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Peter MacDonald
12-19-2016, 02:45 AM
Hello everyone,

Wondering if anyone in the group knows or can point me to Y Haplogroup distributions in the British Isles (primarily wrt Scotland, Ireland and Wales)? Ideally one for the breakdown off all Haplogroups and another for the breakdown of R1B groups in Scotland, Ireland and Wales?

Thank you.

Peter MacDonald

Celt_??
12-19-2016, 03:44 AM
MitchellSince1893 posted some data and distribution maps here:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?6154-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-Percentages-and-maps-for-England-Source-FTDNA-Y-DNA-projects

And you are welcome to view by collection of haplogroup distribution maps on Pinterest.com:

https://www.pinterest.com/nsx944/

Celt_??
12-19-2016, 05:35 PM
13161

Dubhthach
12-20-2016, 12:13 PM
Busby paper as published by the Royal Society is really the only recent scientific paper that has reasonable large sample sets and some sorta view into R1b diversity in Ireland and Britain.

I found a forum post of mine from 2011 on another site where I looked at Busby stats (2011 ... jaysuz!!), in it I only used the sample sets with reasonable sizes, so I left some of them out in that forum post.


West Ireland -- 67 samples

L21 = 73.1%
U106 = 4.5%
U152 = 1.5%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 7.5%


South Ireland -- 89 samples

L21 = 74.2%
U106 = 3.4%
U152 = 1.1%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 7.9%


East Ireland -- 149 samples

L21 = 71.1%
U106 = 6.7%
U152 = 4%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 7.4%


North Ireland -- 72 samples

L21 = 79.2%
U106 = 4.2%
U152 = 1.4%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 4.2%


West Scotland -- 21 samples

L21 = 66.7%
U106 = 9.5%
U152 = 1.4%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = --/--


North West Scotland -- 80 samples

L21 = 48.8%
U106 = 6.3%
U152 = --/--
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 11.3%


North East Scotland -- 67 samples

L21 = 52.2%
U106 = 6.3%
U152 = 19.4%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 6.0%


North Wales -- 120 samples

L21 = 45%
U106 = 9.2%
U152 = 7.5%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 17.5%


South Wales -- 9 samples

L21 = 55.6%
U106 = 22.2%
U152 = --/--
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 11.1%


England Northwest -- 47 samples

L21 = 40.4%
U106 = 21.3%
U152 = 6.4%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 10.6%


England Southwest -- 48 samples

L21 = 37.5%
U106 = 25.0%
U152 = 8.3%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 6.3%


Central England -- 165 samples

L21 = 16.4%
U106 = 18.2%
U152 = 9.7%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 15.2%


East England -- 172 samples

L21 = 12.8%
U106 = 25.6%
U152 = 8.1%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 17.4%


England Southeast -- 52 samples

L21 = 15.4%
U106 = 26.9%
U152 = 15.4%
P312 (non L21/ non U152) = 21.2%



A subsequent forum post of mine where I combined all of the Ireland groups into one result in following breakdown for Irish samples

Ireland n=476
L21 = 70.59%
U152= 2.31%
P312+ (U152-, L21-) = 8.40%
U106 = 5.25%

kevinduffy
12-20-2016, 01:48 PM
Busby paper as published by the Royal Society is really the only recent scientific paper that has reasonable large sample sets and some sorta view into R1b diversity in Ireland and Britain.

I found a forum post of mine from 2011 on another site where I looked at Busby stats (2011 ... jaysuz!!), in it I only used the sample sets with reasonable sizes, so I left some of them out in that forum post.




A subsequent forum post of mine where I combined all of the Ireland groups into one result in following breakdown for Irish samples

Ireland n=476
L21 = 70.59%
U152= 2.31%
P312+ (U152-, L21-) = 8.40%
U106 = 5.25%

Did the paper specify which counties were included in the North Ireland group?

rms2
12-20-2016, 02:28 PM
Maciamo Hay's maps at Eupedia, based as they are on Busby and some subsequent papers, seem to be generally accurate. Note the differences in frequency scale from one map to another. They are not all the same.

13194 13195 13196 13197

I did not see maps for DF19 and DF99.

ADW_1981
12-20-2016, 03:09 PM
DF17+ is likely a strong candidate for some of the undefined P312+. It has a strong British-Irish distribution in contrast to its close cousin Z220 which is more on the European mainland. Both share the rare off modal DYS448=18, but DF17 has a little more variance on this marker.

Dubhthach
12-20-2016, 03:10 PM
Did the paper specify which counties were included in the North Ireland group?

Nope, they give latitude/longitude. One sample was centered in Belfast, though that might have been just to to give generic signpost, the other one was in Magherfelt if I recall (South Derry), would need to look at the spreadsheet again to be certain.

kevinduffy
12-20-2016, 03:58 PM
Nope, they give latitude/longitude. One sample was centered in Belfast, though that might have been just to to give generic signpost, the other one was in Magherfelt if I recall (South Derry), would need to look at the spreadsheet again to be certain.

I would have thought that 79.2% for L21 would have been a bit high for that part of Ireland considering the large unionist population and the fact that L21 usually has lower levels in Scotland and England where the Planters came from.

Dewsloth
12-20-2016, 04:31 PM
Maciamo Hay's maps at Eupedia, based as they are on Busby and some subsequent papers, seem to be generally accurate. Note the differences in frequency scale from one map to another. They are not all the same.

13194 13195 13196 13197

I did not see maps for DF19 and DF99.

Often overlooked. :(

The_Lyonnist
12-20-2016, 04:37 PM
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-L21.png

Dubhthach
12-20-2016, 04:46 PM
I would have thought that 79.2% for L21 would have been a bit high for that part of Ireland considering the large unionist population and the fact that L21 usually has lower levels in Scotland and England where the Planters came from.

Well depends on wether they had sample bias, I believe in one sample center in Belfast they had like 40% M222 which only makes sense when ye take into account migration to Belfast given it's rapid expansion during the industrial revolution.

It's quite possible that they didn't factor in community background when sampling, Magherfelt after all is nationalist majority region of South Derry (Mid Ulster is 63.8% Catholic)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Religion_Or_Religion_Brought_Up_In_Northern_Irelan d_New_Districts_2011_Census.png/904px-Religion_Or_Religion_Brought_Up_In_Northern_Irelan d_New_Districts_2011_Census.png

vettor
12-20-2016, 05:28 PM
Maciamo Hay's maps at Eupedia, based as they are on Busby and some subsequent papers, seem to be generally accurate. Note the differences in frequency scale from one map to another. They are not all the same.

13194 13195 13196 13197

I did not see maps for DF19 and DF99.

IIRC, there are some maps on this site by a member called "Passa" or similar