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Rain
05-22-2013, 04:11 PM
Hello, I recently got my results back from a geno 2.0 test I took and I am having a little difficulty reading them. It says my Y-DNA is N-P89. Ok I'm assuming N is the haplogroup and P89 is the SNP. On the page for the Y-DNA results it says the branch is Tat. On googling these names i get a number of hits for N-Tat but nothing at all for N-P89. To add to the confusion when I uploaded the results to mYFTDNA it says my haplogroup is N-M178.
I'm guessing N is the haplogroup, Tat the subclade of N and M178 is a subclade of Tat and P89 being the SNP.
I know I must sound completely noobish right now but I could really do with some competent help on this matter. Any help on understanding what the connection of all these numbers and letters are and any information, particularly on P89 which I'm finding absolutely nothing on, would be much appreciated, thanks.

Alpine Hominin
05-22-2013, 04:56 PM
Hello, I recently got my results back from a geno 2.0 test I took and I am having a little difficulty reading them. It says my Y-DNA is N-P89. Ok I'm assuming N is the haplogroup and P89 is the SNP. On the page for the Y-DNA results it says the branch is Tat. On googling these names i get a number of hits for N-Tat but nothing at all for N-P89. To add to the confusion when I uploaded the results to mYFTDNA it says my haplogroup is N-M178.
I'm guessing N is the haplogroup, Tat the subclade of N and M178 is a subclade of Tat and P89 being the SNP.
I know I must sound completely noobish right now but I could really do with some competent help on this matter. Any help on understanding what the connection of all these numbers and letters are and any information, particularly on P89 which I'm finding absolutely nothing on, would be much appreciated, thanks.

Welcome, I'm new here myself. Don't worry about sounding new, better to ask and understand than to never learn. Do you mean that Geno 2.0 gave you N-P298? M178 and P298 are two names for the same SNP. The only P89 I know of is in Haplogroup Q (Q-P89.1)

Rain
05-22-2013, 05:58 PM
Welcome, I'm new here myself. Don't worry about sounding new, better to ask and understand than to never learn. Do you mean that Geno 2.0 gave you N-P298? M178 and P298 are two names for the same SNP. The only P89 I know of is in Haplogroup Q (Q-P89.1)

Hello, thanks for replying. It is definately N-P89, here is a screenshot of it.

Clinton P
05-22-2013, 06:46 PM
If you go to 'YOUR MAP' at NationalGenographic.

Click on N-P89.

Reading from left to right, what is the sequence of SNPs?

Clinton P

Rain
05-22-2013, 07:00 PM
If you go to 'YOUR MAP' at NationalGenographic.

Click on N-P89.

Reading from left to right, what is the sequence of SNPs?

Clinton P

Starting from left, M42 M168 M89 P128 M214 M231 TAT.

Clinton P
05-22-2013, 07:37 PM
It looks like M178 may have failed at Geno 2.0.

I can't explain P89. It looks like a new occurrence P89 in Haplogroup N (it already occurs twice in haplogroups Q and once in haplogroup R).

I'm not too sure why Geno 2.0 have assigned P89 as your terminal SNP, and yet given tat as your terminal SNP on 'Your Map' page.

This is a question only NationalGenographic can answer.

Clinton P

Rain
05-22-2013, 07:51 PM
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I will look to see if there is a way to contact national geographic for an explanation.
Do you know why myFTDNA would state my haplogroup is M178 when it is using the same data as geno 2.0?

Rain
05-22-2013, 07:59 PM
I have taken screenshots of the geno 2.0 results. Geno 2.0 allows you to transfer the data to myFTDNA for further analysis and I took a screenshot of the results shown by them too. Hope this might give a better picture of the results than what I can say in words.

Clinton P
05-22-2013, 08:21 PM
Do you know why myFTDNA would state my haplogroup is M178 when it is using the same data as geno 2.0?

Since M178 is downstream of tat, this is what leads me to believe that M178 has failed at Geno 2.0 and that FamilyTreeDNA is showing your terminal SNP in accordance with the current tree, whilst Geno 2.0 is just showing tat.

P89 is just a mystery.

Clinton P

Rain
05-22-2013, 08:24 PM
Thanks for your help, I'm in the process of emailing natgeo right now, I'll post what i find out from them if anything.

Clinton P
05-22-2013, 08:34 PM
Just to be thorough, have you looked at your raw data?

What Allele1 and Allele2 values do you get for M178 and P89 in your raw data?

Clinton P

Rain
05-22-2013, 08:38 PM
For M178 it is T and T, for P89 T and T also.

Clinton P
05-22-2013, 08:50 PM
Thatís even more strange, your raw data is showing that you are positive for both M178 and P89.

Yet M178 is not showing up in your Geno 2.0 results.

P89 is looking like itís a new occurrence in haplogroup N. I have no idea how NationalGenographic have been able to place it where it is.

Definitely one for NationalGenographic to answer.

Clinton P

Rain
05-22-2013, 08:55 PM
Hehe, and who said genetics was boring. I'll shoot that email to natgeo to clarify, thanks.

lgmayka
05-22-2013, 11:09 PM
P89 is already known to occur in multiple haplogroups. There is a P89.2 project for its occurrence in R1b (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-P89.2/default.aspx?section=yresults).

Scarlet Ibis
05-23-2013, 02:16 AM
Crazy...I'd be interested to see what they say if you do email them.

Rain
05-28-2013, 05:42 PM
I haven't heard back from national geographic yet, although I got an email saying my message has been received.

I put my data through DIYDodecad which gave me these results

----------------------------
FINAL ADMIXTURE PROPORTIONS:
----------------------------

13.28% East_European
21.52% West_European
25.83% Mediterranean
0.00% Neo_African
22.07% West_Asian
2.79% South_Asian
4.29% Northeast_Asian
2.78% Southeast_Asian
0.02% East_African
7.14% Southwest_Asian
0.28% Northwest_African
0.00% Palaeo_African

K10a calculator

----------------------------
FINAL ADMIXTURE PROPORTIONS:
----------------------------

0.00% Palaeoafrican
2.44% South_Asian
22.31% West_Asian
0.01% Southeast_Asian
0.00% Sub_Saharan
34.35% Atlantic_Baltic
2.45% Red_Sea
2.45% East_Asian
30.82% Mediterranean
5.16% Siberian

Anyone want to take a guess at my ethnicity?

rossa
05-28-2013, 07:54 PM
Swiss? Slovenian? The fairly high West Asian score in the secondone seems strange to me so I will also throw in Western Romanian.

Rain
05-29-2013, 09:41 PM
Swiss? Slovenian? The fairly high West Asian score in the secondone seems strange to me so I will also throw in Western Romanian.

Not even close, you need to shift a bit more to the east ;)

DMXX
05-29-2013, 09:51 PM
Anyone want to take a guess at my ethnicity?

Turkish? Your pred. West Asian and Mediterranean with a hefty portion of Atlantic-Baltic, plus the 7% East Eurasian (Siberian and E. Asian) lead me to that educated guess.

If I were to guess where in Turkey, I'd probably say the western or northern coast, certainly not somewhere in the eastern portion of the Anatolian plateau. Most Turkish results I've seen from there resemble Armenian genetic profiles.

As an aside, how long did it take (weeks per stage if you can recall this) for your results to be published? Another user whose results I'm following is stuck on Stage 3 for a good month now.

AJL
05-29-2013, 10:56 PM
I think DMXX's guess is pretty good but your Siberian is reasonably high, so for variety's sake I am going to guess a minority population in Russia, maybe Bashkir?

Rain
05-30-2013, 12:18 AM
DMXX actually got it spot on, my parents are from western Turkey, Balikesir province. My dad is going over in July for a month so i've set him the task of finding out as much about his geneology as he can.

The geno 2.0 results took 2 months to get to 100%. It's a LONG wait.

Rain
05-30-2013, 12:23 AM
I just checked my email notifications, Sent the kit away on 1st March and got the results on 15th May. Stage 3 was the longest stage but when it gets past that quality control only took a day.

rossa
05-30-2013, 01:31 PM
Not even close, you need to shift a bit more to the east ;)

Just a bit :\
I didn't realise Turkish people scored fairly high on the Atlantic/West Euro component.

DMXX
05-30-2013, 02:53 PM
Just a bit :\
I didn't realise Turkish people scored fairly high on the Atlantic/West Euro component.

Some Turks do, there are plenty which don't. The country's population has a very diverse history owing to Ottoman rule especially.

Rain
07-07-2013, 11:29 PM
Finally got a reply from national geographic tonight. The project must be keeping them really busy over there. This is what they said:


Thank you for contacting the Genographic Project.

The Genographic Project will report your haplogroup (N) and the furthest SNP in which you tested positive (P89). Since new SNPs are discovered constantly, there may not be a lot of information regarding your furthest SNP. You did also test positive for M178. For now, this should provide your with a bit more information and in the future, as we research more, there will more information for P89.


I get the feeling Turks don't get themselves tested that much so it will probably be a long wait until more information is found for P89. In the meantime I have ordered the Y-DNA111 test from FTDNA, which should tell me more about my recent ancestry that hopefully will shed some light on my lineage.

Rain
10-19-2013, 03:02 PM
Those great guys over at the N North Eurasian YDNA Project on FTDNA have placed me (Gokdeniz) on the phylogenetic tree for Hg N here http://trog.narod.ru/dna/N-tree-Geno_2.0-6.jpg

There is good news, one of the administrators for the group has informed me of a recent study from China http://arxiv.org/abs/1310.3897 where SNP's F3271 and F4205 have been tested positive for a Han Chinese from Shandong.

I would imagine nomad incursions into the north China plains being responsible? At least I'm no longer on my lonesome at this branch of the tree... :biggrin1:

BMG
10-19-2013, 04:46 PM
You seem to have real turkic paternal line . If you dont mind asking does your family has any stories relating to your turkic ancestry ie some royal ancestry or some recent interactions with central asian turks .

Rain
10-19-2013, 05:41 PM
You seem to have real turkic paternal line . If you dont mind asking does your family has any stories relating to your turkic ancestry ie some royal ancestry or some recent interactions with central asian turks .

I don't believe "Turkicness" is determined by genetic markers. Turkic being an supra-ethnic identity based on a shared language and common habits and practises being passed down to a group of people. Genetic markers seem to mostly of formed many thousands of years ago and before any ethnic group existent today, so it would be wrong to say this halpogroup belonged to this ethnic group or that one belongs to that ethnic group.

My father was originally from a Yoruk village in western Turkey. Yoruk were nomadic up until quite recently and in some cases still are semi-nomadic. It would be interesting if a study was done on Yoruk populations in Turkey and the Balkans to see how they differ or how much they share in common with general Anatolian and Balkan Turkish populations.

BMG
10-19-2013, 06:51 PM
I am not saying haplogroup N1c is turkic or anything like that . I was actually referring to its presence in turkey which could be attributed to migration of turkic people from central asia

Rain
10-19-2013, 07:36 PM
Don't worry about it probably a misunderstanding. When you said "real Turkic paternal line", which would be to assume there are unreal/imaginary Turkic lines, led me to comment on that issue.
For example, my fathers sisters son, would share the same grandfather as I do, yet likely have a different haplogroup than I or our grandfather has, yet we are both his grandsons.

But yes, most probably it was carried from Inner Asia into Anatolia with the Turkic migrations, more likely considering the Yoruk ancestry making them the last to have settled down among the generic settled populations of Turkey.

wombatofthenorth
04-08-2015, 09:16 PM
I just checked my email notifications, Sent the kit away on 1st March and got the results on 15th May. Stage 3 was the longest stage but when it gets past that quality control only took a day.

Has anyone had it stuck on quality control phase for many weeks?

Ashina
10-10-2015, 10:19 AM
Some Turks do, there are plenty which don't. The country's population has a very diverse history owing to Ottoman rule especially.

If you are referring to Balkan migration into Turkey, then that's not true. The Northwest/Centralwest of Turkey seems to have more affection with Europe 'naturally' not linked to any recent migrations. The Balkan migration (be it Turk or non-Turk muslim) into Turkey is recent anyway and I am pretty sure that Rain would have mentioned Balkan ancestry if he had some.

The Anatolian Greek results from Western and Northwestern Turkey show similar results in the sense that they are not very Armenian-like and more Balkan/mainland Greek shifted.

The Byzantines also used to relocate Balkan Slavs into Anatolia several times.

DMXX
10-10-2015, 02:26 PM
If you are referring to Balkan migration into Turkey, then that's not true.

No, I'm not. I'm well aware of the "Janissary input" argument a lot of people unaware of Turkey's history put forward. That is not what I was invoking, though I fully understand why you may have made that connection (it is commonly raised in discussions regarding Turkey on anthropology forums).

I am referring to actual internal migration during the Ottoman era in Anatolia (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bArqJe8aabIC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=turkey+internal+migration+ottoman&source=bl&ots=bMzpzOeBuY&sig=_rDmrsj6jPZmUeIT6nP_NPXM6ng&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDIQ6AEwA2oVChMIqZ2Ej424yAIVxxUsCh2FHwaN#v=on epage&q=turkey%20internal%20migration%20ottoman&f=false).

Now we have Barcın and Eurogenes confirmed they are essentially EEF, we have a simple explanation regarding why Turks especially from the western throngs of the country are shifted in the direction of the Balkans and Greece.

Ashina
10-10-2015, 04:49 PM
No, I thought you were referring to the recent Balkan immigration that happened directly after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. I didn't think you were talking about Janissaries. There are many Turks, Albanians, Bosnians and Pomaks living in Turkey who came from the Balkans not so long ago.

Yes, the Barcin samples explain a lot but even before that, looking at Western Anatolian Greek results it was clear that Anatolia was already diverse before the Selcuk and Ottoman conquest.

Btw, I can not open your link.