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A.Morup
01-31-2017, 11:52 AM
Hi there forum!

I did a BigY at FTNA last year as well as a Y111.
It turned out that I had a Y111 match with a genetic difference of 4 with a man from Sweden and we share 33 novel variants (26 true shared + 4 for me and 3 for him).
We are both at Ytree and Yfull.

We have not identified our common ancestor yet, but are confident that we are getting close. He has traced his most distant paternal ancestor to 1590 and I am back at 1660 - the geographic distance is down to 160 kilometers. We have clues that indicate that going back another generation or two on my side will lead us to the common ancestor, but due to the quality of the sources, it is really hard work!

We have no FF match at all, so no NPE within the last 6 generations.

Now - if I was going to spend another BigY to refine my branch of the haplotree, what would be the best person to test:


A male line descendant of the most distant male ancestor of whom I know the paper trail - in this case back to a man born in 1790?
My brother or a first cousin?
Save the money and do Yseq SNP testing on several known descendants of male ancestors?


What do you suggest?

Kind regards
Anders

asquecco
01-31-2017, 02:48 PM
Hi
I have more or less the same case and my goal is to refine the estimate of the MRCA of me and the man I already tested.
With Y111 our GD is 4 and with BIG Y we share 17 positive novel variants + 3 for me and 1 for him.
At the end I chose to test "A male line descendant of the most distant male ancestor of whom I know the paper trail - in this case back to a man born in" 1606 (in my case).
With this man my Y111 GD is 3. BIG Y results should arrive in a couple of weeks.
Probably all three of us share the same MRCA +/- 1 generation, so BIG Y could not answer my question.
Regards,
Adriano

ArmandoR1b
01-31-2017, 04:56 PM
Hi there forum!

I did a BigY at FTNA last year as well as a Y111.
It turned out that I had a Y111 match with a genetic difference of 4 with a man from Sweden and we share 33 novel variants (26 true shared + 4 for me and 3 for him).
We are both at Ytree and Yfull.

We have not identified our common ancestor yet, but are confident that we are getting close. He has traced his most distant paternal ancestor to 1590 and I am back at 1660 - the geographic distance is down to 160 kilometers. We have clues that indicate that going back another generation or two on my side will lead us to the common ancestor, but due to the quality of the sources, it is really hard work!

We have no FF match at all, so no NPE within the last 6 generations......

Kind regards
Anders

I apologize that I do not have a suggestion but I do have a question. What is the TMRCA for the two of you at YFull?

Osiris
01-31-2017, 07:13 PM
Hmm, I can't see how a Big Y would help. The only thing you might get is the ability to split your 4 novel variants but it would be much much cheaper to take your 1790 cousin and have him test those 4 at YSEQ.

Maybe the money would be better spent on a professional genealogist if there is the potential of some record in the area shining a light on your earliest paternal ancestor.

Maybe try the Family Finder on a few of those cousins. Maybe you were unlucky in inheriting DNA from the common ancestor you're trying to find and your 1790 cousin or your first cousin might have gotten luckier. It's a crap shoot though.

A.Morup
02-01-2017, 08:41 AM
Thanks for your contributions!
During the night, it all came clear to me - thanks to Osiris:


Another Big Y on a remote relative will only reveal his private SNPs but not add any major advantage to me, that can not be achieved by individual SNP testing (see below).

BigY testing a close relative will only make 3-4 of my current 4 private SNPs part of the public haplotree - not necessary a good thing.

With only 4 private SNPs since my oldest known paternal ancestor, I am in a sweet spot! I know of a living relative who branches off my line in 1790 - somewhere in the middle between me and my oldest known paternal ancestor. I can start by SNP testing this person for one good SNP that I have in common with my Swedish match (20.50$ at Yseq.net - all included) to check that the linkage is good. If that is the case, I can then test him for my 4 private SNPs (now 17.50$ each at Yseq). Then I will know the exact private SNPs of my paternal ancestor at 1790 (lets say that he had 2 of my private SNPs). I can then test more recent relatives, but now I will only have to test for the 2 private SNPs of my 1790 ancestor. I will get full knowledge of the development of all my 4 private SNPs through all the generations from 1790 to me, and at a fraction of the price of a BigY. And if I ever manage to track down even older cousins, I can also go back in time from 1790. And at the end of the day, I will get to a point where just one 20.50$ Yseq test will confirm any relationship in my male line. What's not to like!
:beerchug:


A professional genealogist is not needed - I am not that bad at genealogy myself and my Swedish match is a real expert. All we lack is time to visit the physical archives in Copenhagen, but that is only a question of priorities.
FamilyFinder will most probably just add to the confusion - it is so nicely narrowed down with just Y-DNA, and that is how I can solve this riddle ;-)

My Swedish match joined Yfull last week, so we do not know the TMRCA yet.

By the way - I have tried to trace all male lines descending from all men in my male line. Do you know how fragile our male lines are?! Go a hundreds years back and a lot of the children never survived to the age of 18. Many of those who did survive ended up with only daughters - others were too poor to marry and died unmarried. And then nowadays with only 2-3 children pr. couple, odds are high that no sons are born in a marriage (like 12 to 25% for a couple). But with less than 1 million Danes in the year 1700 and just below 6 million today, statistics say that on average a man from the year 1700 will have only 6 living descendants in direct male line today. Definitely looks like my line fits that calculation!

Thanks guys!
Anders