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Thread: East Eurasian in 'Tajik people'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    Bump, any more insights?

    It is actually quite sad regarding the 'Uzbekization' policies during the Soviet era and the resulting decline of Persianate culture and language in cities of Samarqand, Bukhara, Tirmiz etc but I won't get political here.

    I was actually wondering if groups like Soghdians and Bactrians maybe had differing percentages of pre-Turkic East Eurasian admixture. You can even see how Turkmens, who are probably descendants of Oghuz tribes who mixed with Khwarezmians are much less East Eurasian on average than Karluk groups like Uzbeks and Uyghurs, who are Karluk Turks mixed with native Soghdians and Tarimian/Tocharians respectively. We do have Kangju samples who were most likely Soghdians (as well as that of related Wusun and Saka groups). Does this shed any light on the topic?
    The Turkmen sample on GEDmatch is probably not very representative of Turkmens as a whole. The capital of Turkmenistan is in the far south and there's a good chance that's where the samples are based off of since the largest cosmopolitan centers usually provide genetic samples more often than not. Though this is just an assumption. If you look at the results of Uzbekistan Turkmens and Afghanistan Turkmens, these two groups tend to be much more EE than the Turkmenistan sample and are significantly closer to Uzbeks than to the Turkmenistan Turkmens.

    The reason why some Turkmens may be southern-shifted genetically though is more likely to do with the fact that a lower concentration of Turks settled there. Since Turkmenistan is further south than Uzbekistan and further from the Turkic homeland, it makes sense that the amount of Turks traveling there would be lesser in number. Its the same reason why Turks from West Asia have much less EE than those from Central Asia.
    Last edited by Mingle; 12-02-2018 at 09:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    The Turkmen sample on GEDmatch is probably not very representative of Turkmens as a whole. The capital of Turkmenistan is in the far south and there's a good chance that's where the samples are based off of since the largest cosmopolitan centers usually provide genetic samples more often than not. Though this is just an assumption. If you look at the results of Kazakhstan Turkmens and Afghanistan Turkmens, these two groups tend to be much more EE than the Turkmenistan sample and are significantly closer to Uzbeks than to the Turkmenistan Turkmens.

    The reason why some Turkmens may be southern-shifted genetically though is more likely to do with the fact that a lower concentration of Turks settled there. Since Turkmenistan is further south than Uzbekistan and further from the Turkic homeland, it makes sense that the amount of Turks traveling there would be lesser in number. Its the same reason why Turks from West Asia have much less EE than those from Central Asia.
    If Turkmen samples are from scientific studies, then unlikely they come from the capital. The capital is cosmopolitan attracting people from different regions of the country and abroad. For this reason scientists often collect samples from the regions that experienced least migrations. Another things to consider is Turkmens for centuries raided Persia bringing establishing slave markert and bringing wives from Persia . As far as I know it was prestigious for Turkmens to have Persian wives.

    PS Samples probably came from this study. Or the study took samples from Behar et al. It's interesting to note that Uzbeks and Ughurs have large EE component (yellow bar). And Turkmens (trm) and Tajiks (Tjk) are genetically closer to each other than each population to that of Uzbeks
    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/..._fig1_51630056
    Last edited by Volat; 12-02-2018 at 07:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    If Turkmen samples are from scientific studies, then unlikely they come from the capital. The capital is cosmopolitan attracting people from different regions of the country and abroad. For this reason scientists often collect samples from the regions that experienced least migrations. Another things to consider is Turkmens for centuries raided Persia bringing establishing slave markert and bringing wives from Persia . As far as I know it was prestigious for Turkmens to have Persian wives.

    PS Samples probably came from this study. Or the study took samples from Behar et al. It's interesting to note that Uzbeks and Ughurs have large EE component (yellow bar). And Turkmens (trm) and Tajiks (Tjk) are genetically closer to each other than each population to that of Uzbeks
    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/..._fig1_51630056
    They may not have been from Ashgabat then. The main reason I stated they'd be from Ashgabat is because Ashgabat is in the south, not necessarily because cosmopolitan. I mentioned that its cosmopolitan because I assumed that's why it would have been chosen. But if it wasn't from Ashgabat, then it likely would have been from somewhere else in southern Turkmenistan close to the Iranian border based on it having much less East Eurasian than the Afghanistan Turkmen and Uzbekistan Turkmen references on some GEDmatch calculators. I have heard that Turkmenistan has significant genetic diversity so a couple of southerners can't represent them as a whole. Also, some of the GEDmatch references are pretty flawed, so who knows how well the reference sample is representative of southern Turkmenistanis. I think the Georgian reference sample was produced by Behar as well and Georgians don't get it as a close population in their oracle. Anyways, here are the results of an Uzbek and see how close he is to Turkmens from Uzbekistan and Afghanistan compared to those from Turkmenistan:

    MLDP K16

     
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 23.61
    2 SouthEastAsian 19.19
    3 Siberian 16.99
    4 Indian 12.32
    5 Steppe 11.46
    6 NorthEastEuropean 7.68
    7 Neolithic 5.26
    8 Arctic 2.16
    9 Australian 0.55
    10 NearEast 0.41
    11 Amerindian 0.37

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Uzbek (Uzbekistan) 4.87
    2 Turkmen (Xojayli) 8
    3 Turkmen (Shumanay) 8.81
    4 Uygur (Xinjiang) 8.91
    5 Turkmen (Afghanistan) 9.08
    6 Uygur (Uzbekistan) 9.6
    7 Hazara (Afghanistan) 11.13
    8 Hazara (Baluchistan) 11.52
    9 Karakalpak (Karakalpakstan) 13.07
    10 Bashkir (Muradymovo) 16.62
    11 Turkmens (Turkmenistan) 17.19
    12 Tajiks (Afghanistan) 17.37
    13 Bashkir (Ufa) 17.44
    14 Lipka_Tatar (Belorus) 17.63
    15 Kyrgyz (Murgab) 17.66
    16 Bashkir (Bashkortostan) 17.68
    17 Uzbek (Afghanistan) 18.07
    18 Bashkir (Kildigulovo) 18.09
    19 Tajik (Lowland_Tajikistan) 18.76
    20 Kazakh (Tien_Shan) 19.06

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 78.8% Uygur (Xinjiang) + 21.2% Tabasaran (Dagestan) @ 2.42
    2 77.7% Uygur (Xinjiang) + 22.3% Dargin (Urkarah) @ 2.5
    3 76.6% Uygur (Xinjiang) + 23.4% Kumyk (Stalskoe) @ 2.55
    4 77.6% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 22.4% Tabasaran (Dagestan) @ 2.74
    5 78.6% Uygur (Xinjiang) + 21.4% Lak (Dagestan) @ 2.8
    6 75.2% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 24.8% Kumyk (Stalskoe) @ 2.82
    7 88.6% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 11.4% She (Zhejiang) @ 2.85
    8 76.5% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 23.5% Dargin (Urkarah) @ 2.87
    9 88.4% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 11.6% Miao (Guizhou) @ 2.89
    10 88.2% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 11.8% Han (China) @ 2.89
    11 76.8% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 23.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) @ 2.9
    12 78.7% Uygur (Xinjiang) + 21.3% Lezgin (Dagestan) @ 2.9
    13 88% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 12% Tujia (Hubei) @ 2.91
    14 76.3% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 23.7% Avar (Dagestan) @ 3.01
    15 88.5% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 11.5% Lahu (Yunnan) @ 3.01
    16 88.5% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 11.5% Vietnamese (CentralVietnam) @ 3.09
    17 77.3% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 22.7% Lak (Dagestan) @ 3.09
    18 89.5% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 10.5% Igorot (Philippines) @ 3.1
    19 89.1% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 10.9% Kinh (Vietnam) @ 3.11
    20 89.9% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 10.1% Atajal (Taiwan) @ 3.11


    MDLP K23b

     
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 18.08
    2 Tungus-Altaic 16.74
    3 South_Central_Asian 14.63
    4 South_East_Asian 10.88
    5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 10.17
    6 Ancestral_Altaic 6.8
    7 East_Siberian 6.23
    8 South_Indian 4.14
    9 Austronesian 3.55
    10 European_Early_Farmers 3.44
    11 Near_East 1.84
    12 Paleo_Siberian 0.89
    13 Melano_Polynesian 0.82
    14 Arctic 0.6
    15 Subsaharian 0.39
    16 Australoid 0.35
    17 Amerindian 0.35
    18 Khoisan 0.1
    19 North_African 0.02

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Uzbek ( ) 4.83
    2 Tajik_Tajikistan ( ) 7.71
    3 Turkmen_Afghan ( ) 9.06
    4 Uygur-Han ( ) 10.35
    5 Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) 10.52
    6 Karakalpak ( ) 10.82
    7 Uygur ( ) 12.72
    8 Tatar_Lithuania ( ) 13
    9 Crimean_Tatar_Step ( ) 13.98
    10 Hazara ( ) 14.48
    11 Tatar-Lithuanian ( ) 17.31
    12 Tatar-Siberian ( ) 17.39
    13 Tatar-Mishar ( ) 17.5
    14 Tatar-Kazan ( ) 17.62
    15 Tajik_Afghan ( ) 17.72
    16 Bashkir ( ) 17.94
    17 Tatar ( ) 18.25
    18 Chuvashs ( ) 19.01
    19 Tatar_Mishar ( ) 19.36
    20 Kazahs ( ) 19.45

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 75.7% Uygur-Han ( ) + 24.3% Nogai ( ) @ 2.99
    2 81.2% Uygur ( ) + 18.8% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 3.19
    3 78.6% Uygur ( ) + 21.4% Turk_Istanbul ( ) @ 3.26
    4 76.6% Uygur ( ) + 23.4% Turk_Aydin ( ) @ 3.26
    5 80.2% Uygur ( ) + 19.8% Azov_Greek ( ) @ 3.45
    6 83.3% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 16.7% Korean_KR ( ) @ 3.52
    7 78.9% Uygur ( ) + 21.1% Turk ( ) @ 3.58
    8 76.9% Uygur ( ) + 23.1% Turk_Balikesir ( ) @ 3.61
    9 80.9% Uygur ( ) + 19.1% Cirkassian ( ) @ 3.62
    10 71.6% Uygur ( ) + 28.4% Nogai ( ) @ 3.65
    11 78% Uygur ( ) + 22% Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) @ 3.71
    12 84.1% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 15.9% Korean ( ) @ 3.73
    13 79.1% Uygur ( ) + 20.9% Gagauz ( ) @ 3.75
    14 83.3% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 16.7% Japanese_ML ( ) @ 3.76
    15 83.7% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 16.3% Han-Mandarin ( ) @ 3.78
    16 82.8% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 17.2% Ryukyuan ( ) @ 3.8
    17 79.5% Uygur ( ) + 20.5% Turk_Kayseri ( ) @ 3.8
    18 80.5% Uygur ( ) + 19.5% Greek_Macedonia ( ) @ 3.89
    19 85.6% Uzbek ( ) + 14.4% Tatar-Lithuanian ( ) @ 3.9
    20 84.9% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 15.1% Han_North ( ) @ 3.91
    Last edited by Mingle; 12-03-2018 at 12:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    They may not have been from Dushanbe then. The main reason I stated they'd be from Dushanbe is because Dushanbe is in the south, not necessarily because cosmopolitan. I mentioned that its cosmopolitan because I assumed that's why it would have been chosen. But if it wasn't from Dushanbe, then it likely would have been from somewhere else in southern Turkmenistan close to the Iranian border based on it having much less East Eurasian than the Afghanistan Turkmen and Uzbekistan Turkmen references on some GEDmatch calculators. I have heard that Turkmenistan has significant genetic diversity so a couple of southerners can't represent them as a whole. Also, some of the GEDmatch references are pretty flawed, so who knows how well the reference sample is representative of southern Turkmenistanis. I think the Georgian reference sample was produced by Behar as well and Georgians don't get it as a close population in their oracle. Anyways, here are the results of an Uzbek and see how close he is to Turkmens from Uzbekistan and Afghanistan compared to those from Turkmenistan:

    MLDP K16

     
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 23.61
    2 SouthEastAsian 19.19
    3 Siberian 16.99
    4 Indian 12.32
    5 Steppe 11.46
    6 NorthEastEuropean 7.68
    7 Neolithic 5.26
    8 Arctic 2.16
    9 Australian 0.55
    10 NearEast 0.41
    11 Amerindian 0.37

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Uzbek (Uzbekistan) 4.87
    2 Turkmen (Xojayli) 8
    3 Turkmen (Shumanay) 8.81
    4 Uygur (Xinjiang) 8.91
    5 Turkmen (Afghanistan) 9.08
    6 Uygur (Uzbekistan) 9.6
    7 Hazara (Afghanistan) 11.13
    8 Hazara (Baluchistan) 11.52
    9 Karakalpak (Karakalpakstan) 13.07
    10 Bashkir (Muradymovo) 16.62
    11 Turkmens (Turkmenistan) 17.19
    12 Tajiks (Afghanistan) 17.37
    13 Bashkir (Ufa) 17.44
    14 Lipka_Tatar (Belorus) 17.63
    15 Kyrgyz (Murgab) 17.66
    16 Bashkir (Bashkortostan) 17.68
    17 Uzbek (Afghanistan) 18.07
    18 Bashkir (Kildigulovo) 18.09
    19 Tajik (Lowland_Tajikistan) 18.76
    20 Kazakh (Tien_Shan) 19.06

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 78.8% Uygur (Xinjiang) + 21.2% Tabasaran (Dagestan) @ 2.42
    2 77.7% Uygur (Xinjiang) + 22.3% Dargin (Urkarah) @ 2.5
    3 76.6% Uygur (Xinjiang) + 23.4% Kumyk (Stalskoe) @ 2.55
    4 77.6% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 22.4% Tabasaran (Dagestan) @ 2.74
    5 78.6% Uygur (Xinjiang) + 21.4% Lak (Dagestan) @ 2.8
    6 75.2% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 24.8% Kumyk (Stalskoe) @ 2.82
    7 88.6% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 11.4% She (Zhejiang) @ 2.85
    8 76.5% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 23.5% Dargin (Urkarah) @ 2.87
    9 88.4% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 11.6% Miao (Guizhou) @ 2.89
    10 88.2% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 11.8% Han (China) @ 2.89
    11 76.8% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 23.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) @ 2.9
    12 78.7% Uygur (Xinjiang) + 21.3% Lezgin (Dagestan) @ 2.9
    13 88% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 12% Tujia (Hubei) @ 2.91
    14 76.3% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 23.7% Avar (Dagestan) @ 3.01
    15 88.5% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 11.5% Lahu (Yunnan) @ 3.01
    16 88.5% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 11.5% Vietnamese (CentralVietnam) @ 3.09
    17 77.3% Uygur (Uzbekistan) + 22.7% Lak (Dagestan) @ 3.09
    18 89.5% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 10.5% Igorot (Philippines) @ 3.1
    19 89.1% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 10.9% Kinh (Vietnam) @ 3.11
    20 89.9% Turkmen (Afghanistan) + 10.1% Atajal (Taiwan) @ 3.11


    MDLP K23b

     
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 18.08
    2 Tungus-Altaic 16.74
    3 South_Central_Asian 14.63
    4 South_East_Asian 10.88
    5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 10.17
    6 Ancestral_Altaic 6.8
    7 East_Siberian 6.23
    8 South_Indian 4.14
    9 Austronesian 3.55
    10 European_Early_Farmers 3.44
    11 Near_East 1.84
    12 Paleo_Siberian 0.89
    13 Melano_Polynesian 0.82
    14 Arctic 0.6
    15 Subsaharian 0.39
    16 Australoid 0.35
    17 Amerindian 0.35
    18 Khoisan 0.1
    19 North_African 0.02

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Uzbek ( ) 4.83
    2 Tajik_Tajikistan ( ) 7.71
    3 Turkmen_Afghan ( ) 9.06
    4 Uygur-Han ( ) 10.35
    5 Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) 10.52
    6 Karakalpak ( ) 10.82
    7 Uygur ( ) 12.72
    8 Tatar_Lithuania ( ) 13
    9 Crimean_Tatar_Step ( ) 13.98
    10 Hazara ( ) 14.48
    11 Tatar-Lithuanian ( ) 17.31
    12 Tatar-Siberian ( ) 17.39
    13 Tatar-Mishar ( ) 17.5
    14 Tatar-Kazan ( ) 17.62
    15 Tajik_Afghan ( ) 17.72
    16 Bashkir ( ) 17.94
    17 Tatar ( ) 18.25
    18 Chuvashs ( ) 19.01
    19 Tatar_Mishar ( ) 19.36
    20 Kazahs ( ) 19.45

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 75.7% Uygur-Han ( ) + 24.3% Nogai ( ) @ 2.99
    2 81.2% Uygur ( ) + 18.8% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 3.19
    3 78.6% Uygur ( ) + 21.4% Turk_Istanbul ( ) @ 3.26
    4 76.6% Uygur ( ) + 23.4% Turk_Aydin ( ) @ 3.26
    5 80.2% Uygur ( ) + 19.8% Azov_Greek ( ) @ 3.45
    6 83.3% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 16.7% Korean_KR ( ) @ 3.52
    7 78.9% Uygur ( ) + 21.1% Turk ( ) @ 3.58
    8 76.9% Uygur ( ) + 23.1% Turk_Balikesir ( ) @ 3.61
    9 80.9% Uygur ( ) + 19.1% Cirkassian ( ) @ 3.62
    10 71.6% Uygur ( ) + 28.4% Nogai ( ) @ 3.65
    11 78% Uygur ( ) + 22% Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) @ 3.71
    12 84.1% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 15.9% Korean ( ) @ 3.73
    13 79.1% Uygur ( ) + 20.9% Gagauz ( ) @ 3.75
    14 83.3% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 16.7% Japanese_ML ( ) @ 3.76
    15 83.7% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 16.3% Han-Mandarin ( ) @ 3.78
    16 82.8% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 17.2% Ryukyuan ( ) @ 3.8
    17 79.5% Uygur ( ) + 20.5% Turk_Kayseri ( ) @ 3.8
    18 80.5% Uygur ( ) + 19.5% Greek_Macedonia ( ) @ 3.89
    19 85.6% Uzbek ( ) + 14.4% Tatar-Lithuanian ( ) @ 3.9
    20 84.9% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 15.1% Han_North ( ) @ 3.91



    ^ Ashgabat is the capital of Turkmenistan, Dushanbe is the capital of Tajikistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    The EE among Pashtuns is likely almost exclusively pre-Turkic, but I don't think the same can be said for Tajiks.
    Let's find out (please bear in mind this run is optimised for flushing out the East Eurasian percentages and not the Iranian agriculturalist, LNBA steppe etc. ancestries, as these are embedded within all of the ref pops to varying degrees):

    Code:
    	Model	Sample	Details	Fit	Map	Gonur1 BA	Hasanlu IA	Irula	Kangju	Karakhanid	Mongola	Sarmatian Urals
    1	Gonur1_BA +Hasanlu_IA +Irula +Kangju +Karakhanid +Mongola +Sarmatian_Urals	Custom:AGUser_Rukha		1.6939	Open Map	48.33	0	12.5	26.67	0	0	12.5
    2	Gonur1_BA +Hasanlu_IA +Irula +Kangju +Karakhanid +Mongola +Sarmatian_Urals	Custom:AGUser_surbakhun		2.0203	Open Map	48.33	4.17	12.5	25	1.67	0	8.33
    3	Gonur1_BA +Hasanlu_IA +Irula +Kangju +Karakhanid +Mongola +Sarmatian_Urals	Pashtun:Pashtun2_20Af		1.8213	Open Map	36.67	0	15.83	35.83	4.17	0.83	6.67
    4	Gonur1_BA +Hasanlu_IA +Irula +Kangju +Karakhanid +Mongola +Sarmatian_Urals	Pashtun:Pashtun2_22Af		1.7818	Open Map	40	3.33	13.33	36.67	0	0.83	5.83
    5	Gonur1_BA +Hasanlu_IA +Irula +Kangju +Karakhanid +Mongola +Sarmatian_Urals	Pashtun:Pashtun2_8Af		1.762	Open Map	37.5	0	13.33	45	1.67	0	2.5
    6	Gonur1_BA +Hasanlu_IA +Irula +Kangju +Karakhanid +Mongola +Sarmatian_Urals	Tajik:S_Tajik-1		1.7937	Open Map	27.5	0	6.67	55	0	0	10.83
    7	Gonur1_BA +Hasanlu_IA +Irula +Kangju +Karakhanid +Mongola +Sarmatian_Urals	Tajik:S_Tajik-2		2.3255	Open Map	30.83	0	2.5	45.83	0	0	20.83
    Worth pointing out that everyone happens to do very well as a Gonur Tepe + Kangju + Irula combination.

    Same samples, but different ref pops (to determine the E. Eurasian present in each):

    Code:
    	Model	Sample	Details	Fit	Map	Irula	Korean	Namazga Eneolithic	Shahr I Sokhta BA1	Sintashta MLBA
    1	Irula +Korean +Namazga_Eneolithic +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Sintashta_MLBA	Custom:AGUser_Rukha		2.2297	Open Map	15	2.5	42.5	12.5	27.5
    2	Irula +Korean +Namazga_Eneolithic +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Sintashta_MLBA	Custom:AGUser_surbakhun		3.1151	Open Map	13.33	1.67	36.67	24.17	24.17
    3	Irula +Korean +Namazga_Eneolithic +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Sintashta_MLBA	Pashtun:Pashtun2_20Af		2.7701	Open Map	16.67	4.17	24.17	26.67	28.33
    4	Irula +Korean +Namazga_Eneolithic +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Sintashta_MLBA	Pashtun:Pashtun2_22Af		2.5168	Open Map	16.67	1.67	39.17	14.17	28.33
    5	Irula +Korean +Namazga_Eneolithic +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Sintashta_MLBA	Pashtun:Pashtun2_8Af		2.5148	Open Map	15	1.67	29.17	21.67	32.5
    6	Irula +Korean +Namazga_Eneolithic +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Sintashta_MLBA	Tajik:S_Tajik-1		2.7125	Open Map	10	2.5	40	4.17	43.33
    7	Irula +Korean +Namazga_Eneolithic +Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1 +Sintashta_MLBA	Tajik:S_Tajik-2		3.0819	Open Map	5.83	0.83	34.17	12.5	46.67
    Going individually (on the basis of Karakhanid being half East Eurasian, rounding each value):
    - Rukha (northern Afghan Tajik)'s East Eurasian (2.5%) looks entirely pre-Turkish, pre-Mongol.
    - surbakhunWessste (Durrani Afghan Pashtun)'s ~2%. Hers looks to be an even split between Turkish and pre-Turkish (no Mongol).
    - Pashtun2_20Af is ~4%; resembles surbakhun.
    - Pashtun2_22Af is ~2%, resembles Rukha.
    - Pashtun2_8Af ~2%; resembles surbakhun.
    - S_Tajik-1 is 3%; resembles Rukha.
    - S_Tajik-2 is 1%; resembles Rukha.

    Obviously, the sample size is very small, so this isn't conclusive, but the general trend is quite clear - Pashtuns and Tajiks generally derive at least half of their East Eurasian from pre-Turkish, pre-Mongol sources; specifically a Kangju-like population. Where there are later contributions for East Eurasian, it appears to be Turkish-derived (where, how and if the Hephthalites fit into this is open speculation; there's evidence of Turkic influence among them culturally).

    The EE among Pamiris is likely mostly pre-Turkic, but I can imagine a portion of it being Turkic as well given their geography.
    Please see the runs I did yesterday (you're right - The majority of the East Eurasian in Tajiks is from a Kangju-like source, but a pinch of Karakhanid and Mongola does register for some).

    In case it needs mentioning (given how controversial these discussions can become), I don't have any biases regarding the ethnogenesis of any South-Central Asian group and I simply follow what the data shows.
    The above could be very wrong, but it looks pretty consistent among all the Pashtuns and Tajiks we have so far (pre-Turkish, pre-Mongol sources for their East Eurasian constitute the biggest contribution).

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    delete
    Last edited by Volat; 12-03-2018 at 12:30 AM.

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    Just looked at faces of Uzbeks of Uzbekistan, Tajiks of Tajikistan and Turkmens of Turkmens. If yoo can find people with mongoloid features among Uzbeks and Ughurs living in the north close to the borders of Kazakhstan and Mongolia, then it's fairly difficult to find such features among Tajiks and Turkmens.

    Turkmenistan was also on pathway of proto-Indo-Iranians, as they migrated south from the north. Legendary archaeologist Victor Sarianidi uncovered chariot and a pot in which soma drink was made. It was in Turkmenistan : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Sarianidi

    Turkmen girls

     


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    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    If yoo can find people with mongoloid features among Uzbeks and Ughurs living in the north close to the borders of Kazakhstan and Mongolia, then it's fairly difficult to find such features among Tajiks and Turkmens.
    Hm, what about these guys?




    These are former and current presidents of Turkmenistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rozenfeld View Post
    Hm, what about these guys?

    Just a fat man. Take a look when he was younger. Many Turkmen girls. Find one with mongoloid features : https://www.google.com/search?q=%D1%...w=1600&bih=787

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    ^ I've known some Turkmens from Afghanistan, and they were East Eurasian but very light skinned and also light eyed and practiced Ismailism. Also, known a fair amount of Uzbeks, mostly from Afghanistan, but also a group of girls from Tashkent, and they all resembled Tajiks. These populations are generally very diverse so I would say its best not to generalize.

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