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Calamaro
06-03-2013, 05:51 PM
Now and again my wife has been mistaken as being part Native American and, when our daughter was first born, several people commented on how she looked Eskimo. I realize people are just trying to be cute, but it's an awfully specific observation to make and after hearing it enough times, we thought it might be fun to look into. After all, her family doesn't know their ancestry.

So we got a DNA test done with 23andMe and compared the results with DNA Tribes and Dr. McDonald. For the most part, everything was as expected. On 23andMe my wife scored 55% Northern European & 12% Eastern European. The breakdown was French & German, British & Irish and Scandinavian.

DNA Tribes provided more or less the same results with the addition of 2.5% Aleut. That kind of surprised us but then when Dr. McDonald came back with 2% Eskimo in his results, we thought there might be something to it. Trouble is, he made it clear that the Eskimo reading was wrong and we should ignore it. So, in the end, we weren't sure what to make of it.

With all that said, does anyone have experience sorting out possible Siberian Arctic Ancestry? Does it usually register as Native American or East Asian on 23andMe? Are there any specific tests I should run on GedMatch? Likewise are there more common European heritages I should be looking for? After all, wouldn't it be far more likely that she had something like Russian ancestry?

And I apologize in advance if we're going overboard for even trying to track down a heritage as small as 2%. We just thought it was kind of interesting considering the circumstances.

AJL
06-03-2013, 06:22 PM
With all that said, does anyone have experience sorting out possible Siberian Arctic Ancestry? Does it usually register as Native American or East Asian on 23andMe? Are there any specific tests I should run on GedMatch? Likewise are there more common European heritages I should be looking for? After all, wouldn't it be far more likely that she had something like Russian ancestry?

Something fairly simple like Dodecad Globe10 might work best for this. I suspect it might pertain to your wife's Scandinavian (especially if Saami) or Eastern European part. If she does have Russian, Finnish, or similar ancestry, then the levels you are seeing appear fairly expected to me. But it would be great if you could post Dodecad or other Gedmatch ancestry analysis results.

Calamaro
06-03-2013, 06:46 PM
I don't think I can run Globe10 calculator on Gedmatch, just world 9, K7B and K12B. Would any of those help? If not I may need to download DIYDodecad and try it out.

BTW, for what it's worth, her maternal haplogroup is U5b1b1. She shares this haplogroup with at least one other relative on 23andMe's relative finder. Likewise she's got a 3rd to distant cousin (0.13% shared) that's V7 from Alaska. I understand that both groups can be indicative of Saami heritage.

AJL
06-03-2013, 07:35 PM
I would run whatever analyses you can with a minimum of effort, and feel free to post the results.

Calamaro
06-03-2013, 07:48 PM
Here's a Dodecad, HarrapWorld and MDLP for good measure.

Dodecad World9 Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Baltic 72.7
2 Caucasus_Gedrosia 12.64
3 Southern 10.84
4 Amerindian 2.05
5 South_Asian 1.23
6 Siberian 0.26
7 Australasian 0.25
8 African 0.04

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Dutch (Dodecad) 2.7
2 German (Dodecad) 2.73
3 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 3.19
4 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 3.24
5 Cornwall (1000 Genomes) 3.98
6 Kent (1000 Genomes) 3.99
7 British (Dodecad) 4.02
8 Argyll (1000 Genomes) 4.41
9 British_Isles (Dodecad) 4.71
10 Irish (Dodecad) 4.86
11 Orcadian (HGDP) 5.06
12 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 5.12
13 Orkney (1000 Genomes) 5.58
14 Hungarians (Behar) 5.76
15 Polish (Dodecad) 6.13
16 Belorussian (Behar) 7.85
17 French (HGDP) 8.32
18 Norwegian (Dodecad) 8.96
19 Russian_B (Behar) 8.96
20 Swedish (Dodecad) 9.11

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 98% Dutch (Dodecad) + 2% Colombians @ 0.95
2 98% Dutch (Dodecad) + 2% Karitiana @ 0.95
3 98% Dutch (Dodecad) + 2% Surui @ 0.95
4 98% Dutch (Dodecad) + 2% Pima @ 0.95
5 97.8% Dutch (Dodecad) + 2.2% Maya @ 0.98
6 97.6% Dutch (Dodecad) + 2.4% PEL30 @ 1.03
7 97.3% Dutch (Dodecad) + 2.7% Athabask @ 1.07
8 96.6% Dutch (Dodecad) + 3.4% Ecuadorian @ 1.19
9 96.2% Dutch (Dodecad) + 3.8% MEX30 @ 1.25
10 97.9% German (Dodecad) + 2.1% Maya @ 1.28
11 97.7% German (Dodecad) + 2.3% PEL30 @ 1.29
12 98.1% German (Dodecad) + 1.9% Colombians @ 1.29
13 98.1% German (Dodecad) + 1.9% Pima @ 1.29
14 98.1% German (Dodecad) + 1.9% Karitiana @ 1.29
15 98.1% German (Dodecad) + 1.9% Surui @ 1.29
16 96.7% German (Dodecad) + 3.3% Ecuadorian @ 1.3
17 96.2% German (Dodecad) + 3.8% MEX30 @ 1.3
18 97.4% German (Dodecad) + 2.6% Athabask @ 1.31
19 95.7% German (Dodecad) + 4.3% Colombian @ 1.47
20 95.7% Dutch (Dodecad) + 4.3% Colombian @ 1.5


HarappaWorld Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 52.53
2 Mediterranean 27.49
3 Baloch 9.58
4 Caucasian 6.31
5 SW-Asian 1.6
6 American 1.22
7 S-Indian 0.77
8 Beringian 0.21
9 Papuan 0.18
10 NE-Asian 0.09
11 San 0.01

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 n-european (xing) 5.12
2 utahn-white (1000genomes) 5.12
3 utahn-white (hapmap) 5.12
4 british (1000genomes) 8.68
5 orcadian (hgdp) 8.68
6 belorussian (behar) 10.52
7 ukranian (yunusbayev) 10.52
8 lithuanian (behar) 13.73
9 slovenian (xing) 14.41
10 hungarian (behar) 14.41
11 french (hgdp) 16.79
12 mordovian (yunusbayev) 20.57
13 russian (hgdp) 20.57
14 romany (harappa) 24.92
15 spaniard (behar) 25.06
16 chuvash (behar) 25.71
17 romanian-a (behar) 26.25
18 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 26.25
19 russian (behar) 26.89
20 italian (hgdp) 27.49

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.2% orcadian (hgdp) + 36.8% hungarian (behar) @ 2.82
2 63.2% british (1000genomes) + 36.8% hungarian (behar) @ 2.82
3 63.2% british (1000genomes) + 36.8% slovenian (xing) @ 2.82
4 63.2% orcadian (hgdp) + 36.8% slovenian (xing) @ 2.82
5 78.6% belorussian (behar) + 21.4% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 2.91
6 78.6% belorussian (behar) + 21.4% basque (hgdp) @ 2.91
7 78.6% ukranian (yunusbayev) + 21.4% basque (hgdp) @ 2.91
8 78.6% ukranian (yunusbayev) + 21.4% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 2.91
9 87.6% n-european (xing) + 12.4% finnish (1000genomes) @ 3.01
10 87.6% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 12.4% finnish (1000genomes) @ 3.01
11 76.3% orcadian (hgdp) + 23.7% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 3.13
12 76.3% british (1000genomes) + 23.7% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 3.13
13 76.3% british (1000genomes) + 23.7% romanian-a (behar) @ 3.13
14 76.3% orcadian (hgdp) + 23.7% romanian-a (behar) @ 3.13
15 68.7% lithuanian (behar) + 31.3% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 3.24
16 73.6% lithuanian (behar) + 26.4% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 3.37
17 73.6% lithuanian (behar) + 26.4% basque (hgdp) @ 3.37
18 55.3% lithuanian (behar) + 44.7% french (hgdp) @ 3.6
19 87% british (1000genomes) + 13% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 3.69
20 87% orcadian (hgdp) + 13% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 3.69


MDLP World-22 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North-East-European 52.51
2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 30.52
3 West-Asian 5.61
4 North-European-Mesolithic 4.61
5 Near_East 2.2
6 Indo-Iranian 2.02
7 Indian 1.05
8 Mesoamerican 0.77
9 Samoedic 0.26
10 South-America_Amerind 0.22
11 Paleo-Siberian 0.13
12 Arctic-Amerind 0.1

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 German-North (derived) 2.59
2 CEU_V (derived) 3.44
3 German (derived) 3.62
4 Slovenian (derived) 3.86
5 German_V (derived) 3.89
6 Austrian (derived) 4.1
7 Hungarian (derived) 4.27
8 Swedish (derived) 4.62
9 Czech (derived) 5.95
10 Croatian (derived) 6.45
11 Welsh (derived) 6.92
12 Swedish_V (derived) 6.93
13 Slovakian (derived) 7.56
14 Croatian_V (derived) 7.73
15 Norwegian_V (derived) 7.99
16 Bosnian (derived) 8.07
17 CEU (derived) 8.78
18 British (derived) 9.74
19 Orcadian (derived) 10.21
20 Serbian (derived) 10.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.2% CEU_V (derived) + 18.8% Ukrainian_V (derived) @ 1.25
2 95.2% German-North (derived) + 4.8% Costanoan (derived) @ 1.26
3 59% CEU (derived) + 41% Ukrainian-West (derived) @ 1.26
4 61.4% CEU (derived) + 38.6% Ukrainian_V (derived) @ 1.28
5 81.9% CEU_V (derived) + 18.1% Ukrainian-Center (derived) @ 1.31
6 84.7% CEU_V (derived) + 15.3% Russian_V (derived) @ 1.31
7 85.9% CEU_V (derived) + 14.1% Mordovian (derived) @ 1.32
8 79.7% CEU_V (derived) + 20.3% Ukrainian-West (derived) @ 1.32
9 95.2% German-North (derived) + 4.8% Ashkenazim (derived) @ 1.34
10 62.7% Hungarian (derived) + 37.3% Swedish_V (derived) @ 1.36
11 68.5% Slovenian (derived) + 31.5% Norwegian_V (derived) @ 1.36
12 95.3% German-North (derived) + 4.7% Roma (derived) @ 1.38
13 96.1% German-North (derived) + 3.9% Jew_Libya (derived) @ 1.41
14 86.8% CEU_V (derived) + 13.2% Moldavian (derived) @ 1.41
15 52.2% Hungarian (derived) + 47.8% Swedish (derived) @ 1.41
16 96.6% German-North (derived) + 3.4% Palestinian (derived) @ 1.41
17 96% German-North (derived) + 4% Jew_Tunisia (derived) @ 1.41
18 95.7% German-North (derived) + 4.3% Jew_Morocco (derived) @ 1.41
19 62.5% CEU (derived) + 37.5% Ukrainian-Center (derived) @ 1.42
20 96.7% German-North (derived) + 3.3% Samaritian (derived) @ 1.42

Calamaro
06-03-2013, 07:52 PM
Also, if they help:

23andMe Results
-------------------------------------------
6.1% French and German
4.0% British and Irish
1.2% Scandinavian
12.8% Eastern European
2.7% Ashkenazi
44.1% Nonspecific Northern European
0.1% Nonspecific Southern European
29.1% Nonspecific European

DNA Tribes Results
-------------------------------------------
Admixture Analysis: All Populations (including Diasporic)
European-American Utah 22.8%
Finland 15.1%
Cornwall West Britain 13.7%
France 12.6%
Russia General 8.1%
Vologda Northern Russia 7.0%
Lithuania 4.0%
Romania 2.8%
Tunisia 2.6%
Aleut Alaska 2.5%
Druze Israel-Carmel 2.5%
Ireland 1.9%
Spain Sample 2 1.8%
Ukraine Western 1.0%
Basque Spain 1.0%
Jewish Yemen 0.4%
Orkney Islands Scotland 0.4%

Dr. McDonald results:
-------------------------------------------
Most likely fit is 98.1% (+- 0.1%) Europe (various subcontinents)
and 1.9% (+- 0.1%) America (various subcontinents)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
Germany= 0.982 Surui= 0.018 or
Germany= 0.982 Karitiana= 0.018 or
Germany= 0.980 Columbian= 0.020 or
Germany= 0.980 Pima= 0.020 or
Germany= 0.980 Maya= 0.020 or
Germany= 0.979 Na-Dene= 0.021 or
Germany= 0.981 Eskimo= 0.019 or
English= 0.982 Karitiana= 0.018 or
English= 0.981 Columbian= 0.019 or
English= 0.982 Surui= 0.018

the American is simply wrong. It looks to be German.

AJL
06-03-2013, 08:19 PM
Thanks -- I'd say there's no strong evidence for any kind of recent Native American ancestry, but this trace could rather be explained by some combination of the Scandinavian, Eastern European, Ashkenazi inputs. When you have multiple different points of ancestry, sometimes several of them align to chose a false positive result.

Calamaro
06-04-2013, 02:18 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I had a hunch that she might have been getting false positive results due to her somewhat varied ancestry. When I run my own results on Gedmatch they're generally comprised of standard European populations. However, depending on the test, she gets small amounts of Roma, Saami, Ashkenazi, Native American, Eskimo or even Indian. It's quite eclectic.

That said, our next step is to have her mother tested to see if that clarifies anything. As we understand it, her father was German and Jewish so I imagine everything else comes from my wife's maternal side. That certainly makes sense considering the family resemblance on that side.

Thanks again.

AJL
06-04-2013, 02:52 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I had a hunch that she might have been getting false positive results due to her somewhat varied ancestry. When I run my own results on Gedmatch they're generally comprised of standard European populations. However, depending on the test, she gets small amounts of Roma, Saami, Ashkenazi, Native American, Eskimo or even Indian. It's quite eclectic.

You're most welcome. This often happens with uneven contributions from different populations: the algorithms get a little haywire.