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Thread: Bell Beaker and V

  1. #1
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    Bell Beaker and V

    The Olalde et al Bell Beaker study has three V samples: a female German BB, a Scottish Neolithic female and a Spanish Calcolithic male (Y haplogroup I). I suppose this leaves the origin of V as unclear as ever. Any thoughts from anyone?

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    Sorry if I'm regurgitating things you already know, but as I'm V I thought I'd reply.
    43% of Sami have V, with the next highest (but much lower down being Basque, I think?). Pretty much after this it occurs at a similar frequency all across europe: 4-8%. I would support a European origin from WHG or EEF.

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    FWIW, Genographic thinks it originated in an Ice Age refugia in Europe of ancient European HG, maybe down near the far southern Iberian tip.
    Last edited by wombatofthenorth; 12-12-2017 at 12:17 AM.

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    Their modern heatmap for V is interesting in that Germany (other than for the very farthest northern fringes) down across through the Western Balkans to the very bottom are basically absent from the heat map but parts west, north and east of that all have it shown. So it would be spread evenly and lowly across all of Europe but there is a strange near absence of it from central Europe cutting southeast down to the top of Greece for some odd reason or another.

    They show all of NW Africa, Spain but not so much Portugal, much of France, all of Italy and the very farthest western shores of the Balakans but stopping even there before the Balakn peninsula, very southern England, a band across southern Scotland/very far northern England, Belgium, half of the Netherlands, extreme ultra far northern coast of Germany as well as most of eastern Germany (but not central, western or southern), Denmark, Poland, Baltics, Belarus, Ukraine, western Russia, Finland, northern Norway, northern and very far southern Sweden, Azerbaijan, a small area of western Bulgaria, a tiny fringe in far northern coastal central Turkey.

    Peaks in Mali, south central Ukraine, northern Sweden, NW Russia immediately across from far northern Finland.
    Last edited by wombatofthenorth; 12-12-2017 at 12:16 AM.

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    Just ordered a full mtDNA for my dad who is so far V3.

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    I'm HV0 which is pre-V me thinks. Dunno what to think of that tho

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    This new study posted elsewhere on Anthrogenica features ancient V, and the researchers comment on the possible origin/distribution of the haplogroup.

    "The multiple maternal legacy of the Late Iron Age group of Urville-Nacqueville (France, Normandy) documents a long-standing genetic contact zone in northwestern France."

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...e.0207459.s005

    "In order to document the evolution of European communities, we analysed 45 individuals from the Late Iron Age (La Tène) Urville-Nacqueville necropolis in northwestern France, a region recognized as a major cultural contact zone between groups from both sides of the Channel. The characterization of 37 HVS-I mitochondrial sequences and 40 haplogroups provided the largest maternal gene pool yet recovered for the European Iron Age...

    ...The maternal differentiation between the UN community and ancient Bronze Age groups is also linked to the notable presence of haplogroup V in the UN community (5.13%), whereas this haplogroup is absent or rare in European Bronze Age groups except for Early Bronze Age groups from Spain (3.57%). If the very low frequency of haplogroup V in European Bronze Age groups is potentially due to the current state of research, it is nevertheless worth noting that maternal link suggested with ancient groups from Southern Europe through similar V haplogroup frequencies was reinforced by the close genetic distances measured between the UN group and individuals associated with the Neolithic (Epicardial), Bell Beaker and Early Bronze Age complexes in Spain (Fst values of respectively 0.00215, 0.00288 and 0.00052) (S8 Table and S4 Fig). These observations may be linked to cultural and genetic exchanges along the Atlantic coast either during the Neolithic or Bronze Age. In fact, recent genome-wide data have provided convincing arguments showing that Neolithic populations from Great Britain were derived from migrants originating from the Iberian Peninsula and spreading along the Atlantic coast (perhaps linked to the diffusion of megalithic tombs [6])."
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    I see from the aDNA thread here that a Mesolithic woman from Cnoc Coig (Inner Hebrides) in the Population Replacement in Early Neolithic Britain study was apparently V. The paper was published in Nature. This might suggest a Mesolithic rather than Neolithic initial spread of V, unless this woman had some Neolithic maternal ancestry. There is a PCA where the woman, CnocCoig_1, clusters with other Mesolithic samples, roughly between the Holocene and Pleistocene samples and distant from the Neolithic ones. Given her dating this seems to me to make a Mesolithic scenario for the early spread of V more likely now. Hopefully we'll get some more samples to add to the picture at some stage...


    CnocCoig_1I3065(56.011625, -6.240016)NA 4256-3803 cal. BCE (5492±36 BP, SUERC-69249) Late_Mesolithic0.00668x0.96041x"0.99
    [0.72, 1.0]"V / HVXX

    Screenshot_20190416-111827.png
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
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    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    I see from the aDNA thread here that a Mesolithic woman from Cnoc Coig (Inner Hebrides) in the Population Replacement in Early Neolithic Britain study was apparently V. The paper was published in Nature. This might suggest a Mesolithic rather than Neolithic initial spread of V, unless this woman had some Neolithic maternal ancestry. There is a PCA where the woman, CnocCoig_1, clusters with other Mesolithic samples, roughly between the Holocene and Pleistocene samples and distant from the Neolithic ones. Given her dating this seems to me to make a Mesolithic scenario for the early spread of V more likely now. Hopefully we'll get some more samples to add to the picture at some stage...


    CnocCoig_1I3065(56.011625, -6.240016)NA 4256-3803 cal. BCE (5492±36 BP, SUERC-69249) Late_Mesolithic0.00668x0.96041x"0.99
    [0.72, 1.0]"V / HVXX

    Screenshot_20190416-111827.png
    Ajvide 52 and 29B were also apparently "V" samples according to the Skoglund study.
    Last edited by Eihwaz; 04-16-2019 at 01:42 PM.
    1 Jew_Ashkenazy_Poland +Volga-German Custom:AGUser_Eihwaz 1.7783 85.83 14.17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Ajvide 52 and 29B were also apparently "V" samples according to the Skoglund study.
    Thanks for that. Does anyone have a list of V aDNA samples to date?
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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