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Real_Amharas
03-12-2017, 09:55 PM
I alway hear Tigrinyas saying that they are pure "semites" and they are not native to african they come from arabia. i met one eritrean guy who was Tigrinya and he was saying that he was full-blooded "semite" and i told him that you resemble somali more then thay do to any other native wast Asian and he replay back and say that the reason why somalis look like Tigrinyas is because we mixed with them and i said whatever make you sleep at night lol...

LET'S LOOK AT SOME TIGRINYA PEOPLE AND YOU CAN JUGE IF THESE PEOPLE RESEMBLE WEST ASIANS OR SOMALIS.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/u/TvyamNb-BivtNwcoxtkc5xGBuGkIMh_nj4UJHQKuorvJj1we7H0tSxv1EZ XrEsrxaTTeCSo2AvFoqQ/


http://www.asmera.nl/eritrea2006/eritrea673111.jpg


http://www.yaredtour.com/images/stories/tigray%20woman.jpg


http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1r66kGkIT1qztkl8o1_1280.jpg


I don't know why do they think that they are "semite" when they are infact of an Agaw descendant :\
can someone explain this for me?

Akra20m
03-12-2017, 11:13 PM
Iam not an expert in this topic. However, purely from the pictures. They don't look like Somalis at all. I have known a lot of Somalis and I can distinguish them from other Africans.

Awale
03-13-2017, 12:01 AM
Semitic is a language branch of Afro-Asiatic. Anyone whose mother-tongue is a Semitic language is essentially a "Semite" unless you want "Semite" to mean something ancestral/genetic (i.e. having ancestry from the Bronze Age Levant or something) during which case there is probably like 10-15% or so ancestry from the Proto-Ethiopian Semitic speakers (who would've come from Southwestern Arabia/Yemen) in Habeshas like Tigrinyas:

Habeshas are more or less acculturated Agaws (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2016/01/habeshas-are-more-or-less-acculturated.html)
The Later West Eurasian element in Agaws (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2016/01/the-later-west-eurasian-element-in-agaws.html)
Using Somalis as a proxy: The second attempt (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2016/05/using-somalis-as-proxy-second-attempt.html)


Iam not an expert in this topic. However, purely from the pictures. They don't look like Somalis at all. I have known a lot of Somalis and I can distinguish them from other Africans.

Nah, you're about as incorrect as "Real_Amharas" is here, I'd say... Both groups look very similar and there tends to be a lot of overlap phenotypically speaking (I could strut around the Tigray region in Ethiopia for days and never be seen as a foreigner until I spoke to someone and my own mother is often told she looks more "Tigray" than Somali, lol) but there are differences and one can, on average, see a clear distinction between the two ethnic groups. We're not exactly the same by any means. Just pretty similar with some notable overlap.


I alway hear Tigrinyas saying that they are pure "semites" and they are not native to african they come from arabia. i met one eritrean guy who was Tigrinya and he was saying that he was full-blooded "semite" and i told him that you resemble somali more then thay do to any other native wast Asian and he replay back and say that the reason why somalis look like Tigrinyas is because we mixed with them and i said whatever make you sleep at night lol...

Nothing shocking here... It's common enough in the Horn. Somalis themselves will sometimes claim they're "Arabs" (the whole Arab league membership and Arabian genealogies debacle being responsible) even though this too is nonsensical. It's just the Horn's variant of "OWD" (off-white dilemma)... I'd dub it "OAD" (off-arab dilemma). Bunch of folks who subconsciously or consciously wish they were born Yemeni or something, not much else to it. At least that's how I perceive it with Somalis, there might be other odd motivations when dealing with Habeshas. Some of these folks might really have just googled "Tigrinya" online and saw "Semitic language" and latched onto that.

___

Anyway, this really isn't what Anthrogenica is for, Real_Amharas... If you want to discuss population genetics, history or something along those lines; go for it. But subjective phenotype discussions and pseudo-trolly threads "calling out" an entire ethnic group for behavior you perceive they display on average is a pointless thread subject. :|

Real_Amharas
03-14-2017, 10:03 PM
Iam not an expert in this topic. However, purely from the pictures. They don't look like Somalis at all. I have known a lot of Somalis and I can distinguish them from other Africans.

I agree Somalis are pure Cushitics. Tigrinyas especially Tigray and bahri-Tigrinyas look more nilotic people not Cushitcs... since most "Tigrinyas" (as they call themselves) use to speak Afar language ~1,000 year a go before they adopt semitic one. But even during axumit there was no such thing as "Tigrinya" they were just bunch of Afar and small Agaws who just spoke Tigrinya. There is no such thing as Tigrinya they are just Afars and small agaws who have Tigrinyas culture and language...

Real_Amharas
03-17-2017, 05:34 AM
Anyway, this really isn't what Anthrogenica is for, Real_Amharas... If you want to discuss population genetics, history or something along those lines; go for it. But subjective phenotype discussions and pseudo-trolly threads "calling out" an entire ethnic group for behavior you perceive they display on average is a pointless thread subject. :|

If you read really carefully i did not say that all "Tigrinya" people display the same behavior... I'm just discussing about their phenotype sice they speak a semitic language how came they don't resemble any native west Asian, but you have explained it very well in you comment. My theory is that these people use to speak a lowland Cushitic language like Afar before they adopt a semitic one. That make sense since they look not different from the Afars. Or maybe "Tigrinyas" are just Afar who adopt a semitc language and mixed little with kumama people of Eritrea. But that is just a theory or it could be true. But IMO "Tigrinya" people phenotype tend to lean towards Nilotic people then to Cushitic.

Monk307
03-17-2017, 06:09 PM
You are as much "Cushitic" as everyone else in the Horn. Much of your semitic ancestry was only a Neolithic contribution.

Most Amharas are E1b1b. Almost at the same rate as Oromos.

Real_Amharas
03-17-2017, 07:37 PM
You are as much "Cushitic" as everyone else in the Horn. Much of your semitic ancestry was only a Neolithic contribution.

Most Amharas are E1b1b. Almost at the same rate as Oromos.

Did i say i was "Semite"... first off your Y-dna has noting to do with your genetic make-up Tigrinyas have twice more E1b1b than Amharas. second Oromos are not homogeneous population i doubt Oromos have the same rate of E1b1b as Amharas even if they did so what, let say that 50% of oromo population is E1b1b and the other 50% is A, b and E1b1a while Amharas are 50% E1b1b and the other 50% is j1, F, B, J2 are the two population y-dna the same because half of their population belong to E1b1b you are ignoring the other 50% of their Y-dna because they are completely different. It's interesting that you create your account after i create this thread :-|

Real_Amharas
03-18-2017, 04:40 AM
Sorry i have to correct my self your phenotype sometime have noting to do with your genetic make-up for example in Yemen there are some tribes/ethnic groups who are as dark as south indians yet they are more West Eurasian then most north african who are lighter then them but this is not the case for Tigrinyas (both from eritrea and ethiopia they are the same genetically) because they are both genetically and phenotypically indistinguishable from their Cushitic brothers and Sudanese.

https://https://jaymans.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/global-genetic-distances-map.jpgns.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/global-genetic-distances-map.jpg

as you can see they seem to be identical to Cushitics (Even though they are lowland cushitic themselves) is the south and the sudan in the west...

On the Y-chromeson they are mostly E1b1b just like their Cushitic brothers Oromos and Somalis...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Vy1WbkI0OIc/ULP06lrhFpI/AAAAAAAAAEI/YHwYjwnC9zM/s1600/NRY.PNG

Monk307
03-18-2017, 12:18 PM
Did i say i was "Semite"... first off your Y-dna has noting to do with your genetic make-up Tigrinyas have twice more E1b1b than Amharas. second Oromos are not homogeneous population i doubt Oromos have the same rate of E1b1b as Amharas even if they did so what, let say that 50% of oromo population is E1b1b and the other 50% is A, b and E1b1a while Amharas are 50% E1b1b and the other 50% is j1, F, B, J2 are the two population y-dna the same because half of their population belong to E1b1b you are ignoring the other 50% of their Y-dna because they are completely different. It's interesting that you create your account after i create this thread :-|

Cruciani et. al 2004 found an almost equivalent representation of E-M35 in both the Amhara and Oromo at ~57%.

Cruciani et al. (2004) Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa.

There is also a significant level of Haplogroup J amongst Oromos in the Arsi province. There is a similarity in genetic make up amongst the Amhara and Oromo. The Oromos have a higher level of Omotic infusion which is the only difference.

I signed up recently but it wasnt because of your thread lol. That was incidental.

Real_Amharas
03-18-2017, 05:59 PM
Cruciani et. al 2004 found an almost equivalent representation of E-M35 in both the Amhara and Oromo at ~57%.

Cruciani et al. (2004) Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa.

There is also a significant level of Haplogroup J amongst Oromos in the Arsi province. There is a similarity in genetic make up amongst the Amhara and Oromo. The Oromos have a higher level of Omotic infusion which is the only difference.

I signed up recently but it wasnt because of your thread lol. That was incidental.


I was just giving an example... I already told you there is no such thing as "Oromo", Oromos use to be sidamic, argobba, gurage, wolayta, speaking people before they assimilate. And Amhara E-M215 is unique not what you would find among "Oromos" and Somalis.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0i8ct_i71Cw/TwSEQFKh14I/AAAAAAAAAJc/OrV0V1J9x_Q/s1600/E1b1b_Trombetta_Update.PNG

You also said that Oromos have some amounts of J1 which isn't true at all, Oromos as a whole have 3% of J1 it's only the aris Oromos that have up 20% of J1 and Amharas are about 33%... infact Somalis and Oromos have the same genetic make up since thay have that same haplogroup E-M78 but Amharas are mostly E-M123 which is Neolithic haplogroup... I don't know why you are going off topic here... :\

Real_Amharas
03-21-2017, 01:32 AM
Tigrinyas are just Raya-Oromos, Lowland afars, and small Agaws. There is not such thing as "Tigrinya". as you can see in that map that i will be showing on the Attached Thumbnail Tigray (both eritrea and ethiopia) were mostly Afars from the east. north part of Afar use to be Tigray that is why Tigrinyas look identical to Raya-Oromos and Afars. most part of Tigray was in northern Afar...


Typical Tigrinya

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSOjEagl9sPPRNXraJcYuHXVz3rfH9o7 PXNhCrwA0Ba3S5QO5ydNX9WfBdd

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkx9FEcWr6oCZSZKkip-WiEUBbhPO1xgSbOncCSKfXB3mKgOuu-szzeZ8

http://www.tigraytrust.com/res/sys/picture_22_big.jpg

http://www.tigraytrust.com/res/sys/picture_20_big.jpg

http://www.tigraytrust.com/res/sys/picture_11_big.jpg

drobbah
02-02-2018, 01:36 PM
Obviously Habasha look more like the Cushtic speakers of the Horn but they have certain "features" that look like they might have inherited from their Proto-ethio-semitic ancestors.On the other hand I often get mistaken for being Habesha even by fellow Somalis

Awale
02-03-2018, 10:09 PM
Tigrinyas are just Raya-Oromos, Lowland afars, and small Agaws. There is not such thing as "Tigrinya". as you can see in that map that i will be showing on the Attached Thumbnail Tigray (both eritrea and ethiopia) were mostly Afars from the east. north part of Afar use to be Tigray that is why Tigrinyas look identical to Raya-Oromos and Afars. most part of Tigray was in northern Afar...

Raya-Oromos are probably just Oromized local Northern-Highlanders so if there is a very striking phenotypic similarity; that would explain it. But all this stuff about Tigrinyas not existing and Afars is starting to come off as a little crazy, man. You're coming off as some Amhara who has it out for Tigrinyas and wants to vent, or troll, that out here. Not the forum for this sort of thing as I said ages back. Same goes for all this subjective phenotype stuff. But relax, man... Tigrinyas, and other Habeshas, are pretty closely related to the Erythraeic ("Cushitic") speaking populations in the Horn like Somalis and Oromos:


distance%=0.8991 / distance=0.008991

Tigray-Tigrinya

Dinka 34.5
Natufian 31.6
Saudi 23.0
Mota 10.8

--

distance%=0.5415 / distance=0.005415

Somali

Dinka 53.65
Natufian 33.70
Saudi 10.40
Mota 2.25

--

distance%=0.4594 / distance=0.004594

Oromo

Dinka 40.9
Natufian 30.9
Mota 16.8
Saudi 11.5

It's not like they're Saudis while their Erythraeic speaking neighbors are Dinkas. Seems to me like we're all mostly made up of the same base components with mainly the amounts differing. Even more so than before, in fact... In the past, I thought the Saudi-like stuff (probably owed to the Proto-Ethiosemitic speakers) was not found in Somalis but it seems the recent Tanzanian pastoralist (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2017/10/3000ybp-pastoralist-proves-old-point.html) has helped show that Somalis do apparently have some of that ancestry which, to this day, has me a little surprised.

So yeah, chill. By the looks of it so far, Tigrinyas are mainly descended from some local Agaw-speakers who made a linguistic shift and acquired like 20-25% Southern-Arabian ancestry which clearly didn't avoid their non-linguistically shifted neighbors. But seriously, chill... :lol: You're moving towards some messy territory that might involve the staff and lead to you being banned.

radioavdelning
02-09-2018, 06:05 PM
Speaking of ethio semites: are Ethiopian Jews genetically related to other jews or are they just converts? They don't seem to look any different phenotypically.

John Doe
02-09-2018, 06:24 PM
Speaking of ethio semites: are Ethiopian Jews genetically related to other jews or are they just converts? They don't seem to look any different phenotypically.
They are genetically extremely similar to non Jewish people of North Ethiopia, so I'd say they mainly descend from converts, however I don't think they entirely do, they probably do have some Israelite ancestry.

radioavdelning
02-09-2018, 07:00 PM
They are genetically extremely similar to non Jewish people of North Ethiopia, so I'd say they mainly descend from converts, however I don't think they entirely do, they probably do have some Israelite ancestry.

Thanks, do you happen to know what percentage actually descend from Israelites and is it on the paternal or maternal side?

Awale
02-09-2018, 10:42 PM
They are genetically extremely similar to non Jewish people of North Ethiopia, so I'd say they mainly descend from converts, however I don't think they entirely do, they probably do have some Israelite ancestry.

They probably don't have any (http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-jewishness-of-ethiopian-jews_7.html), to be honest. I'd personally say they're just some Agaw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agaw_people) folk who recently went Ethio-semitic speaking if you take a good look at them.


Thanks, do you happen to know what percentage actually descend from Israelites and is it on the paternal or maternal side?

There is seriously no percentage that's noticeable if they have any (and the chances that they do are slim). It'd probably amount to some barely noticeable Y-DNA clades once we have more high-res data on the Horn in this respect but even then; doubtful. Why? Well, just to jot down a couple of points:

* They never even historically used Hebrew as a liturgical language or a spoken one (unlike Yemenite Jews who did). Their liturgical language was Ge'ez, like any other Northern Highland group and their spoken languages before slowly adopting Amharic and, in some cases, Tigrinya were dialects of Qimant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qimant_language) which they apparently did write down at times using the Ge'ez script.

* Their auDNA and uniparentals just look native to the region. They don't show any Middle-Eastern ancestry that a neighboring Tigrinya speaker or non-Beta Israel Amharic speaker wouldn't show. In fact, it's an odd fact but it is true that some of their Christian neighbors like Tigrinyas are closer to MENA and Western Jews than they are... Perhaps only slightly so but still noticeably closer by every metric (Y-DNA, mtDNA and auDNA).

So yeah, I'd say it's pretty unlikely they're really part Jewish but, eh, life has taught me never to say never until you're absolutely sure and we won't be until we get more high-res Y-DNA and mtDNA but lets just say the current evidence is by far not favorable.

At any rate, I think part of why they seemingly developed a distinct subculture that created religious differences (perhaps, as some suggest, a more old-testament way of practicing the local Orthodox Christianity) is because they supposedly used to be an artisan class (see here (https://books.google.ae/books?id=rx2vfGFGtQgC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=beta+israel,+blacksmiths&source=bl&ots=iJN4ZbQy5d&sig=HMZL2w4pjEnsEkf5YmnptNvx9TE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiykeO5w7zUAhWEEVAKHaKuDcEQ6AEILTAB#v=on epage&q=beta%20israel%2C%20blacksmiths&f=false) and here (http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/The-secret-Jews-of-Ethiopia-they-go-to-Church-on-Sunday-and-to-hidden-synagogues-on-Saturday-412040)). In the Horn you often encounter this odd tradition (https://books.google.ae/books?id=S7ckMbbwiHQC&pg=PR10&lpg=PR10&dq=blacksmith+caste,+gurage&source=bl&ots=Nuu6cK8T_n&sig=v7O4nIwBNQhxoloSCkE_TDbHBV8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjDpdqkv7zUAhUFblAKHdq3BI8Q6AEILjAC#v=on epage&q=low-caste&f=false) of treating people who take up work like leatherworking, blacksmithing, masonry and hunting differently from other members of society like your average farmer or pastoral nomad. They were sadly looked down upon and it was normally considered socially unacceptable for one not of their group to marry them. Somalis have their own such castes like the Yibir (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yibir) (oddly also claim Jewish roots), Tumaal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomal) and Midgaan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhiban). This is also found among Ethiosemitic speakers like the Gurage, Tigrinyas and even Omotic speaking groups like Aris (hence why there are "Cultivator" and "Blacksmith" samples).

Anything more I'd add can be found in that old blog post I linked to in reply to John Doe.

NetNomad
02-10-2018, 01:35 PM
I'm a Somali and I can assure that Tigrinyas and most Habeshas do not look like Somalis to the trained eye. I live in Europe and recently there has been a large wave of Eritrean migrants and from those I see I can almost always tell them apart from Somalis (but I am Somali myself).

Horner
02-10-2018, 06:15 PM
Shameful! Tigrinya & Amharic speakers are by almost every account physically & genetically indistinguishable. This thread which includes selective pictures of innocent poor people (including minors) is distasteful, unproductive, and clearly ill intended. Thumbs down..

Awale
02-10-2018, 07:04 PM
I'm a Somali and I can assure that Tigrinyas and most Habeshas do not look like Somalis to the trained eye. I live in Europe and recently there has been a large wave of Eritrean migrants and from those I see I can almost always tell them apart from Somalis (but I am Somali myself).

Yeah, they definitely have their own general look but there's also definitely considerable similarity and overlap. It's not like we're Moroccans and they're Poles. More like the distinction between Iraqi Arabs and certain Plateau Iranians, I'd say. Oddly, though, I often think Somalis can blend in with groups like Northern Highlanders better than they can with us. I.e. your average Somali can pass more easily among Habeshas but your average Habesha will much more often stick out among Somalis. Just my experience... And it genetically makes sense if you stop to think about it.


Shameful! Tigrinya & Amharic speakers are by almost every account physically & genetically indistinguishable. This thread which includes selective pictures of innocent poor people (including minors) is distasteful, unproductive, and clearly ill intended. Thumbs down..

Agreed. :\

Tz85
02-10-2018, 07:16 PM
Thanks, do you happen to know what percentage actually descend from Israelites and is it on the paternal or maternal side?

Most likely Zero. No connection.

radioavdelning
02-10-2018, 07:20 PM
Oddly, though, I often think Somalis can blend in with groups like Northern Highlanders better than they can with us. I.e. your average Somali can pass more easily among Habeshas but your average Habesha will much more often stick out among Somalis. Just my experience... And it genetically makes sense if you stop to think about it.

Very true, I've been mistaken for Habesha myself a couple times but I've never mistaken them for us. In fact I've never mistaken any other Horner for a Somali, but Sudanese on the other hand always get me...it might be due to the way dress though. There's a lot of non-phenotypical heuristics at play when guessing ethnicities though and I think other Horners are less homogenous when it comes to religion, culture etc.

drobbah
02-11-2018, 09:06 PM
Oddly, though, I often think Somalis can blend in with groups like Northern Highlanders better than they can with us. I.e. your average Somali can pass more easily among Habeshas but your average Habesha will much more often stick out among Somalis. Just my experience... And it genetically makes sense if you stop to think about it.

I don't think the average Somali could blend in with the highlanders but a significant minority of us could go unnoticed for awhile in let say a city like Gondar.Also from my personal experience here in Toronto the Habesha seem to think every "light-skin" horner is a highlander.They get shocked when me or my family members tell them that we are pure Somali because the "image" of the average Somali that pops into their mind is a lanky dark-skin person.

I also think Somalis regardless of tone look unique compared to the rest of the Horn.It should be quite easy for those acquinated witht the Horn to differentiate light Somalis from the Habesha or the Oromized highlanders of Shewa.

Light Somalis
http://wargane.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Faysal.jpg
http://sahanjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ahmed-lefty-500x373.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Young_Somali_man2a.jpg/421px-Young_Somali_man2a.jpg
https://www.garoweonline.com/upload/images/Image/1510862053.a3318/main/large.jpeg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TTvmiMXuN88/maxresdefault.jpg

Xabeshi
http://afroeuro.org/magazine/wp-content/themes/default/thumb.php?src=http://afroeuro.org/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/et.jpg&w=568&zc=1&q=80&bid=1
http://teenzonemagazine.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/The-Weeknd-fea-bb32-3af7-2016-billboard-1548.jpg
http://s2.dmcdn.net/HlGat/1280x720-5mi.jpg

The quintessential Habesha
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Haile_Selassie_in_suit_and_cloak_in_1960s.jpg/220px-Haile_Selassie_in_suit_and_cloak_in_1960s.jpg

NetNomad
02-12-2018, 08:23 AM
I don't think the average Somali could blend in with the highlanders but a significant minority of us could go unnoticed for awhile in let say a city like Gondar.Also from my personal experience here in Toronto the Habesha seem to think every "light-skin" horner is a highlander.They get shocked when me or my family members tell them that we are pure Somali because the "image" of the average Somali that pops into their mind is a lanky dark-skin person.

I also think Somalis regardless of tone look unique compared to the rest of the Horn.It should be quite easy for those acquinated witht the Horn to differentiate light Somalis from the Habesha or the Oromized highlanders of Shewa.

Light Somalis
http://wargane.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Faysal.jpg
http://sahanjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ahmed-lefty-500x373.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Young_Somali_man2a.jpg/421px-Young_Somali_man2a.jpg
https://www.garoweonline.com/upload/images/Image/1510862053.a3318/main/large.jpeg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TTvmiMXuN88/maxresdefault.jpg

Xabeshi
http://afroeuro.org/magazine/wp-content/themes/default/thumb.php?src=http://afroeuro.org/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/et.jpg&w=568&zc=1&q=80&bid=1
http://teenzonemagazine.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/The-Weeknd-fea-bb32-3af7-2016-billboard-1548.jpg
http://s2.dmcdn.net/HlGat/1280x720-5mi.jpg

The quintessential Habesha
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Haile_Selassie_in_suit_and_cloak_in_1960s.jpg/220px-Haile_Selassie_in_suit_and_cloak_in_1960s.jpg



I hypothesize that the lack of Omotic infleunces in (most) Somalis causes the differences in overall look. Omotics are generally more squarefaced, less gracile and this is reflected back in Habesha's looks.

drobbah
02-12-2018, 02:18 PM
I hypothesize that the lack of Omotic infleunces in (most) Somalis causes the differences in overall look. Omotics are generally more squarefaced, less gracile and this is reflected back in Habesha's looks.
This would also explain why Somali hair texture seems different not only from the Habasha but also the Oromos & other Cushtic speaking groups

Deftextra
02-12-2018, 02:24 PM
I don't think the average Somali could blend in with the highlanders but a significant minority of us could go unnoticed for awhile in let say a city like Gondar.Also from my personal experience here in Toronto the Habesha seem to think every "light-skin" horner is a highlander.They get shocked when me or my family members tell them that we are pure Somali because the "image" of the average Somali that pops into their mind is a lanky dark-skin person.

I also think Somalis regardless of tone look unique compared to the rest of the Horn.It should be quite easy for those acquinated witht the Horn to differentiate light Somalis from the Habesha or the Oromized highlanders of Shewa.

Light Somalis
http://wargane.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Faysal.jpg
http://sahanjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ahmed-lefty-500x373.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Young_Somali_man2a.jpg/421px-Young_Somali_man2a.jpg
https://www.garoweonline.com/upload/images/Image/1510862053.a3318/main/large.jpeg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TTvmiMXuN88/maxresdefault.jpg

Xabeshi
http://afroeuro.org/magazine/wp-content/themes/default/thumb.php?src=http://afroeuro.org/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/et.jpg&w=568&zc=1&q=80&bid=1
http://teenzonemagazine.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/The-Weeknd-fea-bb32-3af7-2016-billboard-1548.jpg
http://s2.dmcdn.net/HlGat/1280x720-5mi.jpg

The quintessential Habesha
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Haile_Selassie_in_suit_and_cloak_in_1960s.jpg/220px-Haile_Selassie_in_suit_and_cloak_in_1960s.jpg



Yeah. Although not many from my experience, I sometimes come across Somalis who are much "lighter" than the average, and have a noticeable different look than a stereotypical Somali, Which surprised me allot the first time. I always assumed they had some foreign admixture, until someone corrected me.

My uncle who's father is fully Somali has an extremely pseudo Ethiopian/Eritrean look (more on the lighter spectrum in terms of skin colour) and most Somalis and even Ethiopian/Eritrea think he is such. But more knowledgeable people can usually guess that he is not because he is much taller than an average Ethio/Eritrean and has a kind of typical Somali look that a trained eye can easily notice.

dnoone
02-12-2018, 02:30 PM
Could say the same thing about some other larping semites lol.

NetNomad
02-12-2018, 03:30 PM
This would also explain why Somali hair texture seems different not only from the Habasha but also the Oromos & other Cushtic speaking groups

It could also be some random local evolution. Like the hair difference between Papuans vs Oz Abos. Not all traits are caused by admixture I think.

Squad
02-20-2018, 05:10 AM
It could also be some random local evolution. Like the hair difference between Papuans vs Oz Abos. Not all traits are caused by admixture I think.

It could be for many reasons, not just one. Sexual selection could also have played a part, but I do think that an accretion of omotic and ''nilotic''(as in the local population in which Y-DNA ''A3b2'' and mtDNA L0a/b were developed) ancestry accounts for much of it. Also keep in mind that Somalis are very homogeneous as a group so they appear to be largely derived from a not so ancient founder effect.

But yeah, drawing an analogy with Oceanians help us better grasp it. Indeed, australian hair is different from papuan one, and it would be due for the same reasons as Horners : selection (sexual or not), distinct admixture types and founder effect (possibly along with mutation(s)). The only thing you are missing is that Australians and Papuans are not the same in the sense that they were distinct migrations that shaped the genetic variability of Oceania, not only a single one. So I'd say it is safe to say that ''Admixture'' is also somewhat involved, for both Oceanians and Horners.

FIREYWOTAN
02-24-2018, 10:52 AM
The ability to believe the stories the past orders of time. The truth is it's hard to understand what makes our minds except for one thing that others feel is wrong. Taking a belief system to a new level of unconscious memories. Jung's "The Intoxication of Mythology" provides yet another avenue of reason and maybe even purpose.

Jigna
03-25-2018, 10:51 PM
You guys seem very knowledgeable,,, I saw a video of a Somali guy that looks like a Yemeni(the irony) that claims the Tigrinyas and Amharas are not indigenous to Africa because we are from the haplogroup J1. That got me sturred up.

Can somebody who study this elaborate on this please.

Awale
03-26-2018, 01:44 AM
I don't think the average Somali could blend in with the highlanders but a significant minority of us could go unnoticed for awhile in let say a city like Gondar.Also from my personal experience here in Toronto the Habesha seem to think every "light-skin" horner is a highlander.They get shocked when me or my family members tell them that we are pure Somali because the "image" of the average Somali that pops into their mind is a lanky dark-skin person.

Only saw this comment now. Sorry, bro. Yes, I've oddly encountered this too. Some Habeshas I've met do have this weird idea that all Somalis are not just "dark" but excessively dark (like the very top-rowers here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ARnUeK-Y8WbmRRa0tDSHJENFU/view?usp=sharing)) so when they see some people like some of my cousins who are a pale sort of caramel; they get confused for some reason when that's actually perfectly normal. Albeit, I stand by Somalis being able to blend simply because even some of our most unique looks do occur among them from time to time in my experience.


You guys seem very knowledgeable,,, I saw a video of a Somali guy that looks like a Yemeni(the irony) that claims the Tigrinyas and Amharas are not indigenous to Africa because we are from the haplogroup J1. That got me sturred up.

Can somebody who study this elaborate on this please.

Heh, Africa is a continent, not some genetic cluster you must be a part of in order to be from the continent. If your ancestors have lived on it for centuries upon centuries then it's safe to say you're "indigenous" to it. As for the J1 thing... It's not even true because most Habeshas (arguably about 75-80%) are not even J1 carriers:


Y-DNA among some Afro-Asiatic speaking Horn-African ethnic groups (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTCPNK7QLIv27N2IwoKvJkRDtSXZjtyEATV_8XG5G2Up1EB4n 1FLl-0owPaZT149gN_n-twOXAvmfIZ/pubchart?oid=1059464289&format=interactive)

In my humble opinion, J1 here is probably largely owed to the Proto-Ethiosemitic speaking community but that of course doesn't somehow make groups like Amharas and Tigrinyas "non-native" as this admixture is even found in the neighboring Erythraeic (Cushitic) speaking ethnic groups (albeit at lower levels). They're old and slightly outdated posts in some ways but reading the stuff on my blog should help get you up to speed on some stuff: http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2015/07/horn-africans-mixture-between-east.html

drobbah
03-26-2018, 11:45 PM
Only saw this comment now. Sorry, bro. Yes, I've oddly encountered this too. Some Habeshas I've met do have this weird idea that all Somalis are not just "dark" but excessively dark (like the very top-rowers here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ARnUeK-Y8WbmRRa0tDSHJENFU/view?usp=sharing)) so when they see some people like some of my cousins who are a pale sort of caramel; they get confused for some reason when that's actually perfectly normal. Albeit, I stand by Somalis being able to blend simply because even some of our most unique looks do occur among them from time to time in my experience.
That is true lol.I have an Amhara friend that I met in highschool and he could blend in real well with Somalis as he is just as tall as us with a medium mariin complexion and he told me that he gets approached by Somali habaryars (auntie types) all the time lmfao and he always laughs when I ever tell the awkward stories I had with Habeshas assuming I was one of them.

Jigna
03-28-2018, 06:47 PM
I wonder can you explain to me where the studies like the docs you put in your post came from. I am in discussion with some other people also very knowledgeable and they telling me these studies are misleading and inaccurate..

Replying them with (i found this information on a forum) would end the discussion quickly.

BTW the blog is very good.

Awale
03-28-2018, 08:51 PM
I wonder can you explain to me where the studies like the docs you put in your post came from. I am in discussion with some other people also very knowledgeable and they telling me these studies are misleading and inaccurate..

The study (actually a thesis) (http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1331901/) is right there in the link itself as "Plaster et al". If whomever you're talking to actually knows what they're talking about regarding Horn-African genomics, they ought to have been familiar with it when they read "Plaster et al". Now, while the results could do with being of a higher-resolution, I can assure you that they most likely paint a pretty accurate picture of the wider Y-DNA diversity in the Horn region, especially for Habeshas where we have a sample size of about 60-to-400 for three different Habesha ethnic groups (the Gurage, Amharas and Tigrinyas) alongside the latter two groups' Agaw speaking neighbors all of whom show similar frequencies of Y-DNA J (20-25%) pointing to how this is most likely an accurate overall percentage for the lineage among Habeshas. Other datasets I've seen over the years often correlate with these results as well.


BTW the blog is very good.

Thanks. :)

WADIGAJI
06-27-2018, 01:09 PM
I was chuckling a little at Real Amhara's xenophobic hatred towards Tigrignas….don't let the political climate ---past or current, influence your morality ...Derg is dead , time to move on. Btw , I am a bona fide Tigrigna from Eritrea and am E1b1b1b2 , and 68 % middle eastern. The E is not for Enjera .