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firemonkey
01-21-2017, 04:22 PM
Found this in Wikipedia article for Charles Henry Gatty who funded the Gatty Marine laboratory in St Andrews.


The family originated in Bodmin in Cornwall and before that were the Gatti family of Insubria in Italy.

Whether I (a)connect to the Cornish Gattys is very possible ,via a dna match, but as yet unproven. I'm stuck on my 4th gt who married at Liverpool in 1810. (b) Whether there was more than one unrelated family that took up the name Gatty is another issue though given the rarity of the name I doubt it.

I know very little about Insubria other than it seems to be in the Lombardy region of Italy.

If there's any Italian connection to my Gattys it must be very far back.

Via Gedmatch I get HarappaWorld 18 italian (hgdp) 27.02
19 italian @ 29.941566 (1 pop approx)

Gedrosia 12 9 Sicilian 32.67
9 Sicilian @ 33.865150 (Least squares)


Eurasia K11

15 Tuscan 18.83
15 Tuscan @ 19.648794 (Least squares)
19 Sicilian @ 26.657230 (Least squares)

Eurasia K10

20 Tuscan 19.97
20 Tuscan @ 21.413195 (Least squares)

Gedrosia K15

15 Bergamo 26.6
19 Sicilian 32.71
15 Bergamo @ 28.646030 (Least squares)
20 Sicilian @ 35.513645 (Least squares)


My father gets

Eurogenes J

18 North_Italian 21.38
20 North_Italian @ 24.715273 (Least squares)

Eurogenes EU

18 North_Italian 21.48
20 North_Italian @ 24.740137 (Least squares)

HarappaWorld

18 italian (hgdp) 24.89
19 italian @ 27.547899 (Least squares)

puntDNAL K12

20 Italian_Bergamo 15.98


Eurasia K9

20 Tuscan 19.25

Eurasia K10

20 Tuscan 19.1
20 Tuscan @ 20.490601 (Least squares)

Eurasia K11

11 Tuscan 15.54
17 Sicilian 22.77
12 Tuscan @ 16.552734 (Least squares)
17 Sicilian @ 24.333282(Least squares)

Gedrosia K15

12 Bergamo 23.38
16 Sicilian 28.7
12 Bergamo @ 25.142578 (Least squares)
16 Sicilian @ 31.119980(Least squares)

Eurasia K14

18 Tuscan 14.26
17 Tuscan @ 14.785294 (Least squares)


Near east Neolithic K13

19 Italian_South 23.96
20 Sicilian 24.22
19 Italian_South @ 24.872990(Least squares)
20 Sicilian @ 25.187073(Least squares)

C J Wyatt III
01-21-2017, 07:05 PM
I saw a Gatty a few days ago on a GEDmatch 'one-to-many' list. I should have saved the kit number for you. If I see anymore, I'll PM you the numbers.

Jack

firemonkey
01-21-2017, 07:59 PM
I saw a Gatty a few days ago on a GEDmatch 'one-to-many' list. I should have saved the kit number for you. If I see anymore, I'll PM you the numbers.

Jack

Probably me -Timothy Gatty T113527 M812599 A050067

or my father -Trevor Gatty T934034

C J Wyatt III
01-21-2017, 09:50 PM
Probably me -Timothy Gatty T113527 M812599 A050067

or my father -Trevor Gatty T934034

It wasn't. I wish I could remember whose 'one-to-many' list I saw it on.

Jack

firemonkey
01-22-2017, 01:11 AM
The main 'Gattys' that appear from a Gedmatch search apart from mine are from Tasmania. This branch came to Australia via a convict ancestor from Northern Ireland. He was originally a Getty but the Getty became Gatty as in the Irish brogue Getty is pronounced like Gatty.

The person with that Gedmatch kit does not appear on my one to many list nor on my father's.

Calas
01-22-2017, 02:02 AM
Out of curiosity are you only looking around Cornwall?

You mention your troublesome Liverpool-married Gatty. But am not sure if you're aware Gatty can be found in and around the Midlands up through Yorkshire to Durham. Mind you it might be a variation on a similar Gaelic/Scottish surname. However, if you check a few websites that do surname frequency they do note the northernly Gattys too.

There's one such website that actually barely registered any southern Gattys but gives you northern ones in bucketfuls.


Oh, one thing to consideration is not just to aim for DNA relatives by the name Gatty. Do you know anything about your Liverpool Gatty for example. Mother, sister, daughters. You'll be missing out on the female side, sisters, daughters, etc. who may have some family clues.

firemonkey
01-22-2017, 03:06 AM
Out of curiosity are you only looking around Cornwall?

You mention your troublesome Liverpool-married Gatty. But am not sure if you're aware Gatty can be found in and around the Midlands up through Yorkshire to Durham. Mind you it might be a variation on a similar Gaelic/Scottish surname. However, if you check a few websites that do surname frequency they do note the northernly Gattys too.

There's one such website that actually barely registered any southern Gattys but gives you northern ones in bucketfuls.


Oh, one thing to consideration is not just to aim for DNA relatives by the name Gatty. Do you know anything about your Liverpool Gatty for example. Mother, sister, daughters. You'll be missing out on the female side, sisters, daughters, etc. who may have some family clues.

Could you provide me with links to those sites? At the moment my focus is on Cornwall in light of the recent dna match that included a Gatty ancestor from Cornwall. However with the limited info I have it's a very scatter gun approach with France and Ireland also considered as possibilities.
The British Gatty/Gatty seem to have started in Cornwall and then branched to Devon and London and from there Leicestershire,Nottinghamshire,Yorkshire etc.

From Lancashire my branch moved to the Midlands(Birmingham ) at the end of the 19th century. I know next to nothing about my Liverpool Gatty apart from he was described as a "Gentleman" but from what I know "Gentleman" is open to quite large interpretation. He had two other sons apart from my 3 gt but the evidence ie quick baptisms after birth suggests they may have died young. They certainly don't appear in the 1841 census.
William Gatty appears as innkeeper at the Commercial inn ,Bolton in an 1815 Bolton directory but by 1818 his wife had taken over.
This leads me to believe William died c1817/18.
However no burial in Bolton was found for William that might have given clues as to age etc.

Calas
01-22-2017, 10:55 AM
Could you provide me with links to those sites?

This one may look a bit unprofessional. But it is quite good. Was rather accurate for where my unusual surname can be found in England. http://named.publicprofiler.org/

This one you need to pay for anything real useful. I just use it - free signup, you got to pay to view anything - to review census records. http://www.rootsuk.com/ The thing is, is looking up Gatty for you there's more in Cornwall sure in 1841 [the "oldest" census they have] but there's still 4 in Cumberland, 3 in Durham, 9 in Lancashire & 3 in Yorkshire. Their 1891 census is interesting as there's none apparently in Cornwall, 15 in Lancashire, 10 in Yorkshire and 27 in London.

This one use the 1881 census http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/

Then of course this one http://www.ancestry.com/learn/facts

This you don't really need an email as they don't send anything useful. G @ gmail.com would do for example. http://worldnames.publicprofiler.org/




I know next to nothing about my Liverpool Gatty apart from he was described as a "Gentleman" but from what I know "Gentleman" is open to quite large interpretation.

The nice thing about the old families is names are generally hereditary.


I thought Gatty was familiar. None of these professions are to be found among average joe really back in the day.

Gatty, Alfred, 1825. Son of Robert Gatty. b. 1813. Ex. Coll. Oxf. D.D. Vicar of Ecclesfield. Sub-dean of York.

Gatty, Charles, 1803. Son of William Gatty. b. 1789. Clerk in the Exchequer Court. Assistant Registrar of Charterhouse, d. 1871. He's recorded as a "gentleman" elsewhere

Gatty,* Charles Tindal, 1863. Son of the Rev. Dr. Alfred Gatty (above), b. 1851. Curator of Meyer's Museum, Liverpool.

Gatty, Edward, 1805. Brother of Charles Gatty (above). b. 1792. Solicitor; d. 1872.

Gatty, Henry, 1803. Brother of the above, b. 1790. Army Surgeon. Royal Artillery; d. 1858.

Gatty,* Robert Henry, 1838-47. Brother of the above. b. 1828. Orator. Trin. Coll. Oxf. Vicar of Buckden, Hants.

Gatty, William Henry Caryer, 1873. Son of the above. b. 1861.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/List_of_Carthusians,_1800%E2%80%931879/G


I'll make the assumption that your inn-keeper Gatty is related somewhere. Sure it isn't as high status as a solicitor or army surgeon but he'd have to have had some degree of education that went beyond basics. He'd have to have known how to keep the books [mathematics] and how to read at the very least. There's also the fact he likely, at least my inn-keeper ancestor did, owned the building outright = money.


Hope that helps.



Though there's one problem with the surname Gatty. It isn't like typical surnames. Gatty, if it isn't a misspelling of the Scottish surname, originates as a nickname for the name Gertrude. Everyone has heard of paternal surnames, e.g. Erikson. Gatty was based off of the child's mother.

I know of at least one individual, not related to me but what I saw looking up my own surname, whose son somehow became a Gatty. There's no mention of a mother unfortunately so can't tell you how exactly that happened as I can't remember the link/name.

Calas
01-22-2017, 11:06 AM
Found this in Wikipedia article for Charles Henry Gatty who funded the Gatty Marine laboratory in St Andrews.


The family originated in Bodmin in Cornwall and before that were the Gatti family of Insubria in Italy.


This I am not so sure about. The entire quote, taken from another website, draws the assumption because the Cornwall Gattys old coat of arms was supposedly the same as the Gattis. Thing is, is the Gatti coat of arms is a cat. The surname Gatti originates from a "cat-like" person.

On the other hand, the Scottish variation to Gatty is related to pikes, spears, weapons, etc. And the name Gertrude, for which the other variation of Gatty originates, is likewise related to spikes, weapons, etc.

So I don't exactly see a cat being their coat of arms.


I'll see if I can find it again, as just moved, but there's an old book online that gives a breakdown of English coat of arms. Gatty maybe mentioned.

firemonkey
01-22-2017, 12:07 PM
Can you tell me more about the Scottish variation of Gatty.

Calas
01-22-2017, 10:35 PM
Can you tell me more about the Scottish variation of Gatty.

Sure I'll PM you now that I have post count rather than steal the thread anymore.

firemonkey
01-29-2017, 06:27 PM
My father is still sceptical. How should I best answer this?


Hi Tim. Very interesting Can you explain the significance of the DNA match to me? Is the match to Elizabeth certain, or if not, can one put a percentage value on the probability? Or, to put it another way, as they often do in Court. is there a one in (x) thousandth likelihood of another person having the same match? On the face of it, the connection seems a little tenuous to me. I would treasure a Cornish connection, but would not want to let that warp my judgement. If we could rely on that connection it could take us right back to 1440

How much on the figures previously quoted is it likely to be a false positive(percentage wise)