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Thread: Inviting All Y Haplogropu H to Participate

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul333 View Post
    As you will probably be aware I am new to genetics and I am learning or trying to. The reason I am associating my Y H2 Haplogroup with coming from Europe is the Landbridge before Britain was cut off,and the evidence from my Autosomal genetic results,indicating 100% European, and 100% British, and some confirmed raw data indications that link my Y Dna to Finland/Sweden and Bearing sea areas of Russia. As Central Europe would of spread quite wide it would not be too difficult for the same 'Western Mesolithic Europeans' or Central Europeans such as those from Derensteig, Herxheim, Goseck etc, to of travelled further West in Europe across the Land bridge around the same period ie 7000 BC, and the closest ancient Y H2 to Britain, is these people that are possibly the most obvious answer, untill the SNPs are identified and localised.

    The one thing I have noticed regarding FTDNA Y-H project, is the differences of the Y H2 SNP references, many are different to my raw Data positive SNPs.

    The P-96, members grouped all have the low STR markers for DYS385 at 12-13, as I also have. The Armenian has lower markers of 11-11, and the Turkey entry under the same is unconfirmed at F-M89 with 9-11. ( I assume the unkown and American listings in the P-96 grouping on FtDNA Y H2 are of European Descent, if so this would be a further connection that may be revelant to an origin. )

    There definitely seems to be at least two separate groups within Y H2, that evolved very differently. One with a Early European background, and one with an Asian/Indian background orientation.
    Received my 23 & Me, results yesterday, and I was very suprised to find that the raw data references above regarding, the area, indicating 'Finnish', 'Swedish' ( possibly confirming the Scandinavian element ) are supported, and confirmed, by very recent ancestor reports, showing my Great + Grandparents, were born in these area's, within the last five or six generations or so.
    Last edited by Paul333; 09-19-2018 at 11:41 AM.

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  3. #82
    Hi Paul,
    Apologies for the delay. I'm utterly confused by it all and believe that there will be a re-classifying of the group at some stage. On my father's Paternal Grandmother was a water gypsy so this confuses me even further. My surname is Critchley but I think the guy in America showing up on the reports has the surname Critchlow? My family come from the south west and we can't date our family back to Lancashire or Staffordshire where the surname seems to originate. Might have been a non paternity event or something?

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  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critchmeister78 View Post
    Hi Paul,
    Apologies for the delay. I'm utterly confused by it all and believe that there will be a re-classifying of the group at some stage. On my father's Paternal Grandmother was a water gypsy so this confuses me even further. My surname is Critchley but I think the guy in America showing up on the reports has the surname Critchlow? My family come from the south west and we can't date our family back to Lancashire or Staffordshire where the surname seems to originate. Might have been a non paternity event or something?
    Hi Critchmeister78,
    I think our Haplogroup is confusing everybody, with DNA I think surnames will not be so important, as they only came generally from the post Norman period and went through many changes, and locational names are hard to pin down as they only reflect a locality, and there would be hundreds of similar names evolving over time, and completely unconnected. Your dads paternal Grandmother being a water gypsy, only meant living on the water, ie houseboat or other, and there were certianly a lot doing this as water was a main method of transporting goods, even before most of the canals were constructed in the industrial era, including those in Lancashire and Staffordshire areas. The parish records only really began in the 1580's etc, and from the 1700s there were large movements of people throughout the country, including many people from and to the southwest.

    I think the American Critchlow and your Critchley could be just co-incidence, but having the same first elements, and the same, Y Haplogroup seems an obvious link of connection, although for now unproven,and unknown,and it could even be hundreds of years ago.

    Since I began looking into DNA, surnames are becoming to me now less important. I have found that in the area I trace back to around late 1680s early 1700s, people recorded with my surname, and derivatives of it from that same area, have recorded different Y Haplogroup to mine, so I also have to consider a NPE, unless our haplogroup turns up there, although I have now found out that the anciently recorded male line died out, around the 1680 period. So I am confused as well ..lol

    Its been quite on here for a while, but I have today down loaded my Raw Data from 23 & Me, and reading through their ancestry report description of Y H2 P96, they do say " today men carrying H P96 are mostly found in Europe", although it has been identified as far away as Kuwait". There is a problem here for me, as it cannot develop in two places, one anciently in Europe, and the other in the Indian sphere, travelling later to Europe ?. I think it may have to be changed as others also believe, and think, and it certainly seems there are two separate Y H2- P96 group origins confusingly. One early reference indicates a very early migration into Europe,that can only be Early European Hunter Gatherer, and a much later migration associated with the arrival of the first Early European Farmers ???, both groups are stated as Y H2-P96.

    I think I am now Y H2a1, due to having a positive SNP for M9313, as Picto22 stated. ( I think he also tested his results further and it confirmed that having the positive SNP M9313 identifies the subclade Y H2a1 ). Y H2a1 would be a new subclade that seems to be the earlier and an older version of Y H2. The only other information regarding Y H2 people and deeper subclades are the Y H2 personal entries on the Y H, FTDNA site, many are recording H2c, or b etc, so wether this may be relevant who knows ...
    Last edited by Paul333; 10-12-2018 at 07:12 PM.

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  7. #84
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    double post.
    Last edited by Paul333; 10-11-2018 at 09:54 PM. Reason: double post

  8. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul333 View Post
    Regarding the seemingly differences in Y H2 P-96, from Y H1 & YH3, ie European v Asian. ( Y H1 & Y H3, were not found anciently in Europe ).
    Not quite true, we have a lonesome H1b1 in Neolithic Hungary: Sample name I1903.
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

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  10. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    Not quite true, we have a lonesome H1b1 in Neolithic Hungary: Sample name I1903.
    That sample has also been called as H2, which is much more likely.

  11. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by morganman3 View Post
    That sample has also been called as H2, which is much more likely.
    Do you have a source on that? It seemed to be a fairly decent coverage sample so I wouldn't expect the authors to miscall it, especially when there were other H2's in the same publication.
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

  12. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    Do you have a source on that? It seemed to be a fairly decent coverage sample so I wouldn't expect the authors to miscall it, especially when there were other H2's in the same publication.
    https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...ixture9_SI.pdf

    BAL3.png

    As far as I know, H1b has only been found in one sample, if we are going by current ISOGG. The H tree will likely undergo further change in the future, as there still seem to be some inconsistencies.
    Last edited by morganman3; 01-28-2019 at 03:48 AM. Reason: spelling

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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by morganman3 View Post
    https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...ixture9_SI.pdf

    BAL3.png

    As far as I know, H1b has only been found in one sample, if we are going by current ISOGG. The H tree will likely undergo further change in the future, as there still seem to be some inconsistencies.
    Another problem is that the 2019 ISOGG H Tree, and the 'SNP Index' actually both identify, and confirm the first reference of the SNP Z14050 shown for I1903/BAL3: mentioned above, as positive for H1a2a, rather than H1b,or H1b1, more inconsistency ?.
    Last edited by Paul333; 01-28-2019 at 03:18 PM.

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  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul333 View Post
    Another problem is that the The 'SNP Index' actually identifys, and confirms the first reference of the SNP Z14050 for I1903/BAL3: above, as positive for H1a2a, rather than H1b, another inconsistency ?.
    It seems they are going by ISOGG 2015 where Z14050 was for H1b1
    https://isogg.org/tree/2015/ISOGG_HapgrpH15.html

    An up to date paper outlining haplogroup H would be nice, as there is still a lot of confusion within the tree. The fact that the current H1b (B108) has only ever been discovered once in a sample from Myanmar raises a lot of questions.

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