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Thread: J1 in Italy

  1. #81
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    United States
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    Y-DNA (P)
    J-FT196614
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    H1-am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegasusphm1 View Post
    Just received my Big-Y 700 results. J-FT4955 (Bari, Italy). New sibling SNP for L829
    J-FT196614

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  3. #82
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    Ascoli Piceno, Marche, Italy
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    3/4 Marche, 1/4 Abruzzo

    Italy
    Hello,

    I posted a while ago on this thread. I'm an Italian Geno 2.0 transfer to FTDNA, plus FTDNAY67. The predicted haplogroup after the transfer was J-ZS1727 (not reliable after a geno transfer according to members here) and this snp is shown as "confirmed". After the Y67 the J1 project put me in the L823 Unclustered group but I don't know the criteria for this prediction. (I thought it was necessary the Y111 to predict L823 because of a marker typical of this subclade but perhaps I'm wrong). No history of Jewish ancestry at least from 1700, before that anything may have happened.

    I wanted to purchase a J1 snp pack to find out my terminal snp and e-mailed all the J1 project admninistrators for a piece of advice, but I didn't get a single answer.

    I couldn't get the hang of the different packs for me, so I ended up ordering on a whim the L823 test because they put me in that cluster, and also the Y111.

    I'm getting the results end of June. In case I turned out not to be under L823, and in case the Y111 is not useful at all for an haplogroup prediction, what snp pack could I purchase? Thanks.

  4. #83
    Registered Users
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    1,364
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    Bay Area
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    Y-DNA (P)
    E-BY14160
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c
    mtDNA (P)
    I1a1

    England Italy Sweden Netherlands
    Y-111 is useless for terminal subclades. If you want terminal, you need big y. I did y111 and they gave me E-M35. Even 23 and me did a more recent prediction at e-v13.
    distance%=4.6465"
    Barcin_N,47.2
    Yamnaya_Samara,41.4
    WHG,10.6
    Ethiopia_4500BP,0.8


    E-V13 => E-PH1246 => E-BY14160
    Antonio Reale born circa 1710, Ciminà (RC) Italy

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  6. #84
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    Lebanon Syria Palestine
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    J-FGC8223 can't be linked with the Sumerians, as it is a subclade YSC234. YSC234 clades are best associated with Semitic speakers, and it is certain that J-YSC234 was present in Proto-Semitic speakers. Sumerians probably had some J1, but I highly doubt it was P58+ for the most part. Maybe they had some basal P58 clades.

    Based on distribution, it seems like J-FGC8223 can be linked with the Northwestern Semitic speaking groups. Perhaps even with those who speak a Canaanite language such as the Phoenicians and Jews (Hebrew).
    Probably late to say this, but, I imagine J-CTS1460 is a very possible clade for Sumerians. It's found among Assyrians and Iraqis too.

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  8. #85
    Gold Class Member
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    1,306
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    Canada
    Ethnicity
    Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z482>Y15222
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2b5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z36>Y156527

    Italy Italy Sicily Italy Two Sicilies Vatican Star of David
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe12 View Post
    Probably late to say this, but, I imagine J-CTS1460 is a very possible clade for Sumerians. It's found among Assyrians and Iraqis too.
    J-CTS1460 has been found in Kura Araxes Culture, I would imagine Hurrians and Kassites would be likelier but I can imagine some Z1842* could be Sumerian in origin or CTS1460 was brought into the area (Caucasus) via Uruk or Ubaid expansions.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  10. #86
    Registered Users
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    786
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    Albanian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-ZS241
    mtDNA (M)
    T1a1l
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-CTS1273*

    Albania Kosovo Montenegro
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe12 View Post
    Probably late to say this, but, I imagine J-CTS1460 is a very possible clade for Sumerians. It's found among Assyrians and Iraqis too.
    I see on FTDNA that there is an Assyrian from the UEA and another from Iraq that belong to CTS1460>YSC414. They share this cluster with a Pontic Greek from Gümüşhane in the Black Sea region of Turkey. I don't know how close these two Assyrians are to the Pontic Greek, however I'd assume that they are pretty distant.

    There is an Iraqi sample on Yfull who forms the cluster CTS1460>Y147362 with an Armenian, their TMRCA is ~2,900ybp. I see that there are also multiple other clusters found among the Armenians and the southern Caucasus (Transcaucasia), so it's possible that some of these clusters did expand with Armenian-speakers or with other earlier inhabitants of the region such as the Urartians and Hurrians.

    There is also another sample from Iraq on FTDNA that belongs to CTS1460>BY193780 and shares this group with a sample from England. BY193780 shares Y97265 with BY37582 and its downstreams. BY37582>BY37583 is found in 2 samples from Armenia, whilst BY37582>BY37583>FT293485 is found in 2 samples from Iran.

    I guess that if there are basal CTS1460 clusters among the Semitic-speaking populations of Mesopotamia that are distant to the clusters found among other populations from different areas, they could possibly be Sumerian, but an original expansion from the southern Caucasus or the surrounding area seems most likely.
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 06-05-2020 at 09:52 PM.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  12. #87
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    G2a2b1 M406> FGC5081

    Byzantine Empire Empire of Trebizond Greek Macedonia Greece
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    I see on FTDNA that there is an Assyrian from the UEA and another from Iraq that belong to CTS1460>YSC414. They share this cluster with a Pontic Greek from Gümüşhane in the Black Sea region of Turkey. I don't know how close these two Assyrians are to the Pontic Greek, however I'd assume that they are pretty distant.

    There is an Iraqi sample on Yfull who forms the cluster CTS1460>Y147362 with an Armenian, their TMRCA is ~2,900ybp. I see that there are also multiple other clusters found among the Armenians and the southern Caucasus (Transcaucasia), so it's possible that some of these clusters did expand with Armenian-speakers or with other earlier inhabitants of the region such as the Urartians and Hurrians.

    There is also another sample from Iraq on FTDNA that belongs to CTS1460>BY193780 and shares this group with a sample from England. BY193780 shares Y97265 with BY37582 and its downstreams. BY37582>BY37583 is found in 2 samples from Armenia, whilst BY37582>BY37583>FT293485 is found in 2 samples from Iran.

    I guess that if there are basal CTS1460 clusters among the Semitic-speaking populations of Mesopotamia that are distant to the clusters found among other populations from different areas, they could possibly be Sumerian, but an original expansion from the southern Caucasus or the surrounding area seems most likely.
    The Pontic Greek guy from Gumushane has a Jewish Kohem lineage?
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

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  14. #88
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    Albanian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-ZS241
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    T1a1l
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    E-CTS1273*

    Albania Kosovo Montenegro
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    The Pontic Greek guy from Gumushane has a Jewish Kohem lineage?
    No, this is another Pontic Greek from the town. His lineage is probably local in the area since Z1842 and Z1842>CTS1460 have been found in cultures such as the Kura-Araxes.

    The Pontic Greeks from Gümüşhane that are believed to have distant Jewish paternal ancestry (likely Byzantine or perhaps earlier) are J-Z18271 which ultimately is a downstream of P58 and has multiple clusters that can confidently be linked to Jewish peoples (e.g. Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardi Jews etc).
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  16. #89
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    G2a2b1 M406> FGC5081

    Byzantine Empire Empire of Trebizond Greek Macedonia Greece
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    No, this is another Pontic Greek from the town. His lineage is probably local in the area since Z1842 and Z1842>CTS1460 have been found in cultures such as the Kura-Araxes.

    The Pontic Greeks from Gümüşhane that are believed to have distant Jewish paternal ancestry (likely Byzantine or perhaps earlier) are J-Z18271 which ultimately is a downstream of P58 and has multiple clusters that can confidently be linked to Jewish peoples (e.g. Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardi Jews etc).
    Ok ty.I am not very familiar with J1 lineages.So,Kura-Araxes had J1 folks...hmm interesting.
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

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  18. #90
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    ULAN BATTOR
    Ethnicity
    IBERIAN
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    IBERIAN
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1-ft86622
    mtDNA (M)
    H1AJ1A

    Phoenicia Lebanon Phoenicia Portugal Algeria Armenia
    you are right , taking in account the time but , with who are associated that Semitic speakers of that time ? that is a good question because there is no records of other civilizations migrating to that area of the globe at the time and the Sumerians were the first civilization in size terms , lets also not forget that they certainly were not just a branch of people with a haplogroup j1 , speaking in my case my clad is down from j1- fgc-8216 and in the research that i been done in the country of my origins in some studies it points to Phoenician presence , Phoenicians did had made a big impact in the world but seems everybody trying to deny it , the same with the Sumerians

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