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hannah-lena
01-17-2017, 12:14 PM
Hello Community !

I wanted to wait until my FTDNA results are in, but they seem to have a bigger problem than expected. So my father did the Geno 2.0 test and was categorized as R-z191. I tried to figure out something about this Mutation, but there are only a very few information's. The things I found are FTDNA doesn't offer R-z191 (Z191 ............ under U152; discard since it is appearing positive in R1b Geno2 tests; not offered by FTDNA , http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?816-R1b-DF27-Phylogeny-(SNP-based-family-tree)/page4 ) and a lot more.
I don't want to write any other theories ( R-z191 often false positive, etc ) because I'm not able to find the links now. So, Geno 2.0 went from step processing to results are in. Maybe they forgot to change the status to "control" between the steps - nevermind. Since i uploaded the raw data to FTDNA on the 20th December last year my fathers Haplogroup is under prediction. His SNP-Tree has a few green-marked mutations, which are quite contradicting (M207, M343, F3867 but no V88, L23, L51, U152 but nothing in between L51 and U152 and FGC8507 under not green-marked L48 and U106.
When i wrote FTDNA they told me about a little account glitch but it takes nearly a month now.
Anyway, can anybody tell me something about R-z191? Are there some known problems ? Under which subgroup is R-z191 categorized?
I get kind of confused with all that.

Thank you !

ArmandoR1b
01-17-2017, 01:41 PM
There is an older Geno 2.0 and there is a Geno 2.0 NextGen test. Do you know which test he had?

If it was the Geno 2.0 NextGen then in the order history at FTDNA it says Genographic 2+ Transfer and you can download the CSV file from FTDNA. To see an example of where the CSV file is located see the image at http://i.imgur.com/gcRTGZr.jpg

Once you download and open the file you will see three columns. The first is the SNPName and the third is the allele provided twice. You can compare each SNP result with the ancestral (negative) and derived (positive) alleles found at ISOGG or Ybrowse. Z191 is T to G so if your father has GG he is positive otherwise he is negative. Z36 is A to G so he probably is AA. U152 is C to T. He probably has CC since U152 does not show up at FTDNA. L51 is G to A. He probably has GG. All of those are tested by Geno 2.0.

If you search for Z191 at https://www.yfull.com/search-snp-in-tree/ it has several results but only once as a link to a spot in the YFull tree. That means it is an SNP that has been found in multiple people that belong to multiple haplogroups. It isn't a reliable SNP and should not have been used by Geno 2.0. Way too many people are being given a subclade that they really don't belong in because Geno 2.0 ignores the negative results. This is my biggest problem with Geno 2.0.

If you upload the CSV file to a file sharing site and send me a link to the file I can try to remove all of the false positives and find the most likely haplogroup and subclade. I'll send you a link with the finished file with the positive and negative SNPs so you can evaluate the work. The CSV file does not have personal or medical info.

hannah-lena
01-17-2017, 04:44 PM
Wow, Armando! I didn't know about this Geno-mistakes. I think it is Geno 2.0 next generation.
That's all very interesting ! So if I'm understanding you the right way my father is positiv for R-z191 because of the GG he has? But none of the others you counted is positive.
I don't understand the yfull tree. What does that mean? The mutation R-z191 was false positive in this examples ?

Thank you a lot for your commitment and help !!!
I send you the link now !!!

Hannah

hannah-lena
01-17-2017, 04:48 PM
Supplement:
Since I do not have 15 posts already to send you a mail, here is the link: http://www.file-upload.net/download-12247553/N227079_YDNA_SNPs_20170117.csv.html

I was wondering about the topic "alleles". I think i got it now. My father IS green-marked on ftdna for U152 - but nothing in between L51 and u152. I think i caused a misunderstanding. Its kind of complicated but am I right if i say he has TT for U152 - so he is positiv?
L51 - AA, positiv?
But how is it possible to have also F3867 - TT, Positiv but no V88 ? Or FGC8507 but no U106? Or L51 positiv but no other mutations downstream to U152 ( except U152 ) ?
How is it even possible, isn't it contradicting itself?

ArmandoR1b
01-18-2017, 05:01 PM
Yes, there was a misunderstanding and TT for U152 and AA for L51 means positive for both. I downloaded the file and your father is also positive for many SNPs upstream from U152 including L52 and P310 which are between L51 and U152. P312 is not tested by FTDNA. He is also positive for L23. M269 was not tested but phylogenetically equivalent L483 and YSC0000225 were and he is positive for those also. He is positive for M343 which defines R1b, and P225, P233, P238 which define R1 and M207 which defines R. He was either negative, untested has a no-call, or had a bad call for the rest. He was not tested for Z36. None of those positive SNPs are false positives. Your father had a false positive for BY131 and and some other SNPs. He is negative for V88 and should be since he is positive for many SNPs in a different branch of the R1b tree.

Here are the positive and negative SNPs in haplogroup R that are listed in ISOGG that your father has (false positives found in multiple haplogroups were removed) -

Y4858-,Y4856-,Y5822-,Y5742-,Y5133-,Y5113-,P232+,Y6061-,Y4368-,Y4691-,M207+,Y5991-,Y5123-,Y5594-,Y4860-,Y5589-,Y5809-,Y4862-,Y5593-,Y5122-,Y4861-,Y5972-,Y3540-,Y6070-,Y7007-,Y3415-,Y3367-,Y5975-,Y3385-,Y3334-,Y3332-,Y3398-,Y3417-,Y4686-,Y3421-,Y5652-,Y4684-,Y5069-,Y7358+,Y3392-,Y3404-,Y5661-,Y6458-,Y3419-,Y7354-,Y3420-,Y5987-,Y3397-,Y7357-,Y3390-,Y3406-,Y5119-,Y3391-,Y4362-,Y3335-,Y3372-,Y3338-,Y7352-,Y4685-,Y3323+,Y3428-,Y4687-,Y4688-,Y5075-,Y5077-,Y3430-,Y5985-,Y3325-,Y5132-,Y5989-,Y3429-,Y4672-,Y5076-,Y7356-,Y6954-,Y3962-,Y4128-,Y3435-,Y3342-,Y3354-,Y3424-,Y3377-,Y5821-,Y3403-,Y7361-,Y3267-,Y4689-,Y3375-,Z3001-,Z2919-,Z8188-,Z2935-,Z2931-,Z2934-,Z17092-,Z2938-,Z2478-,Z2462-,Z8161-,L50-,P238+,P225+,P233+,M420-,CTS3412-,M513-,YP1023-,FGC10232-,YP975-,YP577-,YP609-,YP321-,F1493-,FGC19222-,YP411+,YP442-,YP408-,YP366-,YP547-,YP406-,SUR60-,CTS6050-,KMS171-,s5153-,YP325-,CTS11142-,S3426-,SUR64-,KMS4-,S6842-,S2894-,M10010-,YP551-,YP972-,YP576-,YP385-,SUR56-,CTS4648-,YP317-,KMS123-,SUR77-,YP409-,SUR61-,YP308-,YP452-,YP343-,Y5992-,YP306+,YP558-,YP389-,YP981-,YP344-,YP464-,Z2929-,YP463-,YP301-,YP460-,L175-,M56-,M204-,M157.1-,M87-,M434-,P98-,M334-,Y33-,M448-,M198-,M515-,M514-,L449-,Y216-,L579-,L458-,L12-,L664-,Z283-,PF6217-,Z282-,PF6155-,M458-,L291-,YP252-,YP251-,YP255-,L260-,Y2905-,YP414-,CTS11962-,L1029-,YP263-,YP416-,YP445-,Z280-,CTS8557-,Z92-,Y4459-,CTS91-,YP271-,Y1401-,YP354-,YP569-,YP270-,YP350-,CTS1211-,CTS3402-,YP296-,YP298-,YP311-,YP336-,Y1389-,Y1392-,Y2194-,L365-,YP245-,YP241-,YP273-,L1280-,YP314-,YP335-,Y2395-,L448-,YP355-,CTS4179-,FGC11904-,YP276-,FGC11898-,CLD33-,YP328-,FGC11915-,FGC11912-,YP281-,YP278-,FGC11917-,YP330-,CTS3390-,Z287-,Z288-,Y2400-,Z87-,Z88-,CTS8277-,Y50-,Y58-,Y61-,L657-,S23592-,Z2122-,Y2633-,Y2625-,F1345-,CTS6-,Y2740-,Y2608-,Y2613-,F2935-,CTS4622-,CTS8816-,CTS10851-,CTS3080-,BY771-,CTS1073-,PF6715-,PF6692-,L719-,CTS5689-,FGC10296-,s17075-,L303-,BY1734-,FGC10303-,Z257-,PF7623-,FGC9804-,PF6666-,FGC10302-,CTS11842-,M343+,Y5065-,M228-,CTS11440-,CTS4549-,Z17675-,FGC15446-,BY954-,S11515-,FGC8524-,FGC8738-,Z17695-,BY815-,Z17147-,Z17132-,BY1187-,ZS4598-,FGC15271-,PF742-,CTS2457-,S23106-,CTS11795-,CTS7763-,A430-,FGC17603-,FGC12307-,S1253-,CTS7870-,FGC20761-,S11601-,Z17648-,CTS12449-,FGC8511-,BY838-,FGC8392-,CTS4542-,CTS9050-,FGC8514-,FGC4183-,A562-,Z17564-,CTS3104-,CTS6365-,S1523-,FGC21015-,CTS1791-,Z17653-,CTS8137-,FGC20750-,Z2567-,Z17272-,Z17134-,FGC15445-,CTS699-,FGC10481-,A615-,FGC8517-,Z17122-,Z17152-,Z17644-,CTS3866-,A641-,Z2956-,BY2275-,FGC12775-,Z17281-,A367-,Z17692-,S1211-,Z358-,CTS9512-,FGC20767-,FGC14590-,Z17125-,CTS3553-,FGC8513-,FGC15441-,FGC3236-,YSC0000082+,Z380-,S18462-,Z17654-,F3189-,S15363-,Z3000-,Z17557-,Z17559-,S733-,A626-,Z17599-,Z3007-,Z17651-,Z17282-,Z8193-,Z17645-,FGC15458-,Z17677-,Z3011-,S23955-,Z72-,S1791-,BY1815-,FGC20756-,PF6641-,Z353-,A616-,A454-,Z17131-,S6358-,FGC8521-,s743-,FGC8509-,Z17620-,FGC19598-,Z17673-,FGC19611-,L325-,M126-,M65-,L625-,M37-,M160-,L259-,L180-,V7-,L194-,L135-,P107-,V8-,L693-,L179-,L626-,L7-,YSC0000075+,YSC0000224+,PF6271+,PF6498+,CTS11985+ ,L502+,M478-,M73-,L483+,s3+,YSC0000225+,L23+,L51+,P310+,L52+,U106-,FGC14881-,FGC14891-,FGC14894-,A568-,A561-,A571-,A573-,Z18-,Z16-,YSC0000053-,Z14-,L257-,S5741-,Z156-,Z307-,Z305-,DF96-,s1812-,L1-,A415-,A411-,A410-,A227-,S25234-,s11477-,U198-,L48-,L47-,L163-,L46-,L525-,L164-,CTS11988-,L45-,Z350-,Z159-,Z160-,S25542-,S17698-,S8368-,CTS1117-,CTS6353-,CTS3777-,CTS11549-,FGC17298-,Y6460-,FGC17308-,Y6462-,FGC17307-,FGC17305-,FGC17297-,Y6451-,Y6455-,Y6459-,S6915-,FGC8590-,Y3465-,FGC8579-,Y3265-,FGC8578-,Y3462-,Z9-,Z28-,Z348-,Z30-,Z31-,Z7-,YSC0000049-,Z26-,Z8-,Z351-,Z29-,Z22-,Z11-,Z12-,L148-,S1774-,PF889-,S23409-,S12035-,Z1-,YSC0000043-,Z344-,Z6-,CTS6428-,Z346-,CTS5601-,CTS7080-,s5239-,FGC12993-,S5246-,FGC15254-,FGC904-,CTS10893-,S6901-,FGC924-,FGC930-,Y3159-,FGC923-,FGC919-,M3905-,S11985-,FGC4314-,ZS1850-,S15510-,FGC23425-,PF5143-,Z347-,Z334-,Z331-,Z330-,Z329-,Z335-,Z336-,Z327-,Z328-,Z325-,Z319-,CTS2509-,Z80-,Z81-,A765-,Z154-,Y539-,L253-,L326-,Z195-,L629-,Z274-,Z220-,Z209-,Z268-,Z278-,CTS12074-,Z299-,M153-,CTS4065-,CTS7768-,Z198-,Z269-,Z201-,Z203-,CTS8289-,CTS4299-,Z207-,L659-,L165-,BY132-,BY135-,CTS4188-,L617-,A431-,F1343-,CTS9952-,CTS6519-,DF81-,U152+,L2-,L594-,Z367-,Z384-,L20-,L739-,Z276-,Z35-,Z259-,CTS9044-,L196-,Z49-,L562-,Z57-,Z148-,Z149-,Z65-,Z52-,CTS11232-,CTS278-,CTS4521-,PF27-,S7402-,Z12222-,CTS7970-,CTS8125-,CTS11381-,s42-,L552-,CTS1789-,FGC20796-,Y4353-,CTS188-,CTS8492-,CTS5531-,CTS1595-,Z37-,Z143-,Z38-,L4-,L100-,Z145-,PF6578-,Z46-,PF4363-,L21-,Z290-,Z245-,L583-,FGC7448-,L580-,Z2976-,DF23-,Z2961-,M222-,Z2972-,F1400-,Z2970-,Z2962-,Z2973-,Z2963-,Z2988-,DF106-,S658-,Y2841-,DF85-,FGC4108-,S588-,A259-,A260-,FGC4133-,CTS5396-,S5668-,FGC9777-,FGC9784-,FGC9786-,FGC9778-,Z20656-,A6-,Z16332-,A4-,Z17296-,Z17817-,Z17822-,Z17825-,Z18491-,Z21254-,Z21258-,Z21268-,Z21256-,Z21265-,L577-,Z16355-,Z16352-,Z16348-,Z16354-,Z16343-,Z16858-,Z16860-,Z16859-,CTS8890-,CTS11954-,CTS6942-,CTS6621-,CTS3573-,CTS11744-,Z16407-,Z16409-,ZW09-,FGC13415-,Y3556-,Y3557-,CTS750-,FGC13408-,CTS3087-,Y3558-,Z16363-,Z16364-,Z16369-,Z16365-,Z16383-,Z16376-,Z16377-,BY182-,Z18079-,BY17-,FGC11802-,Z16385-,Z16399-,FGC11808-,Z16388-,L96-,CTS3974-,CTS5714-,CTS4466-,S1122-,CTS11267-,S1128-,S1120-,S1121-,Z16521-,A159-,BY149-,Z17981-,A664-,A89-,A90-,A151-,A212-,Z255-,Z253-,L554-,Z2534-,FGC5641-,L226-,FGC5656-,FGC5646-,Y3133-,Y3137-,Y3135-,FGC5628-,Y4010-,Z2184-,Z2183-,CTS11831-,CTS11843-,Y6067-,Z18123-,Z18128-,FGC3221-,s856-,A494-,BY60-,FGC17433-,Z17693-,CTS5519-,CTS7306-,CTS9738-,CTS3394-,CTS5282-,CTS9805-,DF21-,Z16533-,S424-,S3057-,CTS9333-,CTS2187-,S309-,S427-,S308-,DF25-,Z248-,CTS3655-,L627-,Z16539-,Z16540-,L1403-,L1336-,L371-,CTS6581-,FGC8000-,Y2370-,S785-,s780-,S778-,Y4174-,S788-,s769-,Z16846-,s781-,F1680-,A45-,A43-,A48-,FGC5597-,FGC5594-,FGC5612-,MC07-,MC04-,A247-,L555-,L557-,S5284-,L1335-,CTS10008-,CTS6838-,CTS7030-,s744-,S7370-,S756-,S691-,Z13851-,PF5236-,CTS4931-,FGC10125-,L679-,DF63-,Z261-,L238-,Z2245-,Z2247-,DF19-,DF88-,L1199-,L1200-,CTS12966-,CTS4528-,S14328-,CTS5981-,PF7589-,CTS6889-,CTS11824-,Z2105-,CTS1843-,CTS7556-,CTS9219-,BY251-,PF7562-,PF7558-,PF7563-,CTS9995-,V88-,M18-,CTS10076-,S4037-,A769-,A766-,A770-,A683-,A767-,L217-,S3207-,CTS12023-,Z372-,S5739-,A512-,Z8190-,FGC14795-,s5750-,Z378-,Z375-,CTS11337-,PF1023-,FGC14840-,s4004-,S18823-,FGC13316-,A695-,FGC12306-,DF94-,L237-,L493-,YSC0000048-,FGC12120-,FGC11398-,FGC11379-,FGC11394-,FGC11413-,S11475-,FGC11378-,Y5058-,S22015-,Z212-,Z44-,DF110-,A1708-,A1722-,A1729-,A1710-,A1721-,A1716-,Z194-,BY721-,BY713-,BY673-,BY678-,BY710-,BY707-,BY709-,BY2267-,BY1474-,BY1097-,BY779-,BY1353-,BY1079-,Z16918-,Z16921-,A139-,A893-,Z17973-,Z16891-,Z16890-,Z16905-,FGC9661-,Z16925-,A905-,CTS3386-,Z16896-,Z16917-,FGC19437-,A892-,Z16927-,Z16922-,A911-,A173-,CTS10334-,A902-,Z16902-,A900-,A906-,A901-,Z18051-,Z16323-,CTS4573-,FGC6564-,ZP43-,Z2968-,BY203-,A883-,BY204-,BY202-,S673-,BY205-,FGC5939.2-,FGC12187-,FGC12768-,CTS9485-,L144-,A1237-,A1239-,A1236-,Z16432-,A1238-,A1240-,Z16423-,Z16428-,Z16419-,Z16424-,Z16426-,A507-,CTS11037-,A495-,A498-,A500+,S15280-,CTS10108-,A499-,A497-,Z18133-,Z16534-,Z16536-,Z16530-,Z16535-,Z16527-,Z16532-,Z16282-,A71-,Z16292-,Z16267-,Z16278-,Z16275-,S10807-,Z16841+,Z16274-,A78-,Z16290-,Z16266-,Z16832-,Z3004-,MC16-,MC01-,FGC5589-,A231-,Z18101-,A256-,Z16930-,Z16933-,Y2984-,A34-,S690-,PT1-,A850-,CTS4554-,Z16512-,Z16511-,Z16513-,Z16514-,Z16244-,A92-,A91-,Z18140-,Z16245-,A95-,Z17327-,Z17322-,Z21086-,Z21274-,Z17331-,Z21085-,Z17326-,Z21275-,Z17323-,Z21080-,Z17318-,A368-,Y4367-,S12460-,FGC21034-,SK2063-,PF6378-,CTS7141-,S11121-,S21184-,SK2137-,SK2138-,F3604-,F1092-,SK2153-,F1758-,FGC12582-,FGC12643-,SK2140-,L1069-,FGC17608-,L723-,FGC7156-,Y4665-,Y2915-,Y2904-,Y2901-,Y2902-


You can use that list with the ISOGG Y-Tree tool at http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/isogg-y-tree-addon-for-google-chrome.html and see the positive and negative SNPs highlighted when you go to http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

You should get the U152 SNP pack at at https://www.familytreedna.com/upgrades.aspx?ot=ADV or an STR test, if he hasn't had one, then a BigY test in order to find an SNP that is downstream from U152 that your father is positive for. The BigY test would be the best one and it would test him for all of the SNPs under U152 that can be seen at https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-U152/ plus it would test for novel SNPs that aren't tested by SNP packs or any other test except for FGC tests or YSEQ WGS testing. Z191 does not show up at ISOGG R tree, YFull R tree, or the FTDNA haplotree at https://www.familytreedna.com/my/y-dna-haplotree or the Z36 SNP pack so you should ignore Z191.

hannah-lena
01-18-2017, 06:24 PM
Wow, Thank you a lot !
That sounds really !!! complicated. So if I'm understanding you right his current Haplogroup is R-U152* (at least until I buy the big Y or the SNP-Pack)? Wow that's so amazing !!! I'm so happy because something is finally working and I finally have some more answers !!! Thank you soooo much Armando !!!
Will Ftdna show me the same results ?

puh, finally some helpful results :cheer2::cheer2:

ArmandoR1b
01-18-2017, 08:16 PM
hannah-lena, yes your father's current Haplogroup is R-U152* until you buy the big Y or the SNP-Pack. He is also negative for the following SNPs in red downstream from U152. He could be positive for SNPs not in red until you buy the BigY or the SNP-Pack.

• • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b1 L2/S139
• • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b2 S206/Z36
• • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b2~ L671
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b2a~ CTS188, CTS4333, CTS7958
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b2b~ CTS1595, CTS5531/PF6636, CTS8492
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b2b1~ S364/Z38, S479/Z54, Z37, Z143
• • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b3 PF6601/Z56
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b3a L4/S178
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b3b S47
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b3b~ L100
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b3c PF6578/S371/Z145, PF6584/S483/Z146, Z144
• • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b4~ S259/Z46, S482/Z71, S484/Z48, Z47
• • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b5~ CTS7193.2, F1493.2/M6377.2, PF4363
• • • • • • • • • • • • • R1b1a1a2a1a2b6~ L1358

FTDNA will give you his positive and negative results of whichever test you get for your father and put them red or green in the FTDNA haplotree. The following SNPs are included in the U152 SNP pack -
U152, L2, Z49, Z367, PF6610, Z192, Z36, CTS7193, A1773, A274, A517, Z43, PF6571, A275, A518, A520, BY3537, BY3539, BY3540, BY3542, BY3543, BY3546, BY3547, BY3549, BY3550, BY3552, BY3627, BY3630, BY3631, BY3636, BY3637, BY3642, BY3643, BY3644, BY3645, BY3646, BY3647, BY3648, BY3649, BY3651, BY3847, BY3848, BY3849, BY3850, BY3851, BY3852, BY3853, BY3854, BY3855, BY3856, BY3857, BY3858, BY3859, BY3860, BY3861, CTS11993, CTS2617, CTS4562, FGC30121, FGC30128, FGC30130, FGC30133, FGC30140, FGC30144, FGC5029, FGC5031, FGC5032, FGC5033, FGC5034, FGC5035, FGC5036, FGC5049, FGC5055, FGC5058, M9051, M9052, PH1525, S20550, S7793, S9788, Y16248, Y16250, Y16331, Y16333, Y16334, Y16335, Y17059, Y6354, Z10676, Z30042, Z30046, Z30059, Y8424

Includes the following SNPs that are NOT on the haplotree:
BY3628, BY3635, BY3639, BY3640, BY3841, BY3842, BY3843, BY3845, FGC7337, PF6603, PF6604, PF6605, PF6606, PF6607, PF6608, PF6612, PF6613, PF6614, PF6618, PF6619, PF6621, Z30030, Z30031, Z30032, Z30033, Z30035, Z30034, Z30036, Z30037, Z30038, Z30040, Z30043, Z30044, Z30045, Z30060

You should also join your father to the U152 FTDNA project at https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-u152/about/background

hannah-lena
01-18-2017, 08:38 PM
What about L671, Z56, S47 etc, which are not tested until now? Is Ftdna not testing them with the U152 SNP pack - because I can't find them in the list above...?
I'm going to wait until Ftdna fixed the problem so I can make the SNP-package :) !
Maybe it's also useful to make the y67 or the y111 marker-test so I can find the possible origin of my latest unknown paternal ancestor ( circa 1880)
Thank you!

TigerMW
01-18-2017, 10:45 PM
What about L671, Z56, S47 etc, which are not tested until now? Is Ftdna not testing them with the U152 SNP pack - because I can't find them in the list above...?
I'm going to wait until Ftdna fixed the problem so I can make the SNP-package :) !
Maybe it's also useful to make the y67 or the y111 marker-test so I can find the possible origin of my latest unknown paternal ancestor ( circa 1880)
Thank you!

For the most part, FTDNA looks for the best SNP (in their view for their testing methodologies) for use in SNP Packs. Oftentimes that means a phylogenetic equivalent SNP is used. I think in the case of Z56 they used Z42. I remember that S47 was not particularly good but I don't remember what substitute they used.

TigerMW
01-19-2017, 04:46 AM
This is probably more than you want but here is a tree-like view of what is in the U152 top-layer pack. Everything with a "1.00" is in the pack. Many of the others are phylogenetic equivalents. You can see, for example, that Z56 is not in the pack, but its equivalent, Z43, is.

1.00 U152/S28/PF6570 15333149-C-T
1.00 ^ A274 21387964-C-T
0.99 _ Y8424 23579267-G-T
1.00 ^ ^ A275 13668489-T-C
1.00 ^ A517 16515046-A-G
1.00 _ A518 23059272-C-A
1.00 _ BY3549 22478765-G-C
1.00 ^ ^ A520 16845082-A-G
1.00 ^ ^ BY3547 15797586-A-G
1.00 ^ L2/S139 05755550-C-T
1.00 ^ ^ Z367/S255 09810794-T-C
1.00 ^ ^ Z49 28462237-G-T
1.00 ^ PF6610 16504649-C-T
1.00 _ PF6613/Z30027 18081090-C-T
1.00 _ PF6603 06885889-C-T
1.00 _ PF6604 07064857-A-G
1.00 _ PF6605 07356161-G-A
1.00 _ PF6606 08890313-G-A
1.00 _ PF6607 14209634-C-A
1.00 _ PF6608 15635768-T-A
0.50 _ PF6609 16090262-T-C
0.50 _ PF6611 16707888-A-C
1.00 _ PF6612 16796415-G-T
1.00 _ PF6614 19154003-T-C
0.50 _ PF6615 19459933-A-G
0.50 _ PF6616 21275369-G-A
0.50 _ PF6617 21580546-G-A
1.00 _ PF6618 21862382-T-C
1.00 _ PF6619 22028629-G-A
0.50 _ PF6620 22459581-G-A
1.00 _ PF6621 22723087-C-A
0.50 _ PF6622 23017439-G-A
0.88 ^ PF6658 22440651-A-G
0.88 _ Z193 22439864-G-T
0.88 ^ ^ BY146 07717741-T-C
1.00 ^ ^ ^ FGC5033 08304660-A-G
1.00 _ _ _ FGC5034 08903434-G-T
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1.00 _ _ _ FGC5055 18868981-C-A
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0.80 _ _ _ FGC5065 23055457-A-T
1.00 ^ ^ ^ ^ FGC5029 06789627-G-A
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1.00 _ _ _ _ FGC5032 08010651-T-C
1.00 _ _ _ _ FGC5035 09845828-C-T
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0.80 _ _ _ _ FGC5045 16330401-T-C
0.80 _ _ _ _ FGC5047/F2299/M1389 16857240-T-A
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0.80 _ _ _ _ FGC5052 18082274-C-G
0.80 _ _ _ _ FGC5056/A7733 19010735-G-A
0.80 _ _ _ _ FGC5059/ZS2911 21477315-C-T
0.80 _ _ _ _ FGC5060 21568561-G-A
1.00 ^ ^ ^ BY3642 14109630-C-A
0.50 _ _ _ BY3654 23029655-CA-C
1.00 ^ ^ ^ ^ BY3627 06995659-G-A
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1.00 _ _ _ _ BY3851 16229553-T-C
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1.00 ^ ^ BY3639 13407674-G-A
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1.00 _ _ BY3640 13451088-T-C
1.00 _ _ BY3841 06475965-G-C
0.88 _ _ BY3844 13259457-C-T
1.00 _ _ BY3845 13464430-G-A
0.88 _ _ BY3846 13508594-G-T
1.00 ^ ^ CTS2617 14392649-A-T
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1.00 _ _ Y16333 23580754-A-G
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0.50 _ _ _ 13446390-A-G
0.50 _ _ _ 06068079-T-C
0.50 _ _ _ 03079273-C-T
1.00 ^ ^ ^ ^ Z30043 21780808-T-C
0.88 _ _ _ _ ZS2941 18952162-A-G
0.50 _ _ _ _ Z30041 19182597-A-T
1.00 _ _ _ _ Z30044 14866064-A-G
1.00 _ _ _ _ Z30045 14230734-G-T
1.00 _ _ _ _ Z30046 18092748-C-T
0.50 _ _ _ _ Z30047 17407716-C-T
0.50 _ _ _ _ Z30048 23332847-A-G
0.50 _ _ _ _ Z30049 14681760-G-C
0.80 _ _ _ _ Z30050 15464451-A-G
0.50 _ _ _ _ Z30051 28754068-A-G
0.80 _ _ _ _ Z30052 22020392-G-T
0.50 _ _ _ _ Z30053 22634712-G-A
0.50 _ _ _ _ Z30054 14272321-C-G
0.80 _ _ _ _ Z30055 17414178-G-C
0.50 _ _ _ _ Z30056 14720146-G-T
0.80 _ _ _ _ Z30057 16269641-A-G
0.80 _ _ _ _ Z30058 02891624-G-A
0.50 _ _ _ _ BY6642 08816972-G-T
0.50 _ _ _ _ 20812782-C-T
0.50 _ _ _ _ 08783924-C-T
0.50 _ _ _ _ 13480547-G-A
0.50 _ _ _ _ 04444684-C-G
0.80 _ _ _ _ 07835713-A-G
0.80 _ _ _ _ 08425980-C-T
0.50 _ _ _ _ 09939667-G-A
1.00 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Z30059 28805505-T-C
1.00 _ _ _ _ _ BY3843 08857603-G-A
1.00 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Z30060 14621244-A-G
1.00 _ _ _ _ _ FGC7337 19539530-C-T
0.50 _ _ _ _ _ 13451760-G-A
0.50 _ _ _ _ _ 13691297-T-A
0.50 _ _ _ _ _ 28718984-C-T
1.00 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ BY3635 08228295-A-G
1.00 _ _ _ _ _ BY3628 07621770-C-T
1.00 ^ ^ ^ PH1525 14928150-G-A
1.00 _ _ _ Y16248 08681571-C-T
1.00 _ _ _ Y16250 17579504-T-C
1.00 _ _ _ Y16331 18984799-G-T
1.00 _ _ _ Y16334 15207741-A-G
0.50 _ _ _ 22271650-C-T
1.00 ^ ^ CTS7193 17341572-G-C
1.00 _ _ BY3636 09109179-C-T
0.50 _ _ 09700303-G-A
1.00 _ _ BY3647 17508167-A-G
1.00 _ _ BY3649 19452640-A-G
0.50 _ _ 22239389-G-A
0.50 _ _ 22489179-G-T
0.50 _ _ 22489184-G-T
1.00 _ _ BY3860 23588915-C-G
1.00 ^ ^ S20550 18051007-T-C
1.00 _ _ FGC30121 07009462-G-C
1.00 _ _ FGC30128 14215540-C-T
1.00 _ _ FGC30130 16614379-T-C
1.00 _ _ FGC30133 18897738-G-A
1.00 _ _ FGC30140 22654657-C-A
1.00 _ _ FGC30144 23462712-G-A
0.80 _ _ 08880669-C-A
0.80 _ _ 08880741-G-C
1.00 ^ ^ ^ Y6354 22040235-A-C
0.50 _ _ _ 09377005-T-G
0.50 _ _ _ 09988214-G-C
1.00 _ _ _ BY3643 14187735-G-T
1.00 _ _ _ BY3847 15483200-A-T
1.00 _ _ _ BY3848 15485183-G-A
0.80 _ _ _ 15485779-G-A
1.00 _ _ _ BY3854 17040496-T-C
0.80 _ _ _ 17330600-C-T
0.80 _ _ _ 17386454-G-C
0.80 _ _ _ FGC39876 21456576-G-A
0.50 _ _ _ 22273354-G-C
0.50 _ _ _ 22463191-A-G
0.80 _ _ _ 23300651-G-A
1.00 ^ ^ ^ ^ Z10676 15706746-C-T
1.00 _ _ _ _ BY3644/A9024 14698033-A-G
0.80 _ _ _ _ 17235357-C-A
1.00 ^ ^ S7793 15936087-G-A
1.00 _ _ S9788 07065025-C-T
1.00 _ _ BY3630 07694785-C-T
1.00 _ _ BY3637 09136208-T-C
1.00 _ _ BY3645 15479792-G-C
1.00 _ _ BY3648 17781314-T-C
1.00 _ _ BY3651 21177224-T-C
0.80 _ _ 22647558-A-G
0.80 _ _ 23281515-C-T
1.00 ^ ^ Z192/PF6660 28688760-T-C
1.00 ^ ^ Z30030 23119461-G-A
0.50 _ _ Z30028 16979360-T-C
0.50 _ _ Z30029 15686657-C-A
1.00 _ _ Z30031 15693854-A-G
1.00 _ _ Z30032 07230050-C-T
1.00 _ _ Z30033 14187409-G-C
1.00 _ _ Z30034 07316546-G-A
1.00 _ _ Z30035 22869471-A-G
1.00 _ _ Z30036 21190119-T-C
0.50 _ _ BY6636 06087904-A-T
0.80 _ _ 07656277-C-G
0.80 _ _ 08001892-A-C
0.80 _ _ 08396225-G-T
0.80 _ _ 23579868-A-G
0.80 _ _ 23850780-A-G
0.80 _ _ 24401258-T-C
1.00 ^ ^ ^ Z30037 19104372-G-A
1.00 _ _ _ Z30038 14095950-A-C
1.00 _ _ _ Z30040 23057151-T-C
1.00 _ _ _ BY3842 08246899-G-A
0.50 _ _ _ 22512878-G-A
0.50 _ _ _ 22512878-G-A
1.00 ^ Z36/S206 04961118-A-G
1.00 ^ Z43/S366 08902876-G-A
0.88 _ Z56/PF6601 18848155-G-A
1.00 _ PF6571/Z42/S209 04547197-C-A
1.00 ^ BY3849 15500358-T-C
1.00 _ BY3543 08968256-G-A
1.00 _ BY3852 16347817-T-A
1.00 _ BY3853 17005725-C-T
1.00 _ BY3858 22704962-T-G
0.50 _ 24220856-A-T
1.00 ^ ^ A1773 07672136-C-T
1.00 _ _ M9051 09146920-T-C
1.00 _ _ M9052 09146921-G-C
0.50 _ _ 13680769-T-A
0.50 _ _ 15224002-G-A
1.00 _ _ BY3850 15812022-A-T
1.00 _ _ BY3857 17289240-A-T
1.00 _ _ BY3859 23119144-A-G
1.00 _ _ BY3861 23859605-C-T
1.00 ^ BY3550 23505791-C-T
1.00 ^ ^ BY3552 07162203-A-C
1.00 _ _ BY3537 07681745-C-G
1.00 _ _ Y17059 07925644-A-G
1.00 _ _ BY3539 08035841-A-C
1.00 _ _ BY3540 08170477-G-A
1.00 _ _ BY3542 08543676-C-G
0.50 _ _ 13234101-C-T
1.00 _ _ BY3546 14710274-G-T
0.50 _ _ 14805974-G-T
0.80 _ _ 15878370-G-A
0.80 _ _ 16549242-G-A
0.80 _ _ 16769198-A-G
0.50 _ _ 18093786-G-A
0.80 _ _ 18811093-T-C
0.80 _ _ 19080225-C-G
0.80 _ _ 21129332-C-T
0.80 _ _ 22095077-T-A
0.50 _ _ 22213074-C-T
0.50 _ _ 22437910-C-A
0.50 _ _ 22437962-A-G
0.50 _ _ 22444385-G-A
0.50 _ _ 22475271-T-C
0.50 _ _ 22484453-G-C
0.50 _ _ 22484455-T-A
0.80 _ _ 22917623-A-G
0.80 _ _ 23141758-C-T
0.80 _ _ 23147054-C-G
0.80 _ _ 23296559-G-A
0.80 _ _ Y18927 23632160-C-G

hannah-lena
01-19-2017, 09:34 AM
Very interesting Mike !
Since I wrote Ftdna two days ago they now changed the status in "Haplogroup predictions are currently being updated using new data. Your haplogroup prediction may change upon completion.". Very soon I guess I will be able to buy the SNP's!

ArmandoR1b
01-19-2017, 02:06 PM
What about L671, Z56, S47 etc, which are not tested until now? Is Ftdna not testing them with the U152 SNP pack - because I can't find them in the list above...?
Apart from what Mike explained, you can get individual SNPs tested quickly and cheaply at www.yseq.net if you want other SNPs tested that aren't in the SNP pack. It would be best to get wait for the SNP pack results though.


I'm going to wait until Ftdna fixed the problem so I can make the SNP-package :) !
You don't have to wait. You can login to his account then go to https://www.familytreedna.com/upgrades.aspx?ot=ADV then select SNP pack then scroll down to R1b - U152 SNP Pack then click ADD then at the top an Order Now option will show up and you can click on it. That will take you to cart and it will have a warning which you can ignore since the Geno 2.0 results reliably place him as U152 then male the payment. The results will be completed within 4 weeks.


Maybe it's also useful to make the y67 or the y111 marker-test so I can find the possible origin of my latest unknown paternal ancestor ( circa 1880)
Thank you!
Yes, that could be useful. He might not get a match and if he does it might not be someone that is of much help but you won't know until you get one of the tests. I would start with a 67 marker test. I would use the difference in cost between 67 and 111 markers towards a BigY test.

hannah-lena
01-19-2017, 09:27 PM
Ah okey ! I think I have to wait a little bit with the next test because it's very expensive. I will have to rob my piggy bank :)