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Humanist
12-15-2016, 12:54 AM
A thread for the discussion of Iraqi Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/iraq/about/background) Y-DNA results and Iraqi Y-DNA in general.

One of the best country-specific projects at FTDNA, in my opinion.

Was notified a few days ago by my friend, the Iraqi Project admin, of some new results.

The grandson of the Chief Rabbi of Mosul has tested R-L584.

And an Iraqi Mandaean has tested as Y-DNA T. The Mandaean's 1-12 STRs are: 13,23,14,10,15-16,11,12,11,13,13,30. I believe this individual will be getting a Big Y done thanks to donations from the Arab T Project and Iraqi DNA Project.

Also, a Yezidi Kurd came back as J2. He is a 12/12 match with a Lebanese Druze. It appears that this Lebanese Druze family may have Kurdish roots.

Another Yezidi Kurd, this one from Bashiqa, came back as R1a.

J Man
12-15-2016, 01:49 AM
A thread for the discussion of Iraqi Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/iraq/about/background) Y-DNA results and Iraqi Y-DNA in general.

One of the best country-specific projects at FTDNA, in my opinion.

Was notified a few days ago by my friend, the Iraqi Project admin, of some new results.

The grandson of the Chief Rabbi of Mosul has tested R-L584.

And an Iraqi Mandaean has tested as Y-DNA T. The Mandaean's 1-12 STRs are: 13,23,14,10,15-16,11,12,11,13,13,30. I believe this individual will be getting a Big Y done thanks to donations from the Arab T Project and Iraqi DNA Project.

Also, a Yezidi Kurd came back as J2. He is a 12/12 match with a Lebanese Druze. It appears that this Lebanese Druze family may have Kurdish roots.

Another Yezidi Kurd, this one from Bashiqa, came back as R1a.

Interesting stuff...By chance do you know which tribe the J2 Yezidi Kurd belongs to?

Humanist
12-15-2016, 02:29 AM
Interesting stuff...By chance do you know which tribe the J2 Yezidi Kurd belongs to?

Sorry. I do not. But, the Iraqi Admin did add this, after reading what I wrote regarding the J2 results. It appears I was mistaken.


One thing to point out the Lebanese Druze family doesn't have any Kurdish roots. In fact they have central/south Mesopotamian Arab roots (Lakhmids clan/Al Hira) Their clan was ordered to relocated to Lebanon during the Abbasid era (Al Mansur period)

vettor
12-15-2016, 06:58 AM
Did the recent druze paper state this - central/south Mesopotamian Arab roots (Lakhmids clan/Al Hira) - or ..............

Humanist
12-18-2016, 12:01 AM
New results to report. A member of the Syriac Orthodox Church has tested as Y-DNA T. He is match with a Kuwaiti man. In addition, he has two Iraqi matches at 11/12, including one Iraqi Jewish individual from Baghdad, and one Iraqi Arab from Haditha.

Also, a Barzani Kurdish result is most likely J2, according to the Iraq Project Admin.

Humanist
12-18-2016, 12:05 AM
Did the recent druze paper state this - central/south Mesopotamian Arab roots (Lakhmids clan/Al Hira) - or ..............

I believe it said they are from SE Turkey or thereabouts? But, quite frankly, that does not make sense. Look at most of the autosomal DNA plots. As far as I know, the majority of them do not plot near people from that part of the world (e.g. Kurds, Assyrians, and Armenians). Anyway, this particular thread is focusing on Iraqi DNA, not Druze DNA.

Humanist
12-18-2016, 12:06 AM
Interesting stuff...By chance do you know which tribe the J2 Yezidi Kurd belongs to?

The Iraqi Project Admin told me the following, regarding your question:

The tribe is called "Haskani from Sinoni village in northern Sinjar."

J Man
12-18-2016, 01:03 AM
New results to report. A member of the Syriac Orthodox Church has tested as Y-DNA T. He is match with a Kuwaiti man. In addition, he has two Iraqi matches at 11/12, including one Iraqi Jewish individual from Baghdad, and one Iraqi Arab from Haditha.

Also, a Barzani Kurdish result is most likely J2, according to the Iraq Project Admin.

Do you have access to the Barzani Kurdish haplotype that likely is J2?

vettor
12-18-2016, 04:37 PM
in Yfull there is an Iraqi that matches with a tested Sardinian

YF04719 IRQ [IQ-BA] ....from Al Basrah ..............he is ydna T-S27463 . formed 6600 ybp, TMRCA 1600 ybp.............anyway to check who he is on this iraqi project site ?

Al Basrah from..........name originates from the Persian word Bas-rāh or Bassorāh meaning "where many ways come together".

Humanist
12-18-2016, 06:01 PM
Al Basrah from..........name originates from the Persian word Bas-rāh or Bassorāh meaning "where many ways come together".

If you got that bit from Wikipedia, the entire entry on "etymology," reads as follows:


The city was called by many names throughout its history, Basrah being the most common. In Arabic the word baṣrah means "the overwatcher", which might have been an allusion to the city's origin as an Arab military base against the Sassanids. Some sources claim that the name is derived from the Persian word Bas-rah, which means "where many paths meet".[citation needed] Others have argued that the name is derived from the Aramaic word basratha, meaning "place of huts, settlement".

Humanist
12-18-2016, 10:44 PM
Do you have access to the Barzani Kurdish haplotype that likely is J2?

Courtesy of the Iraqi Project Admin: 13-22-15-11-12/17-11-16-11-13-11-29

J Man
12-19-2016, 02:06 AM
Courtesy of the Iraqi Project Admin: 13-22-15-11-12/17-11-16-11-13-11-29

Interesting thank you. And is this J2 Barzani sample a member of the Barzani family/clan or the tribe called Barzani do you know?

vettor
12-19-2016, 04:55 AM
If you got that bit from Wikipedia, the entire entry on "etymology," reads as follows:

I always check the references and links in the wiki article ...........did I use part of wiki for ease , yes I did because it matched the links.

But Basrah was firstly a Persian settlement ( unless it has Babylonian, Sumerian etc from the ancient times) , before the Arabs arrived ~700AD.

Depends what method you accept...........current name change method based on today's system or yesterday naming system . The locals where my parents are from in Italy still use names of towns from pre-italian times , even though they have been changed.

Humanist
12-23-2016, 03:25 AM
Several more results, courtesy of the Iraqi Project admin and the Iraqi Project at FTDNA:

Assyrian - T
Assyrian (Chaldean) Erbil/Baghdad - R1b
Syriac Catholic -Bakhdida R1b
Shabak - Bakhdida - Q
Shabak - Bartilla - G-U1
Chaldean -Ankawa - J2
Arab - Kirkuk - J1-Y00076
Kurd -Erbil - J1
Chaldean - Batnaya - E1b
Yazeedi - Bashiqa - J2-M92
Turkmen - Telafar - E1b (close to the Mandaean E1b)
Sian Kurd - Erbil - E1b
Chaldean - Telliskif -E1b
Chaldean - TelKif - R1b

Agamemnon
12-23-2016, 03:29 AM
I've seen a couple of Chaldean individuals who were E-M34, could these Chaldeans be E-M34 as well? Also, I'd love to know which sub-branch of J1-YSC76 the Arab sample from Kirkuk carries. And the Yazidi J2a-M92 is fascinating!

Power77
12-23-2016, 04:15 AM
From what I understand of the Christian results, I can only suspect that E-M34 was, in all likelihood, much more common in Mesopotamia (and perhaps even Iran!) before the Islamic Arab expansion:nod:.

MfA
12-23-2016, 07:40 PM
Several more results, courtesy of the Iraqi Project admin and the Iraqi Project at FTDNA:


Do you know by any chance if the kit Botani is Kurdish or Assyrian?

wandering_amorite
12-23-2016, 08:49 PM
Little hope, I realize, but anything higher-resolution than E-M34? L791 or M84?

Agamemnon
12-23-2016, 08:52 PM
Little hope, I realize, but anything higher-resolution than E-M34? L791 or M84?

I wouldn't exactly call L791 or M84 high-resolution, but again E-M35.1 is severely understudied... I'd love to see more about E-M34's phylogeny, that's for sure.

MfA
12-23-2016, 08:52 PM
Little hope, I realize, but anything higher-resolution than E-M34? L791 or M84?

I know the Siyani Kurd is M84

MfA
12-23-2016, 08:54 PM
I wouldn't exactly call L791 or M84 high-resolution, but again E-M35.1 is severely understudied... I'd love to see more about E-M34's phylogeny, that's for sure.

L791 is rather easy with having DYS391=9

MfA
12-23-2016, 08:57 PM
Shabak Kurdish samples are Q1b, another Shabak is L140. Barzani sample is most likely under Z7700. «ingyanÓ Kurd is Y40, Zarari Kurd is P58, Ezidi Kurd is Z500 probably M92, Feyli Kurd from Khaneqin is ZS3128.

I've updated the Kurdish Tribes Y-DNA Haplogroups (http://corduene.blogspot.com.tr/2016/03/kurdish-tribes-y-dna-haplogroups.html) post with new samples thanks to Iraq DNA Project

Here's the relevant samples from the project.

BarzanÓ - J2a-L26>PF5087>L24>Z7700 - Duhok, Kurmanji FTDNA: 554451
BerzencÓ - J1-M267>PF7263 - SilÍmanÓ, Sorani FTDNA: 415187
BerzencÓ - J1-M267>P58>Z18297 - SilÍmanÓ, Sorani FTDNA: N88767
BerzencÓ - R1a-L62>M417>Z94>Z2124>Z2125 - SilÍmanÓ, Sorani FTDNA: 415189
«ingyanÓ - R1a-L62>M417>Z94>Y40>YP4867 - SilÍmanÓ, SoranÓ FTDNA: N36757
HaskanÓ - J2a-L26>PF5087>L24 - Şengal - EzidÓ FTDNA: 533251
HawramÓ - J2a-L26>PF5087>M67>Z467 - SilÍmanÓ - Gorani FTDNA: 199581
Jaff (Caf) - E1b1b1-M35>M34>M84 - SilÍmanÓ, Sorani FTDNA: 188408
Jaff (Caf) - J2a-L26>PF5087>L24>Z387>L70 - SilÍmanÓ, Sorani FTDNA: 376203
Melik ŞahÓ - J1-M267>Z1828>Z1842>ZS3128 - XaneqÓn, Feyli FTDNA: 533995
MÓran - I2a2a-M438>M223 - HewlÍr, Sorani FTDNA: 415167
SÓyan - E1b1b1-M35>M34>M84 - HewlÍr, Sorani FTDNA: 554430
Şex BizinÓ - R1a-L62>M417>Z94 - KerkŻk, SoranÓ FTDNA: 534001
TalabanÓ - J2a-L26>PF5087>L24>Z387 - KerkŻk - Sorani FTDNA: 429046
ZararÓ - J1-M267>P58 - HewlÍr, Sorani FTDNA: 554431

nontribals or unknown

490006 SoranÓ - G2a2b2a1-P287>L31>L30>P303>L140
554448 Şebek - G2a2b2a1-P287>L31>L30>P303>L140
554434  zidÓ - J2a-L26>PF5087>M67>Z500
237593 FeylÓ - J1-M267>P58
423255 SoranÓ - J1-M267>PF7263
372116 FeylÓ - J1-M267>PF7263>ZS4440
534043  zidÓ - R1a-L62>M417>Z94>Z2124>Z2122>CTS6
554444 Şebek - Q1b1a1-M378>L245
534032 Şebek - Q1b1a1-M378>L245

J Man
12-23-2016, 09:30 PM
Several more results, courtesy of the Iraqi Project admin and the Iraqi Project at FTDNA:

Assyrian - T
Assyrian (Chaldean) Erbil/Baghdad - R1b
Syriac Catholic -Bakhdida R1b
Shabak - Bakhdida - Q
Shabak - Bartilla - G-U1
Chaldean -Ankawa - J2
Arab - Kirkuk - J1-Y00076
Kurd -Erbil - J1
Chaldean - Batnaya - E1b
Yazeedi - Bashiqa - J2-M92
Turkmen - Telafar - E1b (close to the Mandaean E1b)
Sian Kurd - Erbil - E1b
Chaldean - Telliskif -E1b
Chaldean - TelKif - R1b

Another J2a this time M92 Yazeedi...Interesting. Tribal info would be great.

wandering_amorite
12-23-2016, 11:49 PM
I wouldn't exactly call L791 or M84 high-resolution, but again E-M35.1 is severely understudied... I'd love to see more about E-M34's phylogeny, that's for sure.

Oh sureóL791 and M84 are probably pre-Bronze Age, which goes to show how much catch-up there is to do. But for many populations with relatively high levels of E-M34, we don't even have any downstream information.

wandering_amorite
12-23-2016, 11:51 PM
I know the Siyani Kurd is M84

Does the vast majority of Kurdish E-M34 belong to E-M84?

Agamemnon
12-24-2016, 12:06 AM
Does the vast majority of Kurdish E-M34 belong to E-M84?

Most Kurds are E-M84 IIRC.

wandering_amorite
12-24-2016, 12:36 AM
It'd be interesting to see how the subclade distributions differ for Semitic-speaking vs. non-Semitic-speaking groups (Kurds, Turks, Azeris, Cypriots) in the Middle East (or broaden the scope, and include Europe).

Agamemnon
12-24-2016, 01:39 AM
It'd be interesting to see how the subclade distributions differ for Semitic-speaking vs. non-Semitic-speaking groups (Kurds, Turks, Azeris, Cypriots) in the Middle East (or broaden the scope, and include Europe).

That would certainly be very informative and offer useful clues as to the patterns underlying E-M34's phylogeny.

Aschtnaya
12-24-2016, 03:56 AM
Can someone who has already tested with 23&me join Iraq DNA project (Y-DNA)?

Humanist
12-24-2016, 04:01 AM
Do you know by any chance if the kit Botani is Kurdish or Assyrian?

Sorry. But I do not know.

Humanist
12-24-2016, 04:02 AM
Can someone who has already tested with 23&me join Iraq DNA project (Y-DNA)?

23andMe results cannot be transferred to FTDNA. So, unfortunately, the answer is no.

MfA
12-24-2016, 08:42 AM
It'd be interesting to see how the subclade distributions differ for Semitic-speaking vs. non-Semitic-speaking groups (Kurds, Turks, Azeris, Cypriots) in the Middle East (or broaden the scope, and include Europe).

I looked at the recent Cypriot study (Vaskorides et al) a while ago, they're overwhelmingly M84 (PF6748, some looks like Y14899 but needs SNP confirmation but wouldn't surprise me since some Palestinian Christians also belong to this clade, 1 FGC18401 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1h2d_fWiArJXftiYjwQLPwV3fyyc&usp=sharing)) minority L791 like around 10% maybe.

vettor
12-24-2016, 08:52 AM
23andMe results cannot be transferred to FTDNA. So, unfortunately, the answer is no.

Only if 23andme is the version 3 ...................unless that has been stopped recently

azucanc
12-24-2016, 08:52 PM
Interesting thank you. And is this J2 Barzani sample a member of the Barzani family/clan or the tribe called Barzani do you know?

The Barzani sample is for a member of the Barzani clan. They are named after the region they inhabit, 'Barzan' I believe.

azucanc
12-24-2016, 08:59 PM
Shabak Kurdish samples are Q1b, another Shabak is L140. Barzani sample is most likely under Z7700. «ingyanÓ Kurd is Y40, Zarari Kurd is P58, Ezidi Kurd is Z500 probably M92, Feyli Kurd from Khaneqin is ZS3128.

I've updated the Kurdish Tribes Y-DNA Haplogroups (http://corduene.blogspot.com.tr/2016/03/kurdish-tribes-y-dna-haplogroups.html) post with new samples thanks to Iraq DNA Project

Here's the relevant samples from the project.

BarzanÓ - J2a-L26>PF5087>L24>Z7700 - Duhok, Kurmanji FTDNA: 554451
BerzencÓ - J1-M267>PF7263 - SilÍmanÓ, Sorani FTDNA: 415187
BerzencÓ - J1-M267>P58>Z18297 - SilÍmanÓ, Sorani FTDNA: N88767
BerzencÓ - R1a-L62>M417>Z94>Z2124>Z2125 - SilÍmanÓ, Sorani FTDNA: 415189
«ingyanÓ - R1a-L62>M417>Z94>Y40>YP4867 - SilÍmanÓ, SoranÓ FTDNA: N36757
HaskanÓ - J2a-L26>PF5087>L24 - Şengal - EzidÓ FTDNA: 533251
HawramÓ - J2a-L26>PF5087>M67>Z467 - SilÍmanÓ - Gorani FTDNA: 199581
Jaff (Caf) - E1b1b1-M35>M34>M84 - SilÍmanÓ, Sorani FTDNA: 188408
Jaff (Caf) - J2a-L26>PF5087>L24>Z387>L70 - SilÍmanÓ, Sorani FTDNA: 376203
Melik ŞahÓ - J1-M267>Z1828>Z1842>ZS3128 - XaneqÓn, Feyli FTDNA: 533995
MÓran - I2a2a-M438>M223 - HewlÍr, Sorani FTDNA: 415167
SÓyan - E1b1b1-M35>M34>M84 - HewlÍr, Sorani FTDNA: 554430
Şex BizinÓ - R1a-L62>M417>Z94 - KerkŻk, SoranÓ FTDNA: 534001
TalabanÓ - J2a-L26>PF5087>L24>Z387 - KerkŻk - Sorani FTDNA: 429046
ZararÓ - J1-M267>P58 - HewlÍr, Sorani FTDNA: 554431

nontribals or unknown

490006 SoranÓ - G2a2b2a1-P287>L31>L30>P303>L140
554448 Şebek - G2a2b2a1-P287>L31>L30>P303>L140
554434  zidÓ - J2a-L26>PF5087>M67>Z500
237593 FeylÓ - J1-M267>P58
423255 SoranÓ - J1-M267>PF7263
372116 FeylÓ - J1-M267>PF7263>ZS4440
534043  zidÓ - R1a-L62>M417>Z94>Z2124>Z2122>CTS6
554444 Şebek - Q1b1a1-M378>L245
534032 Şebek - Q1b1a1-M378>L245

Not trying to get political here but all the Shabakis and Yazeedis I tested do not view themselves as Kurds. They prefer to be called as either Shabakis or Yazeedis (autonomous groups neither Arabs not Kurds). As for the other Kurds there are more Kurdish members in our Iraq project under non tribal names. I am also expecting a few other Kurdish samples I tested from the Khoshnaw and Belbas clans. Will keep you posted once the results are out.

azucanc
12-24-2016, 09:01 PM
Do you know by any chance if the kit Botani is Kurdish or Assyrian?

Botani is an Assyrian

azucanc
12-24-2016, 09:27 PM
The recent Iraqi results posted are as below:
554441 Baznaya Assyrian from Sumille, Duhok - T-Hg 13 23 14 10 13-18 11 12 10 13 13 30
554432 Abba Syriac Catholic T-hg 12 23 14 10 14-16 11 12 11 14 13 30
554453 Al Juhiashi Arab Kirkuk J-Y00076 12 23 14 10 14-18 11 16 11 13 11 30
554436 Qsaab Syriac Catholic R-M269 12 23 14 11 11-15 12 12 13 14 13 30
534018 alkeldani Telkif Chaldean R-M269 12 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 12 12 13 28
554431 Sofi Zrari Kurd-Erbil J1-hg 12 24 14 10 13-19 11 16 12 12 11 30
554451 Barazani Kurd J2-hg 13 22 15 11 12-17 11 16 11 13 11 29
554444 Shabaki - Bakhdida with possible roots from Mardin Q-M242 13 23 13 10 15-17 12 12 12 13 15 29
534030 Almsodani Mandaean from Maysan T-M70 13 23 14 10 15-16 11 12 11 13 13 30
554440 Rafaeel Chaldean, from Telesquf E-M35 13 24 13 10 16-17 11 12 12 13 11 31
554439 Dabool Chaldean from Batnaya E1b 13 24 13 10 16-17 11 12 13 13 11 30
554435 Khidher Turkmen from Telafar E-M35 13 24 13 10 17-18 11 12 12 13 11 30
554449 Botani Assyrian/Chaldean Erbil R-M269 13 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 12 14 13 31
534017 alanbari Arab from Abu Ghraib near Baghdad E-M35 13 24 14 10 19-20 11 12 11 14 11 31
554430 Sian Kurd from Erbil E-M35 13 25 14 10 16-17 11 12 12 13 11 31
534043 Kheder Yazeedi from Bashiqa R-M198 13 25 16 10 11-14 12 12 12 14 11 31
554448 Shabaki from Bartilla G-M201 14 22 15 10 13-14 11 12 13 12 11 28
488261 Arab from Basra R-M124 14 23 14 10 14-16 12 12 13 14 10 30
433498 Arab from Al-Kut K-M9 14 23 14 9 15-16 11 12 11 13 13 28
540502 Cohen Jew from Mosul R-L584 12 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 13 13 13 29
418954 Al Asadi (Marsh Arab) Q-M242 13 22 13 10 15-16 12 12 11 13 13 29
467363 Al Saadi Arab from Baghdad J-M172 12 26 14 10 14-15 11 15 12 13 11 29
533251 Saido Haskani Yazeedi from Sinoni, Sinjar J-M172 12 23 14 10 13-17 11 14 11 12 11 29


These are the recent results published in the last few weeks mostly tested by me but not all. More Kurdish, Assyrian, Mandaean and Arab results to come. Please share your thought about the haplotypes above.

azucanc
12-24-2016, 09:35 PM
Can someone who has already tested with 23&me join Iraq DNA project (Y-DNA)?

I have one member at least who transferred his raw data from 23andme into FTDNA last year. Only autosomal though.

King
12-24-2016, 09:42 PM
How much samples does the iraq project have from Nasiriyah and Samawah? And how does their Y-DNA distributions look like?

azucanc
12-25-2016, 01:26 AM
How much samples does the iraq project have from Nasiriyah and Samawah? And how does their Y-DNA distributions look like?

Not many from samawa around 5-10 samples as far as I recall. Whereas for Nasiriyah there are a couple more. Generally results from Nasiriya are more diverse than Samawa e.g. J1, J2, E1b, R1b, L and T.

J Man
12-28-2016, 07:37 PM
The Barzani sample is for a member of the Barzani clan. They are named after the region they inhabit, 'Barzan' I believe.

The same as the Barzani mentioned in this link below?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barzani_Kurds

Mher
12-31-2016, 09:30 PM
The recent Iraqi results posted are as below:
554441 Baznaya Assyrian from Sumille, Duhok - T-Hg 13 23 14 10 13-18 11 12 10 13 13 30
554432 Abba Syriac Catholic T-hg 12 23 14 10 14-16 11 12 11 14 13 30
554453 Al Juhiashi Arab Kirkuk J-Y00076 12 23 14 10 14-18 11 16 11 13 11 30
554436 Qsaab Syriac Catholic R-M269 12 23 14 11 11-15 12 12 13 14 13 30
534018 alkeldani Telkif Chaldean R-M269 12 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 12 12 13 28
554431 Sofi Zrari Kurd-Erbil J1-hg 12 24 14 10 13-19 11 16 12 12 11 30
554451 Barazani Kurd J2-hg 13 22 15 11 12-17 11 16 11 13 11 29
554444 Shabaki - Bakhdida with possible roots from Mardin Q-M242 13 23 13 10 15-17 12 12 12 13 15 29
534030 Almsodani Mandaean from Maysan T-M70 13 23 14 10 15-16 11 12 11 13 13 30
554440 Rafaeel Chaldean, from Telesquf E-M35 13 24 13 10 16-17 11 12 12 13 11 31
554439 Dabool Chaldean from Batnaya E1b 13 24 13 10 16-17 11 12 13 13 11 30
554435 Khidher Turkmen from Telafar E-M35 13 24 13 10 17-18 11 12 12 13 11 30
554449 Botani Assyrian/Chaldean Erbil R-M269 13 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 12 14 13 31
534017 alanbari Arab from Abu Ghraib near Baghdad E-M35 13 24 14 10 19-20 11 12 11 14 11 31
554430 Sian Kurd from Erbil E-M35 13 25 14 10 16-17 11 12 12 13 11 31
534043 Kheder Yazeedi from Bashiqa R-M198 13 25 16 10 11-14 12 12 12 14 11 31
554448 Shabaki from Bartilla G-M201 14 22 15 10 13-14 11 12 13 12 11 28
488261 Arab from Basra R-M124 14 23 14 10 14-16 12 12 13 14 10 30
433498 Arab from Al-Kut K-M9 14 23 14 9 15-16 11 12 11 13 13 28
540502 Cohen Jew from Mosul R-L584 12 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 13 13 13 29
418954 Al Asadi (Marsh Arab) Q-M242 13 22 13 10 15-16 12 12 11 13 13 29
467363 Al Saadi Arab from Baghdad J-M172 12 26 14 10 14-15 11 15 12 13 11 29
533251 Saido Haskani Yazeedi from Sinoni, Sinjar J-M172 12 23 14 10 13-17 11 14 11 12 11 29


These are the recent results published in the last few weeks mostly tested by me but not all. More Kurdish, Assyrian, Mandaean and Arab results to come. Please share your thought about the haplotypes above.
554449 Botani Assyrian/Chaldean Erbil R-M269 13 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 12 14 13 31 interesting haplotyp,maybe L11?

ADW_1981
12-31-2016, 10:32 PM
554449 Botani Assyrian/Chaldean Erbil R-M269 13 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 12 14 13 31 interesting haplotyp,maybe L11?

I think L584 like the other Assyrians....I think same as Syrian Alawites.

azucanc
01-03-2017, 11:16 PM
The same as the Barzani mentioned in this link below?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barzani_Kurds

Yes, that's correct.

azucanc
01-03-2017, 11:33 PM
A few more Iraqi results tested by our project came out today:

554427 Khoshnaw Kurd - Erbil, G - 15 22 16 10 12-14 11 12 11 12 11 28
554428 Margaya Assyrian (Chaldean) - Zakho, T -13 23 14 10 14-17 11 12 10 13 14 29
554429 Belbas Kurd - Erbil, R1a - 13 23 15 10 12-12 12 12 12 13 13 30
554433 Pataq Syriac (Catholic!) - Bakhdida (Qaraqosh), R1b- 12 23 14 11 11-15 12 12 12 13 13 29
554445 Belbas Kurd - Erbil, J1 - 12 25 13 10 12-18 10 15 12 12 11 29
554446 Tkhoma clan Assyrian, Erbil, R1a - 13 25 17 11 11-12 12 12 11 13 11 31

Humanist
01-04-2017, 01:34 AM
A few more Iraqi results tested by our project came out today:

554427 Khoshnaw Kurd - Erbil, G - 15 22 16 10 12-14 11 12 11 12 11 28
554428 Margaya Assyrian (Chaldean) - Zakho, T -13 23 14 10 14-17 11 12 10 13 14 29
554429 Belbas Kurd - Erbil, R1a - 13 23 15 10 12-12 12 12 12 13 13 30
554433 Pataq Syriac (Catholic!) - Bakhdida (Qaraqosh), R1b- 12 23 14 11 11-15 12 12 12 13 13 29
554445 Belbas Kurd - Erbil, J1 - 12 25 13 10 12-18 10 15 12 12 11 29
554446 Tkhoma clan Assyrian, Erbil, R1a - 13 25 17 11 11-12 12 12 11 13 11 31

An infrequent Assyrian R1a result. Very nice. Interesting to see that the R1b results are not limited to those of the "Nestorian" faith. Did you hear about the Teppe Hasanlu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teppe_Hasanlu) result reported several months back? I do not recall if you and I discussed it. The sample F38 (971-832 BCE) came back as Z2103.

azucanc
01-04-2017, 11:53 PM
An infrequent Assyrian R1a result. Very nice. Interesting to see that the R1b results are not limited to those of the "Nestorian" faith. Did you hear about the Teppe Hasanlu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teppe_Hasanlu) result reported several months back? I do not recall if you and I discussed it. The sample F38 (971-832 BCE) came back as Z2103.

We didn't get to discuss the sample F38 from the Teppe Hasanlu, no. Note that a big chunk of Iraqi R1b's are in fact Z2103 positive or presumed positive. I recall you produce regular graphs representing haplogroup distributions amongst the Aramaic-speaking (Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac) population of Iraq/Iran/Turkey. Please feel free to share your updated graph here.

Also one correction to my previous post. The J1 Belbas Kurd is from the town of Bartilla in Nineveh and not Erbil.

Joe B
01-05-2017, 12:38 AM
F38 is on the YFull haplotree.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y16852/

azucanc
01-10-2017, 10:22 AM
Barzani sample (mentioned earlier in this thread) which I thought was going to be a J2. Turned out to be J1!

Barzani - 13 22 15 11 12-17 11 16 11 13 11 29

MfA
01-10-2017, 10:46 AM
Looks like he's M365

TŠltos
01-11-2017, 03:58 PM
Can't seem to find this posted on the forum yet. Anyway it will be fantastic if they can obtain DNA results from these skeletons! http://www.livescience.com/57422-skeletons-found-in-ancient-iraq-tomb.html


A 2,400-year-old tomb filled with the skeletons of at least six people has been discovered in northern Iraq. Among the artifacts found in the tomb is a bracelet decorated with images of two snake heads peering at each other.

azucanc
01-18-2017, 07:05 PM
Another batch of Iraqi results, mostly Iraqi Arabs.

Assyrian (Duhok) Tayyari clan - T-Haplogroup 13 23 14 10 14-18 11 12 12 14 14 30

Arab (Amara) E1b - 13 24 14 9 16-17 11 12 12 14 11 31

Arab (Haditha - Anbar) R1b - 13 24 14 11 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 29

Arab - Iraq E1b - 14 23 15 10 19-20 11 12 12 13 11 30

Arab (Baghdad) R1b - 13 25 16 10 11-14 12 12 12 12 13 28

Arab (Baghdad) G - 15 21 15 10 13-15 11 12 11 12 11 29

Arab (Kirkuk) J1 - 12 23 14 11 13-19 11 17 11 13 11 30

Arab (Ana - Anbar) tbc - 14 24 15 10 17-17 11 12 12 13 11 31

Arab (Amara) J1 - 12 23 14 11 13-18 11 17 11 13 11 30

Arab (Basra) J1 - 12 24 14 10 13-19 11 13 11 13 11 30

ADW_1981
01-19-2017, 05:26 AM
Another batch of Iraqi results, mostly Iraqi Arabs.

Assyrian (Duhok) Tayyari clan - T-Haplogroup 13 23 14 10 14-18 11 12 12 14 14 30

Arab (Amara) E1b - 13 24 14 9 16-17 11 12 12 14 11 31

Arab (Haditha - Anbar) R1b - 13 24 14 11 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 29

Arab - Iraq E1b - 14 23 15 10 19-20 11 12 12 13 11 30

Arab (Baghdad) R1b - 13 25 16 10 11-14 12 12 12 12 13 28

Arab (Baghdad) G - 15 21 15 10 13-15 11 12 11 12 11 29

Arab (Kirkuk) J1 - 12 23 14 11 13-19 11 17 11 13 11 30

Arab (Ana - Anbar) tbc - 14 24 15 10 17-17 11 12 12 13 11 31

Arab (Amara) J1 - 12 23 14 11 13-18 11 17 11 13 11 30

Arab (Basra) J1 - 12 24 14 10 13-19 11 13 11 13 11 30

Now that Iraq is starting to get a decent sample size, are you noticing haplogroup trends in the various regions?

azucanc
02-03-2017, 12:38 AM
Now that Iraq is starting to get a decent sample size, are you noticing haplogroup trends in the various regions?

Not precisely, the only trend I noticed was the higher than average R1a presence in Western Iraq.

azucanc
02-03-2017, 03:01 PM
Another Iraqi Chaldean E1b result from Tellisqif - 13 24 13 9 16-18 11 12 12 13 11 33

azucanc
02-16-2017, 08:47 PM
The Arab from Baghdad mentioned in the thread earlier is our first official Iraqi R1b-L2 with haplotype:

13 25 16 10 11-14 12 12 12 12 13 28


We also have an Iraqi Kurd from Kalar (Zangana clan) who is J2 with the following haplotype:
12 22 15 10 14-15 11 14 12 12 11 30

A big-Y Iraqi Arab result:
I-Y13338 - 13 25 17 11 12-17 11 13 11 14 11 31

Iraqi Arab Baghdad - J2: 12 23 14 10 14-19 11 16 12 13 11 29

Iraqi Arab from Nasiriya R1b : 12 24 14 10 11-16 12 12 12 12 13 28

azucanc
04-04-2017, 10:22 PM
I have to be selective while publishing the results so I will choose a small group of tested results I tested myself in the Iraq project:

Syriac from Mosul - J2: 13 23 15 10 16-16 11 15 12 13 11 30
Chaldean from Baghdad (roots in Mangeesh, Duhok 1800s) - G: 14 22 15 10 13-14 11 12 12 13 11 29
Arab from Baghdad - J1 or J2: 12 23 14 10 13-18 11 16 12 13 12 29
Arab from Nasiriya - L or O: 12 22 15 10 9-16 11 12 14 14 13 30
Yazeedi from southern Sinjar - R1a : 13 24 15 10 11-14 12 12 10 12 11 29
Arab from Baghdad - T: 13 23 14 11 14-16 11 12 11 14 13 30
Arab from Alkut - T: 13 23 14 10 14-16 11 12 11 13 13 31
Kurd (Qazanchi) from Kifri - J2: 13 22 15 10 13-14 11 16 11 13 11 30
Arab from Najaf - J2: 12 23 14 10 13-16 11 15 11 13 11 29
Arab from Hindiya - J2: 12 25 15 10 13-15 11 15 11 13 11 30
Mandaean from Qurna - E1b : 13 25 14 10 17-18 11 12 13 13 11 30
Mandaean from Basra - R1a: 13 25 16 11 11-14 12 12 10 13 11 30

MfA
04-04-2017, 10:41 PM
I have to be selective while publishing the results so I will choose a small group of tested results I tested myself in the Iraq project:
Yazeedi from southern Sinjar - R1a : 13 24 15 10 11-14 12 12 10 12 11 29
Kurd (Qazanchi) from Kifri - J2: 13 22 15 10 13-14 11 16 11 13 11 30


This is great another R1a-Z282>YP4858, it's so far found only among northern-western Kurmanji and Zaza kurds, great to see it from central-south Kurmanjis as well. I think this supports it's not a recent introgression.

Kurd (Qazanchi) from Kifri - J2, looks like M67>Z500, same haplotype found in another Kurd from Iraq in Stenersen et al.

azucanc
04-08-2017, 06:39 PM
Something to add as I know you record all Kurdish/Ezidi/Shabaki etc samples on you blog. The R1a Ezidi participant is from one of the southern most Ezidi villages in Sinjar. It is currently part of Al-Baaj not Sinjar and the village is called Siba Sheikh Khidir aka Aljazeera (مجمع الجزيرة / سيبا شيخ خدر). The village was built in the 70s when Saddam relocated many Ezidi villagers southward into Arab regions, while doing the opposite to Arab villages there. Unfortunately, this village suffered heavily as a result of Daesh invasion in 2014.

Qatto's tribe is called Al Qiran. They speak Ezidi Kurmanji as a native tongue. The result is found in the Iraq DNA project along with many other Ezidi samples. There will be more Kurdish results soon as I have tested a few in a recent trip to Iraq.

azucanc
04-16-2017, 12:25 AM
A couple more Iraq results:
Chaldean from Karimlis, Nineveh plain: J1 - 12 23 14 10 13-22 11 13 11 13 11 30
Chaldean from Baqofa, Nineveh plain: R1b - 12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 13 13 15 28
Arab from Tikrit: E1b - 12 24 13 10 15-17 11 12 13 13 11 30
Turkmen from Telafar: J2 - 12 22 14 10 12-15 11 16 11 14 11 31
Arab from Basra: R1b - 12 24 14 11 11-14 12 13 12 13 13 29

Caspian
04-16-2017, 12:08 PM
A couple more Iraq results:
Chaldean from Karimlis, Nineveh plain: J1 - 12 23 14 10 13-22 11 13 11 13 11 30
Chaldean from Baqofa, Nineveh plain: R1b - 12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 13 13 15 28
Arab from Tikrit: E1b - 12 24 13 10 15-17 11 12 13 13 11 30
Turkmen from Telafar: J2 - 12 22 14 10 12-15 11 16 11 14 11 31
Arab from Basra: R1b - 12 24 14 11 11-14 12 13 12 13 13 29

Are there more y-dna results of Iraqi Turkmens?

Agamemnon
04-16-2017, 03:48 PM
A couple more Iraq results:
Chaldean from Karimlis, Nineveh plain: J1 - 12 23 14 10 13-22 11 13 11 13 11 30
Chaldean from Baqofa, Nineveh plain: R1b - 12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 13 13 15 28
Arab from Tikrit: E1b - 12 24 13 10 15-17 11 12 13 13 11 30
Turkmen from Telafar: J2 - 12 22 14 10 12-15 11 16 11 14 11 31
Arab from Basra: R1b - 12 24 14 11 11-14 12 13 12 13 13 29

Looks fairly close to the J1-CTS1460 Assyrians we have.

azucanc
04-18-2017, 10:56 PM
Are there more y-dna results of Iraqi Turkmens?

Yes we have a total of 5 Iraqi Turkmens tested so far. They come from 4 different regions (Telafar, Baghdad, Diyala and Kirkuk) 2 of them belong to E1b hg the rest are R1a, R1b and this J2 fella. One of the R1b's published on this thread earlier as an Arab from Baghdad turned out to be an Arabized Turkmen from Baghdad. His result was an unusual R-L2 13 25 16 10 11-14 12 12 12 12 13 28.

azucanc
04-18-2017, 10:57 PM
Looks fairly close to the J1-CTS1460 Assyrians we have.

Yep that's right he is 1 G.D from another Iraqi Assyrian (Yonan)

kingjohn
07-29-2017, 07:03 PM
today i looked at my matches in family finder and me and my brother match iraqi
i think he is muslem me and my brother share 8cm segment with him on the same place on chromosome 1
his name
Ali alazzawi

are any of you expert think it is a muslem name ?

Ali alazzawi (IQ Project-E1b Proj)
i think he manager of e1b1 iraq dna project but his y haplogroup is j1

Principe
07-29-2017, 07:06 PM
today i looked at my matches in family finder and me and my brother match iraqi
i think he is muslem me and my brother share 8cm segment with him on the same placxe on chromosome 1
his name
Ali alazzawi

are any of you expert think it is a muslem name ?

I would think the name Ali is a Shia Muslim name.

wandering_amorite
07-29-2017, 07:06 PM
today i looked at my matches in family finder and me and my brother match iraqi
i think he is muslem me and my brother share 8cm segment with him on the same place on chromosome 1
his name
Ali alazzawi

are any of you expert think it is a muslem name ?

Ali alazzawi (IQ Project-E1b Proj)
i think he manager of e1b1 iraq dna project but his y haplogroup is j1

Ali is a solidly Muslim name.

wandering_amorite
07-29-2017, 07:08 PM
I would think the name Ali is a Shia Muslim name.

I don't know Iraq well, so perhaps where the sectarian divide over Ali is salient, it suggests the bearer is Shi'i. But I know Jordanians, Palestinians, and Egyptians named Ali—certainly Sunni, but maybe Sunnis tend to name their sons Ali when Shi'is aren't around.

Principe
07-29-2017, 07:10 PM
I don't know Iraq well, so perhaps where the sectarian divide over Ali is salient, it suggests the bearer is Shi'i. But I know Jordanians, Palestinians, and Egyptians named Ali—certainly Sunni, but maybe Sunnis tend to name their sons Ali when Shi'is aren't around.

Maybe I wouldn't know for sure, I know Iraq does have a large Shia population, perhaps the last name will be more telling?

MfA
07-29-2017, 07:21 PM
Al-Azzawi's are mainly Sunni, but i heard there used to be some mixed marriages with people from Shia sect.

kingjohn
07-29-2017, 07:37 PM
fascinating
i don't want to send him emaill and disturb
and he will not be happy about the conection i am sure about it ...
if he is full muslim it is truly amazing to me .


p.s
thanks for all your answeres guys B)

kingjohn
07-29-2017, 09:13 PM
so family finder matches going back only 5 generations
100-150 years
ok it is better than nothing though

https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/autosomal-ancestry/universal-dna-matching/generations-family-finder-analyzes/

kingjohn
07-30-2017, 04:48 PM
i tried 3 times to send email to the iraqi dna project
i want to know from where ali came in iraq
and if he is muslim or jew thats all
very dissapointed :(
maybe mfa here can help maybe they will answere his emails ....



p.s
going through the net
i see this surname is common in the area of bagdhad that is cool

azucanc
08-02-2017, 10:02 PM
I tested Ali myself. He is an Iraqi Muslim from Diyala (Paternally) while his mother's side is from Mosul/Baghdad with an unknown origin. He seems to have a lot of Jewish matches mostly Iraqi Jews. which may suggest some recent Jewish roots. His paternal haplogroup is J1.

kingjohn
08-03-2017, 09:54 PM
dear azucanc ,
thanks
do other Iraqi Muslim also
show Iraqi jewish matches in family finder or they only match muslim ?
the matches in family finder goes back 5-6 generations 100-150 years
kind regards
and thanks for all help
adam

azucanc
08-03-2017, 11:39 PM
Yes some do but not to this extent. Ali's matches are predominantly Jewish which might indicate a recent admixture. Usually Iraqis get the odd one or two Jewish matches and they are usually distant. but in this case you have matches as close as third cousin

Joe B
08-04-2017, 12:41 AM
EDIT: There are actually 3 Iraqi's who have the 11-11 modal, only 1 is confirmed Z2109. I'm assuming +ve for BY611, but it's certainly high probability.

Thanks ADW_1981 for finding this R1b-Z2109 haplotype with the unusual STRs in the Iraq DNA project. R-Z2109 13 24 14 11 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 29
Dear Iraq DNA project administrator, please ask this kit to join the R1b Basal Subclades project. There are a couple other Iraqis in the project with the same 12 STRs and we may want to change their testing recommendation.
Many thanks.

kingjohn
08-04-2017, 11:51 AM
Yes some do but not to this extent. Ali's matches are predominantly Jewish which might indicate a recent admixture. Usually Iraqis get the odd one or two Jewish matches and they are usually distant. but in this case you have matches as close as third cousin


i guess the chance for shared segments with Iraqi Jews is higher probably in urban areas
were there known jewish communities ...
is there any way alazzawi can find the information about his mother ?
is there any documents on his mother origin somewhere ?
best regards
adam

azucanc
08-06-2017, 12:35 AM
Thanks ADW_1981 for finding this R1b-Z2109 haplotype with the unusual STRs in the Iraq DNA project. R-Z2109 13 24 14 11 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 29
Dear Iraq DNA project administrator, please ask this kit to join the R1b Basal Subclades project. There are a couple other Iraqis in the project with the same 12 STRs and we may want to change their testing recommendation.
Many thanks.

Thanks Joe, Yes they have been added to the R1b Basal project. Note that all 3 samples are from Western Iraq (2 from Haditha and the third one is probably from Fallujah).

azucanc
08-06-2017, 12:37 AM
i guess the chance for shared segments with Iraqi Jews is higher probably in urban areas
were there known jewish communities ...
is there any way alazzawi can find the information about his mother ?
is there any documents on his mother origin somewhere ?
best regards
adam
I will ask him and see what he says. but last time we spoke he told me that his mother is from Mosul with no known tribal or familial background.

azucanc
10-08-2017, 11:30 PM
In an attempt to bring this thread to life again, below are a group of recent Iraqi results for you to discuss:

Syriac, Bakhdida: R1a - 13 25 15 10 11-13 12 12 11 13 12 29
Arab, Baghdad: G - 14 21 15 10 13-15 11 12 13 12 11 29 (Exact match with a Barzanchi Kurd)
Arab, Baghdad: E1b (probably V22) - 13 24 14 10 19-19 11 12 12 14 11 31 (This V22 haplotype seems to be common in and around Baghdad/Central Iraq)
Arab, Mosul: J1 - 12 25 13 11 12-17 10 15 12 12 11 29 (a couple of Kurdish matches primarily from Turkey)
Arab, Baghdad with possible Anbari roots: R1b (probably R-Z29764 ) - 12 24 14 11 12-14 11 12 11 13 13 29
Kurd, Jaff/Noor wali: Probably J2 with strange haplotype - 13 23 14 10 12-14 11 13 11 13 11 29
Arab, Karbala: Q - 13 25 14 10 13-17 12 12 13 13 13 30
Arab, Mosul: J2 - 12 22 14 10 13-16 11 15 11 13 11 29
Kurd, Barzanchi Kalar: T - 13 23 14 10 14-16 11 12 11 14 13 32
Kurd, Jaff Sulimai: J2 - 12 23 15 10 14-16 11 16 11 14 11 32
Iraqi Jewish, Al-Hilla: J-ZS6056 - 12 24 14 10 14-19 11 16 11 13 11 30 (SNP Pack result)
Arab, Baghdad: G - 15 22 15 10 12-16 11 12 13 12 11 28
Arab, Baghdad: E1b - 13 24 14 10 18-18 11 12 12 14 11 31
Syriac, Bashiqa: J2 - 12 23 14 11 15-17 11 15 13 13 11 29
Turkmen, Amerli: J2 - 12 23 14 11 10-17 11 16 12 13 11 29
Turkmen or Arab, Kirkuk: G - 15 21 16 11 13-15 11 12 11 12 11 29
Kurd, Baiji: J2 - 12 23 14 10 14-16 11 15 11 13 11 29
Arab, Tikrit: J1 - 12 23 14 11 13-19 11 17 11 13 11 29
Syriac, Bartilla: R1b - 12 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 13 13 12 30
Chaldean, Alqosh: J2 - 12 24 14 10 15-18 11 15 13 12 11 28
Arab, Dhi Qar: I-M170 - 13 24 15 10 12-12 11 13 12 14 11 31
Kurd, Sulimani (Jaff with probably connection to the Anza emirs): J2 - 12 24 14 10 13-16 11 15 11 13 11 29
Arab, Diyala: L - 11 23 14 9 14-16 11 12 13 12 14 28
Arab, Dhi Qar: J1 - 12 23 14 10 13-20 11 16 10 14 11 31
Arabized Kurd (Probable Kalhori roots) from Al-Sadiyah in Diyala: J2 - 12 23 14 10 13-16 11 15 11 13 11 29
Arab, Baghdad: T - 14 22 14 9 14-16 11 12 12 13 13 28

Mandaean, Maternal lineage : Haplogroup - HV
Arab, Maternal Lineage: Haplogroup - H33a (Originally the lineage may have been a Fayli Kurd maternally)

azucanc
10-08-2017, 11:32 PM
i guess the chance for shared segments with Iraqi Jews is higher probably in urban areas
were there known jewish communities ...
is there any way alazzawi can find the information about his mother ?
is there any documents on his mother origin somewhere ?
best regards
adam

He confirmed that his grandmother was in fact a Jew from Baghdad. That explains the shared segments I guess.

J Man
10-09-2017, 12:43 AM
In an attempt to bring this thread to life again, below are a group of recent Iraqi results for you to discuss:

Syriac, Bakhdida: R1a - 13 25 15 10 11-13 12 12 11 13 12 29
Arab, Baghdad: G - 14 21 15 10 13-15 11 12 13 12 11 29 (Exact match with a Barzanchi Kurd)
Arab, Baghdad: E1b (probably V22) - 13 24 14 10 19-19 11 12 12 14 11 31 (This V22 haplotype seems to be common in and around Baghdad/Central Iraq)
Arab, Mosul: J1 - 12 25 13 11 12-17 10 15 12 12 11 29 (a couple of Kurdish matches primarily from Turkey)
Arab, Baghdad with possible Anbari roots: R1b (probably R-Z29764 ) - 12 24 14 11 12-14 11 12 11 13 13 29
Kurd, Jaff/Noor wali: Probably J2 with strange haplotype - 13 23 14 10 12-14 11 13 11 13 11 29
Arab, Karbala: Q - 13 25 14 10 13-17 12 12 13 13 13 30
Arab, Mosul: J2 - 12 22 14 10 13-16 11 15 11 13 11 29
Kurd, Barzanchi Kalar: T - 13 23 14 10 14-16 11 12 11 14 13 32
Kurd, Jaff Sulimai: J2 - 12 23 15 10 14-16 11 16 11 14 11 32
Iraqi Jewish, Al-Hilla: J-ZS6056 - 12 24 14 10 14-19 11 16 11 13 11 30 (SNP Pack result)
Arab, Baghdad: G - 15 22 15 10 12-16 11 12 13 12 11 28
Arab, Baghdad: E1b - 13 24 14 10 18-18 11 12 12 14 11 31
Syriac, Bashiqa: J2 - 12 23 14 11 15-17 11 15 13 13 11 29
Turkmen, Amerli: J2 - 12 23 14 11 10-17 11 16 12 13 11 29
Turkmen or Arab, Kirkuk: G - 15 21 16 11 13-15 11 12 11 12 11 29
Kurd, Baiji: J2 - 12 23 14 10 14-16 11 15 11 13 11 29
Arab, Tikrit: J1 - 12 23 14 11 13-19 11 17 11 13 11 29
Syriac, Bartilla: R1b - 12 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 13 13 12 30
Chaldean, Alqosh: J2 - 12 24 14 10 15-18 11 15 13 12 11 28
Arab, Dhi Qar: I-M170 - 13 24 15 10 12-12 11 13 12 14 11 31
Kurd, Sulimani (Jaff with probably connection to the Anza emirs): J2 - 12 24 14 10 13-16 11 15 11 13 11 29
Arab, Diyala: L - 11 23 14 9 14-16 11 12 13 12 14 28
Arab, Dhi Qar: J1 - 12 23 14 10 13-20 11 16 10 14 11 31
Arabized Kurd (Probable Kalhori roots) from Al-Sadiyah in Diyala: J2 - 12 23 14 10 13-16 11 15 11 13 11 29
Arab, Baghdad: T - 14 22 14 9 14-16 11 12 12 13 13 28

Mandaean, Maternal lineage : Haplogroup - HV
Arab, Maternal Lineage: Haplogroup - H33a (Originally the lineage may have been a Fayli Kurd maternally)

Wow a lot of Kurds from the Jaff tribe seem to belong to haplogroup J2. Well from these results at least.

ADW_1981
10-09-2017, 01:18 AM
In an attempt to bring this thread to life again, below are a group of recent Iraqi results for you to discuss:

Syriac, Bakhdida: R1a - 13 25 15 10 11-13 12 12 11 13 12 29

Is this one predicted or confirmed? Looks similar to N39156. If only a prediction, could also be a R1b(xM269)

The I-M170 also looks like a I2-M26 haplotype.

azucanc
10-09-2017, 05:59 PM
Wow a lot of Kurds from the Jaff tribe seem to belong to haplogroup J2. Well from these results at least.

Yes, that's right. I noticed a large percentage of Kurdish results especially from the Sulimania region belong to the J2 haplogroup.

azucanc
10-09-2017, 06:05 PM
Is this one predicted or confirmed? Looks similar to N39156. If only a prediction, could also be a R1b(xM269)

The I-M170 also looks like a I2-M26 haplotype.

Predicted not confirmed. N39156 is a Syriac from Mosul and this Syriac is from Bakhdida which is only a few kilometres away from Mosul. So yes he could be R1b(xM269) too.

Lupus82
10-09-2017, 06:32 PM
Can you post all of these results on a pie chart?

J Man
10-09-2017, 08:13 PM
Yes, that's right. I noticed a large percentage of Kurdish results especially from the Sulimania region belong to the J2 haplogroup.

Do those Jaff tribe J2 Kurdish results come from the city of Sulimania do you know?

azucanc
10-09-2017, 08:42 PM
Can you post all of these results on a pie chart?

Which results exactly? Jaff? Kurdish? overall Iraqi? ones I just posted?

azucanc
10-09-2017, 08:47 PM
Do those Naff tribe J2 Kurdish results come from the city of Sulimania do you know?

Jaff is mostly from Sulimania province but not necessarily from the city itself. Most of the Jaff Kurds I tested trace their lineages to villages in and around Sulimania/Kalar region. Some were also second or third generation Kurds living in Baghdad with roots in Sulimania.

Lupus82
10-09-2017, 08:58 PM
Which results exactly? Jaff? Kurdish? overall Iraqi? ones I just posted?

All of the Iraqi results. And if possible, would you post the breakdown of the results by ethnicity as well?

azucanc
10-10-2017, 02:21 PM
All of the Iraqi results. And if possible, would you post the breakdown of the results by ethnicity as well?

Yes could do. Even though some of the results are of either mixed ethnicities or unknown background.

azucanc
12-05-2017, 02:09 PM
An ambiguous Iraqi Assyrian result came out today:

14 22 15 10 11-11 11 12 11 13 11 31

Different predictors give different hgs. Any thoughts as to which haplogroup he might belong to? This Assyrian individual is from Harir northern Iraq. However, distant roots are from modern day Turkey (south east) close to the Iraqi border.

Tomasso29
12-05-2017, 08:15 PM
An ambiguous Iraqi Assyrian result came out today:

14 22 15 10 11-11 11 12 11 13 11 31

Different predictors give different hgs. Any thoughts as to which haplogroup he might belong to? This Assyrian individual is from Harir northern Iraq. However, distant roots are from modern day Turkey (south east) close to the Iraqi border.

Can't tell you what that haplogroup is, but my father's family is also from Harir, and likely from the same area this person's family came from in Turkey (Modern day Semdinli in Hakkari). Chances are high that we're related, but I doubt it's the same Y-DNA HG as mine.

I would be interested to see what the results are, based on this site (http://www.nevgen.org), his haplogroup is C2c1-Z1338, which is a mutation within C-M217 (Also known as C3), that would be very intriguing if true.

azucanc
12-05-2017, 10:35 PM
Can't tell you what that haplogroup is, but my father's family is also from Harir, and likely from the same area this person's family came from in Turkey (Modern day Semdinli in Hakkari). Chances are high that we're related, but I doubt it's the same Y-DNA HG as mine.

I would be interested to see what the results are, based on this site (http://www.nevgen.org), his haplogroup is C2c1-Z1338, which is a mutation within C-M217 (Also known as C3), that would be very intriguing if true.

Yes you are right. His roots are from Shemsdin aka Semdinli, Hakkari. The family moved from there to Harir and now in Baghdad where we tested him. He is not the first Assyrian tested from that particular region btw.
As for his result, I thought it could potentially be G2a (one of the predictors gave that as a possibility) but the fact that DYS385=11-11 made it less likely. Will have to wait and see, hopefully ftdna won't take too long in their backbone testing.

Tomasso29
12-05-2017, 10:42 PM
Yes you are right. His roots are from Shemsdin aka Semdinli, Hakkari. The family moved from there to Harir and now in Baghdad where we tested him. He is not the first Assyrian tested from that particular region btw.
As for his result, I thought it could potentially be G2a (one of the predictors gave that as a possibility) but the fact that DYS385=11-11 made it less likely. Will have to wait and see, hopefully ftdna won't take too long in their backbone testing.

Yea, G2a was the other option that showed up on that site, I would say it's the likely scenario. As for Assyrians from that region, I know of two others tested, one has J1 and the other one is R2 like me. Any others you know of?

azucanc
12-05-2017, 10:55 PM
Yea, G2a was the other option that showed up on that site, I would say it's the likely scenario. As for Assyrians from that region, I know of two others tested, one has J1 and the other one is R2 like me. Any others you know of?

Yes, another confirmed Assyrian from that region is E-Z5016 in the Iraq project. Also there is a G-M201 Assyrian from Bradost (between Harir and Shemsdin) he could potentially be a Nochiyaye too.

azucanc
01-03-2018, 10:42 PM
Can't tell you what that haplogroup is, but my father's family is also from Harir, and likely from the same area this person's family came from in Turkey (Modern day Semdinli in Hakkari). Chances are high that we're related, but I doubt it's the same Y-DNA HG as mine.

I would be interested to see what the results are, based on this site (http://www.nevgen.org), his haplogroup is C2c1-Z1338, which is a mutation within C-M217 (Also known as C3), that would be very intriguing if true.

So this ambiguous Assyrian turned out to be F-M89......Not C or G as we initially thought. That makes him the second F in the Iraq DNA Project, the first one is an Arabized Kurd from Maysan in the south. Unfortunately, the F-hg is not active, no subgrouping is available.

Lupus82
01-04-2018, 09:14 AM
......
Deleted

Lupus82
01-04-2018, 09:24 AM
So this ambiguous Assyrian turned out to be F-M89......Not C or G as we initially thought. That makes him the second F in the Iraq DNA Project, the first one is an Arabized Kurd from Maysan in the south. Unfortunately, the F-hg is not active, no subgrouping is available.

Do you mean he is the basal haplogroup F? No further subclades?

azucanc
01-04-2018, 11:07 PM
Do you mean he is the basal haplogroup F? No further subclades?

Yes that's right. Both the Assyrian individual and the Maysan/Ilam Kurd are F-M89+ and no further subclades. I was hoping the F-hg project would help in categorizing these results but as mentioned in my previous post, the project seems inactive.

azucanc
02-01-2018, 01:03 AM
Iraq DNA project Y-DNA statistics as of end of December 2017:

994 total
850 Iraqi Arabs (Including Iraqis of Arabized Persian, Armenian, Indian & Georgian roots)
50 Assyrians/Chaldeans/Syriacs (18 Assyrians, 18 Chaldeans, 14 Syriacs)
44 Kurds (including 6 Fayli Kurds, 1 Kakaie)
25 Iraqi Jews
5 Yazeedis
3 Shabaks
10 Mandaeans
7 Turkmen

Please note that only confirmed paternally Iraqi Y-DNA results were included. around 20-30 new samples were added to the project since December 2017.

dmana
02-01-2018, 02:35 PM
Why are so many kits ungrouped? Shouldn't each kit be moved to their respective group in the classic chart/coloured chart pages?

Caspian
02-01-2018, 11:18 PM
Iraq DNA project Y-DNA statistics as of end of December 2017:

994 total
850 Iraqi Arabs (Including Iraqis of Arabized Persian, Armenian, Indian & Georgian roots)
50 Assyrians/Chaldeans/Syriacs (18 Assyrians, 18 Chaldeans, 14 Syriacs)
44 Kurds (including 6 Fayli Kurds, 1 Kakaie)
25 Iraqi Jews
5 Yazeedis
3 Shabaks
10 Mandaeans
7 Turkmen

Please note that only confirmed paternally Iraqi Y-DNA results were included. around 20-30 new samples were added to the project since December 2017.

What do you thing about the following y-dna results and kit numbers? Do they have Armenian or Georgian roots? Is there any information about them?

Some L1b-M317 Pontic Cluster samples. They belong to same cluster with Pontic Greeks, Hemshin Armenians, Lazes, Megrelians, Svans, Georgians and Chechens.
193345 كنــــانة ربيعــة Iraq L-M20 11 23 15 10 13-17 11 12 13 12 13 28 17 9-10 11 11 24 16 20 31 15-15-16-16
304555 الدريسات - كنانة Iraq L-M20 11 23 15 10 13-17 11 12 13 13 13 29
304615 كنــــانة ربيعــة Iraq L-M20 11 23 15 10 13-17 11 12 13 13 13 29
304550 الدريسات - كنانة Iraq L-M20 11 23 15 10 13-17 11 12 13 13 13 29

azucanc
02-02-2018, 12:13 AM
Why are so many kits ungrouped? Shouldn't each kit be moved to their respective group in the classic chart/coloured chart pages?

This is a continuous process slowed down by the influx of non-Iraqi samples, FTDNA taking long to identify hgs of many kits, GAP is very slow at subgrouping kits and new results are out on an almost daily basis.

azucanc
02-02-2018, 12:17 AM
What do you thing about the following y-dna results and kit numbers? Do they have Armenian or Georgian roots? Is there any information about them?

Some L1b-M317 Pontic Cluster samples. They belong to same cluster with Pontic Greeks, Hemshin Armenians, Lazes, Megrelians, Svans, Georgians and Chechens.
193345 كنــــانة ربيعــة Iraq L-M20 11 23 15 10 13-17 11 12 13 12 13 28 17 9-10 11 11 24 16 20 31 15-15-16-16
304555 الدريسات - كنانة Iraq L-M20 11 23 15 10 13-17 11 12 13 13 13 29
304615 كنــــانة ربيعــة Iraq L-M20 11 23 15 10 13-17 11 12 13 13 13 29
304550 الدريسات - كنانة Iraq L-M20 11 23 15 10 13-17 11 12 13 13 13 29

These results are from Dhi Qar in southern Iraq as far as I know. They come from a tribal Iraqi Arab background. So definitely no recent or known Armenian/Georgian ancestry.

azucanc
05-06-2018, 02:46 PM
A new batch of Iraqi results collected by the Iraq DNA project in a recent a trip across Iraq:

Arab - Mosul: Predicted J2 12 22 13 10 13-15 11 15 11 14 11 32
Arab - Basra: J-M172 12 22 14 10 12-15 11 15 11 13 11 30
Arab - Baghdad: Predicted J2 12 22 14 10 15-19 11 14 11 14 11 31
Turkmen - Kirkuk: J-M267 12 24 14 10 13-17 11 15 12 14 11 31
Kurd - Akre: J-M267 12 22 14 11 13-19 11 17 11 13 11 30
Arab - Basra: J-M172 12 23 13 10 13-16 11 19 11 14 11 30
Arab - Karbala: J-M172 12 23 14 10 13-16 11 15 10 13 11 28
Arab - Basra: Predicted J1 12 23 14 10 13-18 11 17 11 13 11 29
Arab - Nasiriya: Predicted J1 12 23 14 10 13-18 11 17 12 14 11 31
Arab - Nasiriya: J-M267 12 23 14 11 13-17 11 17 12 13 11 30
Chaldean - Karmlis: J-M172 12 23 14 10 15-17 11 15 13 13 11 30
Arab - Baghdad: R-M269 12 23 14 11 13-15 12 12 12 13 13 29
Arab Najaf: J-M267 12 23 14 11 13-17 11 17 11 13 11 30
Arab Samawa: Predicted J1 12 23 14 11 13-17 11 17 12 13 11 29
Arab Maysan: J-M267 12 23 14 11 13-19 11 17 11 13 11 30
Fayli Kurd - Baghdad: Predicted J1 12 23 14 11 14-17 11 16 11 13 11 32
Arab Baghdad: Predicted J2 12 23 15 10 14-16 11 15 12 12 11 29
Yazeedi Alqosh (Sheikh cast): R1b 12 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 13 13 14 28
Arab Nasiriya: R-M269 12 24 14 10 11-15 12 12 12 13 13 29
Turkmen - Kirkuk: Predicted J2 12 24 14 10 13-13 11 15 12 14 11 30
Yazeedi Bashiqa (Kochak or Mareed cast): Predicted J2 12 24 14 10 18-19 11 15 12 13 11 29
Unknown Muslim Baghdad: R-M269 12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 11 13 13 30
Arab Karbala: R-M269 12 24 14 11 11-15 12 12 13 13 13 30
Arab Karbala: R-M269 12 24 14 12 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 29
Arab Basra: R-M198 12 24 15 11 11-14 12 12 10 14 11 31
Arab Wasit: Predicted J2 12 24 16 10 17-18 11 15 13 12 11 29
Arab Baghdad: J-M267 12 25 13 10 12-17 10 13 12 12 12 29
Mandaean Nasiriya: Q-M242 13 22 13 10 14-16 12 12 13 13 15 29
Gargari (disputed Arab or Kurd) from Zimmar: J-M172 13 22 14 10 12-15 11 16 11 14 11 31
Arab Baghdad: Predicted E1b 13 22 14 10 18-19 11 12 13 11 11 27
Kakaie Yarsani Kirkuk (Bawa cast): Predicted J2 13 22 15 10 12-18 11 16 12 12 11 28
Arab Basra: G-M201 13 22 15 10 15-17 11 12 11 12 12 29
Arab Babylon: Predicted E1b 13 23 11 10 15-18 11 12 11 13 12 31
Arab Basra: Predicted T 13 23 14 10 14-16 11 12 11 13 16 30
Arab Baghdad: Predicted T 13 23 14 10 15-16 11 12 12 14 13 31
Kurd Baghdad (Roots in Merivan, Iranian Kurdistan): E-M35 13 23 14 10 17-18 11 12 12 12 11 29
Arab Diyala: R-M173 13 23 15 10 12-12 12 12 11 13 13 30
Kurd Barzanji: Undetermined J2 or other? 13 23 15 10 13-15 11 15 11 13 11 30
Laz ethnic Babylon (roots in Caucasus/Anatolia): Undetermined hg T or R1b? 13 23 15 11 12-14 11 12 11 14 13 30
Arab Nasiriya: Predicted J2 13 23 15 11 15-19 11 15 13 13 11 30
Arab Maysan: Undetermined hg C or G or other? 13 23 15 9 12-13 11 13 11 12 11 28
Arab Basra: E-M35 13 24 13 10 15-19 11 12 11 13 11 30
Kurd Baban koy/Marga: E-M35 13 24 13 10 16-18 11 12 12 13 11 31
Mandaean Basra: E-M35 13 24 13 10 17-17 11 12 11 13 11 30
Arab Maysan: E-M35 13 24 14 10 18-20 11 12 12 14 11 31
Arab Babylon: E-M96 13 24 14 9 16-17 11 13 12 14 11 31
Arab Baghdad: R-M198 13 24 15 11 12-14 12 12 11 14 11 31
Arab Babylon: R-M173 14 25 15 11 11-15 12 12 10 13 11 31
Arab Nasiriya: Predicted Q 13 25 13 10 14-18 12 12 12 13 13 31
Arab Maysan: Predicted E1b 13 25 13 11 16-20 11 12 11 13 11 30
Fayli Kurd Nasiriya: E-M96 13 25 14 10 16-19 11 13 12 12 11 29
Chaldean Tellisqif: R-M198 13 25 16 10 11-14 12 12 10 13 11 30
Chaldean Batnaya: R-M198 13 25 16 10 11-14 12 14 10 14 11 31
Arab Karbala: R-M198 13 25 16 11 11-14 12 12 10 14 11 32
Arab Anbar: R-M198 13 26 16 11 11-14 12 12 10 13 11 29
Qaragul Arabized Turkic Nasiriya: R-M173 14 25 15 11 11-15 12 12 10 12 11 30
Arab Mosul: R-M198 14 26 16 10 11-14 12 12 10 12 11 29
Arab Nasiriya: G-M201 15 21 16 10 13-15 11 12 11 12 11 29
Yazeedi (Sheikh cast) Sinjar: R-M198 13 25 16 11 11-14 12 12 10 13 11 30
Yazeedi (Sheikh cast) Nineveh: R-M198 13 25 16 11 11-14 12 12 10 13 11 30

let me know if any of these results are of an interest to you. I'd love to hear any comments about unusual haplotypes.

ADW_1981
05-06-2018, 03:20 PM
Interesting that Yazeedis were determined to be ~30% R1b in a paper last year, but only 1/4 are R1b in this sample. I guess it's too small to determine much.

azucanc
05-06-2018, 09:55 PM
Interesting that Yazeedis were determined to be ~30% R1b in a paper last year, but only 1/4 are R1b in this sample. I guess it's too small to determine much.

Yes I've been looking for those Yazeedi R1b's. So far the Yazeedis I came across were all J2's and R1a's except this Yazeedi individual who turned out to be R1b. Out of the 8 or so Yazeedi tested in the Iraq project only one was R1b. Mind you Yazeedis follow a casts system which prohibits inter-cast marriages, also I expect to see regional differences amongst the various Yazeedi communities.

cali
05-06-2018, 11:48 PM
This kit is very interesting: T337538 alanbari Altamimi (IQ-Basra)

His eurogenes results (especially his k36) is a hefty outlier. He seems to be an Arabian implanted in Iraq.

What I find interesting is how Kurds in Iraq are genetically the same as their contemporaries, the Iranians. Yet there isn't a single significant Arabian-derived group in Iraq who have remained genetically the same as their Arabian contemporaries (for example: najdi saudis). It's very interesting that history played out like that.

By the way, does this kit, T160231, not have a YDNA assignment? Or is it withheld for privacy reasons?

azucanc
05-07-2018, 12:48 AM
This kit is very interesting: T337538 alanbari Altamimi (IQ-Basra)

His eurogenes results (especially his k36) is a hefty outlier. He seems to be an Arabian implanted in Iraq.

What I find interesting is how Kurds in Iraq are genetically the same as their contemporaries, the Iranians. Yet there isn't a single significant Arabian-derived group in Iraq who have remained genetically the same as their Arabian contemporaries (for example: najdi saudis). It's very interesting that history played out like that.

By the way, does this kit, T160231, not have a YDNA assignment? Or is it withheld for privacy reasons?

That's because T337538 alanbari Altamimi (IQ-Basra) has recent Arabian roots. His family settled recently in Iraq, around 2 or 3 generations ago.
As for T160231, he's J-M267. I just happened to upload his FF raw data before his Y-DNA result came out. why? is he an outlier too?

cali
05-07-2018, 02:59 AM
That's because T337538 alanbari Altamimi (IQ-Basra) has recent Arabian roots. His family settled recently in Iraq, around 2 or 3 generations ago.
As for T160231, he's J-M267. I just happened to upload his FF raw data before his Y-DNA result came out. why? is he an outlier too?

Ah, that makes a lot of sense then.

As for T160231 being an outlier, it would depend on the context, but that's not why I asked about his YDNA assignment. I was wondering if he was paternally Arabian because he has a lot of obvious Arabian ancestry (like 2/3rd or 3/4th Arabian). Seems like because he is a J1 carrier, that he probably does carry an Arabian subclade and therefore is paternally Arabian.

Thanks for the quick reply, it has answered the questions that I was curious about.

azucanc
05-08-2018, 08:43 PM
Ah, that makes a lot of sense then.

As for T160231 being an outlier, it would depend on the context, but that's not why I asked about his YDNA assignment. I was wondering if he was paternally Arabian because he has a lot of obvious Arabian ancestry (like 2/3rd or 3/4th Arabian). Seems like because he is a J1 carrier, that he probably does carry an Arabian subclade and therefore is paternally Arabian.

Thanks for the quick reply, it has answered the questions that I was curious about.

Is this based on the Arabian component in the Eurogenese calculator?

Yes, T160231 has some recent paternal (at least) nomadic Bedouin ancestry. they are Bedouins native to the southern Iraq desert and parts of Kuwait/north eastern Saudi. A genetic overlap shouldn't come as a surprise since there are no geographical barriers preventing those tribes from mixing with both native Mesopotamian village dwellers and inner Arabian nomads.

azucanc
05-08-2018, 08:46 PM
Today an unusual result was posted in the Iraq DNA project. The first Iraqi D-m173 Y-DNA, his haplotype is:

12 25 15 10 16-16 11 12 11 12 10 28

He is an Arab from Mosul, northern Iraq. Is this haplogroup/haplotype present elsewhere? any information about Mid eastern D-hg?

Helves
05-08-2018, 09:14 PM
Iraq DNA project Y-DNA statistics as of end of December 2017:

994 total
850 Iraqi Arabs (Including Iraqis of Arabized Persian, Armenian, Indian & Georgian roots)
50 Assyrians/Chaldeans/Syriacs (18 Assyrians, 18 Chaldeans, 14 Syriacs)
44 Kurds (including 6 Fayli Kurds, 1 Kakaie)
25 Iraqi Jews
5 Yazeedis
3 Shabaks
10 Mandaeans
7 Turkmen

Please note that only confirmed paternally Iraqi Y-DNA results were included. around 20-30 new samples were added to the project since December 2017.

Dumb question but where do you see theese peoples' ethnicity? On the FTDNA Iraqi Project I can only get the name of their earliest male ancestor + Y-DNA

azucanc
05-08-2018, 09:33 PM
Dumb question but where do you see theese peoples' ethnicity? On the FTDNA Iraqi Project I can only get the name of their earliest male ancestor + Y-DNA

I keep records of the ethnic background of each person tested with me (I personally tested a couple of hundreds) while the rest I tried to obtain information either from the person themselves if tested individually or try to figure it out based on the surname or the city/town/village they come from. Generally if im not sure about someone's ethnic background i's place them with Iraqi Arabs.

Helves
05-08-2018, 09:35 PM
I keep records of the ethnic background of each person tested with me (I personally tested a couple of hundreds) while the rest I tried to obtain information either from the person themselves if tested individually or try to figure it out based on the surname or the city/town/village they come from. Generally if im not sure about someone's ethnic background i's place them with Iraqi Arabs.

Well gj then. Any chance you can tell me what Y-DNA all the Assyrians/Syriacs/Chaldeans in your sampling belong to?

azucanc
05-08-2018, 10:20 PM
Quickly skimming though the list, there are at least 55 Assyrians/Chaldeans/Syriacs. They are:

17 R1b
9 J2
6 E1b
6 R1a
5 J1
5 T
3 G
1 L
1 F
1 Q (Used to be 2 but one Assyrian individual from Erbil decided to leave the project a while back)
1 R2

The R1b dominance is across all denominations. Samples include individuals from Mosul, Duhok, Kirkuk, Erbil, Anbar, Basra and Baghdad provinces.

Helves
05-08-2018, 10:37 PM
Quickly skimming though the list, there are at least 55 Assyrians/Chaldeans/Syriacs. They are:

17 R1b
9 J2
6 E1b
6 R1a
5 J1
5 T
3 G
1 L
1 F
1 Q (Used to be 2 but one Assyrian individual from Erbil decided to leave the project a while back)
1 R2

The R1b dominance is across all denominations. Samples include individuals from Mosul, Duhok, Kirkuk, Erbil, Anbar, Basra and Baghdad provinces.

Thanks! You are right R1b is quite frequent in Chaldeans and Nestorians atleast, not sure about the Orthodox though.
I have three relatives on 23andme from Ankawa(Erbil), all three Chaldeans who are R1b-L23(two of them) and the other T-M70.

azucanc
05-08-2018, 10:45 PM
Thanks! You are right R1b is quite frequent in Chaldeans and Nestorians atleast, not sure about the Orthodox though.
I have three relatives on 23andme from Ankawa(Erbil), all three Chaldeans who are R1b-L23(two of them) and the other T-M70.

It is also common amongst Syriac orthodox & Catholics too. I have Syriac individuals from Mosul, Bakhdida and Bartilla who are R1b-L23.

Helves
05-08-2018, 10:56 PM
It is also common amongst Syriac orthodox & Catholics too. I have Syriac individuals from Mosul, Bakhdida and Bartilla who are R1b-L23.

Yes ofc, though I was thinking more of Syriac Orthodox/Catholics, speakers of Central-Neo Aramaic from Tur Abdin. But I'm going offtopic as this thread is about Iraqi Y-DNA.

ms85
05-08-2018, 11:38 PM
Thanks! You are right R1b is quite frequent in Chaldeans and Nestorians atleast, not sure about the Orthodox though.
I have three relatives on 23andme from Ankawa(Erbil), all three Chaldeans who are R1b-L23(two of them) and the other T-M70.Where do you think R1b among Assyrians is from?

According to me there are some options and main options are: a) Sumerians, b) Hurians or c) Hittites.

Or do you think that those who spoke proto-Assyrians belonged to this haplogroup?

cali
05-08-2018, 11:39 PM
Is this based on the Arabian component in the Eurogenese calculator?

Yes, it is.

ms85
05-08-2018, 11:44 PM
Where do you think R1b among Assyrians is from?

According to me there are some options and main options are: a) Sumerians, b) Hurians or c) Hittites.

Or do you think that those who spoke proto-Assyrians belonged to this haplogroup?
Btw, If Assyrians got R1b from the Sumerians via the Akkadians, then we can assume that R1b was part of the proto-Assyrian people directly at the cradle of the Assyrian ethnicity.

Like I said, other option can be from the Hurrians, who got R1b from the Hittites. Or even Urartu-Hurrians/Armenians

Helves
05-09-2018, 12:05 AM
Where do you think R1b among Assyrians is from?

According to me there are some options and main options are: a) Sumerians, b) Hurians or c) Hittites.

Or do you think that those who spoke proto-Assyrians belonged to this haplogroup?

Probably from assimilated Indo-Europeans, maybe from Hurrians through Hitties or other Anatolian speakers?

Btw, If Assyrians got R1b from the Sumerians via the Akkadians, then we can assume that R1b was part of the proto-Assyrian people directly at the cradle of the Assyrian ethnicity.

Like I said, other option can be from the Hurrians, who got R1b from the Hittites. Or even Urartu-Hurrians/Armenians
Sadly I don't think we have any ancient Assyrian/Akkadian samples, but I guess it's possible it was present among Assyrians during the early period.

ms85
05-09-2018, 12:36 AM
Probably from assimilated Indo-Europeans, maybe from Hurrians through Hitties or other Anatolian speakers?

Sadly I don't think we have any ancient Assyrian/Akkadian samples, but I guess it's possible it was present among Assyrians during the early period.I'm positive that ancient Assyrian speakers assimilated many Indo-European speakers, because Assyrian was more dominant than Anatolian languages and Anatolian IEans like the Hittites took their language and became part of the Assyrian people.

But it is possible that R1b in Assyrians came from the Akkadians who assimilated many Sumerians. It is possible that ancient Sumerians were partly R1b people.


Both scenarios make sense, because Assyrians have a lot Iranian_neo_farmer DNA. And it could come from either Sumerians or Indo-European people from Anatolia, like the Hittites or even from the ancient Iranians.
But it could come from the Kura–Araxes culture which was also a R1b culture. According to the Armenian PIE model, Kura–Araxes culture from 4000BCE was related to the Maykop culture and therefore identified with the speakers of the Anatolian languages.

And we have got Y-DNA from Kura–Araxes culture. It was R1b.

But at the end of the day I'm sure that Sumerian culture, Kura-Araxes culture, Maykop culture, Leyla-Tepe culture were all related to each other to some degree.

Helves
05-09-2018, 01:05 AM
I'm positive that ancient Assyrian speakers assimilated many Indo-European speakers, because Assyrian was more dominant than Anatolian languages and Anatolian IEans like the Hittites took their language and became part of the Assyrian people.

But it is possible that R1b in Assyrians came from the Akkadians who assimilated many Sumerians. It is possible that ancient Sumerians were partly R1b people.


Both scenarios make sense, because Assyrians have a lot Iranian_neo_farmer DNA. And it could come from either Sumerians or Indo-European people from Anatolia, like the Hittites or even from the ancient Iranians.
But it could come from the Kura–Araxes culture which was also a R1b culture. According to the Armenian PIE model, Kura–Araxes culture from 4000BCE was related to the Maykop culture and therefore identified with the speakers of the Anatolian languages.

And we have got Y-DNA from Kura–Araxes culture. It was R1b.

But at the end of the day I'm sure that Sumerian culture, Kura-Araxes culture, Maykop culture, Leyla-Tepe culture were all related to each other to some degree.

I wanted to mention Kura Axes aswell but I don't think the one male sample from Kura Axes was R1b-M269+? Maybe I'm wrong though. I think R1b-M269 must've spread from North of the Caucasus during the Bronze Age(Kurgan hypothesis) , but it could've been present around the Northern Zagros and Eastern Anatolia already before the Yamnaya, I'm not entirely sure.

ms85
05-09-2018, 01:27 AM
I wanted to mention Kura Axes aswell but I don't think the one male sample from Kura Axes was R1b-M269+? Maybe I'm wrong though. I think R1b-M269 must've spread from North of the Caucasus during the Bronze Age(Kurgan hypothesis) , but it could've been present around the Northern Zagros and Eastern Anatolia already before the Yamnaya, I'm not entirely sure.If R1b-M269 was from the Steppes, Assyrians would have a lot of Steppes ancestry. But Assyrians have actually very low Steppes ancestry. Also Bronze Age IE Anatolians were also low of the Steppes ancestry ( https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybnv1qqiowbtfz0/Europe_arXiv.pdf?dl=0 ).

Assyrians assimilated many IE speakers, but Assyrians don't have much Steppes ancestry, why? Because the IE in Anatolia were not from the Steppes!


The irony is that Assyrians are more mixed with the ancient 'Indo-Europeans' than many so called 'Indo-European speakers' in Europe.

Helves
05-09-2018, 01:33 AM
If R1b-M269 was from the Steppes, Assyrians would have a lot of Steppes ancestry. But Assyrians have actually very low Steppes ancestry. Also Bronze Age IE Anatolians were also low of the Steppes ancestry ( https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybnv1qqiowbtfz0/Europe_arXiv.pdf?dl=0 ).

Assyrians assimilated many IE speakers, but Assyrians don't have much Steppes ancestry, why? Because the IE in Anatolia were not from the Steppes!


The irony is that Assyrians are more mixed with the ancient 'Indo-Europeans' than many so called 'Indo-European speakers' in Europe.

You are forgetting all the bottlenecking the Assyrian population has gone through, just 100 years ago nearly all Nestorians were wiped out. I think we have very different ratios of haplgroups compared to say 1000 or even 500 years ago.

ms85
05-09-2018, 01:42 AM
You are forgetting all the bottlenecking the Assyrian population has gone through, just 100 years ago nearly all Nestorians were wiped out. I think we have very different ratios of haplgroups compared to say 1000 or even 500 years ago.Ok, but the point is that R1b is a dominant Y-DNA haplogroup in ALL different Assyrian groups from all parts. Assyrians belong to different Christian sects and different 'ancient' language dialects, their culture is very diverse. But still R1b is dominant (once again) in ALL Assyrian groups. Many tribes were wiped out, but still some survived and preserved their own groups.

If Assyrians were all the same, I would consider bottle neck effect. But Assyrians are very diverse and that makes bottle necking very unlikely.


IEan Armenians have very much R1b and Armenians are also very low of Steppes ancestry. Don't you see the pattern, something is going on...

Helves
05-09-2018, 01:57 AM
Ok, but the point is that R1b is a dominant Y-DNA haplogroup in ALL different Assyrian groups from all parts. Assyrians belong to different Christian sects and different language dialects, their culture is very diverse. But still R1b is dominant (once again) in ALL Assyrian groups. Many tribes were wiped out, but still some survived and preserved their own groups.

If Assyrians were all the same, I would consider bottle neck effect. But Assyrians are very diverse and that makes bottle necking very unlikely.


Armenians have very much R1b and Armenians are also very low of Steppes ancestry. Don't you see the pattern, something is going on...

Yeah that's true, though all Assyrians regardless of Church have probably been heavily affected by genetic bottlenecking. I mean it's not something out of the usual though right? Finns have 5-6% Siberian input but 50-60% N1c. So far it seems as though R1b-M269 spread via the Pontic Steppe as we've had quite a lot of pre-Bronze Age aDNA from Anatolia, Iran and Armenia but no M269 yet with the exception of the Hajji firuz outlier who many believe will actually be dated to the Bronze Age.

And also as diverse our culture might seem due to isolation there have been a lot of mixing with different villages. My family is from Ankawa in Erbil and nearly all families here can trace some of their ancestors to the Nineveh plains, Hakkari region or from villages close to the Turkish-Iraqi-Iranian border.

ms85
05-09-2018, 02:12 AM
Yeah that's true, though all Assyrians regardless of Church have probably been heavily affected by genetic bottlenecking. I mean it's not something out of the usual though right? Finns have 5-6% Siberian input but 50-60% N1c. So far it seems as though R1b-M269 spread via the Pontic Steppe as we've had quite a lot of pre-Bronze Age aDNA from Anatolia, Iran and Armenia but no M269 yet with the exception of the Hajji firuz outlier who many believe will actually be dated to the Bronze Age.

And also as diverse our culture might seem due to isolation there have been a lot of mixing with different villages. My family is from Ankawa in Erbil and nearly all families here can trace some of their ancestors to the Nineveh plains, Hakkari region or from villages close to the Turkish-Iraqi-Iranian border.50-60% N1c in Finns is in their DNA. It is part of their EHG. EHG is a very mixed component. EHG = WHG + West Siberian HG + some other ..

EHG is partly 'Mongoloid', like N1c is. N1c1 is absorbed into EHG.

Y-DNA hg. N1c1 = EHG auDNA component.

Fact is that the more EHG you are, the more 'Mongoloid'/Uralic/Finno-Ugrian you are.

https://s9.postimg.cc/raf1u7obz/sad.jpg


R1b-M269 spread via the Pontic Steppe into Europe. But in the Pontic Steppe is from the Near East. Bronze Age Anatolians from the same era and region as Hittites, Mitanni and other ancient IEan speakers don't have much of the Steppes ancestry.

It is 100% certain that R1b in Yamnaya was from the Near East! R1b in Yamnaya is very different from the ancient R1b's in Europe


'but the lack of steppe ancestry in the few known samples from Bronze Age Anatolia' (p. 5, https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybnv1qqiowbtfz0/Europe_arXiv.pdf?dl=0 )

ataneojr1
06-26-2018, 08:48 PM
Curious if any Iraqis have Ydna F/K/P?
Mtdna L/M/N?

azucanc
07-10-2018, 11:00 PM
Curious if any Iraqis have Ydna F/K/P?
Mtdna L/M/N?


Yes Ydna F & K exist in very sall numbers
Mtdna L & M also exist but im yet to see an Iraqi N Mtdna