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8075
12-19-2016, 09:11 PM
Hi everyone,

I was recently tested through YSEQ's R1a-Z284 panel and it pinned me down as YP1420. I'd expected a different subclade and this was something of a surprise. I'm of Scottish descent and my family is originally from the Highlands/Western Isles (the exact area is lost in time).

I know that R1a in Scotland is considered strong evidence of Viking/Norse paternal heritage, but I cannot find much info specifically on YP1420. This forum mentions it in another thread and there are a couple of other references available through a Google search, but that's pretty much it. If anyone has any knowledge or suggestions about the YP1420 subclade I'd be very interested in hearing it. I'd also welcome any suggestions of sites or forums where I could do more research. I'm not a member of FTDNA and I'm a bit loath to pay for my Y-DNA and panel testing all over again, but don't hold back if you think that's my best/only bet.

One other thing - despite learning a lot in the past several weeks, I'm very new to DNA science. I apologize if this post comes across as noob-ish or if my questions break some kind of forum convention.

Thanks in advance,
A

angscoire
12-27-2016, 06:34 PM
YP1420 is an uncommon subclade of the large 'Norse' CTS4179 group , which is about 3,000 years old. See tree below for information on the descendent branches of CTS4179 .

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-CTS4179/

YP1420 individuals are found in Norway and Britain. It could have arrived in Scotland in an earlier period (after 1,000 BCE) or with Vikings - we don't know. More YP1420 individuals need to take the BigY for more to be discovered about it. There isn't much specific info on it anywhere really - only on its 'father' clade CTS4179 . See below for instance .

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2865-Scandinavian-R1a

TimC
12-29-2016, 02:37 PM
Hi everyone,

I was recently tested through YSEQ's R1a-Z284 panel and it pinned me down as YP1420. I'd expected a different subclade and this was something of a surprise. I'm of Scottish descent and my family is originally from the Highlands/Western Isles (the exact area is lost in time).

I know that R1a in Scotland is considered strong evidence of Viking/Norse paternal heritage, but I cannot find much info specifically on YP1420. This forum mentions it in another thread and there are a couple of other references available through a Google search, but that's pretty much it. If anyone has any knowledge or suggestions about the YP1420 subclade I'd be very interested in hearing it. I'd also welcome any suggestions of sites or forums where I could do more research. I'm not a member of FTDNA and I'm a bit loath to pay for my Y-DNA and panel testing all over again, but don't hold back if you think that's my best/only bet.

One other thing - despite learning a lot in the past several weeks, I'm very new to DNA science. I apologize if this post comes across as noob-ish or if my questions break some kind of forum convention.

Thanks in advance,
A

I found your post in my own search for my haplotype, YP1420. The Chambers of County Mayo, Ireland are YP1420. Legend has it that the original name was MacAmbrois, Anglicized to McCambridge or Cambridge, and then to Chambers in Northern Ireland. McCambridge is still a common name in the Glens of Antrim. The families came over with the MacDonalds from Kintyre and Islay, a 20 mile sea crossing from Kintyre, Scotland. Legend also has it that the Chambers families were in County Tyrone and came into Mayo before Cromwell. I believe that they were Redshanks (Scottish seasonal mercenaries who fought for the O'Neals against the English.) They probably left Tyrone after the 1641 revolt failure before they were killed by Covenanter Redshanks.
According to the Clan Donald website, the Chambers who are a Sept family of the Clan are 1 in 210 of people named Chambers. There are many unrelated patrilineal lines.
I did take my test with FTDNA and am a member of several projects including "R1a and Subclades" and "R1a and all Subclades". I don't believe that you can join these projects but they are open to the public to view. YSearch was setup by FTDNA for others to join but it's not as comprehensive.
The R1a projects have several YP1420 haplotypes; typically Norwegian. Other than Chambers, there are currently two Scottish names: Colquhoun (Calhoun) and McIntosh, both from the Highlands. In looking at their clan/surname projects the YP1420 is an anomaly; probably a "non-paternal event" from a Norwegian Viking.
Typically the majority Scottish R1a Haplogroup people test positive for RL176, often called the Scottish mutation. YP1420 is a different branch off CTS4179.
We are truly a minority of a minority.
I am very interested in your Surname. I have been looking for a YP1420 (L176-) from the Western Scottish Isles just to prove the Chambers legend likely. There is also a likelihood that my Chambers Family from County Mayo descended from the Chambers Family of Hertfordshire. Their descendants in Britain are Norman Haplogroup "I" but that doesn't rule out a "non-paternal event", i.e. a Viking in the woodpile. (That also happened at a later date and the most famous British Chambers are bastard descendants of Sir Stepney.)
Thanks
Tim Chambers

8075
12-29-2016, 11:12 PM
I found your post in my own search for my haplotype, YP1420. The Chambers of County Mayo, Ireland are YP1420. Legend has it that the original name was MacAmbrois, Anglicized to McCambridge or Cambridge, and then to Chambers in Northern Ireland. McCambridge is still a common name in the Glens of Antrim. The families came over with the MacDonalds from Kintyre and Islay, a 20 mile sea crossing from Kintyre, Scotland. Legend also has it that the Chambers families were in County Tyrone and came into Mayo before Cromwell. I believe that they were Redshanks (Scottish seasonal mercenaries who fought for the O'Neals against the English.) They probably left Tyrone after the 1641 revolt failure before they were killed by Covenanter Redshanks.
According to the Clan Donald website, the Chambers who are a Sept family of the Clan are 1 in 210 of people named Chambers. There are many unrelated patrilineal lines.
I did take my test with FTDNA and am a member of several projects including "R1a and Subclades" and "R1a and all Subclades". I don't believe that you can join these projects but they are open to the public to view. YSearch was setup by FTDNA for others to join but it's not as comprehensive.
The R1a projects have several YP1420 haplotypes; typically Norwegian. Other than Chambers, there are currently two Scottish names: Colquhoun (Calhoun) and McIntosh, both from the Highlands. In looking at their clan/surname projects the YP1420 is an anomaly; probably a "non-paternal event" from a Norwegian Viking.
Typically the majority Scottish R1a Haplogroup people test positive for RL176, often called the Scottish mutation. YP1420 is a different branch off CTS4179.
We are truly a minority of a minority.
I am very interested in your Surname. I have been looking for a YP1420 (L176-) from the Western Scottish Isles just to prove the Chambers legend likely. There is also a likelihood that my Chambers Family from County Mayo descended from the Chambers Family of Hertfordshire. Their descendants in Britain are Norman Haplogroup "I" but that doesn't rule out a "non-paternal event", i.e. a Viking in the woodpile. (That also happened at a later date and the most famous British Chambers are bastard descendants of Sir Stepney.)
Thanks
Tim Chambers

Hi Tim, I wanted to send you a PM but my post count is too low. I'll reply here instead, just with some identifying personal details redacted.

I am indeed a member of Clan Donald - certainly by convention, and possibly by blood. Here's the story of my paternal line:

My great x3 grandfather was born in Inverness-Shire in 1775. We do not know for certain what his surname was. At some point, he was evicted from the land he grew up on, and he took to piracy against the English Crown. He must have gained some notoriety because a bounty was put on his head. He was sheltered by Clanranald and moved to Nova Scotia in 1800 at the age of 25, where he married and had a large family. We know for certain that he spoke Gaelic and he was Catholic. My now-deceased uncle was once told by his great-uncle that our ancestor was not originally from Clanranald but instead came from a "lesser sept". There are some other place-names and guesses in my family lore but these are the only "facts" that we have.

I originally tested with YSEQ so I could economically see where I fit into the Clan Donald USA DNA Project. The results came back as R1a but not as a direct descendant of Somerled or John of Islay. Then my subclade came back and threw me off even further - like yourself, I have only been able to find a few references to it, mostly in Norway. I just learnt that YSEQ is further testing me for YP5314, which is apparently a recently-discovered branch of YP1420.

I hope this helps - it may not give you the evidence you're looking for but it certainly does nothing to disprove your family's legend. If you haven't already, you should check out the Clan Donald DNA Project (clandonaldusadotorg).

TimC
12-30-2016, 04:24 PM
Thanks for the info. I haven't looked at the Clan Donald website in years and will check it out again.
Inverness Shire is huge and contains many Clans. Catholic and Gaelic speaking is a clue for the times your ancestor lived as it was for my ancestors. The closer to the old Kingdom of Dalriada in the Western Isles the more likely Gaelic was your first language. Most clans were Presbyterian or CofE by the 18th Century.
As far as being a man with a bounty on his head, remember that the Crown owned everything and killing a deer for food garnered a death sentence in the 17th century and was still a serious crime in the 18th century.
I'll keep looking for new YP1420's in the various projects and post when I see one.

Roger Wilco
02-21-2017, 07:22 PM
Greetings from Sweden;

I've tested Y37-DNA at FTDNA and was originally classified as haplogroup R-M198, which later was specified as CTS4179. Since this is the subclade of L448, I've expected to be classified as belonging to the "Young Scandinavian branch" rather than the "Scottish" or "Old Viking". As recommended I've taken the Z284 SNP Pack to more narrow down my heritage. Results are expected now late in February or early March. Meanwhile however I've been classified as belonging to R-YP1420!

Like some of you I searched for this to learn more and ended up here!. As far as I can see I'm the only one tested from Sweden so far having this haplogroup. Norway and Scotland being predominant (of 7 R-YP1420 NO 3, SCO 2, IRE 1) and "TimC" it seems, being one of these. The seven (7) of the 5,500+ tested in the database are therefore a very small and interesting group I seem to belong to - among with you then. In the same groups are R-M1982, R-Z283, R-L448, R-CTS4179 not being tested further, so additional persons may turn up.

I have no Scottish ancestry as far as I know, but would really enjoy that. My paternal ancestry as far back as my 8th and 9th great-grandfather all the way to my father have been born and living in the same mid-central Swedish village since the early 1600's and maybe late 1500's.

Looking forward to learn more from your input, and hopefully will have more details in a couple of weeks on my origin beyond YP1420.

//"Roger"

PS I pressed the wrong sex icon when I registered :-)

Roger Wilco
02-22-2017, 12:38 PM
Found an updated version of the R1a clades with the main SNP markers. See downstream of CTS4179.

14180

TimC
03-09-2017, 02:33 PM
Hi Roger
YP1420 seems to be rare indeed although few people have tested this far. I expect that your ancestor in Sweden emigrated from Norway. It seems our R1a ancestors worked their way from Eastern Europe and came into Scandinavia on a northern route, eventually settling in Western Norway.
With such a rare sub-haplotype it should be easy to trace the migration from Norway, but not enough people have been tested. Although my family is quite large in County Mayo, Ireland and relatives in the United States, so far, only a couple of names crop up in the Scottish Highlands and, according to their clan name DNA projects, the YP1420 (let alone R1a) is an anomaly.
Tim

Roger Wilco
03-10-2017, 09:53 AM
Hi TimC

yes, it would be fun to trace the connection to a common ancestor, probably in Norway, that then sent descendants east to Sweden and west to the Bristish isles. I've trace common markers in the Clan Donald project, an early branch consisting of McIntosh lineage, but as you say, too few have tested. My next goal is to do the Big Y test at FTDNA later this spring to get a comprehensive view.

Currently the R-YP1420 people/common markers origin can be seen in the map attached.14463

TimC
03-26-2017, 03:32 PM
Roger Wilco
It looks like CTS4179 came into Sweeden fairly early. See
http://sjolunds.se/dna-genealogi/?p=167
Tim

Roger Wilco
04-23-2017, 01:43 PM
OK guys, I have now ordered the Big Y upgrade to my DNA test. We'll see if we can go downstream of YP1420 or get further details/confirmation of the haplogroup and SNP's.

Roger Wilco
05-20-2017, 06:12 PM
Already seeing some results of the Big Y, pending YFull review I've now formed a new subclade with four Norwegians. R-YP1420 > R-YP6306. You can note that being YP5314- the new YP6306 is a Scandinavian branch. TimC needs to test Big Y ;-)

16188

Virginian Norseman
05-31-2017, 11:32 AM
I have not been confirmed YP1420 (am tested and confirmed CTS4179), but my kit is listed under it (N55849) at the R1A Project. When was YP1420 born?

Michał
05-31-2017, 12:55 PM
I have not been confirmed YP1420 (am tested and confirmed CTS4179), but my kit is listed under it (N55849) at the R1A Project. When was YP1420 born?
According to YFull, the most recent common ancestor of three BigY-tested members of clade YP1420 (which includes one Norwegian and two Scotsmen from a downstream subclade YP5314) lived about 2600 (1850-3500) years ago, but the YP1420 mutation itself could have been born significantly earlier (and YFull estimates that this could have happen between 3000 and 2600 years ago).
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1420/

8075
08-15-2017, 03:26 AM
I'm really on the edge of ordering the Big-Y test, but I'm doing mental gymnastics to try and justify the cost. Have any of the YP1420 folk learned much from it? Or should I say, is it pointing you in directions that you think make it worth the price tag?

Roger Wilco
08-24-2017, 06:53 PM
Well I've recently formed a new subclade, R-Y31443 which is placed separately from the Scottish R-YP5314. I know from the coadmin of the project that there is data available from Big Y which should support my data with Norwegian data to form a newer subclade, R-YP6306, but this information is not yet sent to YFull... :-( https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1420/ ( YTree v5.05 at 30 July 2017)

8075
09-02-2017, 03:43 PM
I pulled the trigger on the Big-Y, I couldn't pass up FTDNA's August deal. My results are due in October or November.

clgjerde
09-29-2017, 04:30 AM
I am also R-YP1420 and living in the US. My ancestor lived in Romsdal Norway. I have been told I am most likely from the Young Scandinavian line.

Roger Wilco
10-08-2017, 03:46 PM
Noted that 2 more YP1420 confirmed from last batches of Big Y: :)

218192 Chambers-IRELAND Z284>S4458>S5301>S5153>L448>CTS4179>YP1420
593688 MacDonald-SCOTLAND Z284>S4458>S5301>S5153>L448>CTS4179>YP1420

TimC
01-19-2018, 07:39 PM
I have done the Big Y test. Downstream of YP 1420 is haplogroup BY30235. So far I only have one match of Norwegian ancestry.

I found it interesting that one of my YP 1420 matches is a MacDonald. I'm getting closer to proving that my family came into Ireland with the MacDonalds.

Roger Wilco
01-25-2018, 06:56 PM
Interesting Tim.

As you probably know you and I match as well at the YP1420-level (I have 4 others of which the 1 Norwegian match with R-YP6306 now have provided the BAM file, so next version of YFull will be a new branch, I'm currently Y31443 in YFull).

The others are a Calhoun (YP5314), a MacDonald and McIntosh (BY30775) and you (BY30235). Small steps.... :-)

Roger Wilco
08-03-2018, 07:47 PM
New update from YFull.org : The elusive BAM file from a Norwegian sample has now been analysed and confirmed https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1420/

R-YP1420*
-R-Y31443
-R-Y31443*
-R-YP6306 * YP6307 * YP6308 +3 SNPs formed 1350 ybp, TMRCA 700 ybp
ID-NOR
ID-SWE

Roger Wilco
03-16-2019, 04:29 PM
New update from YFull.org : The BAM file from a Norwegian sample has now been analysed and confirmed as R-YP6306.

At the end of 2018 another Swedish sample tested Big Y and is now confimed a new subclade with me as, R-Y88276, separated from the Norwegian. Best of all, this sample confirms origin from two brothers in the same place, their father now our paternal common ancestor. See https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1420/

Dbm4
06-23-2019, 03:53 PM
Hello:

My FTDNA results indicate that my Haplogroup is also YP 1420. I am still awaiting results of the Big Y 700 test. From very sketchy family info, my paternal line may have come from Barra, yet my Haplogroup is much closer to the clan MacDonald line than the clan MacNeil (my surname) I'm Looking forward to joining discussions related to this rare Haplogroup.

Thanks DBM