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soulblighter
05-25-2013, 07:02 PM
"Don" posts regular STR trees for Z2123. Here is the latest one:

lgmayka
09-18-2013, 09:16 PM
Z2123 has two FTDNA-testable subclades, Y47 and Y874. As far as I know, no one yet has tested Y47+ with FTDNA, but kit N77532 has now tested Y874+ .

I encourage anyone who tested negative for Y47 to order the Y874 test.

lgmayka
01-02-2014, 04:18 AM
N3982 belongs to a Jewish cluster (not the Levite subclade). He has just tested Z2123+ .

soulblighter
01-02-2014, 06:04 PM
Latest tree according to "Don" at rodstvo:
Note: Only green lines are confirmed Z2123.



1154

sandeepchau123
11-19-2015, 10:02 AM
Latest tree according to "Don" at rodstvo:
Note: Only green lines are confirmed Z2123.



1154

I am also R1a-z2123+
ftdna kit 357604

Bulat
12-26-2015, 03:11 PM
I am also R1a-z2123+
ftdna kit 357604

Hello brother!:)

Please join in our project in FTDNA:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/suyun/default.aspx?section=yresults

I am Z2123 too.

Bulat
12-26-2015, 03:21 PM
http://f6.s.qip.ru/unNhZVDh.jpg

http://f5.s.qip.ru/unNhZVCW.png

http://f5.s.qip.ru/unNhZVCY.png


Our clan (Sakes-Dinlings line)

http://suyun.info/userfiles/BIG-Y%20SNPs%20of%20Saka-Dinlings%20line%20R1a-Y2632.png

http://suyun.info/userfiles/Y-DNA%20tree%20SNPs.png

http://suyun.info/userfiles/image003.png

http://suyun.info/userfiles/R1a-Y934,%20FGC10232+%20Bashkirs%20(Wusun%20cluster).p ng

Bulat
12-29-2015, 05:06 AM
I am also R1a-z2123+
ftdna kit 357604

Dear brother! Thank you for your join in our project! And your haplotype in TuranSurnames Project too. TuranSurnames our project too.

You are the descendants of Turanians.

According to Avesta Traetaona have had three sons: Sayrima, Turya and Iredzh.

Sayrima is ancestors of Sarmatians (R1a-Z280 and etc.);
Turya is ancestor of Turanians: Massagetaes-Alans (R1a-CTS1806, R1a-Y934* and etc), Sakes-Dinlings (R1a-Y2632 and etc.) and Wusun (R1a-FGC10232 and etc);
Iredzh is ancestor of Iranians (R1a-Z2122, R1a-Z2125 and etc.).

I want to order the SNP - Y2632 for 357604.
What others think about this? What subclade of 357604? From Y934?


Even if there is a negative result of Y2632. Although 357604 may be from Y934, but because it is not clear - but we are interested in our clan, the Y2632 also check does not prevent that our project and will do if that.

lgmayka
12-29-2015, 08:26 PM
I want to order the SNP - Y2632 for 357604.
Unless you are fairly certain that he is Y2632+ , I would suggest instead the R1a-Z93 SNP Pack, which is still $99 at the moment (although it may rise to $119 any day now).

laurie
01-03-2016, 03:50 AM
Hi Folks
I am the administrator of the Joyce Project at FTDNA and one of our member has just had his Big Y results posted showing that his terminal SNP is Z2123. This person belongs t our largest cluster which is related to Thomas de Jorse who fought for Llewellyn in Wales against Edward 1 and who arrived in County Galway in 1283. It appears that the line if of French Norman origin and possibly of Viking descent. Can anyone give me advice on other projects this person should join? Is there any evidence of Z2123 having Viking or Scandinavian links?
I personally am in the R1b project and there are administrators there who are doing a lot of work on BAM file analysis. Is there an equivalent body of work occuring with R1a and in particular with Z2123?
Cheers
Laurie Joyce

Dr_McNinja
01-03-2016, 04:18 AM
Is he on YFull? There's a person listed as 'GBR' under Z2123.

lgmayka
01-03-2016, 05:27 AM
Is there an equivalent body of work occuring with R1a and in particular with Z2123?
If you mean kit 359531 in the R1a Project, an administrator will do his best. But I would still suggest submitting his BAM file to YFull.

laurie
01-03-2016, 09:12 AM
If you mean kit 359531 in the R1a Project, an administrator will do his best. But I would still suggest submitting his BAM file to YFull.

Thanks Igmayka - yes that is the kit number and I have suggested a Yfull analysis:)

Bulat
01-03-2016, 04:03 PM
Hi Folks
I am the administrator of the Joyce Project at FTDNA and one of our member has just had his Big Y results posted showing that his terminal SNP is Z2123. This person belongs t our largest cluster which is related to Thomas de Jorse who fought for Llewellyn in Wales against Edward 1 and who arrived in County Galway in 1283. It appears that the line if of French Norman origin and possibly of Viking descent. Can anyone give me advice on other projects this person should join? Is there any evidence of Z2123 having Viking or Scandinavian links?
I personally am in the R1b project and there are administrators there who are doing a lot of work on BAM file analysis. Is there an equivalent body of work occuring with R1a and in particular with Z2123?
Cheers
Laurie Joyce

May be your Thomas de Jorse, which with Z2123 - are an descendants of Aorsen-Sarmatians.



Aorsen (Aorsi) - one of the fourth tribes from Sarmatian Union nomads. Probably, aorsen spoken on the one of the ancient Indo-European languages.

Aorsen at the end of 1 millennium BC. lived from Ural to the Don.[1]

The Aorsen by origin from Saka tribes.[2][3] Some researchers indicate that the name Aorsen really mean Aorsai - i.e. a union Auar (ugric) and Sai (saka) tribes.[4] According to another version 'aorsen' mean 'white' from Indo-European languages.

From 2 century B.C. the part of aorsen begins a migration from Ural to east and west.

In 2 century A.D. Western Aorsen the migrated from Ural to Oder River, and they were known in ancient written sources as alanorsi (ie union of Alans and Aorsen).

The eastern part of Aorsen in 1-2 century A.D. goes from Ural to Tarbagatai and Dzungaria, and there are mentioned in Chinese annals as a tribe Abars.[5]

Bibliography
Tarn W. W. The Greek in Bactria and India. Cambridge, 1951.
Vernadsky G. A History of Russia (Yale Press) ISBN 0-300-00247-5, Volume 1. Ancient Russia, 1943.
Смирнов К.Ф. Савроматы. Ранняя история и культура сарматов. М., 1964.


References
1. Tarn W. W. The Greek in Bactria and India. Cambridge, 1951, P.80-81.
2. Вишневская О. А., Итина М.А. Ранние саки Приаралья. В кн:: Проблемы скифской археологии. М., 1971, C.207-208.
3. Смирнов К.Ф. Савроматы. Ранняя история и культура сарматов. М., 1964, С.191; Толстов С.П. Древний Хорезм. М., 1948, С.220, 244.
4. Муратов Б.А., Суюнов Р.Р. Саки-динлины, аорсы, Ашина и потомки кланов Дешти-Кипчака по данным ДНК-генеалогии//Вестник Академии ДНК-генеалогии (Бостон, США) → Том 7, №8, Август 2014, стр. 1198-1226.
5. Муратов Б.А., Суюнов Р.Р. ДНК-генеалогия башкирских родов из сако-динлинской подветви R1a+Z2123//T.III. ЭИП "Суюн". Суюнов Р.Р. Гены наших предков. Vila do Conde, Lidergraf, 2013, 250 c., C.66, ISBN 978-5-9904583-4-5

Bulat
01-03-2016, 04:06 PM
The Aorsen migrations:

http://suyun.info/userfiles/082014_2%20(7).png

Bulat
01-03-2016, 04:09 PM
Thanks Igmayka - yes that is the kit number and I have suggested a Yfull analysis:)
can you the Your Irish and English Z2123 - to join in our project Soraman in FTDNA? Because i am Z2123 too.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/suyun/default.aspx?section=yresults

markjoyce
01-03-2016, 10:36 PM
Laurie thank you for this post on my behalf and your wider work on behalf of the Joyce project. I have just received my 'Big Y' results which show my ancestry as Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2125>Z2123>Y934*. The results also show that I have 26 private SNPs. I would welcome any advice and guidance the members of this site may be able to offer. I am of course more than willing to share any data and assistance I can offer in return. Many thanks. Mark Joyce.

parasar
01-04-2016, 03:47 AM
Laurie thank you for this post on my behalf and your wider work on behalf of the Joyce project. I have just received my 'Big Y' results which show my ancestry as Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2125>Z2123>Y934*. The results also show that I have 26 private SNPs. I would welcome any advice and guidance the members of this site may be able to offer. I am of course more than willing to share any data and assistance I can offer in return. Many thanks. Mark Joyce.


http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4664-Request-Y-DNA-haplogroup-results-from-Allentoft-2015&p=91355&viewfull=1#post91355

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4540-Y15121-Prussian-Sri-Lankan-subclade-within-R1a-Z2123&p=85290&viewfull=1#post85290

Bulat
01-05-2016, 04:37 AM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Aorsen.jpg

markjoyce
02-06-2016, 09:48 AM
Hi All,

Firstly many thanks for your continued support and advice. I downloaded and shared my 'BAM File' with the YFull Team early last month. The YFull Team will show my sample in 'YTree' soon (if not already).
Around the end of this month of February they will complete analysis of my SNPs. Then after a few weeks changes will be made to YTree and then about 1-2 months later my STRs will be read.So the hunt goes on and I'll let you know how I get on. Best Wishes.

markjoyce
02-06-2016, 09:51 AM
Hi Bulat - I have joined project Soraman. Thanks for the invitation.

lgmayka
02-06-2016, 09:43 PM
The YFull Team will show my sample in 'YTree' soon (if not already).
Are you YF05079 (http://yfull.com/tree/R-Y934/)?

markjoyce
02-19-2016, 12:22 AM
Igmayka - thank you.

The latest data I have from YFULL is as follows:

Y-Haplogroup: R-Y934
Hg variants: R-Y934*, R-Y7094*
Terminal SNPs: Y934
* Based on YFull YTree v4.01

sandeepchau123
02-19-2016, 10:01 AM
@Igmayka: What could be reason behind getting R-z2123 almost everywhere. I am Indian and detected Z2123. then again there are few from Central asia. Mark is from England. are they sharing common history though its presence widespread?
in case of L657 thats not the case. almost all are from Indian subcontinent.

lgmayka
02-22-2016, 03:25 AM
What could be reason behind getting R-z2123 almost everywhere. I am Indian and detected Z2123. then again there are few from Central asia. Mark is from England. are they sharing common history though its presence widespread?
Ancestral Journeys says (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml) that Z2123 was found at:
(Sintashta) Stepnoe, Russia, ~2000 B.C.
(Srubnaya) Spiridonovka, Russia, ~1700 B.C.
(Karasuk) Sabinka, Russia, ~1300 B.C.

YFull shows (http://yfull.com/tree/R-Z2123/) a rapid expansion roughly 3800 years ago of R-Z2123, then its subclade R-Y934, then its subclade R-Y15121. All three (Z2123, Y934, and Y15121) have a nominal TMRCA of 3800 ybp. Thus, the most downstream clade with that age, R-Y15121, may be the key. R-Y15121 includes lineages from many different countries.

Amerijoe
02-22-2016, 02:06 PM
Hi Igmayka: Just to verify the many different countries, born Paisley, Scotland, recently identified as Y15121*. I'm having an extensive Y analysis being processed with results to be available in April. Am I too presumptive to conclude, since I do not match any of other members of the Y15121 group, a new sub-clad would be designated? Results should be interesting.

lgmayka
02-22-2016, 03:54 PM
I'm having an extensive Y analysis being processed with results to be available in April. Am I too presumptive to conclude, since I do not match any of other members of the Y15121 group, a new sub-clad would be designated?
A new subclade requires a reliable shared SNP, more recent than Y15121 itself. We can't be sure right now whether your full-Y test will find such a SNP. But in general: The more R-Y15121 men take a full-Y test, the more likely such subclades become.

Right now, YFull has two Big Y customers on its R-Y15121 haplotree (http://yfull.com/tree/R-Y15121/). One more R-Y15121 member has submitted his BAM file to YFull, and another R-Y15121 member (or two?) has just ordered the Big Y.

lgmayka
02-22-2016, 04:00 PM
R-Y15121 includes lineages from many different countries.
The R1a Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1a?iframe=yresults) currently shows R-Y15121 members with the following patrilineal ancestries:
East Prussia
Poland
Bulgaria
Spain
Yemen
Iran
Iraq
(guesses based on surnames)
Britain?
France?

mazindoul
03-20-2016, 04:48 PM
Joe

thatnks for your pm

However I cant reply because I still dont have 10 posts in the forum

Please pm me your email

Regards,
Mazin

Bulat
04-07-2016, 08:17 PM
http://cs627331.vk.me/v627331195/4ae50/IODyTzQiy_E.jpg

Look at:

http://cs627331.vk.me/v627331195/4ae50/IODyTzQiy_E.jpg

Bulat
04-25-2016, 10:24 AM
I ordered for Eisenstein # kit of his N3982 http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Bashqort_Clans/default.aspx?section=yresults SNP Y2632 - because the part of Ashkenazi with this Snp. Another part of the Ashkenazi has Z2122 SNP, that characterizes the Levites and descendants of the Khazars.

Z2123, Y2632+ Ashkenazim are descended from the Scythians (Saka), and the Ashkenazi Z2122 - it are the Levites and descendants of the Khazars

He are my distant relative, but the common ancestor of his clan and our lived 4200-4000 years ago, in the Bronze Age B).

This SNP Y2632 - characterize Sakes-Dinlings line (Scythians). But in #N3982 did not have Snp Y2632 - so I ordered it to him, to know exactly what #N3982 are from our Sakes-Dinlings line or not.

His and my ancestors - the Scythians (Saka). But his ancestors converted to Judaism and became the Ashkenazi-Jews, and my ancestors were Nomads and later became part of the Bashkir people.

As you know the Scythians in the Bible and the Torah are called Ashkenazi.

It is therefore not surprising that the Ashkenazi Z2123 have our subclade Y2632.

This subclade Y2632 distributed from the Bashkirs-Saxins, Seistanians, Punjabians, Lahorians - because these peoples are Scythian (Saka) origin.

If #N3982 have Y2632 positive, like other Ashkenazi Y2632, that means him need to order panel of Y2632 SNPs.

lgmayka
04-25-2016, 03:11 PM
If #N3982 have Y2632 positive, like other Ashkenazi Y2632, that means him need to order panel of Y2632 SNPs.
Kit 242535 in that Ashkenazi cluster ordered the R1a-Z93 SNP Pack, which found him to be

Y2632+ Y2633+ SUR51-

Bulat
04-25-2016, 05:42 PM
Kit 242535 in that Ashkenazi cluster ordered the R1a-Z93 SNP Pack, which found him to be

Y2632+ Y2633+ SUR51-

Thanks. No wonder, because the common ancestor between Ashkenazi Y2632 and our clan - lived 4200-4000 years ago, in the Bronze Age (I.Rozhanskii (c) ) or 3200-3000 years ago, in the Iron Age (T.Uzdenov (c) ).

http://www.rodstvo.ru/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=7109&view=findpost&p=136481

Bulat
04-25-2016, 06:33 PM
The ancestors of Karachays-Balkars R1a-Y934 - Massagetaes-Alans.

The ancestors of the Bashkirs and Spanish R1a-FGC10232 - Wusun (Asuen, Asii).

A Massagetaes means in translation 'Great horde of Saka' or 'large Scythians', in Chinese language - Da Yuezhi.

But ancestors of my clan - they're a 'small horde of Saka' or 'small Scythians' (in Turkic - kapsaki), in Chinese language - Xiao Yuezhi (小 月氏), or Kue-She, they also Tsin-Cha - which means' Kipchak ' (Cumans).

Xiao Yuezhi associated with Dinlings, so our branch called Saka-Dinlings. I hope you know that Kipchaks - is the western branch of Dinlings?

And big Scythians (Massagetaes) and small Scythians (kapsaki) is all Saka, the culture was so similar that scientists call them and Saka-Massagetaes tribes (or in Avesta they with name - the Turanians). One of the parts of Massagetaes was known as Asuen (Asii, Wusun) for them - a typical SNP - FGC10232.

According to the DNA test: descendants of Wusun (Asii, Asuen) and Massagetaes-Alans - more related to each other, because they have a common SNP - Y934.

Saka-Dinlings - I mean our clan, stand apart from Massagetaes-Alans and Wusun (Asii, Asuen), because we haven't Snp Y934.

All these three sub-branches - are Turanians (Z2123).

Bulat
02-20-2017, 03:52 PM
Hello at all!

I noticed that Vladimir Tagankin aka Semargl gives his format already open SNPs - and assigns them their own series or under the letters Y or YP.

For example SNP SUR86, was opened by us in 2014, but in last year (2016) this SNP SUR86 was marked by Semargl his name - Y20746.


Ok well, no problem. But now, i take the example from Tagankin and is now, the SNPs who was open of Semargl for example Y2632 and others, will call their our names.

Y2632 = SUR250 in our project, now.

lgmayka
02-20-2017, 11:06 PM
For example SNP SUR86, was opened by us in 2014, but in last year (2016) this SNP SUR86 was marked by Semargl his name - Y20746.
That SNP has its own dbSNP (rs) number (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects/SNP/snp_ref.cgi?rs=866163023). So perhaps neither you nor YFull was the discoverer? Here is the Ybrowse entry for this rs number (http://ybrowse.org/gb2/gbrowse_details/chrY?ref=ChrY;start=18853478;end=18853478;name=rs8 66163023;class=Sequence;feature_id=568858;db_id=ch rY%3Adatabase). It exactly matches the Ybrowse entry for SUR86 (http://ybrowse.org/gb2/gbrowse_details/chrY?ref=ChrY;start=18853478;end=18853478;name=SUR 86;class=Sequence;feature_id=233654;db_id=chrY%3Ad atabase).

Bulat
02-21-2017, 07:04 AM
That SNP has its own dbSNP (rs) number (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects/SNP/snp_ref.cgi?rs=866163023). So perhaps neither you nor YFull was the discoverer? Here is the Ybrowse entry for this rs number (http://ybrowse.org/gb2/gbrowse_details/chrY?ref=ChrY;start=18853478;end=18853478;name=rs8 66163023;class=Sequence;feature_id=568858;db_id=ch rY%3Adatabase). It exactly matches the Ybrowse entry for SUR86 (http://ybrowse.org/gb2/gbrowse_details/chrY?ref=ChrY;start=18853478;end=18853478;name=SUR 86;class=Sequence;feature_id=233654;db_id=chrY%3Ad atabase).

Thanks.

Really the sequencer of FTDNA is a entry for all SNPs from Big-Y.

mlg
05-13-2018, 03:36 PM
Could someone throw light on the distribution, migration paths and TMRCA of R1a Z2123 and it’s Y46 subclade? Thank you.

Ricardoni
06-23-2018, 03:54 PM
Aorsen image

Newer research indicates Sarmatian homeland in Western Kazakhstan, Atyrau region.

Ulash
08-13-2018, 10:41 PM
Hello, I am from Ankara, Turkey. I tested Y-12 and got my results as R1a. After that, I’ve joined the R1a Project and they have assigned me as “Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2125>Z2123>Y934>Y7094>YP5227-x1 (Z2123,Y934,Y7094,YP5227 not tested; Big Y or Z93 SNP pack needed)”

Now I got a Y-67 test and waiting for the results. What these subclades mean for me?

Bulat
09-02-2018, 04:50 AM
Hello, I am from Ankara, Turkey. I tested Y-12 and got my results as R1a. After that, I’ve joined the R1a Project and they have assigned me as “Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2125>Z2123>Y934>Y7094>YP5227-x1 (Z2123,Y934,Y7094,YP5227 not tested; Big Y or Z93 SNP pack needed)”

Now I got a Y-67 test and waiting for the results. What these subclades mean for me?

You are a descendant of the Asiens-Alans by str-markers.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Bashqort_clans/default.aspx?section=yresults

744183 Akdoğan Yosmahasan, b. 1852 and d. 1931, Şereflikoçhisar Turkey R-M198 13 25 15 11 11-14 12 12 10 13 11 32 15 9-10 11 11 24 14 19 31 12-15-15-16 11 12 19-23 17 17 17 19 33-39 12 11 11 8 17-17 8 12 10 8 12 10 12 22-22 15 10 12 12 13 8 14 23 22 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 13


You said me, that you is a representative of the clan of Bechene, in Russian - Pechenegs.

In the nearest matches, you have the Karachay Botashevs and Portuguese from the subclade Y934.

326188 Botashev Botash, Kart-Jurt Russian Federation R-YP451 13 25 15 11 12 14 12 12 10 13 11 31 15 9 10 11 11 25 14 20 31 12 14 15 17 11 12 19 23 16 17 17 19 34 37 12 11

240222 Botash Mustafa-Hadji Botash, b. 1815 and d. 1935 Russian Federation R-M173 13 25 15 11 12 14 12 12 10 13 11 31 15 9 10 11 11 25 14 20 31 12 14 15 17 11 12 19 23 16 17 17 19 34 37 12 11 11 8 17 17 8 12 10 8 11 10 12 22 22 15 10 12 12 13 8 14 23 21 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 13

N3798 Raghavendra Kamath 1913-1989 Karkal India India R-Z94 13 25 16 11 11 14 12 12 10 13 11 31 15 9 10 11 11 24 19 20 30 12 15 15 16 11 11 19 23 16 16 17 19 35 35 12 11 11 8 17 17 8 11 10 8 11 10 12 22 22 15 10 12 12 13 8 13 23 21 13 13 11 13 11 11 12 13

270216 Schoenbach Schoenbach, 1849, Deutsch Crone, Pommern Unknown Origin R-Z93 13 25 16 11 11 14 12 12 10 13 11 32 15 9 10 11 11 24 14 20 33 12 15 15 16 11 11 19 23 15 16 17 19 34 40 12 12 11 8 17 17 8 12 10 8 11 10 12 22 22 15 10 12 12 14 8 14 22 21 12 12 11 13 11 11 12 13

http://suyun.info/index.php?LANG=ENG&p=b


By autosomes, you are a typical descendant of nomads, you have:
55 percent of his autosomes from Anatolia
5% Eastern Europe
4% Norway
4% Central Asia
19% Northeast Asia
7% Siberia

Your anthro-type is a dolichocephal.

P.S. It is noteworthy that the Arabic chronicler of the 10th century Al-Biruni reported that the language of the Alan of the Volga is similar to the language of the Pechenegs.

http://suyun.info/userfiles/bulletin/2018-5/alanian_language.png

Bulat
09-27-2018, 02:08 AM
@Igmayka: What could be reason behind getting R-z2123 almost everywhere. I am Indian and detected Z2123. then again there are few from Central asia. Mark is from England. are they sharing common history though its presence widespread?
in case of L657 thats not the case. almost all are from Indian subcontinent.

Because R1a-Z2123 were warrior-Nomads.

The eastern Z2123 most are found in China, Korea.
the most western Z2123 in Spain and Ireland, Portugal, United Kingdom.
the most southern Z2123 in India, Shri-Lanka.
the most northern Z2123 n the Ural and Siberia - this is in fact a huge geography. :)

jmestres
10-13-2019, 01:10 AM
Hi Ulash, it would be good it you would transfer your BAM file to Yfull.
I am Y7094>Y5992, so we are 4,000-years old cousins.