Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 61 to 65 of 65

Thread: J1 in Italy

  1. #61
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    3,944
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & British
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5
    mtDNA (P)
    U7a5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-U152
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1-Z18271

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    J-L823 seems to be a Jewish cluster under Y6094, it also seems to be one of the Cohanim haplotypes. Looks like L823 is split into Sephardic and Ashkenazi clusters, the clusters in east Europe are of Ashkenazi origin whilst the ones in Iberia Sephardic.
    L823 is a subclade of FGC15940, which is a major branch of YSC76. While it is subsumed under the "Cohen Modal Haplotype" (in terms of Y-STR markers), it isn't the branch more narrowly associated with Kohanic ancestry (Z18271, which could be described as the "Cohen Modal SNP"). That being said, L823 looks like a typically Jewish branch at this stage, both in terms of distribution and TMRCA estimates (which fit with the Ashkenazi bottleneck, a pattern common to many other Jewish branches), considering the presence immediately upstream of Palestinian, Lebanese and Syrian samples L823 is extremely likely to have originated in the Levant some ~3500 to ~4000 yBP and in turn it could easily be of Judean origin. Strangely enough, FTDNA's Haplotree (along with Victar's older tree) lists it as a branch of ZS1706:



    I'd say there's still some room for improvement on YFull's J1 tree.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Agamemnon For This Useful Post:

     Kelmendasi (07-01-2019),  patrizio22 (07-01-2019),  Power77 (07-08-2019),  Táltos (07-03-2019)

  3. #62
    Registered Users
    Posts
    317
    Sex
    mtDNA (M)
    U1a1a
    Y-DNA (P)
    EV13>Z5018>FGC33625

    Albania Kosovo
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    As Patrizio stated above, the TMRCA for this cluster is roughly 1,600 years before present, so during the 5th century. L823 is a downstream of YSC76/Y2919 which likely has origin from the Levant or Mesopotamia so it's very likely that this group developed among the central Semitic speaking populations of the Levant. By the way, I am referring to J1-L823 not J2b-L283, sorry for the confusion if there was any.
    Ah right, no i misread it. Sorry for the mistake.

  4. #63
    Administrator
    Posts
    1,794
    Sex
    Nationality
    American
    mtDNA (M)
    H23
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-BZ68

    Italy Two Sicilies Germany Palatinate Lithuania Poland Slovakia
    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    L823 is a subclade of FGC15940, which is a major branch of YSC76. While it is subsumed under the "Cohen Modal Haplotype" (in terms of Y-STR markers), it isn't the branch more narrowly associated with Kohanic ancestry (Z18271, which could be described as the "Cohen Modal SNP"). That being said, L823 looks like a typically Jewish branch at this stage, both in terms of distribution and TMRCA estimates (which fit with the Ashkenazi bottleneck, a pattern common to many other Jewish branches), considering the presence immediately upstream of Palestinian, Lebanese and Syrian samples L823 is extremely likely to have originated in the Levant some ~3500 to ~4000 yBP and in turn it could easily be of Judean origin. Strangely enough, FTDNA's Haplotree (along with Victar's older tree) lists it as a branch of ZS1706:



    I'd say there's still some room for improvement on YFull's J1 tree.
    My cousin as you might remember is J-ZS1711. He is negative for ZS1706. He has taken the SNP Pack test, but they are now showing J-ZS5563 available for him to test. Is that a mistake on FTDNA's part to offer that to him? He is negative for J-ZS5891 and J-ZS1766 too.
    Maternal Grandfather's Y Line: J-ZS1711
    Maternal Grandfather's mtDNA: K2b1
    Paternal Grandmother’s mtDNA: U5a1

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Táltos For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (07-03-2019),  Power77 (07-08-2019)

  6. #64
    Registered Users
    Posts
    134
    Sex
    Location
    Paris, France
    Ethnicity
    3/4 Marche, 1/4 Abruzzo

    Italy
    After joining the FTDNA J1 project where they put me in a "L823 Unclustered" box, I have also joined the FTDNA J-YSC76 project and they put me in this group "Ungrouped (should order YSC0000076 or Big Y or J1 SNP Pack)", even though I had Y SNP results from Geno and a transfer.

    A few deductions:

    - The geno transfer is dodgy, even though I had Y SNP testing from GENO and a transfer they couldn't even put me in the J-YSC76 group. Or perhaps the administrator had had a bad day.
    - Y STR testing seems pretty pointless to me if you are the odd Italian P58+. The only thing I found out is that they couldn't put me in any of the Jewish clusters of J-YSC76.
    - I should probably order the J1 SNP pack.

  7. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to patrizio22 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (07-05-2019),  Kelmendasi (07-09-2019),  Power77 (07-08-2019),  Táltos (07-09-2019)

  8. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Aga great job on this thread, I have additional information for Z18292>ZS2589, as one of the three you mentioned (I am trying to be as private as possible, will not say which of three) is a dear friend of mine, he came from a Crypto-Jewish family and has returned to the Jewish faith, he has another match, which also has Crypto-Jewish ancestry from Palermo (there's a 4th you can add to the list), based on both our research the Z18292>ZS2589 in Italy is Jewish, more specifically Sicilian Jewish.
    Hi Principe,
    Very interesting post...
    If z18292>zs2589 is sicilian jewish would that mean that zs2566 which comes after makes it jewish as well? I m new on all this stuff and are trying to understand because my father being positive for zs2582 it is comprised under the zs2566 tree. It is his final terminal according to yseq.net. He got positive for z11889, z18294, z18297 and finally zs2582. Anything After zs2582 is negative (ZS3736,ZS3987,ZS4611, ZS9134). On jewishdna.net some branches from zs2566 might be jewish too.
    https://jewishdna.net/AB-135.html

    I suppose if it's not jewish it should be of levantine origin.

    I should add that there is no known jewish backgrounds on his side.
    Thanks in advance

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567

Similar Threads

  1. R1a in Italy
    By Morges in forum R
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 06-09-2018, 10:39 PM
  2. Buffalo in Italy
    By vettor in forum Fauna
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-05-2016, 08:11 PM
  3. L21 in Italy
    By rms2 in forum R1b-L21
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-12-2015, 04:52 AM
  4. L2 scarcity in Italy
    By Orobicus in forum L2
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 08-11-2014, 09:57 PM
  5. LGM in Italy ~19,500 YBP for J1c
    By Little bit in forum J
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-19-2014, 01:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •