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A Norfolk L-M20
01-04-2017, 10:18 PM
I thought that I'd take a fresh look at a 10 month long discussion on the 23andMe OE forum. I selected 20 samples listed in the discussion, but rejected two for insufficient data. Finding English samples with no family history of recent admixture was difficult, so this could be said to represent "mostly English", most commonly with some other known British or Irish admixture - Irish, Scottish, Welsh, or Cornish.

This was my finding:

23andMe in Speculative Mode

An Average English Result.


58% British & Irish
12% French & German
4% Scandinavian
22% Broadly NW European



1.1% Southern European
0.4% Eastern European
0.1% Finnish (only two samples)



That adds up to 97.7%. The remainder consists of Broadly European, Unassigned, and "others" at very low percentage: Middle Eastern & North African, East Asian & Native American, Ashkenazi, Yakut, West African, Sub Saharan African, West African.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13453&d=1483567775

A Norfolk L-M20
01-04-2017, 11:39 PM
A few things to note.

It's difficult to find many samples with a researched and recorded English ancestry that does not include some other British or Irish admixture in recent family history.

Most known admixture is indeed Irish or other British. A few mentions of distant German, Huguenot, and French.

All 18 cases had a percentage of French & German, varying from 5.8 to 27% (mine was the highest).

All 18 cases had a percentage of Scandinavian, varying from 0.6 to 12.4%

15 out of 18 of the samples had a small percentage of Southern European.

Finnish turned up in small percentages in four samples.

That appears to be "English" on 23andMe.

sktibo
01-19-2017, 10:11 PM
Thanks for compiling this, is the East Anglian at 36% b&i a relative of yours or one that you found?
It's a bit confusing to see your numbers along with these other samples. I don't think it's uncommon for someone born outside England to fit in close to the average and yet you appear to be on the extremities. Did you draw any new ideas or theories on this? I can't help but think that all roads lead to living DNA results, and that Jan 27 still seems terribly far away

ADW_1981
01-19-2017, 10:23 PM
Maybe the 0.1 Finnish are me and my dad...
If ours are not in the data set, I can happily PM ours to you to compile.

Calas
01-20-2017, 09:44 AM
You'd need more samples but it looks like this could be perceived as how immigrants [Huguenots, Jews, etc.] influenced English regions.

Is it possible to get a geographical idea? Example if a person's ancestry is 80% Midlands. Be interesting if there's much difference.





All 18 cases had a percentage of French & German, varying from 5.8 to 27% (mine was the highest).

But yours is particularly interesting given as you're perceived by 23&me as more French & German than the person with a known German ancestor. Who is the other East Anglian? A relative of yours?

A Norfolk L-M20
01-22-2017, 01:17 PM
36% B&I was indeed my mother. I actually struggled to find English samples with no known family history of Irish, Scottish, etc. Hence I felt justified allowing my own and my mother's results in there.

Judith
01-22-2017, 01:35 PM
Do you want to include mine (see below). I am only a bit Scottish (which bit may be original Irish) but the Shropshire Cheshire is close to Wales.
In spec mode, all in % mostly ignoring decimals
62 B/I
12 French German
4 Scandinavian
0.4 Finn
20 broad NW European
0.1 North African. It is all a bit more about ancient roots of the UK than recent ancestry

edit Tut! I think that might be already in your table, now i have zoomed in. Or i have a cousin?

JohnHowellsTyrfro
01-22-2017, 05:06 PM
I've had Finnish, Ashkenazi and small amounts on Native American on a few tests. In some instances from what I've been told we may need to think of this as "similar to" (shared origins).
I would think in border counties like Herefordshire you would get much more "Welsh" probably reflecting early ancestry as well as recent, but that's "where does England stop and Wales begin"? :)
Difficult to know how accurate terms like "German" and "Scandinavian" are, remembering I had something like 40% Scandinavian on one calculator? John

Calas
01-22-2017, 06:10 PM
I actually struggled to find English samples with no known family history of Irish, Scottish, etc. Hence I felt justified allowing my own and my mother's results in there.

Makes sense though. England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland are but a stone throw away from one another.


I've got quite a bit of English ancestry but at the same time possibly a bit too much Irish, Scottish and a little Welsh for your criteria. However, just in case.


British & Irish - 79.2%
French & German - 3.5%
Scandinavian - 0.3%
Broad NW - 11.7%
South E. - 1.6%
Iberian - 1.4%
Finn - 1.2%
Ashkenazi 0.4%
Broad European 0.5%
North African 0.1%

A Norfolk L-M20
01-22-2017, 06:19 PM
Makes sense though. England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland are but a stone throw away from one another.


I've got quite a bit of English ancestry but at the same time possibly a bit too much Irish, Scottish and a little Welsh for your criteria. However, just in case.


British & Irish - 79.2%
French & German - 3.5%
Scandinavian - 0.3%
Broad NW - 11.7%
South E. - 1.6%
Iberian - 1.4%
Finn - 1.2%
Ashkenazi 0.4%
Broad European 0.5%
North African 0.1%

A lot of movement from Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, into England, over the past 300 years or so. My own kids are "25% Irish", and a large number of English have an Irish, Welsh, or Scottish ancestor within their known family history. The Irish in particular, moved here in large numbers during the 19th and 20th Centuries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_migration_to_Great_Britain#19th_century_onwa rds

Calas
01-22-2017, 08:21 PM
A lot of movement from Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, into England, over the past 300 years or so. My own kids are "25% Irish", and a large number of English have an Irish, Welsh, or Scottish ancestor within their known family history. The Irish in particular, moved here in large numbers during the 19th and 20th Centuries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_migration_to_Great_Britain#19th_century_onwa rds

And prior to that it'd have been the reverse. The "Planting" of Ulster, for example, during the 1600s. Cromwell and his followers were well known to have sent English Royalists, the so called "criminals" that opposed him, to Ireland. While those favored by Cromwell, or saw advantages in the turmoil, did take up Irish land where possible.

There is, after all, a number of "Irish" surnames with probable Scottish or English roots.

Oathsworn
01-22-2017, 11:46 PM
I'm certainly not typically English, due to being 7/8ths English and 1/8th Polish but here are my 23andme results.

Standard estimate.

99.5%
European

Northwestern European

18.8%
British & Irish

2.3%
Scandinavian

1.8%
French & German

65.3%
Broadly Northwestern European

1.0%
Eastern European

10.2%
Broadly European

< 0.1%
Middle Eastern & North African

< 0.1%
Broadly Middle Eastern & North African

0.4%
Unassigned

100% Oathsworn

A Norfolk L-M20
03-22-2017, 06:25 PM
My 23 results and others are often described as being atypical for being a Brit with low in British/Irish/British Isles percentages. My B&I before phasing in spec mode was 32%, my mother's 35%, and mine after phasing increased to 37%. I've accepted that my auDNA is atypical, but recently I came across a distant DNA match with another Norfolk / East Anglian tester. We didn't find a paper connection, but I was interested to see their 23 results:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14448&d=1489080454

So similar to mine and my mothers. So perhaps my results are not so atypical for an East Anglian Norfolk tester?

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14666&d=1490207040

Calas
04-03-2017, 11:21 AM
I thought that I'd take a fresh look at a 10 month long discussion on the 23andMe OE forum. I selected 20 samples listed in the discussion, but rejected two for insufficient data. Finding English samples with no family history of recent admixture was difficult, so this could be said to represent "mostly English", most commonly with some other known British or Irish admixture - Irish, Scottish, Welsh, or Cornish.

58% British & Irish
12% French & German
4% Scandinavian
22% Broadly NW European




Though this person isn't entirely English I thought it a good example of how misleading/skewed 23&me's ethnicity results can be. He is American. I found him on another forum. His British ancestry is working, rural & his American ancestry is old settler ancestry, was similarly mostly rural and didn't move around a lot. His ancestry is as follows:

Paternal > Midlander (in & around Sheffield mostly) x French Canadian [one Irish great-grandparent] > includes a little recent mid-1800s French migrants
Maternal > Southern Brit (rural, east & west about even) x New England Settler [predominantly German, Ulster-Scot, Swiss, Swede, Dutch, Austrian, and some Eastern European (Polish)] > includes a little recent mid-1800s Swiss-German migrants


British & Irish 65.1%
French & German 6.6%
Scandinavian 2.7%
Broadly NW European 22.5%



http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13453&d=1483567775

Looking at A Norfolk's chart he falls somewhere in the middle grounds of the average British person. Look at number #6, 7, 8 as well as 3rd and 2nd from bottom.

A Norfolk L-M20
04-03-2017, 11:27 AM
Looking at A Norfolk's chart he falls somewhere in the middle grounds of the average British person. Look at number #6, 7, 8 as well as 3rd and 2nd from bottom.

Steady Calas, you should know better. Typical for English, not British. Include the Scottish, and Welsh and the average B&I would most likely raise, while the Continental and Broadly NW European may well reduce.

Calas
04-15-2017, 12:30 AM
I thought that I'd take a fresh look at a 10 month long discussion on the 23andMe OE forum. I selected 20 samples listed in the discussion, but rejected two for insufficient data.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13453&d=1483567775


Question. Seeing as you have southwest & southeast English would you like southcentral English? A little distant Welsh.

B&I 72.8%
Scan 1.5%
F&G 7.9%
Broad NW 14.2%
S. Europe 0.5%
E. European 0.0%
Finnish 0.0%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.5% > Middle Eastern
South Asian 2.6%

Dorsetshireman
04-22-2017, 09:26 PM
Interesting, my own results line up with this. While I have some known German ancestry, a great grandfather to be exact, 23andme over-predicts my 'French & German' by a full 1/8 on speculative mode, putting me at 25.4% French & German. Your typical English person having about 12% French & German makes up the difference perfect. I score just 40.1% British on speculative mode, 3.1% on conservative!

Judith
04-25-2017, 09:01 PM
Welcome to the forum Dorsetshireman!

Dorsetshireman
04-26-2017, 01:53 PM
Thank you! I found myself lurking enough here that I thought I might as well get it over with and make an account.

raschau
06-09-2017, 05:35 PM
More than half of my ancestry is English and Scottish, at least 60% combined, and my results aren't too far off with German and Croatian in the mix:

British and Irish: 35.0%. French and German: 16.9%. Scandinavian: 1.7%. Broadly Northwestern European: 30.7%.

Eastern European: 2.9%.
Southern European: 2.3%.
Sardinian: 0.4%.

Broadly Southern European: 1.9%.
Broadly European: 10.2%.

Cornella
06-17-2017, 05:43 PM
Could you link me to the discussion, or to somewhere I can see fairly large numbers of British 23andMe results?

NewAlbion
06-17-2017, 11:47 PM
I thought that I'd take a fresh look at a 10 month long discussion on the 23andMe OE forum. I selected 20 samples listed in the discussion, but rejected two for insufficient data. Finding English samples with no family history of recent admixture was difficult, so this could be said to represent "mostly English", most commonly with some other known British or Irish admixture - Irish, Scottish, Welsh, or Cornish.

This was my finding:

23andMe in Speculative Mode

An Average English Result.


58% British & Irish
12% French & German
4% Scandinavian
22% Broadly NW European



1.1% Southern European
0.4% Eastern European
0.1% Finnish (only two samples)



That adds up to 97.7%. The remainder consists of Broadly European, Unassigned, and "others" at very low percentage: Middle Eastern & North African, East Asian & Native American, Ashkenazi, Yakut, West African, Sub Saharan African, West African.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13453&d=1483567775

I think the two samples that have Finnsh are probably northern English or have some Scottish ancestry.

BTW, I think 23andme is probably more accurate than other commercial companies but it comes at the cost of vagueness. French&German and B&I are too vague for me that it is why I won't shell out the cash to get tested with them. They should at least separate Ireland, Wales, and Scotland from England and that should definitely be possible. The only Celtic nation that would be difficult to differentiate would be Cornwall. French and German should be easy to differentiate outside of northeast France too. At least AncestryDNA and myheritage tell me I am 37% British/English and 40% English respectively. Myheritage, once out of beta, may adjust my other results to be more inline with my AncestryDNA results.

sktibo
06-18-2017, 01:17 AM
I think the two samples that have Finnsh are probably northern English or have some Scottish ancestry.

BTW, I think 23andme is probably more accurate than other commercial companies but it comes at the cost of vagueness. French&German and B&I are too vague for me that it is why I won't shell out the cash to get tested with them. They should at least separate Ireland, Wales, and Scotland from England and that should definitely be possible. The only Celtic nation that would be difficult to differentiate would be Cornwall. French and German should be easy to differentiate outside of northeast France too. At least AncestryDNA and myheritage tell me I am 37% British/English and 40% English respectively. Myheritage, once out of beta, may adjust my other results to be more inline with my AncestryDNA results.

It's actually not so simple to separate Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales. First we have the problem of Wales, which despite what many people think actually appears to cluster with England rather than Scotland and Ireland - this can be seen on the Irish traveller DNA PCA graph (well, shows it as separated from Scot and Ire by England.. I suspect Wales should really be its own category altogether, but Wales is closer to England than it is to Scotland and Ireland), and also Living DNA's test places England and Wales in a broad category together while Scotland and Ireland are paired together. Another example of this can be seen in this presentation from the WDYTYA [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGUhMs0Ttls ] where it shows England and Wales sharing a closer genetic connection than Scotland and Ireland. IMO one of the problems with myheritage is that it tries to group Wales in with Scotland and Ireland and I don't think this is correct.. This could be one of the reasons why we see people with primarily English ancestry falling entirely into the I/S/W category on myheritage. Of course, being in beta and having other issues who knows why this might be for sure.
I don't think its correct to say that Cornwall is especially difficult to differentiate from the rest of the British Isles, there have been quite a few DNA samples collected from people with solid heritage from this region and the POBI showed it to be rather distinct. Scotland, for example, might actually be more problematic to differentiate because there's such a variety of genetic regions within it. The Scottish Lowlands are especially problematic as they don't appear to cleanly separate from Northern England. On the other end of the spectrum, the Hebrides and Western Scotland are very close to Ireland.
So to state that "They should at least separate Ireland, Wales, and Scotland from England and that should definitely be possible" isn't really fair. This is an incredibly complex task, especially considering all of these regions have quite a lot of DNA in common. Do you have a living DNA test in the works? They are the specialists when it comes to separating Scotland, Ireland, and Wales from England.
As for 23andme, it can be used to tell apart Scottish, Irish, English, ect, based on the percentage of "Britain and Ireland" it assigns. As we can see from the data Norfolk has collected, English people average in the 50% range. The Irish are often in the range of 90-100%, and from what I've seen the Scottish are often in the 80-90% range. Of course this doesn't help much for people who are highly mixed, but it is a good clean category which can tell an individual around about what their Insular DNA (probably reflective of Bell Beaker if we look far enough down that rabbit hole) is.
Of course for some people, ancestry and myheritage do a good job, but they aren't consistent enough for us to say that they will always do so. 23andme is consistent.
A friend of mine who has tested at ancestry and transferred his results to myheritage makes for an interesting example: he is 12.5% Scandinavian, about 24% Scottish, and the rest (about 63.5%) is English. AncestryDNA gave him 88% Great Britain 6% Ireland and 0% Scandinavian. Myheritage gives him 36% Scandinavian, 21% Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and 20% English. Neither are very good. Ancestry doesn't give him enough "Ireland" or any Scandinavian, but does an OK job on English, while myheritage gives him way too much Scandinavian, nowhere near enough English, but does a pretty good job on his Scottish. I think his results show how these two tests don't do an adequate job of separating his English from his Scottish, one comes close on English, and misses entirely on Scottish, while the other comes close on Scottish and misses entirely on English. The number of good DNA samples needed to reliably separate these two countries is much greater than any DNA test currently on the market has.

16986

16987

Here are two graphs showing the relationship between England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, and Orkney. Note how England is in the middle, and Wales is on one side of England while Scotland and Ireland fall on the other.

NewAlbion
06-18-2017, 01:49 AM
It's actually not so simple to separate Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales. First we have the problem of Wales, which despite what many people think actually appears to cluster with England rather than Scotland and Ireland - this can be seen on the Irish traveller DNA PCA graph (well, shows it as separated from Scot and Ire by England.. I suspect Wales should really be its own category altogether, but Wales is closer to England than it is to Scotland and Ireland), and also Living DNA's test places England and Wales in a broad category together while Scotland and Ireland are paired together. Another example of this can be seen in this presentation from the WDYTYA [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGUhMs0Ttls ] where it shows England and Wales sharing a closer genetic connection than Scotland and Ireland. IMO one of the problems with myheritage is that it tries to group Wales in with Scotland and Ireland and I don't think this is correct.. This could be one of the reasons why we see people with primarily English ancestry falling entirely into the I/S/W category on myheritage. Of course, being in beta and having other issues who knows why this might be for sure.
I don't think its correct to say that Cornwall is especially difficult to differentiate from the rest of the British Isles, there have been quite a few DNA samples collected from people with solid heritage from this region and the POBI showed it to be rather distinct. Scotland, for example, might actually be more problematic to differentiate because there's such a variety of genetic regions within it. The Scottish Lowlands are especially problematic as they don't appear to cleanly separate from Northern England. On the other end of the spectrum, the Hebrides and Western Scotland are very close to Ireland.
So to state that "They should at least separate Ireland, Wales, and Scotland from England and that should definitely be possible" isn't really fair. This is an incredibly complex task, especially considering all of these regions have quite a lot of DNA in common. Do you have a living DNA test in the works? They are the specialists when it comes to separating Scotland, Ireland, and Wales from England.
As for 23andme, it can be used to tell apart Scottish, Irish, English, ect, based on the percentage of "Britain and Ireland" it assigns. As we can see from the data Norfolk has collected, English people average in the 50% range. The Irish are often in the range of 90-100%, and from what I've seen the Scottish are often in the 80-90% range. Of course this doesn't help much for people who are highly mixed, but it is a good clean category which can tell an individual around about what their Insular DNA (probably reflective of Bell Beaker if we look far enough down that rabbit hole) is.
Of course for some people, ancestry and myheritage do a good job, but they aren't consistent enough for us to say that they will always do so. 23andme is consistent.
A friend of mine who has tested at ancestry and transferred his results to myheritage makes for an interesting example: he is 12.5% Scandinavian, about 24% Scottish, and the rest (about 63.5%) is English. AncestryDNA gave him 88% Great Britain 6% Ireland and 0% Scandinavian. Myheritage gives him 36% Scandinavian, 21% Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and 20% English. Neither are very good. Ancestry doesn't give him enough "Ireland" or any Scandinavian, but does an OK job on English, while myheritage gives him way too much Scandinavian, nowhere near enough English, but does a pretty good job on his Scottish. I think his results show how these two tests don't do an adequate job of separating his English from his Scottish, one comes close on English, and misses entirely on Scottish, while the other comes close on Scottish and misses entirely on English. The number of good DNA samples needed to reliably separate these two countries is much greater than any DNA test currently on the market has.

16986

16987

I am not sure everything you said is true but I just wanted to point out by differentiate I meant Cornwall clusters closer to England than Wales. In terms of clustering with the English it is probably in this order : 1.) Cornwall 2.) Wales 3.) Scotland etc.... You are probably right about more samples needed but I think it is possible to distinguish the mainland Scots from the English as they are about halfway between the native Welsh/Irish and the English /Germanics. It should be possible to distinguish the Orcadians and northeast Scottish too

Anyway, if AncestryDNA is right I would score 89% B&I which is Scottish range. I don't have a living DNA sample in the mix. I don't think I am too highly mixed I am 75% British isles and 25% Alsace-lorraine ( which similar to the Palatine Germans, in Northern Ireland, or the French Huguenots in the British isles).

sktibo
06-18-2017, 02:16 AM
I am not sure everything you said is true but I just wanted to point out by differentiate I meant Cornwall clusters closer to England than Wales. In terms of clustering with the English it is probably in this order : 1.) Cornwall 2.) Wales 3.) Scotland etc.... You are probably right about more samples needed but I think it is possible to distinguish the mainland Scots from the English as they are about halfway between the native Welsh/Irish and the English /Germanics. It should be possible to distinguish the Orcadians and northeast Scottish too

Anyway, if AncestryDNA is right I would score 89% B&I which is Scottish range. I don't have a living DNA sample in the mix. I don't think I am too highly mixed I am 75% British isles and 25% Alsace-lorraine ( which similar to the Palatine Germans, in Northern Ireland, or the French Huguenots in the British isles).

It is good to be skeptical, but the points I was trying to make to you were that

1. Wales, Ireland, and Scotland together are a bad combination for a single category - as shown in the graphs I attached.
2. myheritage and ancestry don't reliably split "Celtic" from "English" for everyone
3. The British Isles are a complex genetic region, thankfully we have some insight into this with the POBI, which is where I got the information about the Scottish regions I was discussing.
Some of the POBI information is available here: [ http://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/nl6.pdf ]

Yes I agree that England clusters with 1. Cornwall 2. Wales 3. Scotland in that order (Borders excluded ofc)

These aren't my ideas. This is information I have gathered from studies on the matter (#2 excluded, I went through the myheritage thread and asked people about their British and Irish/Scottish percentages and how it lined up with their known ancestry), so if you do not believe me, perhaps you will consider the original source.

NewAlbion
06-18-2017, 03:18 AM
It is good to be skeptical, but the points I was trying to make to you were that

1. Wales, Ireland, and Scotland together are a bad combination for a single category - as shown in the graphs I attached.
2. myheritage and ancestry don't reliably split "Celtic" from "English" for everyone
3. The British Isles are a complex genetic region, thankfully we have some insight into this with the POBI, which is where I got the information about the Scottish regions I was discussing.
Some of the POBI information is available here: [ http://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/nl6.pdf ]

Yes I agree that England clusters with 1. Cornwall 2. Wales 3. Scotland in that order

These aren't my ideas. This is information I have gathered from studies on the matter (#2 excluded, I went through the myheritage thread and asked people about their British and Irish/Scottish percentages and how it lined up with their known ancestry), so if you do not believe me, perhaps you will consider the original source.

Actually, sorry to Norfolk, for going off topic here but what I find interesting about the second picture, you attached, is that the Ulster samples cluster with Scotland. Do you know if those samples came from northern Ireland ?

sktibo
06-18-2017, 03:22 AM
Actually, sorry to Norfolk, for going off topic here but what I find interesting about the second picture, you attached, is that the Ulster samples cluster with Scotland. Do you know if those samples came from northern Ireland ?

It's a bit hard to see but there are two categories, Ulster 12 and Ulster 13. Ulster 13 clusters with Scotland, yes I believe those would have come from Northern Ireland

I also want to add about comparing 23andme to ancestry that my combined British and Irish for AncestryDNA is 79% vs 52.7% B&I in 23andme, so they're quite different. While I would encourage you (or anyone I'm able to) to buy 23andme's ancestry test, I'll admit I would be much more interested to see how Living DNA would categorize you.

mnd
03-25-2018, 01:34 AM
Wasn't sure where to post this, so I'll just leave it here - it might be of use to some, or perhaps someone with more knowledge of English results can weigh in.

These results belong to a friend of mine whose paternal line is from Walsall (historically Staffordshire) and maternal line from Nuneaton, Warwickshire. He doesn't know of any recent non-English ancestry, though admittedly can't trace his ancestry back very far. I would say his results looks fairly typical, except for the high Scandinavian and inverted Scandinavian/French-German percentages (most English people seem to have substantially higher percentages of the latter).

22304

Judith
03-25-2018, 02:05 PM
Wasn't sure where to post this, so I'll just leave it here - it might be of use to some, or perhaps someone with more knowledge of English results can weigh in.

These results belong to a friend of mine whose paternal line is from Walsall (historically Staffordshire) and maternal line from Nuneaton, Warwickshire. He doesn't know of any recent non-English ancestry, though admittedly can't trace his ancestry back very far. I would say his results looks fairly typical, except for the high Scandinavian and inverted Scandinavian/French-German percentages (most English people seem to have substantially higher percentages of the latter).

22304
His look very similar to those of my family: Midlands and northern England do seem to have less French German similarities and more Scandinavia not unsurprising given the geography and where the Scandinavian migrants settled compared to the Saxon. Plus there is bidirectional movement across the English Channel between southern England and France in historic (and previous) periods

Barellalee
03-27-2018, 10:02 AM
My dad is from Yorkshire. His father from Yorkshire was of completely English Ancestry, back to the Middle Ages (Yorkshire, Durham, Lancashire, Northumberland, Cumbria). With available records back to the Middle Ages, His Mother was of about 60% English Ancestry (Yorkshire, Durham, Norfolk) with about 40% Anglo-French roots from Medieval Normandy and Picardy and a fraction of Scoto-Norman (Normans of Medieval Scotland). My dad's Y-DNA, through the Ethnic English Brooks line in Yorkshire, is I2a1-L233, a tiny Haplogroup of Northwestern Europe and the Isles, which was carried over by the Anglo-Saxons. His Autosomal results are roughly majority Broadly Northwest European, 35% French German, 22% British Irish, 4% Iberian, and small amounts of Scandinavian and Broadly European. Therein, it appears to me that his ethnically English background was predominantly Anglo Saxon, with a decent amount of native Briton. The iberian shows up on all tests but we don't know why yet. It's in my results as 2%, one huge Segment on my Chromosome # 8. There are three small Autosomal IBD matches to the Amsterdam area of Holland. I don't have any known Dutch Ancestors in my tree, but there assuredly are at least one. My GG Grandfather was from Norwich, England, a Port City that was at least 1/3 Dutch Immigrant several Centuries ago.

JFWinstone
03-27-2018, 01:08 PM
My dad is 7/8 Southern English and 1/8 North Dutch, he got 61.3% British & Irish, 12.7% French and German, 8.3% Scandinavian, 17.2% Broadly Northwestern European and <0.1% West African.