Warrior Gene

[The_Lyonnist]

I would like to know where it came from, historically (which peoples). Is there a distribution map?

[Jenny]

I remember the study involved Finnish men

[MonkeyDLuffy]

I would like to know where it came from, historically (which peoples). Is there a distribution map?

There's no specific population it originated in. It is found in every population of world. It's just a trait which first humans had.

[Il Papà]

I would like to know where it came from, historically (which peoples). Is there a distribution map?

Apparently, it's pretty ancient since it's also found in some monkeys. But in Human it's a repeat sequence of 30 base pairs that has been inserted from three to five times into the promoter region.

While in monkeys it can be the same 30-base-pair repeat seen in humans or the shorter 18-base-pair repeat, among other form.

From the article

These findings intrigued psychiatrist Klaus-Peter Lesch of the University of Wurzburg in Germany, who works with the NIAAA group. His team first found, in macaques, a similar 18-base-pair repeat that also modulates MAOA enzyme activity. And macaques with less enzyme were more aggressive than other macaques when competing for food, says Lesch.
Newman then sampled all apes and many monkeys--almost 600 primates in all--and found the same 30-base-pair repeat seen in humans or the shorter 18-base-pair repeat, among other forms. He noted that apes and Old World (Asian and African) monkeys carried these alleles, whereas New World (South American) monkeys did not. That suggests that the allele arose after New World and Old World monkeys split, but before apes and Old World monkeys diverged about 25 million years ago.
During those 25 million years, aggressive and risk-taking behavior must have had reproductive payoffs for some males, says Newman. But the gene didn't sweep through populations, because if a male was too violent, he probably died before reproducing. Newman suggests that the MAOA gene may offer a rare example of so-called balancing selection, in which selection favors two or more forms of a gene and maintains all the forms in a population. "The human social environment required the development of all kinds of emotional and cognitive capabilities, and [it] demanded variation in impulsivity in humans," agrees David Goldman, a member of the NIAAA team. "It's what I call the warrior vs. the worrier?' In other words, primate politics has long favored more than one route to success.

http://ic.galegroup.com/ic/ovic/AcademicJournalsDetailsPage/DocumentToolsPortletWindow?jsid=7a015969afa4b61ce4 6daa85b4f2da33&action=2&catId=&documentId=GALE%7CA117257403&userGroupName=iuclassb&zid=d6cb10a834e96493a7f5354118c9ed26


And the warrior gene (3R variant) is the more common Moa variant in Asian and Black people it seems:

From wikipedia :

59% of Black men, 54% of Chinese men, 56% of Maori men, and 34% of Caucasian men carried the 3R allele

Some Black people seems to also carry the extreme warrior gene (2R variant)

5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men carried the 2R allele

[Jenny]

http://www.livescience.com/9197-impulsive-gene-identified-finnish-men.html So this has been refuted?

[Calas]

And the warrior gene (3R variant) is the more common Moa variant in Asian and Black people it seems:

From wikipedia :




Interesting in a way. But, then there's the below.


with the 3R and 4R variants most common in Caucasians. High testosterone, maternal tobacco smoking during pregnancy, poor material living standards, dropping out of school, and low IQ also predicts violent behavior in men with the low-activity alleles (which are overwhelmingly the 3R allele). Even in the absence of such interaction factors, the 3R allele has a small main effect on aggression and antisocial behavior, according to a large meta-analysis, which found no significant publication bias.

This isn't a single gene or condition to be blamed for people's behaviors. After all, supposedly 40% of the population carries the MAOA-L variation but I don't think 40% of the population are ranting over-reactionary/violent individuals.

[Shaikorth]

http://www.livescience.com/9197-impulsive-gene-identified-finnish-men.html So this has been refuted?

That's about HTR2B, a different violence-associated gene.

[The_Lyonnist]

I have this gene. I also had an affective and psychological childhood. So I confirm that relationships with others are often difficult.

[Leper]

It's totally misleading to call it "warrior gene".

[Bollox79]

I personally think there are easily more than one or two (or a combination etc) of genes that can control "aggressive" behavior. I have had issues with my temper throughout my life... I'm know (or used to be know - I am getting older and better at controlling it) angry guy or angry drunk guy or whatever. Always looking for conflict... whatever you want to call it. I love that rush you get when the anger comes on, and I see "red" so I no longer drink (that is from my Mother's Irish side - my Grandfather O'Dwyer had the same issue). Anyway... I'm TT at the Rs6311 SNP (associated with higher stress response - more receptors - something like that) so it makes me wonder if I'm also TT for that
HTR2B 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor 2B found in Finnish men for implusive behavior (don't worry I have a couple 5th cousin from Finland in my autosomal matches - though mainly I get Irish and Scots with a few Germans/Baltics). Couldn't find the rs number for the SNP for the HTR2B 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor 2B gene though in my autosomal results from FTDNA, but did find the rs6311 etc. Maybe one day we will figure out what makes us tick ;-). P.S. I had several psychologists tell me they think my brain doesn't produce enough serotonin - based on years of observed behaviors, and I am a different person when I take Prozac - which is an SSRI - stops the brain from taking back up the serotonin or something like that! Confusing! Maybe there is an SNP or ten for that issue :-)!

Cheers!

[Calas]

nevermind

[The_Lyonnist]

This gene acts only in a situation of oppression.

[Il Papà]

I personally think there are easily more than one or two (or a combination etc) of genes that can control "aggressive" behavior. I have had issues with my temper throughout my life... I'm know (or used to be know - I am getting older and better at controlling it) angry guy or angry drunk guy or whatever. Always looking for conflict... whatever you want to call it. I love that rush you get when the anger comes on, and I see "red" so I no longer drink (that is from my Mother's Irish side - my Grandfather O'Dwyer had the same issue). Anyway... I'm TT at the Rs6311 SNP (associated with higher stress response - more receptors - something like that) so it makes me wonder if I'm also TT for that
HTR2B 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor 2B found in Finnish men for implusive behavior (don't worry I have a couple 5th cousin from Finland in my autosomal matches - though mainly I get Irish and Scots with a few Germans/Baltics). Couldn't find the rs number for the SNP for the HTR2B 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor 2B gene though in my autosomal results from FTDNA, but did find the rs6311 etc. Maybe one day we will figure out what makes us tick ;-). P.S. I had several psychologists tell me they think my brain doesn't produce enough serotonin - based on years of observed behaviors, and I am a different person when I take Prozac - which is an SSRI - stops the brain from taking back up the serotonin or something like that! Confusing! Maybe there is an SNP or ten for that issue :-)!

Cheers!

How are you different ?

[Calas]

This gene acts only in a situation of oppression.

Then every oppressed person would be an overreacting individual who'd throw off the shackles of their oppressors. Supposedly 40% of the human population carries this gene, as in they possess it. More than 40% of the population, either due to the color of their skin, their religion, or their social status, falls into the category of oppressed one way or the other. So why hasn't there ever been some world spanning revolt?

Because as I said earlier, and researchers have said, this singular gene is NOT the only thing responsible for activating the "warrior gene". There's also the very simple fact the so-called "warrior gene" is associated with risk taking and other factors that have nothing to do with oppression.

[Bollox79]

How are you different ?

Ahh Il Papà it took me a second realize what you meant, but then I saw the bolded part about how I'm different when I take prozac. Off the top of my head, I would say there is a big difference in personality when I take prozac, and when I have missed my doses (ran out of it usually!) and my friends and especially my wife immediately start to notice that I am much more moody, angry, willing to argue for many minutes about something that isn't really important, and I also push people's buttons in order to agitate them so they will fight with me (no full on fist fight with my wife or friends - good example would be get in a heated argument/fight about certain issues discussed today). With strangers - some times I can't work well with them if they are disrespectful because I also stand my ground and that can lead to confrontation and even fist fighting etc. I'm sure there are some more behaviors I do that I am forgetting, but generally I become a very moody, "I don't want to talk to anybody so f off" type.

When I take prozac consistently it calms me down a lot in the sense that I don't fly off the handle so quickly... I stop and listen and think about the situation and if it's really worth getting in a conflict with someone? Not really... short of someone attacking you or a loved one or friend. I am much more able to be around people... even rude people... and I just ignore them and go on with my day. Off prozac - I immediately challenge them, tell them they are being rude and to f off... if they were rude to me or someone near me.

I suppose those are good examples of how I'm "different" when I take prozac - it's certainly genetic because my father was the same way and we first found out the prozac worked very well for him... they tried it on me and blam! It worked! It's almost like when I'm not on prozac there is an intense pressure in my head... always wanting to force it's way out or make me aggressive and some times loosing my temper is almost like a sneeze reaction if that makes sense? I know it's starting to come on, but can't always stop it. It is kind of like that smoldering behind your eyes... constantly aggravated even when not talking to anyone... Prozac helps mellow that out and I feel more normal in that I can be relaxed a bit.

Hope I answered your question there!

Cheers,
Charlie

[Il Papà]

Ahh Il Papà it took me a second realize what you meant, but then I saw the bolded part about how I'm different when I take prozac. Off the top of my head, I would say there is a big difference in personality when I take prozac, and when I have missed my doses (ran out of it usually!) and my friends and especially my wife immediately start to notice that I am much more moody, angry, willing to argue for many minutes about something that isn't really important, and I also push people's buttons in order to agitate them so they will fight with me (no full on fist fight with my wife or friends - good example would be get in a heated argument/fight about certain issues discussed today). With strangers - some times I can't work well with them if they are disrespectful because I also stand my ground and that can lead to confrontation and even fist fighting etc. I'm sure there are some more behaviors I do that I am forgetting, but generally I become a very moody, "I don't want to talk to anybody so f off" type.

When I take prozac consistently it calms me down a lot in the sense that I don't fly off the handle so quickly... I stop and listen and think about the situation and if it's really worth getting in a conflict with someone? Not really... short of someone attacking you or a loved one or friend. I am much more able to be around people... even rude people... and I just ignore them and go on with my day. Off prozac - I immediately challenge them, tell them they are being rude and to f off... if they were rude to me or someone near me.

I suppose those are good examples of how I'm "different" when I take prozac - it's certainly genetic because my father was the same way and we first found out the prozac worked very well for him... they tried it on me and blam! It worked! It's almost like when I'm not on prozac there is an intense pressure in my head... always wanting to force it's way out or make me aggressive and some times loosing my temper is almost like a sneeze reaction if that makes sense? I know it's starting to come on, but can't always stop it. It is kind of like that smoldering behind your eyes... constantly aggravated even when not talking to anyone... Prozac helps mellow that out and I feel more normal in that I can be relaxed a bit.

Hope I answered your question there!

Cheers,
Charlie

Did you test with Ftdna for the warrior gene ? if you didn't what's your rs909525 result ? Because if you're warrior and seeing how you react to things in life, I would say you're a warrior, Fluoxetine is not the most recommended SSRI. And Fluoxetine (Prozac) is known to act not only as an ssri but also on dopamine and norepinephrine by increasing their level in the brain, that's why some became aggressive when taking prozac and especially those who got the warrior gene I think.

[Il Papà]

This gene acts only in a situation of oppression.

No, having the warrior gene simply mean that you produce less monoamine oxidase A, And MAO-A breakdown neurotransmitters, such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. So you have more neurotransmitters in your brain when you have the warrior gene aka the 3 repeat version of the MAO-A gene .

[Bollox79]

Did you test with Ftdna for the warrior gene ? if you didn't what's your rs909525 result ? Because if you're warrior and seeing how you react to things in life, I would say you're a warrior, Fluoxetine is not the most recommended SSRI. And Fluoxetine (Prozac) is known to act not only as an ssri but also on dopamine and norepinephrine by increasing their level in the brain, that's why some became aggressive when taking prozac and especially those who got the warrior gene I think.

Il Papa,

I haven't taken the warrior gene test from FTDNA... but I think I'm normal per the rs909525 result... which leads me to believe there are several (or more) genes that can be responsible for aggression and or just having a higher stress response. I have many of the symptoms of this... like a willingness to do violence when I feel I'm within my right to do so. For example, one guy a work once threatened my future sister-in-law several times and then started to threaten me. I shoved him into a wall to make my point to let it go and he ended up having a fractured pelvis and sprained wrist. Now if I had the scumbag gene would I have stomped his head in? Not sure... as I held back knowing that the whole restaurant where we worked was watching and that up till that point I figured I could get away with what I had already done on the account of co-workers overhearing our argument and me warning him to let it go and stop threatening my family member.

I have the TT results on one of the serotonin receptors, which is strongly associated with higher (more extreme) stress response. The way I interpret that is that I don't necessarily get angry more often... or I'm not "always" angry... but when I do get to my limit (and I can't drink whiskey anymore - that's another whole story lol!) I've destroyed pieces of furniture. I'm the opposite of the MAO-A gene in that I don't have ENOUGH neurotransmitters in the first place, which according to to all the "doctors" I've spoken to about it... it can create the same effect? Makes your brain go haywire. Basically it's like this... when I take prozac I can actually think about my response - is it worth it to get angry about this or that? When I don't take it... I tend to immediately react on instinct (always ready for conflict), but that can't be good for my health. Also make living with me hard... just ask my wife.

Is it good for a fight... of course! It's great... takes half a second to go from fairly normal to loosing my mind... but that is not adaptive more helpful in most, normal life circumstances. I've been in a lot of fights... been mugged by four guys jumping out of the bushes... etc etc... and in those situations it's helpful, but I'm not living in the medieval ages (not yet anyway lol). I wouldn't take the warrior gene thing too seriously... there is a good test for that... go get in a fist fight and see how you react without training... then again you are taking a chance that they might pull a weapon on you. In my experience there is no honor and people who are used to violence will immediately react and try and sucker punch you ;-).

At the end of the day I will be happy if I can have a good job, raise some kids, and grow old with my wife. I've had plenty of fights... time for some peace and quiet ;-). In the end I want to get my shit done and be left alone... but I train and stay in good shape (do physical jobs or lift weights/run and grapple with my buddy who is a very good Judo/BJJ guy) just in case ;-).

Cheers,
Charlie

[Bollox79]

Did you test with Ftdna for the warrior gene ? if you didn't what's your rs909525 result ? Because if you're warrior and seeing how you react to things in life, I would say you're a warrior, Fluoxetine is not the most recommended SSRI. And Fluoxetine (Prozac) is known to act not only as an ssri but also on dopamine and norepinephrine by increasing their level in the brain, that's why some became aggressive when taking prozac and especially those who got the warrior gene I think.

Also in my family - on my Mother's side they are very recently Gaelic Irish and Scots - my Grandfather and his brother O'Dwyer (mother was a McGuire and MacAulay/MacDonald from Canada via the Highlands/Hebrides) were decorated soldiers in WWII. Grandfather fought both behind enemy lines in Germany and with Filipino resistance fighters in the Pacific (why he was later in the Pacific is another story) as we have letters written by a Filipino lady home to my future Grandmother - Grandpa fought with her brother versus the Japanese. His brother fought his way North through Italy and into France with Patton's 6th Army. He won the Bronze Star at the Siege of Anzio and the Silver Star defending while surrounded on three sides against Operation North Wind in France late in the War. That one cost him his life. Also on my Father's side (mainly Scots-Irish mixed with Pennsylvania Dutch) we have many Civil War soldiers - about 5 out of 8 GGGreat GFs on his side served - in my Weaver line alone three brothers all served and one Uncle was in the 12th PA Cav and later was 1st Sergeant in the US 6th Cav out west. He served in that unit for 25 years until his death at Fort Niobrara. His remains were moved to Fort Leavensworth National Cemetery a while ago. So I suppose fighting runs in the family... but like I said... and I quote Sun Tzu here: "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious."

[Petr]

I haven't taken the warrior gene test from FTDNA... but I think I'm normal per the rs909525 result...

FTDNA Warrior gene test results are not related to rs909525 results.

[Little bit]

FTDNA Warrior gene test results are not related to rs909525 results.

Rs909525 is actually pretty reliable as far as the results I've seen. People with the C version of that snp, and who have taken the Warrior factoid test at FTDNA, have all come out positive for it. I am C/C for the snp, verified 2 copies of the 3 repeat variant at FTDNA, and to double check, my son is also tested, C at 23andme, positive for the 3 repeat at FTDNA. I always tell people at 23andme, however, that they need to test at FTDNA to confirm their results.

There's an orientation issue because 23andme reports all snp's on the plus strand while this snp is generally reported on the minus strand, so G=C and A=T:
https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs909525

In the research I've done on this snp, it's really not about fighting. In fact, having less MAOA in the synapse actually results in more neurotransmitters in the synapse, which is why it's called a 'Happiness' variant for females and male children:
http://www.livescience.com/22789-gene-linked-to-happiness-in-women.html

Not sure why it leads to aggression in adult males, in fact, other studies have actually suggested it helps in decision making in stressful situations. The best explanation of the variant I've heard is it results in excess serotonin for the fetus, resulting in desensitization. Being desensitized could mean that there is nothing to calm the individual when being provoked, ergo the panic button doesn't work. In my group, I would say me and my son are less aggressive than my non carrier husband as a general rule, but when provoked, we have a harder time winding down and letting go.

[MonkeyDLuffy]

I'm A;G, so technically I carry one warrior gene and one non warrior gene. I have been only in one life threatening situation where the store I was working alone at was getting robbed. I threw the cookie cabinet at robber (he had a gun) without thinking (my brain stopped working) causing him to panic and run away.

[Little bit]

@MonkeyDLuffy:

The variant is on the X chromosome and males should have one copy. Who gave you A;G?

[Petr]

Rs909525 is actually pretty reliable as far as the results I've seen. People with the C version of that snp, and who have taken the Warrior factoid test at FTDNA, have all come out positive for it. I am C/C for the snp, verified 2 copies of the 3 repeat variant at FTDNA, and to double check, my son is also tested, C at 23andme, positive for the 3 repeat at FTDNA. I always tell people at 23andme, however, that they need to test at FTDNA to confirm their results.


All people I tested have rs909525 T = A, but some of them have 4 repeats and some of them 3 repeats. I am one of those with 3 repeats.

In fact, there is no SNP tested by 23andMe or FTDNA with correlation to the number of repeats. At least for our family.

[Little bit]

@Petr:


All people I tested have rs909525 T = A, but some of them have 4 repeats and some of them 3 repeats. I am one of those with 3 repeats.

In fact, there is no SNP tested by 23andMe or FTDNA with correlation to the number of repeats. At least for our family.

Verified at FTDNA?

[Il Papà]

All people I tested have rs909525 T = A, but some of them have 4 repeats and some of them 3 repeats. I am one of those with 3 repeats.

In fact, there is no SNP tested by 23andMe or FTDNA with correlation to the number of repeats. At least for our family.

Well, people with rs909525=T can be either 3R or 4R but people with rs909525=G are only 3R from what I saw.

[Mis]

My spouse has genes warrior.
Before marriage you should investigate it.

[MonkeyDLuffy]

@MonkeyDLuffy:

The variant is on the X chromosome and males should have one copy. Who gave you A;G?

I simply checked for two snps it mentioned in warrior genes article, I get T(A) on one, and G on other. Also athletigen gave me *Mix of Warrior and Strategist* as well.

[Little bit]

athletigen gave me *Mix of Warrior and Strategist*

Athletigen is referring to the snp rs4680 which is in the COMT gene on chromosome 22, not MAOA which is on the X. Not related to each other, I have the same COMT results as you. I assume that the 2 snps for MAOA include rs6323, which is not in LD with the MAOA warrior variant, though I think the G variant is more common in 3 repeat carriers. I am GT for the snp, my son is G. Someone explained to me once how someone can have the low response MAOA 3 repeat variant and increased MAOA activity variant as one affects one thing, and the other affects something else. Anyway, the post was on the old 23andme forum which I can't search anymore. Hopefully whoever that was, or someone else who knows how they relate to each other can chime in.

[Petr]

@Petr:

Verified at FTDNA?

Yes, verified at FTDNA.

[Petr]

Well, people with rs909525=T can be either 3R or 4R but people with rs909525=G are only 3R from what I saw.

I met no rs909525=G person so far so it is possible.

[Little bit]

@Petr

Well, I guess T carriers are either, though as myself and Il Papà concurred, C carriers have been 3 repeat carriers to far. Though anyone curious about this variant should rely on FTDNA results and not assume from any other source. Of course, I mentioned before that I always tell 23andme customers they have to test at FTDNA to be sure.

[ellefolk]

Neuroscience is important too, y'all.

[Saba123]

I have the warrior gene B)

[kingjohn]

my result on the x chromosome
rs909525=T/T no warrior :)
regards
adam