PDA

View Full Version : Cushitic haplogroup



Missouri1455
12-28-2016, 05:53 PM
So what haplogroups fit the criteria for cushitic people? because im researching and there seems to be plenty of haplogroups that belong to the horn of africa but which ones are considered historically and genetically the first "cushitic" haplogroup?

Thank you in advance

Angoliga
01-20-2017, 01:23 AM
Here's some threads from a very informative blog that might answer some of your questions:


• Cushitic Admixture Levels: Somalis as a proxy (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ca/2015/02/cushitic-admixture-levels-somalis-as.html)

• South Cushitic Admixture in Southeast Africa (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ca/2015/05/south-cushitic-admixture-in-southeast.html) (*although this particular thread focuses on Cushitic populations in South-East Africa, there's still mention and comparison of the dominant Cushitic haplogroups found in the horn)

Missouri1455
01-20-2017, 03:00 AM
Here's some threads from a very informative blog that might answer some of your questions:


• Cushitic Admixture Levels: Somalis as a proxy (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ca/2015/02/cushitic-admixture-levels-somalis-as.html)

• South Cushitic Admixture in Southeast Africa (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ca/2015/05/south-cushitic-admixture-in-southeast.html) (*although this particular thread focuses on Cushitic populations in South-East Africa, there's still mention and comparison of the dominant Cushitic haplogroups found in the horn)

Thank you for the informative information bro, but in terms of Y-dna which haplogroup is considered the main haplogroup for Cushites? E-V1515?

Angoliga
01-20-2017, 04:05 AM
Thank you for the informative information bro, but in terms of Y-dna which haplogroup is considered the main haplogroup for Cushites? E-V1515?

Np compadre!

Good question - I wish I had an answer for you.
PM any of these members and they'll be glad to either point you in the right direction for references or provide you with a thorough response: Awale, PuntDNALKing, Lank, Drobbah, Deftextra


Here's some more Ethiopian Y-DNA info from which you might draw some conclusions; there's E-V1515 data as well: ETHIO HELIX ኢትዮ:ሒሊክስ (http://ethiohelix.blogspot.ca/)

ThirdTerm
01-24-2017, 10:01 PM
The Kingdom of Kush was an ancient Nubian kingdom and mtDNA haplogroup M2 was found at the highest frequency in Northern and Southern Nubia at 39.1%. A back migration from the Indian subcontinent to East Africa has been suggested by González et al. (2007) as African M lineages are younger than Indian M lineages. The first M1 backflow to Africa, dated around 30,000 ya, could be forced by climatic conditions.



Mitochondrial M lineages in Ethiopia were first detected by RFLP analyses [51]. To explain its presence in that area the authors suggested two possibilities: 1) the marker was acquired by Ethiopians through interchanges with Asians or 2) it was present in the ancient Ethiopian population and was carried to Asia by groups who migrated out of Africa. Later, the second hypothesis was favored and a single origin of haplogroup M in Africa was suggested, dating the split between Asian and African M branches older than 50,000 ya [22]. Although not completely discarding this last scenario other authors considered that the disjunctive was unsettled. The vast diversity of haplogroup M in Asia compared to Africa pointed to the possibility that M1 is a branch that traces a backflow from Asia to Africa [7,23]. Due to the scarcity of M lineages in the Near East and its richness in India, this region was proposed as the most probable origin of the M1 ancestor [7,52]. However, recent studies based on Indian mtDNA sequences [24,25] have not found any positive evidence that M1 originated in India. Nevertheless, the inclusion of M1 complete mtDNA lineages in the construction of the macrohaplogroup M phylogeny clearly established that the antiquity of Indian lineages, as M2, as compared to Ethiopian M1 lineages support an Asian origin of macrohaplogroup M [24].
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1945034/

Angoliga
02-24-2017, 04:57 AM
The Kingdom of Kush was an ancient Nubian kingdom and mtDNA haplogroup M2 was found at the highest frequency in Northern and Southern Nubia at 39.1%. A back migration from the Indian subcontinent to East Africa has been suggested by González et al. (2007) as African M lineages are younger than Indian M lineages. The first M1 backflow to Africa, dated around 30,000 ya, could be forced by climatic conditions.

"Based on mitochondrial phylogeography it was proposed that M lineages expanded with the coastal route to southern Asia and Oceania"

Interesting paper, that might explain some of the ASI and SE Asian affinities I get on different ancient admix-calcs -- there's even the odd accompanied trace of Papuan and Oceanian at ~2% levels. Some of the ASI affinities of family members are >5% which seems pretty out-of-place for persons that score >99% SSA on modern calcs (ie. no modern NA or Horner ancestry) -- I guess that makes sense if this backflow to Africa is far dated; 30kya

This could be an insightful separate thread, I'd be interested to compare ancient admix results of other Africans.

beyoku
02-24-2017, 12:30 PM
The Kingdom of Kush was an ancient Nubian kingdom and mtDNA haplogroup M2 was found at the highest frequency in Northern and Southern Nubia at 39.1%. A back migration from the Indian subcontinent to East Africa has been suggested by González et al. (2007) as African M lineages are younger than Indian M lineages. The first M1 backflow to Africa, dated around 30,000 ya, could be forced by climatic conditions.

These are two different things you are mixing up. The Northern and Southern Nubia data is in reference to Y-Chromosome M2 or E1b1a (https://www.academia.edu/10933902/Genetics_Egypt_and_History_Interpreting_Geographic al_Patterns_of_Y_Chromosomal_Variation). So far the distribution of E1b1a in such high frequencies has not been duplicated by modern studies that use the current ISOGG diagnostic SNP's. Its presence in Egypt is generally not that high and in Sudan its non-existant. The second half of your post is speaking of maternal lineage M1.

ThirdTerm
02-24-2017, 07:21 PM
A high frequency for hg M1 was observed among Asiatic speakers in East Africa who are associated with Nubia. According to Stevanovitch et al. (2004), the M1 haplogroup frequencies were 20% in the East African population and 10% in the Nubian population. The Cushites were from the area of the kingdom of Kush, also known as the Nubian kingdom of Napata. The wrong frequency in my previous post was actually about hg E-M2, taken from an obscure website on ancient Egypt.



The M1 haplogroup frequency in Gurna is similar
to that observed in the East African population (20%)
(Passarino et al. 1998). The M1 haplogroup was observed
in the Nile Valley population (7%), Nubian population
(10%) (Krings et al. 1999), Bedouins (7.1%),
Druzes (2.2%) and Palestinians (1.7%), but it was not
found in any other Near Eastern populations (Richards
et al. 2000).

According to the population pairwise differentiation
test (Appendix Ib), most of these populations appear not
significantly different (with alpha value equal to 0.01),
with the exception of the outgroup which is different
from all the other populations. Only the Nubian population
from Kerma and the Sudanese population from
Dinka display a significant difference with some populations
(Kerma with Assiout, Mansoura, Upper Egypt
and Dongola populations, and Dinka with Kerma and
Mansoura populations), although the Fst values are under
0.10 for all these populations.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00057.x/pdf

Angoliga
02-27-2017, 05:39 AM
Here's a more recent paper (2016) that also suggests a possible back to Africa migration from India to East Africa; the presence of M1 is cited as supporting evidence.

Using autosmal ancestry-specific allele frequencies and a graph-based model implemented in TreeMix, the paper estimates different migration events which happen to show "non-tree-like behavior" :

Ancient Human Migration after
Out-of-Africa
Daniel Shriner, Fasil Tekola-Ayele, Adebowale Adeyemo & Charles N. Rotimi


...The second migration event indicates that Cushitic ancestry is a mixture of ancestries closely related to Nilo-Saharan/Omotic and Arabian ancestries. This migration event resolves the observed unstable placement between East African and Middle Eastern ancestries3,4,6: Cushitic ancestry has both East African and Middle Eastern origins. The fourth migration event indicated gene flow between Indian ancestry and the common ancestor of Arabian, Levantine-Caucasian, Northern European, and Southern European ancestries. In conjunction with the second migration event, this event connects India to East Africa. Taken together, these two events are consistent with the presence among East Africans of the mitochondrial DNA haplogroup M1, possibly reflecting migration from India to East Africa following the Last Glacial Maximum13,14,15.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4876373/pdf/srep26565.pdf

Real_Amharas
04-07-2017, 04:04 AM
E1b1b and T and A it's common in Tigrinyas (Agaw bilen/Raya-Oromos)

lifeisdandy
04-07-2017, 08:41 PM
E1b1b and T and A it's common in Tigrinyas (Agaw bilen/Raya-Oromos)

What's the percentage of j1 in amharas and Tigray?

Real_Amharas
04-08-2017, 05:02 AM
What's the percentage of j1 in amharas and Tigray?

25-35%

Awale
04-26-2017, 10:30 AM
25-35%


What's the percentage of j1 in amharas and Tigray?

Here you go:

Link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V9GxurCiqtNcJ5XyQ7K3pjjlAMzum-EWYKTm6FuHxHU/pubchart?oid=1059464289&format=interactive)

Pretty good sample size all around of both Erythraeic and Ethio-Judaeo-Sinaitic speakers and the pattern generally holds that Y-DNA J has a 20-25% frequency in the region once you discount pseudo outliers like Somalis, Sidamas, Gedeos, Gawadas and Hadiyas. And if you're wondering about "Erythraeic" and "Judaeo-Sinaitic":

They're my currently preferred alternatives to "Cushitic" and "Semitic" which I dislike for their goofy biblical connections when the other Afro-Asiatic branches tend to have more sensible names connected to geography or meta-ethnicity ("Omotic" for the Omo-river (https://www.google.ae/maps/place/Omo+River/@8.6161691,35.1583722,1580101m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x17a2242722d7ebdf:0xcf488 a8de2303707!8m2!3d6.3850876!4d37.0074245) and "Berber" for the Imazighen folk who are also called Berbers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbers) etc.). Both names come, to some extent, from the likely rough spread of the Urheimats for the two respective branches (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ARnUeK-Y8WYWhmTDhWMGU4T1U/view?usp=sharing); though I'll admit that "Judaeo-Sinaitic" might not be one I'll utilize for long. :P

Anyway, I guess if I had to narrow down a few very Erythraeic speaker tied Y-DNA lineages I'd go for:


E-V32
E-V22
E-V6
E-M293
A-M13
T-M70


I'll try and get into each lineage's spread and known history among Erythraeic speakers at a later date but, to be honest, we'll also need more serious and deep testing to go further than mere frequencies (+ broad historical statements) among the populations of the Horn and Sudan for some of these Y-DNA lineages. And, as an Erythraeic speaking group that seems to have enjoyed some level of "genomic isolation" thanks to their historical habitation of "Greater-Somalia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Somalia)", I'd guess Somalis' mtDNA lineages (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2015/08/somali-mtdna-frequencies.html) are something good to go on. Although, I do think we may have lost certain lineages here and there in terms of mtDNA. For example, I've always thought early Erythraeic speakers might have had some mtDNA I which is found in South as well East Erythraeic speaker admixed groups like some Southeast African ethnic groups (i.e. Turkanas, see here (http://ethiohelix.blogspot.ae/2013/01/east-african-mtdna-variation-has.html)), or even in an outright Lowland East Erythraeic speaking group like Rendilles.

Missouri1455
05-03-2017, 03:56 PM
Here you go:

Link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V9GxurCiqtNcJ5XyQ7K3pjjlAMzum-EWYKTm6FuHxHU/pubchart?oid=1059464289&format=interactive)

Pretty good sample size all around of both Erythraeic and Ethio-Judaeo-Sinaitic speakers and the pattern generally holds that Y-DNA J has a 20-25% frequency in the region once you discount pseudo outliers like Somalis, Sidamas, Gedeos, Gawadas and Hadiyas. And if you're wondering about "Erythraeic" and "Judaeo-Sinaitic":

They're my currently preferred alternatives to "Cushitic" and "Semitic" which I dislike for their goofy biblical connections when the other Afro-Asiatic branches tend to have more sensible names connected to geography or meta-ethnicity ("Omotic" for the Omo-river (https://www.google.ae/maps/place/Omo+River/@8.6161691,35.1583722,1580101m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x17a2242722d7ebdf:0xcf488 a8de2303707!8m2!3d6.3850876!4d37.0074245) and "Berber" for the Imazighen folk who are also called Berbers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbers) etc.). Both names come, to some extent, from the likely rough spread of the Urheimats for the two respective branches (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ARnUeK-Y8WYWhmTDhWMGU4T1U/view?usp=sharing); though I'll admit that "Judaeo-Sinaitic" might not be one I'll utilize for long. :P

Anyway, I guess if I had to narrow down a few very Erythraeic speaker tied Y-DNA lineages I'd go for:


E-V32
E-V22
E-V6
E-M293
A-M13
T-M70


I'll try and get into each lineage's spread and known history among Erythraeic speakers at a later date but, to be honest, we'll also need more serious and deep testing to go further than mere frequencies (+ broad historical statements) among the populations of the Horn and Sudan for some of these Y-DNA lineages. And, as an Erythraeic speaking group that seems to have enjoyed some level of "genomic isolation" thanks to their historical habitation of "Greater-Somalia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Somalia)", I'd guess Somalis' mtDNA lineages (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2015/08/somali-mtdna-frequencies.html) are something good to go on. Although, I do think we may have lost certain lineages here and there in terms of mtDNA. For example, I've always thought early Erythraeic speakers might have had some mtDNA I which is found in South as well East Erythraeic speaker admixed groups like some Southeast African ethnic groups (i.e. Turkanas, see here (http://ethiohelix.blogspot.ae/2013/01/east-african-mtdna-variation-has.html)), or even in an outright Lowland East Erythraeic speaking group like Rendilles.

From the link you posted i seen that somalis specifically have the "T" haplogroup ranged at 30%; is the T haplogroup in somalis local or was it brought from outside the horn because from the results it seems other horners tend to have it at very low percentages.

Great information you provided

Awale
05-17-2017, 12:51 PM
From the link you posted i seen that somalis specifically have the "T" haplogroup ranged at 30%; is the T haplogroup in somalis local or was it brought from outside the horn because from the results it seems other horners tend to have it at very low percentages.

Somalis have it at a higher percentage than those other Horn-Africans due to what look like some founder-effects (or one founder-effect) in parts of the northwest of Greater-Somalia (Djibouti, Awdal, Waqooyi Galbeed etc.) as well as somewhat higher percentages even outside that area of Somali habitation (10-20% or so depending on the data-set). No idea how and when this came to be among us in particular; would need aDNA for that. However, despite the marker's markedly lower presence among our close relatives in the region; it's seemingly a pretty old marker among Erythraeic speakers and was clearly even present among South-Erythraeic speakers when they made their way south into Southeast (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2015/05/south-cushitic-admixture-in-southeast.html) and Southern (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2015/07/the-savanna-pastoral-neolithic-cushitic.html) Africa:

http://ethiohelix.blogspot.ae/2013/05/another-extensive-thesis-on-east.html

Iraqws = modern South-Erythraeic speakers and they're at about 12.77% T-M70 in that data-set and this isn't the only study where they've shown similar percentages for T-M70, from what I recall. You can also see how various SE African populations with Erythraeic speaker admixture clearly show some T-M70. This and it's presence all over the Horn among both Erythraeic and former Erythraeic speaking people like Habeshas as well as its very low presence in Sudan (http://ethiohelix.blogspot.ae/2013/02/sudan-ydna.html) pretty much points to how it arrived in the region with the early Erythraeic speaking pastoralists when they moved into the Horn from what is now Sudan (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9499-Gedmatch-populations-approximation&p=208306&viewfull=1#post208306), to be honest. Before Sudan experienced later Haplogroup changes.

On another note, it's pretty interesting that Y-DNA T also showed up among Neolithic Levantines... In the case of South-Erythraeic speakers, it's also funny that those recent Natufian samples turned out to be mostly E-Z830 as the dominant South-Erythraeic speaker marker seems to be E-M293, a subclade of E-Z830 (https://yfull.com/tree/E-M293/). It seems we clearly have some paternal ties to Neolithic and Epipaleolithic Levantines.


Great information you provided

Thanks, glad I could help.

hartaisarlag
08-26-2018, 07:07 PM
nope, bye

Khamsin
06-24-2019, 03:51 AM
So, what makes us Horners Kushitic? Is it the Ydna haplogroups? The Mtdna (someone says it is the Mtdna M!) or it is the autosomal?
Also, are Kushitic only in the Horn? Are Sudanese Kushitic? I think Northern Ethiopians Amhara and Tigre are still kushitic despite their more semitic language.