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View Full Version : Based on your paper trail, what are you expecting your living DNA results to be?



sktibo
01-22-2017, 12:39 AM
In anticipation of the first big batch of DNA results, I think it would be fun to compile a list of what we expect our ethnicity estimates to be, based on the where our ancestors were born. If possible, we could "translate" the birth locations of our ancestors into living DNA regions. For example, if a great grandparent was born in Glasgow, that would be one ggparent in the "Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland" category.

I'm hoping if people add to this thread we will be able to use it as a reference to get an idea as to how close to our paper trails this new DNA test gets.

Here's mine using 4th great grandparents (estimate, excluding some small ethnicities)

6x France
13x Germanic
4x Northeast Europe
8x Central England
5x South Central England or Welsh Border
1x South England
2x Lincolnshire
1x Northumbria
6x Ireland
4x Northwest Scotland
1x Orkney
4x Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland
2x Aberdeenshire
2x Unknown Scotland
4x Unknown England
1x Unknown Colonial American

20% Germanic, 12.5% Central England, 9% France, 9% Ireland, 7.8% S Central England or Welsh Border, 6.25% NE Europe, 6.25% NW Scotland, 6.25% SW Scotland/NI, 3% Lincolnshire, 3% Aberdeenshire, 1.5% Orkney, 1.5% Northumbria, 1.5% South England, 10.9% Uncertain.

chelle
01-22-2017, 05:15 AM
Being the classic all-American mutt it might be tricky to get as detailed as your estimate. I will try in a bit based of what information I have in my tree. Primarily, I expect much of mine to be reflective of Ulster Scot/Scots-Irish (whichever term you prefer) heritage, a bit of scattered English(perhaps Yorkshire, Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Kent) a small amount of Welsh, various European West and the big mystery will be how they break down my 25% Jewish. I am thinking that will be a split of central/eastern European and Italian maybe with a dash of North African or Levant. Most of my ancestors have been in the U.S. since colonial times and my maternal great grandparents were Russian-Jewish immigrants in the late 1800's early 1900's. I hope my dna isn't too much of a jumbled mess to get a clear picture of regions. haha I am in the February 20th time frame batch. I hope I don't get the dreaded delayed again email. The suspense is killing me.

sktibo
01-22-2017, 05:40 AM
Being the classic all-American mutt it might be tricky to get as detailed as your estimate. I will try in a bit based of what information I have in my tree. Primarily, I expect much of mine to be reflective of Ulster Scot/Scots-Irish (whichever term you prefer) heritage, a bit of scattered English(perhaps Yorkshire, Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Kent) a small amount of Welsh, various European West and the big mystery will be how they break down my 25% Jewish. I am thinking that will be a split of central/eastern European and Italian maybe with a dash of North African or Levant. Most of my ancestors have been in the U.S. since colonial times and my maternal great grandparents were Russian-Jewish immigrants in the late 1800's early 1900's. I hope my dna isn't too much of a jumbled mess to get a clear picture of regions. haha I am in the February 20th time frame batch. I hope I don't get the dreaded delayed again email. The suspense is killing me.

Thanks for your input, yeah it took years of research to get my paper trail to where it's at... (most research done by other family members) and some of my work could definitely be wrong. But it's something to go off of I suppose!
I think my estimate was Feb. 13, the suspense is getting less bearable by the day eh?

01-22-2017, 09:50 AM
Interesting, but I have a feeling I will be wildly out.
So my estimates:-

South Wales 65% plus
Ormond 25 %
North West Scotland 10%

But looking forward in Febuary to be vastly corrected :P

firemonkey
01-22-2017, 11:26 AM
I am not really sure where all mine fit re living dna regions to work out %s but maybe some kind person could work out expected regional %

Banffshire 7
Ireland 6(4 Antrim 2?)
Lancashire 4
Worcestershire 3
Glasgow 2
Gloucestershire 2
Flintshire? 2
Derbyshire1
Yorkshire 1
Staffordshire 1
Shropshire 1
Warwickshire 1
Morayshire 1

A Norfolk L-M20
01-22-2017, 01:13 PM
I don't know what I expect them to be. David has already told us that there is an issue with misidentifying East Anglian as German. I am expecting them to be far closer than either 23andMe or FT-DNA FF. I made the following chart in Living DNA regional colours:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13589&d=1484412421

Orange = Lincolnshire
Brown = East Anglia
Blue = South Central England
Light Grey = unknown birthplace, or passing through London.

That covers up to 3xgreat grandparent generation.

4xgreat grandparents, I do have 61 out 64 of them named, but not all with baptisms / places of birth, although I would say that 52 of them were most likely East Anglian born, 6 are South Central England born, and 2 are Lincolnshire. 1 I haven't got a clue. That makes 81% East Anglian, 9% South Central England, 3% Lincolnshire, and 8% unknown. Using the Living DNA regions. Actually my ancestors ascribed to "South Central England", are borderline "South England".

firemonkey
01-22-2017, 02:17 PM
Ok as best as I can work it out.

Aberdeenshire 25
Central 22
Northwest 13
Ireland 13
Southwest Scotland and Ireland 13
South central 6
North Wales? 6
North or South Yorkshire 3 (Almondbury is in West Yorkshire)

sktibo
01-22-2017, 07:07 PM
Interesting, but I have a feeling I will be wildly out.
So my estimates:-

South Wales 65% plus
Ormond 25 %
North West Scotland 10%

But looking forward in Febuary to be vastly corrected :P

What is Ormond?

01-22-2017, 08:38 PM
What is Ormond?

Its one of the Irish regions on Living DNA I beleive.

https://www.livingdna.com/en-eu/irish-dna-research-project

jpb
01-22-2017, 10:14 PM
I cannot know where many of my BI ancestors came from due to them being 1600s immigrants to America. But, I know I am about 62% British Isles (30% English, 23% Scottish, 9% Irish) and 37% Continental European (33% German, 3% Dutch, 1% French). I also have 1% that is Colonial Virginian mixed race (African, English, Virginia Indian). I just ordered LivingDNA and am curious what my results will say.

chelle
01-22-2017, 11:09 PM
I cannot know where many of my BI ancestors came from due to them being 1600s immigrants to America. But, I know I am about 62% British Isles (30% English, 23% Scottish, 9% Irish) and 37% Continental European (33% German, 3% Dutch, 1% French). I also have 1% that is Colonial Virginian mixed race (African, English, Virginia Indian). I just ordered LivingDNA and am curious what my results will say.

I am in kind of the same boat with that. Here are my DNAland, FTDNA, AncestryDNA results along with my standard and speculative for 23andme

DNAland:

West Eurasian 97%
Northwest European 53%
Ashkenazi/Levantine 27% - Mediterranean Islander 17% Ashkenazi 10%
Southwestern European 10% - Southwestern European 6.4% Sardinian 3.8%
North Slavic 6.4%
North African 2.9%


FTDNA:

Western and Central Europe 50%
British Isles 20%
Eastern Europe 7%
Scandinavia 4%
Ashkenazi Diaspora 17%
North Africa 2%




AncestryDna:

Africa North < 1%
Europe West 38%
Ireland 21%
European Jewish 13%
Italy/Greece 9%
Scandinavia 6%
Great Britain 4%
Europe East 2%
Iberian Peninsula 2%
Finland/Northwest Russia 1%
Middle East 3%

23andme standard:




21.0% British & Irish
5.4% French & German
37.3% Broadly Northwestern European
21.1% Ashkenazi Jewish
0.4% Eastern European
13.6% Broadly European
0.6% West African
< 0.1% Broadly Sub-Saharan African
0.1% South Asian
0.5% Unassigned

23andme Speculative mode:


43.8% British & Irish
11.7% French & German
1.2% Scandinavian
15.8% Broadly Northwestern European
22.4% Ashkenazi Jewish
1.2% Eastern European
0.1% Iberian
0.7% Broadly Southern European
2.4% Broadly European
0.6% West African
< 0.1% Broadly Sub-Saharan African
0.1% South Asian
0.1% Unassigned

As you can see these all vary quite a bit in certain areas, so I am very curious to see how LivingDNA breaks it down. I have only gotten my parents the 23andme test. My dad's came back at 62.8% British and Irish in speculative and my mother's came back 31.5% in speculative.

Oathsworn
01-22-2017, 11:50 PM
Mines going to go along the lines of being predominantly east Midlands to Yorkshire. Smaller percentages around neighouring counties, with some East European in there and then some smaller percentages towards West of England and Wales due to my maternal line going back to Shropshire

7/8ths English, the majority of my English ancestry is Yorkshire and East Midlands/Anglia. I have a Polishh Great Grandfather so I expect that to show and my maternal line going back a few hundred years ago goes back to Shropshire, bordering Wales.

ADW_1981
01-23-2017, 04:00 PM
In anticipation of the first big batch of DNA results, I think it would be fun to compile a list of what we expect our ethnicity estimates to be, based on the where our ancestors were born. If possible, we could "translate" the birth locations of our ancestors into living DNA regions. For example, if a great grandparent was born in Glasgow, that would be one ggparent in the "Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland" category.

I'm hoping if people add to this thread we will be able to use it as a reference to get an idea as to how close to our paper trails this new DNA test gets.

Here's mine using 4th great grandparents (estimate, excluding some small ethnicities)

6x France
13x Germanic
4x Northeast Europe
8x Central England
5x South Central England or Welsh Border
1x South England
2x Lincolnshire
1x Northumbria
6x Ireland
4x Northwest Scotland
1x Orkney
4x Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland
2x Aberdeenshire
2x Unknown Scotland
4x Unknown England
1x Unknown Colonial American

20% Germanic, 12.5% Central England, 9% France, 9% Ireland, 7.8% S Central England or Welsh Border, 6.25% NE Europe, 6.25% NW Scotland, 6.25% SW Scotland/NI, 3% Lincolnshire, 3% Aberdeenshire, 1.5% Orkney, 1.5% Northumbria, 1.5% South England, 10.9% Uncertain.

I'm actually expecting representation in most areas of England and possibly Wales as well. My dad has ancestry within 5 generations from as far west as Cornwall, to north and east to Lincolnshire. My mother is likely closer to Kent, but also west into Gloucestershire and the south-centre around Berkshire.

Despite both my mtDNA lines being strongly Irish (U4b1a2 and I2), I'm not expecting Irish or Scottish ancestry. Very few, if any of my recent family names are in the far north of England, Scotland, N.Ireland, or Ireland. I'm expecting some continental ancestry via France, but that's a little more distant and it will be interesting if it gets picked up.

sktibo
01-23-2017, 06:27 PM
I'm actually expecting representation in most areas of England and possibly Wales as well. My dad has ancestry within 5 generations from as far west as Cornwall, to north and east to Lincolnshire. My mother is likely closer to Kent, but also west into Gloucestershire and the south-centre around Berkshire.

Despite both my mtDNA lines being strongly Irish (U4b1a2 and I2), I'm not expecting Irish or Scottish ancestry. Very few, if any of my recent family names are in the far north of England, Scotland, N.Ireland, or Ireland. I'm expecting some continental ancestry via France, but that's a little more distant and it will be interesting if it gets picked up.

I'm really not sure if I'm going to get a bunch of SW England or Wales. My g-grandmother was Welsh, Welsh was her first language and that of her family, but tracing her Ancestry back a couple generations and they're all in the Southwest English areas. I'm really keen to see if this test will assign more Wales or SW England, it may be able to answer one of my big genealogical questions which I can't seem to answer with the paper trail

estevard
01-24-2017, 10:37 PM
My crude estimate based on 32 g-g-g gp:

Cornwall 12.5
Northwest Scotland 18.75
South Central England 6.25
Southeast England 18.75
Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland 12.5
South Yorkshire 6.25
Europe East 25

13652

JMcB
01-25-2017, 04:25 AM
For me, one of the more attractive aspects of Living DNA's promise was their ability to break down your results into regional percentages. Although, I'm curious to see how that'll work out for someone who ancestors have been in the States for hundreds of years. Unfortunately, I can't venture any guesses because I have no idea beyond the broad outlines of saying; he was from Scotland and she was from Ireland and Granny's family were mostly from England. And that's basically the same kind of information I've been able to find in census reports, too.

Surnames have been able to give me a rough geographical idea but I don't know how much weight I can put on that. Family Finder has me as 75% British Isles, 19% Southern European and 6% Eastern European. Which sounds about right, except for the Southern European which seems about 10% points too high.

One thing I have noticed about the few early results I've seen, is that Living DNA's British Isles results seem to be coming in higher than their tester's Family Finder comparisons. Perhaps, because Family Finder seems to pick up some ancient components in their Southern European readings. Which is what some have said. If that holds true, than I may come in at about 88% British Isles. Which is closer to what I would have thought but ...... we'll see.

At any rate, I can't wait.

jdean
01-26-2017, 03:25 PM
Dad should primarily be S. Wales Border, S. Central England & Central England and Mum S. Wales, S. Wales Border & S. Central England

Be interesting to see the results but they've both got colds at the mo so don't want to bother them with cheek swabs : )

angscoire
01-31-2017, 06:33 PM
Known ancestry going back at least 6-7 generations ,and beyond on some branches, is 100% British and Irish.

Expected results :

52% Northumbria (some of this is Lowland Scottish ancestry, such as Edinburgh ; much of it is from Northumberland and Durham counties.There should be a significant Northumbria score even if it gets somewhat diluted by other regions influence ).

17% S. England, SE England and S.Central England mix (much of this ancestry comes from maternal 18th/19th century itinerant farm labourers and travellers, from Buckinghamshire to Dorset, so it is hard to guess exactly what might show up , but ought to be those regions or very close . Paternal ancestry from Northampton and London).

15% Ireland ( some of this may show up as N.Ireland).

13% Aberdeenshire , NW Scotland , SW Scotland/N. Ireland mix ( may be higher . Ancestors from Moray , Inverness , Angus , Perthshire , Aberdeenshire , likely N.Ireland ).

MacEochaidh
02-02-2017, 05:39 PM
I just ordered today, so it will be awhile. Here's my best guess:

40X North of Ireland/SW Scotland
16X French
8X Ireland


I'm 25% French Canadian, but it usually comes up as partly Iberian.

sktibo
02-02-2017, 06:33 PM
I just ordered today, so it will be awhile. Here's my best guess:

40X North of Ireland/SW Scotland
16X French
8X Ireland


I'm 25% French Canadian, but it usually comes up as partly Iberian.

Mine often has Iberian too. So far my French hasn't shown up on living DNA, but I suspect it's under the unassigned Europe category. I'll let you know if it pops up once they release the other estimates

deadly77
02-06-2017, 02:12 AM
From my paper trail, I know the birthplaces of 40 of my 64 gggg-grandparents. From breaking them down into the LivingDNA regions, I come out with:

Northumbria 28.08%
Cumbria 6.24%
South Yorkshire 12.48%
East Anglia 6.24%
Ireland 6.24%
I-M253 (likely I-L338) haplogroup ancestor (unknown) 1.56%
J1c1b2 haplogroup ancestor (unknown)1.56%
Unknown 37.44%

Outliers: I have a ggggg-grandparent born in Kent, but at less than 1%, that may not show up. My last known mtDNA ancestor and her sister both list themselves as born in Glasgow, Scotland on every census from 1881 onwards but can't find them anywhere before that. A lot of my Y-STR matches list a Scottish ancestor.

I've been pretty conservative with the unknown assignments - I could quite likely bump up Northumbria, South Yorkshire and East Anglia if I went a bit more speculative based on subsequent generation.

Ordered my kit on 25th November, testing started 4th January. Patiently waiting for results but I've been watching everyone else's coming in and it's very interesting.

23andme: 66.9% British and Irish, 9.5% French and German, 3.4% Scandinavian, 18.6% Broadly Northwestern European, 0.4% Broadly Southern European, 1.2% Broadly European.
FTDNA: 60% Western and Central Europe, 22% British Isles, 14% Scandinavian, 4% Finland and Siberia.

sktibo
02-06-2017, 04:37 AM
From my paper trail, I know the birthplaces of 40 of my 64 gggg-grandparents. From breaking them down into the LivingDNA regions, I come out with:

Northumbria 28.08%
Cumbria 6.24%
South Yorkshire 12.48%
East Anglia 6.24%
Ireland 6.24%
I-M253 (likely I-L338) haplogroup ancestor (unknown) 1.56%
J1c1b2 haplogroup ancestor (unknown)1.56%
Unknown 37.44%

Outliers: I have a ggggg-grandparent born in Kent, but at less than 1%, that may not show up. My last known mtDNA ancestor and her sister both list themselves as born in Glasgow, Scotland on every census from 1881 onwards but can't find them anywhere before that. A lot of my Y-STR matches list a Scottish ancestor.

I've been pretty conservative with the unknown assignments - I could quite likely bump up Northumbria, South Yorkshire and East Anglia if I went a bit more speculative based on subsequent generation.

Ordered my kit on 25th November, testing started 4th January. Patiently waiting for results but I've been watching everyone else's coming in and it's very interesting.

23andme: 66.9% British and Irish, 9.5% French and German, 3.4% Scandinavian, 18.6% Broadly Northwestern European, 0.4% Broadly Southern European, 1.2% Broadly European.
FTDNA: 60% Western and Central Europe, 22% British Isles, 14% Scandinavian, 4% Finland and Siberia.

Part of your estimate (28.08% Northumbria & 6.24% Cumbria) is really close to what living DNA assigned me (26.2% Northumbria and 7.2% Cumbria). If your estimates are accurate, I'd be very interested to know about your ancestors from these regions as I have no paper trail connection to either (one 4x ggparent from Edinburgh area excluded) and I am currently going through my family tree and trying to make some sense of it!

jdean
02-06-2017, 08:49 AM
I just ordered today, so it will be awhile. Here's my best guess:

40X North of Ireland/SW Scotland
16X French
8X Ireland


I'm 25% French Canadian, but it usually comes up as partly Iberian.

Spoke to them Friday and was told (by the by) they are incorporating the Irish date which will add a lot of regions to Ireland, hopefully that includes a finer break down of Northern Ireland as well.

deadly77
02-07-2017, 04:11 AM
Part of your estimate (28.08% Northumbria & 6.24% Cumbria) is really close to what living DNA assigned me (26.2% Northumbria and 7.2% Cumbria). If your estimates are accurate, I'd be very interested to know about your ancestors from these regions as I have no paper trail connection to either (one 4x ggparent from Edinburgh area excluded) and I am currently going through my family tree and trying to make some sense of it!

As I said I was really conservative on the estimate with regard to unknown - I expect those values to be minimum. If I take it to the more recent generation of my 32 ggg-grandparents (and effectively converting some unknowns to a more concrete location - I'm anticipating the majority to be correct), it shapes up more like this:

Northumbria 46.8%
Cumbria 6.24%
South Yorkshire 12.48%
East Anglia 9.36%
Ireland 6.24%
Unknown 18.72%

All of my non-Northumbrian ancestors moved to Northumbria (as defined by Living DNA map) between 1881 and 1897. They mostly worked in coal mining and shipbuilding, with some shoemakers, stonemasons, mariners and glassmakers.

The Cumbrians were from Longcroft Bowness and Farlam with surnames Mitchinson, Waugh, Ruddick, Peale, Bell (although some of these I just have one person).
The Northumbrians were largely from South Tyneside (South Shields, Jarrow, Gateshead) and Newcastle Upon Tyne with a smattering of other parts of current day Northumberland and County Durham. Surnames of gggg-grandparents from that region include Hedley, Ridley, Muires, Cunningham, Rutter, Clint, Swallow, Giles, Crooks, Robson, Bell, Hodgson, Brownlee, Hills, Richardson, Watson, Walker. A lot more on other branches as well.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for with interest in those ancestors.

sktibo
02-07-2017, 04:20 AM
As I said I was really conservative on the estimate with regard to unknown - I expect those values to be minimum. If I take it to the more recent generation of my 32 ggg-grandparents (and effectively converting some unknowns to a more concrete location - I'm anticipating the majority to be correct), it shapes up more like this:

Northumbria 46.8%
Cumbria 6.24%
South Yorkshire 12.48%
East Anglia 9.36%
Ireland 6.24%
Unknown 18.72%

All of my non-Northumbrian ancestors moved to Northumbria (as defined by Living DNA map) between 1881 and 1897. They mostly worked in coal mining and shipbuilding, with some shoemakers, stonemasons, mariners and glassmakers.

The Cumbrians were from Longcroft Bowness and Farlam with surnames Mitchinson, Waugh, Ruddick, Peale, Bell (although some of these I just have one person).
The Northumbrians were largely from South Tyneside (South Shields, Jarrow, Gateshead) and Newcastle Upon Tyne with a smattering of other parts of current day Northumberland and County Durham. Surnames of gggg-grandparents from that region include Hedley, Ridley, Muires, Cunningham, Rutter, Clint, Swallow, Giles, Crooks, Robson, Bell, Hodgson, Brownlee, Hills, Richardson, Watson, Walker. A lot more on other branches as well.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for with interest in those ancestors.

Thank you, any and all information is great. I'm not sure if it's a screwy category or if I've got something ancient going on in the Northumbria region. My family ancestry is very well documented and I've got next to nothing in that region, so if it turns out you have all that documented Northumbrian, and you end up getting a low result, or an extraordinarily high result, it may indicate something is up.

MacEochaidh
02-07-2017, 03:25 PM
Spoke to them Friday and was told (by the by) they are incorporating the Irish date which will add a lot of regions to Ireland, hopefully that includes a finer break down of Northern Ireland as well.

This would be wonderful. I'd expect County Donegal to show up big, if it's not under north of Ireland.

avalon
02-07-2017, 07:40 PM
Thank you, any and all information is great. I'm not sure if it's a screwy category or if I've got something ancient going on in the Northumbria region. My family ancestry is very well documented and I've got next to nothing in that region, so if it turns out you have all that documented Northumbrian, and you end up getting a low result, or an extraordinarily high result, it may indicate something is up.

Hi Sktibo,

I wonder if your Northumbria issue is again down to the lack of Scottish samples in the POBI/LivingDNA dataset. I think you said you had ancestry in Stirling but if LivingDNA is lacking samples from the Stirling area then their test may well assign you to the nearest genetic neighbour. It' s worth pointing out that the Northumbria region extends as far north as Fife which is close to Stirling so I wouldn't be surprised to see some overlap between different Living DNA regions, particularly in places like Sterling which is close to 4 different regions.

Also, I'm not certain but I think that historically Stirling was sort of on the border between the Gaelic speaking highlands and Scots speaking Lowlands, so this may be another factor that comes into play if we look at how history might explain the genetics.

sktibo
02-07-2017, 08:58 PM
Hi Sktibo,

I wonder if your Northumbria issue is again down to the lack of Scottish samples in the POBI/LivingDNA dataset. I think you said you had ancestry in Stirling but if LivingDNA is lacking samples from the Stirling area then their test may well assign you to the nearest genetic neighbour. It' s worth pointing out that the Northumbria region extends as far north as Fife which is close to Stirling so I wouldn't be surprised to see some overlap between different Living DNA regions, particularly in places like Sterling which is close to 4 different regions.

Also, I'm not certain but I think that historically Stirling was sort of on the border between the Gaelic speaking highlands and Scots speaking Lowlands, so this may be another factor that comes into play if we look at how history might explain the genetics.

It could well be, IIRC Northumbria has the most samples (about 144) after the large red cluster (1000) so it wouldn't surprise me if my results were pulled in that direction. While I can't map it out definitely, three of four of my unidentified Stirling 4th ggparents likely came from Perthshire (they have Gaelic or "Pictish" surnames). The other four did and there's hints that these did too but I have no clear documentation.

chelle
02-07-2017, 11:43 PM
I am so excited. This past couple of weeks I have had a few breakthroughs with a few of my family lines. Turns out I have some Quaker ancestors. I am so grateful they kept such impeccable records. Today I just discovered a marriage record for one of them in Wiltshire. No clue if that would be reflected on my Living DNA results or not, but anytime I find an actual link to the country my family came from and not just hearsay I am ecstatic. I had to share with people who understand my excitement. hahaha

sktibo
02-08-2017, 12:54 AM
I am so excited. This past couple of weeks I have had a few breakthroughs with a few of my family lines. Turns out I have some Quaker ancestors. I am so grateful they kept such impeccable records. Today I just discovered a marriage record for one of them in Wiltshire. No clue if that would be reflected on my Living DNA results or not, but anytime I find an actual link to the country my family came from and not just hearsay I am ecstatic. I had to share with people who understand my excitement. hahaha

Sounds like a bit of South England

chelle
02-08-2017, 02:22 AM
I have so many lines that surnames are clues as to their country of origin, but few that I have actually linked to those places definitively. Off the top of my head I have found paperwork links to Argyll, Yorkshire, Kent, Northern Ireland and now Wiltshire. I really hope my results come in before February 20th.

sktibo
02-08-2017, 04:35 AM
I have so many lines that surnames are clues as to their country of origin, but few that I have actually linked to those places definitively. Off the top of my head I have found paperwork links to Argyll, Yorkshire, Kent, Northern Ireland and now Wiltshire. I really hope my results come in before February 20th.

Maybe I'm just incredibly uncool (likely) but man I think this DNA stuff is exciting. I was checking my living DNA every day until I got my results, and now that I have them I'm on the edge of my seat for when they release the "Complete" (similar to 23andme's "Speculative") mode. Maybe you'll land a percentage in the highly sought after Northwestern Scotland category?

chelle
02-08-2017, 06:35 AM
Maybe I'm just incredibly uncool (likely) but man I think this DNA stuff is exciting. I was checking my living DNA every day until I got my results, and now that I have them I'm on the edge of my seat for when they release the "Complete" (similar to 23andme's "Speculative") mode. Maybe you'll land a percentage in the highly sought after Northwestern Scotland category?

Well then I am in your uncool cool club too. hahaha I find it like a treasure hunt and am downright giddy when I find a new clue or dna results. I have been checking their site like three times a day hoping to find results posted early. I cannot wait until the Irish regions are broken down more too. I think I will score highest in the Scotland/Northern Ireland area, but we shall see.....eventually. ha I can't remember, did you get your results early or on schedule?

sktibo
02-08-2017, 07:19 AM
Well then I am in your uncool cool club too. hahaha I find it like a treasure hunt and am downright giddy when I find a new clue or dna results. I have been checking their site like three times a day hoping to find results posted early. I cannot wait until the Irish regions are broken down more too. I think I will score highest in the Scotland/Northern Ireland area, but we shall see.....eventually. ha I can't remember, did you get your results early or on schedule?

Early. My estimate was Feb 13, almost 2 weeks early. I got lucky. I'll be very curious to see if your NW Scot comes out as such or if it gets turned into Aberdeenshire.. at least that's what I suspect happened in my case! Glad to see another member of the uncool club

chelle
02-08-2017, 09:13 AM
Early. My estimate was Feb 13, almost 2 weeks early. I got lucky. I'll be very curious to see if your NW Scot comes out as such or if it gets turned into Aberdeenshire.. at least that's what I suspect happened in my case! Glad to see another member of the uncool club

I am also curious to see how much how my British vs Western Europe estimates turn out, since those varied so much between Ancestry dna and 23andme. I am wondering how much of the western Europe estimate was from English ancestors as opposed to French, German, Belgium, etc. I know I have ancestry way back from those areas too, but I just always thought I was more recently of British stock.

sktibo
02-08-2017, 09:32 AM
I am also curious to see how much how my British vs Western Europe estimates turn out, since those varied so much between Ancestry dna and 23andme. I am wondering how much of the western Europe estimate was from English ancestors as opposed to French, German, Belgium, etc. I know I have ancestry way back from those areas too, but I just always thought I was more recently of British stock.

Interesting... My Ancestry and 23 were fairly consistent. What were your 23 and Ancestry results?

chelle
02-08-2017, 09:52 AM
Interesting... My Ancestry and 23 were fairly consistent. What were your 23 and Ancestry results?


23andme gives me

British & Irish
44.8%
French & German
11.8%
Scandinavian
1.2%
Broadly Northwestern European
15.0%


Ancestry gives me

38% Europe West
21% Ireland
6% Scandinavia
4% Great Britain
1% Finland/Northwest Russia

Of course they also break down my Jewish ancestry differently too. 23andme shows about 22% and Ancestry changes part of that to Italian, so who knows...?

sktibo
02-08-2017, 08:21 PM
23andme gives me

British & Irish
44.8%
French & German
11.8%
Scandinavian
1.2%
Broadly Northwestern European
15.0%


Ancestry gives me

38% Europe West
21% Ireland
6% Scandinavia
4% Great Britain
1% Finland/Northwest Russia

Of course they also break down my Jewish ancestry differently too. 23andme shows about 22% and Ancestry changes part of that to Italian, so who knows...?

Damn. That's quite different. Hopefully living DNA will decode it.

chelle
02-09-2017, 12:09 AM
Damn. That's quite different. Hopefully living DNA will decode it.

RIGHT?!? :lol:

chelle
02-10-2017, 06:08 AM
So I am sitting here with a nice hot cup of pg tips comparing my paper trail to the regions on my results and having a good laugh. I am looking at google maps to see if my ancestors from South Elmsall fall under North or South Yorkshire. Well if you look at a map for each it seems to fall between borders with no claim from either. Good thing I got percentage from both to be on the safe side. ;)



Edit* after looking up West Yorkshire on google maps to see if it somehow fell under a different category, that seems to be the case. Still funny to me though.

chelle
02-10-2017, 11:28 PM
Not an exact way to determine where a certain line came from, but I like to use this site to get an idea of ways to narrow down searches or to cross reference to see if a potential birthplace makes sense.

http://named.publicprofiler.org/

sktibo
02-10-2017, 11:38 PM
Not an exact way to determine where a certain line came from, but I like to use this site to get an idea of ways to narrow down searches or to cross reference to see if a potential birthplace makes sense.

http://named.publicprofiler.org/

Seems to line up on a regular basis with a lot of mine. Thanks for sharing this

JMcB
02-11-2017, 12:52 AM
Not an exact way to determine where a certain line came from, but I like to use this site to get an idea of ways to narrow down searches or to cross reference to see if a potential birthplace makes sense.

http://named.publicprofiler.org/

Coincidentally, I've been using that same website to try and get an idea of where some of my ancestors came from. When your paper trail ends where the Atlantic Ocean begins, surnames are about all you've got.

Now it's interesting to compare them to my Living DNA results.

Here's a few for example:

13964

13965

13966

13967

As you said, it's not ideal but when you don't have anything, it's better than nothing.

chelle
02-11-2017, 06:02 AM
Glad to share and to know that I am not the only one to find it useful. Some names it really helps narrow it down, sadly others have wayyyy too many hot spots.

Adrian Stevenson
02-11-2017, 11:37 AM
Here is mine and I find the results are accurate. Lots of Stevensons in Scotland, which I already knew about, but it zooms in well on our family heartland of Nottinghamshire, which marries up with my paper trail.

Still awaiting my Living DNA results which are not due until April.

Cheers, Ade.

A Norfolk L-M20
02-11-2017, 11:52 AM
Here is mine and I find the results are accurate. Lots of Stevensons in Scotland, which I already knew about, but it zooms in well on our family heartland of Nottinghamshire, which marries up with my paper trail.

Still awaiting my Living DNA results which are not due until April.

Cheers, Ade.

It doesn't work very well at all with my earliest recorded ancestral home of my surname - perhaps they've all moved away. However, on one of my other ancestral surnames, one associated with an Anglo-Danish origin (Tofi-son-of-Hilda), it works perfect:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13972&d=1486813929

JMcB
02-11-2017, 06:41 PM
Glad to share and to know that I am not the only one to find it useful. Some names it really helps narrow it down, sadly others have wayyyy too many hot spots.


Yes, I have some surnames whose hotspots are too dispersed to be of any help. On the other hand, with Living DNA's results and a little help even those can be of interest. When my Great Grandfather Thomas R Johnson died in 1915, his obituary mentioned that he was of English descent and that his ancestors had come to America with William Penn. So there's a "fairly good" chance that my Johnson ancestors were originally Quakers, as were many of the followers of William Penn.

Here is the surname map for the name Johnson

13985

If you notice there's a hotspot around the area of Lancashire & Cumbria.

Now here are two maps showing where the Quakers were originally concentrated.

13986

13987

Again, there seems to be a concentration around the area of Lancashire & Cumbria.

And this is my Living DNA map

13988

All of the above maps do seem to align and point in one direction. So it's possible that my Johnson ancestors originally came from the area bordering Lancashire & Cumbria. While it's certainly not proof positive, it may be a leg to stand on and for now, it's all I've got. Nevertheless, it does seem to show that even with a common name, these surname maps can come in handy.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
02-11-2017, 07:50 PM
The problem with my surname is that it has variations, so what it is now might not be what it was a few centuries ago, Powell, Howell, Howells.
Howells is mostly centred around Carmarthenshire and South Breconshire though there is spread into the Welsh Borders.
What is unusual about Howell is that as well as Wales it has a hotspot in Norfolk - so what would a "Welsh" surname be doing in Eastern England in such concentration? I suspect it may relate to the Bretton presence there after the Norman conquest, which could also have contributed to it's presence or variations in the Welsh Borders. John

13990

Robert McBride
02-11-2017, 07:51 PM
Based on my paper trail which goes back to Gx2 Grandparents on all lines and 27 G x3 grandparents I am roughly

40% Ulster Irish (Armagh, Down, Louth border area and Kilkeel)
25% Berkshire , England
12.5% Scot
9% Ulster Scot
6% South Wales
6% Norway

My sample was received by Living dna last week.

On the new Ancestrydna beta communities I am

Ulster Irish (Likely) 60% certain
When I click on the drop down menu I get Irish in Ulster east (possible) 40% certain
Scots (possible) 20% certain
Southern English (possible) 20% certain

A Norfolk L-M20
02-11-2017, 08:01 PM
The problem with my surname is that it has variations, so what it is now might not be what it was a few centuries ago, Powell, Howell, Howells.
Howells is mostly centred around Carmarthenshire and South Breconshire though there is spread into the Welsh Borders.
What is unusual about Howell is that as well as Wales it has a hotspot in Norfolk - so what would a "Welsh" surname be doing in Eastern England in such concentration? I suspect it may relate to the Bretton presence there after the Norman conquest, which could also have contributed to it's presence or variations in the Welsh Borders. John

13990

Absolutely. My surname clusters strongest in Kent, and Surrey - I've known that for thirty years. However, there was a secondary cluster around Oxfordshire / Berkshire - that I descend from. However, it's died away! Charlie Brooker, the journalist I understand is from Reading - he might be a surname cousin.

The Brooker surname project on FT-DNA is dreadfully under populated. Just two of us - and the other is an R1 from Kent or London. I think that I could be waiting sometime.

Saetro
02-11-2017, 08:23 PM
Not an exact way to determine where a certain line came from, but I like to use this site to get an idea of ways to narrow down searches or to cross reference to see if a potential birthplace makes sense.

http://named.publicprofiler.org/

I tried out some names I have researched thoroughly in the past, and this database gave me results that are strange.
Unless the data is very recent, with people having moved from their ancestral areas.
Wonderful presentation, but what database are they using and when does it represent?

By contrast, http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/ offers two time points: 1881 and 1990s.
First, I know when they are.
Second, although 1881 was after much of the industrial revolution, I have been surprised how many of most surname were still in the county, so it is more accurate.

There is a CD - available from Guild of One Name Studies, if I recall correctly - by Archer, with 1881 data grouped by county, or even down to poor law union.
It has been very helpful to me.

MacUalraig
02-11-2017, 08:32 PM
Yes I have the Surname Atlas, one of the best genealogical tools ever made. You can get it from Archer Software. Only shame was the lack of sub-county grouping in Scotland.

Solothurn
02-12-2017, 12:36 AM
This is another surname site, not sure how up to date it is though :(

http://surname.sofeminine.co.uk/w/surnames/most-common-surnames-in-great-britain.html

Saetro
02-12-2017, 01:04 AM
Yes I have the Surname Atlas, one of the best genealogical tools ever made. You can get it from Archer Software. Only shame was the lack of sub-county grouping in Scotland.

Sub-county grouping is available in latest version, announced in 2015. http://one-name.org/updated-version-of-surname-atlas/
The announcement then mentions an update deal for existing users.

chelle
02-12-2017, 01:59 AM
I tried out some names I have researched thoroughly in the past, and this database gave me results that are strange.
Unless the data is very recent, with people having moved from their ancestral areas.
Wonderful presentation, but what database are they using and when does it represent?

By contrast, http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/ offers two time points: 1881 and 1990s.
First, I know when they are.
Second, although 1881 was after much of the industrial revolution, I have been surprised how many of most surname were still in the county, so it is more accurate.

There is a CD - available from Guild of One Name Studies, if I recall correctly - by Archer, with 1881 data grouped by county, or even down to poor law union.
It has been very helpful to me.

If you scroll to the bottom of the page, there are a few links that tell you more about how they came by their database. Here is an article from one of them:


http://www.esrc.ac.uk/news-events-and-publications/news/news-items/mapping-your-ancestral-valentines/

MacUalraig
02-12-2017, 08:57 AM
Sub-county grouping is available in latest version, announced in 2015. http://one-name.org/updated-version-of-surname-atlas/
The announcement then mentions an update deal for existing users.

Thanks, I was sure I had read that blurb before but obviously not carefully enough!

"Version V1.20 has added more detailed mapping of surnames & forenames in Scotland, down to district level (previously to county level only); "

Solothurn
02-14-2017, 08:03 AM
I caved in and ordered, shh don't tell the mrs :behindsofa:

32 Grandparents:

Northumbria 40.625%
Northwest England 40.625%
North Wales 6.25%
Central England 3.125%
North Yorkshire 3.125%
Unknown 6.25%

chelle
02-14-2017, 09:00 AM
I caved in and ordered, shh don't tell the mrs :behindsofa:

32 Grandparents:

Northumbria 40.625%
Northwest England 40.625%
North Wales 6.25%
Central England 3.125%
North Yorkshire 3.125%
Unknown 6.25%

Welcome to the dark side. ;)

Solothurn
02-15-2017, 05:42 PM
That is a great link :)

Even shows my 'daughtered' out lines where the surname is not that common!

I put in a 103/111 (different surname) match in and we came out as within a 20 mile hotspot!


Not an exact way to determine where a certain line came from, but I like to use this site to get an idea of ways to narrow down searches or to cross reference to see if a potential birthplace makes sense.

http://named.publicprofiler.org/

AnnieD
02-16-2017, 04:54 AM
I just discovered a British genealogy blogger and author online who was invited to test early with Living DNA. Her results correlated quite well with some Welsh and East Anglia ancestry, interesting in its east vs. west genetic divide in Britain.

http://www.emmajolly.co.uk/blog/2017/01/my-dna-living-dna-results/

If interested in reviewing her results as a bonafide British genealogist, I've copied her summary below. Her blog goes on to include many interesting regional details.

Map showing the distribution of my DNA.


"Professor Myers told me that while the team is able to quite precisely identify regional contributions within the British Isles, the genetic differences they are identifying are also very subtle. Most people’s ancestors are likely to come from a more geographically diverse set of locations in the 6-10 generation period than are exactly traceable using genealogies. In general, it’s harder to precisely pin down contributions that make up only very small amounts of DNA geographically, because they give less data for analysis.

"On first glance, my results make sense compared with my known ancestry. They indicate that I have 90.7% British Isles DNA, which matches roughly with results from other autosomal tests.

"In comparison, my Ancestry (http://www.ancestry.co.uk/) test indicated 85% Great Britain, Family Tree DNA (https://www.familytreedna.com/) suggests 72% British Isles, while DNA Land (https://dna.land/) has me as 76% Northwest European (which covers Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland; Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian in Orkney Islands).
Within the Living DNA’s 90.7% British Isle results, my genetic breakdown is as follows:





South Central England 18.2%



Central England 14.3%



South Wales Border 9.8%



North Wales 9%



South Wales 7.6%



Northumbria 6%



Cornwall 4.7%



East Anglia 4.4%



Devon 3.6%



Northwest England 3.2%



Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland 2.6%



Cumbria 2.6%



Orkney 1.6%



Aberdeenshire 1.1%



British Isles (unassigned) 1.8%


"As I have recently been learning Welsh in order to help with family history research (as well as visits to Wales), I was pleased that, according to these results, the Welsh contributions adding up to 26.4% indicate that I am 1/4 Welsh. In these results, the “Welsh borders” do also include some English regions bordering Wales (such as Shropshire where I have known ancestors). However, Professor Myers clarified that usually, Welsh ancestry is not mistaken for other places. 5/32 of my 3xgreat grandparents were born in Wales. Others may have had Welsh ancestry which has been picked up autosomally."

Loderingo
02-18-2017, 06:32 PM
I ordered 2 tests today for my father and mother.

On my father's side, his mother's family were all Welsh speakers from southern Wales. His father's side were mainly from Somerset with lines going to Devon, London, Wiltshire and Sweden. I would be very very surprised indeed if on this kit we got anything from Northern England, Scotland Or Ireland.

On my mother's side, it is a different story. On her father's side there are 4 lines going to Lincolnshire, Wiltshire, Somerset and Bristol. Her mother's family all came from London. I have managed to trace a few lines out of London to Herts, Norfolk and Bristol but most of them are stuck in London. We may possibly have Irish and German lines. Nothing would really surprise me here.

Ithy
02-18-2017, 08:10 PM
16 great-great-great-grandparents are from Sweden, 15 are from the Philippines, and 1 from Spain.

Sweden:
Kalmar 2
Blekinge 4
Kronoberg 7
Jönköping 3

Philippines:
Metro Manila 2
Central Luzon 4
Ilocos 4
Central Visayas 3
Northern Mindanao 2

Spain:
Catalonia 1

Calas
02-20-2017, 12:26 AM
Of the two surname websites mentioned & apologise if missed one. But:

http://surname.sofeminine.co.uk/w/surnames/most-common-surnames-in-great-britain.html - is, if not older, in a way less accurate. I tried some surnames that you don't often find outside of Scotland and if they didn't register then they were showing up in places that are more due to Scottish migration than anything.

http://named.publicprofiler.org/ - this one is better in the sense that yes it catches the Scottish quite well.


But on the reverse, the older website works better in the sense of accuracy. I mean I tried some names that were only at the southwestern tip of England in the 1700s. Still pretty much where they should be or bordering counties.

The newer website seemed, instead, to have preferred an erroneous Yorkshire spelling for one those SW English names which is a very old place-name in Devonshire.



Then there was some oddballs. Like a rather old Scottish name in Devonshire on the first surname searching website and no Scottish [and yes it picks up Scottish]. That got a definite "hello, what's this?" response. You see the name was an old predominant Scottish clan. It certainly perked my interest as for why it'd be in Devonshire.



My point?

Chelle mentioned it already but these sorts of websites are good for a basis. Don't think they're mind-blowingly accurate. You need to do research.

Calas
02-20-2017, 01:11 AM
I'll bite.

As I said to my own results.
Paternal
60% Highland Scot/Irish
30% generic mid to southern English
10% Welsh

Maternal
40% Welsh [30% Northern, 10% southern]
20% generic southern English
40% Scottish


Now that makes me what 50% Scottish, 25% generic English, and 25% Welsh? There's a bit of Irish but most of that "Irish" actually has UK root in either English or Scottish origins. If I went through with a fine-toothed comb it'd be a bit different but comparable. The Scottish wouldn't change it's the Welsh & English that would.


Now, most of the Scottish are northerners. If you counted ancestors northern Scots would outnumber southern Scots something ridiculous like 30 or was it 40 to 1. I counted it once. Seems extensive? Most of my ancestry goes back to the 14th century, I just say 16th as that's the most accurately researched. Most of those northerners never experienced the Highland Clearances. I mentioned elsewhere relatives own the property that has been in the family, in the Highlands, since the 16th century. Northern - Strathpeffer is the cutoff; southern - anything below Perth (the city).

Most of my English ancestry is southern broaching into mid-country. By majority, we're a western English group. That southwestern tip, Welsh borders with somewhere between Birmingham & Leicester serving as the invisible boundary line. Yes, yes I know I mentioned Londoners in what-did-your-3rd-great-grandparents-do post. Only one was actual eastern English ancestry. One, as mentioned, was from old Leicestershire ancestry; another was Welsh ancestry [grandparents]. And the third his mother's parents were from Cornwall.

My Welsh-born ancestors are central, western and northern leaning. Some southern [10% on mum's side vs 30% northern/northwestern] and dad's 10% is western-centralised.


What living DNA gave me
SW Scotland & Northern Ireland - 18.9%
Cumbria - 16.2%
Northwest Scotland - 10.5%
North Wales- 7.8%
Northumbria - 6.2%
Central England - 6.1
Cornwall - 3.9%
Aberdeenshire - 3.2%
South Wales Border - 1.8%
South Wales - 1.2%


If this site was using evenly distributed & accurate populations to reference I'd actually expect something like this.

Northwest Scottish - 20.2%
Aberdeenshire - 15.2%
Central England - 9.8%
North Wales - 8.4%
South Wales Borders - 7.7%
Cornwall - 6.7%
South Central England - 5.6%
Cumbria - 3.8%
South Wales - 2.4%
SW Scotland & Northern Ireland - 2.1%

Unassigned - 2-4%


Quite different.

estevard
02-25-2017, 03:52 AM
My crude estimate based on 32 g-g-g gp:

Cornwall 12.5
Northwest Scotland 18.75
South Central England 6.25
Southeast England 18.75
Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland 12.5
South Yorkshire 6.25
Europe East 25

13652
Doubtless Living DNA has been waiting anxiously for my verdict.

So here it is.

Motherline:
U4b3 (Geno 2 said U4b3) Correct

Fatherline:
DF13 (Geno 2 said [DF13/]L513; FTDNA says [L513/.../]S5982) Correct, as far it goes

Regional:
Great Britain and Ireland: 76.4%
Europe (East): 15.3%
Europe (North and West): 7.2%
Asia (South): 1.1%

On nationality of recent ancestors I am 75% British Isles and 25% Latvian so this looks sound.

Subregional:
While waiting, I posted a crude estimate based on 32 g-g-g-gp using three hairy assumptions:
(1) parity: each ancestor would contribute evenly
(2) purity: each ancestor was archetypical
(3) probity: the paperwork was parentally precise.

Crude estimate versus Living DNA

14211

14212

I was not altogether surprised to find unexpected subregional components. The Southeastern English was close to spot on, the Cornish was higher than expected and the Scottish (even allowing neighbours) considerably lower. Given further refinement is in the offing, I won't quibble.

My Latvian ancestry was probably from Baltic Germans and so the 15.3% Baltic, 6.0% Scandinavia and 1.2% Germanic seems reasonable for the non-British Isles European.

The results were available at least a week ahead of schedule and to add icing to the cake, they have thrown in a little bit of intrigue: they have placed the 1.1% Asia (South) on the Indian subcontinent. I hope it is real!

Verdict: impressed.

sktibo
02-25-2017, 04:04 AM
Doubtless Living DNA has been waiting anxiously for my verdict.

So here it is.

Motherline:
U4b3 (Geno 2 said U4b3) Correct

Fatherline:
DF13 (Geno 2 said [DF13/]L513; FTDNA says [L513/.../]S5982) Correct, as far it goes

Regional:
Great Britain and Ireland: 76.4%
Europe (East): 15.3%
Europe (North and West): 7.2%
Asia (South): 1.1%

On nationality of recent ancestors I am 75% British Isles and 25% Latvian so this looks sound.

Subregional:
While waiting, I posted a crude estimate based on 32 g-g-g-gp using three hairy assumptions:
(1) parity: each ancestor would contribute evenly
(2) purity: each ancestor was archetypical
(3) probity: the paperwork was parentally precise.

Crude estimate versus Living DNA

14211

14212

I was not altogether surprised to find unexpected subregional components. The Southeastern English was close to spot on, the Cornish was higher than expected and the Scottish (even allowing neighbours) considerably lower. Given further refinement is in the offing, I won't quibble.

My Latvian ancestry was probably from Baltic Germans and so the 15.3% Baltic, 6.0% Scandinavia and 1.2% Germanic seems reasonable for the non-British Isles European.

The results were available at least a week ahead of schedule and to add icing to the cake, they have thrown in a little bit of intrigue: they have placed the 1.1% Asia (South) on the Indian subcontinent. I hope it is real!

Verdict: impressed.

Great results, thanks for sharing! Underestimated Scottish seems to be a common theme

wombatofthenorth
03-18-2017, 06:45 PM
My Latvian ancestry was probably from Baltic Germans and so the 15.3% Baltic, 6.0% Scandinavia and 1.2% Germanic seems reasonable for the non-British Isles European.



Did it get specifically labelled Baltic or just Northeast European? (although if your Latvian is mostly Baltic German maybe it would be expected not have come out specifically Baltic, anyway just wondering since some were inquiring if anyone is actually getting Baltic or Mordovian and such specifically listed).

wombatofthenorth
03-18-2017, 06:47 PM
We expect 0% for everything since we haven't tested hah, but if my mom were to test (don't really have the money to toss at something I'm not sure is any better than what we've already done and with some special Y and mtDNA tests still desired) we'd expect:

maybe 7.8125% (to give a rough estimate :) ) German, 3.125% mix of Scottish/English and who knows what else but probably mostly German and possibly more of the what else than the Scottish/English, 1.5625% probably Polish, 3.125% possibly mixed Dutch and South Pacific and a trace of Latvian, 9.375% greater Jelgava region Latvian, 25% Valmiera region Latvian, as much as 50% Nereta region Latvian (although one out of wedlock and some ties to this one family with crazy rumors opens a slight chance to maybe 3.125% French and South Pacific and then the Dutch and South Pacific plus a trace of Latvian becomes mixed Dutch and Latvian instead).
So that would be around 83%-87% deeply ethnic Latvian for centuries. Would be interesting to see what would turn up regarding their specific Baltic component.

Aquilifer
03-18-2017, 09:28 PM
I haven't bought a kit yet, in theory I should score 100% South Italy but I know that likely wouldn't be the case. I wager I'd score – using their labels – some amounts of:

-Aegean (either due to genetic similarity between southern Italy and Greece or due to possible historic Greek input; sort of like how their algos have a hard time telling the difference between German and East Anglian)
-Armenia/Cyprus and Near East (ancient markers)
-Tuscany and North Italy (based on a couple surnames in my family tree)

estevard
03-18-2017, 10:48 PM
Did it get specifically labelled Baltic or just Northeast European?

Specifically 15.3% Baltics.

14607

My maternal grandmother was Latvian but she died when I was a child and in the absence of firm evidence I have assumed she was primarily Baltic German: (1) she was Lutheran; (2) her family name was LINDE; (3) she spoke Latvian, Russian, German, French and passable English; (4) she was a refugee from the Bolsheviks. Not solid, I admit, but suggestive.

Drifting off topic (sorry) -- I do have an AncestryDNA/GEDmatch match (20.7 cM) with someone with the right family name but unfortunately the match is a non-responder and I don't have the money to send my hired goons intercontinental to find out what the match could tell me about the family background.

jonathanmcg1990
03-19-2017, 11:47 PM
It's normally wife spends money on things behind the husband's back

wombatofthenorth
03-21-2017, 01:37 AM
Specifically 15.3% Baltics.


Interesting.



My maternal grandmother was Latvian but she died when I was a child and in the absence of firm evidence I have assumed she was primarily Baltic German: (1) she was Lutheran; (2) her family name was LINDE; (3) she spoke Latvian, Russian, German, French and passable English; (4) she was a refugee from the Bolsheviks. Not solid, I admit, but suggestive.


(1) means nothing at all, almost all ethnic Latvians are Lutherans too

(2) also means nothing as ethnic Latvians have a total mix of surnames, most didn't get them until 1826 or 1834 (even 1861 in the far eastern regions) and some were assigned them and didn't even get to pick; lots of ethnic Latvians have German, Polish or Scandinavian type surnames and yet absolutely can't use it to read anything into their origin whatsoever (Russian type surnames often to do hint they are actually Russian though, but even a few ethnic Latvians have Russian-type surnames as some were forced drafted and picked up surnames while at the time of naming inside Russia and others got free land and then returned, much more often though Russian-type surnames do mean ethnically Russian instead of Latvian though, but German, Scandinavian, Polish gives absolutely no hints at all); one big hint is if you can trace the surname back prior to 1826/1834 in which case it's much more likely they are Baltic German (or non-serf class Polish/Scandinavian/Scottish etc.) although there were very small numbers of free Latvians (they were held down as serfs until 1826/1834/1861) who had surnames early on and a few even managed to appear in the German sections of church books (many church books also segregated people into being German or not German, although some did mix everyone together, a few areas still kept segregated records into late 1800s) although sometimes they are listed as freed Latvians so you can still tell and there are various other hints; sometimes first names are almost a better hint than surnames as the Baltic Germans all tended to have tons of first names (Carl Friederich Wilhelm Gustav Baumann type stuff; although there was a short period when some Latvians also did that since German was associated with high status) and very German sounding ones and the church books often spelled them differently and didn't stick in extra 'h' and stuff so like "Peter" vs. "Pehter" (but you have to be careful as conventions changed and sometimes the more fully German spellings were used for Latvians in some places at some times and very rarely a more Latvian type spelling used for Baltic Germans.

(3) that might be a bit more unusual for a Latvian to have spoken so many languages back then (although certainly there were some who spoke all of those) and more common for Baltic Germans (one of my grandparents spoke Latvian and German (plus eventually English once in America) and she was Latvian plus a bit Baltic German and the others spoke just Latvian (plus eventually English once in America) with maybe a touch of German for one), many Latvians only spoke Latvian and next most common would've been Latvian and German (although once you got into the 1950s and 60s then it would've been different and Latvian plus Russian would've been the very common combo and then with some speaking even more especially the more and more towards today you get and with the youngest set of today I almost wonder if English hasn't taken over the first of the extra languages in addition to Latvian)

(4) also pretty much meaningless, tons of ethnic Latvians were in huge troubles with Bolsheviks too (and this accounted for the smaller, early period of flight from Latvia to the U.S. and elsewhere in the earlyish 1900s) and then, of course, near the end of WII when Stalin came in, more than a third of all ethnic Latvians were in trouble with the U.S.S.R., it wasn't at all just the Baltic Germans who were, in fact, more than 1/3 of the population of Latvia was lost (mostly fled, but many shipped to Siberia or killed on the spot or shipped to Urals or Siberia to be killed) within a couple years or so at the end of WWII (my grandparents all fled Latvia literally in the middle of the night) and most who fled then ended up in DP camps in Germany before eventually being sponsored almost entirely to either U.S., U.K., Canada, New Zealand or Australia (a few ended up directly in Scandinavia instead)



Drifting off topic (sorry) -- I do have an AncestryDNA/GEDmatch match (20.7 cM) with someone with the right family name but unfortunately the match is a non-responder and I don't have the money to send my hired goons intercontinental to find out what the match could tell me about the family background.

too bad about the non response

Speaking of your Linde surname, my mom just got an FTDNA match to a Linde, they seem to be just about or so totally Scandinavian though.

At this point in time with you being the only results we've seen getting a Baltic score it's hard to say how the categories work. Maybe in time it can be figured out whether Baltic Germans score it heavily or barely at all.

(also sometimes people are not as Baltic German as they thought, my mom's mom's mom was Baltic German so we thought maybe nearing 25% Baltic German for my mom but then we just had a genealogy break through a couple months ago and discovered that just one generation back it split 50:50 so the Baltic German was already down to 12.5% (and then it turns out some is shocking ultimately Scottish/English (Berklai it seems from Barclay/Berkeley) and less shocking maybe Polish or Slovakian) and it could be you are maybe also around a 50:50 split and maybe the Baltic on this test is all Latvian and the other 10% is the Baltic German)

estevard
03-21-2017, 10:31 PM
...

(also sometimes people are not as Baltic German as they thought, my mom's mom's mom was Baltic German so we thought maybe nearing 25% Baltic German for my mom but then we just had a genealogy break through a couple months ago and discovered that just one generation back it split 50:50 so the Baltic German was already down to 12.5% (and then it turns out some is shocking ultimately Scottish/English (Berklai it seems from Barclay/Berkeley) and less shocking maybe Polish or Slovakian) and it could be you are maybe also around a 50:50 split and maybe the Baltic on this test is all Latvian and the other 10% is the Baltic German)

Many thanks for the detailed response. It is much appreciated.

Indeed it is probable that if the background is Baltic German it would be partial and more about being middle class (I have an old group family photo -- with no names, unfortunately -- which would have been taken in the early 20th century and they are all well dressed and look prosperous). On my grandmother's death registration her mother's family name is recorded as "Camdron", which as far as my research has gone is an anglicised rendering of the Estonian name "Kamdron". My grandmother's birthplace was Wollmar, modern Valmiera, close to the modern Estonian border.

Again, thanks for the info.

ollie444
03-22-2017, 12:08 PM
It's normally wife spends money on things behind the husband's back

This wouldn't happen to be you would it?

14661

jonathanmcg1990
03-22-2017, 02:00 PM
This wouldn't happen to be you would it?

14661

Sorry Ollie yes this appears to be lol. I am on gedmatch my kit number is T420901. I have tested with living dna currently awaiting results. I am prepared for you to look into my family tree dna account to look at my family tree if you are prepared to exchange email addresses.

C J Wyatt III
03-22-2017, 02:13 PM
Sorry Ollie yes this appears to be lol. I am on gedmatch my kit number is T420901. I have tested with living dna currently awaiting results. I am prepared for you to look into my family tree dna account to look at my family tree if you are prepared to exchange email addresses.

Hi Jonathan,

I am a compulsive comparer of GEDmatch kits. My mother's kit (T436420) is a match with default parameters to your kit. The matching segment is on #2, 6,265,751 -9,219,488 Mbp, 8.9 cM length, and 892 SNP's. Estimated generations to MRCA is 6.4.

I would be happy to exchange notes.

Jack

ollie444
03-22-2017, 03:52 PM
Sorry Ollie yes this appears to be lol. I am on gedmatch my kit number is T420901. I have tested with living dna currently awaiting results. I am prepared for you to look into my family tree dna account to look at my family tree if you are prepared to exchange email addresses.

Comparing Kit A968357 (feel free to use kit no. anyone) (*ollieb444) and T420901 (*Jonathan McGuinness)

Largest segment = 8.2 cM
Total of segments > 7 cM = 8.2 cM
1 matching segments
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.2

How does the family tree dna work? I have uploaded my ancestry data to myheritage and ftdna. Can't seem to find you on ftdna. Am willing to PM you my email to see your tree if that is possible.

chelle
03-22-2017, 07:51 PM
Comparing Kit A968357 (feel free to use kit no. anyone) (*ollieb444) and T420901 (*Jonathan McGuinness)

Largest segment = 8.2 cM
Total of segments > 7 cM = 8.2 cM
1 matching segments
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.2

How does the family tree dna work? I have uploaded my ancestry data to myheritage and ftdna. Can't seem to find you on ftdna. Am willing to PM you my email to see your tree if that is possible.

Well, I seem to match with Jonathan McGuinness.
Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
22 43,681,315 47,195,099 10.5 1,258
Largest segment = 10.5 cM
Total of segments > 7 cM = 10.5 cM
1 matching segments
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 5.2


My gedmatch kits are A440124 and M015550

jonathanmcg1990
03-22-2017, 09:17 PM
Hi guys.

Here is my email address [email protected]

Feel free to email me it'll be easier than trying to respond here to everyone individually

wombatofthenorth
03-24-2017, 05:04 AM
Many thanks for the detailed response. It is much appreciated.

Indeed it is probable that if the background is Baltic German it would be partial and more about being middle class (I have an old group family photo -- with no names, unfortunately -- which would have been taken in the early 20th century and they are all well dressed and look prosperous). On my grandmother's death registration her mother's family name is recorded as "Camdron", which as far as my research has gone is an anglicised rendering of the Estonian name "Kamdron". My grandmother's birthplace was Wollmar, modern Valmiera, close to the modern Estonian border.

Again, thanks for the info.

My mom has a lot of ancestry from Valmiera, her entire mom's father's side has had every single person traced on all lines (most into the 1700s and a few even into 1600s, one to 1649) within Valmiera parish region.

Calas
04-02-2017, 01:49 AM
In anticipation of the first big batch of DNA results, I think it would be fun to compile a list of what we expect our ethnicity estimates to be, based on the where our ancestors were born.

My own was post #64, page 7. That's my entire ancestry for those who may have seen the little 3rd great-grandparent breakdown/summary image posted elsewhere & gone "what". Most of it is Scottish, hence the 50% Scottish in the signature. I could go into detail as to how, what and where but that'd mean summarizing a 5,000+ page PDF file.

The ancestors of the tester are in the below image
https://i.imgsafe.org/0535f3630a.png

Paternal >> 70% Swedish > give or take 20% Norwegian > give or take 10% Finnish based
Maternal >> 50% Scottish, 20-30% English, 20-30% Welsh > give or take around or less 5% Irish*

*Irish, legitimate. As in not of British or Scottish root.


Given my own lackluster results I seriously expect LivingDNA to say he's anything but 50/50 Scandinavian/British. Or even relatable to that via British ancestry. So it is a bit of wasted money > I was rather bored. If nothing else (if the timeframe for testing is correct) I should have results to entertain one of his grandparents with on their birthday.

jdean
04-03-2017, 04:33 PM
Dad should primarily be S. Wales Border, S. Central England & Central England and Mum S. Wales, S. Wales Border & S. Central England

Be interesting to see the results but they've both got colds at the mo so don't want to bother them with cheek swabs : )

Spent a little time today tallying up my parents ancestry

Dad's going back about 5 generations is

Staffordshire 31%
Somerset 19%
Derbyshire 13%
Gloucestershire 13%
Radnorshire 9%
Monmouthshire 6%
Wiltshire 6%
Shropshire 3%

which should return something like

Central England 50%
South Central England 32%
South Wales Border 18%

and Mum's

Monmouthshire 41%
Brecon 13%
Glamorganshire 9%
Pembrokeshire 6%
Radnorshire 6%
Gloucestershire 6%
Shropshire 6%
Wiltshire 3%
Somerset 3%
Herefordshire 3%
Ireland 3%

which would predict

South Wales Border 78%
South Central England 12%
South Wales 6%
Ireland 3%

Still at the testing stage so I expect it'll be a good few weeks before I find out : )

Pylsteen
04-12-2017, 02:58 PM
Hello people,

I decided to finally take a DNA test at LivingDNA after years of interest in genealogy. I just sent back my kit, so now have to wait.

My paper ancestry is approximately as follows. As you can see, I am Dutch, but we've had centuries of immigration, mostly from Germans and Flemish;
I also have partly Jewish and Colonial ancestry:

Dutch + Flemish: ca. 75%
German: ca. 8%
French + Walloon: ca. 2%
British: ca. 0,75 to 1%
Swiss: ca. 0,5%
mixed European/Asian colonial: ca. 1%
--
Ashkenazi: ca. 4,6% (3/64)
Sephardi: ca. 1,6% (1/64)
--
South-East-Asian: ca. 5-6%
--

I am curious what they will assign the Dutch to; I would expect Germanic, but as I read about the British-heavy tests, they might misread it as Anglian. I hope that in the future more Dutch people will take part, because I have the feeling DNA testing isn't as popular as in the Anglo-Saxon world.

I wonder if they will correctly pick out my Devon ancestors, which is the 0,75% British.
I made a "mixed colonial" category, which contains ancestors with a European surname, but who were born in the Dutch Asian colonies, and I haven't been able to trace back to Europe. Often, they could have a "native" mother.
The South-East-Asian is mostly Indonesian (Javanese and Borneo), but there might be traces of Sout-East-India and Sri Lanka in there.

jortita
04-30-2017, 01:18 PM
DELETE, apologies it was an incorrect post

jdean
05-29-2017, 06:40 PM
Spent a little time today tallying up my parents ancestry

Dad's going back about 5 generations is

Staffordshire 31%
Somerset 19%
Derbyshire 13%
Gloucestershire 13%
Radnorshire 9%
Monmouthshire 6%
Wiltshire 6%
Shropshire 3%

which should return something like

Central England 50%
South Central England 32%
South Wales Border 18%

and Mum's

Monmouthshire 41%
Brecon 13%
Glamorganshire 9%
Pembrokeshire 6%
Radnorshire 6%
Gloucestershire 6%
Shropshire 6%
Wiltshire 3%
Somerset 3%
Herefordshire 3%
Ireland 3%

which would predict

South Wales Border 78%
South Central England 12%
South Wales 6%
Ireland 3%

Still at the testing stage so I expect it'll be a good few weeks before I find out : )

Well results are in and my father's are bizarre to say the least !!!

SE England 49.6
Devon 17.4
SWales 6.4
Cornwall 4.8
SC England 4.2
N Wales 2.2
S Wales Border 1.8
NW England 1.7
GB Unassigned 2.1

Scandinavia 9.9

Mum's on the other hand are preaty much in line with her genealogy

S Wales Border 55.8
S Wales 26
SC England 14.9
N Wales 1.9
GB Unassigned 1.4

They also nailed Mum's MtDNA whilst Dad's was left hanging at H1c (he's H1c4b) and his Y at DF13 ???

ollie444
05-29-2017, 07:11 PM
Well results are in and my father's are bizarre to say the least !!!

SE England 49.6
Devon 17.4
SWales 6.4
Cornwall 4.8
SC England 4.2
N Wales 2.2
S Wales Border 1.8
NW England 1.7
GB Unassigned 2.1

Scandinavia 9.9

Mum's on the other hand are preaty much in line with her genealogy

S Wales Border 55.8
S Wales 26
SC England 14.9
N Wales 1.9
GB Unassigned 1.4

They also nailed Mum's MtDNA whilst Dad's was left hanging at H1c (he's H1c4b) and his Y at DF13 ???

This seems to very much back up my thoughts that Living DNA cannot reliably and consistently distinguish any of the red squares (see photo). All of my midlands ancestry has been lumped into either SE England or South England.
16378


Scandinavian seems bizarre. Someone else who didn't think they had any also received some the other day. I wonder if this is like the Tuscan people are receiving in their results - surely an error with the test.

jdean
05-29-2017, 07:22 PM
All of my midlands ancestry has been lumped into either SE England or South England.

Ah at least I'm not the only one, I was thinking of giving them a ring before I rip up Dad's tree : )



Scandinavian seems bizarre.

Very bizarre !!!!

ollie444
05-29-2017, 07:28 PM
Ah at least I'm not the only one, I was thinking of giving them a ring before I rip up Dad's tree : )




Very bizarre !!!!

I am slightly peeved by this as it makes me appear to have southern ancestry, when my furthest south ancestor is from about level with Worcester.

I am hopeful that future updates will remedy this problem. ;)

EDIT: At least they did, as you say, nail your mum's results!

FionnSneachta
05-29-2017, 10:44 PM
I do like the idea of what Living DNA is trying to achieve. Being able to pinpoint specific regions is especially useful for people for example in America that don't know where in England or Ireland their ancestors came from. However, if there are regions that are very similar or there's massive overlap it probably isn't very accurate to make a guess at it. I think that it's better to have results that are accurate than precise. At the moment I much prefer Ancestry just telling me that I'm 96% Irish than Living DNA giving me all of these regions that I have no known connection with. Even if I'm 100% Irish after the update, if ancestry comes up in the far north, south or east I'd be questioning it. Of course if it goes back 10 generations, some of my ancestors could have been victims of the whole Hell or to Connacht so they could have come from anywhere in Ireland back then.

If people with known paper trails are getting inconsistent results, it's going to send people that don't know their ancestry in the wrong direction. It could also cause someone to think a family story is false like if there was supposed to be an Irish ancestor but the person gets a very low Irish result. I know that Ireland and Scotland might have similar ancestry but I think that if they can differentiate between people within England, they should be able to differentiate between Ireland and Scotland.

If Living DNA can improve their results, these things won't be a problem and as we all know it's still in the early stages. However, if it can't be improved upon it will just cause confusion and disappointment. At the moment they're trying to find regions within Ireland and Germany but their Great British results aren't perfected yet and maybe they should be trying to get that right first. Although maybe regions like Ireland and Germany will help eliminate false results in England. When a test is being ordered, can a person from Great Britain indicate if their grandparents were born within an 80 km radius? That could possibly continuously help make their results more accurate.

I'm not judging it too harshly at the moment but if it can't get accurate results within the next year or few years I don't know if it ever will. I'm glad that I got my results, although inaccurate, before the Irish update because it will be interesting to see the comparison.

ollie444
05-30-2017, 09:49 AM
I do like the idea of what Living DNA is trying to achieve. Being able to pinpoint specific regions is especially useful for people for example in America that don't know where in England or Ireland their ancestors came from. However, if there are regions that are very similar or there's massive overlap it probably isn't very accurate to make a guess at it. I think that it's better to have results that are accurate than precise. At the moment I much prefer Ancestry just telling me that I'm 96% Irish than Living DNA giving me all of these regions that I have no known connection with. Even if I'm 100% Irish after the update, if ancestry comes up in the far north, south or east I'd be questioning it. Of course if it goes back 10 generations, some of my ancestors could have been victims of the whole Hell or to Connacht so they could have come from anywhere in Ireland back then.

If people with known paper trails are getting inconsistent results, it's going to send people that don't know their ancestry in the wrong direction. It could also cause someone to think a family story is false like if there was supposed to be an Irish ancestor but the person gets a very low Irish result. I know that Ireland and Scotland might have similar ancestry but I think that if they can differentiate between people within England, they should be able to differentiate between Ireland and Scotland.

If Living DNA can improve their results, these things won't be a problem and as we all know it's still in the early stages. However, if it can't be improved upon it will just cause confusion and disappointment. At the moment they're trying to find regions within Ireland and Germany but their Great British results aren't perfected yet and maybe they should be trying to get that right first. Although maybe regions like Ireland and Germany will help eliminate false results in England. When a test is being ordered, can a person from Great Britain indicate if their grandparents were born within an 80 km radius? That could possibly continuously help make their results more accurate.

I'm not judging it too harshly at the moment but if it can't get accurate results within the next year or few years I don't know if it ever will. I'm glad that I got my results, although inaccurate, before the Irish update because it will be interesting to see the comparison.

You might be pleased with ancestry DNA, but this is probably as your DNA appears very Celtic. For the rest of us in England, we get a whole mash of Irish, British, Scandinavian, Western Europe, Iberian etc. Living DNA has actually proved far more accurate for lots of us. I hope your results are better with the update.

FionnSneachta
05-30-2017, 02:19 PM
You might be pleased with ancestry DNA, but this is probably as your DNA appears very Celtic. For the rest of us in England, we get a whole mash of Irish, British, Scandinavian, Western Europe, Iberian etc. Living DNA has actually proved far more accurate for lots of us. I hope your results are better with the update.

Well that's good then. Is it mainly just border regions that are being mixed up then? I thought that there were some regions that were coming up for people with high percentages that weren't anywhere near where their ancestors originated or even massive Scaninavian percentages.

I know at the moment they are mainly targeting people with British ancestry which of course provides much more information than Ancestry or other DNA companies. Hopefully as they carry out more research projects their accuracy will improve. At least with Living DNA they do seem to be continuously trying to improve their product unlike other companies that are happy with what they have without trying to improve it.

I do love the fact that it is three tests in one which saves a lot of money and time. I do love what they are trying to do and I don't feel the need to carry out any other ethnicity tests after this. Testing with Ancestry covers the DNA matches aspect while hopefully Living DNA will provide accurate and precise DNA results which will be able to pinpoint regions in Ireland and England if there are some. It is fascinating that a person's origin can be pinpointed so precisely to a specific location based on DNA alone. As we know Ancestry determine their genetic communities based on matches and family trees.

estevard
05-31-2017, 05:46 AM
I was not altogether surprised to find unexpected subregional components. The Southeastern English was close to spot on, the Cornish was higher than expected and the Scottish (even allowing neighbours) considerably lower. Given further refinement is in the offing, I won't quibble.

...

I am still awaiting an update of my original February release results, but having found time to go graphic I still think they are reasonable.

16423

The yellow diamonds represent the birthplaces of my 12 British Isles great-great grandparents. Bottom left is the Feb results.

jonathanmcg1990
05-31-2017, 03:59 PM
I remember some taking about regions that always cropping up on people livingDNA results. I am keen in knowing since i got my results back i would like to compare.

ollie444
05-31-2017, 05:10 PM
I remember some taking about regions that always cropping up on people livingDNA results. I am keen in knowing since i got my results back i would like to compare.

I think Cornwall and Orkney are the prime suspects. Possibly South East England too. Anyone got any others?

Canadian Cousin
05-31-2017, 07:08 PM
My sample just went into testing this week, so my results are not expected until August 21st. However, in keeping with the title of this thread, based on my paper trail I'm expecting my Living DNA results to be as follows:

50.0% Ireland (all of which should be from South Munster, which the company is tentatively calling the Desmond cluster)
25.0% Cornwall
18.8% Devon
3.1% Central England (specifically Warwickshire)
3.1% Southeast England (specifically London, so could actually be from anywhere)

I'm most interested in confirming the Irish component, as I haven't gotten any further back than my 2xgreat-grandparents on most of those branches, as well as the Cornish and Devon components, where I've made the most progress - on my direct paternal (surname) line, back to the mid-1500s. Time will tell!

sktibo
05-31-2017, 07:44 PM
I think Cornwall and Orkney are the prime suspects. Possibly South East England too. Anyone got any others?

i think that covers it.. perhaps south central England too? though it might be that this is just an incredibly common region