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Thread: Cluster 1426 and 1123 Share the Same Branch: Y8426

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    Cool Clusters 1426 and 1123 Share the Same Branch: Y8426

    YFull's new tree, Version 5.03, is out:

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/

    It shows that the very large 1426 cluster under A40 shares a common ancestor with me and my crew, the 1123 cluster: Y8426.

    YFull gives Y8426 a tmrca of 4000 ybp, (c. 2000 BC), which lands it in the Bell Beaker period (Bronze Age).

    Anyway, this is news to me.

    The 1426 cluster is mostly Scottish in origin, while 1123 appears to be a Welsh Borders cluster.

    There goes the neighborhood!
    Last edited by rms2; 04-09-2017 at 03:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    YFull's new tree, Version 5.03, is out:

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/

    It shows that the very large 1426 cluster under A40 shares a common ancestor with me and my crew, the 1123 cluster: Y8426.

    YFull gives Y8426 a tmrca of 4000 ybp, (c. 2000 BC), which lands it in the Bell Beaker period (Bronze Age).

    Anyway, this is news to me.

    The 1426 cluster is mostly Scottish in origin, while 1123 appears to be a Welsh Borders cluster.

    There goes the neighborhood!
    Very interesting!

    So, if I'm understanding correctly, it looks like you did form a new subclade. Is that you YF08577 down there along with you cousin? Also, I'm curious, when you say clusters 1426 & 1123 where do those numbers come from?

    Attachment 15118

    Congratulations!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    Very interesting!

    So, if I'm understanding correctly, it looks like you did form a new subclade. Is that you YF08577 down there along with you cousin? Also, I'm curious, when you say clusters 1426 & 1123 where do those numbers come from?

    Attachment 15118

    Congratulations!
    Yes, that's me, YF08577. YF08619 is my 109/111 Stevens match. One step back up above us, at BY160, is a 106/111 match for me, YF08776, but with a different surname (Samuel).

    Those cluster names came from Mike Walsh's collection of STR clusters. The 1426 cluster takes its name from its values of 392=14 and 447=26. The 1123 cluster takes its name from its values of 385a/b=11 and 390=23. Those names were created a long time before we knew to which subclades of L21 they belonged. My cluster was actually first spotted by Rick Arnold, which is embarrassing, because I should have noticed my own cluster before he did.
    Last edited by rms2; 04-09-2017 at 03:47 PM.

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    Very good news!

    So again, if I'm not mistaken, you and your cousin's current TMRCA is 550 years ago. Am I remembering correctly that you have another cousin who's still in the yfull pipeline? Or do I have that wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    Very good news!

    So again, if I'm not mistaken, you and your cousin's current TMRCA is 550 years ago. Am I remembering correctly that you have another cousin who's still in the yfull pipeline? Or do I have that wrong?
    Here's something I wrote elsewhere on that score:

    YFull gives YF08619 and me a tmrca of 550 years as a midpoint in a range of 1050-250 years, but notice that 250 years is the low end of that range. I think 250-300 years is about right (in other words, our common ancestor was born about 1700-1750). 550 years is too long ago, since that would have us sharing a most recent common ancestor at the very outer limit of the adoption of fixed surnames, especially in Wales, where it is likely our line originated. The paper trail evidence indicates that 250-300 years is probably the best estimate. So, I would not say YFull is wrong, just that the lower end of their tmrca estimate is best.

    We do have another Stevens cousin in the Big Y pipeline. He is a 108/111 match for me. His results are predicted for the middle of May, but I'm hoping they'll come in earlier.

    Recent genealogical research indicates a most recent common ancestor for us who was born about 1700-1750, but a bit earlier, maybe in the late 17th century, is possible. The family appears to have come from the vicinity of Ellicott's Mills (now Ellicott City), Maryland, to Fayette County, Pennsylvania, and may have been in Talbot County, Maryland, before that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post

    Those cluster names came from Mike Walsh's collection of STR clusters. The 1426 cluster takes its name from its values of 392=14 and 447=26. The 1123 cluster takes its name from its values of 385a/b=11 and 390=23. Those names were created a long time before we knew to which subclades of L21 they belonged. My cluster was actually first spotted by Rick Arnold, which is embarrassing, because I should have noticed my own cluster before he did.
    Okay, now I get it. That's like my I1 cluster designation which is known as the 14/22 Complex.

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    YFull gives the terminal SNP shared by YF08619 and I, FGC36974, an unrounded age estimate of 365 years. That's getting closer than that midpoint tmrca of 550 years. FGC36974 is probably a few generations older than our mrca, and that's what the paper trail evidence indicates, as well, although we still have not been able to pinpoint who exactly our common ancestor is. We have a group of known suspects, but we have not been able to identify which of them is our ancestor yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Here's something I wrote elsewhere on that score:

    YFull gives YF08619 and me a tmrca of 550 years as a midpoint in a range of 1050-250 years, but notice that 250 years is the low end of that range. I think 250-300 years is about right (in other words, our common ancestor was born about 1700-1750). 550 years is too long ago, since that would have us sharing a most recent common ancestor at the very outer limit of the adoption of fixed surnames, especially in Wales, where it is likely our line originated. The paper trail evidence indicates that 250-300 years is probably the best estimate. So, I would not say YFull is wrong, just that the lower end of their tmrca estimate is best.

    We do have another Stevens cousin in the Big Y pipeline. He is a 108/111 match for me. His results are predicted for the middle of May, but I'm hoping they'll come in earlier.

    Recent genealogical research indicates a most recent common ancestor for us who was born about 1700-1750, but a bit earlier, maybe in the late 17th century, is possible. The family appears to have come from the vicinity of Ellicott's Mills (now Ellicott City), Maryland, to Fayette County, Pennsylvania, and may have been in Talbot County, Maryland, before that.
    From what I understand when your cousin's results come in, it should bring your TMRCA closer to the present and more in line with your research. Hopefully, Igmayka or someone else who knows will comment and confirm or deny my understanding of the process.

    At any rate, good luck!
    Last edited by JMcB; 04-09-2017 at 05:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    From what I understand when your cousin's results come in, it should bring your TMRCA closer to the present and more in line with your research. Hopefully, Igmayka or someone else who knows will comment and confirm or deny my understanding of the process.

    At any rate, good luck!
    Hopefully, it will, but I think YFull already has us right at the low end of their tmrca estimate. It's a range anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    YFull's new tree, Version 5.03, is out:

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/

    It shows that the very large 1426 cluster under A40 shares a common ancestor with me and my crew, the 1123 cluster: Y8426.

    YFull gives Y8426 a tmrca of 4000 ybp, (c. 2000 BC), which lands it in the Bell Beaker period (Bronze Age).

    Anyway, this is news to me.

    The 1426 cluster is mostly Scottish in origin, while 1123 appears to be a Welsh Borders cluster.

    There goes the neighborhood!
    Apparently I am the one guy under BY160 with a clear derived read (just one) for Y8426 and its apparent equivalent FGC5572. The other two guys in my cluster with Big Y results who are on YFull's tree, YF08619 and YF08776, are derived for a bunch of Y8426 SNPs that are one-star-out-of-five, low confidence SNPs (I am derived for those, too), but they have no calls at Y8426/FGC5572.

    Apparently YFull went ahead and put us all under Y8426 because of the cumulative evidence of all those low-confidence SNPs plus my Y8426+ and FGC5572+ result. It seems Y8426 is not in the Big Y's targeted regions, but was somehow picked up in my case. Fortunately, FTDNA offers an individual SNP test for FGC5572. YF08619, my Stevens cousin, has ordered that test to confirm whether this is the real deal or some kind of individual quirk.

    I wonder what it would take to get FGC5572 added to FTDNA's R1b-DF41 SNP Pack.

    Of course, it would be really nice if the price of the Big Y came down to about $250. Then we would really experience a data bonanza.
    Last edited by rms2; 04-11-2017 at 11:20 PM. Reason: Error

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