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Hando
12-31-2016, 03:53 PM
Hi should I get Geno 2 if I plan on getting Big Y?
Thanks

ArmandoR1b
12-31-2016, 05:37 PM
Have you had an STR test at FTDNA? Have you had a Family Finder test with FTDNA?

A BigY test will test a lot more than all of the SNPs that Geno 2.0 tests so you would just be spending extra for a lower resolution Y-DNA test with Geno 2.0. The reason that I ask about the STR test at FTDNA is because you need one before getting a BigY test.

The Geno 2.0 autosomal test uses the same calculator as the Family Finder test which you can get for $59 until the end of the sale today. If you get Geno 2.0 and want an upgrade from Geno 2.0 to Family Finder for matching and a file that you can use with Gedmatch then you have to pay extra. The mtDNA doesn't have matching either without an upgrade with FTDNA.

GoldenHind
12-31-2016, 06:18 PM
Hi should I get Geno 2 if I plan on getting Big Y?
Thanks

Absolutely not.

Hando
12-31-2016, 06:31 PM
Thanks guys. No I haven't done either the STR or the family
Finder tests. Are there any holidays specials for both? Also, should I do both before I even think of doing the Big Y? I won't do Geno 2. Thanks

ArmandoR1b
12-31-2016, 07:08 PM
Thanks guys. No I haven't done either the STR or the family
Finder tests. Are there any holidays specials for both? Also, should I do both before I even think of doing the Big Y? I won't do Geno 2. Thanks
You have to get a Y12, Y37, Y67, or Y111 before you ever have the option of the BigY. There is a sale that ends in less than 11 hours from now and there are coupons you can use with the sale price to bring the price down even more. The coupons are at this link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CgXRKz2TySvRqSInveSIYoslO7yexAc9d-BzpNhaY1c/edit#gid=482095775).

You have to make the choice if you want the Family Finder test or not.

lgmayka
12-31-2016, 08:21 PM
[QUOTE=Hando;206018Are there any holidays specials for both? Also, should I do both before I even think of doing the Big Y?[/QUOTE]
Family Finder is so inexpensive during this discount sale that it's difficult to turn down.
I would suggest Y-DNA37 + Family Finder, for $188 + $13 shipping (https://www.familytreedna.com/products.aspx) - $20 coupon (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Se4uGBivthQf-ASUTwZYmo69gx9JmFIDLa0_yDFVHu4/edit#gid=396467822) = $181.

The cheapest option which still gives you the ability to order the Big Y later is Y-DNA12 for $59 + $13 shipping. Y-DNA12 can only be ordered through a project order page.

wombatofthenorth
01-02-2017, 03:46 AM
Geno 2.0 would get you your mtDNA haplogroup too. Also while the results for ancestry seem to be the same as MyOrigins for now (other than for one person who insists they got very different results) it might change in the future and, for now, MyOrigins just tosses raw results for ancestry with zero context while Geno 2.0 NG gives you many reference samples so you have a much better idea what to make of the results. Maybe you don't care, but they also give a very nice presentation for the Y haplogroup results as well and give you a nice step by step walk out from Africa, so it's not a bad place to start before adding extras from FTDNA. One problem is that they seem to have recent;y stopped using FTDNA for their US customers though so if you are from the U.S. you can no longer transfer into the FF database or download your RAW data (at least for now). If you took the test before or if you take it now outside of the U.S. then you can transfer over. The transfer costs $30 although they seem to give a $30 off for the YSTR37 which you need to take before taking BigY. (between regular holiday discount, that $30 off and a big holiday coupon my dad got the STR37 for $89).

ArmandoR1b
01-02-2017, 02:01 PM
The mtDNA test by Geno 2.0 is not the full mtDNA and does not provide matching without an upgrade at FTDNA so the mtDNA test by Geno 2.0 is almost worthless.

The presentation of the walk out of Africa is based on speculation. Anyone that reads this all of the threads at this forum and the scientific studies that are mentioned in the thread has no need for the presentation.

It's a good thing that Hando never went with Geno 2.0 since it does not provide much value. The Y37 test that he has already had, but forgot about, was less of a reason to get Geno 2.0 since he already plans of getting BigY. BigY tests all of the SNPs that Geno 2.0 does,it doesn't have the false positive problem that Geno 2.o has, it discovers SNPs which Geno 2.0 doesn't do at all, and it provides a TMRCA once a YFull analysis is purchased. Everything about BigY renders the Y-DNA testing by Geno 2.0 completely useless.

You get what you pay for with Geno 2.0. It's a lower priced product but it is extremely inferior to what FTDNA offers.

vettor
01-02-2017, 05:30 PM
The mtDNA test by Geno 2.0 is not the full mtDNA and does not provide matching without an upgrade at FTDNA so the mtDNA test by Geno 2.0 is almost worthless.

The presentation of the walk out of Africa is based on speculation. Anyone that reads this all of the threads at this forum and the scientific studies that are mentioned in the thread has no need for the presentation.

It's a good thing that Hando never went with Geno 2.0 since it does not provide much value. The Y37 test that he has already had, but forgot about, was less of a reason to get Geno 2.0 since he already plans of getting BigY. BigY tests all of the SNPs that Geno 2.0 does,it doesn't have the false positive problem that Geno 2.o has, it discovers SNPs which Geno 2.0 doesn't do at all, and it provides a TMRCA once a YFull analysis is purchased. Everything about BigY renders the Y-DNA testing by Geno 2.0 completely useless.

You get what you pay for with Geno 2.0. It's a lower priced product but it is extremely inferior to what FTDNA offers.

What you say did not happen for me

Firstly , NatGeno2 is still the only company that correctly designated my Mtdna and Ydna is one session

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/vicpret/natgenonew_zps3ff4a8c9.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/natgenonew_zps3ff4a8c9.jpg.html)

and

My recent BigY ............did not give me any Mtdna nor sending it to Yfull


My Ftdna Mtdna tests .........all .........only produced haplogroup H ..................only the ftdna project teams found my H95a


Value is another matter , but is value good to pursue when the results are lacking!


............................

my sister did the new natgeno2 about 2 months .............it looks poorer than mine , but they still found her correct mtdna

this is what she got:

My Maternal Lineage Began About 150,000 Years Ago.

My maternal ancestors carried farming culture from the region of the Fertile Crescent into Europe. This revolutionized not only the way food was grown but introduced a shift from a nomadic lifestyle to a settled one. Changes to tools, pottery, and weapons may not otherwise have been possible. Thus, my cousins have played an important role in the history of the Fertile Crescent region and of Europe.
My maternal branch is H95a

ArmandoR1b
01-02-2017, 09:04 PM
What you say did not happen for me
You obviously misunderstood what I wrote. Read below.


Firstly , NatGeno2 is still the only company that correctly designated my Mtdna and Ydna is one session
First off, so what. NatGeno2 did not test all of the SNPs that BigY tested for you and it does not do SNP discovery leaving out the need for future Y-DNA testing except for maybe a rare SNP needed a nested primer which can't be tested by the technology that NatGeno2 uses anyway. You also did not get NatGeno2 NextGen. You got the previous test. The NatGeno2 NextGen has a lot of false positives that put a lot of people in the wrong subclade sometimes even into the wrong haplgroup and it gets worse with a transfer to FTDNA because they have no idea how to handle the false positives. You also did not get a Full mtDNA test with NatGeno2. Some people have mutations that are important enough that are not tested by NatGeno2 and you don't even get mtDNA matching without an upgrade.


and

My recent BigY ............did not give me any Mtdna nor sending it to Yfull
I never said that BigY tests mtDNA. You need to reread my previous posts.



My Ftdna Mtdna tests .........all .........only produced haplogroup H ..................only the ftdna project teams found my H95a
What you don't understand is that individual situations don't prove or disprove something being good or bad. If you compare two products and one costs less but has a 10% higher failure rate within 3 years are you going to go with the product that has a higher failure rate or are you going to pay more for the better product. The product with a higher failure rate is going to have a lot of people like you saying that their product still works fine after 3 years.



Value is another matter , but is value good to pursue when the results are lacking!
Results aren't lacking when everybody is taken into consideration and also what can be done with the results. Do you not understand that each situation is different?


............................


my sister did the new natgeno2 about 2 months .............it looks poorer than mine , but they still found her correct mtdna

this is what she got:

My Maternal Lineage Began About 150,000 Years Ago.

My maternal ancestors carried farming culture from the region of the Fertile Crescent into Europe. This revolutionized not only the way food was grown but introduced a shift from a nomadic lifestyle to a settled one. Changes to tools, pottery, and weapons may not otherwise have been possible. Thus, my cousins have played an important role in the history of the Fertile Crescent region and of Europe.
My maternal branch is H95a
How does that help in any way? We all know that mtDNA H came from the Fertile Crescent and you can download the estimated date of the mutation or one closest to it with Behar et al. along with the upstream subclades and haplogroup.

wombatofthenorth
01-03-2017, 03:26 AM
The mtDNA test by Geno 2.0 is not the full mtDNA and does not provide matching without an upgrade at FTDNA so the mtDNA test by Geno 2.0 is almost worthless.

The presentation of the walk out of Africa is based on speculation. Anyone that reads this all of the threads at this forum and the scientific studies that are mentioned in the thread has no need for the presentation.

It's a good thing that Hando never went with Geno 2.0 since it does not provide much value. The Y37 test that he has already had, but forgot about, was less of a reason to get Geno 2.0 since he already plans of getting BigY. BigY tests all of the SNPs that Geno 2.0 does,it doesn't have the false positive problem that Geno 2.o has, it discovers SNPs which Geno 2.0 doesn't do at all, and it provides a TMRCA once a YFull analysis is purchased. Everything about BigY renders the Y-DNA testing by Geno 2.0 completely useless.

You get what you pay for with Geno 2.0. It's a lower priced product but it is extremely inferior to what FTDNA offers.

yeah, yeah, Geno is worst, worse than the devil, etc. etc. etc.
we know you blindly hate the company beyond all reckoning

vettor
01-03-2017, 04:45 AM
yeah, yeah, Geno is worst, worse than the devil, etc. etc. etc.
we know you blindly hate the company beyond all reckoning

I must admit that the new NAtgen , is worse than the first natgeno2 .................but this id because ftdna now run Nat geno and they do a minimal of work on it

ArmandoR1b
01-03-2017, 02:46 PM
yeah, yeah, Geno is worst, worse than the devil, etc. etc. etc.
we know you blindly hate the company beyond all reckoning
LOL. I only point out the truth. Any test that provides incorrect or misleading results should be avoided and Geno 2.0 provides incorrect or misleading results for a significant amount of the participants. Every company has it's pros and cons. FTDNA and Geno 2.0 NG have an ethnicity calculator that provide incorrect or misleading results to too many people. Geno 2.0 Y-DNA testing provide incorrect or misleading results to too many people. FTDNA has the best Y-DNA and mtDNA testing available when getting the proper tests. 23andme has an inferior Y-DNA SNP and mtDNA test but the best ethnicity calculator. I don't really like AncestryDNA either but at least they only do autosomal DNA and their Native American DNA result is normally much better than FTDNA myOrigins and Geno 2.0 and Native American DNA is something a lot of people look at. It gives way too much Iberian to some northwestern European but less than FTDNA myOrigins and Geno 2.0. Not a lot of people post threads asking about the quality of AncestryDNA so I haven't mentioned the cons of that product much but I have mentioned in several threads that 23andme is better than AncestryDNA, FTDNA myOrigins, and Geno 2.0.

vettor
01-03-2017, 04:24 PM
LOL. I only point out the truth. Any test that provides incorrect or misleading results should be avoided and Geno 2.0 provides incorrect or misleading results for a significant amount of the participants. Every company has it's pros and cons. FTDNA and Geno 2.0 NG have an ethnicity calculator that provide incorrect or misleading results to too many people. Geno 2.0 Y-DNA testing provide incorrect or misleading results to too many people. FTDNA has the best Y-DNA and mtDNA testing available when getting the proper tests. 23andme has an inferior Y-DNA SNP and mtDNA test but the best ethnicity calculator. I don't really like AncestryDNA either but at least they only do autosomal DNA and their Native American DNA result is normally much better than FTDNA myOrigins and Geno 2.0 and Native American DNA is something a lot of people look at. It gives way too much Iberian to some northwestern European but less than FTDNA myOrigins and Geno 2.0. Not a lot of people post threads asking about the quality of AncestryDNA so I haven't mentioned the cons of that product much but I have mentioned in several threads that 23andme is better than AncestryDNA, FTDNA myOrigins, and Geno 2.0.

LOL, .......23andme the best ethnicity calculator............where does this come from when they have

16.3%
Broadly Southern European

18.5%
Broadly Northwestern European

8.6%
Broadly European

for me on speculative ..............more than a third noted as "broadly" ...............maybe this is why the are the best!

or what about standard below:
12.8%
Broadly Southern European

8.0%
Broadly Northwestern European

58.4%
Broadly European ......................................that's 80% , "broadly" ................maybe broadly should be called ...we do not know

ArmandoR1b
01-03-2017, 05:34 PM
LOL, .......23andme the best ethnicity calculator............where does this come from when they have

You aren't very good at looking at the big picture which necessitates analyzing the results of a lot of people with well documented ancestry and not just using single individual's results. 23andme more closely reflects genealogical record than Geno 2.0 NG, FTDNA myOrigins, and AncestryDNA. Even the ISOGG Wiki gives 23andme the best score - http://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_testing_comparison_chart Guess what, they didn't just use a single person's results.

vettor
01-03-2017, 05:56 PM
You aren't very good at looking at the big picture which necessitates analyzing the results of a lot of people with well documented ancestry and not just using single individual's results. 23andme more closely reflects genealogical record than Geno 2.0 NG, FTDNA myOrigins, and AncestryDNA. Even the ISOGG Wiki gives 23andme the best score - http://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_testing_comparison_chart Guess what, they didn't just use a single person's results.

Am I not part of their "big picture"?

Clearly my results comes from a massive amount of individuals tested by 23nadme , and yet,........... I still get a huge % of "Broadly" ( we do not know ).

One would think that with this massive amount of people tested for ancestry, the % of "broadly" would be minimal ...............one would have to agree with this

ArmandoR1b
01-05-2017, 03:38 PM
Am I not part of their "big picture"?

Clearly my results comes from a massive amount of individuals tested by 23nadme , and yet,........... I still get a huge % of "Broadly" ( we do not know ).

One would think that with this massive amount of people tested for ancestry, the % of "broadly" would be minimal ...............one would have to agree with this

You are one person out of the big picture. Think about the analogy I made about a 10% higher failure rate in a competing product that is cheaper. I'll expand on the analogy so maybe you can understand it a little better.. Let's say that, hypothetically, 23andme has a 2% failure rate and NatGeo has a 12% failure rate. If you are one of 2% at 23andme that got a bad result but 98% of the people did not but at NatGeo 12% got a bad result which company has the better calculator? If you can understand that question and answer it truthfully then you should be able to understand why your story is simply anecdotal. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

Changing the subject to your Y-DNA, you can no longer say that NatGeno2 correctly designated your Y-DNA because it did not provide you with your current YFull terminal SNP of Z19945 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489/) which also shows that you are on a different branch than everyone else that was tested positive for Z19945 and three others are on different branches of CTS8489 than Z19945. There was no way for you to know that with NatGeno2. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7240-T-in-YFULL

vettor
01-05-2017, 04:12 PM
You are one person out of the big picture. Think about the analogy I made about a 10% higher failure rate in a competing product that is cheaper. I'll expand on the analogy so maybe you can understand it a little better.. Let's say that, hypothetically, 23andme has a 2% failure rate and NatGeo has a 12% failure rate. If you are one of 2% at 23andme that got a bad result but 98% of the people did not but at NatGeo 12% got a bad result which company has the better calculator? If you can understand that question and answer it truthfully then you should be able to understand why your story is simply anecdotal. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

Changing the subject to your Y-DNA, you can no longer say that NatGeno2 correctly designated your Y-DNA because it did not provide you with your current YFull terminal SNP of Z19945 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489/) which also shows that you are on a different branch than everyone else that was tested positive for Z19945 and three others are on different branches of CTS8489 than Z19945. There was no way for you to know that with NatGeno2. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7240-T-in-YFULL

This seems like a desperate post by you ...............how can you even speak of any hypothetically results, when 23andme use a 2008 ydna tree to give a person their results , how can you compare this to even any other testing company on the market who use more modern trees?
Clearly, just because they use this 2008 tree clearly makes them last in correctly designating a person's test ...............I do not understand how you can justify this.

in regards to the second para..............every day that passes for whoever has done a genetic test will find their initial test to be less accurate ..................due to the fact that as times moves on, new SNP's are found ................I already know, they will find another branch below the new one of Z19945 ...............this is fact for all haplogroups


in regards to ancestry, better to leave it to the experts
https://dna-explained.com/2016/12/23/23andmes-new-ancestry-composition-ethnicity-chromosome-segments/

ArmandoR1b
01-08-2017, 06:05 PM
This seems like a desperate post by you ...............Not at all. You have a problem comprehending what I have written.


how can you even speak of any hypothetically results,Easily. There are a lot more people that are given crazy results with Geno 2.0 NextGen and FTDNA myOrigins than there are with 23andme.


when 23andme use a 2008 ydna tree to give a person their results ,how can you compare this to even any other testing company on the market who use more modern trees? Clearly, just because they use this 2008 tree clearly makes them last in correctly designating a person's test ...............I do not understand how you can justify this.
When I mentioned 23andme I was wrote about the autosomal DNA and not the Y-DNA. You have confused subjects which is no surprise since you confuse a lot of things. The only time that I mentioned 23andme Y-DNA is when I stated that it is an inferior test. Look back at al of the times that I have mentioned 23andme.


in regards to the second para..............every day that passes for whoever has done a genetic test will find their initial test to be less accurate ..................due to the fact that as times moves on, new SNP's are found ................I already know, they will find another branch below the new one of Z19945 ...............this is fact for all haplogroups
Exactly, and Geno 2.0 NextGen is so behind the times that there is no reason to test with them anymore.


in regards to ancestry, better to leave it to the experts
Roberta is just one of many experts that got her expertise from comparing results and not because she is a professional geneticist. Some of her blog posts such as using small segments to prove common ancestry are at odds with other experts such as Dr. Ann Turner http://www.jogg.info/pages/72/files/Turner.htm and Cece Moore http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2014/12/the-folly-of-using-small-segments-as.html so be very careful about using that other logical fallacy you just tried to use https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority



https://dna-explained.com/2016/12/23/23andmes-new-ancestry-composition-ethnicity-chromosome-segments/
Congratulations, you have confused subjects again. That blog post is not about 23andme ethnicity calculator not being good. It is about the ethnicity segments not aligning with a parent that was also tested. You need to find a blog post where she states that one of the ethnicity calculators are better than the others.

Please read a lot better and think a lot more before posting again and accusing someone of writing a desperate post when you are the that is writing posts that lack logic.

wombatofthenorth
01-14-2017, 08:06 AM
"Exactly, and Geno 2.0 NextGen is so behind the times that there is no reason to test with them anymore."

Who is ahead? The ancestry is like FF only with better maps and far better background explanation. FF doesn't even give haplogroups at all and sure full mtDNA and YSTR plus a slew of SNP packs or BigY will give you better haplogroups but that total cost is way more and how many bother? You go on about how you get so much more detailed, at times, haplogroups, but what does it matter when only a tiny fraction in reality ever bother to take the extra tests you need there? I look at our FF matches and barely any know what their haplogroups are, it's like 9 out of 10 tests or more give N/A under the haplogroup listing. And many where a haplo is listed seem to be Geno transfers. And Geno also gives a much nicer background presentation on your haplogroups.

23 has a different sort of ancestry presentation, I see it as more of an addition to look at. It does also gives haplogroups too which is nice although they give next to no background and used to use long form Y, they finally changed to short of US customers but often use alternate SNP names that most don't use.

Ancestry gives a different ancestry comp too, for some better, for some worse. They don't give any haplogroup info either.

So why is Geno so hideously horrible and backwards compared to everyone else???

ArmandoR1b
01-15-2017, 02:46 PM
"Exactly, and Geno 2.0 NextGen is so behind the times that there is no reason to test with them anymore."

Who is ahead?
I see from the rest of the post that you didn't understand that I was replying to a statement about Y-DNA results at Geno 2.0 NextGen. Read all of the thread and you will see that I was talking about the Y-DNA with that statement.


The ancestry is like FF only with better maps and far better background explanation.
FF ethnicity calculator sucks which means Geno 2.0 NextGen ethnicity calculator sucks but with maps that are not needed by people with an understanding of population movements.


FF doesn't even give haplogroups at all
No one every alluded to the fact that it did. Where


and sure full mtDNA and YSTR plus a slew of SNP packs or BigY will give you better haplogroups but that total cost is way more and how many bother?
You get what you pay for and lots of people bother.


You go on about how you get so much more detailed, at times, haplogroups, but what does it matter when only a tiny fraction in reality ever bother to take the extra tests you need there?
There are plenty of people that do get the extra tests. Both YFull and Alex Williamson's BigTree have grown since they started and will grow even more once the results are in from the holiday sales and then more people will get an SNP pack or BigY.


I look at our FF matches and barely any know what their haplogroups are, it's like 9 out of 10 tests or more give N/A under the haplogroup listing. And many where a haplo is listed seem to be Geno transfers. And Geno also gives a much nicer background presentation on your haplogroups.Way too many people get a false positive or are given a haplogroup too far up the tree for Geno to be worth the money.


23 has a different sort of ancestry presentation, I see it as more of an addition to look at. It does also gives haplogroups too which is nice although they give next to no background and used to use long form Y, they finally changed to short of US customers but often use alternate SNP names that most don't use.There are two reasons to use 23andme. Ethnicity calculator and autosomal matches. The haplogroup can be used at times to skip an SNP pack but not always. Otherwise the haplogroup isn't much help. In post #13 I told you "23andme has an inferior Y-DNA SNP and mtDNA test" That still stands.


Ancestry gives a different ancestry comp too, for some better, for some worse. They don't give any haplogroup info either.
I have already told you in post #13 "I don't really like AncestryDNA either"


So why is Geno so hideously horrible and backwards compared to everyone else???
Because the ethnicity calculator sucks, the Y-DNA testing has too high of a rate of false positives and tests an insufficient number of Y-DNA SNPs, and because the mtDNA testing is insufficient. On top of all of that there is no matching unless you upgrade with FTDNA. This has all been explained to you many times.