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chelle
02-09-2017, 09:51 PM
My initial thoughts on the long awaited results...
I was surprised my Northwest Scotland percentage was so low, I thought for sure that would be a large chunk given some of my research.
I was sad to see no Cornish. I remain hopeful the complete option will show even 1 percent. :)
I was really surprised to see such a high amount of French listed!
I was bummed to see that for now so much is listed as unassigned. I remain hopeful that again, the complete option and time will show different results.
I was shocked at how high Yorkshire, Devon, and East Anglia were. I expected maybe a percent or two of Yorkshire and Devon, but never would have expected these amounts. All in all this has been a very fun ride on the DNA test train and I can't wait to see the new developments with this company. :)


Europe 97.9%
Great Britain and Ireland 52%
South Central England 10%
Ireland 7.4%
Devon 7%
North Yorkshire 6.8%
East Anglia 6.3%
Southeast England 3.1%
Northwest Scotland 2.6%
South Yorkshire 2.2%
South Wales Border 1.6%
Aberdeenshire 1.5%
South Wales 1.3%
Northwest England 1.1%
Lincolnshire 1%
Europe (North and West) 30.8%
France 28.9%
Scandinavia 1.9%
Europe (unassigned) 15%
World (unassigned) 2.1%

chelle
02-09-2017, 10:15 PM
For comparison
Ancestry DNA results:


Africa North < 1%
Europe West 38%
Ireland 21%
European Jewish 13%
Italy/Greece 9%
Scandinavia 6%
Great Britain 4%
Europe East 2%
Iberian Peninsula 2%
Finland/Northwest Russia 1%
Middle East 3%

* Also if I click on each individual test region I get less than 1% of Melanesia and South Asian

23andme results:

British & Irish 44.8%
French & German 11.8%
Scandinavian 1.2%
Broadly Northwestern European 15.0%
Ashkenazi Jewish 22.4%
Eastern European 1.2%
Southern European 0.8%
Iberian < 0.1%
Broadly Southern European 0.7%
Broadly European 2.1%
West African 0.6%
Broadly South Asian 0.1%

FTDNA results:

Western and Central European 50%
British Isles 20%
Eastern Europe 7%
Scandinavia 4%
Ashkenazi Diaspora 17%
North Africa 2%

DNAland results:

Northwest European 53%
Mediterranean Islander 17%
Ashkenazi 10%
Southwestern European 6.4%
Sardinian 3.8%
North Slavic 6.4%
North African 2.9%


Quite the variety of results huh?

sktibo
02-09-2017, 10:49 PM
Interesting results Chelle, welcome to the "missing NW Scotland percentage club" it's a side branch of the "uncool" club. Looks like they really don't have enough samples in that area. If I understand Calas's results correctly, they're mostly NW Scot and only got 10.5%. Interesting that your French showed up, I've been waiting to see if anyone would get any. Most of my DNA circles on ancestry are with my French ancestors but I've only got about 11% unassigned Europe
Jealous that you got a decent chunk of Irish though. Want to trade for it?

chelle
02-09-2017, 11:08 PM
Interesting results Chelle, welcome to the "missing NW Scotland percentage club" it's a side branch of the "uncool" club. Looks like they really don't have enough samples in that area. If I understand Calas's results correctly, they're mostly NW Scot and only got 10.5%. Interesting that your French showed up, I've been waiting to see if anyone would get any. Most of my DNA circles on ancestry are with my French ancestors but I've only got about 11% unassigned Europe
Jealous that you got a decent chunk of Irish though. Want to trade for it?

I actually pig snorted at the "side branch of the "uncool" club" part. My last name comes from the Jura area, but as for any recent ancestry I have only found a couple of possible ancestors that might have come from France and Germany within Living DNA's timeline. On Living DNA's site it said this about the region and if the French was higher than expected.
France

This genetic mixture approximately covers the area that is now France, which showcases a colourful history of migration, invasion and expansion. From Western European tribes to invading Vikings, France has been far from isolated. This location has an exciting past, and there is evidence of it being inhabited by another human species - the Neanderthal. Until the New Stone Age, the inhabitants of what is now France would have been nomadic hunter gatherers, foraging and hunting to survive. With the great expansion of people east to west across Europe came a great transition to this hunter gatherer lifestyle - farming.

From the Iron Age until the Roman conquest, what we now know as France was ruled by the Gauls - a series of tribes that were dominant across what is now France, Belgium and Germany. The Gauls became Romanised after the conquests of Caesar from 58 BC. The Gaulish language diminished and was replaced by Latin, which would ultimately form the basis for the French language spoken today. The Germanic Frank tribes moved in, overpowering Roman Gaul. The Viking settlements of the 10th and 11th centuries led to the creation of Normandy, serving as a base for voyage and expansion.

Technical Note

The DNA of people from France in our reference dataset is intermediate between Northern and Southern European DNA, with few genetic regions or mutations that are unique to French people.

If you have French ancestry inferred that you didn’t expect: We have observed that mixtures of British and Italian ancestry can sometimes be partly mistaken for French. Other mixtures such as of Germanic and Spanish ancestry involving countries neighbouring France may behave similarly. These issues are because it is difficult to tell apart having mixed ancestry recently, compared to having French ancestry causing sharing of DNA with people from similar regions, a little further in the past. French ancestry is also similar to British ancestry for people who have ancestry from all over the UK.

If you have French ancestry but it was not inferred as strongly as you expected: French ancestry will only be perfectly recovered if you resemble the French individuals in our panel, from the North of the country. Ancestry from other regions of France will use some of the neighbouring populations. South East England is the most common substitute from the UK.

My theory based on that, is that what if my Jewish ancestry that sometimes comes through as Italian on other tests, is causing the higher French result. Just a possibilty.

Now as to your regional trade...what is on offer?

sktibo
02-09-2017, 11:26 PM
I actually pig snorted at the "side branch of the "uncool" club" part. My last name comes from the Jura area, but as for any recent ancestry I have only found a couple of possible ancestors that might have come from France and Germany within Living DNA's timeline. On Living DNA's site it said this about the region and if the French was higher than expected.
France

This genetic mixture approximately covers the area that is now France, which showcases a colourful history of migration, invasion and expansion. From Western European tribes to invading Vikings, France has been far from isolated. This location has an exciting past, and there is evidence of it being inhabited by another human species - the Neanderthal. Until the New Stone Age, the inhabitants of what is now France would have been nomadic hunter gatherers, foraging and hunting to survive. With the great expansion of people east to west across Europe came a great transition to this hunter gatherer lifestyle - farming.

From the Iron Age until the Roman conquest, what we now know as France was ruled by the Gauls - a series of tribes that were dominant across what is now France, Belgium and Germany. The Gauls became Romanised after the conquests of Caesar from 58 BC. The Gaulish language diminished and was replaced by Latin, which would ultimately form the basis for the French language spoken today. The Germanic Frank tribes moved in, overpowering Roman Gaul. The Viking settlements of the 10th and 11th centuries led to the creation of Normandy, serving as a base for voyage and expansion.

Technical Note

The DNA of people from France in our reference dataset is intermediate between Northern and Southern European DNA, with few genetic regions or mutations that are unique to French people.

If you have French ancestry inferred that you didn’t expect: We have observed that mixtures of British and Italian ancestry can sometimes be partly mistaken for French. Other mixtures such as of Germanic and Spanish ancestry involving countries neighbouring France may behave similarly. These issues are because it is difficult to tell apart having mixed ancestry recently, compared to having French ancestry causing sharing of DNA with people from similar regions, a little further in the past. French ancestry is also similar to British ancestry for people who have ancestry from all over the UK.

If you have French ancestry but it was not inferred as strongly as you expected: French ancestry will only be perfectly recovered if you resemble the French individuals in our panel, from the North of the country. Ancestry from other regions of France will use some of the neighbouring populations. South East England is the most common substitute from the UK.

My theory based on that, is that what if my Jewish ancestry that sometimes comes through as Italian on other tests, is causing the higher French result. Just a possibilty.

Now as to your regional trade...what is on offer?

I've got some tasty "unassigned Europe" here at about 11%. You just don't know what's in that box! Are you a gambler?
I'm glad someone finally appreciates my sense of humour! (he said glaring at his -almost- wife). To be honest I'm relieved that so far, no one has received an expected percentage for the NW Scotland category. I guess it'll be like the initial rush all over again when Living DNA completes their Scottish DNA project and unleashes the results upon us? This DNA game is wild.
Regardless, I still think it's the most accurate autosomal test yet, and I love how they include technical notes about the DNA categories like what you've shared with France. That's a big step up. It sounds like France is a very mixed bag, who knows what that result really means? (well, going off your 23andme... I'm just shy of 9% french on paper and 23andme gave me 8.1%.. so I'm assuming their French and German category for French is not too shabby. are you around 11% French on paper?

chelle
02-10-2017, 12:13 AM
I've got some tasty "unassigned Europe" here at about 11%. You just don't know what's in that box! Are you a gambler?
I'm glad someone finally appreciates my sense of humour! (he said glaring at his -almost- wife). To be honest I'm relieved that so far, no one has received an expected percentage for the NW Scotland category. I guess it'll be like the initial rush all over again when Living DNA completes their Scottish DNA project and unleashes the results upon us? This DNA game is wild.
Regardless, I still think it's the most accurate autosomal test yet, and I love how they include technical notes about the DNA categories like what you've shared with France. That's a big step up. It sounds like France is a very mixed bag, who knows what that result really means? (well, going off your 23andme... I'm just shy of 9% french on paper and 23andme gave me 8.1%.. so I'm assuming their French and German category for French is not too shabby. are you around 11% French on paper?

I will gamble on some of that unknown if you throw in a pinch of the Orkney, because that seems cool and different than the norm. Not really sure what my French percentage is on paper. I suppose if you look at the generic Europe West on my other tests and were to just call it French as Living Dna has it could fit, but yeah...no clue. I get what you mean about the Scottish. I am hoping as more people are in the system the results get a bit more fine tuned. Can't wait till the Irish project is complete too. Do you happen to remember if on the other page someone had said anything about them letting us transfer over 23andme results at a later date to be analyzed? I would love to submit my dad's, but I really don't want to pay for another test for him and wait a few months again for results. And tell your fiance your humor is like a fine wine and will only get better with age. haha

sktibo
02-10-2017, 12:29 AM
No deal Chelle, you can't have Orkney. I won't part with a drop of it. I think my kilmuir ancestor is in that mix too as he's way up north. I also can't wait to go to Orkney, and irritate a local by telling him "my ancestor came from here" I'll tell her that wine joke. She'll hate it. Might even WINE about it.
Living DNA will be accepting autosomal transfers in the future, but i'm not sure about any details beyond that

A Norfolk L-M20
02-10-2017, 12:55 AM
Interesting results Chelle, welcome to the "missing NW Scotland percentage club" it's a side branch of the "uncool" club. Looks like they really don't have enough samples in that area. If I understand Calas's results correctly, they're mostly NW Scot and only got 10.5%. Interesting that your French showed up, I've been waiting to see if anyone would get any. Most of my DNA circles on ancestry are with my French ancestors but I've only got about 11% unassigned Europe
Jealous that you got a decent chunk of Irish though. Want to trade for it?

I'm sure that Calas will correct me if I'm off the mark, but i think that he is only documented 50% Scottish, not all from the North-West, and that percentage might include some Irish. My East Anglian results are well short. I estimated a "conservative" 77% East Anglian of documentary ancestors over the past 300 years - but Living DNA gave me only 39%. Still, they got pretty close I feel, for an auDNA test.

ADW_1981
02-10-2017, 01:36 AM
Personally, I think your 1/4 Ashkenazi ancestry is throwing off the LivingDNA results somehow. 23andME has a fairly good test for Ashkenazi with a large reference set. Even the "French & German" category at 23andME, while unreliable as a whole, should not translate to 28% at LivingDNA when it shows up only as 11% on the former.

Calas
02-10-2017, 01:37 AM
I'm sure that Calas will correct me if I'm off the mark, but i think that he is only documented 50% Scottish, not all from the North-West, and that percentage might include some Irish. My East Anglian results are well short. I estimated a "conservative" 77% East Anglian of documentary ancestors over the past 300 years - but Living DNA gave me only 39%. Still, they got pretty close I feel, for an auDNA test.

Hey, I heard my name.


You're right though. If we rounded about 50% ancestry. 60% Highland/Irish on dad's side, about 40% Scottish on mum's side. Hers is about 60% Aberdeenshire/Perth/Fife and 40% Lowlands. But I agree yours are definitely much further off in a way than mine are.

Still, I may have said in my post I was expecting different, but the results are still passable. No real headscratchers. The only thing I am curious about really is my South Asian Sindh as a cousin who got his results yesterday has Burusho. Asked them to clarify what exactly makes the difference on Living DNA.


Besides as MacUalraig & I both said in my post the Scottish references have potential to be limited, and skewed even, anyways. There has been a lot of movement in Scotland in the last 300 or so years. Highland Clearances, Jacobitism, England-Scotland Union, etc. A friend of the family's bought bushland in Alberta years ago for dirt cheap compared to market place. The significance? Scotland was once, and still is in some places, dirt cheap to the English compared to England.

chelle
02-10-2017, 04:21 AM
Personally, I think your 1/4 Ashkenazi ancestry is throwing off the LivingDNA results somehow. 23andME has a fairly good test for Ashkenazi with a large reference set. Even the "French & German" category at 23andME, while unreliable as a whole, should not translate to 28% at LivingDNA when it shows up only as 11% on the former.

See,
That is what I think too. 23andme does seem to have it the most accurate on the Jewish part of things. BTW as a side note, do you know how hard it is to weed through all my matches for that side of the family? Ugh....I don't even bother really anymore.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
02-10-2017, 06:50 AM
I've got some tasty "unassigned Europe" here at about 11%. You just don't know what's in that box! Are you a gambler?
I'm glad someone finally appreciates my sense of humour! (he said glaring at his -almost- wife). To be honest I'm relieved that so far, no one has received an expected percentage for the NW Scotland category. I guess it'll be like the initial rush all over again when Living DNA completes their Scottish DNA project and unleashes the results upon us? This DNA game is wild.
Regardless, I still think it's the most accurate autosomal test yet, and I love how they include technical notes about the DNA categories like what you've shared with France. That's a big step up. It sounds like France is a very mixed bag, who knows what that result really means? (well, going off your 23andme... I'm just shy of 9% french on paper and 23andme gave me 8.1%.. so I'm assuming their French and German category for French is not too shabby. are you around 11% French on paper?

Well my NW Scottish is unexpected but I think it just may be due to population similarity maybe? :) John

sktibo
02-10-2017, 07:13 AM
Well my NW Scottish is unexpected but I think it just may be due to population similarity maybe? :) John

I think you stole our NW scottish! kidding of course, it could be. The more I think about it the more questions and possibilities arise. It's not perfect, no aDNA test is, but it certainly seems better to me than the other options.

avalon
02-10-2017, 08:18 AM
Besides as MacUalraig & I both said in my post the Scottish references have potential to be limited, and skewed even, anyways. There has been a lot of movement in Scotland in the last 300 or so years. Highland Clearances, Jacobitism, England-Scotland Union, etc. A friend of the family's bought bushland in Alberta years ago for dirt cheap compared to market place. The significance? Scotland was once, and still is in some places, dirt cheap to the English compared to England.

I remember when the POBI paper was released a couple of years ago, we discussed the lack of Scottish sampling then.

My own view at the time was that the POBI people simply struggled to recruit volunteers in the Scottish Highlands who satisfied the criteria of having all 4 grandparents born in a 40 mile radius or whatever it was. I can't think of another reason why the Scottish dataset is sparse compared rest of UK.

Like you and others have said, there are probably a lot of people living in the Highlands who don't have deep ancestry in the area, English retirees , etc, plus it is just a very sparsely populated area.

ollie444
02-10-2017, 09:12 AM
See,
That is what I think too. 23andme does seem to have it the most accurate on the Jewish part of things. BTW as a side note, do you know how hard it is to weed through all my matches for that side of the family? Ugh....I don't even bother really anymore.

In regards to Jewish ancestry, I think Living DNA said they were only doing results by geographical region (at least for the time being). I suppose they might make a clear distinction in the future.

chelle
02-10-2017, 09:41 AM
In regards to Jewish ancestry, I think Living DNA said they were only doing results by geographical region (at least for the time being). I suppose they might make a clear distinction in the future.

Yes,
They mentioned that on the forum here. I just was unsure what that would mean. For instance, they came to the U.S. in late 1800's/early 1900's from Russia. So I wasn't sure if that meant Russia would show on the results, or western Europe, or Italy, Spain, North Africa, etc.....I guess if that 17% of mine that is currently unassigned gets labeled, then I can try and piece it all together to get a clearer picture.

Calas
02-10-2017, 10:44 AM
Well my NW Scottish is unexpected but I think it just may be due to population similarity maybe? :) John

Likely Welsh & Highland Scots should be, to degree, similar. Gaels inhabited an area underneath Galloway, which was Brythonic, but was pretty much the northernmost tip of Wales. There's also the very simple fact that as the Nords inhabited the Highlands the Gaels would have fled in one of two directions. East to the Picts or in a southerly direction.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
02-10-2017, 11:19 AM
Likely Welsh & Highland Scots should be, to degree, similar. Gaels inhabited an area underneath Galloway, which was Brythonic, but was pretty much the northernmost tip of Wales. There's also the very simple fact that as the Nords inhabited the Highlands the Gaels would have fled in one of two directions. East to the Picts or in a southerly direction.

I get SW Scotland too. Maybe there are still some Strathclyde Welsh up around that way. :) John

MacEochaidh
02-10-2017, 04:23 PM
Excuse if I'm being repetitive, but I'm new to the Living DNA test. My test kit is on its way to be processed as I write this.

After all of your collective experience, would you say that the Living DNA results are more similar to FTDNA My Origins, 23andMe Ancestry Composition, Ancestry DNA Ethnicity Estimate, or DNA.Land's Ancestry Report? Below are my results from other companies. My known ancestry is Irish and Scot 75% / French Canadian 25%.

Thank you!

13950139511394913952

A Norfolk L-M20
02-10-2017, 04:53 PM
Excuse if I'm being repetitive, but I'm new to the Living DNA test. My test kit is on its way to be processed as I write this.

After all of your collective experience, would you say that the Living DNA results are more similar to FTDNA My Origins, 23andMe Ancestry Composition, Ancestry DNA Ethnicity Estimate, or DNA.Land's Ancestry Report? Below are my results from other companies. My known ancestry is Irish and Scot 75% / French Canadian 25%.

Thank you!

13950139511394913952

Totally different, and in my case, far, far closer to the documented record. If you want to click on the link in my signature, and scroll down to "the Genetics", you'll see a comparison. However, in my East Anglian English case, in very brief summary:

FT-DNA FF My Origins: are barmy. Totally off the radar.
23andMe AC: gets the Irish / Scottish well, but totally in denial over English ancestry. It works, but only if you throw the white paper in the bin, and interpret the percentages as medieval or earlier population background admixture.
DNA.land: No. Just no. Really wants us all to be Balkans and Finnish.

It depends on your ancestry as well. Some populations get better results than others. Us Europeans as a whole, have had a lot of stirring of the cauldron over the few thousand years.

For myself, the Living DNA results were quite different. Sure, even Living DNA appear to have some weird background population signalling going on. But to a lesser extent - and for those of us with British ancestry - this wonderful zooming into sub regional level. They did still see me as a bit atypical as an Englishman. A bit Continental, and a bit Southern European - that is a common theme across all results. However, they gave me 74% British, as against FT-DNA 36%, and 23andMe 32% (B&I).

sktibo
02-10-2017, 08:43 PM
Excuse if I'm being repetitive, but I'm new to the Living DNA test. My test kit is on its way to be processed as I write this.

After all of your collective experience, would you say that the Living DNA results are more similar to FTDNA My Origins, 23andMe Ancestry Composition, Ancestry DNA Ethnicity Estimate, or DNA.Land's Ancestry Report? Below are my results from other companies. My known ancestry is Irish and Scot 75% / French Canadian 25%.

Thank you!

13950139511394913952

For me living DNA landed in between Ancestry and 23. It's the closest to my paper trail assuming my unassigned Europe turns out to be French. Ftdna is out of the field compared to them. I think Chelle got a large French percentage, so far she's the first with any in that category on here I think. Will be interesting to see your results

wombatofthenorth
02-12-2017, 09:30 PM
Excuse if I'm being repetitive, but I'm new to the Living DNA test. My test kit is on its way to be processed as I write this.

After all of your collective experience, would you say that the Living DNA results are more similar to FTDNA My Origins, 23andMe Ancestry Composition, Ancestry DNA Ethnicity Estimate, or DNA.Land's Ancestry Report? Below are my results from other companies. My known ancestry is Irish and Scot 75% / French Canadian 25%.

Thank you!

13950139511394913952

For you it looks like Ancestry did the best and DNA.LAND the worst.

chelle
02-14-2017, 10:26 AM
1406914070140711407214073

My wegene results from 23andme results and ancestry. I am not sure which results represent each company. Sorry.

chelle
02-14-2017, 10:27 AM
1406914070140711407214073

My wegene results from 23andme results and ancestry. I am not sure which results represent each company. Sorry.

14074

and the last file