PDA

View Full Version : Living DNA - the Y



Pages : [1] 2

A Norfolk L-M20
02-05-2017, 11:14 AM
Living DNA uses a chip that tests a generous 22,500 Y-SNPs. The first results have only recently started to come through, and the company has reported here, that these results are not finalised on the Y, that they still have some work to do on reporting Y-DNA haplogroups. They have not yet reported any Y for myself, my Living DNA portal still reports RESULTS PROCESSING.

I thought that it would be worthwhile starting a thread here, where we can report, compare, and discuss Y-DNA as reported to us by Living DNA.

AntG
02-05-2017, 03:25 PM
At FTDNA, I got the common predicted R-M269 but then based on the STR results and matches, I was able to see (with help of Dennis Wright/Irish Type III Project Admin) that I was likely Irish Type III/R-L226 and confirmed via an SNP pack to get R-FGC12290.

At 23andMe, I was given R1B1B2A1A2F* (as an international user, I'm still on the old experience). I also believe that designation is based on an old tree. I think it is R-L21.

Living DNA has done better than 23andMe and the initial STR test at FTDNA by giving me R-Z2534; not as far down as Irish Type III but great for an initial test. People would then have to go elsewhere to get further down the tree/most likely FTDNA, unless of course LivingDNA start offering other Y products. FTDNA are great for having their matching database and Projects. It will be interesting to see if the Phase 2 of matching that LivingDNA will also match on the Y (see the DNA matching thread) as they've said it will be matching on all information gained from the chip, so doesn't that imply that it will?

JMcB
02-05-2017, 04:37 PM
After initially getting my 67 STR marker results, FTDNA designated me as predicted I-M253. My I1-Z140 administrator correctly predicted from those STR results that I would be I-Y3649. Living DNA has assigned me I-S2169 aka F2642 which is fairly decent but also fairly far above I-Y3649 (which can be seen by the YFull tree below).

After sending in my sample to Living DNA, I also had a BigY test done that showed that I've split the I-L234 branch which should show up on YFul's tree sometime this month. Until then, I am currently under YFull's L234 branch but I'm L234 negative. So I am really I-Y7198 which is what the new branch will probably be called once YFull recalibrates.

13795

Probably more than you wanted to know but there you go.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
02-05-2017, 05:21 PM
I was quite surprised that they picked up my U106 Z326 which I had from my Chromo 2 test. I guess it's one that they could pick up easily? John

firemonkey
02-05-2017, 05:43 PM
They gave me as E-35 subclade E-V68 at first . I emailed them and they recalculated it as E-V13. That's better though still off from what yfull(E-Z16664) and FTDNA (E-BY5219) say.
A member of the double helix E forum has me as the only E-BY5220 so far but that seems not to be counted as a subclade.

Living dna did basically say that the Y assignment was very much a work in progress.

corner
02-05-2017, 06:12 PM
Living DNA uses a chipPrevious chip-based SNP tests couldn't 'see' DF27, I wonder if known downstream subclades are covered by this one. Have any DF27>ZZ12 (Z195-) got a y result from it?

Amerijoe
02-05-2017, 06:23 PM
23 and me J1c, R1a1a=M417
Tribecode. J1c, R1a1a1b2a2a=Z2123
FTDNA. J1c, R-M198
Geno 2+. J1c4, R-Z94
Livingdna. J1c, R-Z93
BigY. >M198>M417>Z645>Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2125>Z2123>Y934>Y15121>Y19715>YP5842

Yes, I agree LDNA has some way to go on YDNA. The best of the lot was Tribecode. I have their pop. breakdown on my laptop. Will post later.

simdadams
02-05-2017, 06:26 PM
Living DNA put me a R-M269 and sub R-L151

My FTDNA Y test also put be at R-M269, I then did a Big Y which put me in R-MC21 which I believe is under CTS2501/S836 • DF41/S524/CTS6581

Not sure where R-L151 is and I haven't been taken any further down

JohnHowellsTyrfro
02-05-2017, 09:20 PM
To be honest I didn't see this as a Y tool, more related to regional ancestor distribution but if they can do something to develop understanding of Y DNA in a different way great. John

sktibo
02-05-2017, 09:34 PM
Previous chip-based SNP tests couldn't 'see' DF27, I wonder if known downstream subclades are covered by this one. Have any DF27>ZZ12 (Z195-) got a y result from it?
13802

Yep. R-M153, I'm having it double checked but it would make sense with my known ancestry.

ArmandoR1b
02-05-2017, 09:49 PM
To be honest I didn't see this as a Y tool, more related to regional ancestor distribution but if they can do something to develop understanding of Y DNA in a different way great. John

It's potentially a money saver for some people. If they never had a Y-DNA SNP test and are going to get Living DNA test then they can hold off on a Y-DNA SNP test at FTDNA or Yseq then once they know their positive and negative Y-SNP results then they can get a more specific Y-DNA SNP pack at FTDNA or Yseq.

ArmandoR1b
02-05-2017, 09:50 PM
13802

Yep. R-M153, I'm having it double checked but it would make sense with my known ancestry.
R-M153 is Z195+. He is asking about people that are Z195-. If you really are positive for M153 you are also positive for the following SNPs R-P312/S116 > Z40481 > ZZ11 > DF27/S250 > Z195/S355 > Z272 > S450 > Z295/S1217 > Z216 > S452 > Z697 > Z214 > Z279 > CTS8087 > CTS9164 > CTS2142

They are at the top of the M153 page at http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=757

corner
02-05-2017, 09:54 PM
13802

Yep. R-M153, I'm having it double checked but it would make sense with my known ancestry.Thanks, the y part of the test looks really good for DF27 compared to previously available tests from other companies.

sktibo
02-05-2017, 11:20 PM
Thanks, the y part of the test looks really good for DF27 compared to previously available tests from other companies.

Yeah it's pretty good for the money. As Armando pointed out, I'm not Z195-, whoops. Hopefully everything is accurate, but as I said I'm getting it checked and if it turns out there's a mistake with my haplogroup assignment I'll post it

Amerijoe
02-05-2017, 11:57 PM
To be honest I didn't see this as a Y tool, more related to regional ancestor distribution but if they can do something to develop understanding of Y DNA in a different way great. John

John, it's exactly why I tested with them. Having a YDNA far from indigenous to the Island, autosomal related regions is a plus. At present working on paper trail for mother's side. Hopefully there will be some matchup to specific areas. Dr. Nicholson mentioned additional sampling of Ireland and Scotland. In my case it will be of great interest. :) Joe

JMcB
02-06-2017, 12:45 AM
To be honest I didn't see this as a Y tool, more related to regional ancestor distribution but if they can do something to develop understanding of Y DNA in a different way great. John


I agree. When I ordered my test, it was the regional breakdowns that were the main draw. At the time I was only predicted I-M253 and had no mtDNA reading at all. So the fact that both of them were included was gravy.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
02-06-2017, 09:30 AM
What I would be very interested to see is the regional distribution of Y clades across the UK. Just from self-interest I would really like to see whether there is a particular pattern to U106 Z326, which might give a clue to how, when and where it arrived in the UK, but I haven't yet tested my Y separately anywhere else yet. John

ArmandoR1b
02-06-2017, 12:50 PM
Living DNA put me a R-M269 and sub R-L151

My FTDNA Y test also put be at R-M269, I then did a Big Y which put me in R-MC21 which I believe is under CTS2501/S836 • DF41/S524/CTS6581

Not sure where R-L151 is and I haven't been taken any further down

R-MC21 is downstream of L151 > P312/S116 > L21/S145 > DF13 > Z39589 > DF41/S524 > Z43690

So you seem to have the worst Y-DNA result of everyone since Living DNA did not show you do be positive for P312, L21 or DF41.

The M153+ for sktibo is also questionable since 23andme shows him to be negative for M153 since he has an allele of A for that SNP at 23andme.

So there is one bad result and one questionable result so far.

02-06-2017, 03:56 PM
R-MC21 is downstream of L151 > P312/S116 > L21/S145 > DF13 > Z39589 > DF41/S524 > Z43690

So you seem to have the worst Y-DNA result of everyone since Living DNA did not show you do be positive for P312, L21 or DF41.

The M153+ for sktibo is also questionable since 23andme shows him to be negative for M153 since he has an allele of A for that SNP at 23andme.

So there is one bad result and one questionable result so far.

Hi ArmandoR1b, im waiting for my LivingDNA results, according to 23andme, I was R1a1a, so will be interesting if this is confirmed with LivingDNA or not, Do you comment on Y, R1a subclades also or do you stick to just R1b? sorry if this is a stupid question.

ArmandoR1b
02-06-2017, 06:32 PM
Hi ArmandoR1b, im waiting for my LivingDNA results, according to 23andme, I was R1a1a, so will be interesting if this is confirmed with LivingDNA or not, Do you comment on Y, R1a subclades also or do you stick to just R1b? sorry if this is a stupid question.
It really depends on the subclade. 23andme didn't test any of the R-M417 subclades that are in the current YFull or ISOGG trees. There is already one person with a result far downstream from R-M417 at LivingDNA so you will likely be too.

edit: 23andme R1a1a is M17, M198. Current R1a1a1 has PAGES00007 rs34297606 position 14498990 mutation C>T which was tested by 23andme but wasn't in the ISOGG tree used by 23andme. It is a phylogenetic equivalent to M417 which isn't tested by 23andme.

Amerijoe
02-06-2017, 07:02 PM
Hi ArmandoR1b, im waiting for my LivingDNA results, according to 23andme, I was R1a1a, so will be interesting if this is confirmed with LivingDNA or not, Do you comment on Y, R1a subclades also or do you stick to just R1b? sorry if this is a stupid question.

sgdavies, I was R1a1a at 23 until recently, they changed it to R-M417. My long form stops at R1a1a1b2a2a equivalent to R-Z2123. Yfull has me at YP5842. One match to a fellow from Poland with Prussian ancestry. TMRCA not posted yet, but should be about 3500 yrs. No source location to date. May have connection to the Sintashta Culture. Autosomal says I'm on the Gaelic side. Not much to work on. Have to wait to see if some ancestor pops up during a dig. :) Joe

02-10-2017, 09:31 AM
It really depends on the subclade. 23andme didn't test any of the R-M417 subclades that are in the current YFull or ISOGG trees. There is already one person with a result far downstream from R-M417 at LivingDNA so you will likely be too.

edit: 23andme R1a1a is M17, M198. Current R1a1a1 has PAGES00007 rs34297606 position 14498990 mutation C>T which was tested by 23andme but wasn't in the ISOGG tree used by 23andme. It is a phylogenetic equivalent to M417 which isn't tested by 23andme.

Hi well finally got my Y-DNA from LivingDNA
They got me down as "Y-DNA: R-Z283"
13942

ArmandoR1b
02-10-2017, 01:51 PM
Hi well finally got my Y-DNA from LivingDNA
They got me down as "Y-DNA: R-Z283"
13942

That's pretty good but not good enough to get you out of the R1a-Backbone SNP Pack if you were to test with FamilyTreeDNA. The only two SNPs packs available for R1a are Z280 and Z284. At least it is a lot better than 23andme.

Z283 is 5,000 years old according to YFull https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z283/ so if you want a much younger subclade you will need more testing with FTDNA, Yseq, or FullGenomes.

02-10-2017, 02:02 PM
That's pretty good but not good enough to get you out of the R1a-Backbone SNP Pack if you were to test with FamilyTreeDNA. The only two SNPs packs available for R1a are Z280 and Z284. At least it is a lot better than 23andme.

Z283 is 5,000 years old according to YFull https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z283/ so if you want a much younger subclade you will need more testing with FTDNA, Yseq, or FullGenomes.

I think I am fairly happy with that result, maybe it "might", in future be refined a little bit further, we will see, either way I am happy.
Cheers ArmandoR1b.

angscoire
02-10-2017, 02:45 PM
I think I am fairly happy with that result, maybe it "might", in future be refined a little bit further, we will see, either way I am happy.
Cheers ArmandoR1b.

A relatively quick and cost effective way to see beyond your Z283 result is ( if you haven't already done so) : test Y67 at FTDNA ; when the results are in - join the R1a FTDNA group and see where they place you within the R1a tree .Their predictions are normally good , unless you have an especially unusual Y67 score which leaves you Z283* (ie without belonging to a known subclade -which is unlikely ) . Either way you'll know a lot more and be in a better position to pursue more testing (SNP Packs , Big Y , etc, as Armando said) if you wish. R1a is very rare in Wales - I can only see three on the FTDNA R1a group page - an L664 , a predicted Z284-L448 ( maybe the only one with possible Viking connections) and a predicted Z280 .

A Norfolk L-M20
02-14-2017, 11:59 AM
I've been waiting two weeks for my Y-DNA to catch up with the auDNA and mtDNA results. It's been "Results processing". I started to wonder if a) my "rare" haplogroup had broke them, or b) there was a glitch that needed to be reported. So, yesterday evening, I messaged living DNA from their Facebook Page. They responded in less than an hour, even though it is evening here in the UK! It appears that my haplogroup did indeed break their new system ha ha. I should hopefully have results back at the weekend.

02-14-2017, 01:15 PM
I've been waiting two weeks for my Y-DNA to catch up with the auDNA and mtDNA results. It's been "Results processing". I started to wonder if a) my "rare" haplogroup had broke them, or b) there was a glitch that needed to be reported. So, yesterday evening, I messaged living DNA from their Facebook Page. They responded in less than an hour, even though it is evening here in the UK! It appears that my haplogroup did indeed break their new system ha ha. I should hopefully have results back at the weekend.

That's great news A Norfolk L-M20, I look forward to your results.

deadly77
02-14-2017, 03:34 PM
I've been waiting two weeks for my Y-DNA to catch up with the auDNA and mtDNA results. It's been "Results processing". I started to wonder if a) my "rare" haplogroup had broke them, or b) there was a glitch that needed to be reported. So, yesterday evening, I messaged living DNA from their Facebook Page. They responded in less than an hour, even though it is evening here in the UK! It appears that my haplogroup did indeed break their new system ha ha. I should hopefully have results back at the weekend.

Haha - "computer says no". But I must say that I like what I hear about responses to customers from LivingDNA - seem to be rather engaged.

Táltos
02-14-2017, 05:57 PM
Haha - "computer says no". But I must say that I like what I hear about responses to customers from LivingDNA - seem to be rather engaged.

Nice Little Britain reference. :) Alright sorry I'm off topic carry on.

A Norfolk L-M20
02-23-2017, 04:20 PM
I've finally received my Y results (after 3 prompts by FB messaging), and it appears to be wrong!

23andMe took it to L1b (well, L2*, but out dated nomenclature)

FT-DNA Y111 took it to L1 L-M22) initially

Big Y took it initially to L1b, then to L1b2c (L-SK1414), now down to L-FGC51036

Yfull presently have it as L1b (L-M317*).

It is L-M20 - M22 - SK1412 - SK1414 - FGC51036.

But Living DNA have given me a radically different route: L-M20 - M2481 - L1307 - M2398! That is L1a2a, a radically different clade.

Helgenes50
02-23-2017, 04:25 PM
I've finally received my Y results (after 3 prompts by FB messaging), and it appears to be wrong!

23andMe took it to L1b (well, L2*, but out dated nomenclature)

FT-DNA Y111 took it to L1 L-M22) initially

Big Y took it initially to L1b, then to L1b2c (L-SK1414), now down to L-FGC51036

Yfull presently have it as L1b (L-M317*).

It is L-M20 - M22 - SK1412 - SK1414 - FGC51036.

But Living DNA have given me a radically different route: L-M20 - M2481 - L1307 - M2398! That is L1a2a, a radically different clade.

Dear twin brother,
You have a non conformist haplogroup

A Norfolk L-M20
02-23-2017, 04:30 PM
Dear twin brother,
You have a non conformist haplogroup

I think it has broken their test.

Helgenes50
02-23-2017, 04:47 PM
I think it has broken their test.

Did you see Eurogenes, L-M20 was part of the last thread.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-U_I1OG8cjsc/WK1serM1_0I/AAAAAAAAFU0/ODRh6WbQ0Hcw4jARXZN0l2rBJlwmJGGSgCLcB/s823/L-M20.png

http://eurogenes.blogspot.fr/2017/02/rumors-leaks-thread.html

A Norfolk L-M20
02-23-2017, 04:56 PM
Did you see Eurogenes, L-M20 was part of the last thread.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-U_I1OG8cjsc/WK1serM1_0I/AAAAAAAAFU0/ODRh6WbQ0Hcw4jARXZN0l2rBJlwmJGGSgCLcB/s823/L-M20.png

http://eurogenes.blogspot.fr/2017/02/rumors-leaks-thread.html

Oh I'm watching that! Waiting though to hear more than the rumours ha ha.

ArmandoR1b
02-23-2017, 05:31 PM
I've finally received my Y results (after 3 prompts by FB messaging), and it appears to be wrong!

23andMe took it to L1b (well, L2*, but out dated nomenclature)

FT-DNA Y111 took it to L1 L-M22) initially

Big Y took it initially to L1b, then to L1b2c (L-SK1414), now down to L-FGC51036

Yfull presently have it as L1b (L-M317*).

It is L-M20 - M22 - SK1412 - SK1414 - FGC51036.

But Living DNA have given me a radically different route: L-M20 - M2481 - L1307 - M2398! That is L1a2a, a radically different clade.

LivingDNA put you into the wrong subclade, failed to put simdadams into a DF13 subclade or at the very least show him positive for L21, and provided a possible false positive of M153 for sktibo. They have quite a bit of work to do on the Y-DNA since so far the rate of bad calls is pretty high considering that's 3 out of 9 people that have reported results that contradict 23andme and/or BigY.


1 A Norfolk Bad. Wrong subclade of HG L1
2 AntG Ok
3 JMcB Ok
4 JohnHowellsTyrfro Ok
5 firemonkey Ok
6 Amerijoe Ok
7 simdadams Bad. Negative for DF13 and L21
8 sktibo Questionable since it contradicts 23andme result
9 [email protected] Ok

J1 DYS388=13
02-23-2017, 06:03 PM
Do your BigY results show M2398+ ?

A Norfolk L-M20
02-23-2017, 06:56 PM
Do your BigY results show M2398+ ?

Nope. No M2398, L1307, or M2481. FullGenomes Corp also analysed the Big Y. Nada.

DebbieK
03-01-2017, 08:26 PM
The Living DNA Y-DNA results that people are getting now are not the finished version. The Y-DNA results are still going through the QC process. There will be more detailed haplogroup assignments in due course. There have been problems with Illumina who provided incorrect calling data which meant that some of the SNPs were being incorrectly called.

sktibo
03-01-2017, 08:30 PM
The Living DNA Y-DNA results that people are getting now are not the finished version. The Y-DNA results are still going through the QC process. There will be more detailed haplogroup assignments in due course. There have been problems with Illumina who provided incorrect calling data which meant that some of the SNPs were being incorrectly called.

Apologies for the off topic question, but are the SNP's being incorrectly called only applying to the Y SNPs or the autosomal also?

DebbieK
03-01-2017, 08:42 PM
It's all the SNPs. Living DNA received a new validation file from Illumina just before Rootstech. These are the first results run on this new GSA chip so I suppose it's inevitable that there will be a few teething problems.

sktibo
03-02-2017, 12:34 AM
It's all the SNPs. Living DNA received a new validation file from Illumina just before Rootstech. These are the first results run on this new GSA chip so I suppose it's inevitable that there will be a few teething problems.

Do you think this will affect our results? Is it likely our standard mode estimates will be changed after they get things sorted out? Thank you

A Norfolk L-M20
03-02-2017, 12:55 AM
My Y results from the Living DNA test were a disaster. They got to L1, then went off on a false positive on a tangent, down two or three more SNPs! If I hadn't tested my Y thoroughly before, including Big Y, I may well have believed it. A total disaster. I had to wait several more weeks after receiving my other results, badger them three times, just to get an untrue haplogroup. David Nicholson did message me personally, to explain the problems they've had with the new chip, but I am very disappointed. The product should have been better tested before going live. They've peeled it back to L1. Even 23andMe got it to L1b (well, L2* in out date nomenclature). I was going to test an uncle to get my late grandfather's Y, but I've lost trust.

The haplogroup history blurb is just the same out dated, misleading rubbish that all of the vendors spout out about L being Southern Asian. I hoped for something better. Same for my mtDNA history - nonsense about Ice Age Brits and Doggerland, for a clade associated with the Steppe migration. Could have done better Living DNA.

sktibo
03-02-2017, 01:15 AM
My Y results from the Living DNA test were a disaster. They got to L1, then went off on a false positive on a tangent, down two or three more SNPs! If I hadn't tested my Y thoroughly before, including Big Y, I may well have believed it. A total disaster. I had to wait several more weeks after receiving my other results, badger them three times, just to get an untrue haplogroup. David Nicholson did message me personally, to explain the problems they've had with the new chip, but I am very disappointed. The product should have been better tested before going live. They've peeled it back to L1. Even 23andMe got it to L1b (well, L2* in out date nomenclature). I was going to test an uncle to get my late grandfather's Y, but I've lost trust.

The haplogroup history blurb is just the same out dated, misleading rubbish that all of the vendors spout out about L being Southern Asian. I hoped for something better. Same for my mtDNA history - nonsense about Ice Age Brits and Doggerland, for a clade associated with the Steppe migration. Could have done better Living DNA.

I'm sorry to hear this news, but thank you for sharing it. I suspect my own haplogroup is probably incorrect as well. Seems like we've had a bit of bad news from living DNA recently, I hope they're going to rectify the situation before their reputation takes a turn for the worse

A Norfolk L-M20
03-02-2017, 01:26 AM
I've been pondering over the last week, and busy with work. However, I'm not happy. I thought that this new chip was going to give cracking results on the Y. I have to admit, I knew that my personal Y-DNA was going to be a test for them, but it is what it is. Because I've tested my Y substantially, I know how to evaluate their test results on it. Basically their result sucked. Not only that, I hate the haplogroup blurbs. We enthusiasts all probably imagine a super DNA test vendor - and it gives cutting edge information. None of the vendors do. Unfortunately, that includes this new service. Probably fine for the run of the mill punter, but if only....

I can currently only recommend Living DNA for it's autosomal DNA tests, for people of known mixed British ancestry, that want to get an idea what regions that their British ancestors might have lived. I think that I'm going to start blogging to that effect. I feel really disappointed. Giving a basic no frills Y haplogroup is one thing. Assigning me a totally incorrect - by thousands of years, sub clade is another. Imagine if an R1b man was assigned an R1a subclade, the horror! That is what I'm talking about.

sktibo
03-02-2017, 01:34 AM
Hopefully a living DNA representative will pop on here sooner than later and update us as to their plan of action

DebbieK
03-02-2017, 01:56 AM
The problem with the calls is an Illumina problem and out of the control of Living DNA. It seems that Illumina roll out a product and expect the users to do the quality control for them. I think there will be slight variations in the results when everything is run. For some reason some people are more affected than others. The Y-DNA reports will be updated, and will have proper citations. The current reports are from their legacy website.

sktibo
03-02-2017, 02:08 AM
The problem with the calls is an Illumina problem and out of the control of Living DNA. It seems that Illumina roll out a product and expect the users to do the quality control for them. I think there will be slight variations in the results when everything is run. For some reason some people are more affected than others. The Y-DNA reports will be updated, and will have proper citations. The current reports are from their legacy website.

Thank you very much, I greatly appreciate the info you've given us

JohnHowellsTyrfro
03-02-2017, 05:31 AM
The problem with the calls is an Illumina problem and out of the control of Living DNA. It seems that Illumina roll out a product and expect the users to do the quality control for them. I think there will be slight variations in the results when everything is run. For some reason some people are more affected than others. The Y-DNA reports will be updated, and will have proper citations. The current reports are from their legacy website.

Thank you. I'm sure there are people here who would be happy to contribute to that process if needed. The last thing we all need is the fanciful historical inaccuracy sometimes given out by other companies. John

ollie444
03-02-2017, 10:28 AM
The problem with the calls is an Illumina problem and out of the control of Living DNA. It seems that Illumina roll out a product and expect the users to do the quality control for them. I think there will be slight variations in the results when everything is run. For some reason some people are more affected than others. The Y-DNA reports will be updated, and will have proper citations. The current reports are from their legacy website.

Does this mean that our samples are going to have to be completely retested?

JohnHowellsTyrfro
03-02-2017, 10:39 AM
Does this mean that our samples are going to have to be completely retested?

Just in relation to your Y test, they picked up my Z326 ok, so I would think they would pick up yours. John

DebbieK
03-02-2017, 11:40 AM
Does this mean that our samples are going to have to be completely retested?

The actual DNA testing won't have to be redone. It's something to do with the way that the bases are called, but the new Illumina validation file will make sure that the calls are correct. Any tests done before the file was received from Illumina will have to be rerun so there might be small changes.

We will expect to see our results change over time anyway as more reference datasets are added. There should be another big update in about three to four months' time.

A Norfolk L-M20
03-02-2017, 05:06 PM
The actual DNA testing won't have to be redone. It's something to do with the way that the bases are called, but the new Illumina validation file will make sure that the calls are correct. Any tests done before the file was received from Illumina will have to be rerun so there might be small changes.

We will expect to see our results change over time anyway as more reference datasets are added. There should be another big update in about three to four months' time.

I am still a little mad at Living DNA for their balls up of my Y test analysis. However, I do respect their policy so far of openness.

ollie444
03-02-2017, 07:28 PM
I am still a little mad at Living DNA for their balls up of my Y test analysis. However, I do respect their policy so far of openness.

Openness? If they or Illumina have had a hitch, such as our results not necessarily being entirely accurate, we should probably all have had an email from Living DNA!

sktibo
03-02-2017, 09:13 PM
Openness? If they or Illumina have had a hitch, such as our results not necessarily being entirely accurate, we should probably all have had an email from Living DNA!

Some communication would have been great, but at the same time it appears they were deceived by illumina

Dibran
03-02-2017, 11:44 PM
The problem with the calls is an Illumina problem and out of the control of Living DNA. It seems that Illumina roll out a product and expect the users to do the quality control for them. I think there will be slight variations in the results when everything is run. For some reason some people are more affected than others. The Y-DNA reports will be updated, and will have proper citations. The current reports are from their legacy website.

Can we get an ETA of when this is expected to change/be adjusted?

My results are currently being tested and have been in testing for a month now( I know it typically can take 3).

I'm curious as to how accurate and detailed they will be. I was recommended to LivingDNA by site administrators on Eupedia.

Hopefully this issue is sorted out. I also paid for the ancestry book and would be disappointed if false assignments were printed and shipped. Considering the book is assumed to ship a month after results are released, I would hope the issue is resolved by that time.

Kind regards

Dibran
03-02-2017, 11:49 PM
The problem with the calls is an Illumina problem and out of the control of Living DNA. It seems that Illumina roll out a product and expect the users to do the quality control for them. I think there will be slight variations in the results when everything is run. For some reason some people are more affected than others. The Y-DNA reports will be updated, and will have proper citations. The current reports are from their legacy website.


The actual DNA testing won't have to be redone. It's something to do with the way that the bases are called, but the new Illumina validation file will make sure that the calls are correct. Any tests done before the file was received from Illumina will have to be rerun so there might be small changes.

We will expect to see our results change over time anyway as more reference datasets are added. There should be another big update in about three to four months' time.

Just read this now. So as my results have been testing for a month with estimated completion end of April. Am I to assume my results upon release will be accurate?

Or were my results undergoing testing prior to the receipt of this file?

My testing started end of January/ beginning of February.

David Nicholson
03-03-2017, 03:46 AM
Hi Everyone,

I've been reading through the posts and apologies for not seeing these before and jumping online.

As mentioned we are working hard to provide the results to everyone a few things to point out;

1. The new "cluster file" from illumina is something that we've received and is much more robust, however given our experience we are now hand curating every single one of the near 700,000 Markers on the chip to double check. This is what are team are working flat out on.

2. Whilst the calls may affect slightly the ancestry percentage output, the biggest changes to the percentages people will receive will be each time we update our panel of datasets and we are planning a big update for later in the year.

3. Once we've been through and re-validated all 700,000 markers this will help us speed up the overall TAT of the test which will be a great help for everyone.

We really appreciate all the support from the community and are working hard to keep improving the product and making it more useful for everyone,

Warmest Regards

David

sktibo
03-03-2017, 04:11 AM
Hi Everyone,

I've been reading through the posts and apologies for not seeing these before and jumping online.

As mentioned we are working hard to provide the results to everyone a few things to point out;

1. The new "cluster file" from illumina is something that we've received and is much more robust, however given our experience we are now hand curating every single one of the near 700,000 Markers on the chip to double check. This is what are team are working flat out on.

2. Whilst the calls may affect slightly the ancestry percentage output, the biggest changes to the percentages people will receive will be each time we update our panel of datasets and we are planning a big update for later in the year.

3. Once we've been through and re-validated all 700,000 markers this will help us speed up the overall TAT of the test which will be a great help for everyone.

We really appreciate all the support from the community and are working hard to keep improving the product and making it more useful for everyone,

Warmest Regards

David

Thank you for posting here and letting us know how things are going, we very much appreciate it. Best of luck with everything! Very excited for new features like complete mode but it looks like you've got your hands full with some more pressing issues.

simdadams
03-03-2017, 09:10 AM
Hi Everyone,

I've been reading through the posts and apologies for not seeing these before and jumping online.

As mentioned we are working hard to provide the results to everyone a few things to point out;

1. The new "cluster file" from illumina is something that we've received and is much more robust, however given our experience we are now hand curating every single one of the near 700,000 Markers on the chip to double check. This is what are team are working flat out on.

2. Whilst the calls may affect slightly the ancestry percentage output, the biggest changes to the percentages people will receive will be each time we update our panel of datasets and we are planning a big update for later in the year.

3. Once we've been through and re-validated all 700,000 markers this will help us speed up the overall TAT of the test which will be a great help for everyone.

We really appreciate all the support from the community and are working hard to keep improving the product and making it more useful for everyone,

Warmest Regards

David

Thanks David. Mine looks a little off, happy for you to have access to my bigY file if that helps

deadly77
03-09-2017, 05:40 AM
Mine came in today: I-Z2535. Pretty close to predicted I-L338 from FTDNA admins and Nevgen. Better resolution than 23andme (I-M253).

Wing Genealogist
03-09-2017, 08:54 AM
Some communication would have been great, but at the same time it appears they were deceived by illumina

As a project admin, I try not to "air out the dirty laundry" in public, but work to get the situation fixed behind the scenes. This is different than trying to cover up any flaws. I readily acknowledge when issues potentially affect results, but I personally believe in the philosophy of "praise publicly and criticize privately".

I believe/hope LivingDNA is taking the same position.

03-09-2017, 10:10 AM
Mine came in today: I-Z2535. Pretty close to predicted I-L338 from FTDNA admins and Nevgen. Better resolution than 23andme (I-M253).

Hey deadly77 is there an idiots guide to use the Nevgen calculator?B)

deadly77
03-09-2017, 02:47 PM
Hey deadly77 is there an idiots guide to use the Nevgen calculator?B)

Not that I'm aware of. I just manually add the Y-STR values into the table (this can take some time if you have a lot, then hit calculate. That should give overall haplogroup with not much definition. If you click on the icon on the top left that looks like three lines with sliders on a mixing desk to the left of where is says FTDNA order, then it brings up a side menu where you can pick some refined options for subclades of some of those.

J1 DYS388=13
03-23-2017, 07:14 PM
Living DNA correctly classified me as J-Z1828, a branch of J1.

The descriptive text was about J1, not my branch.

Dewsloth
03-23-2017, 07:28 PM
Not that I'm aware of. I just manually add the Y-STR values into the table (this can take some time if you have a lot, then hit calculate. That should give overall haplogroup with not much definition. If you click on the icon on the top left that looks like three lines with sliders on a mixing desk to the left of where is says FTDNA order, then it brings up a side menu where you can pick some refined options for subclades of some of those.

I was able to open the STR file in Excel, and then copy/paste them in one shot to populate the Nevgen table. It seemed to work okay and saved time over typing it all in manually. OTOH, the Nevgen calculator has issues with a least some DF19s (e.g. Me) to the extent that it didn't know what I was, and the most likely result other than "unknown" was a DF27!

03-24-2017, 09:44 AM
I was able to open the STR file in Excel, and then copy/paste them in one shot to populate the Nevgen table. It seemed to work okay and saved time over typing it all in manually. OTOH, the Nevgen calculator has issues with a least some DF19s (e.g. Me) to the extent that it didn't know what I was, and the most likely result other than "unknown" was a DF27!

Hi Dewsloth, I have my raw data (from 23andme), unzipped in *.txt file.
Do you mean open this file in Excel?

it goes like this:-
rsid chromosome position genotype
rs12564807 1 734462 AA
rs3131972 1 752721 GG
rs148828841 1 760998 CC
etc etc etc etc......

What Next?

Dewsloth
03-24-2017, 02:35 PM
Hi Dewsloth, I have my raw data (from 23andme), unzipped in *.txt file.
Do you mean open this file in Excel?

it goes like this:-
rsid chromosome position genotype
rs12564807 1 734462 AA
rs3131972 1 752721 GG
rs148828841 1 760998 CC
etc etc etc etc......

What Next?

Sorry, I was using FTDNA - when you look at your STR results, there are buttons that just say "CSV file" and "Excel file" or something like that.

ArmandoR1b
03-24-2017, 08:35 PM
An easy way to get the STR values into Nevgen is to go to the Y-DNA results page of whichever FTDNA project that you are in then highlight all of your markers then copy and paste them into the predictor.

03-24-2017, 10:00 PM
An easy way to get the STR values into Nevgen is to go to the Y-DNA results page of whichever FTDNA project that you are in then highlight all of your markers then copy and paste them into the predictor.

Yeah I tried that nothing happened... probably did somthing wrong, but no idea what.

ScorpioRising
03-25-2017, 10:22 AM
Does anyone know if the raw data of livingdna available ? I personally do not want to order a kit before checking out the snps they test as i have already got tested from 23andme, FTDNA and AncestryDNA.I would like to know how many common snps livingdna has...

DebbieK
03-25-2017, 11:30 AM
The raw data will eventually be made available. They are trying to work out the best format for delivering the data.

Robert McBride
04-07-2017, 08:39 PM
Just got my Living dna results a month early.
They have me as M222 with the subtype as DF109. I have taken a Big Y test and my rare subclade of FGC30690 is below S588.

Robert McBride
04-08-2017, 03:18 PM
Just got my Living dna results a month early.
They have me as M222 with the subtype as DF109. I have taken a Big Y test and my rare subclade of FGC30690 is below S588.

15099

Here's the Phylogenetic tree for my Living Dna fatherline results incase anyones interested in what they have as directly below M222.

MacUalraig
04-08-2017, 03:29 PM
In other words, feeble. There was more on Chromo2 four years ago.

Robert McBride
04-10-2017, 10:18 AM
In other words, feeble. There was more on Chromo2 four years ago.

Surely R-Y2841 is equivalent to R-DF109 and shouldn't have its own separate branch?

Robert McBride
04-10-2017, 10:28 AM
In other words, feeble. There was more on Chromo2 four years ago.

In fact isn't it just another name for DF106?

MacUalraig
04-10-2017, 10:53 AM
The marker was found by Jim Wilson in late 2012 when he sequenced the Lamonts and was named S658 by him. Y2841 and DF106 are later synonyms yes.

sktibo
04-10-2017, 08:50 PM
Living DNA just contacted me about my Y haplogroup:
"I've spoken to the development team and they have told me that the correct haplogroup has been called for yourself - with the breakdown per subclade of (ISOGG Classification):

R: M207/Page37/UTY2 (positive key & 26 positive markers)
R1: M173/P241/Page29 (positive key & 13 positive markers)
R1b: M343/PF6242 (positive key marker)
R1b1: PF6270,PF6246,L822/PF6247/YSC0000075,CTS2134,L506/PF6267,M415/PF6251,PF6272 (7 positive markers)
R1b1a: L754/PF6269/YSC0000022 (positive key & 11 positive markers)
R1b1a1a: P297/PF6398 (positive key & 12 positive markers)
R1b1a1a2: M269/PF6517 (positive key & 46 positive markers)
R1b1a1a2a: L23/PF6534/S141 (positive key marker)
R1b1a1a2a1: L51/M412/PF6536/S167 (positive key marker)
R1b1a1a2a1a: PF6543/S1159/YSC0000191,P311/PF6545/S128,P310/PF6546/S129 (3 positive markers)
R1b1a1a2a1a2: P312/PF6547/S116 (positive key marker)
R1b1a1a2a1a2a1: S227/Z195 (positive key marker)

Assignment : R-Z195"

It hasn't changed on my living DNA page but I thought it was great of them to contact me and let me know

CillKenny
04-11-2017, 09:51 AM
The Ydna definition is not Big Y but it at least gets most people to a subclade that you can investigate further with a yseq snp pack (for instance). I see there are some issues for particular individuals but FTDNA could not assign me to my y haplogroup until after I took the big Y. Living Dna also left me at the same level as the most expensive FTDNA test on Mtdna. So that alongside the geographic matching in the longer run - and the ability download autosomal dna files (when that utility is enabled) I think it is still one of the best in terms of value for money, albeit there is room to improve.

Robert McBride
04-13-2017, 11:55 PM
I contacted Living dna and their customer services told me that S588 is not on the chip. The phylogenetic tree has changed but it is now incorrectly showing R-S588, R-DF85,R-Y3644 and R-A259 as parallel to DF104 with DF106 above them and df109 below df104 instead of R-S588, R-DF85,R-Y3644 and R-A259 being below df104, df106 and df109.

razyn
04-14-2017, 01:34 AM
The marker was found by Jim Wilson in late 2012 when he sequenced the Lamonts and was named S658 by him.
It's kind of a digression from Living DNA, but, is that sort of information somehow public, somewhere? I'd dearly love to know whom Jim Wilson was sequencing when he found a good many other SNPs [in the S250 part of his data] that he made public in that Chromo2 2000 spreadsheet. The only one I recall having read about -- and it was because a paper was published, that was available on the web -- was S400, and a few of its equivalent or downstream SNPs, from the Bonesetter lineage.

MacUalraig
04-14-2017, 08:16 AM
It's kind of a digression from Living DNA, but, is that sort of information somehow public, somewhere? I'd dearly love to know whom Jim Wilson was sequencing when he found a good many other SNPs [in the S250 part of his data] that he made public in that Chromo2 2000 spreadsheet. The only one I recall having read about -- and it was because a paper was published, that was available on the web -- was S400, and a few of its equivalent or downstream SNPs, from the Bonesetter lineage.

It is in the case of M222 since Sandy Paterson-Lamont used to be a regular poster in the forum and gave us updates all along - his sequencing was completed by Wilson/Illumina in Dec 2012.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/dna-r1b1c7/2012-12/1354969626

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/dna-r1b1c7/2013-10/1382696731

I'm afraid I don't have specific info on any other haplogroups.

Robert McBride
04-14-2017, 11:22 AM
I contacted Living dna and their customer services told me that S588 is not on the chip. The phylogenetic tree has changed but it is now incorrectly showing R-S588, R-DF85,R-Y3644 and R-A259 as parallel to DF104 with DF106 above them and df109 below df104 instead of R-S588, R-DF85,R-Y3644 and R-A259 being below df104, df106 and df109.

Here's a screenshot of what the phylogenetic tree now looks like below M222.

15244

mancio78
04-26-2017, 12:20 PM
What do the percentages on the Living DNA Coverage Map refer to? My list of countries (and percentages) recently changed. Previously there were about five or six countries listed, but now there are 39 and the percentages are now very high – Wales has 92%! Does this mean that 92% of people in Wales share the same haplogroup (R-M269)?!

I seem to recall that before this list changed, Turkey and Spain were the highest ranked with 17% for Turkey and 10% for Spain. Turkey and Spain are now further down the list (15th, 8th), and Turkey is now higher than Spain.

Are my results broken or does this update make sense to anyone?

ollie444
05-04-2017, 10:31 AM
My coverage map has been updated. Don't know if yours looks like this now John?

15566

MacEochaidh
05-25-2017, 01:03 AM
Living DNA uses a chip that tests a generous 22,500 Y-SNPs. The first results have only recently started to come through, and the company has reported here, that these results are not finalised on the Y, that they still have some work to do on reporting Y-DNA haplogroups. They have not yet reported any Y for myself, my Living DNA portal still reports RESULTS PROCESSING.

I thought that it would be worthwhile starting a thread here, where we can report, compare, and discuss Y-DNA as reported to us by Living DNA.

I received my full results yesterday (Autosomal, Y-DNA, mtDNA), but tonight my results are gone and it reads "Results Processing" for Y-DNA and mtDNA. The Autosomal report read "You do not have this test". Has anyone ever seen this?

05-25-2017, 08:35 AM
I received my full results yesterday (Autosomal, Y-DNA, mtDNA), but tonight my results are gone and it reads "Results Processing" for Y-DNA and mtDNA. The Autosomal report read "You do not have this test". Has anyone ever seen this?

No my results have remained the same, since February.

05-25-2017, 08:38 AM
Deleted, not sensical.
:biggrin1:

A Norfolk L-M20
05-25-2017, 08:51 AM
I received my full results yesterday (Autosomal, Y-DNA, mtDNA), but tonight my results are gone and it reads "Results Processing" for Y-DNA and mtDNA. The Autosomal report read "You do not have this test". Has anyone ever seen this?

You quoted myself. In my case I had to kick them a few times with messages on Facebook. My test results were in the first big batch, submitted launch day. They did understandably have some launch problems. My Y-DNA totally threw them - and I've talked at the WDYTYA Live 2017 event, with their Head of Bioinformatics, that apologised for the mistake. They did at one point assign me to the wrong Y sub clade. If I hadn't have previously tested to Big Y, I would not have known. At the same event, I was also told that my results should soon be reassessed, as there were as we know, issues with that first batch. I'm still waiting.

I have mixed feelings about L-DNA. I do admire that they are trying new algorithms, computation, chip, and of course have a progressive attitude to the development of new, better population data sets. However, they can have some of the same issues as other older DNA testing businesses, such as not meeting targets. I was also under the impression that cautious and standard modes would be available by now.

sktibo
05-25-2017, 08:59 AM
You quoted myself. In my case I had to kick them a few times with messages on Facebook. My test results were in the first big batch, submitted launch day. They did understandably have some launch problems. My Y-DNA totally threw them - and I've talked at the WDYTYA Live 2017 event, with their Head of Bioinformatics, that apologised for the mistake. They did at one point assign me to the wrong Y sub clade. If I hadn't have previously tested to Big Y, I would not have known. At the same event, I was also told that my results should soon be reassessed, as there were as we know, issues with that first batch. I'm still waiting.

I have mixed feelings about L-DNA. I do admire that they are trying new algorithms, computation, chip, and of course have a progressive attitude to the development of new, better population data sets. However, they can have some of the same issues as other older DNA testing businesses, such as not meeting targets. I was also under the impression that cautious and standard modes would be available by now.

I second using Facebook to contact them, or as Norfolk put it, "kick". That's how I got my Y DNA line sorted which was also initially incorrect.

A Norfolk L-M20
05-25-2017, 09:13 AM
I think that one thing that we need to be aware of when dealing with any DNA-for-ancestry business, is that we are DNA junkies and ancestry enthusiasts. Although with our multiple testing (and reviewing), we should be important to them, we are most likely not at all representative of the average punter.

I did hear (I can't provide a reference) that the average DNA-for-ancestry customer is not a genealogist. It's becoming hip for younger people to take a DNA test, in order to find cool mixed ancestry. They're often the people that part with their cash in response to all of those ads on social networking and in the media.

By the way - I kick politely.

Solothurn
05-25-2017, 09:46 AM
I got U152 with no subclade.

So they missed my PF6658, Z193, Z40483, FGC30121, FGC30140, BY3847,S20550, BY3644.

ollie444
05-25-2017, 10:00 AM
You quoted myself. In my case I had to kick them a few times with messages on Facebook. My test results were in the first big batch, submitted launch day. They did understandably have some launch problems. My Y-DNA totally threw them - and I've talked at the WDYTYA Live 2017 event, with their Head of Bioinformatics, that apologised for the mistake. They did at one point assign me to the wrong Y sub clade. If I hadn't have previously tested to Big Y, I would not have known. At the same event, I was also told that my results should soon be reassessed, as there were as we know, issues with that first batch. I'm still waiting.

I have mixed feelings about L-DNA. I do admire that they are trying new algorithms, computation, chip, and of course have a progressive attitude to the development of new, better population data sets. However, they can have some of the same issues as other older DNA testing businesses, such as not meeting targets. I was also under the impression that cautious and standard modes would be available by now.

I think the problem here is just the size and budget of the company. We should try and be more patient and not slate them too much, but equally they should try and be more realistic with their dates.

Judith
05-29-2017, 07:13 AM
My brother's y DNA is I2a1a1 (M26).
As a girlie I know little about Y-DNA other than what I can read on Eupedia.
This one is nearly as rare as our mtDNA
Have LivingDNA got the calls on I right?
Who else is M26 on this forum?

JohnHowellsTyrfro
05-29-2017, 07:36 AM
I think that one thing that we need to be aware of when dealing with any DNA-for-ancestry business, is that we are DNA junkies and ancestry enthusiasts. Although with our multiple testing (and reviewing), we should be important to them, we are most likely not at all representative of the average punter.

I did hear (I can't provide a reference) that the average DNA-for-ancestry customer is not a genealogist. It's becoming hip for younger people to take a DNA test, in order to find cool mixed ancestry. They're often the people that part with their cash in response to all of those ads on social networking and in the media.

By the way - I kick politely.

Agree Norfolk. There tends to be an assumption that people who take DNA tests have an in-depth knowledge of history and the complexities of DNA - most don't and I include myself in that category.
It is sometimes a real struggle to understand what is going on, particularly when people communicate in a highly "academic" way on both subjects. Fine for the experts. OK people can learn (I'm trying) but I doubt the vast majority are prepared to put a great deal of effort and time into it.
I sometimes have the impression in some places (not so much here) that if you don't understand the "jargon" your DNA contribution isn't significant and that will be off-putting for many people. Moan for the day. :) John

JohnHowellsTyrfro
05-29-2017, 07:45 AM
My coverage map has been updated. Don't know if yours looks like this now John?

15566

Yes it does Ollie - but I'm assuming this is a U106 map rather than Z326 - specific?

There have been no changes to my Family Ancestry percentages I don't think. John

05-29-2017, 08:12 AM
Hi all,

Some of you might know I have been waiting to see if LivingDNA would update my Y results, as its still pretty much on the main backbone of the R1a Haplogrouping, since Living DNA have tested quite a large amount of SNPs, thought I would send an email to LivingDNA to ask if they would in time refine this further.
Here is my question to LivingDNA:-

Hi LivingDNA Team,

I have a question about the Fatherline result, my result has been tested to be "R-Z283"

I know that you have tested allot of SNP's on this silicon, so was wondering, since my given result is still pretty much on the backbone of the tree, if this might be refined further downstream?
e.g to "R-Z284", or to whatever result it is possible to show to the tested SNPs.
Thanks for a wonderful service, and please keep up the excellent work.

My Best Regards
Stephen Grant-Davies

Kiln
05-29-2017, 10:09 AM
They got L21 -> DF13 but did not get as far as DF41.

As compared to my YSEQ testing.

A Norfolk L-M20
05-29-2017, 10:36 AM
My Living DNA is incredibly"backbone". After initially offering me the wrong sub clade they backed it to M22, which is 23,000 years old. They give me L1. Can you imagine getting R1?

05-29-2017, 10:43 AM
My Living DNA is incredibly"backbone". After initially offering me the wrong sub clade they backed it to M22, which is 23,000 years old. They give me L1. Can you imagine getting R1?

Yeah, that would not have been impressive, once i get a reply from LivingDNA I will post response, if they have no intention of refining, then I might go for the Y test on ftdna.

Mike_G
05-29-2017, 03:57 PM
They did a good job on mine, and it was much more specific than 23andme and FTDNA before I had additional tests done there. Z-92, which according to Michal is a Baltic R1a subclade. The others gave me the basic R1a. I do like the British spin on the description:

Your marker is ancient and widespread, but is very rare in Britain and Ireland, where only around 2% of men share your marker. However, men who share your marker can be found in Norway, Iceland and along the shores of the North Sea, and this points to how your marker may have migrated to Britain and Ireland.

Or they could have left Lithuania on a ship and sailed to America in the 19th century. ;)

ajc347
05-29-2017, 06:03 PM
I think part of the issue with some of the Living DNA results may well be related to the number of SNP's they test for on the chip. Whilst I understand that they test for more SNP's than other companies that use a chip, there are some clear limitations to the SNP's they test for.

They gave my result as L151 and later confirmed that tests for P312, U106 and S1200 were negative.

They have also confirmed that they don't test for A8051 and S1194 and I later asked them to confirm whether they test for A8039, A8040, A8041, & A8045. I received a very quick response informing me that the bioinformatics department is unavailable until the end of June (hence they couldn't answer the question). I presume that this is due to the demands of processing the current batch of tests.

So far YSEQ have confirmed the L151 result and have also indicted that I am A8051 negative. I'm awaiting the results of S1194 and A8039 from YSEQ and this will hopefully help to place me further down the tree.

It's disappointing that the raw data is still not available, especially given that the marketing literature mentioned nothing about it being a future addition to the service when i purchased the test.

It would certainly have helped to have known exactly what SNP's they tested for when I received my results and would have made trying to pin down a positive SNP result downstream of L151 a much easier process.

angscoire
05-29-2017, 06:29 PM
[[email protected];239878]Yeah, that would not have been impressive, once i get a reply from LivingDNA I will post response, if they have no intention of refining, then I might go for the Y test on ftdna.[/QUOTE}

sgdavies ..... If they aren't upgrading soon ,you could probably get away with just taking the Y37 test at FTDNA . From your matches you will likely get strong hints at what your subclade is (unless it's a rare type) , and for even greater clarification join the FTDNA R1a group and you will be assigned to your predicted subclade (they are almost always accurate, and honest with their advice) , and then you can test for individual SNP's if neccessary ,or upgrade to Y67 if your predicted subclade isn't clear.

05-29-2017, 06:43 PM
[[email protected];239878]Yeah, that would not have been impressive, once i get a reply from LivingDNA I will post response, if they have no intention of refining, then I might go for the Y test on ftdna.[/QUOTE}

sgdavies ..... If they aren't upgrading soon ,you could probably get away with just taking the Y37 test at FTDNA . From your matches you will likely get strong hints at what your subclade is (unless it's a rare type) , and for even greater clarification join the FTDNA R1a group and you will be assigned to your predicted subclade (they are almost always accurate, and honest with their advice) , and then you can test for individual SNP's if neccessary ,or upgrade to Y67 if your predicted subclade isn't clear.

Thanks Angscoire, I probably will do that shortly.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
05-29-2017, 07:45 PM
[QUOTE=angscoire;240021]

Thanks Angscoire, I probably will do that shortly.

Usually a sale around Christmas, unless you are in a hurry. I eventually bit the bullet and did the 67 marker test, sort of a compromise, but now because of what I found, I'm probably going to have to do Big Y because I have something specific to follow-up. John

05-31-2017, 02:55 PM
Hi all,

Some of you might know I have been waiting to see if LivingDNA would update my Y results, as its still pretty much on the main backbone of the R1a Haplogrouping, since Living DNA have tested quite a large amount of SNPs, thought I would send an email to LivingDNA to ask if they would in time refine this further.
Here is my question to LivingDNA:-

Hi LivingDNA Team,

I have a question about the Fatherline result, my result has been tested to be "R-Z283"

I know that you have tested allot of SNP's on this silicon, so was wondering, since my given result is still pretty much on the backbone of the tree, if this might be refined further downstream?
e.g to "R-Z284", or to whatever result it is possible to show to the tested SNPs.
Thanks for a wonderful service, and please keep up the excellent work.

My Best Regards
Stephen Grant-Davies

Ok so today I got the response from LivingDNA, i'm a little bit disappointed with it to be honest, as they repeated allot what I already knew. Here is their response to my email above.

**************************************
Hi *******,

Thank you for your enquiry.

The detail of your results will depend on which of the markers that we test for end up positive for your DNA sample. Our markers have been chosen to provide better representation in a wider range of global populations. Our custom Orion chip looks at roughly 20,000 SNP locations on the Y chromosome.

In order to give a better subclade, we'd have to redesign our chip markers. As this would be a very costly and time-consuming project, unfortunately we are not planning to do this in the foreseeable future.

Don't hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

Warm Regards, *******

*************

*********
*****************************************

jonathanmcg1990
05-31-2017, 03:56 PM
I got i1 in my halogroup for my Y results am i right i should be expecting more because i got more information in my mtdna results.

JMcB
05-31-2017, 04:07 PM
I got i1 in my halogroup for my Y results am i right i should be expecting more because i got more information in my mtdna results.

Hello Jonathan,

I couldn't help but notice your I1 call and immediately thought it looked a little sparse. I'm also I1 and fall under Z140 as you do and they took me all the way down to S2169/F2642. Admittedly, they're pretty far upstream from my BigY results of I-Y7198/Y3647 but still fairly good for a test like this.

Perhaps, they'll refine it soon. If not I would ask them about it.

Pylsteen
05-31-2017, 04:14 PM
I got i1 in my halogroup for my Y results am i right i should be expecting more because i got more information in my mtdna results.

I remember reading by some people it was slightly refined in the week(s) after their results came in, but I'm not sure.

Dewsloth
05-31-2017, 04:19 PM
I'm pretty sure Dad's results still just say "DF19" but at least it got that far. I'd be happier if all the text information they supplied was more oriented toward DF19 and not just what looks like generic P312 info.

Edit: Or at least a "So far ### out of ### samples are DF19 and they are distributed like this" graphic. They wouldn't have to redo their chip for that.

MacUalraig
05-31-2017, 04:41 PM
Hello Jonathan,

I couldn't help but notice your I1 call and immediately thought it looked a little sparse. I'm also I1 and fall under Z140 as you do and they took me all the way down to S2169/F2642. Admittedly, they're pretty far upstream from my BigY results of I-Y7198/Y3647 but still fairly good for a test like this.

Perhaps, they'll refine it soon. If not I would ask them about it.

I've sent the CEO my thoughts on what they are doing so far with Y calls. Let's not forget S2169 was on Chromo2 in 2013. It seems reasonable to expect somewhat more detail due to advances, without asking for the earth (like all novel variants found in the last 4 years...).

Loderingo
05-31-2017, 05:07 PM
My father's Y came back DF13, which is one level above my known subclade FGC5494. I would be quite happy with that if I hadn't already done any Y testing

JMcB
06-01-2017, 01:26 AM
I've sent the CEO my thoughts on what they are doing so far with Y calls. Let's not forget S2169 was on Chromo2 in 2013. It seems reasonable to expect somewhat more detail due to advances, without asking for the earth (like all novel variants found in the last 4 years...).

To be honest, I wasn't expecting very much when it came to their Y & Mt calls. I figured it was going to be very basic. Though certainly not as basic as Jonathan's plain old I1. Be that as it may, I'll be interested in hearing what he has to say.

deadly77
06-01-2017, 03:19 AM
I'm also Z140 and LivingDNA gave me I-Z2535. I've confirmed Z2535+ and L338+ at YSEQ. Like JMcB, I am surprised by your YDNA results at LivingDNA just being I1.

06-01-2017, 10:43 AM
[[email protected];239878]Yeah, that would not have been impressive, once i get a reply from LivingDNA I will post response, if they have no intention of refining, then I might go for the Y test on ftdna.[/QUOTE}

sgdavies ..... If they aren't upgrading soon ,you could probably get away with just taking the Y37 test at FTDNA . From your matches you will likely get strong hints at what your subclade is (unless it's a rare type) , and for even greater clarification join the FTDNA R1a group and you will be assigned to your predicted subclade (they are almost always accurate, and honest with their advice) , and then you can test for individual SNP's if neccessary ,or upgrade to Y67 if your predicted subclade isn't clear.

hi angscoire, I have just ordered the Y37 kit, as LDNA said they would not be refining their Y result. So watch this space, I guess it will take a few months to complete or?

jonathanmcg1990
06-01-2017, 02:27 PM
Yes I do feel it's very basic I have halogroup for my mt DNA halogroup and U5B2B3A1. I have no more to say other than I have message living DNA about it and no response.

angscoire
06-01-2017, 05:21 PM
[QUOTE=angscoire;240021]

hi angscoire, I have just ordered the Y37 kit, as LDNA said they would not be refining their Y result. So watch this space, I guess it will take a few months to complete or?

That's good news . Results shouldn't take too long , maybe several weeks. I would hope that you get some fairly close matches at the Y37 level (distance of 4/37 at least), and that some of these matches have tested snips or taken the BigY so you can see what clade you likely belong to just by comparing results ; regardless of the results - join the FTDNA R1a group straightaway (I know I keep going on about this , but for you this is crucial) and take it from there.
You may have to upgrade to Y67 at some point if it proves difficult to predict your clade at 37 STR's , or take a SNP Pack if your clade prediction is obvious and you want a more refined result (eg Z284 Pack ). But the guys at the R1a group (namely Michal) will advise you on that. As you are a British Z283 then you likely belong to either Z280 or Z284 . I'd be very surprised if you didn't. However , you never know how things will pan out ( part of the fun of course) !

jonathanmcg1990
06-02-2017, 03:07 PM
Are living DNA thubbing me off.

On my y DNA I have only got my halo-group i have no subslade is this right?

Living DNA response

Haplogroup assignment, which is your "branch" of the human family tree, from your father's side. You will share an ancient (10s of thousands of years ago) ancestor with everyone who shares your haplogroup. ​Again, the percentages show you where in the world your paternal haplogroup is most prevalent. The subclade detail of your results will depend on which of the markers that we test for end up positive for your DNA sample.

MacUalraig
06-02-2017, 03:30 PM
The wording suggests the testing isn't complete?

rod
06-02-2017, 03:32 PM
Are living DNA thubbing me off.

On my y DNA I have only got my halo-group i have no subslade is this right?



They're thumbing us all off. They won't give us download data or tell us what Y snps they're testing. They gave me an R subclade upstream from the R-P312 I got at 23andme 10 years ago. Without information about coverage the test is garbage. >:(

06-02-2017, 03:36 PM
The wording suggests the testing isn't complete?

MacUalraig, they told me they will not be refining the Y subclades any further, sadly, because of this I decided to do the ftdna "Y-DNA37"

MacUalraig
06-02-2017, 04:20 PM
MacUalraig, they told me they will not be refining the Y subclades any further, sadly, because of this I decided to do the ftdna "Y-DNA37"

Sorry I should have quoted the bit of jonathan's post, or rather the lab's statement to him, that I was commenting on:
"The subclade detail of your results will depend on which of the markers that we test for end up positive for your DNA sample."

That kind of read like they were at some stage going deeper at least for him (?). But maybe I'm reading too much into the precise wording.

MacUalraig
06-02-2017, 04:24 PM
They're thumbing us all off. They won't give us download data or tell us what Y snps they're testing. They gave me an R subclade upstream from the R-P312 I got at 23andme 10 years ago. Without information about coverage the test is garbage. >:(

I believe the chip they are using can test 700,000 SNPs. Certainly if I was designing it I would have gone for several times the number of Y SNPs they seem to have gone with, surely without great impact on the admixture aspects.

JMcB
06-02-2017, 05:16 PM
MacUalraig, they told me they will not be refining the Y subclades any further, sadly, because of this I decided to do the ftdna "Y-DNA37"

Hello sgdavies,

I know you know this but don't forget to join the appropriate Haplogroup Project. Frankly, I've learned far more from my I-Z140 Project Administrator than I have from anyone else. He took one look at my 67 marker results and told me I should test for Y3649. When I finally got around to taking my BigY test a year later, I split the L234 branch and formed a new one (Y3647) just below Y3649. (Since then a new branch < A5790 > has formed just above me)

So he was spot on. He was also the one who explained the implications of my BigY results to me. Which was good because FTDNA isn't very helpful in that regard

16531

So at the end of the day, you'll probably learn more from you Project Administrator than you will from anyone else.

simdadams
06-02-2017, 05:17 PM
Sorry I should have quoted the bit of jonathan's post, or rather the lab's statement to him, that I was commenting on:
"The subclade detail of your results will depend on which of the markers that we test for end up positive for your DNA sample."

That kind of read like they were at some stage going deeper at least for him (?). But maybe I'm reading too much into the precise wording.

Mine was put me at R-M269 and sub R-L151



They redid my Y and I now have a subclass of CTS2501 which is good , my Big Y take me a bit deeper to MC21 but before that FTDNA had me at CTS2501


maybe they have programmed the chip for the more common branches?

Robert McBride
06-11-2017, 07:40 PM
My Living dna raw data files have been made available to download. The Y chromosome file only includes snps that you have tested positive for.
There is a disclaimer that says the results are subject to change " as further validation of Living DNA Orion chip takes place".

A Norfolk L-M20
06-11-2017, 08:36 PM
Eight months after ordering, four months after initial results. Where has it taken my Y-DNA test?

I'm a Big Y tester, with analysis on FGC and Yfull, so before I tested, I knew pretty much everything that I could know about my Y-DNA. It's very exotic (especially for a NW European) L-M20 (L), +M22 (L1), +M317 (L1b), +SK1412 (L1b2), +SK1414 (L1b2c) +FGC51036 (L1b2c I haven't got a clue as I'm the only one so far). But I wanted to test Living DNA and their new chip , that is suppose to be so generous with Y SNPs (22,500 - that's 10 x 23andMe V4)

I had high hopes of Living DNA getting it down to at least L1b. Even 23andMe, with their aging chip, got it to that - although as I'm still on Old Experience, they give me ISOGG 2007 L2*. But they tested M317. I wanted Living DNA and the new chip to perhaps better it, maybe even L1b2?

Nope.

After pestering them for a test result, they eventually offered me a crap and totally untrue route: L-M20 - M2481 - L1307 - M2398! That is L1a2a, a radically different clade to my L1b2c. If I had not known better - I'd have sucked it in!

When I pointed out their error, and pestered them further, they admitted a mistake, and retracted it to L1 (L-M22). That is 18,600 years old.

Imagine - that they give you a Y haplotype that is 18,600 years old - dating to the Upper Palaeolothic before the Late Glacial Maximum. They gave me the impression that it was a temporary glitch. At the WDYTYA 2017 Event, again, I got the impression that my Y, and my "first batch" Family Ancestry was going to soon be revised.

It hasn't happened. I cannot endorse Living DNA any more. I am going to start to be critical of the business.

Goodman
06-11-2017, 08:43 PM
I have a friend who's keen on knowing his Y DNA subclade but doesn't want to go down the FTDNA route of getting marker tests then SNP tests or big Y, he can then also see his regional British ancestry. His haplogroup on 23andMe is R1b1b2a1a - now known as R1b1a2 or something like that? I think this means he's P312- possibly. Can this test give an accurate Y DNA designation for him regarding furthering his 23andMe Y DNA result?

deadly77
06-11-2017, 08:49 PM
Hello sgdavies,

I know you know this but don't forget to join the appropriate Haplogroup Project. Frankly, I've learned far more from my I-Z140 Project Administrator than I have from anyone else. He took one look at my 67 marker results and told me I should test for Y3649. When I finally got around to taking my BigY test a year later, I split the L234 branch and formed a new one (Y3647) just below Y3649. (Since then a new branch < A5790 > has formed just above me)

So he was spot on. He was also the one who explained the implications of my BigY results to me. Which was good because FTDNA isn't very helpful in that regard

16531

So at the end of the day, you'll probably learn more from you Project Administrator than you will from anyone else.

I'll second that. I'm also in the I1-Z140 project and the administrator for that project is really great - very knowledgeable and helpful.

MacUalraig
06-11-2017, 09:03 PM
My Living dna raw data files have been made available to download. The Y chromosome file only includes snps that you have tested positive for.
There is a disclaimer that says the results are subject to change " as further validation of Living DNA Orion chip takes place".

We'd love to see your list of Y SNPs :-)

ArmandoR1b
06-11-2017, 09:31 PM
I have a friend who's keen on knowing his Y DNA subclade but doesn't want to go down the FTDNA route of getting marker tests then SNP tests or big Y, he can then also see his regional British ancestry. His haplogroup on 23andMe is R1b1b2a1a - now known as R1b1a2 or something like that? I think this means he's P312- possibly. Can this test give an accurate Y DNA designation for him regarding furthering his 23andMe Y DNA result?

In the old experience at 23andme R1b1b2a1a is defined by L52 which is s13304168 C->T and phylogenetically equivalent to L11/S127, L151, P310/S129, P311/S128

That means he is negative for U106, L21 and U152. He is possibly positive for P312 and LivingDNA most likely tests it since they definitely do test SNPs downstream from P312. However, his best route for the Y-DNA is the YSEQ R1b Orientation Panel (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=16349) then if positive for DF27 the DF27 SNP panel (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=10749).

Goodman
06-11-2017, 10:16 PM
In the old experience at 23andme R1b1b2a1a is defined by L52 which is s13304168 C->T and phylogenetically equivalent to L11/S127, L151, P310/S129, P311/S128

That means he is negative for U106, L21 and U152. He is possibly positive for P312 and LivingDNA most likely tests it since they definitely do test SNPs downstream from P312. However, his best route for the Y-DNA is the YSEQ R1b Orientation Panel (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=16349) then if positive for DF27 the DF27 SNP panel (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=10749).
I'd forgotten all about YSEQ, it seems to be the best value when testing solely Y-DNA. I'll let him know his options now that I know the best places to look. It seems to be of interest at the moment with the recent BB paper out. Thanks very much for the informative answer.

JMcB
06-11-2017, 11:52 PM
Eight months after ordering, four months after initial results. Where has it taken my Y-DNA test?

I'm a Big Y tester, with analysis on FGC and Yfull, so before I tested, I knew pretty much everything that I could know about my Y-DNA. It's very exotic (especially for a NW European) L-M20 (L), +M22 (L1), +M317 (L1b), +SK1412 (L1b2), +SK1414 (L1b2c) +FGC51036 (L1b2c I haven't got a clue as I'm the only one so far). But I wanted to test Living DNA and their new chip , that is suppose to be so generous with Y SNPs (22,500 - that's 10 x 23andMe V4)

I had high hopes of Living DNA getting it down to at least L1b. Even 23andMe, with their aging chip, got it to that - although as I'm still on Old Experience, they give me ISOGG 2007 L2*. But they tested M317. I wanted Living DNA and the new chip to perhaps better it, maybe even L1b2?

Nope.

After pestering them for a test result, they eventually offered me a crap and totally untrue route: L-M20 - M2481 - L1307 - M2398! That is L1a2a, a radically different clade to my L1b2c. If I had not known better - I'd have sucked it in!

When I pointed out their error, and pestered them further, they admitted a mistake, and retracted it to L1 (L-M22). That is 18,600 years old.

Imagine - that they give you a Y haplotype that is 18,600 years old - dating to the Upper Palaeolothic before the Late Glacial Maximum. They gave me the impression that it was a temporary glitch. At the WDYTYA 2017 Event, again, I got the impression that my Y, and my "first batch" Family Ancestry was going to soon be revised.

It hasn't happened. I cannot endorse Living DNA any more. I am going to start to be critical of the business.

Considering all of the above, I can certainly understand why you feel that way!

rod
06-12-2017, 12:40 AM
I cannot endorse Living DNA any more. I am going to start to be critical of the business.

I got my results at the end of January and still no downloadable data. Lousy mtdna and ydna results. Without the raw data we don't know if the bad results are in the coverage of the chip, no calls, or just poor interpretation. >:(

Update: I just downloaded what they call "raw data" "(fatherline list of positive snps)". If this is it the Y coverage is awful or I have numerous no calls.

Robert McBride
06-12-2017, 10:31 AM
We'd love to see your list of Y SNPs :-)

I don't know how to copy the list of snps off the spreadsheet program so I can post them.

I tried to send you a private message but your inbox is full.

Pylsteen
06-12-2017, 11:49 AM
They assigned me R-U152. No subclade given. I'm trying to figure out if the raw data may give more information. Difficult, since they only show positive SNP's; therefore I don't know whether they tested me negative or not for other SNP's. I don't see L2 or Z56, but I do see a positive result for S484/Z48; this may not mean anything, though.

MacUalraig
06-12-2017, 12:13 PM
With Robert's permission these are the Y SNP positive calls - key ones Z2961, M222, DF104, DF109... doesn't seem to have S588 by any name which was on Chromo2.

AM00847/AMM008/B65
AM01921.2/S475.2/Z2983.2
CTS10083
CTS10085/M1250/PF5948
CTS10149/PF6490/V3993
CTS10168/M1149
CTS10362/M5770
CTS10663/M788
CTS10834
CTS10946/M5804
CTS11468/PF6520
CTS11948/PF6522/PF6522
CTS11985/PF6523
CTS12028/M1272/PF5977
CTS1217/M5597
CTS125/M5576
CTS1274/FGC34/PF6422
CTS1738/FGC55/PF6449
CTS196/PF5845
CTS1996/M5651
CTS2134
CTS2664/PF6454
CTS2908/M666/PF6123
CTS3123/M670
CTS3135/M1206/PF5898
CTS3199/M5455/PF1649
CTS3229/M672/PF6036/YSC0001265
CTS3358/M1210/PF5900
CTS3460/M5670
CTS3475/PF6456/V2714
CTS3622/PF6037
CTS3941/CTS3941/PF2135/PF2135
CTS4076/Z1011
CTS4244/PF6257/YSC0001279
CTS4443/M3696/PF2677
CTS4944/M1218/PF5909
CTS5418/M1222/PF5912
CTS543/M5584
CTS5577/PF6464
CTS5808/M1226/PF5915
CTS5815/M696
CTS5884/M1228/PF5917
CTS6135/M3708/PF2693
CTS623/PF6419
CTS6800/M5713
CTS6948/M1231/PF5922
CTS7604/M1235/PF5928
CTS7659/FGC50/PF6470
CTS7904/PF6471
CTS7941/PF6472
CTS8221/Z2542
CTS8243/M5736
CTS8436/PF6259
CTS8591
CTS8612/PF6260
CTS8626/M1239/PF5934
CTS8627/PF6478
CTS8665/PF6479
CTS8728/L1063/PF6480/S13
CTS894/PF6420/YSC0001293
CTS9005/M741
CTS9018/PF6484
CTS9162/L1185/M1241/PF5937
CTS9458/M5753
CTS9679
CTS9722/M5762
CTS9972/PF6261
DF104/S661
DF109/S660
E101/M12191/Y1271
F102/M625/PF6116
F1046/M3646/PF2610/YSC0001295
F1381/PF4520
F154/M636
F1704/M3675/PF2651
F1714/F1714/M3677/PF2653/PF2653
F1767/M3683/PF2660
F1794/PF6455
F1857/P337/PF5901/Page83
F2075/PF2685
F2837/M3726/PF2722
F29/L821/M5579/PF5857
F295/M685
F2993/M3737/PF2732/V3940
F313/M1219
F33/M603/PF6013
F332/M1224/PF5914
F3335/M3754/PF2758
F3424/M1489
F344/M1227/PF5916
F356/M703/PF5919
F359/M1229/PF5920
F3689/M2682/PF3495/Y2571
F3692/M3650
F370/M708/Y479
F3703
F459/Y482
F47/M607/Y472
F506/M1243/PF5940
F524/M1248/PF5945
F536/M1251/PF5949
F63/M614/PF6016
F640/M1271/PF5975
F671/M1274/PF5981
F69/L773/PF6421/YSC0000276
F83/M1185/PF5861
F847
F91/PF5862/V231
F93/M621/PF6114
FGC33/PF6469
FGC41/M12190/Y108
IMS-JST022455
L1009
L11/PF6539/S127
L1345/PF6266/YSC0000224
L1347/M792/PF6077/YSC0000233
L1348/PF6521/YSC0000238
L1350/PF6505/YSC0000225
L1351/PF6528/YSC0000240
L1353/PF6489/YSC0000294
L15/M523/PF3492/S137
L16/M522/PF3493/S138
L21/M529/S145
L248.3/M705.3
L265/PF6431
L407/PF6252
L468/M3703/PF2689
L482/PF6427
L483
L500/PF6481
L502/PF6487
L506/PF6267
L51/M412/PF6536/S167
L58
L726
L747/M702/PF5918/YSC0000287
L752/PF6483
L754/PF6269/YSC0000022
L757/PF6488/V3721/YSC0000293
L760/M642/PF5877/YSC0000286
L761/PF6258/YSC0000266
L768/PF5976/YSC0000274
L779/PF5907/YSC0000251
L781/PF5875/YSC0000255
L82/PF5972
L820/PF6262/YSC0000211
L822/PF6247/YSC0000075
L875/M706/PF6131/YSC0000288
L882/M3749/PF2745
L963
L970/PF1065
M10372.1/ZS6696.1
M1109
M1160/PF5958
M1186/PF5864
M1187/PF5865
M1188/PF5869
M1190/PF5871
M1192/PF5872
M1199/PF5886
M1216/PF5908
M1221/P331/PF5911
M1240/PF5936
M1259/PF5956
M1260/PF5957
M1264
M1265/PF5965
M173/P241/Page29
M207/Page37/UTY2
M213/P137/PF2673/Page38
M222/Page84/USP9Y+3636
M2684/PF3497/YSC0001319
M269/PF6517
M2696/PF3500
M299
M306/PF6147/S1
M343/PF6242
M3637/PF2589/V186
M3639/PF2591
M3751/PF2748
M415/PF6251
M45/PF5962
M5577/PF1413/V189
M5691/PF779
M5695/PF1417/V41
M5717/PF844
M5737/PF892
M5747
M5788
M5809/PF1237
M5822
M734/PF6057/S4/YSC0000201
M74/N12/PF5963
M760/Y506
M764/PF5953
M799
M8956
M8961
M8980
M8986
M8999
M9009
M9015
M9017
M9020
M9025
M9026
M9028
M9032
M9034
M9037
M9038
M9042
M9045
M9054
M9056
M9064
M9066
M9156
M9169
M9215
M9231
M9237
M9252
M9261
M9280
M9286
M9288/PF985
M9292
M9293
M9295
M9316/PF1034
M9317
M9328/PF1053
M9341
M9348
M9380
M9387
M9405
M9406
P105/P105
P128/PF5504
P131/PF5493
P132/PF5480
P135/PF2741
P139
P140
P149
P160/PF2618
P187/PF2632
P224/PF6050
P225
P226/PF5879
P228/PF5927
P229/PF6019
P230/PF5925
P232
P233
P235/PF5946
P236
P237/PF5873
P238/PF6115
P239/PF5930
P242/PF6113
P243/PF5874
P244/PF5896
P245/PF6117
P280
P281/PF5941
P282/PF5932
P283/PF5966
P284
P285
P295/PF5866/S8
P297/PF6398
P310/PF6546/S129
P311/PF6545/S128
P84.1
PF1096
PF5938
PF5982
PF6249
PF6263
PF6265
PF6270
PF6271
PF6272
PF6399/S10
PF6409
PF6425
PF6426
PF6429
PF6430
PF6432
PF6434
PF6435
PF6451
PF6466/YSC0000194
PF6482/YSC0000203
PF6485/S3
PF6495
PF6497/YSC0000219
PF6498
PF6500
PF6506
PF6507
PF6524
PF6543/S1159/YSC0000191
PF7372
S349.1
S476/Z2976
S484/Z48
S637/Z2970
SRY10831.1
V153
V1580/Z3965
Y1210
Z11010
Z11910
Z11916
Z12981
Z1759
Z18049.2
Z1853
Z19760
Z21721
Z2961
Z3225
Z3339.2
Z40386
Z40389
Z40393
Z40394
Z40395
Z4145/Z4147

jonathanmcg1990
06-12-2017, 02:14 PM
Hi livingDNA breakdown this means nothing to me as i said in a previous results all I have is i1. Could help me make sense of this.

AM01921.2/S475.2/Z2983.2
CTS10058
CTS10083
CTS10140/Z2837
CTS10338
CTS10362/M5770
CTS109/M8948
CTS11036/Z2863
CTS11042/S66
CTS11091/Z2865
CTS11126/Z2866
CTS11441
CTS11526/Z2870
CTS11534/Z2871
CTS11783/Z2876
CTS11827/M5816
CTS11838/Z2879
CTS11950/Z2880
CTS11979/PF3878
CTS1217/M5597
CTS125/M5576
CTS136/Z2679
CTS1393/Z2708
CTS1748/Z2749
CTS1755/Z2750
CTS1800/PF3699
CTS1996/M5651
CTS209/V1092/Z2680
CTS2193/PF3703
CTS2229/PF6254
CTS2375/Z2754
CTS2410/Z2755
CTS2514/PF3706
CTS2536/PF3707
CTS2644/Z2757
CTS2970/Z2760
CTS3268/Z2762
CTS3460/M5670
CTS3474/V2712/Z2764
CTS3506/Z2765
CTS3517/PF3719/V2740
CTS3641/PF3722
CTS3941/CTS3941/PF2135/PF2135
CTS4076/Z1011
CTS4077/PF3725
CTS4239/PF3727
CTS4272/PF3728
CTS4273/PF3729
CTS4295/Z2771
CTS4327/Z2772
CTS4340/PF3730
CTS4443/M3696/PF2677
CTS4656/Z2779
CTS4752/PF3735
CTS48/PF3569
CTS4848/FI7/PF3736
CTS4982/PF3737
CTS5150/PF3739
CTS5318/M5690
CTS543/M5584
CTS5513/Z2787
CTS5650/PF3744
CTS5705/Z2791
CTS5908/PF3747
CTS5946/PF3748
CTS5993/Z2794
CTS6109/Z2798
CTS6135/M3708/PF2693
CTS6140/Z2799
CTS6203
CTS6221/Z2802
CTS6231/PF3750
CTS6252/M5700
CTS6265/PF3871
CTS6343/PF3753
CTS6349/FGC1575
CTS6395/Z2803
CTS641/Z2702
CTS646/PF3629
CTS6497/PF3756
CTS674/FI1/PF3630
CTS6751/PF3757
CTS6932/FGC1565
CTS7121/Z2808
CTS7267/Z2809
CTS7329
CTS733/Z2703
CTS7469
CTS7477/Z2811
CTS7502/PF3760
CTS7507/FGC1576
CTS7540/PF3761
CTS7593/PF3763
CTS7751/Z2813
CTS7933/M5728
CTS8064/PF3768
CTS8148
CTS8243/M5736
CTS8300/PF3770
CTS8333/PF3771
CTS8394/Z2818
CTS8545/PF3775
CTS8742/PF3776
CTS88/PF3571
CTS8876/PF3778
CTS8963
CTS9010/Z2824
CTS9014/M5750
CTS9264/PF3782
CTS9288/Z2826
CTS9368/Z2827
CTS9458/M5753
CTS9484/PF3785
CTS9518/Z2831
CTS9556/M5758
CTS9679
CTS9722/M5762
F1046/M3646/PF2610/YSC0001295
F1167/PF4516/YSC0001296
F1320/M3657/PF2621
F1381/PF4520
F1450/FGC1583/YSC0001300
F1460
F1704/M3675/PF2651
F1714/F1714/M3677/PF2653/PF2653
F1767/M3683/PF2660
F2075/PF2685
F2142/PF2688
F2211
F2345/FGC1577
F2366/FGC1584
F2434
F2837/M3726/PF2722
F2993/M3737/PF2732/V3940
F3033.1/F3033.2/M1443.1/M1443.2/V4056.1/V4056.2/Z2838.1/Z2838.2
F3335/M3754/PF2758
F3358/PF4611/YSC0001316
F3368/PF3566/YSC0001317
F3402/S2
F3424/M1489
F3629/PF3568
F3689/M2682/PF3495/Y2571
F3692/M3650
F3703
F4188/PF3539/V3028
F4281/P123/PF3554
F847
F929/M578/PF3494/S6378
FGC1566/P126/P126
FGC1573/L403
FGC1587/Y1866
FGC2412/Y1909
FGC2416/S10441/Y1865
FGC2427/Z2713
FGC2432/V1339/Z2712
FGC2439/Z2711
FI3/L756/PF3662/YSC0000284
IMS-JST022455
L1009
L118
L1197/PF3718/YSC0000260
L121/S62
L123
L124/S64
L125/S65
L15/M523/PF3492/S137
L157.1
L16/M522/PF3493/S138
L468/M3703/PF2689
L503
L575/V4059/Z2839
L726
L740/V3959/YSC0000296/Z2836
L748/PF3546/YSC0000289
L755/PF3659/YSC0000283
L758/PF3663/YSC0000285
L772/PF3731/YSC0000263
L80
L81
L841/YSC0000257/Z2751
L842/YSC0000264/Z2789
L845/S110/YSC0000278
L846/PF3646/YSC0000280
L847/PF3841/YSC0000298
L882/M3749/PF2745
L963
L970/PF1065
M10372.1/ZS6696.1
M11760
M170/PF3715
M213/P137/PF2673/Page38
M251/M9122
M253
M258/PF3721
M2684/PF3497/YSC0001319
M2696/PF3500
M299
M307.1/M307.2/P203.1/P203.2
M3637/PF2589/V186
M3639/PF2591
M3751/PF2748
M3752/PF2749
M429/P125/PF3535
M450/S109
M5577/PF1413/V189
M5590
M5608/PF258
M5642
M5650
M5682
M5691/PF779
M5695/PF1417/V41
M5708
M5717/PF844
M5737/PF892
M5738
M5747
M5760
M5781/PF1040
M5788
M5809/PF1237
M5819
M5822
M8952
M8956
M8959
M8961
M8980
M8983
M8986
M8999
M9009
M9011
M9015
M9017
M9020
M9025
M9026
M9028
M9032
M9034
M9037
M9038
M9042
M9045
M9054
M9056
M9057
M9064
M9066
M9110
M9115
M9129
M9156
M9169
M9194.3
M9200
M9215
M9218
M9223
M9231
M9237
M9246
M9248
M9252
M9253
M9257
M9261
M9280
M9283
M9286
M9288/PF985
M9292
M9293
M9295
M9316/PF1034
M9317
M9318
M9328/PF1053
M9338
M9341
M9348
M9349
M9356
M9359
M9380
M9387
M9405
M9406
P105/P105
P124/PF3553
P127/PF3526
P130/PF3525/S22
P135/PF2741
P139
P140
P149
P160/PF2618
P161
P187/PF2632
P30
P84.1
PF1016
PF1096
PF2608
PF3560
PF3562
PF3640
PF3642
PF3649
PF3654
PF3661
PF3665
PF3666
PF3677
PF3759/YSC0000267
PF3794
PF3800
PF3803
PF3806
PF3807
PF3811
PF3815
PF3819
PF3837
PF3847/YSC0000300
PF6250
PF7372
Page123/Page123/Z2763
S107
S108
S111/Y1868
S22685/Z2845
S484/Z48
SRY10831.1
V1423/Z2717
V153
V1580/Z3965
V1771/Z2724
V2264/Z2728
YSC0000256.1/YSC0000256.2
YSC0000272
YSC0000301/Z2882
Z11010
Z11892
Z11910
Z11916
Z16986/ZS2286
Z1759
Z18049.2
Z1853
Z19760
Z21721
Z2719
Z2729
Z2736
Z2737
Z2842
Z2843
Z2844
Z2848
Z2850
Z2851
Z2855
Z2857
Z2861
Z2862
Z3225
Z3339.2
Z40386
Z40387
Z40389
Z40392
Z40393
Z40394
Z40395
Z4145/Z4147

Pylsteen
06-12-2017, 03:02 PM
I sent them a mail regarding the fact that they didn't assign me to a subclade of U152; I asked them if I tested negative for subclades or that they did not test subclades. We'll see.

MacUalraig
06-12-2017, 03:46 PM
Jonathan, there isn't anything difficult to tackle, all you need to do is get stuck into the Y tree (eg ISOGG, YFull etc) and look them up. Some of those are quite well known eg M170 which defines hg I,M429 defines the paragroup IJ just above the I-J split and so on. Its much more fun to do that than wait for someone else to do it for you... IMHO :-)

https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNATreeTrunk.html

for the main trunk and https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html for the hg I detail. Some of them may be higher up than that.

Dewsloth
06-12-2017, 04:09 PM
I would really like to know what they are basing this graphic and the percentages on. It really doesn't seem to mesh with anything I've ever seen either for P312 or DF19:

16800


:boink::suspicious:

jdean
06-12-2017, 04:31 PM
With Robert's permission these are the Y SNP positive calls - key ones Z2961, M222, DF104, DF109... doesn't seem to have S588 by any name which was on Chromo2.

AM00847/AMM008/B65
AM01921.2/S475.2/Z2983.2
CTS10083
CTS10085/M1250/PF5948
CTS10149/PF6490/V3993
CTS10168/M1149
CTS10362/M5770
CTS10663/M788
CTS10834
CTS10946/M5804
CTS11468/PF6520
CTS11948/PF6522/PF6522
CTS11985/PF6523
CTS12028/M1272/PF5977
CTS1217/M5597
CTS125/M5576
CTS1274/FGC34/PF6422
CTS1738/FGC55/PF6449
CTS196/PF5845
CTS1996/M5651
CTS2134
CTS2664/PF6454
CTS2908/M666/PF6123
CTS3123/M670
CTS3135/M1206/PF5898
CTS3199/M5455/PF1649
CTS3229/M672/PF6036/YSC0001265
CTS3358/M1210/PF5900
CTS3460/M5670
CTS3475/PF6456/V2714
CTS3622/PF6037
CTS3941/CTS3941/PF2135/PF2135
CTS4076/Z1011
CTS4244/PF6257/YSC0001279
CTS4443/M3696/PF2677
CTS4944/M1218/PF5909
CTS5418/M1222/PF5912
CTS543/M5584
CTS5577/PF6464
CTS5808/M1226/PF5915
CTS5815/M696
CTS5884/M1228/PF5917
CTS6135/M3708/PF2693
CTS623/PF6419
CTS6800/M5713
CTS6948/M1231/PF5922
CTS7604/M1235/PF5928
CTS7659/FGC50/PF6470
CTS7904/PF6471
CTS7941/PF6472
CTS8221/Z2542
CTS8243/M5736
CTS8436/PF6259
CTS8591
CTS8612/PF6260
CTS8626/M1239/PF5934
CTS8627/PF6478
CTS8665/PF6479
CTS8728/L1063/PF6480/S13
CTS894/PF6420/YSC0001293
CTS9005/M741
CTS9018/PF6484
CTS9162/L1185/M1241/PF5937
CTS9458/M5753
CTS9679
CTS9722/M5762
CTS9972/PF6261
DF104/S661
DF109/S660
E101/M12191/Y1271
F102/M625/PF6116
F1046/M3646/PF2610/YSC0001295
F1381/PF4520
F154/M636
F1704/M3675/PF2651
F1714/F1714/M3677/PF2653/PF2653
F1767/M3683/PF2660
F1794/PF6455
F1857/P337/PF5901/Page83
F2075/PF2685
F2837/M3726/PF2722
F29/L821/M5579/PF5857
F295/M685
F2993/M3737/PF2732/V3940
F313/M1219
F33/M603/PF6013
F332/M1224/PF5914
F3335/M3754/PF2758
F3424/M1489
F344/M1227/PF5916
F356/M703/PF5919
F359/M1229/PF5920
F3689/M2682/PF3495/Y2571
F3692/M3650
F370/M708/Y479
F3703
F459/Y482
F47/M607/Y472
F506/M1243/PF5940
F524/M1248/PF5945
F536/M1251/PF5949
F63/M614/PF6016
F640/M1271/PF5975
F671/M1274/PF5981
F69/L773/PF6421/YSC0000276
F83/M1185/PF5861
F847
F91/PF5862/V231
F93/M621/PF6114
FGC33/PF6469
FGC41/M12190/Y108
IMS-JST022455
L1009
L11/PF6539/S127
L1345/PF6266/YSC0000224
L1347/M792/PF6077/YSC0000233
L1348/PF6521/YSC0000238
L1350/PF6505/YSC0000225
L1351/PF6528/YSC0000240
L1353/PF6489/YSC0000294
L15/M523/PF3492/S137
L16/M522/PF3493/S138
L21/M529/S145
L248.3/M705.3
L265/PF6431
L407/PF6252
L468/M3703/PF2689
L482/PF6427
L483
L500/PF6481
L502/PF6487
L506/PF6267
L51/M412/PF6536/S167
L58
L726
L747/M702/PF5918/YSC0000287
L752/PF6483
L754/PF6269/YSC0000022
L757/PF6488/V3721/YSC0000293
L760/M642/PF5877/YSC0000286
L761/PF6258/YSC0000266
L768/PF5976/YSC0000274
L779/PF5907/YSC0000251
L781/PF5875/YSC0000255
L82/PF5972
L820/PF6262/YSC0000211
L822/PF6247/YSC0000075
L875/M706/PF6131/YSC0000288
L882/M3749/PF2745
L963
L970/PF1065
M10372.1/ZS6696.1
M1109
M1160/PF5958
M1186/PF5864
M1187/PF5865
M1188/PF5869
M1190/PF5871
M1192/PF5872
M1199/PF5886
M1216/PF5908
M1221/P331/PF5911
M1240/PF5936
M1259/PF5956
M1260/PF5957
M1264
M1265/PF5965
M173/P241/Page29
M207/Page37/UTY2
M213/P137/PF2673/Page38
M222/Page84/USP9Y+3636
M2684/PF3497/YSC0001319
M269/PF6517
M2696/PF3500
M299
M306/PF6147/S1
M343/PF6242
M3637/PF2589/V186
M3639/PF2591
M3751/PF2748
M415/PF6251
M45/PF5962
M5577/PF1413/V189
M5691/PF779
M5695/PF1417/V41
M5717/PF844
M5737/PF892
M5747
M5788
M5809/PF1237
M5822
M734/PF6057/S4/YSC0000201
M74/N12/PF5963
M760/Y506
M764/PF5953
M799
M8956
M8961
M8980
M8986
M8999
M9009
M9015
M9017
M9020
M9025
M9026
M9028
M9032
M9034
M9037
M9038
M9042
M9045
M9054
M9056
M9064
M9066
M9156
M9169
M9215
M9231
M9237
M9252
M9261
M9280
M9286
M9288/PF985
M9292
M9293
M9295
M9316/PF1034
M9317
M9328/PF1053
M9341
M9348
M9380
M9387
M9405
M9406
P105/P105
P128/PF5504
P131/PF5493
P132/PF5480
P135/PF2741
P139
P140
P149
P160/PF2618
P187/PF2632
P224/PF6050
P225
P226/PF5879
P228/PF5927
P229/PF6019
P230/PF5925
P232
P233
P235/PF5946
P236
P237/PF5873
P238/PF6115
P239/PF5930
P242/PF6113
P243/PF5874
P244/PF5896
P245/PF6117
P280
P281/PF5941
P282/PF5932
P283/PF5966
P284
P285
P295/PF5866/S8
P297/PF6398
P310/PF6546/S129
P311/PF6545/S128
P84.1
PF1096
PF5938
PF5982
PF6249
PF6263
PF6265
PF6270
PF6271
PF6272
PF6399/S10
PF6409
PF6425
PF6426
PF6429
PF6430
PF6432
PF6434
PF6435
PF6451
PF6466/YSC0000194
PF6482/YSC0000203
PF6485/S3
PF6495
PF6497/YSC0000219
PF6498
PF6500
PF6506
PF6507
PF6524
PF6543/S1159/YSC0000191
PF7372
S349.1
S476/Z2976
S484/Z48
S637/Z2970
SRY10831.1
V153
V1580/Z3965
Y1210
Z11010
Z11910
Z11916
Z12981
Z1759
Z18049.2
Z1853
Z19760
Z21721
Z2961
Z3225
Z3339.2
Z40386
Z40389
Z40393
Z40394
Z40395
Z4145/Z4147

Bizarre to have included Z2976 and Z2961 but not DF49 or DF23 ?

MacUalraig
06-12-2017, 04:34 PM
Bizarre to have included Z2976 and Z2961 but not DF49 or DF23 ?

Yes - unless there is more in the real 'raw data' which they aren't listing to date. The list so far looks like the so-called 'genetic signature' off Chromo2.

Celt_??
06-12-2017, 05:53 PM
For some reason, I received good Y-DNA SNP coverage: I am R-U152 resolved to subclade L20 which is below L2. I just downloaded my SNP positive results file and found 579 SNPs positive.
As my signature shows (below), FTDNA Big-Y test resolved it further to CTS9733.

Living DNA gave me mtDNA results of H1b.

16805

Looks like the usual R-U152 distribution map to me.

Solothurn
06-12-2017, 05:54 PM
Hello U152 cousin :)

Me too with LivingDNA. I thought they would have at least got a subclade!



I sent them a mail regarding the fact that they didn't assign me to a subclade of U152; I asked them if I tested negative for subclades or that they did not test subclades. We'll see.

ArmandoR1b
06-12-2017, 06:24 PM
Lack of negative results is extremely bad service. That was a major complaint I had about NatGeo NextGen and it, along with some false positives, is what caused incorrect subclade placement for a lot of people. LivingDNA is just a better ethnicity calculator for people from the British Isles. The Y-DNA and mtDNA testing is much better at FTDNA, Yseq, and FGC.

Dewsloth
06-12-2017, 06:35 PM
Can some other people throw up their Y maps and haplogroups/subclades?

So this is apparently their map for U106

My coverage map has been updated. Don't know if yours looks like this now John?

15566

And I think this is their map for U152

For some reason, I received good Y-DNA SNP coverage: I am R-U152 resolved to subclade L20 which is below L2.

16805

As my signature shows (below), FTDNA Big-Y test resolved it further to CTS9733.

The implication is the map they gave Dad is not a generic for P312 but their contention as to DF19's modern distribution? That's radically different from the group reporting at FTDNA.
It looks sort of how I would imagine DF27, not DF19.


I would really like to know what they are basing this graphic and the percentages on. It really doesn't seem to mesh with anything I've ever seen either for P312 or DF19:

16800


:boink::suspicious:

Pylsteen
06-12-2017, 07:41 PM
They replied; indeed, certain subclades of U152 (like L2) are on the marker list. Their Y-person is now on holiday, so I might hear more later.

Celt_??
06-12-2017, 08:42 PM
The implication is the map they gave Dad is not a generic for P312 but their contention as to DF19's modern distribution? That's radically different from the group reporting at FTDNA.
It looks sort of how I would imagine DF27, not DF19.

Dewsloth - I tried to find a distribution map for DF19 and couldn't with Google. Not on Europedia for sure. Could you post one - or if not for P312? Thanks

Dewsloth
06-12-2017, 08:54 PM
Dewsloth - I tried to find a distribution map for DF19 and couldn't with Google. Not on Europedia for sure. Could you post one - or if not for P312? Thanks

DF19 maps aren't common. :( Here's the MDKA distribution for FTDNA DF19s, it's the "all" function, which may also include the odd misregistered U152 or I2, but any other setting will not show all DF19s, just one of the many subclades.

16806

Celt_??
06-13-2017, 12:26 AM
DF19 maps aren't common. :( Here's the MDKA distribution for FTDNA DF19s, it's the "all" function, which may also include the odd mis-registered U152 or I2. But any other setting will not show all DF19s.]

EDIT: Sorry the map was actually distribution map for R - L21 and R - DF27 combined. It was mislabeled on my first source. My applogies.

06-16-2017, 02:04 PM
So now we can download our Y data from LivingDNA, can anybody recommend anything useful to do with it? :\

Pylsteen
06-17-2017, 08:40 PM
Regardless of LivingDNA's further upgrades, I think today is a good day to order ftdna's Y37. It gives more control in my y dna research and maybe matches.

Dewsloth
06-28-2017, 04:47 PM
I would really like to know what they are basing this graphic and the percentages on. It really doesn't seem to mesh with anything I've ever seen either for P312 or DF19:

16800


:boink::suspicious:

I have sent an email to LivingDNA to see if I can get some explanation for this. I'll report back with any reply.
I'm pretty sure they are presenting DF27 results in the map and figures, not DF19, but I guess we'll see.

ArmandoR1b
06-29-2017, 03:11 AM
For those of you positive for an SNP downstream of P312 do you have P312 in your raw data file from LivingDNA?

Pylsteen
06-29-2017, 09:45 AM
For those of you positive for an SNP downstream of P312 do you have P312 in your raw data file from LivingDNA?


Yes, it is in there, just like downstream U152.

06-29-2017, 09:47 AM
Regardless of LivingDNA's further upgrades, I think today is a good day to order ftdna's Y37. It gives more control in my y dna research and maybe matches.

Already ordered :P

Pylsteen
06-29-2017, 10:09 AM
Already ordered :P

It is waiting now... few days ago it was in Chicago acc. to the trace. I think it leaving the US and entering the EU takes the most time. I think it might appear in the mailbox suddenly next week.

06-29-2017, 10:13 AM
Mine took a couple of weeks to arrive. Sent mine back about week and half ago, got stuck in customs on way back for few days, but mines at least been delivered to ftdna in Texas.
So now wait for results.B)

Pylsteen
06-30-2017, 12:03 PM
It is waiting now... few days ago it was in Chicago acc. to the trace. I think it leaving the US and entering the EU takes the most time. I think it might appear in the mailbox suddenly next week.

Wow, I found it in the mail box. I have to admit, I was afraid of customs taxing etc., after all this is Europe, but thank god nothing of that all. Good. Now waiting (and keeping this thread about LivingDNA :P).

ArmandoR1b
06-30-2017, 12:55 PM
I would really like to know what they are basing this graphic and the percentages on. It really doesn't seem to mesh with anything I've ever seen either for P312 or DF19:

16800


:boink::suspicious:


I have sent an email to LivingDNA to see if I can get some explanation for this. I'll report back with any reply.
I'm pretty sure they are presenting DF27 results in the map and figures, not DF19, but I guess we'll see.
I'm guessing that if it is not a map of DF19 that it is a map of the P312 samples that are negative for everything that is included in their test which would include D19 and some DF27. As far as the DF27 samples included in that map they should only be the ones that that are negative for Z195 since sktibo has verified that Z195 is included in the LivingDNA test since he is terminal for it but DF27 is not included in the test. It's unfortunate that LivingDNA does not report the negative results so that we can tell which ones that map includes.

I am interested in their response.

Dewsloth
06-30-2017, 06:41 PM
I'm guessing that if it is not a map of DF19 that it is a map of the P312 samples that are negative for everything that is included in their test which would include D19 and some DF27. As far as the DF27 samples included in that map they should only be the ones that that are negative for Z195 since sktibo has verified that Z195 is included in the LivingDNA test since he is terminal for it but DF27 is not included in the test. It's unfortunate that LivingDNA does not report the negative results so that we can tell which ones that map includes.

I am interested in their response.

Well, here's their response:

Thank you for contacting Living DNA.


This testing results in your haplogroup assignment, which is your "branch" of the human family tree, from your father's side. You will share an ancient (10s of thousands of years ago) ancestor with everyone who shares your haplogroup. ​The coverage map shows you a percentage of how many people in different areas around the world share the same haplogroup. The subclade detail of your results will depend on which of the markers that we test for end up positive for your DNA sample.

At this time we do not have information on the distribution of subclades. We are always finding new information and researching all the time. If we find more information that will benefit an individual will we update and upgrade the online portal. The online portal is there for life and will always be updated for free.

I hope this information helps.

Warm regards

Andy

It's so vague, I'm still not sure what they are trying to show me. For anyone out there who isn't familiar with DF19, the FTDNA DF19 Group members' MDKA map looks like this:
17087

And yet look at the Spanish/French percentages Living DNA gives in their report:

16800

What they've supplied doesn't look like DF19, and it doesn't look like P312. I don't have a problem with them not having enough information to give, but their lack of "showing their work" and explaining just what it is they're purporting to show is problematic. My major concern is what they have supplied would mislead someone who was just learning about YDNA for the first time.

His lack of specifics in the email makes me wonder if he even knows what Living DNA is trying to show. It could be DF27? What else has those percentages in those countries?

Pylsteen
07-06-2017, 04:11 PM
I'm not going to list them, but from a reply it seems they test about 12 markers below U152, virtually all of the L2-branch. From that I conclude that with their current chip, they can tell if someone is L2+ or L2-, and for L2+ people, some further subclades. Since I don't find any of these SNPs in my list, it seems likely that I am L2- (keeping in mind of course that some of us had wrong calls). Remaining options are Z36, Z56, Z192, or some minor other branch. I think Z56 may be a good option, since I see that Z48/S484 got a positive call (only don't understand that, since this one is not on their testing list).

Solothurn
07-07-2017, 04:51 AM
You may have already seen this:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1216-U152-Z367-in-the-Netherlands&highlight=gonl



I'm not going to list them, but from a reply it seems they test about 12 markers below U152, virtually all of the L2-branch. From that I conclude that with their current chip, they can tell if someone is L2+ or L2-, and for L2+ people, some further subclades. Since I don't find any of these SNPs in my list, it seems likely that I am L2- (keeping in mind of course that some of us had wrong calls). Remaining options are Z36, Z56, Z192, or some minor other branch. I think Z56 may be a good option, since I see that Z48/S484 got a positive call (only don't understand that, since this one is not on their testing list).

Pylsteen
07-07-2017, 09:09 AM
You may have already seen this:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1216-U152-Z367-in-the-Netherlands&highlight=gonl


"There were no Z36+ samples", that surprises me, because I associated this group with La Tene expansions. Z56+ seems to have an Italic distribution.
On Eupedia I find the following:

"About half of Belgian R1b-P312 belong to the U152 (S28) subclade associated with the La Tène Celts, Gauls and Romans, with a slightly higher frequency in Wallonia (16%) and Luxembourg (14%) than in Flanders (10%), and it keeps decreasing as one moves north to the southern Netherlands (6%), the central Netherlands (3.5%), and is almost absent from Frisia (1%). A bit over half of U152 in Wallonia and over 80% of U152 in Flanders belong to the L2 subclade. Wallonia seems to have more diversity, with a higher presence of typically Italic/Roman subclades like Z56 and Z192, but also of La Tène Celtic (and Belgic?) Z36. Autosomal ancestry analysis of Belgian individuals who tested with 23andMe shows that Walloons are much more likely than the Flemings to have a small percentage of Italian DNA (typically 2 to 4% + a few more percents of 'broadly southern European'), which is almost certainly of Roman origin."

The majority is L2+, the rest less present. Possibly there are also basal U152 clades left from the Beakers, I think. It's now waiting for my ftdna results.

07-07-2017, 09:15 AM
I think. It's now waiting for my ftdna results.

When are they due? mine are due 5 - 7 weeks.

Pylsteen
07-07-2017, 09:23 AM
When are they due? mine are due 5 - 7 weeks.

I sent it back on Monday, so they haven't received it yet.

Solothurn
07-07-2017, 04:45 PM
I thought I heard two NL men were Z193 and possibly S20550+ but I cannot remember where from :(

Maybe Rich Rocca can correct or agree with me on this :)

ajc347
07-07-2017, 09:19 PM
Living DNA have now recatagorised me as being P312+, and I'm trying to work out which subclades they test for below P312 in an effort to try and narrow my results further.

I'm aware that some Sktibo has tested positive for markers below DF27 and Pylsteen is U152+, so I suspect that my results would be negative for these. I've tested DF19- and L238- at YSEQ so that rules them out.

Does anyone know whether they test for L21, DF99, Y18209 or A9063?

ArmandoR1b
07-07-2017, 11:22 PM
Living DNA have now recatagorised me as being P312+, and I'm trying to work out which subclades they test for below P312 in an effort to try and narrow my results further.

I'm aware that some Sktibo has tested positive for markers below DF27 and Pylsteen is U152+, so I suspect that my results would be negative for these. I've tested DF19- and L238- at YSEQ so that rules them out.

Does anyone know whether they test for L21, DF99, Y18209 or A9063?

Sktibo posted his LivingDNA file results, in your thread here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11122-Living-DNA-amp-FTDNA-Y-Haplogroup-Assignment-Issue&p=253300&viewfull=1#post253300), and it does not show DF27 in the list and it is an SNP that normally can't be read by the chips used for tests such as LivingDNA so it very unlikely that it is tested by LivingDNA. You can be positive for DF27 but negative for Z195 which could cause you to be terminal for P312 at LivingDNA since they don't test for ZZ12 or a lot of other SNPs downstream from ZZ12.

L21 is in the raw file for a tester per the post here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245863&viewfull=1#post245863) so you would have tested negative if they reported it correctly.

Robert McBride
07-07-2017, 11:29 PM
Sktibo posted his LivingDNA file results, in your thread here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11122-Living-DNA-amp-FTDNA-Y-Haplogroup-Assignment-Issue&p=253300&viewfull=1#post253300), and it does not show DF27 in the list and it is an SNP that normally can't be read by the chips used for tests such as LivingDNA so it very unlikely that it is tested by LivingDNA. You can be positive for DF27 but negative for Z195 which could cause you to be terminal for DF27 at LivingDNA.

L21 is in the raw file for a tester per the post here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245863&viewfull=1#post245863) so you would have tested negative if they reported it correctly.

I'm that tester and I can't see P312 amongst my results. As Im M222+ shouldnt I be positive for it?

ajc347
07-07-2017, 11:35 PM
Sktibo posted his LivingDNA file results, in your thread here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11122-Living-DNA-amp-FTDNA-Y-Haplogroup-Assignment-Issue&p=253300&viewfull=1#post253300), and it does not show DF27 in the list and it is an SNP that normally can't be read by the chips used for tests such as LivingDNA so it very unlikely that it is tested by LivingDNA. You can be positive for DF27 but negative for Z195 which could cause you to be terminal for DF27 at LivingDNA since they don't test for ZZ12 or a lot of other SNPs downstream from ZZ12.

L21 is in the raw file for a tester per the post here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245863&viewfull=1#post245863) so you would have tested negative if they reported it correctly.

Thanks Armando. That's really helpful information. :)

ArmandoR1b
07-08-2017, 11:31 AM
I'm that tester and I can't see P312 amongst my results. As Im M222+ shouldnt I be positive for it?

You definitely should see P312 in your results if they tested you for it. I assume that they mistakenly have you negative for P312 like they did with ajc347. You could email LivingDNA and have them rerun your results since P312 is missing from the list of positive results.

ollie444
07-08-2017, 12:08 PM
Thumbs up as my paternal grandfather and I were assigned the same subclade. His excel file has 591 rows compared to my 503 though. Can't be bothered to go through and check it all, but bit surprised they should appear so different. Is this likely to be because they aren't reporting positives for one of us, or are giving false positives?

ArmandoR1b
07-08-2017, 12:26 PM
I second using Facebook to contact them, or as Norfolk put it, "kick". That's how I got my Y DNA line sorted which was also initially incorrect.

Will you post a screenshot of your Fatherline Coverage Map from LivingDNA? The map for DF19 at LivingDNA per the post by Dewsloth who is terminal for DF19 is identical to the map at LivingDNA for ajc347 who is terminal for P312 at LivingDNA. There is a link to the LivingDNA results of ajc347 under each of his posts.

MacEochaidh
07-08-2017, 12:34 PM
I'm that tester and I can't see P312 amongst my results. As Im M222+ shouldnt I be positive for it?

Yes Robert, you are P312 + You are also L21+ DF49+ and DF23+ and Z2961+ on your way to M222+

ArmandoR1b
07-08-2017, 12:53 PM
Thumbs up as my paternal grandfather and I were assigned the same subclade. His excel file has 591 rows compared to my 503 though. Can't be bothered to go through and check it all, but bit surprised they should appear so different. Is this likely to be because they aren't reporting positives for one of us, or are giving false positives?

If you post your results and your paternal grandfather's results we might be able to figure something out for you. Have you verified that they haven't updated your file though?

ArmandoR1b
07-08-2017, 12:55 PM
Yes Robert, you are P312 + You are also L21+ DF49+ and DF23+ and Z2961+ on your way to M222+

P312 is missing from the results that were posted for him in this thread which is why he was asking. LivingDNA needs to be thorough and accurate with it's reporting.

ollie444
07-08-2017, 01:27 PM
If you post your results and your paternal grandfather's results we might be able to figure something out for you. Have you verified that they haven't updated your file though?

Both assigned R-U106 R-Z326 Files have not changed.

These are mine:
B66/Z16458
CTS10149/PF6490/V3993
CTS10168/M1149
CTS10271/V4042
CTS10362/M5770
CTS10442
CTS10540
CTS1068/PF4508
CTS10720
CTS10834
CTS109/M8948
CTS10946/M5804
CTS11468/PF6520
CTS11741/PF4847
CTS11948/PF6522/PF6522
CTS11985/PF6523
CTS12028/M1272/PF5977
CTS1217/M5597
CTS125/M5576
CTS1384
CTS1678/M2024
CTS1738/FGC55/PF6449
CTS196/PF5845
CTS1996/M5651
CTS2077/M5653
CTS2134
CTS2254/M3680/PF2657
CTS2664/PF6454
CTS2908/M666/PF6123
CTS3123/M670
CTS3135/M1206/PF5898
CTS3229/M672/PF6036/YSC0001265
CTS3358/M1210/PF5900
CTS3475/PF6456/V2714
CTS3536/M3688/PF2666
CTS3654/M3689/PF2667
CTS3818/M3690/PF2668
CTS4032
CTS4244/PF6257/YSC0001279
CTS4364/M5679
CTS445
CTS4740/M5684
CTS4944/M1218/PF5909
CTS5318/M5690
CTS5368/Z2215
CTS5418/M1222/PF5912
CTS543/M5584
CTS5532/M5694
CTS5577/PF6464
CTS5746/M5697
CTS5808/M1226/PF5915
CTS5815/M696
CTS5884/M1228/PF5917
CTS6135/M3708/PF2693
CTS623/PF6419
CTS6252/M5700
CTS6800/M5713
CTS6907/M5715
CTS7604/M1235/PF5928
CTS7738/PF4568
CTS7904/PF6471
CTS7922/M5727
CTS7933/M5728
CTS7941/PF6472
CTS8243/M5736
CTS8436/PF6259
CTS852/CTS852.2/PF4504/PF4504.2
CTS8542/M5743
CTS8591
CTS8612/PF6260
CTS8626/M1239/PF5934
CTS8627/PF6478
CTS8665/PF6479
CTS8728/L1063/PF6480/S13
CTS894/PF6420/YSC0001293
CTS8974/PF4578
CTS9018/PF6484
CTS9458/M5753
CTS9556/M5758
CTS9679
CTS9972/PF6261
F102/M625/PF6116
F1046/M3646/PF2610/YSC0001295
F1167/PF4516/YSC0001296
F1209/M3654/YSC0001297
F1276
F1320/M3657/PF2621
F1329/F1329/M3658/M3658/PF2622/PF2622/YSC0001299/YSC0001299
F1381/PF4520
F1386
F1539/F1539
F1548/Z1594
F1704/M3675/PF2651
F1714/F1714/M3677/PF2653/PF2653
F1727
F1753/M3681/PF2658
F1767/M3683/PF2660
F1857/P337/PF5901/Page83
F2142/PF2688
F2155/M3704/PF2690
F2174/PF4558/YSC0001305
F2179
F2402/M3714/PF2700
F2434
F2497
F2587/M3719/PF2709/YSC0001308
F2837/M3726/PF2722
F2869/V3554
F29/L821/M5579/PF5857
F295/M685
F2993/M3737/PF2732/V3940
F3111/M3740/PF2736
F3136/M3741/PF2737
F33/M603/PF6013
F3319
F332/M1224/PF5914
F3335/M3754/PF2758
F3358/PF4611/YSC0001316
F3424/M1489
F344/M1227/PF5916
F3484.2
F356/M703/PF5919
F359/M1229/PF5920
F3689/M2682/PF3495/Y2571
F3692/M3650
F370/M708/Y479
F3712
F4/M1183/PF5991
F4233/M1404
F459/Y482
F47/M607/Y472
F506/M1243/PF5940
F524/M1248/PF5945
F63/M614/PF6016
F640/M1271/PF5975
F671/M1274/PF5981
F69/L773/PF6421/YSC0000276
F709
F719/IMS-JST00305/M3636/S8235
F847
F91/PF5862/V231
F929/M578/PF3494/S6378
F93/M621/PF6114
FGC12615/Y8763
FGC18149/Y11803
FGC2152/V2435/Y6741
FGC29897/Y9320/Z23673
FGC33/PF6469
FGC33852/Y1537
FGC41/M12190/Y108
L1009
L1013
L1053
L1061/PF1101
L1062/PF302
L1071/M8945
L11/PF6539/S127
L1220/M9212
L132.1
L1345/PF6266/YSC0000224
L1347/M792/PF6077/YSC0000233
L1350/PF6505/YSC0000225
L1351/PF6528/YSC0000240
L1353/PF6489/YSC0000294
L15/M523/PF3492/S137
L16/M522/PF3493/S138
L23/PF6534/S141
L265/PF6431
L407/PF6252
L438
L440
L48/S162
L482/PF6427
L483
L500/PF6481
L51/M412/PF6536/S167
L58
L604/PF1243
L741/PF5960/YSC0000297
L747/M702/PF5918/YSC0000287
L754/PF6269/YSC0000022
L757/PF6488/V3721/YSC0000293
L761/PF6258/YSC0000266
L768/PF5976/YSC0000274
L82/PF5972
L822/PF6247/YSC0000075
L875/M706/PF6131/YSC0000288
L882/M3749/PF2745
L962
L969
L970/PF1065
M1109
M1160/PF5958
M11760
M1187/PF5865
M1188/PF5869
M1190/PF5871
M1192/PF5872
M1199/PF5886
M1221/P331/PF5911
M1240/PF5936
M1259/PF5956
M1260/PF5957
M1263/PF5964
M1264
M168/PF1416
M173/P241/Page29
M207/Page37/UTY2
M213/P137/PF2673/Page38
M2398
M2684/PF3497/YSC0001319
M269/PF6517
M2696/PF3500
M294
M299
M343/PF6242
M3638/PF2590/V205
M3639/PF2591
M3652/PF2615
M3750/PF2747
M3752/PF2749
M405/S21/U106
M45/PF5962
M5432/PF1577
M5590
M5591/PF223
M5599/PF234
M5601
M5603/PF1415/V226
M5607
M5609
M5610
M5613
M5616/PF272
M5625
M5627
M5629
M5631/PF292
M5632
M5636
M5642
M5649
M5675/PF719
M5682
M5695/PF1417/V41
M5711/PF821
M5716/PF840
M5721/PF1418/V52
M5726
M5738
M5747
M5751/PF937
M5754
M5756/PF951
M5777
M5781/PF1040
M5783
M5788
M5800/PF1203
M5825
M734/PF6057/S4/YSC0000201
M760/Y506
M764/PF5953
M799
M89/PF2746
M8947
M8951
M8954
M8961
M8967
M8968
M8969/PF1407/V21
M8970
M8972
M8977
M8980
M8983
M8986
M8994
M8999
M9001
M9008
M9015
M9016
M9017
M9019
M9020
M9026
M9028
M9032
M9042
M9045
M9046
M9054
M9056
M9057
M9064
M9076
M9079
M9081
M9089
M9099
M9100
M9110
M9115
M9117
M9118/Page81
M9121
M9124
M9126
M9128
M9129
M9142
M9143
M9148
M9166
M9169
M9174/S1572
M9176
M9182
M9187
M9188
M9189
M9196
M9210
M9214
M9215
M9219
M9223
M9226
M9227
M9231
M9235
M9237
M9238
M9239
M9242
M9252
M9254
M9255
M9257
M9261
M9265
M9267
M9278/PF969
M9283
M9285
M9288/PF985
M9289
M9291
M9292
M9298/Z12093
M9300
M9303
M9316/PF1034
M9317
M9318
M9321
M9322
M9326
M9334
M9335
M9336/Page26
M9338
M9341
M9346
M9349
M9352
M9356
M9357
M9359
M9360
M9362
M9366
M9376
M9378
M9380
M9389
M9393
M94
M9406
P128/PF5504
P131/PF5493
P132/PF5480
P135/PF2741
P136/PF2762
P138/PF2655
P139
P14/PF2704
P141/PF2602
P143/PF2587
P145/PF2617
P148/PF2734
P149
P151/PF2625
P157
P158/PF2706
P159/PF2717
P160/PF2618
P166/PF2702
P170/PF1656
P224/PF6050
P225
P226/PF5879
P228/PF5927
P230/PF5925
P232
P233
P235/PF5946
P237/PF5873
P238/PF6115
P242/PF6113
P243/PF5874
P244/PF5896
P245/PF6117
P281/PF5941
P282/PF5932
P283/PF5966
P285
P286/PF6136
P295/PF5866/S8
P310/PF6546/S129
P311/PF6545/S128
PF1016
PF1096
PF1403/V187
PF1411/V59
PF4598
PF4832/Z2381
PF4843/Z2324
PF5982
PF6246
PF6249
PF6263
PF6265
PF6270
PF6271
PF6272
PF6399/S10
PF6409
PF6425
PF6426
PF6429
PF6432
PF6434
PF6435
PF6463
PF6466/YSC0000194
PF6482/YSC0000203
PF6485/S3
PF6495
PF6498
PF6500
PF6506
PF6507
PF6524
PF6543/S1159/YSC0000191
PF970
S1731/Z327
S1747/Z333
S268/Z9
S269/Z328
S380/Z329
S504/Z28
S505/Z330
SRY10831.1
V234
V237
Y1049
Y1112
Y11799/Z29158
Y12093/Z29160
Z11891
Z11900
Z11902
Z11907
Z11910
Z11914
Z11915
Z1421
Z14416
Z17373
Z1759
Z17894
Z17896
Z17900
Z18049.2
Z19760
Z22125
Z22244
Z326
Z348
Z3724
Z3962
Z40387
Z40389
Z40392
Z40393
Z40394
Z40395
Z41341
Z4145/Z4147
Z4423

And these are my paternal grandfather's:
B66/Z16458
CTS10083
CTS10085/M1250/PF5948
CTS10149/PF6490/V3993
CTS10168/M1149
CTS10271/V4042
CTS10362/M5770
CTS10442
CTS10540
CTS10663/M788
CTS1068/PF4508
CTS10720
CTS10834
CTS109/M8948
CTS11468/PF6520
CTS11741/PF4847
CTS11948/PF6522/PF6522
CTS11985/PF6523
CTS12028/M1272/PF5977
CTS1217/M5597
CTS125/M5576
CTS12632/M3771/PF2775
CTS1274/FGC34/PF6422
CTS1384
CTS1678/M2024
CTS1738/FGC55/PF6449
CTS196/PF5845
CTS1996/M5651
CTS2077/M5653
CTS2134
CTS2254/M3680/PF2657
CTS2664/PF6454
CTS2908/M666/PF6123
CTS3123/M670
CTS3135/M1206/PF5898
CTS3229/M672/PF6036/YSC0001265
CTS3358/M1210/PF5900
CTS3431/M5669
CTS3475/PF6456/V2714
CTS3536/M3688/PF2666
CTS3654/M3689/PF2667
CTS3818/M3690/PF2668
CTS4032
CTS423/M5583
CTS4244/PF6257/YSC0001279
CTS4364/M5679
CTS4368/L1028/M5680
CTS4443/M3696/PF2677
CTS445
CTS4740/M5684
CTS4944/M1218/PF5909
CTS5318/M5690
CTS5368/Z2215
CTS5418/M1222/PF5912
CTS543/M5584
CTS5532/M5694
CTS5577/PF6464
CTS5746/M5697
CTS5808/M1226/PF5915
CTS5815/M696
CTS5884/M1228/PF5917
CTS6135/M3708/PF2693
CTS623/PF6419
CTS6252/M5700
CTS6383/M5707
CTS6890/M5714
CTS6907/M5715
CTS7604/M1235/PF5928
CTS7659/FGC50/PF6470
CTS7738/PF4568
CTS7904/PF6471
CTS7922/M5727
CTS7933/M5728
CTS7941/PF6472
CTS8148
CTS8243/M5736
CTS8436/PF6259
CTS852/CTS852.2/PF4504/PF4504.2
CTS8542/M5743
CTS8591
CTS8612/PF6260
CTS8626/M1239/PF5934
CTS8627/PF6478
CTS8665/PF6479
CTS8728/L1063/PF6480/S13
CTS894/PF6420/YSC0001293
CTS8974/PF4578
CTS9005/M741
CTS9018/PF6484
CTS9458/M5753
CTS9556/M5758
CTS9679
CTS9722/M5762
CTS9828/M5764
CTS9972/PF6261
F102/M625/PF6116
F1046/M3646/PF2610/YSC0001295
F1167/PF4516/YSC0001296
F1209/M3654/YSC0001297
F1276
F1320/M3657/PF2621
F1329/F1329/M3658/M3658/PF2622/PF2622/YSC0001299/YSC0001299
F1381/PF4520
F1386
F1539/F1539
F1548/Z1594
F1704/M3675/PF2651
F1714/F1714/M3677/PF2653/PF2653
F1727
F1753/M3681/PF2658
F1767/M3683/PF2660
F1857/P337/PF5901/Page83
F2048/M3701/PF2683/V3268
F2075/PF2685
F2142/PF2688
F2155/M3704/PF2690
F2174/PF4558/YSC0001305
F2179
F2211
F2402/M3714/PF2700
F2434
F2497
F2587/M3719/PF2709/YSC0001308
F2688/M3722/PF2716
F2837/M3726/PF2722
F2869/V3554
F29/L821/M5579/PF5857
F295/M685
F2993/M3737/PF2732/V3940
F3008/M1441
F3111/M3740/PF2736
F313/M1219
F3136/M3741/PF2737
F33/M603/PF6013
F3319
F332/M1224/PF5914
F3335/M3754/PF2758
F3358/PF4611/YSC0001316
F3424/M1489
F344/M1227/PF5916
F3484.2
F356/M703/PF5919
F359/M1229/PF5920
F3689/M2682/PF3495/Y2571
F3692/M3650
F370/M708/Y479
F3712
F380/M1757/S27659
F4233/M1404
F459/Y482
F47/M607/Y472
F506/M1243/PF5940
F524/M1248/PF5945
F536/M1251/PF5949
F63/M614/PF6016
F640/M1271/PF5975
F671/M1274/PF5981
F69/L773/PF6421/YSC0000276
F709
F719/IMS-JST00305/M3636/S8235
F83/M1185/PF5861
F847
F91/PF5862/V231
F929/M578/PF3494/S6378
F93/M621/PF6114
F932/M1290
FGC12615/Y8763
FGC18149/Y11803
FGC2152/V2435/Y6741
FGC29897/Y9320/Z23673
FGC33/PF6469
FGC33852/Y1537
FGC41/M12190/Y108
IMS-JST022456
IMS-JST022457
L1013
L1053
L1061/PF1101
L1062/PF302
L1071/M8945
L11/PF6539/S127
L1220/M9212
L132.1
L1345/PF6266/YSC0000224
L1347/M792/PF6077/YSC0000233
L1348/PF6521/YSC0000238
L1350/PF6505/YSC0000225
L1351/PF6528/YSC0000240
L1353/PF6489/YSC0000294
L15/M523/PF3492/S137
L16/M522/PF3493/S138
L23/PF6534/S141
L265/PF6431
L407/PF6252
L438
L440
L48/S162
L482/PF6427
L483
L500/PF6481
L502/PF6487
L506/PF6267
L51/M412/PF6536/S167
L58
L604/PF1243
L741/PF5960/YSC0000297
L747/M702/PF5918/YSC0000287
L752/PF6483
L754/PF6269/YSC0000022
L757/PF6488/V3721/YSC0000293
L761/PF6258/YSC0000266
L762/PF6450/YSC0000258
L768/PF5976/YSC0000274
L779/PF5907/YSC0000251
L82/PF5972
L822/PF6247/YSC0000075
L875/M706/PF6131/YSC0000288
L882/M3749/PF2745
L962
L969
L970/PF1065
L989
M1109
M1160/PF5958
M11760
M1186/PF5864
M1187/PF5865
M1188/PF5869
M1190/PF5871
M1192/PF5872
M1199/PF5886
M1216/PF5908
M1221/P331/PF5911
M1240/PF5936
M1259/PF5956
M1260/PF5957
M1263/PF5964
M1264
M168/PF1416
M173/P241/Page29
M207/Page37/UTY2
M2398
M251/M9122
M2684/PF3497/YSC0001319
M269/PF6517
M294
M299
M306/PF6147/S1
M31
M343/PF6242
M3637/PF2589/V186
M3638/PF2590/V205
M3639/PF2591
M3652/PF2615
M3750/PF2747
M3751/PF2748
M3752/PF2749
M405/S21/U106
M415/PF6251
M45/PF5962
M5432/PF1577
M5590
M5591/PF223
M5599/PF234
M5601
M5603/PF1415/V226
M5607
M5608/PF258
M5609
M5610
M5613
M5616/PF272
M5625
M5627
M5629
M5631/PF292
M5632
M5636
M5642
M5649
M5650
M5675/PF719
M5682
M5695/PF1417/V41
M5698/PF796
M5708
M5709
M5711/PF821
M5716/PF840
M5721/PF1418/V52
M5726
M5737/PF892
M5738
M5747
M5751/PF937
M5754
M5756/PF951
M5760
M5777
M5778/PF1031
M5781/PF1040
M5783
M5788
M5800/PF1203
M5821
M5822
M5825
M734/PF6057/S4/YSC0000201
M760/Y506
M764/PF5953
M89/PF2746
M8947
M8951
M8953/PF1405/V216
M8954
M8959
M8961
M8967
M8968
M8969/PF1407/V21
M8970
M8972
M8976
M8977
M8980
M8983
M8994
M8997
M8999
M9001
M9003
M9008
M9015
M9016
M9017
M9019
M9020
M9025
M9026
M9028
M9032
M9038
M9042
M9045
M9046
M9054
M9056
M9057
M9064
M9076
M9079
M9081
M9089
M9094
M9099
M9100
M9110
M9114
M9115
M9117
M9118/Page81
M9121
M9124
M9126
M9128
M9129
M9135
M9136
M9142
M9143
M9146
M9148
M9166
M9169
M9174/S1572
M9176
M9182
M9187
M9188
M9189
M9194.3
M9196
M9199
M9210
M9214
M9215
M9219
M9223
M9226
M9227
M9231
M9235
M9237
M9238
M9239
M9242
M9244
M9245
M9252
M9253
M9254
M9255
M9257
M9265
M9267
M9277
M9278/PF969
M9283
M9285
M9288/PF985
M9289
M9291
M9292
M9295
M9298/Z12093
M9300
M9303
M9316/PF1034
M9317
M9318
M9321
M9322
M9326
M9327
M9328/PF1053
M9331
M9334
M9335
M9336/Page26
M9338
M9341
M9346
M9348
M9352
M9356
M9357
M9359
M9360
M9362
M9365
M9366
M9376
M9378
M9380
M9389
M9393
M9394
M94
M9406
P128/PF5504
P131/PF5493
P132/PF5480
P135/PF2741
P136/PF2762
P138/PF2655
P139
P14/PF2704
P140
P141/PF2602
P143/PF2587
P145/PF2617
P148/PF2734
P149
P151/PF2625
P157
P158/PF2706
P159/PF2717
P160/PF2618
P163
P166/PF2702
P202
P224/PF6050
P225
P226/PF5879
P228/PF5927
P229/PF6019
P230/PF5925
P232
P233
P235/PF5946
P236
P237/PF5873
P238/PF6115
P239/PF5930
P242/PF6113
P243/PF5874
P244/PF5896
P245/PF6117
P280
P281/PF5941
P282/PF5932
P283/PF5966
P284
P285
P286/PF6136
P295/PF5866/S8
P297/PF6398
P310/PF6546/S129
P311/PF6545/S128
PF1016
PF1096
PF1403/V187
PF1411/V59
PF2608
PF4598
PF4832/Z2381
PF4843/Z2324
PF5982
PF6246
PF6249
PF6263
PF6265
PF6270
PF6271
PF6272
PF6399/S10
PF6409
PF6425
PF6426
PF6429
PF6430
PF6432
PF6434
PF6435
PF6451
PF6463
PF6466/YSC0000194
PF6482/YSC0000203
PF6485/S3
PF6495
PF6497/YSC0000219
PF6498
PF6500
PF6506
PF6507
PF6524
PF6543/S1159/YSC0000191
PF713
PF970
S1731/Z327
S1747/Z333
S268/Z9
S269/Z328
S349.1
S380/Z329
S484/Z48
S504/Z28
S505/Z330
SRY10831.1
V234
V237
V32
V6
Y1049
Y1112
Y11799/Z29158
Y12093/Z29160
Y1293
Z11891
Z11895
Z11900
Z11902
Z11907
Z11914
Z11915
Z1421
Z14416
Z17373
Z1759
Z17894
Z17896
Z17900
Z18049.2
Z19760
Z22125
Z326
Z335
Z347
Z348
Z3724
Z3962
Z40386
Z40387
Z40389
Z40392
Z40393
Z40394
Z40395
Z41341
Z4145/Z4147
Z4423

ArmandoR1b
07-08-2017, 03:56 PM
[B]
Both assigned R-U106 R-Z326 Files have not changed.


I used Excel to compare the SNPs with a Ybrowse csv file and combined the SNP with the ISOGG haplogroup column from the Ybrowse file and the comment column from the Ybrowse file.

Most of the differences in the files between you and your grandfather are SNPs far upstream from your terminal SNP such as in haplogroup BT and haplogroup CT that all haplogroup R people are positive for. There are others that are false positives such as P170 in haplogroup E and S484/Z48 which is a subclade of U152.

The following are in your report that aren't in your grandfather's report.



LivingDNA ISOGG_haplogroup comment
L1009 A1b Found ancestral in a hg A-L896 WTY participant
Z11910 A1b Equiv. to A1b
M8986 BT unknown
M9261 BT unknown
M9349 BT unknown
CTS10946/M5804 CT Extracted from 1000 genomes data. Not qualified.
CTS6800/M5713 CT Syn. with CTS10362. downstream M139
P170/PF1656 E P170
Z22244 E (not listed) equiv to Z6023
M213/P137/PF2673/Page38 F UTY1ex05b
M2696/PF3500 IJK~ unknown
F4/M1183/PF5991 not listed Found in a hg (unk.) person. Upstream of M45.
M799 R (not listed) Below M207

This is what is in your grandfather's report that you don't have in your report.


LivingDNA ISOGG_haplogroup comment
M31 A1a G10.66b
L989 A1b Found ancestral in a hg A-L896 WTY participant
Z11895 A1b Equiv. to A1b
M251/M9122 BT .
M8953/PF1405/V216 BT unknown
M8959 BT unknown
M8976 BT unknown
M8997 BT unknown
M9003 BT unknown
M9025 BT .
M9038 BT .
M9094 BT unknown
M9114 BT unknown
M9135 BT unknown
M9136 BT unknown
M9146 BT unknown
M9194.3 BT .
M9199 BT unknown
M9244 BT unknown
M9245 BT unknown
M9253 BT unknown
M9277 BT unknown
M9295 BT unknown
M9327 BT unknown
M9328/PF1053 BT unknown
M9331 BT unknown
M9348 BT .
M9365 BT unknown
M9394 BT unknown
PF713 BT Extracted from genome study of Sardinian samples
Z40386 BT Equiv to M91
CTS10083 C Extracted from 1000 genomes data. Not qualified.
CTS8148 C Syn. with CTS10116. downstream CTS10362
F2211 C Found in a hg C person. Upstream of M130.
CTS3431/M5669 CT Syn. with CTS10362. downstream M139
CTS423/M5583 CT Extracted from 1000 genomes data. Not qualified.
CTS4368/L1028/M5680 CT Syn. with CTS10362. downstream M139
CTS6383/M5707 CT Syn. with CTS10362. downstream M139
CTS6890/M5714 CT Extracted from 1000 genomes data. Not qualified.
CTS9722/M5762 CT Extracted from 1000 genomes data. Not qualified.
CTS9828/M5764 CT Syn. with CTS10362. downstream M139
M5608/PF258 CT unknown
M5650 CT unknown
M5698/PF796 CT unknown
M5708 CT unknown
M5709 CT unknown
M5737/PF892 CT unknown
M5760 CT unknown
M5778/PF1031 CT unknown
M5821 CT unknown
M5822 CT unknown
IMS-JST022457 D1b1a2 .
IMS-JST022456 D1b1d1a Downstream of D-M116.1
V32 E1b1b1a1a1b TBL1Y
V6 E1b1b1b2b3a~ TBL1Y. below V1700
P140 F P140
P163 F P163
CTS10085/M1250/PF5948 not listed Extracted from 1000 genomes data. Not qualified.
CTS10663/M788 not listed Extracted from 1000 genomes data. Not qualified.
CTS12632/M3771/PF2775 not listed Syn. with CTS11726. downstream CTS10362
CTS1274/FGC34/PF6422 not listed Extracted from 1000 genomes data. Not qualified.
CTS4443/M3696/PF2677 not listed Syn. with CTS11726. downstream CTS10362
CTS7659/FGC50/PF6470 not listed Syn. with CTS10834. downstream CTS11985
CTS9005/M741 not listed Extracted from 1000 genomes data. Not qualified.
F2048/M3701/PF2683/V3268 not listed Found in a hg (unk.) person. Upstream of M89.
F2075/PF2685 not listed Found in a hg (unk.) person. Upstream of M89.
F2688/M3722/PF2716 not listed Found in a hg (unk.) person. Upstream of M89.
F313/M1219 not listed Found in a hg (unk.) person. Upstream of M45.
F83/M1185/PF5861 not listed Found in a hg (unk.) person. Upstream of M45.
L1348/PF6521/YSC0000238 not listed Found ancestral in a hg J-L147 person (454 Y enrichment)
L762/PF6450/YSC0000258 not listed Found ancestral in a hg I-L388 person (454 Y enrichment)
PF2608 not listed Extracted from genome study of Sardinian samples
F380/M1757/S27659 O Found in a hg (unk.) person. Close to M175.
F3008/M1441 O1b1 Found in a hg O2 person. Downstream of F1462.
F932/M1290 O1b1a1 Found in a hg O2 person. Likely syn. to PK4.
F536/M1251/PF5949 P Found in a hg (unk.) person. Upstream of M45.
P239/PF5930 P1 P239
P284 P1 P284
L779/PF5907/YSC0000251 P1~ Found ancestral in a hg J-L26 person (454 Y enrichment)
P229/PF6019 R .
P280 R .
S349.1 R Aka: L49.1
M306/PF6147/S1 R1 Ancestral in a hg R2 WTY participant
P236 R1 .
L506/PF6267 R1b1 derived near R-L23
M415/PF6251 R1b1 R1b*
L502/PF6487 R1b1a1a derived near R-L23
L752/PF6483 R1b1a1a Found in a hg-R-L21 person
P297/PF6398 R1b1a1a .
PF6451 R1b1a1a Extracted from genome study of Sardinian samples
PF6430 R1b1a1a2 Extracted from genome study of Sardinian samples
PF6497/YSC0000219 R1b1a1a2 Extracted from genome study of Sardinian samples
Z347 R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b2b beneath L48. parallel to L47.approx. with Z327-Z337
Z335 R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b2b1a~ beneath L48. parallel to L47.downstream of Z9.10. parallel to Z30. upstream of Z80-Z84
S484/Z48 R1b1a1a2a1a2b4~ Aka. Z48
Y1293 R2a3a2b2b2 Found from public sources
P202 S1a1b Below B255, peer to Y25979, above M230
M1186/PF5864 unknown unknown
M1216/PF5908 unknown unknown
M3637/PF2589/V186 unknown unknown
M3751/PF2748 unknown unknown

sktibo
07-08-2017, 04:06 PM
Will you post a screenshot of your Fatherline Coverage Map from LivingDNA? The map for DF19 at LivingDNA per the post by Dewsloth who is terminal for DF19 is identical to the map at LivingDNA for ajc347 who is terminal for P312 at LivingDNA. There is a link to the LivingDNA results of ajc347 under each of his posts.

If I were able to post screenshots I would, it seems that my limit is 15 kb, so no matter how small I make them I cannot post

07-08-2017, 04:11 PM
If I were able to post screenshots I would, it seems that my limit is 15 kb, so no matter how small I make them I cannot post

I think you can delete your old ones, from your profile, that’s what I did.

sktibo
07-08-2017, 04:16 PM
I think you can delete your old ones, from your profile, that’s what I did.

You mean go through old posts and delete images I've previously posted and then I'll be able to post new ones?

ArmandoR1b
07-08-2017, 04:18 PM
If I were able to post screenshots I would, it seems that my limit is 15 kb, so no matter how small I make them I cannot post

A solution, besides the one given by sgdavies, is you can post a screenshot to www.imgur.com then copy the URL that imgur gives you for the screenshot and paste it into a post here.

sktibo
07-08-2017, 04:46 PM
A solution, besides the one given by sgdavies, is you can post a screenshot to www.imgur.com then copy the URL that imgur gives you for the screenshot and paste it into a post here.

http://imgur.com/a/0DuxP

ollie444
07-08-2017, 04:55 PM
I used Excel to compare the SNPs with a Ybrowse csv file and combined the SNP with the ISOGG haplogroup column from the Ybrowse file and the comment column from the Ybrowse file.

Most of the differences in the files between you and your grandfather are SNPs far upstream from your terminal SNP such as in haplogroup BT and haplogroup CT that all haplogroup R people are positive for. There are others that are false positives such as P170 in haplogroup E and S484/Z48 which is a subclade of U152.

The following are in your report that aren't in your grandfather's report.



This is what is in your grandfather's report that you don't have in your report.

thank you

07-08-2017, 05:00 PM
You mean go through old posts and delete images I've previously posted and then I'll be able to post new ones?

Go to settings, then on left of screen, there on the bottom is attachments it says how much space you have used, just select all and delete, you then got lots of free space.

ArmandoR1b
07-08-2017, 05:29 PM
I'm that tester and I can't see P312 amongst my results. As Im M222+ shouldnt I be positive for it?


Yes Robert, you are P312 + You are also L21+ DF49+ and DF23+ and Z2961+ on your way to M222+

Will one of you post a screenshot of your Fatherline Coverage Map so we can compare it to a P312 map like the one Sktibo posted here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=257367&viewfull=1#post257367)?

ArmandoR1b
07-08-2017, 05:40 PM
http://imgur.com/a/0DuxP

So far that's identical to the P312 map for ajc347 and the DF19 map for Dewsloth. I expect the L21 and U152 maps to be different but I'm hoping that we can get a verification of that. Has anyone that is positive for U152 posted here?

edit: Nevermind about U152. Celt_?? posted an image here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245958&viewfull=1#post245958) and Dewsloth quoted it here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245971&viewfull=1#post245971) and also posted a map of U106.

MacEochaidh
07-08-2017, 06:22 PM
Will one of you post a screenshot of your Fatherline Coverage Map so we can compare it to a P312 map like the one Sktibo posted here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=257367&viewfull=1#post257367)?

Here's mine.
17450

ArmandoR1b
07-08-2017, 06:23 PM
I sent them a mail regarding the fact that they didn't assign me to a subclade of U152; I asked them if I tested negative for subclades or that they did not test subclades. We'll see.


Hello U152 cousin :)

Me too with LivingDNA. I thought they would have at least got a subclade!

Is the Fatherline Coverage Map that LivingDNA has for each of you the same as the one posted by Celt_?? here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245958&viewfull=1#post245958)?

edit: Will you also post the images anyway? The numbers from his map are missing.

Pylsteen
07-08-2017, 06:40 PM
Is the Fatherline Coverage Map that LivingDNA has for each of you the same as the one posted by Celt_?? here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245958&viewfull=1#post245958)?


It looks the same; also percentages "North Italy 40%, Switzerland 30%" etc. I assume it is the U152 map.

ArmandoR1b
07-08-2017, 07:30 PM
It looks the same; also percentages "North Italy 40%, Switzerland 30%" etc. I assume it is the U152 map.

Are Ireland, England, Wales, Scotland, or Spain mentioned in the percentages?

Pylsteen
07-08-2017, 07:53 PM
Yes, England 10%, Ireland 5%, Spain 5%, Wales 5%, Scotland 5%.

ArmandoR1b
07-09-2017, 06:06 PM
Well, here's their response:

Thank you for contacting Living DNA.


This testing results in your haplogroup assignment, which is your "branch" of the human family tree, from your father's side. You will share an ancient (10s of thousands of years ago) ancestor with everyone who shares your haplogroup. ​The coverage map shows you a percentage of how many people in different areas around the world share the same haplogroup. The subclade detail of your results will depend on which of the markers that we test for end up positive for your DNA sample.

At this time we do not have information on the distribution of subclades. We are always finding new information and researching all the time. If we find more information that will benefit an individual will we update and upgrade the online portal. The online portal is there for life and will always be updated for free.

I hope this information helps.

Warm regards

Andy

It's so vague, I'm still not sure what they are trying to show me. For anyone out there who isn't familiar with DF19, the FTDNA DF19 Group members' MDKA map looks like this:
17087

And yet look at the Spanish/French percentages Living DNA gives in their report:

16800

What they've supplied doesn't look like DF19, and it doesn't look like P312. I don't have a problem with them not having enough information to give, but their lack of "showing their work" and explaining just what it is they're purporting to show is problematic. My major concern is what they have supplied would mislead someone who was just learning about YDNA for the first time.

His lack of specifics in the email makes me wonder if he even knows what Living DNA is trying to show. It could be DF27? What else has those percentages in those countries?

I might be stating the obvious now since you probably have already come to the same conclusion so I apologize ahead of time if that is the case.

Now that we have the maps from a P312+Z195- person and a P312+Z915+ person with the same maps as you I think it is a map of P312xL21xU152 even though it is a fairly low percent for Spain which made me think it was a map that excluded Z195+ people but included some other subclades of P312. We also have the raw results of a Z195 person and he does not have DF27 in his list of positive SNPs so it isn't tested.

The maps of U152, L21, and U106 are similar to the Busby et al. percentages that I pulled from their spreadsheet. There is about a 5 to 11% difference between the Busby et al. and the LivingDNA percentages depending on the haplogroup.

17466

LivingDNA England Ireland Spain France Germany
U106 35 na na 7 25
L21 15 60 na na 2
U152 10 5 5 na na
P312 7 6 35 32 7



Busby et al. England Ireland Spain France Germany
U106 25 5 2 5 20
L21 19 67 5 13 3
U152 9 2 5 14 12
P312xL21xU152 15 11 45 21 4

So the map that you were given was almost definitely a map of P312xL21xU152. That means that DF27, DF19, DF99, L238, and A9063 are all included in the haplogroup map that you were given but exclude L21 and U152. I agree that it is misleading to call that a map of haplogroup P312. In that sense, I agree that the rep at LivingDNA isn't aware of what is really being shown to you.

deadly77
07-10-2017, 10:32 AM
On my fatherline results, I got the assignment of I-Z2535, which isn't too far off so I didn't question it too much and we didn't have the option to download raw data until relatively recently. However, based on the experiences of people on this thread, I decided to email LivingDNA and ask what they test downstream of Z140 (my major subclade group of I-M253). They got back to me very quickly with a response that they test for Z141, S1953/Z2535 and L338 under Z140. They also told me that the test for roughly 140 markers under I-M253.

However, I'm L338+ at both FTDNA and YSEQ, but that's not showing up in either my LivingDNA page or my downloaded raw data. I can find S440/Z140, S1953/Z2535 but not Z141 in raw data. I've asked them if the L338 result was negative or a no call.

07-10-2017, 11:36 AM
I just emailed their support asking
"Can you tell me which markers LivingDNA test downstream of R-Z283"

MacUalraig
07-10-2017, 12:06 PM
Hopefully after a few more such emails they will just show us the whole list ;-)

deadly77
07-10-2017, 12:31 PM
On my fatherline results, I got the assignment of I-Z2535, which isn't too far off so I didn't question it too much and we didn't have the option to download raw data until relatively recently. However, based on the experiences of people on this thread, I decided to email LivingDNA and ask what they test downstream of Z140 (my major subclade group of I-M253). They got back to me very quickly with a response that they test for Z141, S1953/Z2535 and L338 under Z140. They also told me that the test for roughly 140 markers under I-M253.

However, I'm L338+ at both FTDNA and YSEQ, but that's not showing up in either my LivingDNA page or my downloaded raw data. I can find S440/Z140, S1953/Z2535 but not Z141 in raw data. I've asked them if the L338 result was negative or a no call.

Another quick response from their helpdesk:

"It looks like your data resulted in an 'inconclusive call' for I-L338 on our chip. This is likely due to a unreliable signal reading from your DNA sample."

deadly77
07-10-2017, 12:32 PM
Hopefully after a few more such emails they will just show us the whole list ;-)

Rather what I was hoping they would do ;)

07-10-2017, 04:33 PM
I just emailed their support asking
"Can you tell me which markers LivingDNA test downstream of R-Z283"

Here is LDNA’s response to my email.

Thank you for your enquiry.

We test for 18 markers "under" R-Z283. They are as follows:

M458/PF6241
L260/S222
Z280
S204/Z91
CTS8557/Z661
CTS91/S344/Z660
S205/Z92
CTS1211/S3357
P278/P278.1/P278.2
P278/P278.1/P278.2
CTS3402/S3361/V2670
L365/S468
S443/Z289
S221/Z284
L448/S200
S223/Z287
S345/Z288
S342/Z88

Telfermagne
07-15-2017, 01:52 AM
I dropped LivingDNA a note about the YDNA. On a good note they mirrored my full mito sequence result from FTDNA by assigning H3ap.

The note:
Good evening. I am *****, test reference LD0101566A. I have had my YDNA extensively tested using multiple sources (ftdna, britainsdna, and 23andme). I am in fact R-FGC847. This is a relatively recent discovery in the R-P312 world (FGC847 is downstream of DF99 which is downstream of P312). LivingDNA however stops at L151 which is upstream/ancestral to P312.

ArmandoR1b
07-15-2017, 02:50 AM
I dropped LivingDNA a note about the YDNA. On a good note they mirrored my full mito sequence result from FTDNA by assigning H3ap.

The note:
Good evening. I am *****, test reference LD0101566A. I have had my YDNA extensively tested using multiple sources (ftdna, britainsdna, and 23andme). I am in fact R-FGC847. This is a relatively recent discovery in the R-P312 world (FGC847 is downstream of DF99 which is downstream of P312). LivingDNA however stops at L151 which is upstream/ancestral to P312.Will you post a screenshot of your fatherline map before they update it with a map of P312? I'd like to see the percentages for each country.

Telfermagne
07-15-2017, 04:19 AM
Gotcha bra

ajc347
07-15-2017, 11:55 AM
I've been checking through the list of positive Y-SNP's in my updated Living DNA raw data and noticed that I have a S484/Z48+ result. Yfull list this as being downstream of U152. There is no evidence of my being positive for U152 in my Living DNA raw data and I've also tested U152- at YSEQ.

Would I be right in thinking that the Z48 result is most likely a false positive?

Pylsteen
07-15-2017, 12:17 PM
I've been checking through the list of positive Y-SNP's in my updated Living DNA raw data and noticed that I have a S484/Z48+ result. Yfull list this as being downstream of U152. There is no evidence of my being positive for U152 in my Living DNA raw data and I've also tested U152- at YSEQ.

Would I be right in thinking that the Z48 result is most likely a false positive?

Z48 also seems to occur with some people under R1a. I have it too, but it seems now it may be a false positive. Maybe I'm not Z56+ as theorized based on this Z48.

ArmandoR1b
07-15-2017, 01:13 PM
I've been checking through the list of positive Y-SNP's in my updated Living DNA raw data and noticed that I have a S484/Z48+ result. Yfull list this as being downstream of U152. There is no evidence of my being positive for U152 in my Living DNA raw data and I've also tested U152- at YSEQ.

Would I be right in thinking that the Z48 result is most likely a false positive?
Yes


Z48 also seems to occur with some people under R1a. I have it too, but it seems now it may be a false positive. Maybe I'm not Z56+ as theorized based on this Z48.

S484/Z48 is also a false positive in the results of a U106 person. See here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=257370&viewfull=1#post257370)

Also for an L21 person here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245863&viewfull=1#post245863)

and for an I1 person here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245894&viewfull=1#post245894)

ArmandoR1b
07-15-2017, 01:28 PM
Gotcha bra

Thanks. By the way, once LivingDNA realized that they gave a false negative for P312 to ajc347 you would think that they would go through all of the kits that potentially had a false negative for P312 and re-analyze them or re-run them. What a disappointment for such a major SNP. I bet the percentage of P312 per country is off because of it too.

Pylsteen
07-15-2017, 02:22 PM
Yes

S484/Z48 is also a false positive in the results of a U106 person. See here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=257370&viewfull=1#post257370)

Also for an L21 person here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245863&viewfull=1#post245863)

and for an I1 person here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=245894&viewfull=1#post245894)


That's a bummer though if it is false; I was already projecting descent from a Roman border soldier :P. Not sure yet though.

MacUalraig
07-18-2017, 10:44 AM
Has anyone been through ALL their raw Y calls? I just analysed one and found 25% were wrong ie false positives. wd be good to compare.

Pylsteen
07-18-2017, 10:56 AM
Has anyone been through ALL their raw Y calls? I just analysed one and found 25% were wrong ie false positives. wd be good to compare.


No not yet... I have looked at 40/376, and already 4 were false (pos for C, E). Might do that now.

07-18-2017, 10:58 AM
Has anyone been through ALL their raw Y calls? I just analysed one and found 25% were wrong ie false positives. wd be good to compare.

I got a feeling there a few false calls in there, im getting Y37 with ftdna, so will have more proof soon I hope.

MacUalraig
07-18-2017, 11:47 AM
I got a feeling there a few false calls in there, im getting Y37 with ftdna, so will have more proof soon I hope.

In a way but strs don't prove snps in themselves. You might get a confirmation hg thrown in (so called backbone test).

Pylsteen
07-18-2017, 12:01 PM
Ok, I went through my raw data; it went faster than I thought. It seems I have 39/376 false calls. Some of them I saw in other files too. Especially the Z-series had a lot of false calls. The percentage is lower than the file you looked at, but that's likely because so many snps for P and R were used.

Right calls (note: I did not refine below R, though I did see one false R2 call).

BT: 70
CT: 37
F: 27
HIJK: 1
IJK: 5
K: 4
P: 65
R: 128

False calls:
A0: 1 (V153)
A: 5 (L1009, L963, Z11892, Z11910, Z11916)
C: 13 (AM00847, CTS10083, CTS6203, CTS8148, CTS9679, F2211, F2434, F3707, F847, IMS-JST022455, V1580, Z18049.2, Z4145)
D: 1 (FGC6247)
E: 6 (AM01921.2, CTS3941, CTS4076, M10372.1, Z1759, Z3339.2)
G: 2 (CTS4244, Z3225)
J: 5 (F1167, F1381, F3358, P84.1, PF7372)
N: 4 (L58, P105, Z11010, Z19760)
O: 1 (F3424)
R (R2): 1 (L726)

ArmandoR1b
07-18-2017, 12:23 PM
Has anyone been through ALL their raw Y calls? I just analysed one and found 25% were wrong ie false positives. wd be good to compare.

I had looked at the Dibran's file for him. He has 42 out of 272 false positives



V153 A0a1
Z11010 A1 (not listed)
L963 A1b1a1a2
CTS10083 C
CTS6203 C
CTS9679 C
F2211 C
F847 C
V1580/Z3965 C
Z18049.2 C
IMS-JST022455 C1a1~
AM00847/AMM008/B65 C1b1a2
Z3604 D (not listed)
Z3701 D (not listed)
Z3704 D (not listed)
AM01921.2/S475.2/Z2983.2 E
CTS3199/M5455/PF1649 E
M10372.1/ZS6696.1 E
Z3339.2 E
Z21885 E (not listed)
Z15942 E1b1a1a1c2
Z6007 E1b1a1a1c2b2
M5106/PF2497 E1b1b1b1a1
CTS4076/Z1011 E2
Z3225 G1~
Z3236 G2a2b2a1a1c1a
Z4692 H1a1d2c2
Z12981 H3a1
F1167/PF4516/YSC0001296 J
F3358/PF4611/YSC0001316 J
P84.1 J (Notes)
PF7372 J2a1a2c2a
Z19760 N (not listed)
P105/P105 N1c1
L58 N1c1a1a1a2~
CTS647 O
F3424/M1489 O1b1a1
CTS9862 O2a2b1a2a1a3
M799 R (not listed)
CTS2229/PF6254 R1b1
S484/Z48 R1b1a1a2a1a2b4~
L726 R2a~

07-18-2017, 12:36 PM
I had looked at the Dibran's file for him. He has 42 out of 272 false positives

ArmandoR1b, so with a good amount of false positives, is it worth somebody pointing out this to livingDNA?, or do you think it falls within the Orion chips tolerance zone for false calls?

Pylsteen
07-18-2017, 12:42 PM
I notice much overlap with the false calls, so many false calls seem structural.

ArmandoR1b
07-18-2017, 01:00 PM
ArmandoR1b, so with a good amount of false positives, is it worth somebody pointing out this to livingDNA?, or do you think it falls within the Orion chips tolerance zone for false calls?

Some people could be affected by the false positives so I think it is a good idea to point out the false positives to LivingDNA. Most people aren't going to be affected by them though since they will have enough upstream SNPs that really are positive that are found in the test. Regardless, it's always best to get SNP testing with another company to compare the results.

MacUalraig
07-18-2017, 01:49 PM
picto22 hg and isogg tree page

hg isogg pg
AM00847/AMM008/B65 C C
AM01921.2/S475.2/Z2983.2 E E
CTS10083 C trunk
CTS109/M8948 CT trunk
CTS10946/M5804 CT trunk
CTS1217/M5597 CT trunk
CTS125/M5576 CT trunk
CTS1996/M5651 CT trunk
CTS2229/PF6254 R1b1 R
CTS3460/M5670 CT trunk
CTS3941/CTS3941/PF2135/PF2135 E1b E
CTS4076/Z1011 E2 E
CTS4443/M3696/PF2677 F trunk
CTS5318/M5690 CT trunk
CTS543/M5584 CT trunk
CTS6135/M3708/PF2693 F trunk
CTS6203 C trunk
CTS6252/M5700 CT trunk
CTS6378 C trunk
CTS6800/M5713 CT trunk
CTS7933/M5728 CT trunk
CTS8148 C trunk
CTS8243/M5736 CT trunk
CTS9679 C trunk
CTS9722/M5762 CT trunk
F1046/M3646/PF2610/YSC0001295 F trunk
F1167/PF4516/YSC0001296 J trunk
F1320/M3657/PF2621 F trunk
F1704/M3675/PF2651 F trunk
F1714/F1714/M3677/PF2653/PF2653 F trunk
F1767/M3683/PF2660 F trunk
F2075/PF2685 F trunk
F2837/M3726/PF2722 F trunk
F2993/M3737/PF2732/V3940 G trunk
F3335/M3754/PF2758 F trunk
F3424/M1489 O1b O
F3692/M3650 F trunk
F847 C trunk
FGC1599/S23720/Z7822 J trunk
K466 C1b C
L449/PF6223 R1a R
L726 R2 R
L882/M3749/PF2745 F trunk
L963 A1b A
M10372.1/ZS6696.1 E1a E
M213/P137/PF2673/Page38 F trunk
M2713/Z4171 H trunk
M2936/Z4273 H trunk
M2942/Z4276 H trunk
M2955/Z4282 H trunk
M2966/Z4292 H trunk
M299 BT trunk
M2992/Z4307 H trunk
M3052/Z4336 H trunk
M3062/Z4340 H trunk
M3603/PF3075 G trunk
M3637/PF2589/V186 F trunk
M3639/PF2591 F trunk
M3751/PF2748 F trunk
M5650 CT trunk
M5682 CT trunk
M5695/PF1417/V41 CT trunk
M5708 CT trunk
M5737/PF892 CT trunk
M5760 CT trunk
M5781/PF1040 CT trunk
M5788 CT trunk
M5809/PF1237 CT trunk
M5819 CT trunk
M5822 CT trunk
M8956 BT trunk
M8961 BT trunk
M8983 BT trunk
M8999 BT trunk
M9009 BT trunk
M9015 BT trunk
M9017 BT trunk
M9020 BT trunk
M9025 BT trunk
M9028 BT trunk
M9032 BT trunk
M9034 BT trunk
M9037 BT trunk
M9038 BT trunk
M9042 BT trunk
M9045 BT trunk
M9054 BT trunk
M9056 BT trunk
M9064 BT trunk
M9066 BT trunk
M9110 BT trunk
M9169 BT trunk
M9194.3 BT trunk
M9200 BT trunk
M9215 BT trunk
M9218 BT trunk
M9223 BT trunk
M9231 BT trunk
M9237 BT trunk
M9246 BT trunk
M9257 BT trunk
M9261 BT trunk
M9280 BT trunk
M9288/PF985 BT trunk
M9292 BT trunk
M9313 H2a1 H
M9317 BT trunk
M9341 BT trunk
M9348 BT trunk
M9380 BT trunk
M9387 BT trunk
P105/P105 N1a N
P135/PF2741 F trunk
P140 F trunk
P149 F trunk
P160/PF2618 F trunk
P161 F trunk
P187/PF2632 F trunk
P84.1 J J notes only?
P96 H2 H
PF2608 F trunk
PF7372 J
S484/Z48 R R
SRY10831.1 BT trunk
V153 A00 trunk
V1580/Z3965 C trunk
Z11010 N1a N
Z11892 A1b A
Z11910 A1b A
Z11916 A1b A
Z15942 E
Z1759 E
Z18049.2 C trunk
Z1853 J
Z19760 N
Z21885 E
Z3225 G
Z3339.2 E
Z3604 D
Z3701 D
Z40387 BT trunk
Z40389 BT
Z40392 BT
Z40393 BT
Z40394 BT
Z40395 BT
Z4145/Z4147 C trunk
Z4309 H trunk


0.255033557

Robert McBride
07-18-2017, 03:14 PM
I emailed Living DNA weeks ago about the mistakes on their phylogenetic tree below M222 and was told my message would be forwarded to the relevant department but it still hasn't been corrected .

ajc347
07-19-2017, 08:24 AM
Based upon results I received from FTDNA and YSEQ yesterday it would appear that the updated result of P312+ I received from Living DNA has actually turned out to be pretty accurate after all, as my FTDNA and YSEQ results indicate that I am negative for all currently known subclades under P312. :)

ArmandoR1b
07-19-2017, 04:15 PM
Based upon results I received from FTDNA and YSEQ yesterday it would appear that the updated result of P312+ I received from Living DNA has actually turned out to be pretty accurate after all, as my FTDNA and YSEQ results indicate that I am negative for all currently known subclades under P312. :)

Unfortunately that isn't the case for everyone that has a terminal SNP of P312+ at LivingDNA since one of those people is DF27+ from testing elsewhere.

sktibo
07-19-2017, 04:26 PM
Unfortunately that isn't the case for everyone that is has a terminal SNP of P312+ at LivingDNA since one of those people is DF27+ from testing elsewhere.

Not sure if I am who you are referencing, in case I am, I'm DF27 (R-Z195) at both Living DNA and Geno 2.0, and am happy to provide any data upon request

ArmandoR1b
07-19-2017, 05:58 PM
Not sure if I am who you are referencing, in case I am, I'm DF27 (R-Z195) at both Living DNA and Geno 2.0, and am happy to provide any data upon request

I was referencing a person that is negative for Z195 and positive for A2146. I found his results on another forum. 50-60% of the people that are positive for DF27 are negative for Z195. They show positive for ZZ12 in Alex Williamson's tree here (http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=31) but ZZ12 isn't tested by any chip based test and I don't know how many of the SNPs downstream from ZZ12 are tested by LivingDNA but I know at least one of them isn't and most probably aren't since many of them haven't been known about for very long.

In Alex's tree there are 160 DF27 people with a flag from the British Isles and 96 of them are ZZ12 (Z195-). So if most of LivingDNA's customers are from the British Isles it's likely that at least half of them that really are DF27 will show to be terminal for P312.

ajc347 do you have a list of the SNPs that LivingDNA tested you negative for downstream from P312 so we can see if any of them are downstream from ZZ12?

ajc347
07-19-2017, 07:32 PM
ajc347 do you have a list of the SNPs that LivingDNA tested you negative for downstream from P312 so we can see if any of them are downstream from ZZ12?

I don't have a list of negative SNP's from Living DNA I'm afraid Armando, only positive SNP results. I've been through them again and the only result I can find downstream of P312 is the previously established S484/Z48 false positive result.

MacUalraig
07-19-2017, 07:45 PM
Are they ever going to give out the full raw data or is this it?

sktibo
07-19-2017, 07:50 PM
Are they ever going to give out the full raw data or is this it?

I always get the impression they're on a steep learning curve or they hit a lot of snags doing things other companies don't usually have problems with... Thankfully for them, they have the most interesting/ entertaining test

Pylsteen
07-22-2017, 04:02 PM
I sent it back on Monday, so they haven't received it yet.

FTDNA received my kit (finally..)

07-22-2017, 05:13 PM
FTDNA received my kit (finally..)

My results are due between 14 Aug to 28 Aug.
:D

ajc347
08-04-2017, 08:32 PM
Following test results I've received from YSEQ this evening, I've finally been able to pin down my terminal SNP as being BY20474.

FTDNA list this as being under ZZ37 so it's hardly surprising that the chip Living DNA use was not able to detect this SNP. :)

Pylsteen
08-04-2017, 09:11 PM
Following test results I've received from YSEQ this evening, I've finally been able to pin down my terminal SNP as being BY20474.

FTDNA list this as being under ZZ37 so it's hardly surprising that the chip Living DNA use was not able to detect this SNP. :)


Cool! I had to look this up; according to Alex' tree, ZZ37 is a sister branch of DF99 and ZZ11 (>DF27, U152), all children of P312>Z40481.

Pylsteen
08-12-2017, 01:14 PM
Got the ftdna Y37 results; for at Y37 a few matches, GD4, with some L21+ Stewarts, which are probably matches because of mutation convergence. At 25 marker level, two Z56+ matches, with GD2, so not much yet! I'll likely have more information in september/october.

08-12-2017, 01:17 PM
Got the ftdna Y37 results; for at Y37 a few matches, GD4, with some L21+ Stewarts, which are probably matches because of mutation convergence. At 25 marker level, two Z56+ matches, with GD2, so not much yet! I'll likely have more information in september/october.

Will you stay with Y37, or upgrade to Y67?

Pylsteen
08-12-2017, 01:32 PM
Will you stay with Y37, or upgrade to Y67?

Mmm... the two Z56+ samples have a GD of 5 and 6 at Y37 level, and GD of 1 to each other.
Y67 would indeed give some more structure, maybe later; R1b is a jungle. Now was I very tempted by FTDNA's offers of this month, and, in a weak moment, I have ordered Big-Y :o ... I hope it will give some definite answers and a subclade, but I have to say, with so many British samples, there is a chance of ending up in a lonely branch.

08-12-2017, 01:39 PM
Fantastic! Big Y might be the way to go then for me too, but I might be in an even lonelier clade than you. :beerchug:

Amerijoe
08-12-2017, 02:20 PM
Fantastic! Big Y might be the way to go then for me too, but I might be in an even lonelier clade than you. :beerchug:

Steven, the BigY recently put me in a new subclade which was formed by including an Englishman and joined this week by an Irishman. I went from being classified Asian to having YDNA matches in the U.K. Not knowing my paternal line this test proved for me to be the most fruitful. This type of test is based on true science and not the novelty science of autosomal testing where conjecture is a major ingredient. :) Joe

ScorpioRising
08-12-2017, 02:42 PM
Anyone willing to share their livingdna raw data with me ? you can delete your genotype values.I would like to know which snps get tested...

deadly77
08-12-2017, 03:26 PM
Anyone willing to share their livingdna raw data with me ? you can delete your genotype values.I would like to know which snps get tested...

LivingDNA's raw data only gives the SNPs tested positive for, not the negative and no calls, so a single individual's raw data won't give you a good idea of coverage or what SNPs are tested. Their customer service is pretty responsive - I emailed them and they told me they tested 140 markers under I-M253/I1.

08-12-2017, 04:53 PM
Steven, the BigY recently put me in a new subclade which was formed by including an Englishman and joined this week by an Irishman. I went from being classified Asian to having YDNA matches in the U.K. Not knowing my paternal line this test proved for me to be the most fruitful. This type of test is based on true science and not the novelty science of autosomal testing where conjecture is a major ingredient. :) Joe

Thanks Joe,
I love how this is all still evolving, I will decide on the merits on the Big Y in the next few weeks, and months, but it’s nice to be part of something and possibly being the first in your clade.

08-12-2017, 06:43 PM
Now was I very tempted by FTDNA's offers of this month, and, in a weak moment, I have ordered Big-Y :o ... I hope it will give some definite answers and a subclade

Do you have an idea when you will receive your Big Y? So correct me if I’m wrong the sale price is 395 USD?
Is that the usual sale price or has it been cheaper?
I’m really considering it... but is it still possible that my clade is just very old and won’t change from Z283?

I suppose I should put this in the other thread, sorry if I’m going of thread topic.

Pylsteen
08-12-2017, 06:56 PM
Do you have an idea when you will receive your Big Y? So correct me if I’m wrong the sale price is 395 USD?
Is that the usual sale price or has it been cheaper?
I’m really considering it... but is it still possible that my clade is just very old and won’t change from Z283?

I suppose I should put this in the other thread, sorry if I’m going of thread topic.

(Yes, I make myself guilty too at using this thread for non-LivingDNA Y, but ok...)

I ordered last week, they give a date somewhere in October, could be earlier as I expected Y37 early September and got that one now. It is $395 this month (instead of $575 normally), still expensive (as is this addictive hobby), but down enough to persuade me this time.
Since you seem to have a basal lineage, it all depends if you have matches: if you are the only one in your lineage, you still will be assigned as Z283, but with loads of private SNPs. When a far match pops up, the SNPs you both share will enter public space, and you both form a clade, at least that's how I understand it.

08-12-2017, 07:06 PM
Ahh, ok thanks Phlsteen, ok that makes sense, at least I would sort of know what to expect, and not be disappointed again, I’ll see what Michal the R1a Admin, advice is first, and maybe I’ll just do it for Wales :beerchug:

FionnSneachta
08-14-2017, 10:57 AM
(Yes, I make myself guilty too at using this thread for non-LivingDNA Y, but ok...)

I ordered last week, they give a date somewhere in October, could be earlier as I expected Y37 early September and got that one now. It is $395 this month (instead of $575 normally), still expensive (as is this addictive hobby), but down enough to persuade me this time.
Since you seem to have a basal lineage, it all depends if you have matches: if you are the only one in your lineage, you still will be assigned as Z283, but with loads of private SNPs. When a far match pops up, the SNPs you both share will enter public space, and you both form a clade, at least that's how I understand it.

I'm glad to hear that you got your test back early. My results are due on the 11th of September. I'm hoping that I'll get them before September so that I can avail of the Big Y sale. If I don't get the haplogroup that I'm expecting to get, I might not bother with the Big Y but if it is the expected haplogroup, I really want to get the Big Y now when it's on such a good offer.

08-14-2017, 11:48 AM
Just ordered Big Y, I don't expect the Haplogroup to change, but maybe it will advance my clade branch for the future, and maybe find new matches and origin in future.

Robert1
08-14-2017, 08:32 PM
Oh good, sgdavies, I'm always hoping for another match! :) Well, not likely as it's my mtDNA that leads to Wales, my Y leads back to Isle of Skye.

No doubt there will be many useful things you'll soon learn plus you're set for future discoveries.

Pylsteen
08-14-2017, 09:11 PM
The future will bring us a lot. Though they are testing DNA for about 20 years by now, remember, we are still the pioneers.

Wal
08-15-2017, 07:11 AM
They replied; indeed, certain subclades of U152 (like L2) are on the marker list. Their Y-person is now on holiday, so I might hear more later.

On holiday! That explains why my recent questions about my Y-DNA result a taking a long time to answer.
The first lines of my Y-DNA date show the following...
AM00847/AMM008/B65
AM01921.2/S475.2/Z2983.2
CTS10083

LivingDNA gave the first result as C1b1a2 then a few weeks later amended the result to C-V20 (which is C1a2) after my first question to the Help line. I suppose the B65 in the list at line one gave the reason for assigning C1b1a2. The data has no markers for C1b1 but has C1a markers including V20. Hence my question.

It will be interesting to see what reply I get.


On an earlier test AncestryDNA gave the Y-Haplogroup as an "estimated E".

I have Scottish male ancestry traced with no paternity breaks to 1690. All men were living in South West Scotland in the Kirkgunzean area prior to 1835. I live in South Australia. I wonder if some interpreter looked at my location and took that as a hint to assign Hap C?.

08-15-2017, 09:34 AM
Oh good, sgdavies, I'm always hoping for another match! :) Well, not likely as it's my mtDNA that leads to Wales, my Y leads back to Isle of Skye.

No doubt there will be many useful things you'll soon learn plus you're set for future discoveries.

Unfortunately im pretty sure there will not be a match, R1b - L21 is much better defined that R1a - Z283, I might in fact have no matches at all :(

Amerijoe
08-15-2017, 12:14 PM
Just ordered Big Y, I don't expect the Haplogroup to change, but maybe it will advance my clade branch for the future, and maybe find new matches and origin in future.

Steven, congrats on your decision. British R1a is near the bottom of Isle's representative haplogroup pile. When I began my search, my previous subclade R1a-Y15121, there were two matches in Britain representing two Tamils from Sri Lanka. That was a real head scratcher. At that point there were about five individuals attached to the clade. Here I am about two years later with a new subclade joined by two U.K. Citizens. From Sri Lanka back to the Isle, that is what full ydna testing has accomplished. Just received an email from a prospective Y6291 gentlemen with a phone number to call regarding BigY testing. He mentioned 9 hr. time difference, so am guessing maybe, Australia. So, Steven, you never know what will unfold until you take that leap. Good luck to you My friend. :) Joe

08-15-2017, 01:10 PM
Good luck to you My friend. :) Joe

Thanks Joe :beerchug: