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Thread: Romani ("Gypsy") subclades of H-M82

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    Romani ("Gypsy") subclades of H-M82

    Based on current information, Romani subclade is H-Y17916. It formed ~4kya probably in Northern India and it's TMRCA is ~600 years. This age calculated only based on two results from Near East and Europe.

    Probably, other similar groups in Asia (Doma people and others) have their own branches.

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    United States of America India Hyderabad State Dutch East India Company Chola Empire
    most of them under H-SK1225 https://www.yfull.com/tree/H-SK1225/ with additional del event
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
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    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
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    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    most of them under H-SK1225 https://www.yfull.com/tree/H-SK1225/ with additional del event
    Who do you think these gypsi people are originally, their original tribe or group, are these subclades found among Vanjaras?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    Who do you think these gypsi people are originally, their original tribe or group, are these subclades found among Vanjaras?
    they might be mix of many castes not just Banjaras. To travel far off places without losing language & tribal customs require strong social grouping.
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a2
    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    Who do you think these gypsi people are originally, their original tribe or group, are these subclades found among Vanjaras?
    They're usually connected to the Domba/Dom people of northern South Asia as far as I'm aware.

    Something interesting from the above link:

    Many are nomadic and peripatetic groups in Uttar Pradesh are said to be of Dom origin such as the Bangali, Bhantu, Bazigar, Habura, Kanjar, and Sansi. It could also be that term Dom is generically used to describe any peripatetic nomad, as all these groups mentioned are distinct and strictly endogamous.
    It seems like the term Dom is a very broad term that refers to a variety of "low caste" Indic tribes that are not directly related to each other with their main similarities being that jobs that they perform and their geographic distribution. This link sort of distinguishes the Banjaras from the Dombas, but says that they're very similar and are grouped together.

    I'm not sure if the term Dom or any of its cognates have common usage in any parts of the Indian Subcontinent, but if they don't, the reason is probably because they're relatively common there and due to more frequent contact with them, the non-Dom locals began to eventually distinguish them by their specific tribe (Kanjar, Sansi, etc.) instead of using the more generic term Dom. Due to them being relatively less in common in Pashtunistan, West Asia, and Europe; the more generic terms Lam, Dom, Domari, Romani, Roma, etc. are used over there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    They're usually connected to the Domba/Dom people of northern South Asia as far as I'm aware.

    Something interesting from the above link:



    It seems like the term Dom is a very broad term that refers to a variety of "low caste" Indic tribes that are not directly related to each other with their main similarities being that jobs that they perform and their geographic distribution. This link sort of distinguishes the Banjaras from the Dombas, but says that they're very similar and are grouped together.

    I'm not sure if the term Dom or any of its cognates have common usage in any parts of the Indian Subcontinent, but if they don't, the reason is probably because they're relatively common there and due to more frequent contact with them, the non-Dom locals began to eventually distinguish them by their specific tribe (Kanjar, Sansi, etc.) instead of using the more generic term Dom. Due to them being relatively less in common in Pashtunistan, West Asia, and Europe; the more generic terms Lam, Dom, Domari, Romani, Roma, etc. are used over there.
    Never heard of a Dom in Punjab, Kanjar are basically into entertainment and prostitution while Sansi are considered criminals.
    Last edited by Jatt1; 03-03-2019 at 06:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    They're usually connected to the Domba/Dom people of northern South Asia as far as I'm aware.

    Something interesting from the above link:



    It seems like the term Dom is a very broad term that refers to a variety of "low caste" Indic tribes that are not directly related to each other with their main similarities being that jobs that they perform and their geographic distribution. This link sort of distinguishes the Banjaras from the Dombas, but says that they're very similar and are grouped together.

    I'm not sure if the term Dom or any of its cognates have common usage in any parts of the Indian Subcontinent, but if they don't, the reason is probably because they're relatively common there and due to more frequent contact with them, the non-Dom locals began to eventually distinguish them by their specific tribe (Kanjar, Sansi, etc.) instead of using the more generic term Dom. Due to them being relatively less in common in Pashtunistan, West Asia, and Europe; the more generic terms Lam, Dom, Domari, Romani, Roma, etc. are used over there.
    Things are not clear. These are just estimates from some anthropologists
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a2
    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Dom is also selfname of Gypsy people of Azerbaijan and other Western Asian regions.

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    I guess that new YFull entries from Scotland and Switzerland belong to people of distant Romani background?

    I thought that their H clades are less diverse, though SK1255 isn't that old either as it is estimated to be 6400 ybp.
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902>Y3 226>YP5224
    N1c-L1026>CTS10760>VL29>Z4908>L550>L1025>M2783>Z17902> L591>Y5582
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>YP1019>YP1020*
    R1b-P312>U152>L2>DF103

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    If the European H1 samples under SK1225 are all of Romani descent then Romani H1 seems to be quite diverse.

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