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Thread: Portuguese 23andme DNA results?

  1. #61
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    H20

    Asturias Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnobrega View Post
    My point is the closest reference Portuguese have is every region in Spain, North Italy/France, South Dutch, German, Central Italy and English. This is surely due to shared Celtic ancestry which I found to be the most surprising fact about the Portuguese, that they have stronger ties to North West Europe than Southern Europe. I thought Southern Italy or Greece would show up as a close reference population but its not even in the top 25. So no, Atlantic and Baltic on these tests "does not mean anything", it most certainly means something and its relative to the greater Atlantic populations of Europe, which Portugal and Spain are a part of
    You are mistaking Celts with the common WHG+EEF+Steppe (bell beaker) ancestry that all of western Europe has since before Celts were a thing, which is why Basques also score high Atlantic in K13 and K15 (the highest in K15, actually, despite having little to no actual Celtic ancestry)
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>BY36857. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

    Ruderico

    Celtiberian,77.6
    Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
    Guanche,8.8

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     Shadogowah (05-02-2019)

  3. #62
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    portuguese

    Portugal 1485
    hey!
    Has anyone seen the new updates on regions? I'm from algarve (south portugal) like all my grandfathers, but the first region that appears is azores

    K1FG3zz.jpg

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     Don Felipe (05-01-2019),  Ruderico (05-02-2019)

  5. #63
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    Asturias Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaucano View Post
    hey!
    Has anyone seen the new updates on regions? I'm from algarve (south portugal) like all my grandfathers, but the first region that appears is azores

    K1FG3zz.jpg
    Boas!

    Yes, it happens to everyone because of Portuguese Americans who skew the results. ~75% of my ancestry is from Viseu district yet it doesn't even show in the list, with some of it being from the borders with Guarda and Braganša, neither show aswell. The rest is form Porto district and it's listed as 7th.

    Have you uploaded your results to GEDmatch? I'm curious to see how someone from the far south scores, particularly in K13 and K15, don't think I've ever seen one of you yet
    Last edited by Ruderico; 05-02-2019 at 08:31 AM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>BY36857. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

    Ruderico

    Celtiberian,77.6
    Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
    Guanche,8.8

  6. #64
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    Celtic Iberian Jew?
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    H3-T152C!

    Spain Andalucia Spanish Empire (1506-1701)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Boas!

    Yes, it happens to everyone because of Portuguese Americans who skew the results. ~75% of my ancestry is from Viseu district yet it doesn't even show in the list, with some of it being from the borders with Guarda and Braganša, neither show aswell. The rest is form Porto district and it's listed as 7th.

    Have you uploaded your results to GEDmatch? I'm curious to see how someone from the far south scores, particularly in K13 and K15, don't think I've ever seen one of you yet
    It is not exclusive of autosomal tests. It also occurs with the Y tests. More than half of my closest matches seem to be Americans with Portuguese roots in the Azores. Most likely because of a common ancestor in Asturias around the VI or VII century.

    There is indeed an over-representation.

    BTW, I am not so sure how useful it is to include territories colonized 500 years ago as a reference for ancestral populations. It is like adding regions of Argentina or states in USA. No idea what can be assumed as "specific" genetic characteristics of Azoreans. As far as I have read, the settlers came from different places of Portugal, Spain and there were also Flemish and a few more additions to the mix.
    Last edited by Shadogowah; 05-02-2019 at 11:31 AM.
    Do you have a question or topic about genetics in Spain and/or prefer to use Spanish language? Visit the new subforum!

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  8. #65
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    H1ao1

    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    The problem is to find the original or stable ancestral population because everything is changing. Heraclitus - “The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change -”. We can only test real individuals in certain territories and times. Al-Andalus was conquered and the population changed, what about the impact of the Roman conquest, the "Barbarian" - Suebi, Vandal, Alan in NW Iberia and the Visigoths in the other part ? We can find different types of Iberian mixtures, some regional and historical but they have specific circumstances just like the Y-DNA and mtDNA distribution. I think we have a modern Portuguese mixture only in the last 1000 years of war, conquests and expansions and that's still changing everywhere.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

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     Piquerobi (05-02-2019)

  10. #66
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    Asturias Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    I think you place too much focus on uniparental markers. They are good to check ancient movements, but for a modelling point of view it's not as useful as autossomal, because uniparental proportions can change for a myriad of reasons. Some markers are so old and sparce that cannot be assigned to any group in particular (eg. mine)
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>BY36857. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

    Ruderico

    Celtiberian,77.6
    Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
    Guanche,8.8

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     RCO (05-02-2019)

  12. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    Heraclitus - “The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change -”.
    Precisely, when speaking of an ethnic group one should refer not only to its location but also the time period. Ethnic groups are constantly changing. Even if a particular group were cut off from interacting with other ethnicities, it'd turn into something else eventually, given how mutations take place, and at a rather fast pace. We live in a dynamic world. As Karl Marx put it, "All That Is Solid Melts into Air".

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     RCO (05-02-2019)

  14. #68
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    H1ao1

    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    Just like in any ethnicity or ethno-historical group we can find the major Y-DNA and mtDNA clusters. Both my Y-DNA and mtDNA are extremely associated with the Portuguese expansion and I have 80% of Portuguese Colonial Ancestry easily detectable and other different European (Eastern German g-g father, Northern Italian, British) and minor Amerindian (I do love that) and African (I am also proud) components also easily recognizable, so "Portugal" is not only an Empire, a language but a genetic reality empirically testable
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

  15. #69
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    R1b1a1a2a1a (P311)
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    Brazil
    The average result among my 4-gp Portuguese matches (n = ~35):

    European 98.76470588

    Spanish/Portuguese 78.17352941

    Italian 3.938235294

    French/German 2.955882353

    British/Irish 1.426470588

    Sardinian 0.3272727273

    Scandinavian 0.09117647059

    Ashkenazi 0.05588235294

    Greek & Balkan 0.01470588235

    Eastern European 0.01176470588

    Broadly South Euro 6.608823529

    Broadly North Euro 3.214705882

    Broadly Euro 1.679411765


    SSA 0.5529411765

    Senegambian & Guinean 0.1352941176

    S East African 0.05588235294

    Nigerian 0.05294117647

    Congolese 0.04411764706

    Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.03823529412

    Sudanese 0.002941176471

    Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 0.008823529412

    Broadly West African 0.07647058824

    Broadly NE African 0.02647058824

    Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.1235294118


    EA and NA 0.09411764706

    NA 0.02647058824

    Broadly Chinese & Southeast Asian 0.01176470588

    Broadly N Asian and NA 0.01176470588

    Broadly EA and NA 0.02941176471


    MENA 0.2294117647
    Last edited by Rafe; 05-06-2019 at 06:15 PM.

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