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Thread: J1a3 or Z1828 in Central Europe

  1. #1
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    J1a3 or Z1828 in Central Europe

    Hi all,

    I'm new to this forum, and tried to read as much recently as possible in the theme, but please do excuse me if I ask stupid questions someday.
    So, according to FTDNA I'm J1-M267, and also according to nevgen.org, quite possibly part of the Z1828 group. I could only trace back my family to 17th century, but the surname is rather rare, occuring exclusively in Bern and Luzern area in the 15th century (today's ethnic German inhabited Switzerland, also northern edge of the High Alps as much as I know).

    I would be grateful, if you could point out any articles or studies about J1 in Central Europe to me. Though I know it is impossible to know for sure, but what would be your take, how could my ancestors get there? Travelling with the settling German tribes, or is antiquity a more realistic time for this migration? Could they be living there ever since Hallstatt culture, or Neolithic times maybe?

    Thanks, B.

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  3. #2
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    J-Z1828 is rather general.

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     Agamemnon (04-15-2017)

  5. #3
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    J1-Z18271
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    J1-Z1828's TMRCA is around 9,000 years old, in order to know more about your paternal lineage you'd need to narrow down to a specific subclade under Z1842 or BY69.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  7. #4
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    Berengar, are you 629350 on FTDNA's J1 Project? If not, could you join that project please? https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    You might belong to this interesting branch: https://drive.google.com/open?id=16J...0M&usp=sharing

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  9. #5
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    J1 ZS3128

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    I already joined the J1 project, my kit is 636364. As BigY seems a bit too costy for me atm, I wanted to see my options first, and am awaiting results for Z1828 SNP pack. Any advice on how to proceed afterwards?
    Last edited by Berengar; 04-16-2017 at 09:55 AM.

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  11. #6
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    Right, your data has already been notice on a Russian forum where one of the leading amateur researchers has declared you to be "Another Teutonic L1189 - sounds good!"

    You probably belong to either the gold cone or gold cross cluster on my map at https://drive.google.com/open?id=16J...0M&usp=sharing

    I need to look up what SNPs are in the Z1828 pack. Then I can advise you further.

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  13. #7
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    I can't find any information on a Z1828 pack.

    Anyway, I know five people have results from some SNP pack, and they benefitted from that. Look at the J1 tree built by an expert using BigY cases, http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree , find the Z1828 box. Then go down the tree through the BY69 box to the L1189 box. Your data looks like an L1189. With SNP pack results, you should find out which of the three boxes under that you belong to.

    Your results won't appear in the tree without taking the BigY, but it will still be informative to you.

    The ZS3178 box is what I call the gold cross cluster on my map. That is German and Norwegian.

    The ZS10764 box on the right is what I call the gold cone cluster on my map. That is a German and a Finn whose line must have been German 900 years ago.

    The ZS3128 box in the middle is what I call the gold flower cluster on my map. That consists of a Ukrainian, a Brit, an Albanian, an ethnic Greek from northwest Turkey, and a bunch of cases without the BigY but with SNP results.

    That should help you interpret your results.

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  15. #8
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    I am also J1a3
    first when I received my results FTDNA put me only J1-M267, and according to nevgen I was J1a3-Z1828
    when I joined J1 project ,the admin predict me as J-CTS1460 ,so I ordered CTS1460 SNP ,but the result came negative .
    So I decided to order J1 - M267 SNP Pack and finally I received my final SNP as J-ZS3089
    It took 3 months and 425$ to know my final SNP
    So I recommend you to take J1 - M267 SNP Pack

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berengar View Post
    Hi all,

    I'm new to this forum, and tried to read as much recently as possible in the theme, but please do excuse me if I ask stupid questions someday.
    So, according to FTDNA I'm J1-M267, and also according to nevgen.org, quite possibly part of the Z1828 group. I could only trace back my family to 17th century, but the surname is rather rare, occuring exclusively in Bern and Luzern area in the 15th century (today's ethnic German inhabited Switzerland, also northern edge of the High Alps as much as I know).

    I would be grateful, if you could point out any articles or studies about J1 in Central Europe to me. Though I know it is impossible to know for sure, but what would be your take, how could my ancestors get there? Travelling with the settling German tribes, or is antiquity a more realistic time for this migration? Could they be living there ever since Hallstatt culture, or Neolithic times maybe?

    Thanks, B.
    My analysis of STRs suggests that J1a3's initial development was most likely in Central Europe, with J1a/J1a3 having arrived there from the Black Sea Region during the Neolithic (long before Hallstatt, and some time after I and R1 moved there).
    I estimate that the majority of surviving J1a3 (including ZS3089) most likely derives from a splinter group that migrated back from East Central Europe to the Caucasus in perhaps the third millennium BC. Other J1a3 appears to have been mostly eliminated in Central Europe (possibly due to the expansion of R1), with your suggested group (L1189) being its only significant surviving subclade.

  18. #10
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    Interesting. I haven't heard that theory before.

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