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Thread: Interesting Pennsylvania Dutch (German) Ethnicity estimate. Why so British?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    i have one line that starts across the border from PA in Harpers Ferry
    The border, in that case, is the state of Maryland. Admittedly, it's a small and peculiarly shaped state, looks more like a congressional district in the deep south, but anyway it's a state. Cross the Potomac at Harper's Ferry, PA is still a right smart piece. Possibly, teeming with Fertigs.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    The border, in that case, is the state of Maryland. Admittedly, it's a small and peculiarly shaped state, looks more like a congressional district in the deep south, but anyway it's a state. Cross the Potomac at Harper's Ferry, PA is still a right smart piece. Possibly, teeming with Fertigs.
    Good point. Harpers Ferry is about 50 miles south of Gettysburg. And "Jacob Fertig" might as well be "John Smith" of that area. For all I know, this may be his father:
    John Fertig
    Birth: Sep. 6, 1762
    Chester County
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Death: Mar. 31, 1840
    Luzerne County
    Pennsylvania, USA

    A death notice appeared in Die Stimme de Volks, a German language newspaper printed at Orwigsburg:

    "31 March 1840 Sugarloaf Twp., Luzerne County - John Fertig one-time inhabitant of Union Township, Schuylkill County served in the Revolutionary War, was an honoured citizen and treasured by all who knew him. April 1 his bones were laid to rest at the cemetery at Frieden's Church [now Trinity Black Creek Twp.]. May his ashes rest in peace."

    John is among Captain Beatty's Company in the second Battalion of Chester County Militia Commanded by Col. Thomas Bull who were ordered on an immediate tour of duty on September 24, 1781. See Publications of the Pennsylvania Archives, Fifth Series, Volume 5, page 542.

    He married Martaretha Ache and they had the following children:

    1. Henry Furtig b 21 May 1786
    2. Sarah Furtig Furman b 1790
    3. John Furtig
    4. Jacob Furtig


    Family links:
    Parents:
    Hans Johannes John Fertig (1736 - 1831)
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Good point. Harpers Ferry is about 50 miles south of Gettysburg. And "Jacob Fertig" might as well be "John Smith" of that area. For all I know, this may be his father:
    When I did a quick search yesterday, I also zeroed in on the Fertig family in Chester county as good possibility. If the number of family trees with Hans Johannes John Fertig on ancestry.com is any indication, it sure seems like he had a lot of descendants, or people that at least have reason to think they are related. I am sure there are other possibilities to consider, but I do think they are worthwhile to investigate, as you have.

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  6. #34
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    FTDNA MyOrigins comparison to Ancestry Ethnicity Estimate

    Since I think I can post images now I thought I would post the comparisons of my families FTDNA MyOrigins to Ancestry's Ethnicity Estimate. My father actually had his DNA tested with them, My mother's and my own are just the result from uploading our raw DNA files. I forgot all about the FTDNA results until this comment from emmental reminded me.

    Quote Originally Posted by emmental View Post
    Most of the calculators on GED Match list me as North Atlantic of some type. The original results from my FTDNA My Origins was mostly Scandinavian. I was pleased when I heard they were updating My Origins. I was disheartened to see the new results listed as 71% British Isles and 27% Southeast Europe. Can't wait to see what the next update will bring.
    My dad also originally had Scandinavian as his highest result, I think it was only around 30% though. Here is his results after their update compared with ancestry.

    Dad's
     



    The high Iberian is at least is pretty consistent.


    Mom's
     





    Mine
     



    This was just funny.


    I look forward to getting tested with Living DNA after they complete their German DNA Research Project, I will at least get better understanding about my parents haplogroups. My father just has an estimation for his Y, J-M172.

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayden View Post
    Since I think I can post images now I thought I would post the comparisons of my families FTDNA MyOrigins to Ancestry's Ethnicity Estimate. My father actually had his DNA tested with them, My mother's and my own are just the result from uploading our raw DNA files. I forgot all about the FTDNA results until this comment from emmental reminded me.



    My dad also originally had Scandinavian as his highest result, I think it was only around 30% though. Here is his results after their update compared with ancestry.

    Dad's
     



    The high Iberian is at least is pretty consistent.


    Mom's
     





    Mine
     



    This was just funny.


    I look forward to getting tested with Living DNA after they complete their German DNA Research Project, I will at least get better understanding about my parents haplogroups. My father just has an estimation for his Y, J-M172.
    Did you have STRs tested at FTDNA? We are J2 PA Dutch as well, which is a pretty small group at the moment.
    Paternal Line: Rhineland Germany (J2-Z387) - Confirmed
    Maternal Grandfather - (Škofja Loka, Slovenia) - R1a1 - Y2613 - Confirmed
    Paternal G-Grandfather - Germany - R1b - U106 - Confirmed
    Maternal G-Grandfather - Briano, Caserta, Italy - Possible R1b - L51

  9. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayden View Post
    When I did a quick search yesterday, I also zeroed in on the Fertig family in Chester county as good possibility. If the number of family trees with Hans Johannes John Fertig on ancestry.com is any indication, it sure seems like he had a lot of descendants, or people that at least have reason to think they are related. I am sure there are other possibilities to consider, but I do think they are worthwhile to investigate, as you have.
    Much appreciated.
    This link just about made my head explode (click if you dare, welcome to the rabbit hole):
    http://www.fertich.org/fertig.john.chester.co.1.htm
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward J View Post
    Did you have STRs tested at FTDNA? We are J2 PA Dutch as well, which is a pretty small group at the moment.
    Yes actually, and I don’t mind sharing. My father has already provided information to public YDNA projects.
     

    This is one of the public projects. Him and his super distant cousin are the Simon Schneider line.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

    It does seem pretty rare in the region of Europe West, definitely not what we expected. When my fathers distant cousin in California got his Y-Dna tested in the late 90's (Early days with Nat Geo, I believe) they said he likely wasn't descended from the paternal line he thought he was. Luckily, when my dad found out about his side of the family, and vise versa they proved both their lines back to their first common ancestor in the Rhineland-Paletinate in the 1600s. Only took about 20 years...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Much appreciated.
    This link just about made my head explode (click if you dare, welcome to the rabbit hole):
    http://www.fertich.org/fertig.john.chester.co.1.htm
    Holy… Wow! That is just crazy that anyone found and put all of that together. Looks complicated, lol.

  11. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayden View Post
    Yes actually, and I don’t mind sharing. My father has already provided information to public YDNA projects.
     

    This is one of the public projects. Him and his super distant cousin are the Simon Schneider line.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

    It does seem pretty rare in the region of Europe West, definitely not what we expected. When my fathers distant cousin in California got his Y-Dna tested in the late 90's (Early days with Nat Geo, I believe) they said he likely wasn't descended from the paternal line he thought he was. Luckily, when my dad found out about his side of the family, and vise versa they proved both their lines back to their first common ancestor in the Rhineland-Paletinate in the 1600s. Only took about 20 years...


    R
    Holy… Wow! That is just crazy that anyone found and put all of that together. Looks complicated, lol.
    Great thanks!! You can see mine as the lone J2 in the Small project. https://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/small/results

    GED match M143516 and M397644.
    Paternal Line: Rhineland Germany (J2-Z387) - Confirmed
    Maternal Grandfather - (Škofja Loka, Slovenia) - R1a1 - Y2613 - Confirmed
    Paternal G-Grandfather - Germany - R1b - U106 - Confirmed
    Maternal G-Grandfather - Briano, Caserta, Italy - Possible R1b - L51

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  13. #39
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    I sent a Ancestry sample to My Heritage to see what they would say. Came back 96% North West Euro, which while way inflated catches my PA Dutch as my top Ancestry, while Ancestry itself only gives me 21% Europe West.

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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayden View Post
    Hello, this is my first time posting instead of just lurking. I thought I would share some of my family results on the off chance someone other than myself might find them interesting. And hopefully to get some feedback on why the results may of came back the way they did. I am also curious to know if others who are of Pennsylvania Dutch descent or from in and around Rhineland-Palatinate in western Europe have had similar results or wildly different ones.

    A bit of a quick background on PA Dutch curtsy of wikipedia.


    My family tree information is pretty full. Thanks in large part to my dads Genealogy hobby, I have information on 247 direct ancestors on my fathers side and 214 on my mothers. Between my fathers work tracing back in time and Ancestry DNA’s cousin matching feature that has helped to confirm the various paper trials I can say my father is very Pennsylvania Dutch, in fact it looks as though he could well be 100%

    So I was pretty confused when I got these results back from his DNA test:

    95% European
    27% Great Britain
    20% Europe West
    17% Iberian Peninsula
    11% Scandinavia
    8 % Ireland
    Low Confidence Regions
    6% Italy/Greece
    5% Europe East
    2% European Jewish
    5% Caucasus

    Genetic Communities™
    Settlers of Colonial Pennsylvania - 95% confidence
    Settlers of the Poconos & North Jersey - 60% confidence
    Settlers of the Susquehanna River Valley - 20% confidence

    I didn’t expect it to come back 100% western European, far from it. I have a reasonable understanding of European history and I expected a wide variety of groups to be represented. But only 20% Europe West? And why so much British? Sure the English were largely decedents from the French and German so maybe it just classified based on the presumably close Genetic Distance? If that is the case, what explains the 8% Irish?

    This was made all the more confusing after getting my mothers test results back.

    98% European
    61% Europe West
    20% Ireland
    Low Confidence Regions
    5% Italy/Greece
    4% Iberian Peninsula
    2% European Jewish
    2% Europe East
    1% Finland/Northwest Russia
    <1% Great Britain
    2% Caucasus

    Genetic Communities™
    Settlers of Colonial Pennsylvania - 95% confidence
    Settlers of the Poconos & North Jersey - 95% confidence

    My mother has 1/4 of a mixture of Welsh, Irish and English according to her family tree, and as much as 75% PA Dutch. Her results on their own were not that surprising. The Irish showed up about what was expected. Having less than 1% GB was a little odd at first, but then I realized all of her English ancestors I knew of were either on the welsh border like Herefordshire, or from the north, like Cheshire, Lancashire, and Yorkshire. That DNA could likely be lumped in with the Irish, Welsh, and Scottish. It was mainly odd in its stark contrast to my fathers. The 61% Europe West seems correct, but higher than expected given typical native average is only 48%. The oddest part to me was that all the Germanic ancestors on both sides of my family came from the same regions of Germany and western Europe in general. the only difference being that my mother had a pair of 4th Great-grandparents who came over from Prussia (Neuwied, Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany) in 1860, instead of the early to mid 1700’s like the rest of our Western European ancestors.

    When I uploaded the kits to GedMatch and ran a few tests, they didn’t look so different anymore.

    Father's Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
     
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1. North_Atlantic - 44.07
    2. Baltic - 20.08
    3. West_Med - 16.64
    4. East_Med - 8.03
    5. West_Asian - 7.53
    6. Red_Sea - 1.32
    7. Siberian - 0.89
    8. South_Asian - 0.44
    9. Oceanian - 0.35
    10. Northeast_African - 0.24
    11. Sub-Saharan - 0.23
    12. Amerindian - 0.19

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1. South_Dutch - 2.65
    2. West_German - 3.07
    3. French - 5.02
    4. Southeast_English - 7.81
    5. Southwest_English - 8.89
    6. North_German - 9.68
    7. Orcadian - 9.8
    8. North_Dutch - 10.38
    9. Danish - 10.56
    10. Irish - 10.59
    11. Austrian - 10.72
    12. West_Scottish - 10.91
    13. East_German - 12.54
    14. Spanish_Cataluna - 12.58
    15. Norwegian - 12.84
    16. Swedish - 13.87
    17. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon - 13.92
    18. Spanish_Galicia - 13.94
    19. Portuguese - 13.97
    20. Spanish_Cantabria - 14.92


    Mother's Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
     
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1. North_Atlantic - 43.56
    2. Baltic - 24.37
    3. West_Med - 15.36
    4. East_Med - 7.6
    5. West_Asian - 6.28
    6. East_Asian - 1.17
    7. Red_Sea - 0.83
    8. Sub-Saharan - 0.43
    9. Amerindian - 0.41

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1. West_German - 2.68
    2. South_Dutch - 2.78
    3. Southeast_English - 7.04
    4. North_German - 7.05
    5. Austrian - 7.62
    6. French - 8.02
    7. North_Dutch - 8.41
    8. Danish - 8.46
    9. Orcadian - 8.67
    10. Southwest_English - 8.88
    11. East_German - 9.04
    12. Irish - 9.73
    13. West_Scottish - 10.32
    14. Norwegian - 10.44
    15. Swedish - 10.8
    16. Hungarian - 12.28
    17. North_Swedish - 14.62
    18. Spanish_Cataluna - 15.54
    19. Serbian - 16.39
    20. Spanish_Galicia - 16.63


    So my father does cluster with the West German after all? If this is the case, whats going on with the Ancestry results?

    Here are a list of my Father's direct ancestors surnames:
     
    Angstadt
    Breil
    Breidegam
    Braun
    Brombacher
    Brunner
    Busch
    Christ/Christmann
    Derr
    Dietrich
    Drach
    Ebbert
    Erlander
    Essig
    Fegley/Vögli
    Fies
    Fischer
    Frey/Frei
    Gaertner/Gärtner
    George/Georg
    Haas
    Hantz
    Heffner
    Hilbert
    Holben
    Kassel
    Keller
    Kistler
    Klein
    Kunkel
    Kurtz
    Lentz/Lenz
    Leitheiser/Leithauser
    Levan
    Martz/Mertz
    Maul
    Meck/Mack
    Moser/Musser
    Moyer
    Orstel/Borstel
    Rausch
    Reider
    Ritter
    Ruppert
    Sassemanhausen
    Schlockerman
    Schmitt
    Schneider
    Schuster
    Schwab
    Steinbruch
    Strauch
    Wagner
    Weber
    Weiss
    Weidner
    Will
    Zimmerman
    Zode


    And here are my Mother's direct ancestor surnames:
     

    Adams
    Buck
    Bittenbender
    Clingman
    Cawley
    Cox
    Defrehn
    Dewalt
    Dieffenbauch
    Diehl
    Drach
    Dugan
    Ebbert
    Engel
    Faust
    Fryman
    Gearhart
    George
    Gilbert
    Gross
    Haeuser
    Harter
    Heller
    Henry
    Hertzel
    Hess
    Hoffman
    Hutton
    Keiper
    Keller
    Kneple
    Lawall
    Longfield
    Longenberger
    Lowe
    Mason
    Melick
    Maurer/Mowery
    Metzger
    Miller
    Naulin
    Parr
    Philips
    Price
    Prosser
    Puberbach
    Readler
    Reese
    Reichard
    Reider
    Richard
    Robinholt/Rabenold
    Schlosser
    Schober
    Schwin
    Sell
    Shuman
    Smith
    Springer
    Tanner
    Umstead
    Van Hise
    Walter
    Weaver
    Weber
    Wenner
    Young
    Interesting story Hayden. My oldest ancestors with the same surname as I have were in the early 17th century among so called Groninger Oud Vlamingen, or Ukke Wallist, they were a very strict sect.

    See:
    https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Gr...ish_Mennonites

    These ancestors were alderman the Ukke Wallists meetings were held in their barn (it's been attested in 1642). But being a strict group later generation left or had to leave this anabaptist communities (my family became in the generations after that sudden Franciscan Catholic). There seems to be Mennonites in Alexanderwohl in Kansas that still feel connected to the Groninger Oud Vlamingen.....http://alexanderwohl.org/about-us/#History

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