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Thread: Origin and genetics of Chitpavan Brahmins?

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    Origin and genetics of Chitpavan Brahmins?

    The Chitpavan Brahmins are a Brahmin community of the Konkan region of the Indian State of Maharasthra. The community had historically been very important to local Maharasthrian politics, and Indian politics as a whole, as it provided the Peshwas, i.e. the Prime ministers of the Maratha Empire that was the most dominant state in the subcontinent in the pre-colonial period and had come to rule most of the region. Despite even composing such an important community as a whole, they were still considered lower than the Deshastha Brahmins, i.e. the Brahmins of the interior Maharathra region, as opposed to Chitpavans who were a Konkanastha community meaning from the coastal Konkan region.

    Konkan region of Maharasthra/Goa/Karnataka



    What I find interesting about the community however, is the rather light features of the community, which is atypical for Maharasthra as a whole (as the region is in Southwestern India). The community is said to have a substantial amount of fair-skinned individuals (which isn't really that unusual for a Brahmin community), but they also apparently possess 10-15% pure light eyes (grey/green/blue) as well as a lot of hazel (mixed) eyed individuals as well. Although I can't find the Asiatic Society article that I had seen this before, I have found these sources, the first of which of sites the Asiatic Society of Bengal as well but are amateurish articles.

    It would be interesting to see any genetic samples of an individual from such community, and get an idea of their origins.


    http://www.academia.edu/9188597/CHIT...IN_AND_HISTORY
    http://www.kokanastha.com/research/weekly01.htm
    Last edited by Kulin; 06-05-2017 at 04:05 AM.

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    India India Maratha Empire
    I am that "so called superior considered" Shukla Madhyandin Yajurvedi Brahman.
    It should be noted that in present day India, Koknasthas are considered atleast on-par with Deshasthas.

    But even during Peshwa(Chitpavan) rule of Maratha empire, largest money sums were given to Deshasthas.

    The rumor regarding their origin is that they are a mixed caste, with some few male deshasthas migrated into the Kokan are following Shivaji's troops.
    They married non Brahman castes.
    This explains why they have light skin (or sometimes african) features, but , yet, are considered a Brahman caste.

    Shivaji built lot of forts around the sea and coastal areas to guard any invasion by sea. However, there were no Brahmans who were willing to go to the costal regions
    A few agreed (potentially disadvantaged ones), moving across ranges would have been difficult in those times, so it does make sense that they would have married
    locals who are a mixed population given their proximity to trading routes right from italy, to south africa, to Habsha(Ethopia) to arabia.

    https://images.jdmagicbox.com/events...0901152035.jpg
    to
    https://c.saavncdn.com/artists/Varsha_Usgaonkar.jpg
    to
    https://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/M...14,317_AL_.jpg

    lot of difference.


    FWIW I have a frnd , who I have pushed into doing 23andMe tests, lets see the outcome.
    Last edited by neji; 05-15-2018 at 10:09 PM.
    sakra devanam indra |

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    The one with blue eyes still looks indic and has indic facial features .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smanj1234 View Post
    The one with blue eyes still looks indic and has indic facial features .
    You mean the 2nd lady? She might be wearing contact lens.
    Last edited by laltota; 06-14-2021 at 12:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laltota View Post
    You mean the 2nd lady? She might be wearing contact lens.
    I guess the colored eyes are found all across India at varying frequencies. I think they are very rare but still more common than lighter hair.

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    Yeah her features look typical indic I can tell you that confidently I am not sure she may be wearing contacts but many naturally have light eyes. Genetically they are the same as other south indian brahmins and their facial features and structure look average Indic though their eye colour is a little atypical even their eyes shape and size is standard Indic and some are pale but the vast majority are average .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    What I find interesting about the community however, is the rather light features of the community, which is atypical for Maharasthra as a whole (as the region is in Southwestern India). The community is said to have a substantial amount of fair-skinned individuals (which isn't really that unusual for a Brahmin community), but they also apparently possess 10-15% pure light eyes (grey/green/blue) as well as a lot of hazel (mixed) eyed individuals as well. Although I can't find the Asiatic Society article that I had seen this before, I have found these sources, the first of which of sites the Asiatic Society of Bengal as well but are amateurish articles.

    It would be interesting to see any genetic samples of an individual from such community, and get an idea of their origins.


    http://www.academia.edu/9188597/CHIT...IN_AND_HISTORY
    http://www.kokanastha.com/research/weekly01.htm
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ancestry/page2
    The vast majority of them are Indian genetically. There are a few videos posted in the thread by me(which I linked above). I won't comment subjectively on phenotype, but it's quite obvious what the vast majority look like(not just from videos but irl as well). Really cool culture though (which is why I shared the videos).

    Objectively, yes they are more light featured than Indians but really not by that much. You can find outliers in any community. I'm sure you'll find Iranian looking non-Brahmin South Indians, but that's not saying much.

    http://imgur.com/a/pOg7CT3

    http://imgur.com/a/8bVg3Xu


    Objectively according to Guha they have less than 10 percent non-brown eyes. Only 3 percent had reddish-brown or light brown hair and less than 5 percent have skin lighter than light brown on their foreheads.

    What's the reason for their higher occurence of light skin, light eyes etc? Simple. Endogamy. They selected for those traits.
    Last edited by Azbuzz; 06-14-2021 at 09:52 PM.
    "

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  14. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    The Chitpavan Brahmins are a Brahmin community of the Konkan region of the Indian State of Maharasthra. The community had historically been very important to local Maharasthrian politics, and Indian politics as a whole, as it provided the Peshwas, i.e. the Prime ministers of the Maratha Empire that was the most dominant state in the subcontinent in the pre-colonial period and had come to rule most of the region. Despite even composing such an important community as a whole, they were still considered lower than the Deshastha Brahmins, i.e. the Brahmins of the interior Maharathra region, as opposed to Chitpavans who were a Konkanastha community meaning from the coastal Konkan region.

    Konkan region of Maharasthra/Goa/Karnataka



    What I find interesting about the community however, is the rather light features of the community, which is atypical for Maharasthra as a whole (as the region is in Southwestern India). The community is said to have a substantial amount of fair-skinned individuals (which isn't really that unusual for a Brahmin community), but they also apparently possess 10-15% pure light eyes (grey/green/blue) as well as a lot of hazel (mixed) eyed individuals as well. Although I can't find the Asiatic Society article that I had seen this before, I have found these sources, the first of which of sites the Asiatic Society of Bengal as well but are amateurish articles.

    It would be interesting to see any genetic samples of an individual from such community, and get an idea of their origins.


    http://www.academia.edu/9188597/CHIT...IN_AND_HISTORY
    http://www.kokanastha.com/research/weekly01.htm
    I'm a descendant by marriage of the Banda Nawabs, and hence Baji Rao I. For the most part I match a lot of Deshastha Brahmins on my Gedmatch. Only a few Chitpavan and a couple of Bumihar Brahmin. Though I don't know how much Brahmin blood the Banda Nawabs Had. I'll take a look again and see if I'm not mistaken.
    Some sources I found also give Peshwas as being Deshashta Brahmin. I think we might also be skewed towards Deshasta because the Banda Nawabs may have had some connection with the Jhansi state who were Deshastas. It would also explain the Bumihars because I doubt Baji Rao was related to any Bumihars (Even though Maharajas of Benaras were Bumihar and I think the Bumihars we match are connected to that family).

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