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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Confused about k1a1b1a

    My maternal line hits a brick wall six generations back with a woman born circa 1834 in Tennessee, but I have no Ashkenazi ancestry or Jewish ancestors as far as I can tell.

    Apparently k1a1b1a descend from pre-historic European women whose descendants married Jewish men from the Levant as they migrated into Europe, founding the Ashkenazi community. As a non-Jewish k1a1b1a myself, does this mean an ancient maternal ancestor of mine was a European woman with ostensibly European descendants, making me a distant 'cousin' of the Ashkenazim who seem to be overwhelmingly k1a1b1a, or does this specific mutation mean a more recent maternal ancestor was an Ashkenazi woman? In other words, is K an ancient European haplogroup and k1a1b1a a more recent Ashkenazi haplotype? What are the odds of overlapping?

    From what I can tell, k1a1b1a is very rare in non-Ashkenazim, but it does happen. Am I just an exception to the rule? Is it a coincidence that I share a haplotype with a major Jewish subclade? What do the specific mutations in my K-lineage mean, exactly? I realize the jury is still out on this, and that Behar, Costa, et. al. are at odds with their conclusions (European origin vs. Levantine origin), but I'd appreciate any light that can be shed for curiosity's sake.
    Last edited by raschau; 06-08-2017 at 11:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    Well both Costa and Behar date the age of K1a1b1a to 4,000 to 5,000 years. That's older than Judaism. Therefore, the first Jewish K1a1b1a was an "assimilated" non-Jewish European woman, and there could be some K1a1b1a lines which were never Jewish.

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  4. #3
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    To what threshold have you tested? If you match all and only Ashkenazi people with no mutations with a full mitochondrial sequencing, I'd say it's somewhat more likely you have an Ashkenazi ancestor who converted somewhere along the line. If you have no or few exact matches, though, it's most probable you share only an ancient ancestor.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJL View Post
    To what threshold have you tested? If you match all and only Ashkenazi people with no mutations with a full mitochondrial sequencing, I'd say it's somewhat more likely you have an Ashkenazi ancestor who converted somewhere along the line. If you have no or few exact matches, though, it's most probable you share only an ancient ancestor.
    Looks like it may be an ancient ancestor; I match more non-Ashkenazim than Ashkenazim with a mtFull test:

    mtDNA - Ancestral Origins
    HVR1 and HVR2 Matches

    Poland 90/4064
    Ashkenazi (18), Galicia (1), Prussia (2)

    Russian Federation 63/2695
    Ashkenazi (11)

    Ukraine 59/1746
    Ashkanazi (Chausey) (1), Ashkenazi (22)

    Germany 52/11462
    Ashkenazi (9)

    Lithuania 43/977
    Ashkenazi (14)

    Hungary 30/1013
    Ashkenazi (6)

    Romania 29/557
    Ashkenazi (9)

    Belarus 28/613
    Ashkenazi (5)

    Austria 20/970
    Ashkenazi (3), Bohemia (1)

    mtDNA - Haplogroup Origins
    HVR1, HVR2, and Coding Region Matches
    Genetic Distance-1

    Poland 34
    Ashkenazi (4)

    Russian Federation 24
    Ashkenazi (2)

    Ukraine 20
    Ashkenazi (5)

    Lithuania 18
    Ashkenazi (8)

    Germany 17
    Ashkenazi (6)
    English, Scottish, German, Croatian (Dalmatian). Peripheral: Irish, Swiss, French Huguenot, Dutch.

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