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Missouri1455
12-22-2016, 09:34 PM
How old is this haplogroup? where did it originate? is it considered the head of the semitic tree? because im not finding much information on it

Thank you in advance

Agamemnon
12-22-2016, 10:12 PM
J1-Z1878's TMRCA is at least 7,500 years old, if not 7,800 years old. It's a major branch of P58, the most prominent in fact, since it gave birth to the most successful J1 lineages under P58. Despite the fact that most of those who carry sub-branches of Z1878 are Semitic speakers and that the Proto-Semites are likely to have carried most if not all of these sub-branches, I'd argue Z1878 itself is too old to have anything to do with Semitic.

Missouri1455
12-22-2016, 10:18 PM
J1-Z1878's TMRCA is at least 7,500 years old, if not 7,800 years old. It's a major branch of P58, the most prominent in fact, since it gave birth to the most successful J1 lineages under P58. Despite the fact that most of those who carry sub-branches of Z1878 are Semitic speakers and that the Proto-Semites are likely to have carried most if not all of these sub-branches, I'd argue Z1878 itself is too old to have anything to do with Semitic.

Interesting stuff, What countries have the highest rates of it? so did originate in the fertile crescent?
if were to speak about abraham would he have been the founder of this tree?

Agamemnon
12-22-2016, 10:55 PM
Interesting stuff, What countries have the highest rates of it? so did originate in the fertile crescent?
if were to speak about abraham would he have been the founder of this tree?

Like P58, Z1878 is widespread throughout SW Asia, IMO there isn't much of a difference between P58 and Z1878 in terms of frequency. As to where it originated, I have no idea to be perfectly honest, in terms of likeliness I'd point to the eastern parts of the Fertile Crescent (Iraq, Syria, Iran), but I could easily be wrong. J1 has proven to be a very elusive marker in ancient sampling so far, which is surprising considering how common this lineage now is, in many ways this reminds me of I1's equally elusive nature in most studies to date.

If we admit that Abraham did in fact exist (his historicity is doubtful to say the least), he would belong to a later time frame than both Z1878 and Common Semitic (AKA Proto-Semitic), so no, he could not have had a major role in the spread or genesis of either of the above.

Missouri1455
12-23-2016, 12:00 AM
Like P58, Z1878 is widespread throughout SW Asia, IMO there isn't much of a difference between P58 and Z1878 in terms of frequency. As to where it originated, I have no idea to be perfectly honest, in terms of likeliness I'd point to the eastern parts of the Fertile Crescent (Iraq, Syria, Iran), but I could easily be wrong. J1 has proven to be a very elusive marker in ancient sampling so far, which is surprising considering how common this lineage now is, in many ways this reminds me of I1's equally elusive nature in most studies to date.

If we admit that Abraham did in fact exist (his historicity is doubtful to say the least), he would belong to a later time frame than both Z1878 and Common Semitic (AKA Proto-Semitic), so no, he could not have had a major role in the spread or genesis of either of the above.

Interesting, so supposadly what year would have the common semetic era started? Would the akkadians be the first semitic group to exist?

Agamemnon
12-23-2016, 12:37 AM
Interesting, so supposadly what year would have the common semetic era started? Would the akkadians be the first semitic group to exist?

We can't say for sure when Common Semitic proper emerged as a spoken language and became distinct from pre-Proto-Semitic, what we do know however is when Common Semitic ceased to exist as a spoken language, the break up of Proto-Semitic can thus be circumscribed to the first half of the 4th millenium BCE (so between 6,000 and 5,500 years ago). The Akkadians, while tied to the earliest branch (East Semitic) to part from the Semitic trunk, emerged as a distinct group only during the course of the 3rd millenium BCE.