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Thread: The Genomic History of Southeastern Europe - Mathieson, Reich, et al.

  1. #591
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    I checked I5068 Neolithic LBK Austria. The sample is very low quality, but he is derived for three SNPs on the J2a-Z6048 line with the rest being no calls. Furthermore, he is showing negative for S15572. So he should be ~J2a-Z6048(xS15572): https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z6050/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    I checked I5068 Neolithic LBK Austria. The sample is very low quality, but he is derived for three SNPs on the J2a-Z6048 line with the rest being no calls. Furthermore, he is showing negative for S15572. So he should be ~J2a-Z6048(xS15572): https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z6050/
    I also checked I5207 Neolithic LBK Austria. He is positive for 14 SNPs on the J2a-Z6048 line, with the rest no calls. And negative for most SNPs on the downstream subclades. So his classification would be: J2a-Z6048(xFGC61600,S15572). Perhaps part of the same paragroup as I5068 LBK Austria.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z6050/

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  5. #593
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    Balkans_IA seems to be quite close to the Mycenaeans, this is quite odd considering the fact that this sample is from Dzhulyunitsa in Northern Bulgaria:

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
    Mycenaean Vucedol Italian_Tuscan Sicilian_East Italian_South
    4.095173 4.201369 4.474005 4.720314 4.776827
    Sicilian_West Greek Balkans_BA
    5.043716 5.059950 5.239375






    Using the same fit I used for the Mycenaeans:

    [1] "distance%=2.3559"

    Balkans_IA

    Minoan_Lasithi,74.2
    Balkans_BA:I2163,25.8


    ^^A very decent fit, the similarity is quite striking.

    This is what we can read about this sample in the supplement:

    • I5769 / No 8 (Iron Age, grave 9)
    Sub-adult female. This Iron Age burial was found in an oval pit in sq. 3611. The skeleton in
    flexed position and is turned to the east. Orientation of the body is SE-NW, with the head to
    SE. The grave inventory consists of ornamental beads and 21 metal (probably copper)
    ornaments smaller than 5 mm.


    So this individual was, in all likeliness, Thracian. Not some recent immigrant from the south. This will have some serious implications if this sample is representative of what the Thracians were like from a genetic vantage point, even though this is a single sample the overall pattern we see with the earlier Balkans_BA samples being relatively close to North Italians, Iberians and Sardinians means this is worthy of consideration. This might also have something to do with Armenoi.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 02-24-2018 at 02:56 AM.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Balkans_IA seems to be quite close to the Mycenaeans, this is quite odd considering the fact that this sample is from Dzhulyunitsa in Northern Bulgaria:

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
    Mycenaean Vucedol Italian_Tuscan Sicilian_East Italian_South
    4.095173 4.201369 4.474005 4.720314 4.776827
    Sicilian_West Greek Balkans_BA
    5.043716 5.059950 5.239375






    Using the same fit I used for the Mycenaeans:

    [1] "distance%=2.3559"

    Balkans_IA

    Minoan_Lasithi,74.2
    Balkans_BA:I2163,25.8


    ^^A very decent fit, the similarity is quite striking.

    This is what we can read about this sample in the supplement:

    • I5769 / No 8 (Iron Age, grave 9)
    Sub-adult female. This Iron Age burial was found in an oval pit in sq. 3611. The skeleton in
    flexed position and is turned to the east. Orientation of the body is SE-NW, with the head to
    SE. The grave inventory consists of ornamental beads and 21 metal (probably copper)
    ornaments smaller than 5 mm.


    So this individual was, in all likeliness, Thracian. Not some recent immigrant from the south. This will have some serious implications if this sample is representative of what the Thracians were like from a genetic vantage point, even though this is a single sample the overall pattern we see with the earlier Balkans_BA samples being relatively close to North Italians and Iberians and Sardinians means this is worthy of consideration. This might also have something to do with Armenoi.
    Yes, the single Balkan Iron Age sample seems to fall over current Sicilians, it is more shifted to the Middle East than previous Bronze age samples. If this is a proto Thracian, then they may have come from Anatolia and not from the North as it is mostly speculated. They have definitely worshipped the horse, this showing steppe connection, and not the bull, common for Minoans/Mycenaeans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    Yes, the single Balkan Iron Age sample seems to fall over current Sicilians, it is more shifted to the Middle East than previous Bronze age samples. If this is a proto Thracian, then they may have come from Anatolia and not from the North as it is mostly speculated. They have definitely worshipped the horse, this showing steppe connection, and not the bull, common for Minoans/Mycenaeans.
    Not necessarily. I strongly suspect what we're seeing here might have something to do with Armenoi (the LBA outlier from Crete).

    Edit: Bulgarian as a mixture of Balkans_IA and Slav_Bohemia (G25 Scaled)...

    [1] "distance%=2.5304"

    Bulgarian

    Balkans_IA,50.6
    Slav_Bohemia,49.4
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 02-24-2018 at 03:29 AM.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    Trojet, excellent work thank you for running the snps for the 2 Neolithic J2a farmers of Austria.

    So now with these 2 J2a-Z6048 from Neolithc Austria we have our third J2a-Z6048 farmer (other was found in Barcin).

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  13. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Trojet, excellent work thank you for running the snps for the 2 Neolithic J2a farmers of Austria.

    So now with these 2 J2a-Z6048 from Neolithc Austria we have our third J2a-Z6048 farmer (other was found in Barcin).
    So then it seems like J2a-Z6048 is likely a lineage that expanded out of Anatolia with Neolithic farmers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    So then it seems like J2a-Z6048 is likely a lineage that expanded out of Anatolia with Neolithic farmers.
    Yes absolutely, I wrote about it in my History of J2 thread (going to update now with these 2 samples), J2a-Z6048 along with J2a-Z6055 were Anatolian Neolithic Farmer lineages, their phylogenetic tree and TMRCA of branches suggested it and now there’s proof with 3 J2a-Z6048 (2x Austria and 1x Barcin) and 1 J2a-Z6055 (1x Neolithic Hungary) likely the other sample also belongs to it just lower quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Yes absolutely, I wrote about it in my History of J2 thread (going to update now with these 2 samples), J2a-Z6048 along with J2a-Z6055 were Anatolian Neolithic Farmer lineages, their phylogenetic tree and TMRCA of branches suggested it and now there’s proof with 3 J2a-Z6048 (2x Austria and 1x Barcin) and 1 J2a-Z6055 (1x Neolithic Hungary) likely the other sample also belongs to it just lower quality.
    My own subclade Z6065 looks to be more of a Bronze Age expansion eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    My own subclade Z6065 looks to be more of a Bronze Age expansion eh?
    Yeah it does, it should be associated with the spread of Iran Chalco/Armenia/South Caucasus like ancestry

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