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Thread: The Genomic History of Southeastern Europe - Mathieson, Reich, et al.

  1. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpr View Post
    Anyone check what this sample is like autosomally? I'm interested since I am U1a1a and this is a balkan sample:

    I2176 3338-3025 calBCE (447030 BP,Ly-5516 Bulgaria_EBA Smyadovo Bulgaria U1a1 I2a2a1b
    There's this (which you've probably already seen):
    Grey: northwestern Anatolian Neolithic
    Yellow: Yamnaya Samara
    Pink: EHG
    Green: WHG
    I2176.jpeg

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    Some russian guy check sample i6561 from Alexandria https://translate.google.cz/translat...tml&edit-text=

    I found in the source code a very interesting snapshot from the Ukrainian Eneoliter I6561 from the Alexandria burial ground (Kupyansk district of the Kharkov region):


    R1a-Z645: Z650 +, Z651 +

    R1a-Z93: Z2479 +

    R1a-Z94: Z95 +

    R1a-Y3: Y26 +, Y2-


    The Y3 sub-account is the parent of the L657 , which includes most of the South Asian R1a.


    Just in case, he asked Semargla to double-check the data: everything is normal - the result is consistent.



    Sample dating: 4045-3974 calBCE (5215 20BP, PSUAMS-2832)

    So these sample could be ancestor of L657?

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  5. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by 167273 View Post
    Some russian guy check sample i6561 from Alexandria https://translate.google.cz/translat...tml&edit-text=

    I found in the source code a very interesting snapshot from the Ukrainian Eneoliter I6561 from the Alexandria burial ground (Kupyansk district of the Kharkov region):


    R1a-Z645: Z650 +, Z651 +

    R1a-Z93: Z2479 +

    R1a-Z94: Z95 +

    R1a-Y3: Y26 +, Y2-


    The Y3 sub-account is the parent of the L657 , which includes most of the South Asian R1a.


    Just in case, he asked Semargla to double-check the data: everything is normal - the result is consistent.



    Sample dating: 4045-3974 calBCE (5215 20BP, PSUAMS-2832)

    So these sample could be ancestor of L657?
    Well, this would mean that the YFull TMRCA ages for R1a-Z94 and R1a-Y3 are underestimated by about 20%.

    So this is yet another ancient sample that confirms my strong suspicion that YFull underestimates by at least 10-20% (on average).
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ll=1#post95518
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....3984#post93984
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ll=1#post95524
    Last edited by Michał; 03-06-2018 at 09:50 AM.

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  7. #624
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    I just checked I5078 Sopot, Middle Neolithic, Osijek, Croatia. He is positive for 3 SNPs on the J2a1-Y13128 subclade: SK1363+ Y13134+ Y13131+ with the rest no calls. And negative for SNPs on the two downstream subclades. So his classification would be: J2a1-SK1363(xZ36827,Y14435)
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y13128/
    Last edited by Trojet; 03-07-2018 at 12:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    I just checked I5078 Sopot, Middle Neolithic, Osijek, Croatia. He is positive for 3 SNPs on the J2a1-Y13128 subclade: SK1363+ Y13134+ Y13131+ with the rest no calls. And negative for SNPs on the two downstream subclades. So his classification would be: J2a1-SK1363(xZ36827,Y14435)
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y13128/
    Thanks a lot Trojet this is the second J2a-Z6055 found in Neolithic Cultures other being in Hungary( Lengyl), its nice to see specific snps were able to be called and terminal clade is at Y13128.

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  11. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michał View Post
    Well, this would mean that the YFull TMRCA ages for R1a-Z94 and R1a-Y3 are underestimated by about 20%.

    So this is yet another ancient sample that confirms my strong suspicion that YFull underestimates by at least 10-20% (on average).
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ll=1#post95518
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....3984#post93984
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ll=1#post95524
    But surely, all TMRCA estimates tend to be lower than reality. It's just their nature. Especially at the ends of lines.
    Accurate TMRCAs depend on comparing many different examples of sublines.
    At first there are only a few, and the TMRCA is closer to now.
    As more are found the TMRCA moves back.
    Or are you saying that even taking this into account, YFull estimates tend to be low?

  12. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetro View Post
    Or are you saying that even taking this into account, YFull estimates tend to be low?
    Yes. This has nothing to do with the difference between the TMRCA age and the age of mutation that is used to define a given clade (in which case one should indeed expect the TMRCA age to increase following the discovery of some novel early diverged lineages that are positive for this particular SNP).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    I just checked I5078 Sopot, Middle Neolithic, Osijek, Croatia. He is positive for 3 SNPs on the J2a1-Y13128 subclade: SK1363+ Y13134+ Y13131+ with the rest no calls. And negative for SNPs on the two downstream subclades. So his classification would be: J2a1-SK1363(xZ36827,Y14435)
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y13128/
    Thanks Trojet! So it seems neolithic J2 was mostly part of a now small branch, while current J2 belongs almost completely to other (post neolithic) groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genetiker View Post
    I'm posting Y-SNP calls here:

    Y-SNP calls from ancient Southeastern Europe
    Have you looked at the M417+ sample I6561 from Alexandria, Ukraine?

    "R1a-Z645: Z650 +, Z651 +

    R1a-Z93: Z2479 +

    R1a-Z94: Z95 +

    R1a-Y3: Y26 +, Y2-"
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post359334

  17. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafc View Post
    Thanks Trojet! So it seems neolithic J2 was mostly part of a now small branch, while current J2 belongs almost completely to other (post neolithic) groups.
    What you say seems quite likely.

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