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Thread: Bell Beaker R1b-L21

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    Not really, but we don't know yet. I would say Z290 is particularly important. Z290 is nearly as old P312 and is the ancestor to L21. Z290 should have arisen close to where other P312 people were.
    So possibly there are remaining P312* people who might be z290 if they test ? Maybe some who are still P312* despite testing for everything else

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  3. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    So possibly there are remaining P312* people who might be z290 if they test ? Maybe some who are still P312* despite testing for everything else
    They could also be Z4161 (Z290's "brother") -- the DF19* block of DF19/S232, Z4161 and Z8192 was very recently split: a guy with a Czech MDKA showed up on FTDNA who is Z4161 but DF19-
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  5. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    They could also be Z4161 (Z290's "brother") -- the DF19* block of DF19/S232, Z4161 and Z8192 was very recently split: a guy with a Czech MDKA showed up on FTDNA who is Z4161 but DF19-
    Understandably most people get excited when a new downstream marker is discovered. I get excited when a new upstream marker is found. You have now demonstrated the third upstream discovery that I have learned about in the last few weeks. Mikewww informed me there is a Z290* cluster, there is a DF27 cluster that is neither ZZ12 or Z196, and now this one.

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  7. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    So possibly there are remaining P312* people who might be z290 if they test ? Maybe some who are still P312* despite testing for everything else
    As Webb pointed out, there is a group which appears to be Z290+ L21-. One of my wife's relatives is in this group.

    I believe there is only one example on Alex W's P312 BigTree who remains P312*, unless that has recently changed. As I recollect, he has a French surname. So there may be some more out there, but after many thousands of P312 results, they are likely to be extremely scarce. Of course P312* doesn't mean he doesn't have any SNPs below P312. It just means that whatever they are, no other person in the FTDNA system who has done the Big Y shares any of them.

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  9. #575
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    What is the latest on L21x DF13 people?

  10. #576
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    Am I right in understanding that the "Companion" is R-L21 and not DF13? If yes, then DF13 is a mystery yet?

  11. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Than_man View Post
    Am I right in understanding that the "Companion" is R-L21 and not DF13? If yes, then DF13 is a mystery yet?
    The Companion is L21, but DF13 is not a big mystery. At least eight of Olalde et al's British Kurgan Bell Beaker samples were DF13+.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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  13. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    The Companion is L21, but DF13 is not a big mystery. At least eight of Olalde et al's British Kurgan Bell Beaker samples were DF13+.
    OK, thanks Richard, that's fine about the 8 British Bell Beaker men ! Yet, the Amesbury Archer and the Companion have not been confirmed as DF13+?

  14. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Than_man View Post
    OK, thanks Richard, that's fine about the 8 British Bell Beaker men ! Yet, the Amesbury Archer and the Companion have not been confirmed as DF13+?
    No. They weren't able to get dna from the Archer. They only got as far as L21 with the Companion, but since there is good reason to believe he is the Archer's son, one can reasonably infer that the Archer was L21+, too.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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