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Thread: Awan Tribe DNA Test. J2A-M410 Need help understanding.

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Awan Tribe DNA Test. J2A-M410 Need help understanding.

    Hello,

    I belong to the Salt Range area in Punjab, Pakistan. My ancestors have been living in this area for hundreds of years. Our tribe name is Awan.

    I sent LivingDNA a test sample a few months ago and recently got my results. I'm very surprised to say the least!

    Please help me understand these results. (I am unable to post images so posting results)

    I am J2A-M410

    In my Overview I am getting: 83.1 % South Asian.
    My regional breakup (of the 83.1%) is: 42.6 Sindhi, 26.7 % Indian Subcontinent, 13.7 % Pushtoon.

    Of the remaining 16.9 %.
    6.7% Europe: Northwestern Europe 3.1%, Germanic 2.3%, Orkney Island 1.3%.
    4.1 % Near East: North Turkey 2.4%. Armenia & Cyprus 1.7%.
    2.1 % East Asia: South China
    4 % Unassigned.

    From my Father line my coverage Map is as follows:

    1). 29% Sephardic Jewish
    2). 28% Turkey
    3). 28% Kurdish
    4). 27% Georgia
    5). 25% Lebanon
    6). 23% Iran
    7). 23% Askanazi Jewish
    8). 22% Iraq
    9). 22% Punjabi (which is the area I live in)
    10). 21% Greece
    11). 21% Caucasus
    12). 20% Albania
    13). 17% Sicily
    14). 17% Palestine
    15). 16 % Pakistan (Which is the country I live in)
    16). 14% Basque
    etc etc.

    Motherline:

    Haplogroup M

    M18'38

    Top 3 areas. 74 % Tibet. 71 % Ryukyu Islands, 70 % Japan. ?!? Completely amazed by this one.
    My mothers side of the family two/three generations up was based in the area we live in for eons.


    A few questions I have and would greatly appreciate more knowledgeable members answering along with any other information.

    1). What does J2A-m410 mean in terms of paternal lineage ? Does it signify a middle eastern lineage ?

    2). Our tribe traces it's linage back to the tribe of Banu Hashim of the Quresh of Arabia. I read somewhere that direct descendants of Banu Hashim are J21 variety, are they ?

    3). How can someone whose family has been living in the same place for about 300 years confirmed (atleast) have 7 % European and 4 % Turkish DNA ?? Does it mean I had a grandmother from those areas ?

    4). The father line ancestry groups are a complete surprise. What does it mean ? We do claim decent from Abraham (who was Jewish) though the Quresh.

    5). On the Family Ancestry visualization it says the composition is from the last 10 generations. Does it mean in the previous 10 generations I have a Germanic, Pushtoon or Northwestern ancestor ?? (The one with the 83.1% and 16.9% breakup).

    Any information would be extremely helpful.

    Thanks,

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  3. #2
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    Thanks for sharing your results. I'll try to assist with some thoughts on your questions:

    1) J2a-M410 is a very broad haplogroup assignment and this Y-DNA signature can be found from India to Spain. You may find in your raw data some more refined mutations that put you into a more specific branch of J-M410.
    2) Banu Hashim-you'll probably find a variety of haplogroups, most common being J-P58 (a branch of J1). I've read the king of Jordan is in this branch but never seen anything official. I do know there are many Banu Hashim in J2 as well.
    3) My personal opinion of Autosomal DNA is that there is still much subjective interpretation to results. You have to take these things with a grain of salt. That being said, I think autosomal DNA analysis is increasingly getting better as reference populations increase. Still, you'll test with one company it will define one way, another will say something else. Its not that either is inaccurate, its just that sometimes, what they use to define a population can be found in other populations so reference data becomes very important in interpretation. Its getting better, but to give you an example, I am approx. 10% Native American and 23andme says I have Mongolian ancestry that entered my family tree 200 years ago. The truth is 23andme is trying to say too much, all its picking up is East Asian markers.
    4. Your father line does seem to show some interesting results. J2a-M410 is quite common in Pakistan-found to a high degree in Brahui and all ethnic groups I think. Its also been in India for a long time. Still, worth looking at if you can refine that terminal Y-chromosome subclade.
    5. again, these analyses are trying to say too much. Its saying the genetic signals they define as Germanic etc... are likely coming into your tree at a given point of time, but very likely its not a German ancestor who got lost in Central Asia

    I hope this helps. I would recommend you try to get your raw data and research your Y-Chromosome more. You will likely be surprised to see where your terminal branch is found today.

  4. #3
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    M18 is an India specific MTDNA haplogroup

  5. #4
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    At ddugas Thank you very much. I'll contact LivingDNA and see if I can get hold of my raw data.

    Which would be the best test to take for getting much detail on lineage as possible ? Is it the one they call Y-111 ?

    Also any recommendations as to which other company offers the most detailed/specific lineage results ?

    At Jortita Thanks.

  6. #5
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    Family tree dna is probably still the best place for Y Chromosome testing. You could get a Y-111 or a Y-67 but the Big Y will test and find Y chromosome SNP's, which are used as nodes to build the Y chromosome tree. Seems like Y testing has largely moved towards SNP tests but the STR (Y-111 etc...) are still very useful for recent genetic genealogical comparisons.

  7. #6
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    Ok, thank you.

    I just got my raw data from LivingDNA. They recently allowed downloading RAW data. I was able to download three files including my FTDNA.

    The file is an Excel file and goes something like this. These are the first 23 lines, it goes on for about 240 lines. It was marked Fatherline Positive SNP's.

    Any ideas as to what this means or how I can decode this information ?

    Thanks.


    AM00847/AMM008/B65
    AM01921.2/S475.2/Z2983.2
    CTS10083
    CTS10362/M5770
    CTS109/M8948
    CTS10946/M5804
    CTS11750/PF4618/YSC0001250
    CTS11787/PF4621/YSC0001251
    CTS11827/M5816
    CTS1217/M5597
    CTS125/M5576
    CTS1250/PF4510/YSC0001255
    CTS1996/M5651
    CTS2229/PF6254
    CTS2254/M3680/PF2657
    CTS3460/M5670
    CTS3936/PF4543/YSC0001275
    CTS4076/Z1011
    CTS4349/PF4547
    CTS4443/M3696/PF2677
    CTS5318/M5690
    CTS543/M5584
    CTS5545.1/CTS5545.2/M3163.1/M3163.2/PF4554.1/PF4554.2/YSC0001284.1/YSC0001284.2

  8. #7
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    Upload into gedmatch. There are other calculators that you can use to analyse your data.

  9. #8
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    Hello again,

    Took the Big Y 111 at FTDNA and after the results took the SNP pack M172. Ended up with FT-DNA saying I'm J-PF5050.

    Further tested the J-PF5050 tree for the only available test which was PF5007 and PF5058 which came up in a negative. Found that a bit strange as it didn't have any other groups/options to narrow me down more.

    Could the more experienced members kindly elaborate more on this. I'm out of my depth here.

    Thanks.

  10. #9
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    Awans are not of Arab origin. They're an agricultural tribe that subscribed to Arab ancestry over the years, just like groups like Arains or Abbasis. Awans are probably related to Rajputs or Gakhars, if anything.

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