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Thread: U152 Specific Discussions from the New Papers released 10 May 2017

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Per new papers. Quotes from what Richard Rocca found so far.

    For reference
    -I0805 BB_Central_Europe U152 from Quedlinburg, Germany, U152>PF6658 2467-2142 BCE Mean 2305 BCE
    -RISE563 BB_Central_Europe U152 from Osterhofen-Altenmarkt, Germany. Cant find any dates for this site but based on this reference it has to be no earlier than 2500 BCE and no later than 1800 BCE. Lacking anything more concrete, a Mean of 2150 BCE
    -RISE471 Tumulus Culture, Untermeitingen, Germany, 1675-1515 BCE

    R1b1a1a2a1a2b1=R-U152>L2 in ISOGG tree version 11.110 (21 April 2016) which was used as reference in paper
    Quote Originally Posted by Larth View Post
    Are those samples on Gedmatch?
    Quote Originally Posted by haleaton View Post
    This link has samples on GEDMATCH Archaic comparisons:

    http://www.y-str.org/p/ancient-dna.html
    Felix stopped updating the Y-STR.org page last year and he never uploaded those to Gedmatch. See http://www.y-str.org/2016/07/focusin...om-now-on.html

    R.Rocca uploaded two of those -

    Quote Originally Posted by R.Rocca View Post
    I added the following two samples to GEDmatch:

    T644357 = RISE563 Bell Beaker, Osterhofen-Altenmarkt, Germany
    Haplogroup: R-P312+U152+

    T722032 = RISE471 Middle Bronze Age Tumulus Culture, Untermeitingen, Germany (no date given but traditionally ~1610-1450 BC)
    Haplogroup: R-P312+U152+L2+
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post192104

    Quote Originally Posted by haleaton View Post
    Any word on when NGS raw data is realeased for further analysis?
    The New Bell Beaker U152+ Samples will be at https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/datasets once the paper has been officially published.

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  3. #22
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    double post
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 06-16-2017 at 10:02 PM.
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  5. #23
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    Here is what T644357 RISE563 (currently oldest P312 and U152) looks like in the K36 tool found in this thread http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-rates-on-maps

    K36-T644357-Gedmatch-RISE563.png

    Closest to present day Dutch and Danish, followed by English and Scottish
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 06-17-2017 at 04:33 AM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

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  7. #24
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    I wonder if we spent more time updating L2 subclades on the ISOGG Tree scientists would have gone deeper in their paper, so we would not have to wait.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleaton View Post
    I wonder if we spent more time updating L2 subclades on the ISOGG Tree scientists would have gone deeper in their paper, so we would not have to wait.
    I guess I'm fortunate. On the ISOGG tree they go down to 1 branch above my current terminal branch...all the way down to R1b1a1a2a1a2b1c1b3a1 FGC12401/Y10984, which is 6 levels below L2
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Here is what T644357 RISE563 (currently oldest P312 and U152) looks like in the K36 tool found in this thread http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-rates-on-maps
    Do the colors put them by hand or is there a program that interprets the values?

    Thanks

    Regards
    Paternal: R1b-U152+ L2+ BY4245+ BY3485+ BY3478+ , Giovanni Domenicus Rabai, b. 1609, Savona, Italy
    Maternal: Haplogroup H65, María García Martínez, b. 1746, Cuenca, Spain

    Manuel David Rabaez 1974, Manuel Rabaez 1948, Manuel Rabaez 1912, Antonio Rabay 1868, Antonio Rabay 1833, Manuel Rabay 1791, Manuel Rabay 1764, Pedro Rabai 1727, Pedro Joseph Rabai 1691, Giovanni Battista Rabai 1647, Jo. Domenicus Rabai 1609, Pietrus Rabai (work in progress...)

  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Here is what T644357 RISE563 (currently oldest P312 and U152) looks like in the K36 tool found in this thread http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-rates-on-maps

    K36-T644357-Gedmatch-RISE563.png

    Closest to present day Dutch and Danish, followed by English and Scottish
    So why do you think the map doesn't show the usual high percentages for Northern Italy and Switzerland that present day R-U152 distribution maps usually demonstrate?
    FTDNA Big-Y SNP Results: R1b-U152+, L2+, Z367+, Z384+, L20+, CTS9733+, S10068+

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  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravai View Post
    Do the colors put them by hand or is there a program that interprets the values?

    Thanks

    Regards
    No program...done by hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celt_?? View Post
    So why do you think the map doesn't show the usual high percentages for Northern Italy and Switzerland that present day R-U152 distribution maps usually demonstrate?
    Just a guess, but as there was a ~95% replacement of the original population of the British Isles, and no subsequent replacement later, the British Isles remain similar to the original Bell Beaker arrivals.

    As to rest of of Northern Europe; e.g. Denmark and Netherlands, maybe the combination of P312 and U106 had a similar effect. U106 has it's highest percentage in the Netherlands and the pre-Germanic and later Germanic U106 invaders remained similar to the original Bell Beaker/Yamnaya admixture.

    Switzerland and Italy may not have been impacted as much by the arrival of U152; that is, there wasn't as huge of a population replacement and there was probably a lot more admixture as various groups came into the area after the original arrival of U152. The proximity to the Roman Empire may have had a larger admixture impact on these areas.

    Again this is just a guess...but hopefully an educated one.

    Just ran the numbers on T722032 = RISE471 Middle Bronze Age Tumulus Culture, Untermeitingen, Germany (no date given but traditionally ~1610-1450 BC) Haplogroup: R-P312+U152+L2+. It was noticeably different result from RISE563...closer to what you would expect with a peak in south central France, with north central and northwest France, and Switzerland being the next highest.

    When I have time, I will create a more detailed map later today for the results...but here is the original screenshot.
    K36-T722032-Gedmatch-RISE471.png
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 06-17-2017 at 05:57 PM.
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  14. #29
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    Thank you very much for the detailed reply!
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  16. #30
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    Colored map for T722032 = RISE471 Middle Bronze Age Tumulus Culture, Untermeitingen, Germany 1691-1519 BC Haplogroup: R-P312+U152+L2+ (EDIT Date updated)
    K36-T722032-Gedmatch-RISE471.png
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 06-18-2017 at 02:50 PM.
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