears to show things like that.

I suggest (although it's more complex now due to Helix in the US) test with Geno 2.0 NG rather than FamilyFinder since you get FF plus a lot more and way better presentation. You can then later use FTDNA to do full mtDNA and STR or BigY and so on if you ever feel like or ever get the money. (although if you all you care about is matching and nothing else is of any interest then FF probably is the best just since it's the cheapest). And then add 23 to that. If you have extensive American colonial history or extensive history in the UK then AncestryDNA might be something to add as well, perhaps even before 23, depending upon what you are after most, matching or composition. We have to see what the very new stuff turns out like before saying much about it.