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vineviz
08-09-2012, 01:52 PM
The DNA project aimed at understanding the ancestry of the Anglesey Bonesetter as apparently attributed this ancestry to the Caucaus and a clade of R-P312 called R-S250.

http://www.angleseybonesetters.co.uk/aaCombined_Bones_Reports_Issued.pdf

Jim Wilson et al. sequenced the Y and found 13 novel SNPs in this lineage that, so far, have not appeared in any of the 1,000+ samples WIlson has access to. They'd seem to be good candidates for Eastern European R-P312 lineages.

Vince

David
08-09-2012, 11:23 PM
The DNA project aimed at understanding the ancestry of the Anglesey Bonesetter as apparently attributed this ancestry to the Caucaus and a clade of R-P312 called R-S250.

http://www.angleseybonesetters.co.uk/aaCombined_Bones_Reports_Issued.pdf

Jim Wilson et al. sequenced the Y and found 13 novel SNPs in this lineage that, so far, have not appeared in any of the 1,000+ samples WIlson has access to. They'd seem to be good candidates for Eastern European R-P312 lineages.

Vince

S225 == Z225
S227 == Z195

--david

vineviz
08-09-2012, 11:32 PM
Thanks, David. I'm leaning towards the conclusion that the Ossetian connection is a red herring.

David
08-10-2012, 02:33 AM
I've sent a message to Dr Wilson to see if there is any information he might be willing to make available about S250 and the 13 novel SNPs.

--david

corner
08-10-2012, 10:35 AM
That's a great story. They say the following in the paper;


The distribution of S250* Y chromosomes (which carry S250, but not S225 or S227, i.e. the
bone setter lineage) is not well defined, but research both as part of this project and reported
by others show it to be present in Spain, France, England, Switzerland, Italy, Bohemia and
the Ukraine in small numbers of individuals so far tested. The frequency appears to be in the
couple of % range.

S250 might be DF27? Those are the same origin locations for the latest DF27 results (Spain, France, England, Switzerland, Italy, Bohemia and the Ukraine) in the DF27 section of the FTDNA P312 and Subclades Project; link (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/default.aspx?section=yresults).

If so, it will be very interesting for those P312 DF27* to know about the 13 novel SNPs.

David
08-10-2012, 03:27 PM
That's a great story. They say the following in the paper;



S250 might be DF27? Those are the same origin locations for the latest DF27 results (Spain, France, England, Switzerland, Italy, Bohemia and the Ukraine) in the DF27 section of the FTDNA P312 and Subclades Project; link (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/default.aspx?section=yresults).

If so, it will be very interesting for those P312 DF27* to know about the 13 novel SNPs.

Yes, Jim Wilson confirmed that S250 and DF27 are one and the same. Currently 12 of the novel SNPs are included in the BritainsDNA.com Illumina chip test. The position information for the novel SNPs is not currently publicly available, but Jim indicated it likely would be at some point, after he has worked out some details with the Bone Setter project.

Regards,
david

GoldenHind
08-29-2012, 06:01 PM
On the subject of new P312 SNPs, I am told that BritainsDNA has found what they term S389 in three P312 individuals from Scotland. Does anyone know anything about this and whether it is known by any other designation?

David
08-30-2012, 05:49 PM
On the subject of new P312 SNPs, I am told that BritainsDNA has found what they term S389 in three P312 individuals from Scotland. Does anyone know anything about this and whether it is known by any other designation?

I asked Jim Wilson; his response:


S389 is L624 which is upstream of what used to be called Western I1b,
now an I2a subgroup.

Yes we have seen it in S116* - so that would be the finding rather than
the SNP itself. DF19 and S250 didn't manufacture on our chip but the
samples are:

S225-S227-S229-S68-SRY2627-S28-S145-S182-

They all have fatherline ancestry from Scotland.

We have also seen the marker plenty times where it should be
(phylogenetically) so I think it is working.

However in looking into this in more detail it does appear to either be
a rather unstable marker or perhaps not be genotyping very well as it is
also present in a different branch of I and it appears in an M222 sample
and an S21.

GoldenHind
09-03-2012, 06:21 PM
I mentioned this on another forum, but thought I would add it here as some may not have seen it.

I was recently notified by Greg M. that he has identified a second L238 individual in the GBR samples at the 1000 Genomes Project. Comparing the two, he found they shared eight additional SNPs in addition to L238, all of them new. Since they haven't been found in any other sample there, it is not possible to say at present whether they are above, below or equivalent to L238. Another researcher has found yet another new SNP in the two L238 samples there, for a total of nine, and is looking at yet another. He is now attempting to identify the appropriate primers.

I have argued for some time that it is highly likely that there is at least one, and probably several SNPs between P312 and L238, so I am hopeful that one or more of these will end up in that position.

The number of P312* who retain that designation after testing for L21, U152, DF27, DF19 and L238 is extremely small. I believe the total stands at less than ten people. I doubt very much they will all ultimately end up in the same as yet unidentified subclade, so there is probably more than one yet to be found.

10-31-2012, 03:12 AM
I am P312 and L238 and hopefully we'll all have some answers soon.

R1b1a2a1a1b4 L238/S182 Brythonic/Celtic Ancestry
L21+ DF21+ DF13+ Z246- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L720- L642- L641- L226- L193- L159.2- L144-

GoldenHind
11-29-2012, 12:30 AM
I'm afraid you are making a mistake somewhere, as it is not possible to be both L21+ and L238+.

12-01-2012, 02:26 AM
Well, that may be. Please explain why my FTDNA deep clade test says I am R1b1a2a1a1b4 and ISOGG Tree identifies me as R1b1a2a1a1b4 L238/S182. Yet, I am L21+ DF21+ DF13+ Z246- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L720- L642- L641- L226- L193- L159.2- L144- .

GoldenHind
12-01-2012, 09:47 PM
I suspect that is because the FTDNA and ISOGG designations differ. It is one more example of why these long designations should be abandoned. Your FTDNA testing shows you haven't been tested for L238, and L238 and L21, for which you have tested positive, are known to be mutually exclusive- in other words, if you are positive for one, you will be negative for the other.

VinceT
12-01-2012, 10:28 PM
@wlharris (http://www.anthrogenica.com/member.php?292-wlharris1055-yahoo-com), the FTDNA desingation is two years out of date. DF21+ currently places you as R1b1a2a1a1b3a7 on the ISOGG tree (http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html), but R-DF21 will be what FTDNA will soon be using because their system can't keep up with the latest developments.

Since you are DF21+, I hope you have joined the R-DF21 and Subclades Project at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-DF21/default.aspx

12-02-2012, 11:46 AM
I guess you two are fairly certain these designations are mutually exclusive and not an upstream/downstream issue. Thanks, I previously realized that by SNP's alone I would be R1b1a2a1a1b3a7 on the 2012 Official ISOGG Tree; but, I thought my Deep Clade Test and SNP Certificate from October 2012 showing me at R1b1a2a1a1b4 trumped that. The 2012 Official ISOGG Tree on FTDNA includes R1b1a2a1a1b3a7 for DF21 and they do place people there, so I can't understand why FTDNA would've placed me at R1b1a2a1a1b4 based on my the deep clade and SNP testing. I suspect it may just be a matter of things constantly changing or because R1b1a2a1a1b4 L238/S182 is one of those under investigation. Nonetheless, since FTDNA managed testing for my SNP‘s, as well as my deep-clade I would’ve thought they’d be consistent. With everything in flux and the pending conversion to short labels it may just be a moot point. Based on your comments, perhaps I’ll contact FTDNA to inform them identifying me as R1b1a2a1a1b4 L238/S182 on the 2012 ISOGG Tree is incorrect and/or to correct my certificate? Also, the project coordinators David Reynolds and Richard Stevens have called me L238 as well; so I guess I should ask them why.

David
12-02-2012, 06:18 PM
You absolutely are not L238+. R1b1a2a1a1b4 has a totally different meaning between FTDNA and ISOGG and cannot be used interchangeably. If I (or Rich) previously said anything that implied you were L238+, it had to have been based on incomplete information.

This is what the "official FTDNA" haplotree looks like, and your Deep Clade results. L21+ and negative for the nine SNPs underneath it. The "official FTDNA" haplotree was last revised over two years ago. This is the only tree that FTDNA uses; they do not use the ISOGG tree, and they do not use ISOGG longhand names--they only use longhand names based on their tree, as shown here. You have to look at this tree when you want to see what the R1b1a2a1a1b4 they assigned as a result of the Deep Clade test means.

275


Here's the current ISOGG version of the R-L21 tree, last revised Nov 2012. Longhand names are based on tree structure, and since the tree structure has grown so radically, longhand names will be very different.

276


Rather than belaboring the point that FTDNA's tree and Deep Clade are badly out-of-date, I will simply re-iterate what Vince said--they are updating soon and the problem will largely go away. Things have evolved rapidly over the last year in particular, with hundreds of new SNPs added. It is comparatively easy for ISOGG to stay current--all we have to do is update a few web pages. A lot harder for a commercial concern like FTDNA--if they change, they have dozens of web pages to update, databases with hundreds of thousands of entries, price lists and their ordering system, etc.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
david

12-02-2012, 11:18 PM
That helps......................thanks.

GoldenHind
12-05-2012, 08:39 PM
I mentioned this on another forum, but thought I would add it here as some may not have seen it.

I was recently notified by Greg M. that he has identified a second L238 individual in the GBR samples at the 1000 Genomes Project. Comparing the two, he found they shared eight additional SNPs in addition to L238, all of them new. Since they haven't been found in any other sample there, it is not possible to say at present whether they are above, below or equivalent to L238. Another researcher has found yet another new SNP in the two L238 samples there, for a total of nine, and is looking at yet another. He is now attempting to identify the appropriate primers.

I have argued for some time that it is highly likely that there is at least one, and probably several SNPs between P312 and L238, so I am hopeful that one or more of these will end up in that position.

The number of P312* who retain that designation after testing for L21, U152, DF27, DF19 and L238 is extremely small. I believe the total stands at less than ten people. I doubt very much they will all ultimately end up in the same as yet unidentified subclade, so there is probably more than one yet to be found.

Thanks to the efforts of Vince T., two of the above mentioned SNPs found only in the two L238 individuals in the 1000 Genomes Project are now available for testing at FTDNA: Z2245 and Z2247.

The position of these two SNPs relative to L238 remains unknown. They may be between P312 and L238, below L238, or synonymous with L238. Since all indications suggest L238 is a relatively recent SNP, there is a decent chance that one or both of these is above L238.

It would be extremely helpful if some confirmed L238 individuals would test for it. Those who are P312* may also be interested in testing, especially those who have some similarities to the L238 STR profile but tested negative. I gather from Vince T. that it would also be helpful for a DF27 and a DF29 individual to test for them, to confirm that they are on a different branch of the P312 tree.

It is unknown at this point whether any hypothetical SNP between P312 and L238 would necessarily share the close association with Scandinavia that L238 has, but I think the answer to that question could be very illuminating for the history of R1b in Europe. interestin

GoldenHind
12-08-2012, 12:42 AM
This is a correction to the above post, as I am unable to work out how to edit it once again. I meant to write DF19, not DF29. However someone who is DF19+ has now ordered them. I gather that both for control and ISOGG purposes, we still need someone who is U152+ and someone who is DF27+ to test for these new SNPs. Any volunteers willing to spend $58 (at $29 each) to further our knowledge of the P312 tree?

TigerMW
05-06-2013, 07:31 PM
I copied this from a May 3 WFN post. Looks like another SNP under P312* has been found, L624. We don't know if it is private yet or not.


I was recently contacted by Prof Jim Wilson who pointed out that he had discovered an SNP that a number of Armstrongs carried. 70% of his Armstrong testees were L624+/S389+ . I have therefore ordered a test for that SNP as Jim is confident I will be part of that group.
Jim tells me that less than 1% of English & Scottish folk so far fall into this category. A number of testees have Scottish origins. Several other surnames are also positive for that SNP.
It'll be interesting to see what can be deduced from those testing positive for this SNP.

GoldenHind
05-09-2013, 02:43 PM
I copied this from a May 3 WFN post. Looks like another SNP under P312* has been found, L624. We don't know if it is private yet or not.

I doubt we know much about this new SNP until it is offered by FTDNA, unless Dr. Wilson cares to make his findings public.

lgmayka
05-09-2013, 03:38 PM
A SNP called L624 is already offered by FTDNA. Only Dr. Wilson can tell us whether it is the same one.

razyn
05-09-2013, 04:26 PM
I doubt we know much about this new SNP until it is offered by FTDNA, unless Dr. Wilson cares to make his findings public.

Doesn't the formula "70% of his Armstrong testees were L624+/S389+" tell us that S389 is his lab's terminology for what FTDNA calls L624? The "L" series SNPs are named (in honor of Leo Little) by FTDNA, and other labs don't give their discoveries "L" designations -- but they can use their own name for the same SNP (and as far as I'm aware, Dr. Wilson always does so).

GoldenHind
05-24-2013, 06:05 PM
I believe Armstrong has ordered L624 from FTDNA. If he gets a positive result, that should confirm the likliehood that S389 is Dr. Wilson's alternate designation for it.

mairtin
06-28-2013, 10:15 PM
Hi David,
I had my Dna done by Scotlands Dna and am S116+S355+S227+S229, My fathers side comes from Berkshire and Hampshire in England, Is there anyway of know what peoples carried the subtypes S355,S227,S229.
Many thanks
Mairtin

razyn
06-28-2013, 10:48 PM
S355 and S227 are respectively Z196 and Z195 to FTDNA customers... S229 is under investigation by ISOGG, but they haven't said where on the tree it falls. I'd guess it's somewhere down the Z196 side of DF27, anyway. That's not specific enough for us to associate it very strongly with a particular slice of geography. Maybe central to western Europe, somewhere, and since the Bronze Age there.

corner
07-27-2013, 01:00 PM
Yes, Jim Wilson confirmed that S250 and DF27 are one and the same. Currently 12 of the novel SNPs are included in the BritainsDNA.com Illumina chip test. The position information for the novel SNPs is not currently publicly available, but Jim indicated it likely would be at some point, after he has worked out some details with the Bone Setter project.

Regards,
david
I match a DF27*/S250* (DF27+, Z196- etc) STR cluster. A couple of weeks ago I ordered the recently launched Chromo2 test from BritainsDNA.com, seeing as results are compared with those novel Bonesetter SNPs. I guess there might be a slight chance of a finding shared SNP/SNPs with the Bonesetter somewhere back in the earlier history of DF27.

castle3
11-21-2013, 03:44 PM
I believe Armstrong has ordered L624 from FTDNA. If he gets a positive result, that should confirm the likliehood that S389 is Dr. Wilson's alternate designation for it.

Just got confirmation that my S389 result is positive. My results from Chromo 2 are due on Nov 29th
Cheers,
Bob

Rathna
11-21-2013, 04:33 PM
Just got confirmation that my S389 result is positive. Full results due by Nov 29th
Cheers,
Bob

This SNP is tested by Chromo2:

11677/S389/L624

castle3
11-21-2013, 05:08 PM
My Chromo2 results are due by 29th Nov, Rathna.
Bob

GoldenHind
11-22-2013, 08:17 PM
Just got confirmation that my S389 result is positive. My results from Chromo 2 are due on Nov 29th
Cheers,
Bob

Thanks, very interesting. Unfortunately we don't know where S389/L624 fits in the P312 tree yet. As I recollect, this SNP is associated with your surname. Are you aware of any others with different surnames with the same result?

When you get your full results, please let us know your result for DF99/S11987. It is possible that S389/L624 could be a subclade of DF99, or it could be yet another new subclade of P312, or it could be private to your surname. Has Dr. Wilson given you any further information about it?

JLRevilla
07-29-2014, 10:52 PM
Howdy!

I've lurking in the forums trying to understand while waiting for my Chromo2 results... and they arrived today. It seems I'm R1b-DF27 without any of the seven known downstream markers.

I am an adopted Peruvian so I can't help with surnames and papertrail, but maybe this genetic signature can be of some use for you (it's currently not for me):

CTS10149+, CTS11150+, CTS11468+, CTS11575+, CTS11948+, CTS11991+, CTS12057+, CTS12633+, CTS12773+, CTS1738+, CTS2134+, CTS2254+, CTS2480+, CTS2569+, CTS2664+, CTS3229+, CTS3315+, CTS3316+, CTS3358+, CTS3654+, CTS3818+, CTS3844+, CTS4293+, CTS4437+, CTS4740+, CTS4944+, CTS5139(+), CTS5248+, CTS543+, CTS6327+, CTS6376+, CTS6383+, CTS6445+, CTS7301+, CTS7604+, CTS7659+, CTS7922+, CTS7941+, CTS8627+, CTS8728+, CTS9200+, CTS9556+, CTS9760+, F1794+, L1002+, L1013+, L1053+, L1084+, L1098+, L1105+, L1118+, L1123+, L1129+, L1130+, L1137+, L1143+, L1145+, L1150+, L1179+, L1220+, L132+, L1345+, L1350+, L1352+, L265+, L278+, L320+, L352+, L438+, L440+, L468+, L470+, L479+, L498+, L508+, L543+, L58+, L604+, L741+, L752+, L757+, L768+, L773+, L822+, L82+, L875+, L882+, L969+, M213+, M235+, M294+, M299+, M415+, M42+, M523+, M526+, M74+, P128+, P131+, P135+, P139+, P140+, P141+, P142+, P143+, P151+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P163+, P224+, P225+, P226+, P229+, P230+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P236+, P239+, P242+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P282+, P284+, P285+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, PAGE081+, PAGE083+, PF1030+, PF1067+, PF1081+, PF1252+, PF1253+, PF1416+, PF1695+, PF1911+, PF256+, PF2590+, PF2592+, PF2615+, PF2617+, PF2619+, PF2621+, PF2622+, PF2624+, PF2626+, PF2629+, PF2640+, PF2651+, PF2653+, PF2655+, PF2658+, PF2660+, PF2677+, PF2679+, PF2683+, PF2684+, PF2685+, PF2688+, PF2690+, PF2700+, PF2702+, PF2704+, PF2709+, PF2716+, PF2718+, PF2722+, PF2734+, PF2736+, PF2737+, PF2739+, PF2742+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2760+, PF2762+, PF2775+, PF3495+, PF3500+, PF5459+, PF5461+, PF5480+, PF5495+, PF5857+, PF5861+, PF5865+, PF5869+, PF5870+, PF5872+, PF5873+, PF5885+, PF5887+, PF5893+, PF5898+, PF5908+, PF5912+, PF5914+, PF5917+, PF5918+, PF5923+, PF5927+, PF5936+, PF5940+, PF5941+, PF5945+, PF5949+, PF5953+, PF5957+, PF5958+, PF5964+, PF5966+, PF5977+, PF5980+, PF5981+, PF5982+, PF6016+, PF6040+, PF6047+, PF6055+, PF6056+, PF6063+, PF6065+, PF6079+, PF6082+, PF6114+, PF6115+, PF6116+, PF6129+, PF6136+, PF6143+, PF6145+, PF6242+, PF6246+, PF6249+, PF6252+, PF6258+, PF6263+, PF6265+, PF6267+, PF6269+, PF626+, PF6271+, PF6272+, PF6399+, PF6409+, PF6410+, PF6419+, PF6429+, PF6430+, PF6432+, PF6434+, PF6435+, PF643+, PF6443+, PF6451+, PF6463+, PF6467+, PF6469+, PF6471+, PF6475+, PF6481+, PF6484+, PF6487+, PF6495+, PF6497+, PF6506+, PF6507+, PF6524+, PF6528+, PF653+, PF6541+, PF679+, PF733+, PF744+, PF825(+), PF834+, PF869+, PF948+, S11330(+), S1159+, S11638+, S116+, S12547(+), S128+, S138+, S1572+, S163(+), S1984(+), S19862(+), S1+, S2003+, S2017+, S20246+, S20315+, S250+, S26903+, S349+, S351+, S3848+, S3+, S4888+, S4+, S6378+, S8235+, S8709+, S9158+, S959+, SRY10831(+), V102+, V104+, V126+, V168+, V186+, V187+, V221+, V226+, V231+, V241+, V29+, V41+, V52+, V9+, YSC0167+, YSC0186+, YSC0203+, YSC0227+, YSC1297+, Z1244+

Cheers!

mjl1264
02-01-2015, 05:04 AM
Hi,

My father from Yorkshire England just had the chromo2 test and the markers seem remarkably similar to what you have published above. Mine are listed below. Can you give more details on the results you published.

MJL


CTS10149+, CTS11150+, CTS11468+, CTS11575+, CTS11948+, CTS11991+, CTS12057+, CTS12633+, CTS12773+, CTS1738+, CTS2134+, CTS2254+, CTS2480+, CTS2569+, CTS2664+, CTS3229+, CTS3315+, CTS3316+, CTS3358+, CTS3654+, CTS3818+, CTS4293+, CTS4437+, CTS4740+, CTS4944+, CTS5139(+), CTS5248+, CTS543+, CTS6327+, CTS6376+, CTS6383+, CTS6445+, CTS7301+, CTS7604+, CTS7659+, CTS7922+, CTS7941+, CTS8627+, CTS8728+, CTS9200+, CTS9556+, CTS9760+, F1794+, L1002+, L1013+, L1053+, L1084+, L1098+, L1105+, L1118+, L1123+, L1129+, L1130+, L1137+, L1143+, L1145+, L1150+, L1179+, L1220+, L132+, L1345+, L1350+, L1352+, L265+, L278+, L320+, L352+, L438+, L440+, L468+, L470+, L479+, L498+, L508+, L543+, L58+, L604+, L741+, L752+, L757+, L768+, L773+, L822+, L82+, L875+, L882+, L969+, M213+, M235+, M294+, M299+, M415+, M42+, M523+, M526+, M74+, P128+, P131+, P135+, P139+, P140+, P141+, P142+, P143+, P151+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P163+, P224+, P225+, P226+, P229+, P230+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P236+, P239+, P242+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P282+, P284+, P285+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, PAGE081+, PAGE083+, PF1030+, PF1067+, PF1081+, PF1252+, PF1253+, PF1416+, PF1695+, PF1911+, PF256+, PF2590+, PF2592+, PF2615+, PF2617+, PF2619+, PF2621+, PF2622+, PF2624+, PF2626+, PF2629+, PF2640+, PF2651+, PF2653+, PF2655+, PF2658+, PF2660+, PF2677+, PF2679+, PF2683+, PF2684+, PF2685+, PF2688+, PF2690+, PF2700+, PF2702+, PF2704+, PF2709+, PF2716+, PF2718+, PF2722+, PF2734+, PF2736+, PF2737+, PF2739+, PF2742+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2760+, PF2762+, PF2775+, PF3495+, PF3500+, PF5459+, PF5461+, PF5480+, PF5495+, PF5857+, PF5861+, PF5865+, PF5869+, PF5870+, PF5872+, PF5873+, PF5885+, PF5887+, PF5893+, PF5898+, PF5908+, PF5912+, PF5914+, PF5917+, PF5918+, PF5923+, PF5927+, PF5936+, PF5940+, PF5941+, PF5945+, PF5949+, PF5953+, PF5957+, PF5958+, PF5964+, PF5966+, PF5977+, PF5980+, PF5981+, PF5982+, PF6016+, PF6040+, PF6047+, PF6055+, PF6056+, PF6063+, PF6065+, PF6079+, PF6082+, PF6114+, PF6115+, PF6116+, PF6129+, PF6136+, PF6143+, PF6145+, PF6242+, PF6246+, PF6249+, PF6252+, PF6258+, PF6263+, PF6265+, PF6267+, PF6269+, PF626+, PF6271+, PF6272+, PF6399+, PF6409+, PF6410+, PF6419+, PF6429+, PF6430+, PF6432+, PF6434+, PF6435+, PF643+, PF6443+, PF6451+, PF6463+, PF6467+, PF6469+, PF6471+, PF6475+, PF6481+, PF6484+, PF6487+, PF6495+, PF6497+, PF6506+, PF6507+, PF6524+, PF6528+, PF653+, PF6541+, PF733+, PF744+, PF825(+), PF834+, PF869+, PF948+, S11330(+), S1159+, S11638+, S116+, S12547(+), S128+, S138+, S1572+, S163(+), S1984(+), S19862(+), S1+, S2003+, S2017+, S20246+, S20315+, S250+, S26903+, S349+, S351+, S3848+, S3+, S4888+, S4+, S6378+, S8235+, S8709+, S9158+, SRY10831(+), V102+, V104+, V126+, V168+, V186+, V187+, V221+, V226+, V231+, V241+, V29+, V52+, V9+, YSC0167+, YSC0186+, YSC0203+, YSC0227+, YSC1297+, Z1244+

corner
02-01-2015, 12:48 PM
Hi,

My father from Yorkshire England just had the chromo2 test and the markers seem remarkably similar to what you have published above. Mine are listed below. Can you give more details on the results you published.

MJL

Hi MJL,

I'm from Yorkshire too and took the Chromo2 test a while ago with the same result, S250+ and negative for 7 SNPs downstream. S250 is another name for DF27 and a large section of this subclade was unrecognized on chip-based tests that were available then (Geno 2.0 and Chromo2). Results from more expensive and advanced NGS (Next Generation Sequencing) tests in 2014 began to shed some light on it. In our case, two members of the STR cluster got FGC (Full Genomes Corporation) results last year. These highlighted all the SNPs that were previously missed in the available commercial chip-based tests up to that point. Their results also matched an anonymous 1000 Genomes test from Orkney. FGC tests showed the deep subclade to be Z2571+ with a few dozen phylogenetically equivalent SNPs downstream of that, including FGC11397. My earlier Chromo2 test indicated, like your father's, that I was negative for all DF27 subclades on their chip (S250*) but I later tested positive for a SNP discovered in the FGC test that was made available at YSEQ.net (FGC11397). Other subclade matches have taken FTDNA's BigY, and found it catches around half of the subclade's SNPs that were found in the FGC test, including Z2571 and an equivalent to FGC11397, FGC11395.

Has your dad tested any STRs? If you matched someone who has SNP tested it would give clues what to go for next.

GoldenHind
02-25-2015, 07:53 PM
Some may have missed the follow up to the discussion about L624/S389 which appears above, as it appears on another thread. An argument about whether it is a Pictish marker seems to have distracted from its likely importance.

L624 has been found in three samples at FTDNA who are otherwise classified P312**. All three have Scottish surnames. It is reported that the same SNP, under the alternate name of S389, has been found in over 30 samples in the Chromo 2 test, and apparently they are primarily of eastern Scottish origin.

The possibility that L624/S389 is downstream from yet another SNP which appears present in an even larger group currently classified as P312** is under investigation at the moment. The larger group does not appear to be limited to Scotland.

GoldenHind
04-02-2015, 07:29 PM
Some may have missed the follow up to the discussion about L624/S389 which appears above, as it appears on another thread. An argument about whether it is a Pictish marker seems to have distracted from its likely importance.

L624 has been found in three samples at FTDNA who are otherwise classified P312**. All three have Scottish surnames. It is reported that the same SNP, under the alternate name of S389, has been found in over 30 samples in the Chromo 2 test, and apparently they are primarily of eastern Scottish origin.

The possibility that L624/S389 is downstream from yet another SNP which appears present in an even larger group currently classified as P312** is under investigation at the moment. The larger group does not appear to be limited to Scotland.

There have been two more people who were previously classified as P312** who have tested L624+ this week. One of them follows the pattern with a Scottish surname, and the other's ancestral surname is unknown due to an adoption in their line.